Do your children respect your home? Do they destroy it?

[Joanne]

My kids have each done at least one thing that had me :001_huh::confused::glare:.

 

My oldest systematically poked holes in the seating of the dining room chair where he used to sit for homeschool. (And didn't think it through that I would know it was him :lol:). He seemed "too old" for that.

 

My dd, in regular increments, "bit" chunks into the gamecude wire. (And didn't think I'd figure out it was her :lol:). SHe seemed too old for that.

 

My youngest ds wrote disrespectful words on the side of my DH's truck. He has very identifyable handwriting and spelling. ;) (He didn't think I'd know it was him. :lol:) He seemed too old for that.

 

The level of respect for property and my "time and energy" goes in cycles. When we "hit bottom", which would be like the scene in the OP, I can pretty much predict the following:

 

1) Parental units involved had ceased consistent follow up and enforcement of rules such as "no food outside of kitchen".

2) A parental unit (or 2) had been pre-occupied by depression, school, work, health issues, dying parent, severe financial strain......for a period of time. That leads to #1.

3) Multiple family members have been spending too much time on screens (computer, TV, gaming systems).

4) Parental unit's most recent "schedule" or "routine" had worn off, enforcement lifted and new one undeveloped. The early momentum of a new system had waned, apathy followed.

5) Children had become disconnected from the pain of parental frustration, from the pain of paying for things out of their own money, their own free time or their own decisions about scheduling.

6) Junk food consumption seems to be proportionally connected to mess and property disrepect.

[Elinor Everywhere]

I

Toy jail works somewhat (when you feel like enforcing it). Left out, it goes to toy jail for a week and you have to earn it coming out. This works best with something they actually like!

 

 

This reminds me when my dd was about 5, and I was frustrated that she wasn't putting any of her toys away. Some friends told me about toy jail, and in my enthusiasm (err.....something like that) I told my dd I was taking away ALL her toys. She put her hand on her waist, thrust her little hip out, and said defiantly, "While you're at it, don't forget to take away all the toys in the schoolroom!" I was floored and after I picked my jaw off the floor I burst out laughing...:lol:

[rafiki]

.

[Night Elf]

Well, honestly, first I would sit in the middle of the floor and sob. I cried in response to some of my children's behaviors in front of them a couple of times and it affected them deeply.

 

We had some issues when the kids were younger and the only way we could get the issues to stop was changing their bedtimes. Every time the children did something they weren't supposed to do, I'd make bedtime 15 minutes earlier. I remember one day my son had to go to bed an hour early. He was very upset. Of course, this wouldn't work if their rooms were filled with fun things to do and they got out of bed.

 

I don't buy the excuse that they forgot something that they are supposed to do every single day.

[Amy Jo]

This is the best thread I've seen in ages, anywhere online. Thank you for letting me see that I am not the only one with barbarians for children.

 

This feels like a support group. :grouphug:

 

:D

 

:iagree: From listening to my step-mom and mother-in-law I thought I was the ONLY one with these problems (especially my 4 yo - seems to love destruction). Thank you all for your honesty.

 

As for me - Spring is here, I have my energy back, I'm done having new tornadoes (aka kids), we are moving to a bigger place (just finishing packing) and I will have a clean house with help from all who live here, or there will be ___ to pay. The hammer is about to fall, if it's not cleaned up/cared for, I'll toss it. Food will be restricted to the kitchen (DH will be the tough one there). I'm SO done with the mess and me being the only one who cares.

 

The number of kids makes a big difference though. The more the messier. :tongue_smilie:

 

What has worked for us in the past:

 

 

• Me supervising the kids. Every moment.

• Locking cabinet for any food temptations. (Used a cheap Wal-mart combo lock.)

• High barrel-bolts on the outside doors so that DS4 could not leave the house alone (did this until he turned 4, he's doing much better now)

• Toys were I can see them (I'm torn on this one - part of me wants their toys in their room at the new place, so my living room can be cleaner. My plan right now is to SEVERLY restrict the number of toys - they'll have to be able to clean up within 10 minutes without me. I'll just have to make this fair to my oldest, who actually helps.)

• Cleaning up a little every day - or even just little things like making the bed, putting the laundry away now.

• Splitting them up, especially if I do an errand and DH is staying home, I take my 4yo. It's just easier and he is very pleasant when I'm keeping him with me.

• Not letting them out of my sight.

 

Raising Godly Tomatoes - it's a book but you can read it online. I'm making DH read it as soon as we are moved so we're on the same page.

 

Consistency is king (and my new motto). I completely understand that you are tired. Hopefully you and your DH can work something out until the first trimester is over.

[elise1mds]

I agree with you...but only with neurotypical children.

 

All bets are off when you have a child with autism in any form. And when it's your oldest and you spend 3x as much time with him as the others combined, then yes there are issues that go beyond "Did you train them properly? Were you consistent?"

 

Parents of aspies and auties wrote the book on consistency. Consistency doesn't work with all children. It works beautifully with neurotypical children (I have two NT kids). If you are consistent 99% of the time (even 90% of the time!) with NT kids, it works. If you are consistent 99.99% of the time with an autie or aspie, they will obsess, plan, and take full advantage of that 0.01%.

 

As reasonable as my neurotypical kids are, they don't live in a vacuum. Their older brother is here, too, and influences things a lot.

 

So true. So painfully, painfully true. Did I mention my DS is an Aspie?

 

DD, on the other hand, loves to clean and help me out as long as it's her idea (and she has massive separation anxiety, so anything she can do to be near me is always her idea). I don't have the same issues with her. It doesn't always seem fair to DS that she's "getting off easy," but the fact of the matter is that he pulls the stunts and she doesn't!

[MeganW]

Chores - praise does not work. A scheduled routine with expected accountability via Mom does. A child must get up, get dressed, and have their room clean. This doesn't happen by itself. It's constant accountability. Over weeks (or months) of training it DOES become habits. Consistency I think it the key.

 

We have a "Chore Captain" in our house. It rotates daily as to who the CC is. That person checks everyone else's bed, bedside table, etc. to be sure everything is done in the morning, and sends the other kids back to re-do if necessary. If it isn't done and the CC said it was, BOTH the CC and the offender get in trouble! Kiddos LOOOOVE having a clipboard that they can check off each person's chores as they inspect! (My standards are reasonable & age-appropriate - I'm not looking for military bed-making, just reasonably neat!)

 

In the beginning, they really enjoyed lording it over each other and being obnoxiously picky when they were the CC. Now, they have figured out that all chores need to be done to my satisfaction, but if they are ridiculously over-the-top picky, payback will come in the next few days. Good training for being fair to coworkers in the future!

Edited April 1, 2011 by MeganW

[Random]

When I was in the first trimester of my 4th (and final) pregnancy, stuff like this did happen. I had three other sons ages 5-1. They got away with a lot of garbage because I was sick, exhausted and depressed about being pregnant again.

 

Just for laughs, I'll share some crazy stuff my kids have done:

-Woken up in the middle of the night and taken the ice cream to their bedroom to eat it (and leave the unfinished carton on the carpet)

-Write their names on the WALL (THE FREAKIN WALL!!) with their pee

-Hidden all of my husband's expensive tools under the deck (he's a carpenter) for their own use

-Used my husband's saw in unthinkable ways

-Put dirty dishes back into the cabinet, after they had been licked clean

 

 

Hang in there, OP. I hope you start feeling better soon and can get out of bed before your kids. Until then, maybe DH can be the 'heavy' and enact some serious and harsh consequences in your place.

[MeganW]

Oooh, I like this!! I think I might try it with my girls. However, I already know what they are going to say...."Can we leave our village set up so that we can play with it in the morning???"

 

No. You can get it out at playtime in the morning. B/c if they leave out one thing, it will soon be two things! "You are welcome to leave out any toys you want me to get rid of." :)

[KrissiK]

My boys are like this, too. I don't think they are maliciously destructive, but things get wrecked. Right now, there is a nice hole of paint being chipped off the wall. I think it got started accidentally, but then it is irresistible. I think rather like picking scabs, picking glue off your fingers. Somehow, picking things is fun. We have a rule that no child is allowed out of their bedrooms until Mommy says in the morning. We trained them this way from the time they were babies, so it is a deeply ingrained habit. Same thing with food, although I found a dried up hotdog bun under a bookshelf in the bedroom yesterday. I don't have the answers. I think just keep trying to get them to clean up their messes. Hide your stuff. I don't let my kids use my stuff. Ever. And I tell them it's because they wreck everything. I don't replace toys that get wrecked. Unfortunately, because of CHristmas and birthdays they all have too much stuff to even care what's wrecked. Yeah, there are times when I'm looking forward to the last bird to fly the coop and I can paint the walls and get new couches.

[fairfarmhand]

This morning I woke to find three of the four boys laying around the living room, arguing over Netflix. There was food everywhere -- orange peels, empty bowls and glasses in the floor (empty glasses turned on their sides, up against the baseboards), cheerios and raisins strewn about the entire room and dumped out on the sofa, a half-eaten cup of applesauce overturned next to the sofa, laundry baskets turned over, books lying about, a huge tub of Legos dumped out, and blankets and pillows belonging to three of them. In addition, in the kitchen there were food and dishes everywhere -- peanut butter open on the counter, bread open, cereal out and open, butter knives (where someone had attempted to slice an orange), cookies (where the 2yo raided the cookie jar), and rice flung all over the floor (I am guessing the 2yo did that).

 

This rooms were spotless when they went to bed last night;

 

they aren't even supposed to watch television without asking, or touch the Playstation, which is necessary to view Netflix;

 

they aren't supposed to eat before we get up, nor are they to eat in the living room;

 

the 2yo is never to be taken out of his crib in the morning by anyone other than myself or dh;

 

and the list goes on.

 

And this was all between 6:15 (when dh left) and 7 (when I got up).

 

And then there is the other stuff -- drawing on the carpet with pastels (this was the 7yo and, yes, the art supplies are stored out of reach, but my 12yo takes them out all. the. time. and doesn't put them away, or takes them to his room, though he knows he isn't supposed to).

 

Trashing the bathroom every. single. night. when they go in to brush their teeth.

 

Soaking the bathroom floor every. single. time. they take a bath.

 

Completely trashing their rooms on a daily basis. Even our 12yo will just throw his school books on the floor, jam his papers under his bed or in a desk drawer instead of putting them in his notebooks, sneak drinks.snacks into his room and leave the dirty dishes. Ugh.

 

I am losing my mind. They have chores. I do make them clean up their own messes, which is exhausting in itself. I've told them not to get out of bed in the morning until I come to get them -- they don't listen. They say they forgot. They just won't stop doing this stuff over and over and over. I have tried grounding and revoking privileges. I do praise them for chores well done, as appropriate. What am I doing wrong?

 

Is this my lot in life? Is this sort of behavior tolerated in your home? How do you handle it? We didn't behave this way growing up; we knew we would get our butts whipped for stuff like this!

Here would be my ideal reaction:

 

Wake up, see mess....calmly walk over to the game system, unplug the thing and wrap the cord around it. "Sorry guys, you know this is off limits, guess a week without it will help you to remember that." Deposit gadget in closet.

 

Return to living room and retrieve toddler. Glance around and say.."well, looks like you guys already h ad breakfast so toddler and I will be having (fill in the blank with their favorite breakfast) while you guys clean up your mess. I guess you'll be glad for lunch." smile sweetly while I go make pancakes and bacon for toddler and me.

 

Later I'd have a talk with 12 yo. Tell him that you are through with the "forgetting" and mess. From now on you will be treating him exactly like he is five. You will be the only one to fix his food, you will follow him into the bathroom to make sure he doesn't drench the floor or trash it while he brushes his teeth. He will lose all privileges to anything messy since he cannot pick up after himself. After about 2 weeks of this, I'd bet he'd be ready to straighten up.

 

The other kids probably take alot of cues from the oldest. If he is scared of screwing up, they might think twice.

 

however in reality, I would turn into a screaming raving maniac.

[Geek]

Here would be my ideal reaction:

 

Wake up, see mess....calmly walk over to the game system, unplug the thing and wrap the cord around it. "Sorry guys, you know this is off limits, guess a week without it will help you to remember that." Deposit gadget in closet.

 

Return to living room and retrieve toddler. Glance around and say.."well, looks like you guys already h ad breakfast so toddler and I will be having (fill in the blank with their favorite breakfast) while you guys clean up your mess. I guess you'll be glad for lunch." smile sweetly while I go make pancakes and bacon for toddler and me.

 

Later I'd have a talk with 12 yo. Tell him that you are through with the "forgetting" and mess. From now on you will be treating him exactly like he is five. You will be the only one to fix his food, you will follow him into the bathroom to make sure he doesn't drench the floor or trash it while he brushes his teeth. He will lose all privileges to anything messy since he cannot pick up after himself. After about 2 weeks of this, I'd bet he'd be ready to straighten up.

 

The other kids probably take alot of cues from the oldest. If he is scared of screwing up, they might think twice.

 

however in reality, I would turn into a screaming raving maniac.

Oh my. I love this post. Everything about it, especially the punchline.

[Elinor Everywhere]

however in reality, I would turn into a screaming raving maniac.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[fairfarmhand]

Oh my. I love this post. Everything about it, especially the punchline.

 

 

it is absolutely the truth, especially if I were pregnant.

 

 

I am not a nice pregnant lady.

[Unicorn.]

This is the best thread I've seen in ages, anywhere online. Thank you for letting me see that I am not the only one with barbarians for children.

 

This feels like a support group. :grouphug:

 

:D

 

:iagree: I thought I had written this, except I don't have a toddler. :tongue_smilie:

[ChristusG]

it is absolutely the truth, especially if I were pregnant.

 

 

I am not a nice pregnant lady.

 

Hmmm....maybe that's what's wrong with me here lately? I just went off on the kids because they never keep the playroom clean....and they want to whine when I put new rules into play BECAUSE they will not keep the playroom clean.

 

I think I'll start telling them I'm grumpy because I'm pregnant. :D

[FriedClams]

My personal opinion of this is when kids are destructive they don't respect what they have. Likely your kids have too much - too many snacks, too much freedom, too many clothes, too many toys. I read an article years ago about how kids in the 50s had an average of 3 toys - and they cared for them and didn't lose or destroy them. Kids today have more toys than that in the car or the bathroom.

 

So, when we have attitudes and issues with taking care of things, I just reduce what we have (right after I pitch a fit). If it's left out, it's gone. Special things can be bought back. Other stuff just goes away. I also just let the kids know we have too much and we just go though it all and pare it down - clothes, shoes, toys, books, etc. Usually we can get rid of enough and get everything clean enough that the kids want it to stay that way and they aren't overwhelmed by it. After that - it's out it's gone. Right now I am deal with socks on the floor. Minor, I know, but annoying. For every sock I get a chore. My car is clean. My toilets are clean. The school room is clean. The laundry is put away. And today - no socks. I am happy and sad about it!

 

For the general rules violations - I'd ground them and make sure they are by your side to help out cleaning and decluttering. I'd have a big list of things that need to be done so you don't run out. No tv. No snacks. No food outside when it's given to them and only in the kitchen (or outside, since they are eating like animals). No movies. No out of room before 7. In fact - leave a math book in their rooms and they can do that until 7! I'd post a list of your rules on the fridge. When they go a week reasonably following the rules - they can have 1 privilege back. Not all of them - one. I'd make a chart. Nag me - I take a day off. Ask - I take a day off. Attitude - one day off. Just do what's expected and you can earn your life back. I think if you are super consistent (and DH stands with you - especially with the 12 year old) then you should have a much lower stress level in a month. Hang in there - it's worth it!

[Barb_]

One other thing I wanted to mention. There is usually a ringleader. A group of kids will sink to level of their least self-controlled sibling. Mess breeds mess and my adhd child infected everyone around her for years until she matured.

 

Barb

[Night Elf]

All bets are off when you have a child with autism in any form.

 

Well, technically that's not true for all Aspies, thank goodness. My ds14 has never had a problem with destruction. He has always treated his things with respect. He's a rule follower, to the letter. When he was younger, he was quick to remind others of the rules too. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, my NT youngest dd? While never destructive, she's never been a rule follower like my ds14.

[Carrie12345]

One other thing I wanted to mention. There is usually a ringleader. A group of kids will sink to level of their least self-controlled sibling. Mess breeds mess and my adhd child infected everyone around her for years until she matured.

 

Barb

 

Wow. That's insanely true. I do believe my 7yo add'er and 3yo, well, 3yo, have very big influences on the older two.

[Marylou]

The level of respect for property and my "time and energy" goes in cycles. When we "hit bottom", which would be like the scene in the OP, I can pretty much predict the following:

 

1) Parental units involved had ceased consistent follow up and enforcement of rules such as "no food outside of kitchen".

2) A parental unit (or 2) had been pre-occupied by depression, school, work, health issues, dying parent, severe financial strain......for a period of time. That leads to #1.

3) Multiple family members have been spending too much time on screens (computer, TV, gaming systems).

4) Parental unit's most recent "schedule" or "routine" had worn off, enforcement lifted and new one undeveloped. The early momentum of a new system had waned, apathy followed.

5) Children had become disconnected from the pain of parental frustration, from the pain of paying for things out of their own money, their own free time or their own decisions about scheduling.

6) Junk food consumption seems to be proportionally connected to mess and property disrepect.

 

Exactly. Great post.

[Mrs Mungo]

ARE YOU GUYS JOKING????? I really I mean really no joke thought my boys were the only ones who did this kinda stuff. I am not being sarcastic or funny I really thought I had raised hellions. The stuff they have done has drove me to tears and screaming fits. I am shocked to know I am not the only one. My mother raised perfect children, no joke either. My brother and I lived in a museum and would never never have done these things. I have tried for years to figure what I did wrong with my boys. My mothers home was a museum perfectly dusted and all in order at all times. I never saw my mother child proof or put anything up and we raised in a home full of glass and antiques. I am just shocked and no offense a bit happy to know I am not alone in this.

 

Honestly, me too. I'm thinking of printing this thread out and showing it to my husband.

[idnib]

I checked out a book from the library called "Have a New Kid by Friday." It was more out of curiosity than anything else; my kids are generally well-behaved. (Although I realized that I have used some of the techniques in the book.) But a lot of my friends swear by it and that it works really fast. Maybe check it out from the library?

 

A few other tips that have helped me:

 

--Dad has to back you up no. matter. what. He can set the tone before he leaves for work. Is there a way he can come home one morning around 10:00 to see the mess? One time when my DH came home and saw the mess he really took the kids to task. Somehow having him turn up unexpectedly worked on them.

 

--Try and get up before (or at the same time as) they do, even if you have to go to bed earlier. It's tiring to get up earlier, but it's also tiring to deal with the mess.

 

--Have a lot less stuff. We got rid of 50% of our stuff and then 25% after that. I heard a great tip once: never have more toys than you'd be willing to pick up yourself if they were all out. (Not that you should be picking them up, but it's a guideline for quantity.) I completely agree with the poster who said kids who have too much stuff don't value what they own.

 

--I've heard good things about Accountable Kids. I'm sure there are other people here who've used it. It's a bit expensive but considering what you're going through it might be worth it.

 

I had a few other ideas but the kids distracted my and now I forget. :tongue_smilie:

[justamouse]

 

The level of respect for property and my "time and energy" goes in cycles. When we "hit bottom", which would be like the scene in the OP, I can pretty much predict the following:

 

1) Parental units involved had ceased consistent follow up and enforcement of rules such as "no food outside of kitchen".

2) A parental unit (or 2) had been pre-occupied by depression, school, work, health issues, dying parent, severe financial strain......for a period of time. That leads to #1.

3) Multiple family members have been spending too much time on screens (computer, TV, gaming systems).

4) Parental unit's most recent "schedule" or "routine" had worn off, enforcement lifted and new one undeveloped. The early momentum of a new system had waned, apathy followed.

5) Children had become disconnected from the pain of parental frustration, from the pain of paying for things out of their own money, their own free time or their own decisions about scheduling.

6) Junk food consumption seems to be proportionally connected to mess and property disrepect.

 

hooo yeah.

[Mommy22alyns]

Is this a boy thing, or have we just been lucky? The girls can get messy, sure, and don't want to pick things up unless they're told, but they've never destroyed stuff. Probably the most destructive thing either one of them has done was Becca drawing on the wall of the bathroom with a bathtub crayon. She was 2 or younger, IIRC. I couldn't get too mad at her since she was allowed to draw on the walls of the bathtub with them - this was just a matter of inches away.

[Elizabeth in WA]

Well, technically that's not true for all Aspies, thank goodness. My ds14 has never had a problem with destruction. He has always treated his things with respect. He's a rule follower, to the letter. When he was younger, he was quick to remind others of the rules too. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, my NT youngest dd? While never destructive, she's never been a rule follower like my ds14.

 

Yours stopped reminding the others of rules? While my 15 year old Aspie is a very reliable babysitter for his siblings, he drives me absolutely bonkers with his insistence on raising his siblings right while I am standing right here... I'm not convinced he will ever let me be the parent without being reminded, sigh.

[Danestress]

You are pregnant and you can't live this way. I know it's fun to joke around about boys be barbarians and making them live in the barn, but if you are like most of us, there is a limit to how much you can toss them outside and let nature raise them.

 

You can. not. let. this. continue if you care about your house being tidy. Some women care more than others. My boys trash their own bathroom, and I ignore it to some extent. Dishes around the house I absolutely could not tolerate. I guess we all know what our limits are.

 

I would attack two issues separately:

 

(1) Not doing what you should do (tidy up, but the lid on the toothpaste, make sure clothes actually go in the hamper).

 

and

 

(2) Doing what you know you are not allowed to do.

 

I would attack (2) with gusto and (1) with consistency and humor. Actually, my boys are kind of slobs and I clean up after them a lot. On the other hand, I feel like it's respect issue not to break rules. If they know that food in the kitchen is a rule, taking it out of the kitchen is pretty much saying, "You can't tell me what to do."

 

I also would have a chat with DH about what to expect of the children at different ages. Do you think your 12 year old is able to supervise the other children for a hour while you sleep? If so, give him a dollar a day to "babysit" but make sure he knows what the rules are - no food out of the kitchen, no tv, etc.

 

I personally think it's too much for that many children at those ages to be up alone unsupervised. Changing the dynamic in your home is going to take actual work and training on your part. You could probably get them to where they are aware enough of following the rules that this wouldn't happen, but it's going to take a lot of effort.

 

I understand that there are going to be rough and tumble boy accidents in life - broken windows, smashed plates, scratched cars. But this is just a matter of daily living style. You may always struggle with people dropping bath towles after they use them and leaving tissues lying around (ick!) but you shouldn't have to deal over and over again with intentionally violating known rules.

[Mom in High Heels]

No, that type of behavior is not tolerated in our house. If I had those problems, I'd be putting locks on my cabinets.

 

:iagree: I would absolutely not tolerate this type of behavior. He would lose everything he held dear until he proved himself capable of respecting our home. Indy is very good about cleaning up though and prefers not to make a big mess because it's more to clean up. He has to clean his room every night before bed. We have a lot of rules and he knows them. If he breaks the rules, he knows the consequences. Just because he's a boy doesn't mean he gets a pass to act like a barbarian.

[iona]

:grouphug:

[Geek]

Well, technically that's not true for all Aspies, thank goodness. My ds14 has never had a problem with destruction. He has always treated his things with respect. He's a rule follower, to the letter. When he was younger, he was quick to remind others of the rules too. :tongue_smilie:

 

Now, my NT youngest dd? While never destructive, she's never been a rule follower like my ds14.

Just goes to show you that just when you think there's a pattern, it's shot all to heck, lol.

[TXMary2]

Boys in general, are slobs. Kids in general, need to be trained. There are exceptions. My kids are not exceptions - they make messes and messes find them. It is a constant battle. I stress less now that I have accepted that I will not have a Better Homes & Gardens House until they all grow up and move out.

 

Would you feel better if I took a picture of my stairwell and sent it to you? It needs paint and there is a hole where some one chucked a baseball. It's truly amazing. If the ceiling wasn't 18 feet high, I would have painted it already.:glare:

[Geek]

:iagree: I would absolutely not tolerate this type of behavior. He would lose everything he held dear until he proved himself capable of respecting our home.

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

[Parrothead]

I"m sorry that this has happened to you and your family. You and your dh are going to have to stand together. Appropriate consequences need to be handed out.

 

If you told them not to get out of bed until you come get them then they need to go sit on their beds until lunch time. Or for an hour. Or until dad comes home.

 

If you told them not to get the baby out of the crib, and they blatantly disobeyed you then they need to write lines or write a letter to you apologizing for disobeying. And maybe 5 days later they can be allowed to watch television again.

 

If they eat in an area they are not allowed to, a missed meal or especially good dessert that evening won't hurt them one bit. I'd even make desert so they couldn't have it.

 

If they can't take a bath without trashing the bathroom, then they have to take a bath with dad's supervision and follow instructions for cleaning themselves and the bathroom without arguing or attitude.

 

There shouldn't be any reason dad can't stand in the bathroom doorway while they one at a time brush their teeth, clean out the sink and hang up the towel. If he goes to bed earlier than they do then they will have to brush early and no snacks between teeth brushing and bed.

 

And on and on. Life as they know it should come to a stand still until the problems are fixed. Consider having your dh take a Friday off so he can have a 3 day weekend to address these problems with you.

[simka2]

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

:grouphug:'s. It is very hard! I have 1 with ADD and an athletic/aggresive personality. He's a twin, and I was a hypervigilant scheduler as they were premies. I was a total Ezzo follower...it didn't matter :glare:. This is the boy who just broke the neighbors basketball hoop yesterday, he's grounded, and I caught him 20 ft up in a tree in the backyard! (He was supposed to be raking leaves, but got distracted by a birds egg, and "needed" to find the nest)

 

I'm tired!

[Geek]

 

I'm tired!

Nailed it. These kids are exhausting.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

This morning I woke to find three of the four boys laying around the living room, arguing over Netflix. There was food everywhere -- orange peels, empty bowls and glasses in the floor (empty glasses turned on their sides, up against the baseboards), cheerios and raisins strewn about the entire room and dumped out on the sofa, a half-eaten cup of applesauce overturned next to the sofa, laundry baskets turned over, books lying about, a huge tub of Legos dumped out, and blankets and pillows belonging to three of them. In addition, in the kitchen there were food and dishes everywhere -- peanut butter open on the counter, bread open, cereal out and open, butter knives (where someone had attempted to slice an orange), cookies (where the 2yo raided the cookie jar), and rice flung all over the floor (I am guessing the 2yo did that).

 

This rooms were spotless when they went to bed last night;

 

they aren't even supposed to watch television without asking, or touch the Playstation, which is necessary to view Netflix;

 

they aren't supposed to eat before we get up, nor are they to eat in the living room;

 

the 2yo is never to be taken out of his crib in the morning by anyone other than myself or dh;

 

and the list goes on.

 

And this was all between 6:15 (when dh left) and 7 (when I got up).

 

And then there is the other stuff -- drawing on the carpet with pastels (this was the 7yo and, yes, the art supplies are stored out of reach, but my 12yo takes them out all. the. time. and doesn't put them away, or takes them to his room, though he knows he isn't supposed to).

 

Trashing the bathroom every. single. night. when they go in to brush their teeth.

 

Soaking the bathroom floor every. single. time. they take a bath.

 

Completely trashing their rooms on a daily basis. Even our 12yo will just throw his school books on the floor, jam his papers under his bed or in a desk drawer instead of putting them in his notebooks, sneak drinks.snacks into his room and leave the dirty dishes. Ugh.

 

I am losing my mind. They have chores. I do make them clean up their own messes, which is exhausting in itself. I've told them not to get out of bed in the morning until I come to get them -- they don't listen. They say they forgot. They just won't stop doing this stuff over and over and over. I have tried grounding and revoking privileges. I do praise them for chores well done, as appropriate. What am I doing wrong?

 

Is this my lot in life? Is this sort of behavior tolerated in your home? How do you handle it? We didn't behave this way growing up; we knew we would get our butts whipped for stuff like this!

 

This is so us!!! I think it is the boy factor. I have four as well. It's so discouraging. This house goes from so clean to filthy in a few hours if I'm not wearing myself out being a cleaning freak of a mom. It sucks! Boys are so fun and wonderful in so many other ways though. :001_wub: So sorry mama. :grouphug:

[Parrothead]

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

But, has the OP indicated that she has children that are anything but neurotypical?

 

There really isn't any reason to put up with the kind of behavior that the OP described in her opening post. Generations of children have been raised and their mothers and fathers didn't put up with that kind of behavior. I know my grandmother didn't tolerate it from her children. My mother would never in a million years tolerate it from me or my brother. I certainly won't tolerate it from dd. Apparently MominHighHeals won't tolerate it from her ds.

 

If your child(ren) have emotional or intellectual or psychological issues then, sure, you might have to deal differently. So be it. But don't imply that parents of neurotypical kids should just accept bad behavior.

[Hedgehog]

An especial :grouphug: to you ladies who have struggled - and continue to struggle - with, shall we say, more challenging personalities. Mom's work is truly never done.

 

Horses for courses. I have 4, very individual, dc. What worked with the first, didn't work for the second. What worked for the second didn't work for the third.. etc. I had calm conversations, I offered incentives, I withdrew privileges, I spanked, I screeched, I had times of consistency (months on end) and times of slackness. I even left them all with dh for a weekend, and went off on my own for a break. And you know what? I still don't know what's going to work tomorrow. That's the bottom line: parenting is inventive, and usually exhausting.

 

Don't give up.. one day your dc will thank you for bothering to try and raise them right. At least, this is what I tell myself. ;)

[LostSurprise]

I have 4 boys, all close in age. It can be challenging, especially if you're pregnant. Yes, there is some destruction (mostly with the younger ones). I'm not sure if girls do that too but I'm the only Mom I know with one of her son's names carved into her headboard ("Did I do that? Okay, maybe I did. I don't remember'). Oh and the mass carving of the dining room table (with forks!) by everyone below a certain age. And the bodily fluids at kid-level on the walls.

 

Some of these things can be solved with maturity...others are the product of not taking the rules very seriously. In our house that means children need more (or more consistent) proof that doing these things are a bother and a drain on their energy and time (just like these things are a bother to you..and a drain on your energy and time).

 

Some kids will pick this up by having to clean up their messes or being grounded from an object or situation. Others won't. Some kids will hear an explanation of how annoyed this makes you and what a bother it is to you. Others won't. I find that a calm explanation of how this makes me feel and how my feelings affect them physically helps. Plus their correction of the situation. Plus an additional appropriate consequence(s) (no more cookies, extra chores, fewer privileges, more supervision, not being able to do things for them because the situation has made me tired or cranky) while they are retrained in house expectations. Plus making sure they have enough energy-draining activities usually straightens things (mostly) out.

 

Yes, they keep making messes. Yes, there's a disconnect between what they are doing now and future consequences. Yes, you still have to stay on them all the time, but if you keep pointing things out, calmly, and explaining the real-life consequences they start to get it.

 

Of course, some of them might be ready to move out by then. :lol:

 

I am starting to see the light come on in my 12 year old. A third of the time he will notice and correct himself. But the other 2/3 of the time he still puts the garbage on the floor 10 feet away from the can, dumps his toys in the doorway of his room, and drops tiny strips of paper on the floor as he walks around. :001_huh:

[Geek]

But don't imply that parents of neurotypical kids should just accept bad behavior.

Can you please show me where I implied this? I really don't know what it is that I said that meant "parents of neurotypical kids should just accept bad behavior", and if I did say such a thing I'd appreciate having it pointed out.

 

Thanks.

[rafiki]

.

[Parrothead]

Can you please show me where I implied this? I really don't know what it is that I said that meant "parents of neurotypical kids should just accept bad behavior", and if I did say such a thing I'd appreciate having it pointed out.

 

Thanks.

You know, I'm tired and maybe I'm reading more into what you said than is there. But your "I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents," just seemed to me to be a smack in the face to parents of normal kids.

 

Yes, I have a pretty normal kid. Yes, I'm a strict parent who will not tolerate disrespectful behavior. Yes, I have a tidy house and expect dd to do her share to keep it that way. No, I've not berated the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents." And I really don't think MomInHighHeels was either.

 

I suppose where you found offense in her post, I found the same in yours.

 

Truly I'm sorry you've been hurt by non-thinking idiots before. I don't think anyone on this thread berated you as not being a good parent. I didn't think she deserved to be berated either so I jumped in, indignant on behalf of parents who are strict.

 

Yup, you guessed it. I've been accused of being unkind, unthinking, raising an automaton who can't think for herself, etc., because I expect a certain amount of self-control, discipline, cleanliness...

[pbt1294]

I feel truly so sorry for moms that have to deal with a child that just doesn't lack the capacity to empathize. It must be incredibly tiresome. I do know that you guys are out there dealing with these problems day in and day out.

 

I have to say though, that I have also seen parents that I almost felt would rather their child have some sort of mental problem than to admit that they were not parenting well.

 

For instance the child that can completely control themselves when I have them for a whole weekend, but treat their parents and their parent's property with utter disrespect.

Because they know that they can. Their parents have "given" them permission in a sense by labeling them as....whatever.

 

I'm actually talking about my own family members. It make me sad for those parents because they rob themselves of the blessings that their kids could be to them.

[Night Elf]

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion about NT kids being different than kids on the spectrum. Did the OP say she she had a child(ren) on the spectrum? I totally missed that if she did.

 

As to what I would do, personally? I'd seek counseling. I've gotten lots of good help from counselors. I'm not saying everyone should do the same thing, but it's what I would personally do. I can't imagine just giving up and letting it all go. And I can't imagine I'd have the creativity or strength to put up with it. I would need help.

[Geek]

That ever-present problem of "tone" on the internet rears its head again. Sigh. I'm always sorry (and a bit frustrated) when this happens.

 

You know, I'm tired and maybe I'm reading more into what you said than is there. But your "I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents," just seemed to me to be a smack in the face to parents of normal kids.

Hmm. I honestly tried hard to convey that *wasn't* the case. I laced this remark with qualifiers--bolded below. Perhaps you didn't notice these the first time? (I bolded "often" because I deliberately chose that word to indicate I wasn't making a generalization that applies to everyone.)

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

I guess I'm not sure how I should have expressed these thoughts in such a way that you wouldn't have taken offense. :confused:

 

Yes, I have a pretty normal kid. Yes, I'm a strict parent who will not tolerate disrespectful behavior. Yes, I have a tidy house and expect dd to do her share to keep it that way. No, I've not berated the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents." And I really don't think MomInHighHeels was either.

Neither do I. And I think if we met in person you'd find we have a lot more in common re: parenting than we'd not have in common.

 

I suppose where you found offense in her post, I found the same in yours.

Please let me be clear now about something: I wasn't offended. I said more than once that I was trying to offer another perspective. That's all. I'm truly not sure where you got the idea that I was offended. :001_huh:

 

And I'm sorry you were offended by what I wrote, offering another perspective. I guess I shouldn't have offered this opinion at all...? I wish I knew how to handle things like this.

 

For the record, I decided to offer another perspective because of all the strongly-worded posts that bespoke a businesslike, no-nonsense attitude toward discipline. This has frequently--not always--*in my experience*, been associated with the type of parent I've been judged unfairly by. As a result I decided to throw in another angle.

 

didn't think she deserved to be berated either so I jumped in, indignant on behalf of parents who are strict.

I am sorry that you think I berated her. I didn't think I did.

 

Yup, you guessed it. I've been accused of being unkind, unthinking, raising an automaton who can't think for herself, etc., because I expect a certain amount of self-control, discipline, cleanliness...

Should I take offense at this? I think I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't saying that other parents don't expect a certain amount of self-control, discipline, cleanliness.

 

I do expect those things. In fact, I have pretty high standards imo.

 

Here's what I think: we've both been judged for how we parent. That stinks. :001_smile:

[Geek]

I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion about NT kids being different than kids on the spectrum. Did the OP say she she had a child(ren) on the spectrum? I totally missed that if she did.

Do threads never evolve on this forum? Really?

 

Wow. I'm sorry.

[Night Elf]

Do threads never evolve on this forum? Really?

 

Wow. I'm sorry.

 

Well of course they do. I just didn't know if that was what was happening. IMHO, the advice on this thread is really directed at the OP who likely does not have a child on the spectrum. As we moms of spectrum kids know, typical parenting advice doesn't always work with our children. So if you needed help specifically with spectrum issues, I think you should begin a new post to give it the attention it deserves. I'm just seeing it as a totally different topic. Yes threads evolve. But you won't get as many people reading your particular problem if you stick it in with a post that began in a different direction.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know that I'm most likely to be helped by the posters who say "I've BTDT and have had some success at dealing with it. This is what has helped me. Hopefully it might help you." Posts by people who have never BTDT are not so helpful simply because the person has not BTDT. And often, even though they don't mean it to, it comes across wrong because everyone can see that they haven't BTDT and can't truly empathize or know some of the difficulties involved.

 

My ds is NT as far as I know, but he is a scientist and by age 2 had figured out every childproof lock that I could find. He took apart all his toys and often we couldn't put them together again. At age 3, he got a hold of a screwdriver and took down all the stair railings. Fortunately we were able to get those put back.

 

My dd is an artist and the world literally is her canvas. If she invites you to come and see her etchings, they will be on the windowsill, the closet door, the fence etc. She has painted with nail polish on her newly painted walls and has stamped designs on the carpet.

 

Both children also have this severe vision problem where they can not see toys or garbage that is on the floor - even if they are stepping on it.:glare:

 

Ds has gotten better as we've been able to channel his experiments in more productive ways. Dd also has gotten better as we've channeled her artistic tendencies. Both have a tendency to regress when bored.

 

I have slowly trained them to tidy the living room every night. Ds has a fairly tidy room. Dd9 (sigh) has a pig sty as a room. I've helped her clean it. I've taken tons of stuff out of it. It breeds junk overnight. I really didn't see it as a joke when ds put a "Danger- Biohazard" sign on her door as an April Fool's joke this morning. . .

[FO4UR]

Oh my word!

 

I've been sick this week...and the house is ooooooozing with kid junk.:glare: (But we kept up with our spelling and math, by golly!)

 

They will push their boundaries every single time. If I allow the mess, they will mess...

 

I just bought shiny new markers...and am withholding them until the house is back in order. How is that for parenting?:tongue_smilie:

 

I think mine have too many toys...I know they have too many toys. I weed through them every 3-4months or so...I guess it's time.:glare:

[Nestof3]

Oooh, I like this!! I think I might try it with my girls. However, I already know what they are going to say...."Can we leave our village set up so that we can play with it in the morning???"

 

As long as they are still playing with something, and the rest of the room isn't in shambles, isn't okay just to keep it up? I mean, I would want the same courtesy.

 

When I'm having a good day, ;), I enter the playroom and ask what they are finished with. If they say nothing, I urge them to find something or they will have to clean it all up. It's sort of normal around here for Playmobil and Legos to continue to the next day.