Has anyone here actually read the Chua's book "Battle Hymn of a Tiger Mother"?

Janie · January 17, 2011

Is it worth the read?

I was interested, still am --kind of--, but after reading a number of articles and listening to her interview on the Diane Rehm show, I'm not sure how much more there would be to the book.

If you've read it, please let me know if it's worth the read.

Thanks!

deacongirl · January 17, 2011

I liked Lisa Belkin's take on her on the Motherlode blog at the NYT. There are lots of interesting comments over there too. I don't have the impression that it would be worth buying the book--and I won't because I don't think she should have written it while her daughters are still so young. I can't imagine subjecting my children to this scrutiny at their ages.

Also, I have to say I was disappointed in Diane's interview.

Janie · January 17, 2011

My first, and last, impression of her on DR's show was that she talks too much. And she likes to talk. I was a bit put off because of that.

You have a good point about her writing the book while her girls are still young.

Jean in Newcastle · January 17, 2011

Someone here was reading it and referenced it in the other mammoth thread. . .

LibraryLover · January 17, 2011

I really wanted to like her. However, the NPR interview annoyed the heck out of me. She was backtracking like crazy. I wanted to say 'Own it. A lot of people agree with you. Let the cuddly moms like me have our 'underachievers'." ;) Plenty of us are not engaged in 'Outcome- based' parenting. Harvard is not our goal.

Edited January 17, 2011 by LibraryLover

Georgiana Daniels · January 17, 2011

I read it and enjoyed it. I'll probably blog on it on Wednesday.

In the book she doesn't come across like she does in the article. Actually, some of it was humorous and self-depricating. It's a story about her journey as a parent and how she started isn't necessarily how she ended.

On the whole, I agree with some of her premises, but I disagree with her methods. Still, I think there were some things I could learn from reading it and it caused me to examine some of my own thinking.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Georgiana D
grammar--I stink at it

MomOfOneFunOne · January 17, 2011

I really wanted to like her. However, the NPR interview annoyed the heck out of me. She was backtracking like crazy. I wanted to say 'Own it. A lot of people agree with you. Let the cuddly moms like me have our 'underachievers'." ;) Plenty of us are not engaged in 'Outcome- based' parenting. Harvard is not our goal.

Ugh, I felt the same way. I didn't hear all of the interview b/c I kept getting so disgusted with her backtracking. Oh, it was just tongue in cheek . . . that's just the stereotype, I wasn't THAT strict . . . blah, blah, blah.

And, bless her heart, she kept misspeaking. I'm sure she was nervous but when she said her baby kicked a lot in vitro . . . :lol: I turned it off.

Shifra · January 17, 2011

So, Janie, LibraryLover, and MomOfOne,

What was it that you guys did not like of Ms. Chua's interview on the Diane Rehm show? I only heard the last 10-15 minutes, but I am curious about your takes on the interview.

Janie · January 17, 2011

Like I said, she seemed to want to do all the talking. Too much so. In fact, she seemed to roll over Diane as she asked, or tried to ask, some questions. Interrupted, and rather monopolized the interview even though it was about her, if you know what I mean. I also thought she did some backtracking. I guess that I was a bit put off considering that I thought her trained profession would have made her a better speaker.

I wanted to read the book . . . until I heard the interview. Maybe she made me think that she was really full of herself.

~Just my take on it . . .

MomOfOneFunOne · January 17, 2011

Really, it's what I said. Please remember, though, that I didn't listen to the whole thing.

Maybe I liked what she had to say in the article. I think she's a bit over the top for me but I am strict and have high expectations. It's nice to hear from someone else who feels much the same way. Then in the interview, she just disowned so much of it. Weeeelll, I'm not really that strict and awwww that was just tongue in cheek. Stuff like that.

I thought I'd be hearing something like the article. I was strict and had high expectations for my girls; it was hard but I stuck to it; and now my girls are happy, well adjusted, fulfulled young women. But no, she just seemed to throw everything she felt was strict and exacting from said cultures but then didn't want all of it to stick to her. Maybe she got enough negative feedback that it made her want to backtrack.

So, you wouldn't be the author in question would you? If so, I'm sorry for my negative review of your interview.;)

I won't be too negative on her (lack of) charismatic speaking ability. She wasn't much of a spkr. She spoke too quickly, misspoke often, and disowned her purported writing -- which I haven't read. If it were me, I'd ramble, speak too quickly, and make a fool of myself. So, I'll go easy there but just denying what she wrote turned me off.

And remember, I didn't listen to the entire interview.

eta: I agree with Janie, I might have read the book if I hadn't heard the interview. And just to clarify, I read the article and listened to part of the interview. I haven't read the book.

Edited January 17, 2011 by MomOfOneFunOne

Caraway · January 19, 2011

I read the book and enjoyed it. To some extent I think that Chua has gotten wrapped up in a media message that was not entirely her own.

I think of my own father. He is an amazing man, and father, but when I tell stories about him, sometimes people REALLY don't get him. He comes across sounding different than he is... because you are hearing a part, and not knowing the whole.

I think Chua is similar. Although, she is no wimpy mom.

There were parts of the book that I really identified with as a homeschooler. There were other parts of her parenting style that I do not practice or believe to be healthy (like shaming).

I would be happy to post more, if people are interested in discussing the book. ;)

Edited January 19, 2011 by Caraway

Papillon Mom · January 28, 2011

I read the book and enjoyed it immensley. I don't think it is fair to avoid the book because of an interview performance. In the book she tells about several times when she flubbed interviews or made poor impressions because of nervousness. I think she was always trying to help her children even if she was cruel in her approach. Her kids seem pleased with how they turned out. I think she regrets her many mistakes and has learned from them and I got the impression that theirs is a strong family bond, with baggage, yes... That's how she had so much stuff to put in her book.

I'm not a Tiger Mom, maybe a bobcat mom.

Take Care,

Amanda

deacongirl · January 28, 2011

But, her kids haven't "turned out"--they are only I believe 14 and 18. I think the comments here by adults raised in this way tell a very different story:

http://bettymingliu.com/2011/01/parents-like-amy-chua-are-the-reason-why-asian-americans-like-me-are-in-therapy/#comments

Sugarfoot · January 28, 2011

I just finished the book, and while I thought it was very well-written, and she seemed really open and honest about her parenting, a lot of it left me feeling really...uneasy? I tried to be really open-minded about how the cultural aspects of her own upbringing affected what she did with her own daughters, but wow, some of those situations she wrote about made me feel almost sickened, and I kept thinking, "Why?" "What exactly is the ultimate point of going to this extreme?"

If I tell my children that I'd like them to learn or do something that other children don't necessarily do, which, as homeschoolers, wouldn't be unusual, I don't mind explaining my reasons to them. But those reasons AREN'T about being better than other people. I guess that's what got to me---the constant judging of everyone else.

It actually was an enjoyable book, and parts of it will likely stick with me for quite awhile.;)

Mary in VA · January 28, 2011

Haven't actually read the book, but there was an interesting article in the Washington Times the other day about Tiger Mothers vs " Lion Fathers" as the article dubbed them

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/25/roar-of-the-lion-father/

Mary

MomOfOneFunOne · January 28, 2011

I read the book and enjoyed it immensley. I don't think it is fair to avoid the book because of an interview performance. In the book she tells about several times when she flubbed interviews or made poor impressions because of nervousness. I think she was always trying to help her children even if she was cruel in her approach. Her kids seem pleased with how they turned out. I think she regrets her many mistakes and has learned from them and I got the impression that theirs is a strong family bond, with baggage, yes... That's how she had so much stuff to put in her book.
I'm not a Tiger Mom, maybe a bobcat mom.

Take Care,

Amanda

I didn't shun the book b/c of the interview performance. I chuckled but the signs of nervousness didn't turn me off.

She denied it. She kept saying, "oh, that was just tongue in cheek." or "Well, I didn't actually do *that*" or "Well, I didn't mean that."

I could tell she was nervous and kept misspeaking, et c. I couldn't hold that against her. I'm sure I would do the same in an interview. What was a turn off what not standing by what she wrote.

mom2a&z · January 28, 2011

I just finished the book and really enjoyed it. In the beginning she does come across as intense and sometimes "cruel", but her intentions were in the right place. She also modifies her parenting style for her second child when she finally comes to the realization that what she was doing wasn't working.

The book made me reflect on how I raise my children. Do I expect less from them because they are just kids? Do I push them enough so that they can excel at something that might have been hard at first?

She had an extreme parenting style that I would not want to emulate, but that doesn't mean that there weren't some nuggets of truth that I might want to think twice about.

Pink Fairy · January 28, 2011

I read it, and thought it was great. She uses irony and subtle sarcasm to demonstrate her awareness of her own hypocrisy and ridiculousness.

She's not a great mom, but she's not a horrible mom either. Overall, a very enjoyable read.

Classical Country Mama · January 28, 2011

I love the book. Amy Chua is honest, hilarious, and VERY self-deprecatory, which is one of my favorite things. :D

Her methodologies certainly differ from mine, but that's something I genuinely appreciate about the book. I'm glad for the opportunity to see someone else's rationale and approach, as well as to catch a glimpse of how her approach is playing out now. She is brutally honest, for example, regarding her techniques' failure with her youngest daughter, who has rebelled against everything she (Amy Chua) was trying to impress on her girls.

A good and useful read, and a book I will recommend to others.

Ginevra · January 29, 2011

I am in the midst of reading this book right now.

I do enjoy the book. I would echo what others have said in that I do not agree with some of her methods or her extreme lengths, but I do agree with her underlying philosophy. I do believe things such as "what makes an activity enjoyable is doing it well, but to do it well, you first have to practice and that is hard" or however she said it exactly. I would never go to the lengths that she went to, for example, to make sure the kids practiced violin and piano for two hours a day while vacationing in Italy. But I am not afraid to require that my children do practice the piano.

The "birthday card incident" is by far, the most appalling thing she talks about. I would never do something so cruel. But, I would not be totally beyond calling out a child who did not put forth the effort that they were capable of; I would just use a waaaayyyy more toned-down version. It's within the realm of possibility that I would say, "Now, KG, I know that you can draw a far better picture than this and TBH, this card does not make me feel that you care much about my birthday." However, I have never been in the position of my children putting so little effort in.

Classical Country Mama · January 29, 2011

The "birthday card incident" is by far, the most appalling thing she talks about. I would never do something so cruel.

:iagree:

This story did make me shudder, although the underlying principle (as you said) is sound. A friend and I discussed this very incident and agreed we would firmly intervene if the kids attempted to pass sloppy work off as a gift to someone else--but we would not say anything if it was our own birthday.

deacongirl · January 30, 2011

Another article on Amy Chua's book:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2011/01/31/110131crbo_books_kolbert#ixzz1C6CSPqiS

Osmosis Mom · February 2, 2012

I am in the midst of reading this book right now.

I do enjoy the book. I would echo what others have said in that I do not agree with some of her methods or her extreme lengths, but I do agree with her underlying philosophy. I do believe things such as "what makes an activity enjoyable is doing it well, but to do it well, you first have to practice and that is hard" or however she said it exactly. I would never go to the lengths that she went to, for example, to make sure the kids practiced violin and piano for two hours a day while vacationing in Italy. But I am not afraid to require that my children do practice the piano.

The "birthday card incident" is by far, the most appalling thing she talks about. I would never do something so cruel. But, I would not be totally beyond calling out a child who did not put forth the effort that they were capable of; I would just use a waaaayyyy more toned-down version. It's within the realm of possibility that I would say, "Now, KG, I know that you can draw a far better picture than this and TBH, this card does not make me feel that you care much about my birthday." However, I have never been in the position of my children putting so little effort in.

I realize this is an old thread, but I am just now reading her books -and really love it! I have been a mean mom and done mean things, although not with academic rigour in mind, but more character development, and I was re-affirmed that my kids don't have to like me, hehe, growing up.

About the birth day card, then, yes, I have done such a thing and would do it again. It is not a matter of being insensitive as a mother, but for the mother sending the message that, hey, it matters to me that you spend a few minutes making something thoughtful for me. I a still hurt by the expensive card one of my kids bought me for a recent birthday, but for which she did not spend the time to write something thoughtful and instead filled it with non-sense. While I did not comment on it, then I feel resentment about it and I think this is what Chua is getting at. I have still criticized cards made, for myself or others in the family, I know I have. Giving cards to eachother is something my kids love to do, so they should know also that we appreciate the effort of the card.

I liked it in the book when she says something about the confidence of her daughter performing while she herself would never have the guts. Isn't this in itself the epitome of motherhood, that you enable and encourage your child to outdo you? I know I have high expectations of my kids and it pleases me to no end when I have pushed them to excel or perform at a level I would not myself be able to.

All this said, then I do think it is extreme and at a loss to have a child practice for 6 hours a day. I was horrified to read about how she on vacations and trips would sabotage everything to get practice in. Practice and public image did seem to become objects of worship, way surpassing wanting to push and see your child excel.

eternalknot · February 2, 2012

But, her kids haven't "turned out"--they are only I believe 14 and 18. I think the comments here by adults raised in this way tell a very different story:
http://bettymingliu.com/2011/01/parents-like-amy-chua-are-the-reason-why-asian-americans-like-me-are-in-therapy/#comments

I haven't read the book or heard any of Chua's interviews. I did read the one (was it WSJ?) article linked here awhile back, and then also the article linked above (which I'll comment on below).

As immigrant children, most know our parents aren't perfect but we acknolwedge that they're also at a challenging place trying to raise children in one culture whilst living amongst another. They do all they know how to do, with the added difficulty of actively clashing against the different and unfamiliar culture their children are exposed to daily.

They fail. They're human. All parents fail their kids in some fashion or another (so most kids would say), but it doesn't have to 'damage' the relationship to the point of requiring an outsider's assistance to 'get over it' or past it. Most of us recognize the experience for what it was (to our parents, to us), and move on with life.

Children (of immigrants) who were born here, or are just unaware -by parent choice or the child's own disinterest- are the ones who have the most problem with Chua's brand of parenting. They're the ones 'in therapy' as Mingliu says. They're the ones holding their Asian parents to ideals of American parenting, needing American validation (therapy) to 'overcome' it.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, ... who among us of any parentage doesn't think our parents could have done differently? ... but what's annoying is they don't see that in their fight against the reverse (Asian parents holding their 'American' kids to ideals of Asian parenting) they're essentially continuing the pattern.

This hypocrisy seems lost on so many. I see Mingliu's point, but despite her racial designation she's a cultural American. That's the issue here: clashing cultures. Not the typical me/them parent vs. child dynamics. She makes up a small but vocal minority of people that have grown up in the same kind of family and community. Most of us put a period on it, and move on.

lakerks · February 2, 2012

Yes, I read the book and enjoyed it. Very interesting autobiographical look at the relationship between the mother and her daughters, informing readers "how that worked out" for them.

(Totally unfamiliar with the referenced interview.)

Beth S · February 2, 2012

I borrowed it from the library, and had read the WTM discussions about it.

So I jumped to the Epilogue, and thought it was a fairly balanced assessment--including her daughters' input at the moment she was writing.

To me, there is just so much more to parenting than achievement! HOWEVER, striving for achievement is an essential part of parenting our children.

And it's a reminder of how vastly different various cultures are--let's hope we can take advantage of the "meat" and spit out the "bones".

(And hopefully her daughters can achieve some time of privacy in their future lives. I was also disappointed that the husband seemed to have little impact on this whole situation.)

LibraryLover · February 2, 2012

I know it's an old thread. I did read the book, and so did my 17 yr old son. Although he was appalled at times, He liked it, and even thought she got a bad spin in the media. I didn't enjoy it, I thought it was painful, even though she made me chuckle a few times. It's not very deep, however, not terribly introspective. She got that she was tough, learned a lot about herself, she says, and she clearly adores her kids. Her oldest is currently at Yale or Harvard, I can't remember which. I still don't think the main parenting goal should be getting a child into a an Ivy, and I don't want to discuss 'rigor'. ;)

Edited February 5, 2012 by LibraryLover

Jenny in Florida · February 2, 2012

I read it. There were a few sections that made me uncomfortable (like the famous piano practice incident). But, over all, I understood and appreciated the author's point of view.

It might also be worth mentioning, for those who haven't read it, that the storyline of the book really focuses on the mother's softening. In the end, she learns that her approach works fine for some kids, but not for others.

Mothersweets · February 2, 2012

I've read the book. It was worth reading whether you agree with her or not (or partly :)).

I liked the book BUT I think she and her husband were (are?) very wrong in the extremes they go to in pushing their daughters.

The book made me realize that I have been letting my kids get away with only putting forth minimum effort in their schoolwork and they are capable of much more.

stripe · February 2, 2012

I liked the book BUT I think she and her husband were (are?) very wrong in the extremes they go to in pushing their daughters.

I found her husband to be remarkably absent from the book. She informed him that her kids would be raised her way. He meekly protested a few times but otherwise appeared to do very little.

LibraryLover · February 2, 2012

Not sure where I read it, but she had more of her husband in the book at first, but he objected, so they were cut. I think it might be worth a read because it's now part of pop culture. I've heard Tiger Mom referenced frequently; in articles, even in TV sitcoms. OTOH, if you already know what Tiger Mom means, you don't need to read it. I don't think it's 'deep'. I'd not buy it's, as it's not a 'keeper', or one you need to mark up in the margins. Borrow it from the library.

Edited February 2, 2012 by LibraryLover

Maus · February 2, 2012

I've read the book. It was worth reading whether you agree with her or not (or partly :)).

I liked the book BUT I think she and her husband were (are?) very wrong in the extremes they go to in pushing their daughters.

The book made me realize that I have been letting my kids get away with only putting forth minimum effort in their schoolwork and they are capable of much more.

That's very similar to my reaction. I thought she crossed over into abusive before the light dawned.

But the insight that you can't parent every child exactly the same way was good.

And I've decided I need to step up my expectations for my kids, or at least their awareness of my expectations :D . Not to her extreme, but more than what their peers are getting.

MeaganS · February 2, 2012

I read more than half of it before it had to be returned to the library. I found it interesting, and I did enjoy her sense of humor. It gave me food for thought, and although I don't agree with her on a wide range of issues, I thought it was a worthy read. I wouldn't pay money for it, though.

mommymilkies · February 2, 2012

It horrified me. I started reading it and got about 1/3 way through before I couldn't take it anymore. That's one I won't pick back up. *shudder*

Georgiana Daniels · February 2, 2012

I realize this is an old thread, but I am just now reading her books -and really love it! I have been a mean mom and done mean things, although not with academic rigour in mind, but more character development, and I was re-affirmed that my kids don't have to like me, hehe, growing up.

About the birth day card, then, yes, I have done such a thing and would do it again. It is not a matter of being insensitive as a mother, but for the mother sending the message that, hey, it matters to me that you spend a few minutes making something thoughtful for me. I a still hurt by the expensive card one of my kids bought me for a recent birthday, but for which she did not spend the time to write something thoughtful and instead filled it with non-sense. While I did not comment on it, then I feel resentment about it and I think this is what Chua is getting at. I have still criticized cards made, for myself or others in the family, I know I have. Giving cards to eachother is something my kids love to do, so they should know also that we appreciate the effort of the card.

I liked it in the book when she says something about the confidence of her daughter performing while she herself would never have the guts. Isn't this in itself the epitome of motherhood, that you enable and encourage your child to outdo you? I know I have high expectations of my kids and it pleases me to no end when I have pushed them to excel or perform at a level I would not myself be able to.

All this said, then I do think it is extreme and at a loss to have a child practice for 6 hours a day. I was horrified to read about how she on vacations and trips would sabotage everything to get practice in. Practice and public image did seem to become objects of worship, way surpassing wanting to push and see your child excel.

:iagree:The bolded expresses my thoughts exactly.

momacacia · February 2, 2012

Chua is coming to our library next week and I'm hoping to go hear her, and maybe ask a few questions. I listened to the audio book, which I should probably do again quick before her book signing.

I found the book interesting. Really just her personal parenting journey. I didn't feel it really gave me a good grasp of what Asian parenting is really like, but just some glimpses. I'm ver curious what she has to say now that the book has been out for a while.

stripe · February 2, 2012

She has said many times that she changed.

She also told Diane Rehm:

11:13:58

I believe that there are many ways of being a good parent. You know, my own husband was raised in an extremely liberal, loving, permissive home, pretty much the opposite of mine and he came out great. You know, he just loves his parents, loves his family, self-motivated, but I think that I came out okay, too. So I feel like there are different ways to end up in a good spot. So this is something that's important for me to stress, my book is not a how-to guide.

It's really not saying that the Chinese way is better. In fact, by the time you get to the end of the book, you realize that I -- in the end, I think that probably some hybrid is better.

first of all, I want to point out that a lot of the book is kind of ironic and I've always loved books with unreliable narrators, so I think you have to read between the lines. But if you notice, I'm putting that line in my daughter's mouth. You know, she's reporting what I threatened, so she's a huge personality. But yes, I stand by that. There's some moments that I'm not so proud of and, you know, part of the book is making fun of these moments where I'm in a frenzy, hauling off my other daughter's dollhouse, threatening to donate it to the Salvation Army if she doesn't get this, you know, piano piece right.

REHM