I hate fuddy duddy homeschooler rules

[Cheryl in NM]

I think it's sad to deny that women have sexual feelings and that their dress is in some part an expression of those instincts. To tell a girl that she needs to dress modestly to prevent sin in men is to deny and shame the girl about her own feelings. I'm very much in favor of women dressing modestly. I do so myself. But, creating "rules" with out context is just stupid imo.

 

When I was talking about cultures where both women and men are more comfortable with more skin, I wasn't refering to tribes in the amazon. I was reflecting on time spent in parts of Europe. :tongue_smilie: IMO it is rational to compare ourselves to Europeans.

 

I'm not sure why you brought up rape. I assume it's refering to another post, not mine.

 

I mentioned rape because I don't believe the way a woman dresses causes a man to rape her. It was a side-thought to my response to you.:)

 

I've never been to Europe, sorry I missed your intent. I guess there are cultures that are more comfortable with seeing more skin.

 

I don't think I'm presenting my case very well here. :001_huh: Women should not dress modestly to prevent men from sinning. Women should dress modestly out of respect for themselves and men. I still don't think I got my point across. I guess I'll just agree to disagree and move on.:tongue_smilie:

[Stacy in NJ]

Women should dress modestly out of respect for themselves and men.

 

 

This is where we disagree. Women can dress in a provocative manner and still respect themselves if they aren't ashamed of the feelings this may provoke in men.

[Cheryl in NM]

This is where we disagree. Women can dress in a provocative manner and still respect themselves if they aren't ashamed of the feelings this may provoke in men.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't understand that. I don't feel respectable when I dress provocatively. I feel like I am "open for business". I only want to instill those feelings in my husband; I view anything else as a betrayal of my marriage. But that's just me; that's why I said I will just have to agree to disagree. I recognize that these are my personal feelings and others have different feelings. I am not condemning anyone. I was just stating my personal beliefs.:)

[justamouse]

 

Asta Said: I have observed a remarkable similarity between the ultra conservative standards for dressing I see in some Christian Sects with those I see in conservative Muslim sects.

Which means. . . nothing. Merely that even markedly different religions can overlap in their understanding of modesty.

 

 

It is a fundamentalist mindset in either case. And yes, there are militant Christian sects who choose to defend themselves with guns and dress their women 'modestly', and those who are home grown terrorists. It all leads back to fundamentalism. Which is why it's so dangerous.

Edited April 27, 2010 by justamouse
spelling

[TravelingChris]

I wish I had a knew how to get the photo of the dresses my dd was considering. I don't think hardly anyone would consider any of her dresses provacative or immodest. Not unless you deem anything that shows the shoulders or neck to be provacative. Like one of the previous posters said, my daughter was not and will not be showing any cleavage. The one dress she was (and maybe still considering with a shawl) is a full length, beautiful light yellow 1950's style dress that has spaghetti straps but covers up her very well indeed- there is no cleavage problem at all and there is zero provacativeness in the outfit nor will there be with my dd. I have great trouble in having this 16.75 yo even speak to a male teen let alone act in any suggestive way.

 

My philosophy for older teenhood is asa preparation for adulthood. In our circles, that includes balls and other formal occasions where evening dress is worn. I have been to many functions. I don't see men unable to control themselves with the women at these events. The only behavior that seems somewhat uncontrolled by some is alcohol consumption.

 

I just don't get it. Do the people who believe they need to protect their sons so strictly never go to stores, amusement parks, athletic fields, etc? Because I see clothing a whole lot more provocative than strapless or spaghetti strapped dresses. I see very tight pants and shorts, I see necklines that plunge way down and show just about everything, I see bikini tops not at the pool, etc.

[Mrs Mungo]

I've never been to Europe, sorry I missed your intent. I guess there are cultures that are more comfortable with seeing more skin.

 

 

But, that's the point of many people here. Saying "this long of a hemline" or "no shoulder" isn't a *Biblical* stance, it's a cultural stance.

[Orthodox6]

It is a fundamentalist mindset in either case. And yes, there are militant Christian sects who choose to defend themselves with guns and dress their women 'modestly', and those who are home grown terrorists. It all leads back to fundamentalism. Which is why it's so dangerous.

 

So chalk me up as an pacifist, anti-gun, Greek Orthodox Christian terrorist who dresses modestly.

[Stacy in NJ]

I feel like I am "open for business". I only want to instill those feelings in my husband; I view anything else as a betrayal of my marriage. But that's just me; that's why I said I will just have to agree to disagree. I recognize that these are my personal feelings and others have different feelings. I am not condemning anyone. I was just stating my personal beliefs.:)

 

Occasionally, I dress up in a sexy way when dh and I go out for an evening or have a special event to attend. I definately don't feel like I'm "open for business", but I do feel attractive. You know, men can admire women, think they're sexy, find them attractive, and NOT necessary want to jump in bed with them. Not every sexy feeling is a case of sin. I also don't think it's a betrayal of my marriage if another man admires my physical appearance. I think your assigning "dirty" feelings or motives to, perhaps not completely innocent, but not necessarily sinful thoughts. I don't think every sexual thought a man, or woman, has is "sinful". But that's just me.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[justamouse]

But, that's the point of many people here. Saying "this long of a hemline" or "no shoulder" isn't a *Biblical* stance, it's a cultural stance.

 

Where did I hear that...it was on the news, I forget where but the European Christians were saying that they have none of these legalistic problems over there. The commentator said it IS America specific.

[Jenny in GA]

Occasionally, I dress up in a sexy way when dh and I go out for an evening or have a special event to attend. I definately don't feel like I'm "open for business", but I do feel attractive. You know, men can admire women, think they're sexy, find them attractive, and NOT necessary want to jump in bed with them. Not every sexy feeling is a case of sin. I also don't think it's a betrayal of my marriage if another man admires my physical appearance. I think your assigning "dirty" feelings or motives to, perhaps not completely innocent, but not necessarily sinful thoughts. I don't think every sexual thought a man, or woman, has is "sinful". But that's just me.

 

:iagree:

Thank you. That sums up the thoughts I've been thinking during these threads.

[Blessedfamily]

But, that's the point of many people here. Saying "this long of a hemline" or "no shoulder" isn't a *Biblical* stance, it's a cultural stance.

 

Speaking of cultural, this thread keeps reminding me of the church I went to as a teen, which taught the open-toed shoes were provocative, and they didn't care where in the world you were from.

 

I was about 16, sitting there thinking, "Sandals are forbidden? What about people from the Middle East?" Say a certain person whose name is on the church sign??????:001_huh:

 

But I digress. Not too many people are that extreme. (I hope.)

[Imprimis]

Speaking of cultural, this thread keeps reminding me of the church I went to as a teen, which taught the open-toed shoes were provocative, and they didn't care where in the world you were from.

 

I was about 16, sitting there thinking, "Sandals are forbidden? What about people from the Middle East?" Say a certain person whose name is on the church sign??????:001_huh:

 

But I digress. Not too many people are that extreme. (I hope.)

 

Unfortunately, people do use their own standards to judge others. Your example (as well as the spaghetti strap post that kicked off this spate of modesty threads) illustrates the fact that one person's chaste (or acceptable) is another person's provocative.

 

Which is why I posted the following in another thread:

 

My son is being taught that he, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. It is not his job to judge what someone else is wearing or to make assumptions about someone's character or motives based on her choice of clothing.

 

It's important to me that my son never falls into the trap of blaming others for what is clearly his personal responsibility.

 

I find it sad that someone would look differently upon someone or respect her less because she wears a dress with spaghetti straps to a prom.

 

I think it sends the wrong message to our young men when we make disparaging comments about someone's "lack of modesty." Modesty, as most of us would agree, is such a subjective subject. Instead of concentrating on something we have no control over---how others choose to dress, it makes more sense to me to focus on our sons' hearts.

[elegantlion]

Unfortunately, people do use their own standards to judge others. Your example (as well as the spaghetti strap post that kicked off this spate of modesty threads) illustrates the fact that one person's chaste (or acceptable) is another person's provocative.

 

Which is why I posted the following in another thread:

 

My son is being taught that he, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. It is not his job to judge what someone else is wearing or to make assumptions about someone's character or motives based on her choice of clothing.

 

It's important to me that my son never falls into the trap of blaming others for what is clearly his personal responsibility.

 

I find it sad that someone would look differently upon someone or respect her less because she wears a dress with spaghetti straps to a prom.

 

I think it sends the wrong message to our young men when we make disparaging comments about someone's "lack of modesty." Modesty, as most of us would agree, is such a subjective subject. Instead of concentrating on something we have no control over---how others choose to dress, it makes more sense to me to focus on our sons' hearts.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I commented on this earlier, but I think it's a shame that the underlying message is "You're a guy, you can't control yourself." That's not the message my son will receive from us. 95% of my friends in high school were guys. I'm quite sure I showed a little shoulder once in a while and somehow they managed to not hit on me.

 

I attended a church as a child that taught it was a sin to wear a skirt that was above your knees. It was the 70s!!! I was like 8, the style was just above the knee.

 

If we are created in the image of God, then yes we should rejoice that we find his creation attractive. There is a difference between that and lusting.