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I just wanted to say thanks for being such great friends!


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This board has really helped me that last couple of days. I don't really have anyone in "real life" to talk to, and though I do think counseling would be a good idea, it is expensive. We went to about eight sessions together just to try to help things in general, but my husband didn't think it was very effective or worth the money, so I hesitate to ask for counseling. He also disliked how the counselor always seemed to be on my side. We probably should have chosen a male counselor.

 

So, I copied and pasted everyone's comments so that I can reread them. They were very encouraging.

 

It's hard because he is really great in all other ways.

 

But, the point of this is, thank you for being my friend when I needed one. You honestly don't know how much it means to me -- each and every one of you.

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This board has really helped me that last couple of days. I don't really have anyone in "real life" to talk to, and though I do think counseling would be a good idea, it is expensive. We went to about eight sessions together just to try to help things in general, but my husband didn't think it was very effective or worth the money, so I hesitate to ask for counseling. He also disliked how the counselor always seemed to be on my side. We probably should have chosen a male counselor.

 

So, I copied and pasted everyone's comments so that I can reread them. They were very encouraging.

 

It's hard because he is really great in all other ways.

 

But, the point of this is, thank you for being my friend when I needed one. You honestly don't know how much it means to me -- each and every one of you.

 

:grouphug: Dawn, you are such a sweet lady. Sweet, pretty, and I would kill for your hair!

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I don't really have anyone in "real life" to talk to, and though I do think counseling would be a good idea, it is expensive. We went to about eight sessions together just to try to help things in general, but my husband didn't think it was very effective or worth the money,

 

FYI, I think this is rather typical. Having cared for a lot of unhappy people, IME, husbands don't want to go to counseling unless they genuinely feel they are going to lose a marriage they don't want to....usually after behaving very badly.

 

My husband and his 1st wife were in counseling for some time. He had no idea she was unhappy (I can believe this...he is rather thick-skulled). I asked him why they were in counseling for so long if there was no problem, he said "every couple we knew was in counseling and I thought it was just something everyone did." His sister noted that "the writing was on the wall" about the death of that marriage for years, to which I told her "yes, but remember: he has severe dyslexia." :lol:

 

I think of old Ben Franklin's saw about how a good husband is worth three times a good wife, because the rarer the object the more valuable.

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:grouphug: "...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things." Philippians 4:8

 

Praying you will be filled with peace and joy.

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You know, my dh was actually quite proactive in going, and I think it is because he truly cares. I am even quite sure tht it was he that mentioned it first. That's what blows my mind. He is always talking about how amazing I am and how much I mean to him. It's all so confusing. :confused:

 

FYI, I think this is rather typical. Having cared for a lot of unhappy people, IME, husbands don't want to go to counseling unless they genuinely feel they are going to lose a marriage they don't want to....usually after behaving very badly.

 

My husband and his 1st wife were in counseling for some time. He had no idea she was unhappy (I can believe this...he is rather thick-skulled). I asked him why they were in counseling for so long if there was no problem, he said "every couple we knew was in counseling and I thought it was just something everyone did." His sister noted that "the writing was on the wall" about the death of that marriage for years, to which I told her "yes, but remember: he has severe dyslexia." :lol:

 

I think of old Ben Franklin's saw about how a good husband is worth three times a good wife, because the rarer the object the more valuable.

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You know, my dh was actually quite proactive in going, and I think it is because he truly cares. I am even quite sure tht it was he that mentioned it first. That's what blows my mind. He is always talking about how amazing I am and how much I mean to him. It's all so confusing. :confused:

 

Some people are pathologically honest. Some people like people that way. My ex-husband couldn't take a negative word*. It upset him terribly. Current husband takes every opinion right on the chin (thick-chinned, too).

 

(*e.g a soft-spoken suggestion that his latest "best pal" was asking for quite a few loans, and might that be worrisome)

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I missed the other thread, but this one prompted me to go read it, and I want to comment on this:

My dh, on the other hand, is very envious that some guys are able to get the top of the ladder. He begrudges the fact that he could never get a cheerleader, for example. I don't understand that line of thinking, but I am trying to accept it as a man thing and move on.

 

This is sooooo not about you, honey!!! This is about a guy with deep deep insecurities that go waaay back to high school. This is a guy who's been trying since he was a teenager to prove to the world that he's really somebody, even if he was treated like a nobody in HS. Was he not athletic enough in a school where jocks got all the girls? Did he have bad skin or no muscles or was he overweight? Was he bullied? Whatever his chronological age, inside he's still a 16 yo with a huge chip on his shoulder, and I'm so sorry he's taking his bitterness out on you. Because, truly, it has nothing to do with you.

 

I feel sorry for your DH, too, because it must be awful to go through life being so bitter about something that's completely pointless and shallow. I'm sure deep down he knows it's indefensible, and that he's blaming you for things about himself that he really really doesn't want to deal with. The fact that he said you weren't much of a catch because the only one who wanted you was a 38 yo with a kid, is another way of saying "you must be a loser — because the only one who wanted you was another loser."

 

If I were you, I would do something that made me feel pretty (new outfit, some new make-up, or even just a long bubble bath and some nice scented lotion) and I'd flirt with the UPS guy and the guy in the post office, and I'd flirt at parties or whatever — not in a tarty way, but in a confident, bubbly, attractive way. Best case scenario is that your DH notices that other guys do in fact find you attractive, and even if he doesn't, it will at least remind you of how pretty and attractive you are!

 

Someone really ought to add a clause to the standard wedding vows: "I promise to love, honor, cherish... and act like a grown-up." :glare:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Jackie

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Dawn, I just read through the other thread (and my DH wants to know why I'm crying), and just wanted to say that you are a beautiful woman! Yours is one of the faces that I enjoy seeing when I come to the boards. I love your blog too, and have been a subscriber for months (even though I'm a negligent commenter)! I hope that everyone's comments have encouraged you and that you are able to recover from this hurt and continue to let your wonderful spirit shine through. :grouphug::grouphug:

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Coming in late to this discussion, I can only agree that your dh's comments stem from a deep insecurity with himself and overemphasis on looks.

You are a beautiful woman but I suppose no matter what it would never be good enough for him.

You mentioned counseling. You mentioned trying a male counselor. Yes, by all means find one and brace yourself when this male counselor straightens your dh out. Ideally, this counselor would dig deep and unearth all the "young boy being hurt" feelings that your dh has never processed.

 

I would ask him this: "If you got into some kind of accident and became disfigured, it would arguably be all right then for me to drop you since you could not possibly expect me to be married to a scarred, ugly man????

 

I have to go now before I write something that will get this thread closed.

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:grouphug: What a gracious lady you are, Dawn, beautiful in every way. You are on my heart a great deal lately.

 

(Speaking as a therapist here...) I would encourage you to attend counseling, even if your dh doesn't go. It will provide you some of the same support you are getting here and help you work through how to live in this marriage day to day and remain self-confident. Your dh doesn't have to attend counseling. He also doesn't have to understand your reasons for going, in my opinion. Although paying out of pocket for counseling can be expensive, there are many, many agencies and churches which offer a sliding fee scale. Your dh has evidently shut down about this issue (his refusal to talk about it), but his refusal to deal with it doesn't make it a non issue for you...so I encourage you to seek out the support you need. We are always here, of course, but I think you would feel even more supported by a female counselor IRL.:grouphug:

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You know, I didn't see your recent thread, but you have posted in past about similar behavior from your husband (regarding your weight, etc.). The counselor seemed to be on your side because your husband is the person who has the problems. He really does need counseling for himself.

 

I don't recall why your husband was alone with a child.... was he divorced? If so, why?

 

I'm afraid that I absolutely would not "flirt" in your situation, as I think his behavior makes it pretty clear that you could get yourself into a very abusive situation if he thought you were doing such a thing.... I believe that his put-downs are a way of trying to reign you in because he feels inferior. If you showed signs of exploring outside your family arena, those might become more severe....

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I don't recall why your husband was alone with a child.... was he divorced? If so, why?

 

 

 

His wife left with ds when he was four years old. They had shared custody, but she was to turn custody over when he turned 10. She turned him over when he was 7. She said she couldn't do it anymore. She thought he would have a better life with us -- it was clear that we were on our road to marriage. She then moved away. He doesn't really have a relationship with her.

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I'm afraid that I absolutely would not "flirt" in your situation, as I think his behavior makes it pretty clear that you could get yourself into a very abusive situation if he thought you were doing such a thing.... I believe that his put-downs are a way of trying to reign you in because he feels inferior. If you showed signs of exploring outside your family arena, those might become more severe....

 

I wouldn't. ;) But, I secretly enjoy knowing someone finds me attractive.

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I have a feeling if I asked him to go, he would agree. And, I'm sure he wouldn't tell me I couldn't go on my own. I do think it would be better if we could go together, because when I try to discuss it with him, he talks over me and throws these side arguments out in an attempt to divert the topic. He has a hard time just answering a question or clarifying something.

 

He did come up much later and say that he has never thought he settled with me, that what he meant was that Aaron, since he has so much going for him, could get the pick of the litter.

 

I do think he suffers from insecurities, though. Don't we all?

 

:grouphug: What a gracious lady you are, Dawn, beautiful in every way. You are on my heart a great deal lately.

 

(Speaking as a therapist here...) I would encourage you to attend counseling, even if your dh doesn't go. It will provide you some of the same support you are getting here and help you work through how to live in this marriage day to day and remain self-confident. Your dh doesn't have to attend counseling. He also doesn't have to understand your reasons for going, in my opinion. Although paying out of pocket for counseling can be expensive, there are many, many agencies and churches which offer a sliding fee scale. Your dh has evidently shut down about this issue (his refusal to talk about it), but his refusal to deal with it doesn't make it a non issue for you...so I encourage you to seek out the support you need. We are always here, of course, but I think you would feel even more supported by a female counselor IRL.:grouphug:

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Dawn, my ex put me down a LOT. I was "repulsive", "unattractive", "stupid", etc. My mother also did the same. It's hard to overcome that kind of negative input because it doesn't take long to start believing all that garbage.

 

I encourage you to seek counsel for yourself, just to help you not "wear" the negative things he says about your appearance (which, btw, is false! You are a beautiful woman). A good biblical counselor will help you see the truth about yourself (that you're not the negative things he says you are) and will help you understand his sinfulness. Not to excuse his behavior AT ALL, but I think once we understand the sinfulness of the one who hurts us, we can better deal with what's going on and not take as truth the things they say. That's been my experience, anyway.

 

:grouphug:

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I have a feeling if I asked him to go, he would agree. And, I'm sure he wouldn't tell me I couldn't go on my own. I do think it would be better if we could go together, because when I try to discuss it with him, he talks over me and throws these side arguments out in an attempt to divert the topic. He has a hard time just answering a question or clarifying something.

 

He did come up much later and say that he has never thought he settled with me, that what he meant was that Aaron, since he has so much going for him, could get the pick of the litter.

 

I do think he suffers from insecurities, though. Don't we all?

Maybe. Aaron is a good looking kid, no doubt about that. I wonder though if the message he is getting from his dad is that looks are all that's important. I would ask your dh if he would wish for Aaron to wind up in a marriage like he had the first time? I just think the more emphasis he tells Aaron (consciously or not) to place on physical beauty, the less likely he is to wind up with someone who truly loves him for who he is. We all have warts. Some more obvious than others, but we all have them. It sounds to me like your dh is definitely dealing with insecurity and jealousy. I think it's pretty normal to look at your handsome 20 year old with his whole life ahead of him and be jealous a little. Just like I get jealous a little when I see my 24 year old niece with a great body and hot boyfriend and free life. These are normal feelings. But for him to express it to you in the way he has is simply not nice. Making you feel inferior because he is aging and is no longer the roving 20 year old is not fair and should not be tolerated. Counseling sounds like a really, really good idea. This is about him, not you. But I am still sorry that you have to be made to feel ugly. You are so pretty! And those curls! :svengo::D

 

:grouphug:

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:iagree: I always enjoy seeing your photo because you're so pretty, and your hair is just beautiful! I missed the other thread, and I'm so sorry your husband said those things and is so fixated on appearance. :grouphug:

 

 

Oh my golly, I just read your other posts. I'm...speechless, really, the idea that your husband said that to you makes me feel like somebody punched me in the gut and I don't even know you. Honey, he has no CLUE how lucky and blessed he is.

Edited by dangermom
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You know, my dh was actually quite proactive in going, and I think it is because he truly cares. I am even quite sure tht it was he that mentioned it first. That's what blows my mind. He is always talking about how amazing I am and how much I mean to him. It's all so confusing. :confused:

 

Men are weird. Period. They open their mouths and out comes a bunch of stuff that they didn't mean that way at all. Try to focus on all those times when he's told you that you are amazing.

We can all see that you are! AND very beautiful! Inside and out!

So happy to be your friend, Dawn! And thanks for being mine. :001_smile:

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I didn't read the other thread because when I looked at the poll, I didn't see how I could answer "yes" or "no"...precisely because of situations like yours :( I read through it now, because your heart deserves to be heard. Goodness, it hurt *me* to read the things he said to you. I can't imagine how it hurts you :grouphug:.

 

I think the thought of a male therapist is a good one. I agree that he has insecurities and I think he has a problem with women, in general. It's not just you. You are lovely, inside and out!

 

Many hugs to your family :grouphug: .

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I'm afraid that I absolutely would not "flirt" in your situation, as I think his behavior makes it pretty clear that you could get yourself into a very abusive situation if he thought you were doing such a thing.... I believe that his put-downs are a way of trying to reign you in because he feels inferior. If you showed signs of exploring outside your family arena, those might become more severe....

It doesn't sound to me like jealousy is the problem. Given the comment about wanting to date a cheerleader, and being envious of guys who could get "the top of the ladder" in terms of beautiful girls, I think the issue isn't so much that he doesn't find Dawn attractive as that he doesn't feel she's the sort of "trophy wife" who would raise his status with other men. It sounds like he thinks dating a cheerleader or marrying someone who looks like a supermodel would make other men envious of him, just like owning a Ferrari or a top-of-the-line Harley — it's about the status he would gain in the eyes of other men by "owning" a beautiful woman.

 

That's why I suggested letting him know that other men do find her attractive and that other men consider her DH to be a very lucky man to have her. I think that's what he's really after.

 

I wouldn't. ;) But, I secretly enjoy knowing someone finds me attractive.

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about being s*xually flirty or trying to make him jealous — just letting him know that other men do consider you a catch. You know how some women just seem really attractive because they're fun and confident and bubbly and attentive (to women friends as well as men)? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, not making him think the UPS man wants to jump you, lol.

 

Is there any area of his life where he feels like he's a success and other men look up to him? Is he successful in business, or a leader at church or anything? Perhaps if he could find other areas that would make him feel successful and admired, he might be more inclined to let go of the idea that if only he had a trophy wife, men would envy him.

 

Jackie

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It doesn't sound to me like jealousy is the problem. Given the comment about wanting to date a cheerleader, and being envious of guys who could get "the top of the ladder" in terms of beautiful girls, I think the issue isn't so much that he doesn't find Dawn attractive as that he doesn't feel she's the sort of "trophy wife" who would raise his status with other men. It sounds like he thinks dating a cheerleader or marrying someone who looks like a supermodel would make other men envious of him, just like owning a Ferrari or a top-of-the-line Harley — it's about the status he would gain in the eyes of other men by "owning" a beautiful woman.

 

That's what I thought too. Ironically, decent and good men find his attitude horrifying.
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That's what I thought too. Ironically, decent and good men find his attitude horrifying.

 

He doesn't have any friends, though. It's not because he tries. He says he is just happy being with his family. He says he doesn't need anyone else.

 

I truly think it is just that he knows some men get the women with the great legs, large busts, etc. I'm more of a whole package sort of person, so I never understood this disecting a person down to body parts. :confused:

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I'm really glad I don't know your husband. I'd give him such a lecture on manners that you'd put me on your block list.

 

I think you're the board cutie, and I'm not the gushy type. Nor am I polite enough to say it if I didn't think so. :tongue_smilie:

 

You know, I really don't like reading "he's great except for the emotional abuse."

 

Emotional abuse IS abuse. (My father told me on more than one occasion that he felt sorry for whoever ended up with me. At 12, I ignored him. At 21, I smiled and told him that if he ever said that again, I'd hit him so hard his falsies would fall out. This is not a person I work hard to be best friends with. If my partner said this, I'd smile and send him home to his mother.)

 

And the correct response to being told you've just stomped on your partner's heart is not "You're too sensitive." The correct response is something like "OMG, I'm so sorry! That totally came out wrong, I really didn't mean it like that, OMG, OMG, OMG." (I know this from personal experience being the well meaning but tact-impaired bundle of womanhood that I am.)

 

 

BTW, Aaron might need to have some words with his father about not scaring his dates away. Otherwise he'll have to "settle" for someone who has resolved to avoid family Christmases. (Oops, personal experience there too.)

 

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

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(My father told me on more than one occasion that he felt sorry for whoever ended up with me. At 12, I ignored him. At 21, I smiled and told him that if he ever said that again, I'd hit him so hard his falsies would fall out. This is not a person I work hard to be best friends with. If my partner said this, I'd smile and send him home to his mother.)

 

Rosie

 

This is exactly what I was thinking only you said it better, as usual.

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:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:I do think your husband needs help. I don't think there would be a therapist out there who wouldn't point out how wrong it was of him to speak to you in the manner he did. It was mean and it was hurtful and you didn't deserve it.

 

We all want you to be treated well, Dawn, and we all want you to see your outside beauty. I'm afraid you have been deeply wounded and don't know when you will actually see yourself for the pretty woman you are.

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