How would you feel about this? My dd's martial arts school is asking...

[Greta]

the students to collect $5 (minimum) pledges for a board-breaking event and demonstration. They are forming a student association, whose purpose is to raise money for tournament entry fees, uniforms, sparring equipment, etc. So the kids will come up with a new challenging breaking routine that they want to do; friends, family, and neighbors will pledge $5 to support it; the school will get a lot of attention from this big event, which will be held out in the parking lot of the shopping center where the school is located.

 

So, if someone came to you and asked for such a pledge, would you think, sure this is a great way to help some kids reach their goals, and focus on something positive and beneficial ?

 

Or would you think are you kidding me, you're asking me for money to support a for-profit business and/or you're asking me to help you pay for things that are YOUR (parent's) financial responsibility ?

 

Or, other reactions?

 

My concern is that I've never been asked for money like this before - it's always been for a non-profit such as Scouts or a public school or something. Now technically this student association is not a business, but I'm thinking that's an awfully fuzzy gray area, since it's a student association for students of one particular for-profit martial arts school. Plus, I'm just not sure that anyone else should feel obligated to pay for my daughter's tournament entry fees and uniforms. These things ARE ridiculously expensive, and they are sometimes a burden to us. But that's our choice, right? We are not so bad off that I feel we need to be receiving charity. We need to be giving more to charities! I'm uncomfortable with this. But everyone else at the school seems to think it's great. :confused: So am I overreacting?

[4kids4me]

This is our first year in rep hockey and we have to fundraise. It's the most ridiculous concept: I choose to put my kid in a sport that costs a lot, then I ask the community and friends to help pay for it. Really? It's embarrassing!

 

It also becomes just a money exchange...I ask friends to come to my kids' fundraiser, whatever it is, then I'm asked to go to theirs...so they give me $20 then I give them $20. Huh? :confused::confused::confused: Just let me pay my own way!!!

[Pretty in Pink]

I would be uncomfortable with that, too, but I've had a similar experience before (with gymnastics). We were not allowed to opt out of the booster club. Participation in their fundraisers was mandatory. I thought it was ridiculous -- I mean, I don't sign my children up for activities that we cannot afford to pay for. I would have gladly paid my child's way, but that was not an option. :001_huh:

[LidiyaDawn]

It doesn't bother me ~ if someone approaches me for a pledge/etc and I have the money to support them, then I do it. If I can't afford it, then I just wish them good luck with it and go about my day. :)

[Greta]

This is our first year in rep hockey and we have to fundraise. It's the most ridiculous concept: I choose to put my kid in a sport that costs a lot, then I ask the community and friends to help pay for it. Really? It's embarrassing!

 

It also becomes just a money exchange...I ask friends to come to my kids' fundraiser, whatever it is, then I'm asked to go to theirs...so they give me $20 then I give them $20. Huh? :confused::confused::confused: Just let me pay my own way!!!

 

I would be uncomfortable with that, too, but I've had a similar experience before (with gymnastics). We were not allowed to opt out of the booster club. Participation in their fundraisers was mandatory. I thought it was ridiculous -- I mean, I don't sign my children up for activities that we cannot afford to pay for. I would have gladly paid my child's way, but that was not an option. :001_huh:

 

Well, I'm very glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks this is strange. But I'm very disappointed to hear that it's common practice! This is just silly! And *mandatory*? Oh, if they make it mandatory, that may end up being the straw that broke the camel's back. We're not entirely happy with this school as it is. Maybe I'd better formulate my protest now before they get the brilliant idea of making it mandatory!!!

[Greta]

It doesn't bother me ~ if someone approaches me for a pledge/etc and I have the money to support them, then I do it. If I can't afford it, then I just wish them good luck with it and go about my day. :)

 

You are very kind and gracious. More so than myself, obviously! :lol:

[2cents]

My girls were in a gymnastics/dance school that did this sort of thing. It was really stressful on the kids who were made to feel that they wouldn't get good spots on the shows unless they sold sold sold. One of the last times we went, I watched the owner drill a student as to when she would be selling and how important it was and deadlines etc. It was very uncomfortable. She told me I had to have dh sell tickets too. Even though we weren't even in the show and I had made it clear we didn't want to be in it! I told her I had no intention of asking him to sell tickets as his job is to work for his company and not for HER. Needless to say that ended that extracurricular activity (which was a blessing).

[LG Gone Wild]

I think it is an additional burden on the family; do all the durn training, events, AND fundraise? I wouldn't be upset but I would say no. Boys Scouts is a lot like this. We do sell popcorn but usually we just pay our own way (we buy the tickets for whatever fundraiser).

[Greta]

My girls were in a gymnastics/dance school that did this sort of thing. It was really stressful on the kids who were made to feel that they wouldn't get good spots on the shows unless they sold sold sold. One of the last times we went, I watched the owner drill a student as to when she would be selling and how important it was and deadlines etc. It was very uncomfortable. She told me I had to have dh sell tickets too. Even though we weren't even in the show and I had made it clear we didn't want to be in it! I told her I had no intention of asking him to sell tickets as his job is to work for his company and not for HER. Needless to say that ended that extracurricular activity (which was a blessing).

 

Whoa, that is crazy! I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Thanks for sharing your experience. Makes me feel that I should take a stand now before it gets out of control.

[Greta]

I think it is an additional burden on the family; do all the durn training, events, AND fundraise?

 

Yes, they seem to have this idea that the dojang (or however you spell it) is a community rather than a business, and that all us parents should want to help out at every opportunity.

[NanceXToo]

It doesn't bother me ~ if someone approaches me for a pledge/etc and I have the money to support them, then I do it. If I can't afford it, then I just wish them good luck with it and go about my day. :)

 

:iagree:

 

It wouldn't bother me to be asked, and I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with letting my daughter ask if she were a student who had to fundraise for something like this.

[JFSinIL]

My dd's dojang has the kids get sponsors when the school participates in walk/runs or kick-a-thons...but it is to raise money for cancer research - not to benefit the dojang/students (beyond obvious publicity dojang gets from participating.)

[amey311]

We had similar fundraisers for travel hockey. We bought out of them by asking what was the minimum obligation per family and then we wrote a check. We weren't interested in selling chocolate bars, or tickets to casino nights or anything else.

[Impish]

My dd's dojang has the kids get sponsors when the school participates in walk/runs or kick-a-thons...but it is to raise money for cancer research - not to benefit the dojang/students (beyond obvious publicity dojang gets from participating.)

See, that I'd support, happily.

 

Raise money for a for profit organization? Thanks, but no. I wouldn't let my kids sell for the ps when they went either.

[Truscifi]

Yes, they seem to have this idea that the dojang (or however you spell it) is a community rather than a business, and that all us parents should want to help out at every opportunity.

 

Our dojo is more like a community - but the only things we have ever been asked to help out with were for charities (Toys for Tots, Angel Tree, etc) or to help a specific family going through a difficult time, like when one of the students was diagnosed with a rare cancer we all held a fundraiser to help pay for the family to stay in a motel near the hospital where he was being treated until they could get into the Ronald McDonald House. I can't imagine our sensei asking students to fundraise to pay for tournament fees. :001_huh:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I would think:

 

are you kidding me, you're asking me for money to support a for-profit business and/or you're asking me to help you pay for things that are YOUR (parent's) financial responsibility.

[katilac]

Honestly, I'm not too keen on fundraising even when it's for a group designated as non-profit, such as Boy Scouts. I don't quite 'get' why I should help pay for your kids to go to camp, just because it's Boy Scout camp, y'know? When my kids go to camp, I write a check.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Honestly, I'm not too keen on fundraising even when it's for a group designated as non-profit, such as Boy Scouts. I don't quite 'get' why I should help pay for your kids to go to camp, just because it's Boy Scout camp, y'know? When my kids go to camp, I write a check.

 

:iagree:

[In the Rain]

 

Or would you think are you kidding me, you're asking me for money to support a for-profit business and/or you're asking me to help you pay for things that are YOUR (parent's) financial responsibility ?

 

 

 

I would be thinking something along these lines, but not quite so harshly.

[eternalknot]

I'm generally annoyed by fundraisers, but if the child is out there soliciting then I will always support him or her. I don't participate in fundraisers in which their parents are asking for my help, are passing around or have posted a sign-up sheet at work, or email me. I don't necessarily agree with fundraisers, but I think there is inherent value to children who actively participate in them (the least of which is seeing that their efforts are recognized by society).

 

The kids are asking for pledges in support of an act they themselves will be doing. Sure it's going to a for-profit school, but their active participation in the fundraiser is key for me. It's not like the school is selling chocolate bars; the fundraiser is relevant to the cause and requires the active participation of the kids. I like that. I also like that collectively they'll come up with a new breaking routine. Life skills.

 

Unless the school is hosting a tournament, then the fact that it is for-profit bears little impact on my opinion; tournaments are optional, and they cost money. Some people who might be on full- or partial-scholarships to the school may need assistance with entry fees. Some students may need specific equipment to better train. Some schools will attract more or more serious team members through tournament participation (which might keep tuition from increasing, might give my child better opportunities to grow as a martial artist, etc.) and perhaps even corporate sponsorship that will later alleviate the student-level fundraising. I think tournaments are a valid reason for a fundraiser. They're extras, they take extra money, and getting the kids involved in earning that extra money is okay with me. And in this instance, "involved" means not only soliciting pledges but also doing the work (breaking boards). Excellent, IMO.

 

I had to study fundraising and marketing as part of my first bachelor's degree. Desite my feelings about them, I have chaired numerous fundraising committees over the years. I'm very empathetic to how fundraisers are presented and received. For that reason, I have always offered a buy-out option for those who would rather write a check than bother with the fundraiser. And I've never required anyone participate, but different groups can sometimes make one feel pressured to - is the dojo community like that? I hope not! In your shoes I'd likely write a check covering the support of each person in my student's immediate family (me, their dad, their sibling).

 

I don't think you're over-reacting. I think your sensitive to feelings of others, especially during this time when so many are needing to cut-back on things. That's a good thing :)

[Julie Smith]

I don't like fund raisers. My boys are on a running team that has very optional races. These are just local races that usually Raise money for XYZ cause. For those I don't even have them fund raise.

 

I consider it strange to say to people. " Please give money to XYZ charity because we choose to run in a race." for those events I pay the entry fee, plus donate a certain amount to the organization putting it on as a thank you. Because I know the entry fees don't cover the race.

 

I never give money to anyone who asks for it as part of a fundraiser.

 

I prefer to donate money based on criteria different then, "someone we know has a kid who is doing XYZ, so let's give money to abc. "

[Greta]

Thank you all so much for your replies. I appreciate every single one, even though some are on opposite ends of the spectrum. :001_smile: That helps me, because I wanted to know how the people we would be approaching might feel about it . . . and now I know I can expect a variety of responses. (IF we were to do this, that is.)

 

We do sell Girl Scout cookies every year, and I feel differently about that because 1) it is a non-profit organization and 2) much of what girls do in scouting is service oriented. Some of the money we raise gets given to charities that the girls believe in. Every badge they earn has a community service project requirement. There is financial aid available for girls who need it. And there are programs whereby badges and uniforms can be donated to troops in impoverished areas. So while scouting definitely does involve things, like camp, that are fun for the kids, it isn't ALL about "me, me, me".

 

But this martial arts thing seems more selfish. I would feel much better about it if it were being set up to assist the kids at the school who need it the most. But there was no mention of it being need-based, and if the cars they drive and the clothes they wear are any indication, most of the parents at this school don't need any help at all (including us, though my car is a junker and my clothes come from the discount stores not the designer stores! :lol: ) though a few probably would benefit from some help.

 

Thank you also so much for this thoughtful response, Eternalknot. You've brought out several points here that I hadn't considered, and you've given me much food for thought.

 

I'm generally annoyed by fundraisers, but if the child is out there soliciting then I will always support him or her. I don't participate in fundraisers in which their parents are asking for my help, are passing around or have posted a sign-up sheet at work, or email me. I don't necessarily agree with fundraisers, but I think there is inherent value to children who actively participate in them (the least of which is seeing that their efforts are recognized by society).

 

The kids are asking for pledges in support of an act they themselves will be doing. Sure it's going to a for-profit school, but their active participation in the fundraiser is key for me. It's not like the school is selling chocolate bars; the fundraiser is relevant to the cause and requires the active participation of the kids. I like that. I also like that collectively they'll come up with a new breaking routine. Life skills.

 

Unless the school is hosting a tournament, then the fact that it is for-profit bears little impact on my opinion; tournaments are optional, and they cost money. Some people who might be on full- or partial-scholarships to the school may need assistance with entry fees. Some students may need specific equipment to better train. Some schools will attract more or more serious team members through tournament participation (which might keep tuition from increasing, might give my child better opportunities to grow as a martial artist, etc.) and perhaps even corporate sponsorship that will later alleviate the student-level fundraising. I think tournaments are a valid reason for a fundraiser. They're extras, they take extra money, and getting the kids involved in earning that extra money is okay with me. And in this instance, "involved" means not only soliciting pledges but also doing the work (breaking boards). Excellent, IMO.

 

I had to study fundraising and marketing as part of my first bachelor's degree. Desite my feelings about them, I have chaired numerous fundraising committees over the years. I'm very empathetic to how fundraisers are presented and received. For that reason, I have always offered a buy-out option for those who would rather write a check than bother with the fundraiser. And I've never required anyone participate, but different groups can sometimes make one feel pressured to - is the dojo community like that? I hope not! In your shoes I'd likely write a check covering the support of each person in my student's immediate family (me, their dad, their sibling).

 

I don't think you're over-reacting. I think your sensitive to feelings of others, especially during this time when so many are needing to cut-back on things. That's a good thing :)

Edited April 25, 2011 by GretaLynne

[Ray]

Taekwondo? If it were me I would not like it- too much like panhandling, but if it mean't something tangible like rank promotion or the sensei gets to make his car payment...haha I jest.

 

You know private business are operating in a difficult environment and I doubt the Dojang qualifies as "too big to fail", and unlikely to qet a tax-payer funded bailout. So at least its an honest way to ask for $$ because they can always decline, and if it keeps the doors open or helps keep tuition rates down, maybe worth taking a hit to one's pride.

[Murphy101]

Honestly, I'm none too thrilled when it is a non-profit either.

 

Besides that, I have zero interest nor appreciation for people I am already dedicating time and funds to volunteering my child (ME!) to do more of the same outside the event we joined at the onset.

 

If I knew about this in advance, I'd take my business elsewhere.

If I didn't, I'd just refuse and say that when I asked what our obligations would be at sign up, and I ALWAYS ask, this wasn't mentioned and thus we did not and will not be adding it to our schedule.

[Greta]

Taekwondo? If it were me I would not like it- too much like panhandling, but if it mean't something tangible like rank promotion or the sensei gets to make his car payment...haha I jest.

 

Yes, that's how it feels to me.

 

 

 

You know private business are operating in a difficult environment and I doubt the Dojang qualifies as "too big to fail", and unlikely to qet a tax-payer funded bailout. So at least its an honest way to ask for $$ because they can always decline, and if it keeps the doors open or helps keep tuition rates down, maybe worth taking a hit to one's pride.

 

As far as I can see, this dojang is doing just fine. Twenty students when the current owner bought the school. Now it's up to 100 (one year later) and still growing.

[Greta]

Honestly, I'm none too thrilled when it is a non-profit either.

 

Besides that, I have zero interest nor appreciation for people I am already dedicating time and funds to volunteering my child (ME!) to do more of the same outside the event we joined at the onset.

 

If I knew about this in advance, I'd take my business elsewhere.

If I didn't, I'd just refuse and say that when I asked what our obligations would be at sign up, and I ALWAYS ask, this wasn't mentioned and thus we did not and will not be adding it to our schedule.

 

This wasn't mentioned when we signed our contract, so I consider it most definitely optional.

[Greta]

So, if you asked me to pay for your kid's sport, I'd suggest you pay for it yourself!

 

Yeah, I think this sums it all up. I just don't feel right asking other people to pay for my daughter's activities. We can afford it, so there is just no justification for this at all.

 

Thanks again to everyone who posted!

[s.z.ichigo]

The idea of fundraising for a business makes no sense to me either. Our dojang charges us directly for participating in some optional events like board breaking, and some for-fun events. They also foot the bill themselves for a LOT of things like academic achievement parties for the kids, weapons events, public demonstrations, etc. I'm happy with this arrangement, and wouldn't feel comfortable asking other people to give them more money. They already get nearly $200 a month from us, it's not as if they're volunteers!

[Guest ScoutmasterTroop333]

While most businesses should sustain themselves, I am a marketing professional by day and scoutmaster in off hours. (There are no off hours as a scoutmaster).

 

The thing I believe that makes Boy Scouts an exception to those who feel fundraising is inappropriate is the structure of scouts itself. In our troop (Troop 333 Huntersville, NC) we are a family centric organization and homeschool based troop with flexibility for those who need school options.

 

We organize and actively train scouts in fundraising events and programs so THEY can earn the money they need to pay their expenses, clothes, gear, camping trips, summer camp, merit badges, special programs.

We teach them Entrepreneurship, Salesmanship, and accounting skills so they can apply these later in life as well. It is not just fundraising for the troop.

 

Some troops keep the scout's money. We don't. We designate 80% on scout events go to the scout's personal account so they can decide how they want to spend their money. We donate a percentage to our local council, and keep a little for troop expenses (which are many).

 

This gives the scouts a sense of accomplishment and they see the real application of their efforts. They set goals (not us) and they achieve them. They are not required to participate in any fundraising but the option is available. All parents we work with see the benefits. So do the scouts.

 

I don't believe a for-profit business should employ youth to fundraise, but Boy Scouts is not for profit. Nationally there are several hundred thousand unpaid adult leaders, council members and committees at every level. There are office expenses, and costs for running scout stores. So there is a real need for income. And scouts does limit the amount of fundraising it does to try to NOT be continually raising money.

 

Unfortunately, the United Way recently cut out the scouts from getting any income in our area even though it is one of the premier children's organizations. So scouts are left having to completely raise every cent they need to operate.

 

Fundraising does not have to be a bad situation. We run concessions and have done other sales and all of it is very educational if run properly.

[Dmmetler]

Most of the parents I know here who participate in fundraisers to reduce their child's fees (cheerleading-rec, but with professional coaches who need to be paid, plus uniforms and competition fees-maybe $500/yr) have businesses that they're able to somehow run the fundraiser through-so the parent is the one buying the items, which means they're still paying their child's fees, but because they're doing so through their business, it's considered a business expense and is tax deductable. Most of the other parents (myself included) don't bother.

 

For me, one of the hidden benefits of homeschooling was NO MORE SCHOOL FUNDRAISERS-so I'm more than willing to write a check and not have to deal with it

[myfunnybunch]

I haven't read the other replies, so forgive me if I repeat.

 

Our karate school holds similar events. I don't have a problem with it. The money is meant to help students cover costs that aren't covered by the school: Uniforms, tournaments, equipment. You can cover those costs for your family, but there may be students who would like to participate in tournaments or buy equipment who are stretched enough paying the tuition. This kind of fundraising gives those families an opportunity to lower their costs without singling them out. The school is trying to do it in a way that helps the kids develop skills related to their sport, rather than selling...I don't know...cookie dough or wrapping paper. And an event like this helps the students develop a sense of community in a way that a traditional sell-stuff fundraiser wouldn't. I really enjoy seeing the ways the students in our school relate to one another *in* class after they've had a chance to participate in events together.

 

Cat

[catz]

I think this is really typical. When we are in these circumstances, we usually just cover what we'd need to fundraise. We just don't have the time or energy to do this.

 

I don't mind when kids come around asking for fundraisers, and if I can buy a plant or a candy bar to help a kid's soccer team, I do. If it's not of interest, I send them on their way.

 

Honestly, I'm not too keen on fundraising even when it's for a group designated as non-profit, such as Boy Scouts. I don't quite 'get' why I should help pay for your kids to go to camp, just because it's Boy Scout camp, y'know? When my kids go to camp, I write a check.

 

This is my line of thinking too. I wouldn't differentiate between a for profit karate place or boy scouts if it was covering kid's expenses or activities.

[Paige]

I would not be comfortable with it at all. I can't imagine either of the schools we have been in promoting something like this. I am not a fan of whatever-a-thons to raise money for anything, however, so there's my bias. It is trumped up begging, IMO. I gladly support groups who are raising money by doing something productive- wash some cars, sell some cookies or baked goods, rake leaves, mow, shovel snow, do something useful instead of breaking boards (which must be bought in the first place) or jumping ropes, or standing in the road with a bucket, or running, or rocking in a chair all day!!

[justasque]

I'm with ScoutmasterTroop333. I do think there's a difference between for-profit and non-profit activities.

 

Boy and Girl Scouts pay a participation fee and then pay fees for whatever activities they choose to do. However, there's a huge support structure that maintains the camps, helps the local groups, organizes group activities, takes care of paperwork, writes the manuals, commissions the uniforms, etc. The annual fee is around $25; the actual cost is more like $200. (This doesn't count the thousands of hours of volunteer time put in by the leaders and others.) If they charged each kid the actual cost of scouting, it would reduce the number of kids who could participate in these beneficial programs. Thus fundraisers come into play.

 

I agree, however, that there are fundraisers and there are fundraisers. Things like a car wash or pancake breakfast or wreath sale give the contributor something in return, and the kids have to actually work for the money. Perhaps that's part of the concern with a "pledge" type of fundraiser?

 

I'm also not a fan of the "sell something that folks really don't need" type; we've paid the fee rather than sell candy for soccer, for example, and I felt like a pusher when we sold Girl Scout cookies (at a cookie booth at the local grocery store) to person after person who appeared to have health issues from being overweight.

 

I also think there's a difference between reasonable activities and "I need to raise several *thousand* dollars so my group can go to Disney."

[J-rap]

...

Edited September 11, 2023 by J-rap

[Sputterduck]

I have done board breaking events for charity.

 

I would not do a board breaking event to get my friends and family to pay my fees. My fees are not charity.

 

If this was paying for fees for children from low income families, I would be all for it. What you described I would refuse to be a part of.

[Haiku]

Parents are responsible for paying for their kids' activities. Our kids do not participate in fundraisers. They are 8 and 9. It's not their responsibility to fund their activities, and it's not cool for me to bug my friends and family to help pay for my kids' activities.

 

Tara

[twoxcell]

I hate all the fundraising. My dh does not want our kids going around asking people for money, so we usually end up buying some of the raffle tickets/pledges ourselves. The money we have been asked to raise is for scholarships, which we would qualify for if we applied. For soccer we payed 60 dollars, and then were asked to sell 20 dollars worth of raffle tickets, which we ended up buying.:confused:

[Tea Time]

I haven't read the replies, but today we saw a group of martial arts students collecting money at an intersection! This is a huge intersection that has homeless people asking for money half the time and new paper sales people on Sundays. I have seen a few other groups, but I usually can't even tell what group is doing it. It just makes me angry. I am trying to drive!

[RanchGirl]

It sounds like the kids are basically asking for donations to their for profit gym. No, I don't think that is appropriate. If it were a non profit organization that did some good for the community, or if they were selling something that *might* be a benefit to the purchaser, then I would say go-ahead and participate if you want.

 

But not just asking for money to help pay for their gym program.

 

Personally, we don't participate with fundraising, we paid our own way for Cub Scouts and we continue to do so now for all the kids sports things. I have bought a few rolls of gift wrap from friends, girl scout cookies, etc. But I wouldn't donate cash to their activities and they would never ask.

[LibraryLover]

Is this for travel? It's probably to subsidize the children in the program who would not be able to participate. The range of incomes in some programs can be profound.

 

It's kind of communist, really, to subsidize those who can't afford what others can. :D They probably also share their crayons and baby wipes on the bus.

Edited May 15, 2011 by LibraryLover

[myfunnybunch]

It's kind of communist, really, to subsidize those who can't afford what others can. :D They probably also share their crayons and baby wipes on the bus.

 

:lol::lol::lol: