I hate fuddy duddy homeschooler rules

[TravelingChris]

I have to say that I hate fuddy duddy homeschool rules. Dd is petite, pretty, and modest. I can't see what is wrong with her wearing a beautiful ballgown that is not low cut at all but has spaghetti straps. This is my very self-conscious girl and she has been wearing gowns that require strapless bras for the last three years. She knows how to wear it. She looks fabulous in it but not at all provacative. The rules are so stringent (no spaghetti straps, no strapless, no backless, nothing above the knees, etc. etc.. How about just saying tasteful and classy? Looking at the pictures from this party last year, I can see that many girls put on what seemed to be their mother's dresses from 20+ years ago. Uggh!! My girls never wear trampy clothes. I don't need to stop them. However, my older dd has a close to perfection body and unless I put her in a burka, boys will notice. So far it hasn't been any problem since she takes after me and has a killer look if someone bothers her (she wouldn't use it on a polite interest but has used it on rude comments from people).

 

Any wonder that I won't send my daughters to a overly religious school? I don't like legalism and I don't like it that my dd is not supposed to wear any of the tasteful gowns and dresses she has (and has worn to church) except maybe her Indian gowns or her Chinese gown. She has with her own money been buying gorgeous ball gowns at thrift stores (she wears anything from a 0-4 and adult women tend to outgrow those sizes rather quickly) and I even bought her a dress for Easter where she was standing up in front of the church singing in the youth choir. As I said, none of these dresses pass these ridiculous rules (which I didn't know about when I paid the money).

 

They say they do this to not have the guys sin. I am completely perplexed how come a view of her shoulders would cause sin or a glance at her knee. Those are definitely not the most attractive features on her (or on anybody since I think knees are sort of ugly and shoulders are okay on women but not the attractive feature they are on men). I remember some insane survey some time last year where just about every piece3 of clothing was making some guys sin.

 

I just think that I am fortunate that my teen wants to wear nice gowns and nice jewelry versus putting on dog collars (as another girl in the co-op does), having wild unkempt hair and a bad attitude (a boy in the same co-op), or paying more attention to her looks than her schoolwork (a few kids at least at this same co-op).

[TravelingChris]

I think I forgot to say that this is for a senior high school formal.

[Tree House Academy]

That does suck. :( I'm sorry! Any way you can call them on it and get your $ back?

[SonshineLearner]

You could make a "garbage bag" wrap for her! What is she suppose to wear? Maybe some dress up to her neck and down to her ankles?

 

I'm sorry! I'd be tempted to make some really funky duct tape dress.... but then... that's without giving it the proper time to settle.

 

Now, my 14 year old... has some serious cleavage... it's kinda hard to hide... it's just... out there... she's little (5') and to find a dress for her is difficult. I know, as I tried last time she had a dance!

 

Good Luck!

[PollyOR]

Chris, our girls are encouraged to wear a small cropped jacket/bolero.

[Tokyomarie]

Chris, our girls are encouraged to wear a small cropped jacket/bolero.

 

I like this idea. It's tasteful, fits the rules, but is still up-to-date.

 

I understand the frustration, though. Strapless or spaghetti-strap doesn't have to be trampy. My daughter's wedding dress was strapless. Now there were some strapless dresses she tried on that I felt were not tasteful at all, but the one she chose was truly classy and perfect for her.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Tokyomarie

[IsabelC]

IMO it's more what a girl does than what she wears that could potentially encourage the boys to "sin"! Spaghetti strap gown with a bolero sounds nice though.

[Susan C.]

Christina,

I feel your pain, and have been in the same place. I have a 10th grade dd. She is modest, but wants to be stylish. It seems that the most modest of the group dictate what everyone wears..... we haven't had the formal situation yet, but we had to buy long shorts and baggy shirts to wear to co-op. I try to have her not wear something offensive when going to group activities, but other than that, my rules are cover the three Bs and I'm good :)

[TravelingChris]

Yes, she has a bolero she bought to go with one of the dresses so that she could wear it to church. She just thinks that it is the wrong color for the season (the bolero is black and the dress is autumn yellow). I am trying to convince her to wear a shawl which is acceptable but she is fretting about it falling down and then being chastised.

 

And to the other poster, yes, we had problems with another co-op and dress. At least we got polo shirts there and could get them in the right size but no shorts for girls and we were in hot Florida.

 

I really, really don't get this obsession with covering the knees. Frankly, I always thought that well fitting jeans which go all the way to the ankle are usually considered a sexy thing for a curvy girl to wear. There weren't any rules at either co-op about that. I just hate having Christianity turned into a Talibanistic exercise of measuring this and covering that.

[Guest Katia]

I'm so with you on this one. The modesty thing gets really ugly around formal time and the most conservative people squeal the loudest. So they don't want to wear something; fine. That is their conviction. But, please leave us to our convictions of modesty and stop dictating the type of dress our daughters should wear.

 

Honestly, the last several years, our girls just had their own Spring Formal with some of their friends. It was a lot less stressful and they could wear their chosen dresses proudly and guilt-free, without feeling like they had broken some strange 'modesty' rule.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Now, my 14 year old... has some serious cleavage... it's kinda hard to hide... it's just... out there... she's little (5') and to find a dress for her is difficult. I know, as I tried last time she had a dance!

 

Good Luck!

 

My almost 14 is a 38DD, unless she is wearing a turtleneck, which she can't and won't do, there is gonna be some cleavage showing.

I despise legalism and to her despair she has encountered a fair amount of it and it isn't right. She is sweet and modest and wears mostly ankle length skirts and t-shirts with a scoop neckline, she can't, like me, wear high necklines but they are by NO means low.

Sorry, vent over, I was going for empathy but went a little overboard into my own issues. :D

The little bolero or sweater is a fabulous idea.

[MyThreeSons]

The rules are so stringent (no spaghetti straps, no strapless, no backless, nothing above the knees, etc. etc.. How about just saying tasteful and classy?

 

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I can say that "tasteful and classy" is too subjective. Our co-op has very specific dress code rules for this very reason. BTW, I saw in the news where a public school girl was sent home from her prom because her dress was too low cut, so it's not just fuddy-duddy homeschoolers who have such rules.

[DawnM]

I think the problem is that when you give some leeway some go overboard with it. So, one woman can wear the same dress and be modest and one can wear the same dress and be immodest. It is easier to say "No X clothing" than to monitor each one.

 

In boarding school we had to have our swim suits (had to be one piece) approved. We only paraded into the dorm mom's room individually so we would switch suits around so that they all looked very modest on whoever wore them and then switch back before the trip to the beach! :lol:

 

Dawn

[LinRTX]

I have an idea for the shawl. My daughter had to do this at Christmas. Once you lay the shawl over the shoulders, wrap the ends back around the arms and tie it in back. I then pinned the edges to the dress right where the spaghetti straps are. It is cute and stays put.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Linda

[laughing lioness]

I have an idea for the shawl. My daughter had to do this at Christmas. Once you lay the shawl over the shoulders, wrap the ends back around the arms and tie it in back. I then pinned the edges to the dress right where the spaghetti straps are. It is cute and stays put.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Linda

I agree. We did this for my oldests grad. Some of the other girls came in skin colored long sleeve tights under thier gowns -UGH. The shawl tied in the back is pretty and you can find a shawl in any color. We didn't even pin anything.

[Scuff]

I remember similar dress code rules in public school and extra curriculars. So it's not just hsers who have rules. :) "tasteful and modest" is too vague. I understand the frustration

[ChristusG]

It's a fine line to walk. While YOUR daughter my wear something tasteful, another girl may not. Therefore they must have hard and fast rules, spelled out in black and white, so that no one will walk in wearing something trampy. Another girl may wear something with spaghetti straps that is not tasteful. Then, when she gets chastised for it, she will say "Well, so-and-so is wearing spaghetti straps and she's not being chastised." Then it will turn into a back and forth about why someone is allowed to wear something while another is not. I understand your frustration though. But some girls would push the limits.

[smrtmama]

IMO it's more what a girl does than what she wears that could potentially encourage the boys to "sin"! Spaghetti strap gown with a bolero sounds nice though.

 

I think we're all responsible for our own actions and thoughts, and thusly are all responsible for our own "sin." I don't blame Harrison Ford for the lust in my heart when I see him in Indiana Jones. ;)

[Miss Marple]

but I can say that "tasteful and classy" is too subjective

 

I agree with this. We, too, have had to institute clear, specific dress guidelines for our co-op because there is always someone who thinks that showing 2 inches of cleavage is classy (sometimes it's the moms:glare:). Or a young lady may think it's tasteful to be billowing over the sides of a tight, push-up style dress. And we don't just do this for the girls - nothing grosses me out more than seeing some young man's hairy armpits in my face as he bends over my desk to ask a question, nor do I appreciate knowing what brand of boxers he wears.

 

I'm sure your daughter looks lovely, but unfortunately someone in the past probably pushed the envelope of "good taste" too far and hence the rules.

[Ellie]

It isn't just homeschoolers who have such rules; most churches I've attended over the last 35 years would have the same rules for girls or women.

 

FTR, when my mother went to the prom at her public high school, girls were not allowed to wear strapless or spaghetti-strap gowns.

[novagirl]

I hear ya. I hate those rules too. I hear women in our homeschool groups talking to others about how certain women who dress only in dresses and long skirts and have a ton of children are EXCELLENT witnesses for Christ.

Yes, what you wear determines how Holy you are to them I guess.

 

I've spent too many years following what "OTHERS" think or feel a good christian girl should look like. :glare: Finally free to follow Christ and be myself!:)

 

Btw..last night was a prom for one of the schools in our area. About 30 to 45 couples were at the restaurant and really only one dress I saw was a bit questionable. And these were (gasp!) PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS!:lol:

Edited April 25, 2010 by novagirl

[Miss Marple]

Btw..last night was a public school prom for one of the schools in our area. About 30 to 45 couples were at the restaurant and really only one dress I saw was a bit questionable. And these were (gasp!) PUBLIC SCHOO

 

On the flip side, dh went to get a haircut on prom day. He was aghast at the dresses the girls were wearing. The lady cutting his hair said that by the time her daughter gets old enough to go to prom, and if the dresses get skimpier every year, her daughter would be going to prom naked!

[SonshineLearner]

I agree. We did this for my oldests grad. Some of the other girls came in skin colored long sleeve tights under thier gowns -UGH. The shawl tied in the back is pretty and you can find a shawl in any color. We didn't even pin anything.

 

Maybe they were in ballet and use to this? Hmmm

[Mejane]

It's not about the clothes; it's about the attitude one has while wearing them. A girl who's looking for that kind of attention will get it if she's wearing a potato sack. A "nice" girl wearing spaghetti straps sends off a totally different vibe.

[novagirl]

It's not about the clothes; it's about the attitude one has while wearing them. A girl who's looking for that kind of attention will get it if she's wearing a potato sack. A "nice" girl wearing spaghetti straps sends off a totally different vibe.

 

 

Yes, this is very true!

[Mejane]

I don't blame Harrison Ford for the lust in my heart when I see him in Indiana Jones. ;)

 

Oh, come on... he knows exactly what he's doing to us by wearing that hat. :D

[novagirl]

Oh, come on... he knows exactly what he's doing to us by wearing that hat. :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Veritaserum]

I grew up with and enforce certain modesty rules with my children, but it is certainly possile to be modest AND current/fashionable. I would feel as if I were wearing a burka if I wore shapeless shirts and long skirts or one of hose pioneer-looking dresses. I'm sure there are girls/women who feel attractive and happy in those clothes, but I think I would just feel depressed. :p

 

Our rules for modesty (male and female) are to have at least a cap sleeve and cover at least to the top of the knee. We wear shorts, skirts, pants and I love my jeans. :) I would be ok with my girls wearing spaghetti straps with a shawl or little jacket. I think a silky shawl looks very classy. :)

[Stacy in NJ]

that I'm a conservative and a Christian but not a conservative Christian.

 

The fixation on preventing sin in boys and men by forcing dress codes on young women is just creepy, imo.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hear ya. I hate those rules too. I hear women in our homeschool groups talking to others about how certain women who dress only in dresses and long skirts and have a ton of children are EXCELLENT witnesses for Christ.

Yes, what you wear determines how Holy you are to them I guess.

 

I've spent too many years following what "OTHERS" think or feel a good christian girl should look like. :glare: Finally free to follow Christ and be myself!:)

 

Btw..last night was a prom for one of the schools in our area. About 30 to 45 couples were at the restaurant and really only one dress I saw was a bit questionable. And these were (gasp!) PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS!:lol:

 

But there is a good chance that these public school kids were following a dress code for their prom. At any formally organized event, there are usually rules like this. No one accuses public schools of having Christian legalism at these events. I would want to know the actual people in the co-op before deciding that they are doing it out of Christian legalism.

[FloridaLisa]

I have an idea for the shawl. My daughter had to do this at Christmas. Once you lay the shawl over the shoulders, wrap the ends back around the arms and tie it in back. I then pinned the edges to the dress right where the spaghetti straps are. It is cute and stays put.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Linda

 

My dd participated in Pure Fashion for two years. What a great organization. The girls used lots of wraps in lots of ways (not jackets; more of a loose scarf-shawl thing) with the ball gowns during the fashion show. Chris, it *is* hard when you know your dd's heart and it is sooooo much more conservative than the hundreds of dresses on the rack. I'm sure your dd will be beautiful!

 

Lisa

[KinderSafari]

It would be nice to hear a response here from a guys perspective.

 

20 years ago in college I heard a talk at a christian group from a guy on why women should be modest. He talked about how what the girls wore distracted him from who they were. Guys are (generally) very visual. He encouraged all the young women in the room NOT to dress visually tempting as a HELP to guys. This was like a 1/2 hour talk, and it was really good to hear from the college guys perspective.

 

My daughter is now 13, has a perfect body, and it has been very difficult to find things that are both attractive and modest. And don't even talk about how difficult it has been to find swimsuits that way! :) But we do it. For the guys. To keep them focused on HER, her personality, who she is, etc. - not be distracted by her body - to put temptation out there for GUYS to sin with their minds.

 

It's not because of any dress code. It's because of a choice we make to keep the temptation down.

 

I want comments about my daughter to be about how nice she is, how sweet, how kind - not just how hot she looks. Sure she can look nice too, but I hope the comments are about how beautiful she is, and followed with character attributes about her being a nice person.

 

I overhear a lot of the kids talking about other kids and it focuses on their looks and bodies - not their personalities.

Edited April 25, 2010 by KinderSafari

[Ohdanigirl]

Now, my 14 year old... has some serious cleavage... it's kinda hard to hide... it's just... out there... she's little (5') and to find a dress for her is difficult. I know, as I tried last time she had a dance!

 

Good Luck!

 

I had this problem (still) growing up. I hated the face that I was always getting harrassed at school when wearing T-shirts that women wear. The teachers said had to wear x-large mens shirt. The problem was that they said that if I lifted my arms all the way up in a stretch you could almost see my tummy.:confused: You know how high school girls love walking around like that. The worst part was that the ladies with smaller chests were walking around in tiny tank tops with their bells showing while their arms were down. My dad jumped on that double standard real quick and added a "if you'd like to pay for her cloths you might get some say so in what she wears" other wise if it isn't against the printed school dress code, plus enforced on all, call my lawyer.:lol:

 

It still gets me upset to think about it. I was never one to try to draw attention to my breast. Luckily they were a bit scared of my dad.:D

 

Danielle

[jujsky]

The whole idea of a girl's attire leading a guy to sin makes me want to throw up. Seriously? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? That is right along the same lines as a woman getting raped and people say she asked for it because she was wearing skimpy clothing. Guys are responsible for their own actions; blaming their sin on a girl's attire is a total cop-out.

[fivetails]

Y'know, even with rules....things still don't always make sense.

 

Say the rule states "no spaghetti strap dresses"... okay, so tell me - exactly how wide [measurement?] does a strap have to be before it's not considered 'spaghetti' anymore?

 

these strings would qualify as spaghetti, yes?

 

hmm...a little wider...still spaghetti?

 

what if we double them up?

 

is this still too skinny?

 

are we covering enough shoulder now to get out of the spaghetti category?

 

what if we put feathers on it?

 

See where I'm going? :tongue_smilie:

[smrtmama]

Oh, come on... he knows exactly what he's doing to us by wearing that hat. :D

 

He was my first love. Had to marry a cop to find a guy manly enough to live up to Indy. ;)

[KinderSafari]

Absolutely guys are responsible for themselves.

We all need to hold every thought captive and deal with it.

 

He wasn't saying it's WOMEN'S FAULTS for doing that AT ALL.

 

What he was saying, is that with him and the friends he knew and the guys he grew up with, etc. etc. they are VERY VISUAL. Their thoughts and brains are instantly drawn to the immodesty and their thoughts get cranking. It is difficult for them - RIGHT OR WRONG - to focus on the personality of the girl when her boobs are half-hung out of her dress.

 

That's all.

 

Everyone's line is different. Like someone else pointed out, that's why schools make a black and white line. They try to help keep things in check.

[AndyJoy]

Y'know, even with rules....things still don't always make sense.

 

Say the rule states "no spaghetti strap dresses"... okay, so tell me - exactly how wide [measurement?] does a strap have to be before it's not considered 'spaghetti' anymore?

 

these strings would qualify as spaghetti, yes?

 

hmm...a little wider...still spaghetti?

 

what if we double them up?

 

is this still too skinny?

 

are we covering enough shoulder now to get out of the spaghetti category?

 

what if we put feathers on it?

 

See where I'm going? :tongue_smilie:

 

Funny! :D The summer camp I went to specified that straps on shirts had to be at least 2 fingers wide.

[Mejane]

Say the rule states "no spaghetti strap dresses"... okay, so tell me - exactly how wide [measurement?] does a strap have to be before it's not considered 'spaghetti' anymore?

 

 

 

Yes, are we talking angel hair or fettucine? ;)

[KnitWit]

I'm with you Chris! I ALSO agree with the behavior thing. We saw that play out when the eldest dd of one of the most vocal families we know on *what is and is not modest* went to a party with her....hmm...what was he? They were't dating OR courting (rolling my eyes)....ANYWAY...eldest dd sat at his feet and rubbed her hand up and down his leg like a kitten the whole time.

 

OOOOhhhhhhkkkkaaaayyyyyyyy

 

I GUARANTEE that turned that guy, and probably others there, *on* more than *MY* daughters bare shoulders EVER would have!!! LOL!

 

(Same family, youngest dd got onto my youngest dd, who was about 10 and FLAT chested at the time, for wearing a high back halter top type sundress to church...and yet her older sisters bought strapless dresses for a dance and sewing *ribbon straps* on, for modesty. Don't get me wrong, as long as they aren't hanging out top or bottom, I don't care WHAT those girls wear/wore...it's the *double standard*)

[ConnieB]

I totally get where you're coming from....but the problem is that your opinion of what "tasteful and classy" can be very different from what another family considers tasteful. I've seen so many comments about this or that actress being dressed so classy, but in my personal opinion they look like tramps.

 

It's yet another example of how our country's class has deteriorated so that we no longer have anything close to a common standard for things. I dare say that even on this board where we all have some things in common there is a vast difference in what each family considers acceptable.

 

How about adding a small bolero style jacket that would cover the spaghetti straps thus making the outfit "legal" but not compromising the rest of the look of the outfit? Not sure how much time you have, or your personal sewing skills, but a decent seamstress could make one in a couple of hours. You could probably ask around your hs support group and find someone who sews.

 

Yes, that's a compromise that shouldn't have to be, but at least she doesn't have to resort to a frumpy 20 year old bridesmaid reject!

 

I'd love to see photos if you're willing to share. We're still a couple years away from senior prom, but I'm already in the planning stages, lol. I'm a seamstress, but very slow, lol.

[KnitWit]

Yes, opinions are all different....so you say *tasteful, classy and modest* and then you privately deal with the ones who translate that as trampy.....NOT make restrictive rules for the whole group. :)

 

Just my .02

[KnitWit]

My dd participated in Pure Fashion for two years. What a great organization. The girls used lots of wraps in lots of ways (not jackets; more of a loose scarf-shawl thing) with the ball gowns during the fashion show. Chris, it *is* hard when you know your dd's heart and it is sooooo much more conservative than the hundreds of dresses on the rack. I'm sure your dd will be beautiful!

 

Lisa

 

Thanks for the Pure Fashion link Lisa! It is refreshing to see a religious organization encouraging modesty without defining it as skirts to the floor or dresses.

[novagirl]

I'm with you Chris! I ALSO agree with the behavior thing. We saw that play out when the eldest dd of one of the most vocal families we know on *what is and is not modest* went to a party with her....hmm...what was he? They were't dating OR courting (rolling my eyes)....ANYWAY...eldest dd sat at his feet and rubbed her hand up and down his leg like a kitten the whole time.

 

OOOOhhhhhhkkkkaaaayyyyyyyy

 

I GUARANTEE that turned that guy, and probably others there, *on* more than *MY* daughters bare shoulders EVER would have!!! LOL!

 

(Same family, youngest dd got onto my youngest dd, who was about 10 and FLAT chested at the time, for wearing a high back halter top type sundress to church...and yet her older sisters bought strapless dresses for a dance and sewing *ribbon straps* on, for modesty. Don't get me wrong, as long as they aren't hanging out top or bottom, I don't care WHAT those girls wear/wore...it's the *double standard*)

 

 

:rolleyes: I just LOOVE attiudes like that!:glare: They must have lots of extra free time to take on the job of "Fashion Police".

[Orthodox6]

Although I don't know where the religious groups referenced are coming from, as I don't belong to one like those, I have to point out that "modesty" and "legalism" do not belong in the same sentence. They are not related concepts.

 

Btw, I always thought that yellow and black combined are considered "sharp" and "smart" for an ensemble. If dd has to wear the bolero in order to fulfill the group's requirements, I'm sure it would look great ! Perhaps some trendy black shoes would pull it together to her taste ?

[KnitWit]

I just thought I'd add also, I have four boys and they are being taught it is their job to NOT LOOK if some girl's appearance is a temptation. They can stand and stare, or they can walk away.

 

I don't agree with the blame shifting either. Now, I teach my girls to be aware of how they are dressing and how they are acting and WHY. If a girl's motive is to entice, she can do it in a box. ;)

[novagirl]

I just thought I'd add also, I have four boys and they are being taught it is their job to NOT LOOK if some girl's appearance is a temptation. They can stand and stare, or they can walk away.

 

I don't agree with the blame shifting either. Now, I teach my girls to be aware of how they are dressing and how they are acting and WHY. If a girl's motive is to entice, she can do it in a box. ;)

 

 

These thoughts are really balanced. I like them!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

The whole idea of a girl's attire leading a guy to sin makes me want to throw up. Seriously? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? That is right along the same lines as a woman getting raped and people say she asked for it because she was wearing skimpy clothing. Guys are responsible for their own actions; blaming their sin on a girl's attire is a total cop-out.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Thank you for saying this. It needed to be said.

[RoughCollie]

Well, my DD just went to a public school JROTC military ball this weekend.

 

All dresses had to fall below the knee. Straps were highly encouraged. Only one of about 100 girls there wore a strapless dress.

 

DD's dress had an empire waistline and 1" wide halter straps that fastened in the usual strap place on the back (ie., was not tied at the back of the neck). It looked like something a goddess would wear, to me. DD definitely did not look like she dances on tables for a living.

 

During our shopping trip, we saw lots of dresses with spaghetti straps, too. I do not recall seeing any formal dresses that had sleeves or wide straps, and neither does DD.

 

In fact, none of the girls at the ball wore dresses that had either sleeves or wide straps.

 

Gosh, if there has to be a rule, I vote for it being that no female should be allowed to wear spaghetti straps with a regular bra. The bra straps show, and that is just wrong. That is my biggest pet peeve, and as a result, DD has lots of strapless bras in her wardrobe.

Edited April 25, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Mrs Mungo]

It's not about the clothes; it's about the attitude one has while wearing them. A girl who's looking for that kind of attention will get it if she's wearing a potato sack. A "nice" girl wearing spaghetti straps sends off a totally different vibe.

 

I totally agree. I wore an off the shoulder dress to my prom and looked perfectly chaste. I'm with you, Chris.