Would this upset you?

[Peela]

I have never written a "would this upset you " thread, so here's a first.

 

I have been setting up a business running women's discussion groups, and it is going well. It is part time and fits well with homeschooling and my past, talents and interests. This is a big deal for me. I have been looking for something to do within the structure of my life for a while. Dh, an experienced business person, is backing me with his advice and skills.

 

A few days ago, I told one of my close, long term girlfriends about it.

Today, we bumped in to each other at the supermarket, and she told me she was so inspired by what I had told her the other day that she and another mutual friend of ours have decided to do the same business, in the same area. And, she really wanted to catch up with me so I could tell her the business model I was using and all the ins and outs so that they could copy it.

 

I was stunned, and the first thought that ran through my head was..."time to get some new friends". My heart hurt physically in my chest as I tried to make conversation after that. I wasn't together enough to tell her at the time that that really hurt my feelings, and no way would I share out business model with her as she was going into direct competition with us.

 

So, I am scrabbling for some way to see this from a different perspective other than wanting to just move on from those long term and I thought, valuable friends! Dh says I am naive and they are suffering from envy. It's not that they are a serious threat to our business, since we have been going for a while now...but does a friend do that? I cant imagine doing that to them. It is also their area of interest...but recently I tried to pull together another womens group with them that was unpaid at first but very interesting, and neither could fnd the time so it fell apart. So I went in this direction..and now that it is successful they want to do it too, separately from me. No, I cant invite them in to my business because it involves a different circle of people.

 

Ugh, I am quite disillusioned. Perhaps they will realise that it is not cool and apologise. Or perhaps I over reacting and that's normal or reasonable behaviour?

[momofkhm]

But with what you said, they probably are envious of your success. I'd also think that if they can't find the time for the former, they won't be able to make a go of the latter.

 

I still wouldn't share the information with them. If they want to do it, they can do their own research.

[martinswife]

Honesty is the best policy. If they are really your friends they will understand your desire to not share your business secrets.

[CindyH in NC]

The nerve of them expecting you to share your business model the ins and outs. To me that just means they are wanting to benefit from all of your hard work. NO Way would I share that info.

 

But as you said they couldn't find time to work on the other project with you. Do you think that they will lose their excitement and forget about the idea in a little while? I know people like that. They get caught up in a great idea but when it comes to actually working it out they eventually don't have time or the stamina to see it through.

 

Maybe they will realize that they need to come up with another idea.

 

:grouphug:

Cindy

[amy g.]

Can you talk to her about how you are afraid the market is saturated, but make it sound like you are concerned about how it will be a waste of her time?

 

I would be very upset in your position, but I would TRY to convince myself that my friend doesn't know any better. If I said, "I'm just so worried that there is not enough business to go around." and she did it anyway, I'd write her off and be through with her.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. It stinks.

[Julie in MO]

Hi Peela,

First of all, congratulations and best wishes on your entrepreneurial adventure! What an interesting concept for business!

 

I think all of us would feel upset by this kind of response from a friend. After weathering many hurts from friends, including serious betrayal, I had to do some deep soul searching about this. I read a fabulous book entitled Total Forgiveness by R.T. Kendall. It's really hard for me to do this, but the book helped me see that, at least within friendships, most people are not intentionally trying to hurt one another - they just make REALLY unwise decisions and can say very callous things without understanding/empathizing with the impact those decisions/words can have on others. Sadly....people can be really dumb. I've said some dumb things I regret and have had to "clean up." If this is a long term friendship that you had felt safe in, is it possible that this was a "duh moment" on her part? If not, and this wasn't a strong, safe relationship, then it appears you'll need some boundaries to protect you and your business. Sorry that happened to you, Peela. You are such a blessing to this board - I imagine you bless everyone you come in contact with!

 

Julie in MO

[elegantlion]

But with what you said, they probably are envious of your success. I'd also think that if they can't find the time for the former, they won't be able to make a go of the latter.

 

I still wouldn't share the information with them. If they want to do it, they can do their own research.

 

:iagree: It would upset me too. It seems they are looking at this as a network marketing type of opportunity, you tell me all your trade secrets and help me be successful. It's a naive attitude, imo. I wouldn't take it personally, although it would take a few days to get over. It really was a compliment, you make this work look easy to them. :)

 

To be non-confrontational I would give them the name of a few books to read. If they decide to take the time to do this, let it be all on them.

[Heidi7Sue]

It might be normal behavior, but it definitely isn't reasonable. I agree with the PP that it might help you to try to find out if she's just being dense. Sometimes people just don't realize what is obvious to other people, especially if they have no experience in business.

[Harriet Vane]

I would feel just as you do. Your friend just hasn't thought this through. I would suggest a gentle conversation wherein you tell her.

[Peela]

Thanks ladies...I didnt think I was way off, and neither did dh, but its good to check sometimes. I still tend to blame myself first and think I am in the wrong somehow, but I didnt think so once I thought about it.

I agree its not deliberate nastiness...and she has been a good friend...but I think the $ signs are flashing in her eyes and suddenly our friendship took 2nd place to her greed. Reminds me of having friends who are into multi network marketing and phone you up all friendly only to try and sign you up!

 

I am not ready to talk to her calmly yet. I know I will forgive, but I am not sure if the friendship could ever be quite the same again- I will be open to see how it unfolds . I feel like I just grew up a bit about how people can be and won't be quite as gullible again. I certainly have no intention on sharing the business strategies.

 

I tried to tell her the market was saturated in the area. That didnt seem to phase her at all.

[PiCO]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

[RoughCollie]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

 

Boy howdy, do I agree with this!

[teamturner]

Wow! That's really incredicble that she had the nerve to ask you that. I minored in business, but I assume that most adults understand the concept of competition. Maybe not?! I think you should gently explain it to her and see how she reacts. Perhaps she is seriously misguided and didn't realize what she was asking and once you explain it, she'll be apologetic. Let's hope so! :001_huh:

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

It would upset me. I don't know if having a talk with her would matter, because she seems pretty clueless if she even brought this up in the first place.

[Stacy in NJ]

Yes, I would be annoyed/hurt. I wonder if they realize how this impacts you, though. Sometimes people are just unintentionally thoughtless. Next time you speak with them/her, I'd purposefully let it "slip" that you were a bit suprised that they intended to copy your plans. Since your scheme involves another circle of friends, you can keep them at a distance for the short term. Eventually, their plans may not pan out and your relationship may improve. I'd just be patient, let them know they've stepped on your toes a bit, but don't necessarily terminate the friendship, but definately don't share your own planning.

[Dandelion]

Congrats on your new business - it sounds like a great concept!

 

I had a similar experience last year. After telling a friend of mine for months about my plans to become a Life Coach (and which training/certification program I was enrolling in, my business model, etc.), she announced to me one day that she was going to become a Life Coach as well. Like your friend, she was very excited about it, kept saying "we need to get together on a regular basis to compare notes", and she was even planning on enrolling in the same program I was in. Before she told me about her plans, I had shared some specific ideas with her about a group coaching concept I wanted to start up here in town, and exactly how I was planning to do that. After her "announcement", she kept saying how great it would be to partner on that - I'm not looking for a business partner!! We would also have been in competition during our training/certification since new coaches are required to complete a certain number of coaching hours (and most people tap into their circle of friends/acquaintances for that - our circle is shared to some degree). For awhile, she was calling me every other day to talk about it and press me for more info. My initial reaction was EXACTLY like yours and I was uncomfortable with it for weeks. :glare:

 

After talking to a few other friends (who don't know this person), I finally came to peace with it. Everyone agreed it wasn't cool, but they all told me "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

 

Fast forward 6 months later: I'm 2 months away from completing my program and have been working on my business start-up in parallel. My friend has dropped out of hers (she ended up enrolling in a different program). She hasn't mentioned it for the past two months and I haven't brought it up. Our friendship hasn't suffered. ;)

 

I hope things work out in your situation, and I wish you all the best with your business! :001_smile:

Edited April 30, 2010 by Dandelion

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would avoid them or at least not go out of my way to seek them out for awhile. There is a good chance (as another poster said) that the excitement will wear off and they will forget about it. If they do contact you, then I think being straight-forward with them about why you are saying no would be right.

[Starr]

Well...I don't think I would really be able to trust her. The other posts do sound hopeful that she won't be able to keep up with the work. Congratulations to you and I wish you well!

[Tutor]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

 

:iagree:

 

I would also make clear to her (because maybe she's just being clueless?) that this is not a fun hobby for you... it's a job. Sadly, as another poster pointed out, she's probably too clueless for a real talking to to mean much, but I would feel compelled to at least attempt to clue her in but then be prepared to move on if she still doesn't get it.

[Blessedfamily]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

 

I would have to tell them this. And yes, I would be aggravated.

[OnTheBrink]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

 

:iagree:

 

Sometimes when you say it back to them, it dawns on them what they're asking of you. And, sometimes not. LOL

 

Yes, I'd be very upset about it.

[bookfiend]

Many people don't understand that ideas and concepts have intellectual property rights similar to a patented product, secret recipe, or manufacturing process. So they think nothing of asking you to share the nuts and bolts of your success.

 

I'm with the other posters, give this friend an honest shot at cleaning up a misunderstanding. Clearly state your feelings of betrayal and surprise; matter-of-factly explain why good business practices would preclude you from helping her launch a similar buiness in the same marketplace. (Side note - you might seriously consider mentoring others in different cities, as a franchise-style/business parterning venture for the future)

 

How she reacts will tell you where she values your friendship.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you, and congratulations on starting something new - that takes BRAVERY!

[Dobela]

Yes I would be frustrated. But I also agree with the PP. I would say somethign like, "Wow, I am so flattered. I would be happy to share my secrets with you and help you get started as long as you are wiling to pay the franchise fees to do so. "

[Corraleno]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

:iagree:

Maybe when she hears it spelled out like that, she'll understand how totally inappropriate her request is.

 

Jackie

[SquirrellyMama]

No, I wouldn't be upset. I don't think she understands what she asked you or how much work it is. Maybe she sees it as a side business that just brings in a little extra a week.

 

I would relax and tell them what they are asking and why you can't do what she has asked. If she is a close friend she will understand.

[In the Rain]

Yes, I'd be upset. If the friendship was important to me, I would talk through it with the other ladies.

[Lovedtodeath]

Yes Peela. It would most definitely upset me. I would feel insulted and confused and I certainly wouldn't help them.

[Impish]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

:iagree:

[hillfarm]

If the friend brought it up again, I would gush and say, "I have been so excited, thinking about what you said last time. I have wanted to develop the consulting end of this! I'm sure you and Soandso will find my consulting fees very reasonable and well worth your money. I'm drafting up my rate sheet for consulting right now. I know that dh and I have got this area of the market thoroughly covered, but I'm sure you can find some clients if you are willing to look farther away from home...."

 

And then if she balks and says that they weren't planning to actually pay you, I would laugh and say, "Right, I know you would never expect me to give away the benefit of all my years of hard work for free. I'm so glad that you realize that I am doing this for the income, not as a hobby...".

 

And then I would change the subject and not divulge any more information. If she pursues it, I would sincerely tell her that you are not sure that your area could support two specialists doing that type of work and you would hate to see her go to all the effort to come up to speed and then not have an adequate client base. End of story. No appologies, no confrontation, no freebies!

[jenL]

When you're calm enough to talk to her, say something like- "Let me see if I understand you correctly. I've put x years into researching this project and developing my business plan. I've developed a clientele in this area through marketing and hard work. And you would like me to give you all of my hard- won knowledge so you can set up a business that competes for my limited clientele?"

 

:iagree: This is very straight-forward and clear, and the tone can be said kindlly (although it would take ME a long time to be calm since I'd be so upset in the first place). She needs to hear it laid out so she truly knows what she was expecting from you. I don't think she knows how intrusive she was being. At least, I hope she doesn't! :grouphug:

 

Congratulations on your new venture! It sounds very admirable!

[Lovedtodeath]

If the friend brought it up again, I would gush and say, "I have been so excited, thinking about what you said last time. I have wanted to develop the consulting end of this! I'm sure you and Soandso will find my consulting fees very reasonable and well worth your money. I'm drafting up my rate sheet for consulting right now. I know that dh and I have got this area of the market thoroughly covered, but I'm sure you can find some clients if you are willing to look farther away from home...."

 

And then if she balks and says that they weren't planning to actually pay you, I would laugh and say, "Right, I know you would never expect me to give away the benefit of all my years of hard work for free. I'm so glad that you realize that I am doing this for the income, not as a hobby...".

 

And then I would change the subject and not divulge any more information. If she pursues it, I would sincerely tell her that you are not sure that your area could support two specialists doing that type of work and you would hate to see her go to all the effort to come up to speed and then not have an adequate client base. End of story. No appologies, no confrontation, no freebies!

This is a good idea!

[Peela]

Thanks everyone. I love some of your ideas for responses to her! I dont know if I would have the guts to say them though :) This incident has made me realise how much I dont like conflict and would avoid it if possible. I feel more comortable withdrawing from her but if she wants to talk to me about it more- I will definitely say something. I won't sell out on it.

[kalanamak]

This incident has made me realise how much I dont like conflict and would avoid it if possible.

:iagree:

 

 

I would be upset but probably would be over it by morning. I hate conflict, and almost NEVER get into it unless I'm standing up for someone weaker (in my case, a patient). I'd even just change the topic, or say something like Ugh, it is so much work, I hate to think about it when I don't have to.

 

She doesn't mean to be evil. She's either a boor, or just comes from a world where people share and share alike. She has no idea you are upset and would feel badly if she knew (I'm betting). I, personally, would try hard to make sure she never knew. Bet it will all blow over, anyway.

[Audrey]

I have never written a "would this upset you " thread, so here's a first.

 

I have been setting up a business running women's discussion groups, and it is going well. It is part time and fits well with homeschooling and my past, talents and interests. This is a big deal for me. I have been looking for something to do within the structure of my life for a while. Dh, an experienced business person, is backing me with his advice and skills.

 

A few days ago, I told one of my close, long term girlfriends about it.

Today, we bumped in to each other at the supermarket, and she told me she was so inspired by what I had told her the other day that she and another mutual friend of ours have decided to do the same business, in the same area. And, she really wanted to catch up with me so I could tell her the business model I was using and all the ins and outs so that they could copy it.

 

I was stunned, and the first thought that ran through my head was..."time to get some new friends". My heart hurt physically in my chest as I tried to make conversation after that. I wasn't together enough to tell her at the time that that really hurt my feelings, and no way would I share out business model with her as she was going into direct competition with us.

 

So, I am scrabbling for some way to see this from a different perspective other than wanting to just move on from those long term and I thought, valuable friends! Dh says I am naive and they are suffering from envy. It's not that they are a serious threat to our business, since we have been going for a while now...but does a friend do that? I cant imagine doing that to them. It is also their area of interest...but recently I tried to pull together another womens group with them that was unpaid at first but very interesting, and neither could fnd the time so it fell apart. So I went in this direction..and now that it is successful they want to do it too, separately from me. No, I cant invite them in to my business because it involves a different circle of people.

 

Ugh, I am quite disillusioned. Perhaps they will realise that it is not cool and apologise. Or perhaps I over reacting and that's normal or reasonable behaviour?

 

 

Yes, that would upset me, too. What I would probably do is give a laugh and say "well, the Colonel hasn't given up his fried chicken recipe to his competitors yet, so I don't think I'll be giving up my secret recipes either, but I wish you well with your new venture. The competition will be fierce."