Divorcing dad wants to take kids to Saudi Arabia Culture clash at root of Cincinnati

[ciyates]

Has anyone heard about this? What do you think? I am having a very hard time deciding which side I agree with.

 

Divorcing dad wants to take kids to Saudi Arabia

Culture clash at root of Cincinnati custody fight

BY DAN HORN • DHORN@ENQUIRER.COM •

When Rima Shaheen and Talal Bawazir go to court later this month to resolve their divorce, they will fight over more than which school their four kids attend or which parent gets to take them to movies on weekends.

 

 

 

Shaheen wants the kids to stay with her in Cincinnati, where they have lived for the past six years.

 

Bawazir wants to take them to Saudi Arabia, where he says he can get a good job.

 

Judge Elizabeth Mattingly will make the call, but she says she's not happy about her choices.

 

"You have got very few good options here," she told Shaheen at a court hearing in March. "It's not a perfect world."

 

The big legal questions in the case - who should get custody and what are the rights of the other parent - come up in countless custody battles every day in Hamilton County's domestic relations court.

 

But the case of Shaheen vs. Bawazir raises cultural, social and gender issues that few others do.

 

Shaheen and her lawyer are outraged the judge even is considering allowing her husband to take the four children, all of whom are U.S. citizens, to live in a country halfway around the world.

 

They argue that a ruling in Bawazir's favor would leave Shaheen, a homemaker, with the choice of either losing her kids, possibly forever, or following her ex-husband to a country where she believes he would control every aspect of her life, from where she worked to when she could see her children.

 

Her lawyer, Phyllis Bossin, said she also fears that any custody or parental visitation order Mattingly issues would mean nothing in Saudi Arabia because men in that country control decisions related to child custody and get preferential treatment in court.

 

Once there, Bossin said, Bawazir could make his own rules and American courts would be powerless to stop him.

 

"He wants to take these children to the other side of the world, practically into a country where she could never see them again," Bossin said in court last month. "There are human rights issues here. She has a right to parent her children."

 

Bawazir and his lawyer, Reeta Brendamour, say Shaheen is maligning Saudi culture and that the children would not be harmed by moving there. Bawazir, who was born in the United States but has worked around the world, said he has job prospects in Saudi Arabia that would provide a good life for his kids.

 

"We really think it's the best for this entire family, for everybody, to move back there," Brendamour said at the March hearing. "In the event mom does not want to go, that's totally her decision. We would like to go and take the children with us."

 

Mattingly has noted that the couple, whose children range in age from 6 to 14, lived in Saudi Arabia for eight years earlier in their marriage and are familiar with the culture. Shaheen's father is Saudi and mother is Swiss, while Bawazir's father is Saudi and mother is American.

 

Both have dual U.S. and Saudi citizenship, although they have lived most of their lives in the United States.

 

The judge told Shaheen in March that she should consider moving to Saudi Arabia or somewhere else overseas if her husband cannot find a job in the United States, suggesting it might be in her children's best interests.

 

"You are running out of money, and pretty soon your kids are going to be on the street unless you get a little more realistic about what your true options are," Mattingly told Shaheen, reminding her that Bawazir had been unemployed since 2009.

 

"Maybe you don't want to live in those places, but you got to start thinking about your kids at this point," she said. "If the two of you remain broke, I don't know how welfare looks to you, but they don't pay much in this country."

 

A Difficult Job Search

 

Shaheen and Bawazir married in 1991 and lived overseas for years as he moved from place to place for his job with Modern Products Co., which is based in Saudi Arabia. They moved to Loveland in 2004 and his family stayed there when Bawazir was assigned two years ago to a job in Venezuela.

 

He said he lost that job because of the stress of his deteriorating marriage and the separation from his children.

 

"I want to be with my kids," Bawazir said at the March hearing. "She refused to come down to Latin America. So it's like, how do I bridge that?" He said he has been unable to find a job in the United States because his experience in international business means his best job opportunities are overseas, particularly in Saudi Arabia.

 

"I don't think I can personally get a job in the U.S.," he said.

 

But Shaheen doubts he has been trying hard to find a job here. She and her lawyer say a man with more than 20 years experience in the business world should be able to find a job in Cincinnati at least as easily as in Saudi Arabia.

 

Shaheen also questioned the fairness of her and the children starting over in a new country every time her ex-husband gets a new job.

 

"Being divorced, are we supposed to just keep moving and following each other from country to country?" she said in March. "I also fear that going to Saudi, I will not have any rights over there."

 

Bossin said Saudi Arabia should not even be an option. She said divorcing parents make concessions about their jobs all the time to be near their children, and that Bawazir is more than capable of finding a job closer to Cincinnati.

 

"When people get divorced, people don't follow their spouses," Bossin said. "They are not married any more."

 

Both sides are lining up experts for the trial, which starts June 15, to talk about life in Saudi Arabia. Bossin made clear at a hearing last week that the impact of Saudi culture and society on the children is closely tied to the question of whether Bawazir should be the custodial parent.

 

When Brendamour said Bawazir would agree to shared custody in Saudi Arabia, Bossin said no.

 

"If he has the children in Saudi Arabia, he can just simply say, 'You're never going to see the children again,'" she said. "The right of women to have custody of their children in Saudi Arabia - or even to see their children - is an issue."

 

Discrimination A Problem

 

The U.S. State Department's 2009 country report on Saudi Arabia, which adheres to a strict form of Islamic law, lists several concerns about the status of women in that country: They are not permitted to drive. They need the permission of a male guardian, such as a husband or father, to get a job, open a business or to move freely around the country.

 

And the family court system tilts heavily toward men, who get full custody of boys at age seven and girls at nine.

 

"Women have few political or social rights and society does not treat them as equal members," the State Department report says. "Discrimination against women was a significant problem."

 

The rules for women have loosened a bit in recent years but they remain stringent, said Karen Dabdoub, director of the Cincinnati chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

 

"Just living in Saudi Arabia is not necessarily the most horrible thing," Dabdoub said. "I know people who lived there and liked it. I know people who lived there and hated it. The kinds of jobs that women can do are limited and where they can go is limited.

 

"If she's saying that her movement and rights would be restricted, yeah, absolutely."

 

The judge will have to take those factors into consideration when she makes her decision about the couple's two boys and two girls, said Katherine Federle, director of Ohio State University's Justice for Children Project.

 

She said the case is, technically, no different than any other relocation case involving divorced parents, although this one is "writ large" because it involves a potential move to Saudi Arabia.

 

"This sounds like a relatively typical custody battle that involves relocation," she said. "It's just a long way away."

 

Mattingly will hear at the trial from experts about Saudi society and what a move there would mean for the children. She also will hear from a court-appointed guardian and lawyer responsible for protecting the children's interests.

 

Shaheen, Bawazir, the judge and the lawyers would not comment before the trial, but court proceedings so far have been contentious. Mattingly has said she wants to get the case resolved as soon as possible for the sake of the kids.

 

She said their grades in school and their well-being have been damaged by the long court fight.

 

"Your children are suffering with this battle," Mattingly said in March. "You are getting to the line where decisions have to be made."

[cathmom]

These children should not be made to live in Saudi Arabia, especially if any of them are girls.

[RoughCollie]

I think that if my ex-husband wanted to take my kids to live in Saudi Arabia, or any other foreign country, particularly one in the middle east, it would be over my dead body. Period.

 

The mother runs a grave risk of never seeing her kids again if the judge orders that they move to Saudi Arabia with their father. It is outrageous that her legal choices may be to either lose her kids or move to Saudi Arabia.

 

I bet this wouldn't be such a big issue if the parents did not have dual citizenship.

 

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

 

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there."

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Edited June 6, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Laurie4b]

I"m sorry, but why is this a hard decision for the judge? She knows quite well that the Saudi legal system is completely different than ours and women face phenomenal discrimination and their courts are not going to consider the decision of our secular courts valid. This is a no brainer. An American citizen should not face being essentially legally deported or having her children deported because her x-h cannot find a job. And she shouldn't even be considering sentencing any female children to life where they have almost no rights. Why is this not a no-brainer? Plenty of people in this country are on welfare; the judge seems to think that is the worse alternative.

[Debora R]

In many Saudi countries, divorced women have "no" rights with regards to their children. American court orders would have no validity. There is a very real chance that if their father takes them over there, the mother will never see them again, even if she goes as well.

[2cents]

I'm in shock that a judge is even considering that! What must she be thinking..or NOT thinking??!! I think the judge needs a wake-up call in gender issues relating to the Middle East culture. There is no way I would allow my children to travel out of the country under those circumstances...no matter what some obtuse judge says! This isn't a 'happy' family. This is a family with issues and the mother will be at serious disadvantage to protect her rights as a mother and those of her children in a traditionally VERY male biased society. :mad:

[chiguirre]

Wow! I can't believe a judge would allow a parent to take the children to a country where the other parent will lose their parental rights. How does this judge think she's going to enforce the mother's rights in Saudi? How is the mother supposed to get a job to support herself there? She won't be allowed to drive and who is going to be her male guardian, her ex?

 

Frankly, refusing to move to Venezuela with the kids doesn't seem unreasonable to me. We wouldn't move back because of the extreme insecurity and we're Venezuelan!

 

I hope the judge gets a tremendous backlash for even considering such a outrage.

[stripe]

I'm not in favor of divorcing parents leaving the state, much less the country, with the kids. I believe this no matter what the locations involved are.

[SproutMamaK]

I can't believe the judge is even considering it. It's plan as day to me that he's chosen this place specifically because he knows he'll have total control there. And international business with 20 years experience, and the ONLY place he can find a job is Saudi Arabia? And since when does a judge expect a divorced wife to follow her ex-husband to the other side of the world for money?!

[MamaT]

It is unbelievable to me that a judge would side for the dad in this case, for all the reasons already mentioned.

 

If I was the mom and didn't win custody, I would be tempted to flee with my kids.

[Chris in VA]

Stupid judge.

Maybe the guy can find a job in his field easier in SA, maybe not--but who says he needs to work in his field? He needs to work, period.

Doesn't have a leg to stand on, imo.

 

I do feel for him, but he is a victim of in-the-box thinking, of his own making. Poor kids.

[elizabeth]

Let the judge go to Saudi Arabia . That would take care of her apparently bottomless ignorance.

[elizabeth]

http://www.ohiobar.org/Pages/LawYouCanUseDetail.aspx?itemID=427

The Ohio state bar association graciously outlined the factors the judge should take into consideration. It really is a no brainer. In Iowa this would not even be considered based not only on state statutes but with regard to relevant caselaw.

[Mejane]

They would have to pry those kids out of my cold, dead hands. :glare:

[gingersmom]

That sent shivers down my spine.

 

I think I would be tempted to flee with my kids.

 

When I was getting divorced I had a similarly stupid/misinformed judge.

 

I was living in New Jersey and my X decided to move 2 hours away in the opposite direction to live with his new girlfriend and her kids.

 

The judge was actually considering having me drive my kids to his new home 2 hours away.

 

I seriously thought she was on drugs. Hmmm......it makes complete sense. Don't move closer to your children, move farther away. :confused:

 

Not a fan of the legal system.

[newbie]

I would rather be on welfare... than lose my kids to Saudi Arabia. She would never see them again, whether she moves there or not. The only place she has rights is here.

[Renee in NC]

I think the problem lies with the fact that the mother is *also* a citizen of Saudi Arabia and they have lived there in the past. Were any of the children born there?

 

I don't blame the mother - I wouldn't want to go to Saudi Arabia, either. I just don't think it is as clear cut as it would be under other circumstances.

[Red]

If the Judge rules to have the children relocated it would be a very stupid call. I can't believe that anyone would buy the excuse I can't find work anywhere else. Sounds like he just wants to go where he'll have total control.

 

When parents divorce around here it is standard for both parties to remain within a 100 mile range of the original residence of the children. Now if one party says I want to move out of state/country you don't have the right to upset the status quo. Your decision equals your inconvenience.

 

But I would fight to my dying breath not to allow those children to even visit that country. Because once they step foot on the ground the mom will never see them again. Not to mention the quality of life the girls will have to endure. And any Judge who can't understand that is either heartless or stupid. If the Judge rules for the kids to remain with the mother at least they can have a relationship with both parents in the United States. The other ruling would cost those kids their mom. Needs to tell the dad to stop trying to control his ex wife this way. And start looking for work in the area they are in. If that means looking outside his chosen field. Seems he is putting his career first though. The Judge needs to maintain the Status Quo of remaining right where they are.

 

I will have to pray for these poor children.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Hasn't the judge heard the many stories of women searching for their children for YEARS once the father has taken them to a Middle Eastern country? Hiring people to basically kidnap the children and bring them home?

 

I can not believe that the judge is even considering this. I also don't believe the husband can't find a job.

 

If I were the mother, I would run with my kids. No way would I take a chance of never seeing them again.

[2cents]

I'm wondering if the Dept of Immigration might be able to weigh in on this. According to the article the children are US citizens and the parent are dual-citizens. If the judge rules that the dad can take the children out of the country is that almost like a deportation of an american citizen? Could the mom have recourse there? I wonder if there has been a guardian-ad-litem assigned to the children. Someone needs to be representing their rights in court to that lame-brain excuse of a judge. This case needs to be higher profile because this kind of ruling is only indicative of what is probably a pattern of her judicial abuse and stupidity.

[Mabelen]

Under these circumstances I would not allow the dad to take the children to Saudi. A country where both the mom and the dad *men and women* had equal rights? yes. Saudi, unfortunately, and despite how culturally the kids would adapt easily, no.

 

As far as the parents and the children having both nationalities.... As far as I know there is no such thing as American/Saudi dual citizenship. That means there is no official agreement between the two countries as such. These people have two nationalities, not dual nationalities. As such, in America they are treated as American (regardless of any other nationality they may hold). In Saudi they will be treated as Saudi nationals (regardless of any other nationality they may hold).

[stripe]

Since the mother is also Saudi, regardless of how she personally feels about the country, she is not in the same position as a non-Saudi woman going there, which has both advantages and disadvantages to her in their legal system and in her experience of the country. However, the father did say that he is considering moving to another country overseas, not only Saudi Arabia. I think the more salient issue is actually one that's been overlooked, namely when the mother wonders about the mobility that's expected when the father moves to a different country every few years.

 

It is clearly a difficult situation and seems like, whatever the outcome, is going to be challenging for the kids.

[RoughCollie]

If the judge rules that the dad can take the children out of the country is that almost like a deportation of an american citizen?

 

I don't think so, because children go with the parents. Look at the cases of deported illegal aliens -- their anchor babies may be U.S. citizens, but they are deported with their parents because they are minors and their parents are responsible for their custody and care.

 

This is more like deporting an adult American citizen in fact (not under the color of law), the mother, by forcing her to choose between leaving the U.S. to be with her children, or staying here without her children.

Edited June 6, 2010 by RoughCollie

[mycalling]

 

I'm not in favor of divorcing parents leaving the state, much less the country, with the kids. I believe this no matter what the locations involved are.

:iagree: Especially fresh into a divorce. It just screams revenge.

[Laurie4b]

I don't think so, because children go with the parents. Look at the cases of deported illegal aliens -- their anchor babies may be U.S. citizens, but they are deported with their parents because they are minors and their parents are responsible for their custody and care.

 

.

 

If the children leave the country with their deported parents, it is the choice of the deported parents. The children can remain if the parents arrange suitable care for them.

[Rosie_0801]

Perhaps the judge is trying to sound like she is impartial so as not to offend minorities and get screamed at for being anti-Islam?

 

Rosie

[phathui5]

Did anyone else think of Not Without My Daughter when they read this?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Without_My_Daughter

[PineFarmMom]

 

I think I would be tempted to flee with my kids.

 

 

 

That!!!

 

Oh, and also the "out of my cold, dead hands" comment would fit my feelings as well!!!

[Parrothead]

I'm in shock that a judge is even considering that! What must she be thinking..or NOT thinking??!!

IMHO It is a great thing the judge is doing. The entire bru-ha-ha has make the media. It is on internet message boards. Women everywhere are up in arms over the possibility that this poor woman will loose her kids.

 

So the judge decides in favor of the mother. Then all eyes are on the father. Hopefully he doesn't dare kidnap the children - which has happened before. Could cause an international incident.

 

;)

[Guest Meg Ohio]

Latest story on this case for those who are interested:

 

Custody dispute dad flees to Saudi Arabia with $500,000 from Procter & Gamble

 

By Dan Horn • dhorn@enquirer.com • June 15, 2010

 

Talal Bawazir told a judge earlier this month he needed to move his children from Cincinnati to Saudi Arabia after his divorce because he couldn't provide for his family in the United States.

Now, he's in Saudi Arabia alone with $500,000 that his wife says her four kids need to survive.

The unusual custody battle between Bawazir and his wife, Rima Shaheen, took a surprising turn last week when Bawazir flew to Saudi Arabia just days after his wife's lawyers learned of a $500,000 severance payment from his former employer.

The move ended plans for a trial Tuesday to resolve the custody issues and prompted Shaheen's lawyers to demand Bawazir's arrest if he returns to the United States.

"There has been a massive fraud committed on this court," said Shaheen's attorney, Phyllis Bossin. "He has made a mockery of this court and all the while used the money for whatever he wanted."

Domestic Relations Judge Susan Laker Tolbert, who took over the case last week, set a new custody trial for July 1 and said the case would proceed with or without Bawazir.

The judge did not issue an arrest warrant for Bawazir because she said she wants him to return for the trial and with the money, which, under the law, is a marital asset that would be divided as part of any custody arrangement.

Until last week, Bawazir had argued that the children, who are U.S. citizens, should move with him to Saudi Arabia because he had no money and could only find a job in that country. He previously had worked in overseas assignments for Modern Products Co. and Procter & Gamble.

The previous judge on the case, Elizabeth Mattingly, encouraged Shaheen to at least consider a move to Saudi Arabia if her husband could not find work in the United States.

But Shaheen opposed the move, saying Islamic law in that country favored men and that he could prevent her from seeing her children if she followed him there. She also said she doubted her husband had been truthful about his finances or about trying to find a job in Cincinnati.

Bossin said she found proof Bawazir misled the court when she received information about a $500,000 severance package from Procter & Gamble.

She said Bawazir wired the money to an account in Saudi Arabia and then pretended to take out loans from his father in Saudi Arabia to pay expenses and legal fees.

When he got caught, Bossin said, he fled the country and abandoned the custody battle for his children.

"What happened here is their father sneaked out of the country when his hand was caught in the cookie jar," Bossin said. "They have a mother who is left to pick up the pieces after their father left without saying goodbye. She's sitting here broke, trying to deal with their emotions."

She said Bawazir has continued to contact the children via e-mail and has made derogatory comments about his wife that are "toxic." She said his e-mails also blame the U.S. court system for forcing him to leave and tout Islamic law as his best chance for a fair hearing.

[Snickerdoodle]

Latest story on this case for those who are interested:

 

Yikes.

[m4given]

Latest story on this case for those who are interested:

 

Custody dispute dad flees to Saudi Arabia with $500,000 from Procter & Gamble

 

By Dan Horn • dhorn@enquirer.com • June 15, 2010

 

She said Bawazir has continued to contact the children via e-mail and has made derogatory comments about his wife that are "toxic." She said his e-mails also blame the U.S. court system for forcing him to leave and tout Islamic law as his best chance for a fair hearing.

 

I really feel for the kids - stuck in the middle of all this.

[Harriet Vane]

Latest story on this case for those who are interested:

 

Custody dispute dad flees to Saudi Arabia with $500,000 from Procter & Gamble

 

By Dan Horn • dhorn@enquirer.com • June 15, 2010

 

Talal Bawazir told a judge earlier this month he needed to move his children from Cincinnati to Saudi Arabia after his divorce because he couldn't provide for his family in the United States.

Now, he's in Saudi Arabia alone with $500,000 that his wife says her four kids need to survive.

The unusual custody battle between Bawazir and his wife, Rima Shaheen, took a surprising turn last week when Bawazir flew to Saudi Arabia just days after his wife's lawyers learned of a $500,000 severance payment from his former employer.

The move ended plans for a trial Tuesday to resolve the custody issues and prompted Shaheen's lawyers to demand Bawazir's arrest if he returns to the United States.

"There has been a massive fraud committed on this court," said Shaheen's attorney, Phyllis Bossin. "He has made a mockery of this court and all the while used the money for whatever he wanted."

Domestic Relations Judge Susan Laker Tolbert, who took over the case last week, set a new custody trial for July 1 and said the case would proceed with or without Bawazir.

The judge did not issue an arrest warrant for Bawazir because she said she wants him to return for the trial and with the money, which, under the law, is a marital asset that would be divided as part of any custody arrangement.

Until last week, Bawazir had argued that the children, who are U.S. citizens, should move with him to Saudi Arabia because he had no money and could only find a job in that country. He previously had worked in overseas assignments for Modern Products Co. and Procter & Gamble.

The previous judge on the case, Elizabeth Mattingly, encouraged Shaheen to at least consider a move to Saudi Arabia if her husband could not find work in the United States.

But Shaheen opposed the move, saying Islamic law in that country favored men and that he could prevent her from seeing her children if she followed him there. She also said she doubted her husband had been truthful about his finances or about trying to find a job in Cincinnati.

Bossin said she found proof Bawazir misled the court when she received information about a $500,000 severance package from Procter & Gamble.

She said Bawazir wired the money to an account in Saudi Arabia and then pretended to take out loans from his father in Saudi Arabia to pay expenses and legal fees.

When he got caught, Bossin said, he fled the country and abandoned the custody battle for his children.

"What happened here is their father sneaked out of the country when his hand was caught in the cookie jar," Bossin said. "They have a mother who is left to pick up the pieces after their father left without saying goodbye. She's sitting here broke, trying to deal with their emotions."

She said Bawazir has continued to contact the children via e-mail and has made derogatory comments about his wife that are "toxic." She said his e-mails also blame the U.S. court system for forcing him to leave and tout Islamic law as his best chance for a fair hearing.

 

The one good thing about this is that ex has completely screwed his own credibility.

 

If I were that mom I would now fear a kidnapping.

[Mejane]

Domestic Relations Judge Susan Laker Tolbert, who took over the case last week, set a new custody trial for July 1 and said the case would proceed with or without Bawazir.

 

 

He just made it easy on them. It's sort of a no-brainer now.

[stripe]

The trouble is, "out of my cold, dead hands" sounds creepy when it comes from a father, so I can hardly cheer a mother saying it.

[Slartibartfast]

What a jerk.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would be very concerned that once the kids were outside the US the father would use the court system of the other country to gain full custody and restrict the mother from seeing the kids.

 

We live in Japan and it has been an issue here with US servicemembers marrying Japanese women and returning to the US. If the Japanese wife/mother returns to Japan with the kids, she can get a divorce decree and custody. The fathers not only don't have a right to shared custody, but can be prevented from seeing their kids at all.

 

This spring a US father was arrested for trying to talk to his daughter while standing on a sidewalk near her school. To my knowledge, there are no allegations of abuse, just no right of contact. It is quite sad.

[katemary63]

I think that if my ex-husband wanted to take my kids to live in Saudi Arabia, or any other foreign country, particularly one in the middle east, it would be over my dead body. Period.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

 

:iagree:She would never see them again.

[pqr]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/16/arizona-woman-daughter-stuck-bahraini-custody-battle/

[Mejane]

I will probably get skewered for saying this, but I think women who move to countries where women are considered possessions and then expect fair treatment, are foolish.

[jonesloonybin]

:iagree:

 

It is horrible and heartbreaking but come on....she obviously didn't think it through! (talking about the fox news story)

[Kate in Arabia]

I will probably get skewered for saying this, but I think women who move to countries where women are considered possessions and then expect fair treatment, are foolish.

It is horrible and heartbreaking but come on....she obviously didn't think it through!

 

Both the husband and wife are dual US-Saudi citizens. Both of their fathers are Saudi nationals.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100605/NEWS01/6060328/Divorcing-husband-wants-to-take-kids-to-Saudi-Arabia&template=artsemantics&server=MOC-WN0347

[Guest truthseeker]

The June 15th article in Cincinnati Enquirer makes clear what kind of father he is. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100615/NEWS010702/6160318/-1/WAP&template=wapart.

the latest letters to the editor reveal he is now saying he left cause his grandpa is sick. Give me a break! Really?? How does he explain wiring money to Saudi instead of disclosing it to the Court or his own lawyer??? Hope the mother sues P & G for their involvement and that her lawyer does a background check on this guy in all states . I smell a BIG RAT.

[jonesloonybin]

Both the husband and wife are dual US-Saudi citizens. Both of their fathers are Saudi nationals.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100605/NEWS01/6060328/Divorcing-husband-wants-to-take-kids-to-Saudi-Arabia&template=artsemantics&server=MOC-WN0347

 

 

As I stated in my post that you quoted, I was talking about the fox article about the woman from Arizona that is a U.S. citizen. Not the one the OP posted about.

[Remudamom]

I'm with RC. It'd be OMDB.

[Kate in Arabia]

I was talking about the fox article about the woman from Arizona that is a U.S. citizen.

Sorry, my mistake.

 

I'm with RC. It'd be OMDB.

Me too.

[Osmosis Mom]

Gosh, this thread makes me sad. My dad is Syrian and divorced my Danish mother (upon her insistence) and basically had no rights despite his Danish citizenship in regards to travelling with us. When I finally was a preteen and wanted to visit is family then we had to get special approval in order to be able to leave the country. I spoke as a 10 yo to a social worker and at age 12 to the judge in our then custody battle and both of their main concerns was my father's different religion..... Not how much he loved or cared for me, but that his religion was different (and scary).

 

I once met another Syrian/German woman who was actually "abducted" with her sister away from her manic-depressive German mother and taken to Syria (coincidence, but our stories were very similar except I was never taken away!!). She was 8-9 years old when it happened and was a very articulate, interesting educated person who said she had enver blamed her dad and was actually pleased with her childhood, loved her dad and appreciated the sacrifices he actually had had to make. She had not been banned from having contact with her mother, though, just taken to live and be raised in her father's homecountry.

 

Her story is a nice contrast to mine since my father (contrary to wifely promises upon marriage) was sort of held hostage in DK in order to keep being with his kids and being their dad....

 

So, in general, I really, really think most people are more complex than just wanting to steal the kdis away from the opposing spouse in order to annoy or punish them. Sometimes it is a sincere wish for a different life and sometimes the non-kidnapping parent is not necessarily the more fit one to parent....

[Kate in Arabia]

I agree, Nadia, that each case should be looked at individually; it's really easy/tempting to fall into the "desert sheikh abducts the hapless blonde" or "not without my daughter" scenarios that have been so appealingly dramatic over the decades. As I recall there is a sizeable number of international abductions of children by one parent to other countries (not just the ME), I don't know percentages.

 

For the entire length of my marriage (15 yrs) I have had people making comments about am I not afraid that dh will abduct the kids.

 

I will say, however, that I believe Saudi Arabia to be a unique case. The warnings from the State Department for women considering marrying Saudi nationals are unequivocal, and I don't think they are overstated.

 

jmo, and no offense intended to anyone.

[cin]

.

 

Her story is a nice contrast to mine since my father (contrary to wifely promises upon marriage) was sort of held hostage in DK in order to keep being with his kids and being their dad....

 

 

 

Nadia, I understand your point, but my cousin was held hostage in Oklahoma for the same reason. Her and her ex had good jobs there, and despite the fact that she had primary custody, she was not allowed to take the kids outside of OK. I don't know if laws have changed, overall. Her kids are well out of high school.

 

These were (well, still are, I guess) 2 American citizens with no police record, hard working, adults. One broke the marriage vows, but never broke the law.

[JFSinIL]

These children should not be made to live in Saudi Arabia, especially if any of them are girls.

 

I agree. Not an option. If he is going to have such a good job, he can afford to travel back to Ohio to visit often.