How do you pick yourself up when you feel unappreciated and criticized

[Sonshine]

I, like you other mothers, put a lot into my children. Criticizing me seems to be the family sport for the girls, with dad tacitly giving his approval and joining in. It gets very discouraging. My kids have done well, much of it due to what my husband and I have both instilled in them, along with our church. Of course, the criticism part is not good at all. The criticism is along the lines of criticizing my driving, my lack of indepth understanding of the sport they play, my forgetting to turn in library books, my pushing my son to complete college scholarship essays, etc. The boys are actually the nicest ones, with the younger son a real sweetie. If it weren't so constant, with very little in the way of compliments or appreciation, that would be understandable.

 

My husband's mother, while a wonderful woman in almost every other way, was not at all given to complimenting or encouraging people. I would be surprised if I received more than 10 sincere compliments (not about the clothes I was wearing, etc) from her the entire time I knew her (over 20 years until her recent passing). She was not at all critical however, so it balanced out. I think she just came from a stoic European German type background.

 

My late fil was actually a very critical sort - enough said. I mention his parents to say that my husband does not know how unhealthy it is to the entire family to tacitly approve of so much criticism of me. He is not very critical of the children, just me. Anyway, just giving a lengthy background here. I'm not asking for marriage counseling here - there is a lot more background here that I am not going to get into.

 

I mainly am asking if you ladies can share how you keep from being utterly discouraged if you have a similar situation. And how to take steps to end it - at least with the kids. I am thinking of practical boundary setting - i.e. if you are critical of me, I won't drive you where you need to go. Why would I want to do a favor for someone who is unkind to me? The problem with this is the place they need to go the most is to their sport. If they don't show up, it harms the whole team. I am thinking of keeping track in a visible place in the house, of the criticisms and complaints, and if they reach over a certain level, which should be very few, saying I won't take them to their sport for the next season. I won't sign them up period. What do you think of this, and do you have any other suggestions?

 

I make a lot of mistakes in life and there is plenty to criticize. But I don't think it is the children's place to constantly do this. While not extra sweet, I am not a yeller and actively encourage all of my children very frequently. Words are my love language, and I feel like I am crumbling inside so much of the time. I do have 2 very encouraging friends - they are what has kept me from severe depression over the situation over the years.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

2 things:

 

1. I take great comfort in the fact that God knows me in a deep way that truly knows my heart, my motives and my hurts in a way that even my husband and kids cannot.

 

2. I would start asking them, "What was your motive for saying that to me?" I would want to know, are they trying to make you feel badly, to build themselves up at your expense, to be witty in a modern sit-com sort of way? Sometimes when people have a mirror held up to not only what they are saying and doing but why, it can change their hearts.

[silliness7]

It hurts my feelings when you talk about me like that. OR

It is disrespectful for you to talk about your mother that way. OR

Would you apologize to me for speaking so unkindly?

 

Would you be up to saying something along these lines? My ds's are starting to get a little mouthy now that they're entering the terrible teens. Heck, my dd's can get sassy too, calling me old or gray or fat. :001_smile: It doesn't bother me but I know they want it to. I tell them straight up that they are not being nice. In any other relationship it might sound weird. I'm the Mom so I tackle the character training even when it gets personal. But hey, if I have to tell them 100 times a day to be nice to each other I guess I'm going to have to tell them to be nice to me too. If I don't do it, ain't nobody else gonna do it. ;)

[silliness7]

I, like you other mothers, put a lot into my children. Criticizing me seems to be the family sport for the girls, with dad tacitly giving his approval and joining in. It gets very discouraging. My kids have done well, much of it due to what my husband and I have both instilled in them, along with our church. Of course, the criticism part is not good at all. The criticism is along the lines of criticizing my driving, my lack of indepth understanding of the sport they play, my forgetting to turn in library books, my pushing my son to complete college scholarship essays, etc. The boys are actually the nicest ones, with the younger son a real sweetie. If it weren't so constant, with very little in the way of compliments or appreciation, that would be understandable.

 

My husband's mother, while a wonderful woman in almost every other way, was not at all given to complimenting or encouraging people. I would be surprised if I received more than 10 sincere compliments (not about the clothes I was wearing, etc) from her the entire time I knew her (over 20 years until her recent passing). She was not at all critical however, so it balanced out. I think she just came from a stoic European German type background.

 

My late fil was actually a very critical sort - enough said. I mention his parents to say that my husband does not know how unhealthy it is to the entire family to tacitly approve of so much criticism of me. He is not very critical of the children, just me. Anyway, just giving a lengthy background here. I'm not asking for marriage counseling here - there is a lot more background here that I am not going to get into.

 

I mainly am asking if you ladies can share how you keep from being utterly discouraged if you have a similar situation. And how to take steps to end it - at least with the kids. I am thinking of practical boundary setting - i.e. if you are critical of me, I won't drive you where you need to go. Why would I want to do a favor for someone who is unkind to me? The problem with this is the place they need to go the most is to their sport. If they don't show up, it harms the whole team. I am thinking of keeping track in a visible place in the house, of the criticisms and complaints, and if they reach over a certain level, which should be very few, saying I won't take them to their sport for the next season. I won't sign them up period. What do you think of this, and do you have any other suggestions?

 

I make a lot of mistakes in life and there is plenty to criticize. But I don't think it is the children's place to constantly do this. While not extra sweet, I am not a yeller and actively encourage all of my children very frequently. Words are my love language, and I feel like I am crumbling inside so much of the time. I do have 2 very encouraging friends - they are what has kept me from severe depression over the situation over the years.

 

I was just rereading your post and think you should hone in on the bolded. It darn well isn't their place to criticize you. It would be nice if dh instructed them on that and maybe he would if you asked. But if not, feel free to instruct them. You taught them how to put their poop in the pot. You can teach them how they are to talk to their mother. Good luck!

[Sonshine]

I don't mind at all telling them they are being rude, etc. It's like talking to the wall. The girls level of criticism seems well withing "normal" bounds for teenage girls that think they know more than than their mothers. They have been grounded for anything any ruder. However, their social life through their sport is enough that they don't suffer too much when grounded. That is why I am thinking of drawing a line and not signing them for the next sport season, which is coming in 1 1/2 months.

 

However, it just gets really discouraging when the family is sitting around and they take turns putting me down. That is not what I signed up for in a Christian marriage. Honestly, with the approval and joining in by my husband the only thing that has worked in the past has been setting boundaries in very concrete ways. For example, when dropping off one of my older sons at work years ago, he started an ugly argument. I told him I wasn't driving him to work the next few days because I didn't care to be around people who were unkind to me. My husband chose to drive him to work and came down hard on him because my husband was put out that he had to drive him to work. He had to suffer my husband's anger because he put my husband out not because my husband thought he was out of line to treat me in such a manner. However this worked and my son refrained from this behavior when receiving a ride from me to work.

 

Again, I am trying to keep from being too discouraged and looking for ideas in dealing with this and setting tighter boundaries with the girls.

 

I so appreciate Jean's kindness and insight and your ideas too silliness

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Do you cook for them? Do laundry?

 

I would try to think what you do for them that you are not thinking of that you could use as incentives.

 

I would also try to explain more to your husband and have him help come up with ideas.

[Dolphin]

One thing you can do is let them see how sad it makes you, don't try to hide it. If you want to cry, cry.

 

I don't allow it. When my ds says something mean, I explain to him how it makes me feel when he says that. I will give an example of something I could say in his world that would be similar. If it hurts my heart, I tell him. He really doesn't like to make me sad, and knowing he has done that is usually enough to change that.

 

When I was a teen, my mom started taking things away from me. I got mad cause she dies my new white concert shirt blue, that was the last load of laundry she did for me. She marched me to the laundry room and showed me what to do and said if I was that unappreciative I could do my own laundry, I was 15.

[Sonshine]

One of my daughters does the laundry. The girls and I take turns cooking. They are not bad girls - but the critical attitude has got to stop. Again, at best my husband is not helpful in this area. But brainstorming to think of what privileges, etc they have is great. One daughter is very tied in to her cellphone.

Again, though she needs that with her when she goes to sports. I have to make sure she knows who to ride home with when carpooling, etc. She could do without it for some of the time however. Even being without it half the time would bother her. Watching TV is a big hobby with the kids. In fact, one of the girls is grounded from that for 2 weeks currently.

[Sonshine]

I may be wrong, but I really don't think they care how I feel. It is hard to teach someone to care about that when is is not a shared family value.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Sonshine
Trying to go by board rules.

[Anne in CA]

Um, if your dh calls you manipulative to your dc, you do need real marraige counseling. You need to read up on verbal abuse, which that is, and get a counselor who deals with it firmly. Many, many counselors do not see verbal abuse as a root problem. They want the victem to fix things first, and that validates the abuser. I saw such a counselor this year and my life has improved 100%. There is no way the change would have been made if another man hadn't called him on his garbage.

 

If your dh won't go to counseling I hope you will go by yourself and make sure dh foots the bill. You could pay for the counseling by dropping the sports of children who engage in this behavior. :D

 

I will stop now before I get this thread shut down, because I do think you need encouragement.:grouphug:

[Kirch]

:grouphug: You have to teach people how to treat you. It's been going on long enough that it's "normal" to them. You're going to have to stand up and insist on being treated with respect.

 

Honestly, it seems like you're bending over backwards a bit when it comes to their sports. If you set the boundaries (i.e., not taking them to practice or allowing them to go or whatever), communicate them clearly, and they choose to cross the line, tough cookies. They made the choice and have to live with the consequences. How hard those consequences are for them to live with (within reason, obviously--nothing abusive) is *their* problem. It's letting the other team members down if they don't come? That's *their* problem, not yours. They're the ones who crossed the line. If you're constantly taking that on yourself rather than making them own it, you're not going to get anywhere. With kids as old as yours, they are certainly capable of understanding and rising to meet the standard. Your son obviously did in the example you gave, right? I think it's totally appropriate for you to remove privileges--even as drastic as missing their practices and even games. If it's that important to them, it would be an effective consequence. And especially since they're teens, I wouldn't mess with a chart or saying that if they reach X number, then they lose a ride or participation. That just sends the message that's okay to be rude up to X number of times without a consequence. They're old enough to not need extra chances.

 

You mentioned the cell phone. If she loses it, she either can't go to sports if it's really that important, or she can find other ways to communicate (i.e., use a friend's phone or the coach's phone).

 

Use lots of "I" statements, and call them on it immediately. "When you say ____, it makes me feel ________. What you said was rude and disrespectful." Or, "I'm the mom. It's not your job to correct me--that's enough." Make eye contact. Ask for an apology. You might even ask them if they would have any friends if they treated their friends that way.

 

The lack of support from your husband is tough. You're going to have an uphill battle if he's contributing to the issue.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Kirch

[Sonshine]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah - I know what you are saying about the marriage issue. Been there, dealt with a lot of things myself. Counselors were not helpful. Books and friends are much more helpful than counselors have been. My focus can't be on changing him as it is more productive to to focus on setting my own boundaries with my children. I didn't think of it as allowing them to emotionally and verbally abuse me. Thank you for that insight.

 

The sports organization we are in has a lot of close families. I would rather not sign the girls up to begin with than put my friends in a predicament.

[kalanamak]

 

I mainly am asking if you ladies can share how you keep from being utterly discouraged if you have a similar situation. And how to take steps to end it - at least with the kids. I am thinking of practical boundary setting - i.e. if you are critical of me, I won't drive you where you need to go. Why would I want to do a favor for someone who is unkind to me? The problem with this is the place they need to go the most is to their sport. If they don't show up, it harms the whole team. I am thinking of keeping track in a visible place in the house, of the criticisms and complaints, and if they reach over a certain level, which should be very few, saying I won't take them to their sport for the next season. I won't sign them up period. What do you think of this, and do you have any other suggestions?

 

 

I don't know how old your children are, but even at 8, I would sit my son down and ask him why he says such things. I would give him examples of what I could say to him along those lines. I'd tell him it was hurtful, and I just know he doesn't want to be hurtful (this is true, he is not a hurtful child). I'd also tell him part of my job as a parent is to help him be a happy grown-up, and learning to be sensitive to the people you live with is part of this.

 

Then, when he said something, I'd remind him that this was an example of this. If this got no where, I'd start putting up a firm "no" response ("Stop being hurtful or forget about Friday movie night. I mean it!" And mean it!) If it continued, he'd go to his room to think it over. He hates being cut off from me when I'm home, and this would be a sincere punishment.

 

If he was a teen, I would cut to the chase after the sincere talk didn't help. I'd tell him he was old enough to know better, and if he was going to act like a potty mouth toddler, he could have the rights of one, too. Nix on this, nix on that. I hear blow by blow "negotiations" between moms and kids at work ("you'll never guess what Ashley just texted me"), and I will nip this pronto, tonto.

 

I would not keep a "log" of this. I would find this to be giving them too much attention for this. Or, alternatively, it would become a ho-hum thing ("mom's stupid list"). You should, as my stoical European German-type mother would say, "put your foot down".

 

And now for a hint I sometimes use on me, use it if it is useful, but don't think it too odd if you can't: If you can't do it FOR YOURSELF, do it for their future marriage.

HTH :grouphug:

[Sonshine]

^^^ So are you saying take privileges away at the first rude remark? And keep taking more away until they stop? The problem is I run out of privileges that I can think of to take away. That is why I am thinking of just taking away a huge privilege for a time.

[kalanamak]

^^^ So are you saying take privileges away at the first rude remark? And keep taking more away until they stop? The problem is I run out of privileges that I can think of to take away. That is why I am thinking of just taking away a huge privilege for a time.

 

I would have the talk. I'd give them some prompting on what these remarks are. Habits die hard. It has become a habit, it sounds like. Then I'd be up front about what continuing this will result in if they didn't quickly learn to respond with an acknowledgment they had slipped. (E.g. kiddo was starting to say "hold ON" in a somewhat contentious way when I asked him to get ready for bed, and I told him I was tired of this, and this phrase was now on the forbidden list. The next time he said it, he clapped his hand on his mouth with an oops look, the time after that he corrected with "I mean, I'm coming" and then no more mistakes.) Since my kiddo isn't a teen yet, I'm not sure what I would do specifically for that age.

 

Currently, not being taken to the Y in the evening after school is a blow to him, and when he is rude to his Papa (he isn't rude to me, papa is more on teasing-peer level with him), I remind him with "the look" about just who takes him to the Y and gives up his evening for him, and that works very well.

[Sonshine]

^^^ So sit each one down, have a heart to heart talk, then follow up on not signing them up for the next sport when things don't change? I don't mean to be a pessimist, but I think they will have to learn the hard way.

[Trish]

I would either call a family meeting, or, sit with them one on one, and explain exactly what you've told us. That as a family you've developed some bad habits (explain in detail), and that you find this very hurtful, and not how a Christian family ought to behave.

 

My feeling is, because this is a "habit," I would allow them ONE remark of that sort per day -- at which point I would issue a warning, and then any further remark of that kind on that day would result in an AUTOMATIC loss of (whatever). Can't go to sports. Can't use the cell. Can't watch TV. Or all three.

 

Remind yourself that breaking them of this bad habit is GOOD FOR THEM TOO. You don't want them to perpetuate this type of thing in their own lives. It will make their eventual spouses and familes unhappy, too. It's for YOUR good, AND theirs!

 

It's what God would want you to do. Good luck!

 

:grouphug:

[kalanamak]

^^^ So sit each one down, have a heart to heart talk, then follow up on not signing them up for the next sport when things don't change? I don't mean to be a pessimist, but I think they will have to learn the hard way.

 

The hard way is better than a bitter divorce 20 years down the road.

 

When kiddo was littler he went through a daunting phase of laughing at every correction or punishment. ("I wanted you to take away my stuffed cat, hahahahahaha!") It was causing conflict with hubby. Finally, in an extreme bout of need to have a conversation with hubby without prying little ears, I locked him in his room for 20 minutes. He was silent, hubby and I were all prepared to deal with him, and I even posted here asking for help. Well, he came out fully sobered. 20 minutes of lock down took vinegar right out of his pickle. He was SO nice after that. :lol:

[ElizabethB]

Do they have their own money?

 

You could start charging for the mom taxi as a penalty. Free rides for those with good behavior. Then, you're punishing them, but not the team.

[kalanamak]

Do they have their own money?

 

 

 

My mother started charging my dad for jokes he repeated. She once told me a joke he was really fond of bought groceries for the week. (They had separate money, and, e.g. she paid groceries, and he paid utilities.) If it was "off" color, she charged double.

[Liz CA]

I read between the lines that your husband joining in hurts you more than the criticism from your children.

 

I would start with dh. Tell him with "I feel" statements how affected your are by his approval of others criticizing you. If he cannot or will not understand it, ask him to go to counseling with you. Again, you may have to work it in such a way that he thinks you need to go to counseling to deal better with life, i.e "I think I need to hear someone's perspective on this so I don't take the criticism so hard. Will you come with me and help me through counseling?"

Hopefully, he will find out that his behavior is not helpful, neither to you or to his children. He is setting a bad example and a counselor can probably reveal this to him in a non-confrontational way so he can hear it and make changes.

 

When my ds criticizes me and I feel it has some merit, I might say something like: "You are right, the meat was overcooked and dry. I have to pay better attention next time."

However, if it was not justified, I would say something along the lines of:

"I am sorry you feel this way, however I have my reasons for doing .... this way and it works for me."

If the criticism borders on disrespect, either in content or delivery, setting stronger boundaries is necessary.

[ElizabethB]

My mother started charging my dad for jokes he repeated. She once told me a joke he was really fond of bought groceries for the week. (They had separate money, and, e.g. she paid groceries, and he paid utilities.) If it was "off" color, she charged double.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Liz CA]

I read between the lines that your husband joining in hurts you more than the criticism from your children.

 

I would start with dh. Tell him with "I feel" statements how affected your are by his approval of others criticizing you. If he cannot or will not understand it, ask him to go to counseling with you. Again, you may have to work it in such a way that he thinks you need to go to counseling to deal better with life, i.e "I think I need to hear someone's perspective on this so I don't take the criticism so hard. Will you come with me and help me through counseling?"

Hopefully, he will find out that his behavior is not helpful, neither to you nor to his children. He is setting a bad example and a counselor can probably reveal this to him in a non-confrontational way so he can hear it and make changes.

 

When my ds criticizes me and I feel it has some merit, I might say something like: "You are right, the meat was overcooked and dry. I have to pay better attention next time."

However, if it was not justified, I would say something along the lines of:

"I am sorry you feel this way, however I have my reasons for doing .... this way and it works for me."

If the criticism borders on disrespect, either in content or delivery, setting stronger boundaries is necessary.

[lmkzbcb]

What I have done with my children: (socratic method)

 

1 - Ask them "Are you building me up or tearing me down?"

2 - If they are honest they will admit to tearing you down. Then ask "Why are you tearing me down?"

3 - Chances are they are not going to know. At this point, tell them that God gave you eachother for good, to help eachother, to lift eachother up when we are down, friends will come and go, but your family will be the only people that you will know for all of your life. "You must protect that relationship from harm. What happens to our relationship when you tear me down?" "What would happen if I tore you down?"

4 - At times if what they said was particularly bad, I have taken a bottle of hot sauce, put several drops into a spoon and made them take it. They can spit it out. I tell them it is to remind them that their words are powerful and are like fire. They can be life giving or life destroying. They must choose what they want their words to do. Give or destroy. Advise that their life will be better off if they choose to give life.

5 - If that has failed, you can do what my MIL does at the school where she teaches. Students write Eph. 5:1-21 and Eph. 4:20-32 ____ times. These are particularly helpful scriptures. Whatever you feel is appropriate for the age.

6 - Then warn if they continue they will loose priviledges, such as sports.

 

One more suggestion, does dh tear you down in private as well as in front of the kids? (I would not suggest you do this in front of the kids) But if you can get him in a private place, then take the opportunity to ask why he is tearing you down. Then calmly ask him not to do it. Refrain from justifyng to him why you want him to stop; because you will end up in a debate with him about the validity of it. You dont want that, because then it becomes subjective in his mind. Or you can show him those above scriptures as justification. It'll be harder for him to argue with God. LOL

If you continue to let it go on, it will either crush you under its weight or you will explode like a volcano under pressure. Let me suggest that you handle this while you can still do it with logic.

<<<HUGS>>>

[Kirch]

^^^ So sit each one down, have a heart to heart talk, then follow up on not signing them up for the next sport when things don't change? I don't mean to be a pessimist, but I think they will have to learn the hard way.

 

Chances are that they will have to learn the hard way. Your idea would definitely show that you're serious--but then what? The problem is that it *is* one big consequence, but then what are you going to do if they keep it up or go back to it? Several months until the next season begins is a *long* time to wait for the next chance to get it right, and chances are that they'll be rather miffed with you for imposing such a drastic consequence, which would probably lead to more inappropriate comments in the meantime.

 

I really think you need something repeatable that you can enforce more than just once. You need something that will sting when you enact it but that doesn't last forever and that you can use again so that they can have the chance to try again--to learn from those consequences and retrain themselves out of speaking that way. You need something that will make them stop and think before they talk to you that way next time--and they need lots of "next times." If you just take away sports the next season, they won't have another chance to face the consequences until the season after that, and you don't have another consequence to enforce when they continue being critical and disrespectful.

[Sonshine]

Wow - lots of wonderful insight. I am truly grateful.

 

Speaking with my husband does not help a thing. I am better off dealing with this on my own. He will not go to counseling. Yes, his unconcern hurts the most. However, I can stay away from him more than I can and should stay away from the kids. I am not responsible to raise him to be a loving person. There is a lot more to say about this but I won't.

 

I think if I sit each girl down by themselves and explain everything you ladies have mentioned, Bible verses and all, they will get it at some level. I know I will still have to have consequences. Maybe I'm making that part more complicated than it needs to be. It's hard to figure out what to take away and for how long.

[Peela]

I feel for you and don't have much to add to what others have said.

I feel that perhaps my own situation could have gone the same way if I hadn't been fiercely assertive over and over about the respect issues. But for me, I was always prepared to walk out the door if it got too bad, and that drew a line that was respected.

In other words, I did have to fight for respect, but I did get it. I don't know if that is helpful for you. I know it was helpful for my kids.

But consider yourself :grouphug:

[lailasmum]

Could you maybe try do a time each day when you and your children sit down and together and give compliments or positive statements about each other. Say towards the end of each day. Even if its just saying things like You did really well at xyz today or You tried really hard or I was really happy that you were ready to go out on time, I really enjoyed being with you today, or I was proud of you for xyz, or maybe commenting on any sharing or fun that went on that day.

 

Then it could help them learn your language of love.

 

Maybe try and make them feel how nice it is to get a compliment and be appreciated.. Even if you've had a hard day find something.

 

It might feel really awkward at first.

[Sonshine]

Yes - I love the idea of giving compliments! I already compliment them a fair amount. It doesn't seem to mean much to them - maybe they either take it for granted or it isn't their love language. I can teach them to make a habit of complimenting everyone in the family, me included.

 

Peela - thank you for sharing. I can't say much more on that issue but it's good to hear other's experiences.

[Mom0012]

I don't mind at all telling them they are being rude, etc. It's like talking to the wall. The girls level of criticism seems well withing "normal" bounds for teenage girls that think they know more than than their mothers. They have been grounded for anything any ruder. However, their social life through their sport is enough that they don't suffer too much when grounded. That is why I am thinking of drawing a line and not signing them for the next sport season, which is coming in 1 1/2 months.

 

However, it just gets really discouraging when the family is sitting around and they take turns putting me down. That is not what I signed up for in a Christian marriage. Honestly, with the approval and joining in by my husband the only thing that has worked in the past has been setting boundaries in very concrete ways. For example, when dropping off one of my older sons at work years ago, he started an ugly argument. I told him I wasn't driving him to work the next few days because I didn't care to be around people who were unkind to me. My husband chose to drive him to work and came down hard on him because my husband was put out that he had to drive him to work. He had to suffer my husband's anger because he put my husband out not because my husband thought he was out of line to treat me in such a manner. However this worked and my son refrained from this behavior when receiving a ride from me to work.

 

Again, I am trying to keep from being too discouraged and looking for ideas in dealing with this and setting tighter boundaries with the girls.

 

I so appreciate Jean's kindness and insight and your ideas too silliness

 

Honestly, I would lash back at them and then get up and leave. I'd let them know I wasn't going to tolerate that garbage and I'd have a long talk with my husband. If that evokes no response, then absolutely, I'd refrain from signing them up for their sports. I can't imagine putting up with behavior that must be very damaging to your self esteem. I know if my family started acting like this, it would throw me into a depression, but I think it might actually be better to respond with rage and stand up for yourself. It sounds like you are being bullied in your own family.

 

Lisa

[mysticamethyst]

Honestly, I would lash back at them and then get up and leave. I'd let them know I wasn't going to tolerate that garbage and I'd have a long talk with my husband. If that evokes no response, then absolutely, I'd refrain from signing them up for their sports. I can't imagine putting up with behavior that must be very damaging to your self esteem. I know if my family started acting like this, it would throw me into a depression, but I think it might actually be better to respond with rage and stand up for yourself. It sounds like you are being bullied in your own family.

 

Lisa

 

Yep, I totally agree, sounds like you are being bullied by your children and your dh just watches. There would be no way I would let my children criticizes me. Maybe a joke here and there if I burnt dinner or something really silly but honest, ugly back talk not happening. Rides would stop, activities for THEM would stop and mom would be out doing a whole lot more I can tell you that. If you can't respect me then I will do the bare mininum for you, clothes and food that is it. No where does it say I must pay for your phone, designer clothes and any other extras. We give up lots so that our children can have, and I can promise there would be no way I would want to give up anything for teen attitudes like that. :confused:

 

I would definately have words with dh and let him know that this can no longer go on and I expect his help in controlling girls attitudes. If he is no help then I would just start leaving the room when they act up might even pinch someones cheek with vigor as I walk by.

 

I wish you the best of luck and wish I had better advice for you but I know you have gotten plenty and more will come. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[LauraGB]

For what it's worth, I was a child in a family like that. It's entirely possible your kids just don't know they are doing it, or that it's not okay to do it. I was an older teen/younger adult before I realized that most people don't really care to be overly criticized. It sounds ridiculous, but we are a product of our environment to a great degree, and I just didn't know. And those outside influences were a tremendous awakening for me. Honestly, I think I can still be scathingly critical, but at least I catch it and can consider how my words would make me feel if someone else said them to me. Talk, talk, talk to your kids about it. And once you've made yourself very clear, don't tolerate it. It sounds like your kids might be older (not elementary age), and if that's the case, you might consider just not being the taxi for the day if they are going to treat you poorly...and then actually follow through with it, rather than hold it over their heads as an idle threat.

 

 

I feel for you and don't have much to add to what others have said.

I feel that perhaps my own situation could have gone the same way if I hadn't been fiercely assertive over and over about the respect issues. But for me, I was always prepared to walk out the door if it got too bad, and that drew a line that was respected.

In other words, I did have to fight for respect, but I did get it. I don't know if that is helpful for you. I know it was helpful for my kids.

But consider yourself :grouphug:

 

:iagree:And I would also suggest that when you do walk out the door (calmly, and with intent to return ;)), time it over the time when you would have been doing something for them that was important for them and do something entirely personal for yourself - something you can't share, like a massage or a pedicure, or get your hair colored; something that makes you feel good. Hopefully that will help get your point across that you are a person, too, one who should be appreciated and respected.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I may be wrong, but I really don't think they care how I feel. It is hard to teach someone to care about that when is is not a shared family value.

 

:grouphug:

 

I know how you feel. I have one, my youngest, who seems to be tuned in to other people's feelings (to a fault, he so soft-hearted), and he is a real blessing to me.

 

I think the others care, but they just aren't tuned in, KWIM?

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Honestly, I would lash back at them and then get up and leave. I'd let them know I wasn't going to tolerate that garbage and I'd have a long talk with my husband. If that evokes no response, then absolutely, I'd refrain from signing them up for their sports. I can't imagine putting up with behavior that must be very damaging to your self esteem. I know if my family started acting like this, it would throw me into a depression, but I think it might actually be better to respond with rage and stand up for yourself. It sounds like you are being bullied in your own family.

 

Lisa

 

ITA. In recent months, I BLEW MY STACK over very similar behavior from a couple of members of my immediate family (dh and oldest).

 

When "I blew my stack" I let it all out.

 

I got in my dh's face and told him to "F-off" and that he's not "all that" to be talking to me like he was.

 

I told him, "I love you, but I love me more and I'm not putting up with being treated like this. I deserve better."

 

We were upstairs and the kids probably heard every word (my oldest needed to hear it anyway as he was treating me poorly too).

 

Okay, I know this sounds bad. (Jerry Springer, anyone?). However, it was one of the happiest days in my marriage. My dh has shown me much more respect and appreciation since the blow up. We have had some very good, productive conversations since. My oldest has been very nice too....:D

 

I have found my backbone and used it to turn around my situation. I know what I just described is probably not how a "Christian wife" would handle the situation, but....I need to preserve the little self-esteem I had left.

 

I still consider myself a NICE person. I'm just a NICE person with self-esteem (and a potty mouth).

 

I hope this helps. Really. I feel your pain.

Edited February 16, 2011 by NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too
Addressing OPs Christian prespective..

[laundrycrisis]

ITA. In recent months' date=' I BLEW MY STACK over very similar behavior from a couple of members of my immediate family (dh and oldest).

 

When "I blew my stack" I let it all out.

 

I got in my dh's face and told him to "F-off" and that he's not "all that" to be talking to me like he was.

 

I told him, [b']"I love you, but I love me more and I'm not putting up with being treated like this. I deserve better."[/b]

 

We were upstairs and the kids probably heard every word (my oldest needed to hear it anyway as he was treating me poorly too).

 

Okay, I know this sounds bad. (Jerry Springer, anyone?). However, it was one of the happiest days in my marriage. My dh has shown me much more respect and appreciation since the blow up. We have had some very good, productive conversations since. My oldest has been very nice too....:D

 

I have found my backbone and used it to turn around my situation.

 

I hope this helps. Really. I feel your pain.

 

IMO it doesn't sound bad at all. It sounds exactly what is called for.

 

OP I hope you can get to the same point...those who are being disrespectful to you in your own home, who are ungrateful for all you do for them, have earned themselves an attitude adjustment.

[kamom]

Can you turn it around to "how would you feel if I said..so and so", and come up with a few lines? I do this with my DH when he has a hard time seeing how I feel. I come up with a situation that is similar and with something that I know he wouldn't appreciate. Unless he is very used to being disrespected this should work. Once you get him to see it from your perspective, this doesn't have to include him agreeing to change, but maybe to try better?

 

Once you laid that ground work with him. Do the same with the kiddos.

 

Model good behaviour with lots of upbuilding, encouraging words, for dh too!:grouphug::grouphug:

[Trish]

I do think this sounds like it happens frequently, so you need the availability of daily consequences. So instead of taking away a whole sports season (which is over and done with once you do it, but the backtalk/criticism from dc and still continue), just take away that day's rides, or whatever.

 

Also, I'd give them a chance to realize they made a mistake, and make a sincere apology. After all, it's about training them in new habits, not just punishment for punishment's sake. However, I would insist on that apology EACH and every time, and it had better sound sincere, not off-handed or perfunctory.

 

When my kids start getting mouthy we STOP whatever we are doing right in its tracks, and deal with THAT issue. Whether they have to go to their room, apologize, rephrase, whatever.

 

I don't let it go, because IMO that type of thing gets worse unless you nip it in the bud. Also, there are plenty of times when I have to apologize for something I've said because I've gotten angry and had an over the top reaction. So I do that too, because I want to model for them the behavior I want them to learn.

 

Apologize, rephrase, point out where I lost my temper etc.

[Brooketopia]

Are you critical of others? Do you use sarcasm when speaking to your children? When my kids start displaying negative behaviors, it's usually because I'm showing them how to do it.

 

I don't think my children are as old as yours, so my tactics may not work for you, but if I'm finding that one of my daughters is being too negative I nip it in the bud right away. It usually boils down to going into a time-out or needing to have a heart-to-heart talk (NOT in the heat of the moment...they'll feel cornered and will bring out the daggers in order to protect themselves).

 

The only way I'd consider not driving them to sports practice would be to tell them ahead of time that you're implementing new rules and what the consequences for those rules would be--like, "If you want to insult my driving, then I will stop driving you to your location and we will return home." They will test you, so be prepared to follow through, especially if it's inconvenient for you.

 

If you're worried about how it affects the team, remember that if your child knows upfront what the consequences of their behavior will be, then THEY ARE CHOOSING to let their team down, not you. I'd phone up the coach ahead of time and let him/her know what's going on...a good coach will understand why you're doing what you're doing and encourage what's best for your child's overall development. (At least, that's what I think a good coach should be like!)

 

Respect yourself, Woman! Don't turn into a snivelling victim when it happens, just calmly assert yourself and let them know that they are being rude when they speak to you like that and that you don't appreciate it.

 

And don't try to get back at them or hold grudges or bring up their past indiscretions after they've done what they can do to make things better again. Show an increase of love...if your kids are teenagers, they're probably testing your level of devotion as well. Let them see that you love them no matter what, but that you also are a person that requires to be treated politely.

[elegantlion]

ITA. In recent months' date=' I BLEW MY STACK over very similar behavior from a couple of members of my immediate family (dh and oldest).

 

When "I blew my stack" I let it all out.

 

I got in my dh's face and told him to "F-off" and that he's not "all that" to be talking to me like he was.

 

I told him, "I love you, but I love me more and I'm not putting up with being treated like this. I deserve better."

 

We were upstairs and the kids probably heard every word (my oldest needed to hear it anyway as he was treating me poorly too).

 

Okay, I know this sounds bad. (Jerry Springer, anyone?). However, it was one of the happiest days in my marriage. My dh has shown me much more respect and appreciation since the blow up. We have had some very good, productive conversations since. My oldest has been very nice too....:D

 

I have found my backbone and used it to turn around my situation. I know what I just described is probably not how a "Christian wife" would handle the situation, but....I need to preserve the little self-esteem I had left.

 

I still consider myself a NICE person. I'm just a NICE person with self-esteem (and a potty mouth).

 

I hope this helps. Really. I feel your pain.[/quote']

:iagree:

 

I may be way off base here but it's possible your dds may be joining in the criticism because they see dh treating you that way and don't want to become the object of HIS criticism.

 

Not questions you need to answer here, but how is their relationship with your dh? Do they gang up on you or are they secretly afraid of him?

 

I really believe that in order to earn your dds respect you're going to have to stand up to your dh. I have no suggestions on how to do that. :grouphug:

[Hannah]

I do think this sounds like it happens frequently, so you need the availability of daily consequences. So instead of taking away a whole sports season (which is over and done with once you do it, but the backtalk/criticism from dc still continue), just take away that day's rides, or whatever.

 

I would either call a family meeting, or, sit with them one on one, and explain exactly what you've told us.

 

My feeling is, because this is a "habit," I would allow them ONE remark of that sort per day -- at which point I would issue a warning, and then any further remark of that kind on that day would result in an AUTOMATIC loss of (whatever). Can't go to sports. Can't use the cell. Can't watch TV. Or all three.

 

:iagree:

 

And after the first warning for the day, I wouldn't even go into any kind of discussion about it. When the time comes to go to sports, I'd be busy with something else. If they ask about leaving, I'd very matter of factly tell them that unfortunately they'd lost that privilege. Just a fact of life, with no need for discussion.

 

You say that the sports association is made up of a number of close families. Would you be comfortable with having a word with the coach and a few parents you are close with to inform them that you are going to be using withdrawal of lifts to sport as a discipline tool?

 

I don't know how far away from sports you live (or if it would be safe for them to go alone), but if it is important enough for them not to disappoint their team members, they'll make a plan to get to sports if they have to.

[JennyD]

I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. This sounds like a very unpleasant environment.

 

The only thing I wanted to add is that I completely agree with the above poster who emphasized that your kids' participation on their teams is their responsibility, not yours. It is perfectly reasonable for you to say that if you mouth off to me, I am not driving you to practice. And if they then miss practice because they are rude to you, THEY are letting down the rest of the team,not you. (And I also agree that you need repeatable consequences, so the driving thing would likely be more effective than the one-time refusal to sign them up for the season.)

 

If you yell at the bus driver and the driver throws you off, the fact that you miss work is your problem, not the driver's.

 

Strength to you.

Edited February 16, 2011 by JennyD

[Sonshine]

Mrs. Brooke - No, I do not speak to them sarcastically, or any any other inappropriate or unkind way.

 

Husband does better with curtailing his critical behavior when he has consequences - he does not respond to rational appeals - makes it worse in fact.

[Kathleen in VA]

Sonshine, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. The first ten years of my marriage were very difficult because neither my husband nor I had learned how to speak kindly to each other. We came from dysfunctional backgrounds and it took a long time to work out a way of communicating that was not damaging to one or the other of us. It hurt a great deal a lot of the time and I spent a lot of time crying out to the Lord to please help us. I so relate to how you are feeling.:grouphug:

 

Fwiw, I think your children are not entirely to blame here. They are following your dh's lead and are probably conflicted about it at times. I realize they are old enough to take responsibility for their own actions, but they really are being taught by him to behave badly. Before I started bringing down the hammer, I would sit down with each of them individually and explain that although it appears that this kind of behavior is acceptable (since dh condones it), it is not biblical and is a sin in God's eyes. Tell them that you understand they may be confused since their dad seems to think it is ok to talk like this, but that, no, it is really a sin and they need to work on stopping. Then, if they continue to speak disrespectfully, I would institute some of the consequences others have mentioned here. You might point out that according to Old Testament law disrespectful children could be stoned to death - just to emphasize how seriously God thinks this kind of behavior is. There is also a verse in the New Testament that lists several kinds of people who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven and "disobedient to parents" is on the list. If any of them have a conscience toward God, this may be enough to set them straight. However, as others have said, they have formed a habit - a habit that your dh has encouraged - so it will be very hard for them to change.

 

We have a rule in our house about language that I got from a book by Amy Carmichael. I'm not sure if she made it up or got it from another person. In any case, here it is:

 

Before I speak: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

 

I made a poster with this on it and taped it up on the wall in the kitchen near our table so it would be seen a lot. I also posted it on the back of the kids' bathroom door. It may not seem like much, but it is there as a constant reminder of what the standard is, even if they don't always meet it. It pricks their consciences each time they see it. (It pricks mine as well, btw.)

 

I also made a little poster with the verse that says "Let no unwholesome communication proceed from your mouth but only that which is edifying to the hearer." That's my quick paraphrase and I don't know the reference off hand.

 

Judging from what you have said about your dh, I wonder if he is actually a Christian. I can't imagine a true believer thinking this kind of speech is acceptable. But, if he grew up with this kind of criticism during his childhood, then he is probably just oblivious to the damage he is doing. The only appeal that could work with him would be to take him to scripture and point out that his speech dishonors God. If that has no effect, then I would venture to say he is not really saved - he is a Christian in name only. If that is the case, there really isn't anything you can say to him that will effect a change. You must pray earnestly for him. Hudson Taylor said, "If you seek to change a man, do it through prayer." (Just want to add, only God can truly know your dh's heart, but it would be better for you to assume he is not a Christian because then your expectations for his behavior would be significantly lower and you would have more compassion for him. He may be a Christian - just a very immature one - and that would be wonderful. But it would be better for you if you stopped expecting him to behave like one and just prayed for God to open his eyes and save him. Does that make sense?)

 

You have no control over others - you are responsible for your own responses to their bad behavior however. Just keep doing what you know is right before God. You are accountable to Him. Look to Him for your acceptance and love. Even if your dh and children were models of perfection, you should still be deriving your joy from your relationship with God. I know that when I was struggling with this, my prayer life became my lifeline. I grew very close to my Savior. Just keep thinking that your self-worth is not tied to your family but to your God. God loves you, accepts you, forgives your shortcomings, all because of His dear Son. You can rest in that and get your joy and satisfaction from being in Christ - beloved of God.

 

As far as actually interacting with your family, I would do my best to model the behavior I desire of them. When reviled, I would not revile back (just like Jesus). Prov. 31 says "The law of kindness is on her tongue" (again, my quick paraphrase). I would pray and ask God to give me the grace to speak kindly even when I am not treated well. Of course, this is terribly difficult - it can only be done with God's help.

 

This is a very difficult situation and I'm sorry you are dealing with it. But, it is also an opportunity to preach Christ by your behavior - to be a living episitle of Christ's love. Jesus was rejected, treated badly, reviled, etc. and he did not respond in kind. He prayed for his tormentors. This trial has the potential of growing you spritually in ways no other could.

 

When I was struggling during those ten years, I prayed constantly, sang hymns that I found particularly comforting (Be Still, My Soul; Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus; What a Friend we Have in Jesus, for example) and devoured scripture. I grew a lot in those years.

 

I know it does not seem fair - it really isn't. But since you cannot control others, you must do your best to control yourself. Do not let this defeat you. Turn it into an opportunity to grow close to your Savior and to learn how to do right and good in the face of severe heartache.

 

I just reread what I typed, and I fear that I sound unfeeling and trite. Please know that my heart breaks for you - you are going through a very rough trial. Please also know that I can truly relate and I know it hurts excrutiatingly to be treated like this. I hope my words are a help and not an irritation.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Sonshine]

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Everyone has made some helpful comments.

 

To make it clearer - these are not deep criticisms - just like picking on me often with teenage girl type criticisms. Someone with a different personality may consider it banter and handle it with bantering back. It's like they know where I have drawn the line and don't go past that. I think I need to draw the line much closer. Even if they are not deep criticisms they are criticisms and it has gotten to me.

 

My kids are not afraid of my husband. He wants to be liked by the kids so he doesn't interact with them the way he does with me. He does convey an aura that they wouldn't mess with him the way they mess with me. So maybe there is a little of what you are talking about there, but I don't think that's the root of it.

 

Teenage girls like to think they know everything and their mothers don't. In a sinful, selfish way it's fun to put others down. When dad sits there, doesn't stop it, and adds just enough to give the idea that it's cool to put down mom, well - you have a family sport of it. Everyone laughs when reminded of the time mom did this - on and on and on with commentary on how I have the fault linked with the incidents mentioned. Yes, this happens daily.

 

I do think I will ask them how they would feel if I constantly made fun of their ability in their sport - they are the least skilled players on their team, so they can't claim not to care because they know they are good.

 

Husband does occasionally respond to me asking him how he would feel if I was treating him similarly and put the situation into the context of his world. I may try that - will have to think about it.

 

I think for now, I may take away privileges like the cell phone. I will give them warning that for the next sport season, I will not be driving them that day or the next day, etc. if they have been unkind to me. Then they can decide if they want to play or not. The next sport season, I am not so close to the coaches, other families, etc, so it will be a good time to start this. If they can't get their act together for that season, then it would really pain them to miss their favorite sport which starts up again in the fall.

[Joanne]

I think that your family might have normalized behavior that is beyond normal. For example, you keep mentioning "teens" being "teen" critical but what I am reading is beyond that.

 

Your husband's behavior normalizes your teen's behavior. You will be limited, therefore, in applying discipline for them.

 

Until/unless you are ready and willing to take a firm stand FOR YOU against your DH's behavior, your ability to teach and discipline your children in this regard is limited.

 

You've decided that counseling won't help and you aren't (it seems) going to end the official marriage. That limits your choices and power to very few.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

Judging from what you have said about your dh, I wonder if he is actually a Christian. I can't imagine a true believer thinking this kind of speech is acceptable. But, if he grew up with this kind of criticism during his childhood, then he is probably just oblivious to the damage he is doing. The only appeal that could work with him would be to take him to scripture and point out that his speech dishonors God.

 

There is this German-American tendency (I am German-American myself) to find virtue in speaking the truth--even the HARD truth. This can translate into pretty serious meanness--which you correctly point out is sinful. But it is meanness that feels like positive virtue to the speaker, if they are raised that way. In that mode of operation, kindness about things that are not quite right can seem hypocritical, and therefore dishonest/sinful. So. I would not go so far as to question his salvation over this, but rather would present alternatives and the Biblical case for kindness and respect, which is undertaught/underemphasized in those circles. I would add that it is also a tendency to find virtue in admitting fault and asking for forgiveness, so an approach that lands there is somewhat likely to be successful. Habitual sins are hard to let go, because people don't know what to do instead, and they seem so 'natural'. But let them go we must, as Christians.

[Sonshine]

Thank you Joanne and Kathleen.

 

Kathleen - the spiritual guidance is great. You specifically mentioned some ways to draw closer to God and feel His comfort. I will do that.

 

Joanne - I can't comment much more without getting this thread thrown off. Thank you for your insight.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would add that my DH is classically permissive--lets things go and then gets mad when pressed very far or personally inconvenienced. As DD has gotten less respectful in her teens, I have called her on being disrespectful to him. "No, this is unacceptable, do not talk with your father that way." Because I have done that, I have been able to say to him, "Why are you letting her talk to me that way in your presence? I don't let her do that to you. We need to be on the same page. If her speech is acceptable to you, then please take me aside and tell me that I am overreacting and why you think so. If it's not, then you need to tell her that sometimes, so that she sees that you are disturbed by it, not just me." This has actually worked, a bit. Every once in a while he will say something mildly disapproving, on his own, to disrespectful speech.

 

The other thing I do is that I talk with DD about how even if she is hormonal, she can control what she says, and that she needs to take care to do that.

 

When we had less stressful lives, it was easier for me to remember the 9 good things out of 10 rule as well. I know that I'm not doing as well in that area as I could. Kathleen has good counsel about modelling the behavior that you want to see, although I do think that it's also necessary to both pray and stand up for yourself.

[Sonshine]

Carol in Calif - wow - someone else knows what I am talking about and can explain it to me about the German personality trait. I am thinking maybe if I apply the carrot and the stick - consequences for unkindness and rewards for kindness, with much talk about what the Bible says, quoting specific verses about loving one another. Emphasizing all of loving one another with our words, not just them loving me. Maybe it's easier to replace an old habit with a new habit. Also, I can reward positive verbal behavior with taking the kids to get a treat, etc.

[AprilTN]

Growing up, my family got into a bad habit of being critical of my mom. She was such an easy target because things would seem to happen to her or she would do things that just begged for a joke or a snide comment. I say it was a habit because we didn't do that to other people, just her.

 

She put up with it for years, then one day she just said enough was enough. After that, when we would say something critical or make jokes about her, she would say that it was hurtful, and sometimes she would walk out of the room. My mom was very calm and didn't get angry, didn't lecture, but her taking her presence from us was somehow enough for us to realize we were hurting her. After she did that for a while, we really began to filter our comments and respect her more. The good thing was that my dad really changed and became more protective of her.

 

We are still able to laugh at the dumb things we do, but we are more careful about taking it too far.