ADopted Russian Boy flown unaccompanied back to Russia

[Rebecca VA]

I appreciate your reply, Denise. It's quite possible there was more going on than anyone in the neighborhood saw when the family was around. What we saw were friendly, well-behaved children and a mother who was constantly running off with her fiance, leaving the kids alone. We also saw the mother's first husband occasionally and liked him very much; he seemed to be a stable, family-oriented guy, and we wondered why she would ever have left him.

 

Sorry to have offended anyone with my post. I really wrote it to mention that I'd worried about something similar (a mom abandoning her adopted child) happening to someone I knew.

[Denisemomof4]

For extended residential treatment, giving up parental rights and surrendering the child to social services IS sometimes the only way to get them that treatment. Few public or private insurances have long term mental health treatments available. Surrendering, disrupting the adoption is sometimes the best choice that the parent can make...for everyone involved, including the child.

 

Yes. has anyone looked at the prices of those facilities???

[Denisemomof4]

I appreciate your reply, Denise. It's quite possible there was more going on than anyone in the neighborhood saw when the family was around. What we saw were friendly, well-behaved children and a mother who was constantly running off with her fiance, leaving the kids alone. We also saw the mother's first husband occasionally and liked him very much; he seemed to be a stable, family-oriented guy, and we wondered why she would ever have left him.

 

Sorry to have offended anyone with my post. I really wrote it to mention that I'd worried about something similar (a mom abandoning her adopted child) happening to someone I knew.

 

Rebecca, you didn't offend me and I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm just saying that I know I've been judged and people don't think I handle my daughter properly (she can NOT handle freedom so I don't give her any. I won't set her up for failure.) and they don't understand why she's parented differently. Her NEEDS are different. I really wanted to point out that she's such an angel around other people, to the point of using ME to look so angelic by hugging me and calling me mommy and telling me she loves me, all of it being an act for her audience. She's SO good, and then we get home and the behaviors have been impossible to deal with. Nobody would EVER believe what we deal with if they don't have the opportunity to witness it themselves.

 

Again, though, after some extremely bumpy roads, we've again made great headway and things are going well. Unfortunately, I've learned not to get too used to that.

[Tap]

Rebecca, you didn't offend me and I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm just saying that I know I've been judged and people don't think I handle my daughter properly (she can NOT handle freedom so I don't give her any. I won't set her up for failure.) and they don't understand why she's parented differently. Her NEEDS are different. I really wanted to point out that she's such an angel around other people, to the point of using ME to look so angelic by hugging me and calling me mommy and telling me she loves me, all of it being an act for her audience. She's SO good, and then we get home and the behaviors have been impossible to deal with. Nobody would EVER believe what we deal with if they don't have the opportunity to witness it themselves.

 

Again, though, after some extremely bumpy roads, we've again made great headway and things are going well. Unfortunately, I've learned not to get too used to that.

 

DD3 is like this. They loved her at her daycare. Remarking constantly how sweet she was with the babies. They couldn't understand why she was in behavior therapy at 30mo. Then ONE DAY, she cut loose on them. Throwing a huge tantrum, laying on the floor, slamming her head repeatedly into the concrete, clearing shelves with a swipe of her arm, kicking and punching anyone who came near her (she weighed 30lbs and wore 4T at this age) throwing the toys at the kids and screaming so loud they could hear her throughout the entire center (over the top of of 20+ kids in each classroom).

 

That was the day that her teach met me at the door with her eyes wide open saying that she now understood! After a 30 minute tirade, her light switch went back off and she was fine. Just like it never happened.

 

The teacher said she thought I was exaggerating and that I didn't 'get' how toddlers acted. She apologized that day. Then when I told her that I could see that episode last for 60+ minutes and there were days when she had similar episodes 10-15 times, she then understood.

[Denisemomof4]

DD3 is like this. They loved her at her daycare. Remarking constantly how sweet she was with the babies. They couldn't understand why she was in behavior therapy at 30mo. Then ONE DAY, she cut loose on them. Throwing a huge tantrum, laying on the floor, slamming her head repeatedly into the concrete, clearing shelves with a swipe of her arm, kicking and punching anyone who came near her (she weighed 30lbs and wore 4T at this age) throwing the toys at the kids and screaming so loud they could hear her throughout the entire center (over the top of of 20+ kids in each classroom).

 

That was the day that her teach met me at the door with her eyes wide open saying that she now understood! After a 30 minute tirade, her light switch went back off and she was fine. Just like it never happened.

 

The teacher said she thought I was exaggerating and that I didn't 'get' how toddlers acted. She apologized that day. Then when I told her that I could see that episode last for 60+ minutes and there were days when she had similar episodes 10-15 times, she then understood.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

How old was she when you adopted her? Forgive me, I have a horrible memory.

 

I'm so thankful because I do have a few good friends that I tell EVERYTHING to. They are so supportive. Most adoptive mom's don't have that.

 

My daughter has come a long way. She's got a way to go and I'm never able to fully relax with her around other people, but somehow you just get used to things, KWIM?

[Tap]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

How old was she when you adopted her? Forgive me, I have a horrible memory.

 

I'm so thankful because I do have a few good friends that I tell EVERYTHING to. They are so supportive. Most adoptive mom's don't have that.

 

My daughter has come a long way. She's got a way to go and I'm never able to fully relax with her around other people, but somehow you just get used to things, KWIM?

 

She is my great niece. When she got taken away from her mom at birth. The baby went to my mom at first, while we had to scramble to get licenced as a foster care. We are only 30 minutes away from where the mother lived, but in another state so there were some legal hoops to jump through. She came to us as a foster child at 5mo. We finalized on her when she was 2.5.

 

I have one friend who I can talk to but she doesn't really get it because her own dd is an sweet, easy going, little lady. My other friend who may understand because she has seen some of her actions, is adopted herself. I don't talk about the adoptive part to her because she has issues with being adopted and I think it bothers her if I say anything. I do have a friend whose dd has sensory issues, so she is a wealth of information dealing with that part of the puzzle.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Tap, tap, tap

[LibraryLover]

Russia is sufferring in so many ways. I am as liberal as they come, but this will be used against the US because we are so open with our statistics and they are so mum. We do not know how many Russian families have tried to cope with these ill children who may been *dumped* all over Russia. Russia has a huge problem with poverty, FAS, and oher sick children, and with few schools for FAS children or even children with what the US considers simpler needs, like CP, certain heart conditions etc etc. Russia might be stopping adoptions to save face but that only means more and more children will linger in hell. Russia, sadly, has few plans for these children. As it is, children who were raised in orphan (captivity) run through the ciites and are in great need of everything. They are a huge burden on the law.

 

The issue of orphans and ill orphans is a *huge* problem in Russia.

Edited April 10, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Denisemomof4]

She is my great niece. When she got taken away from her mom at birth. The baby went to my mom at first, while we had to scramble to get licenced as a foster care. We are only 30 minutes away from where the mother lived, but in another state so there were some legal hoops to jump through. She came to us as a foster child at 5mo. We finalized on her when she was 2.5.

 

I have one friend who I can talk to but she doesn't really get it because her own dd is an sweet, easy going, little lady. My other friend who may understand because she has seen some of her actions, is adopted herself. I don't talk about the adoptive part to her because she has issues with being adopted and I think it bothers her if I say anything. I do have a friend whose dd has sensory issues, so she is a wealth of information dealing with that part of the puzzle.

 

that's right, I do remember now. But how sad is it that she has such issues, when she was cared for at such a young age? I do hope things get better for you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Nicole M]

Russia is a big fat mess right now. I am as liberal as they come, but this will be used against the US because we are so open with our statistics and they are so mum. We do not know how many Russian families have tried to cope with these ill children who may been *dumped* all over Russia. Russia has a huge problem with poverty, FAS, and oher sick children, and with few schools for FAS children or even children with what the US considers simpler needs, like CP, certain heart conditions etc etc. Russia might be stopping adoptions to save face but that only means more and more children will linger in hell. Russia, sadly, has few plans for these children. As it is, children who were raised in orphan (captivity) run through the ciites and are in great need of everything. They are a huge burden on the law.

 

The issue of orphans and ill orphans is a *huge* problem in Russia. Huge. Russia know it, but this crazy American family takes the heat (momentarily) off of them.

 

Yes. And this may sound dramatically "out there," but I honestly think that Russia is still recovering from the massive losses, two generations later, of WWII. Huge brain drain on top of the horrendous loss of life during the war. It's a sad and desperate situation.

[Tap]

that's right, I do remember now. But how sad is it that she has such issues, when she was cared for at such a young age? I do hope things get better for you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Yep, amazing what a dose of genetics and then 9months of marinating in 64oz of Pepsi several times a day, constant meals of fast food, alchohol and pot in the evening, stirred up with huge doses of stress, does to a baby. :(

[LibraryLover]

Yes. And this may sound dramatically "out there," but I honestly think that Russia is still recovering from the massive losses, two generations later, of WWII. Huge brain drain on top of the horrendous loss of life during the war. It's a sad and desperate situation.

 

I don't think your thoughts are 'out there'. Russia has fed some of it's greatest citizens to the dogs. One could start with pogroms, which makes the KKK look like preschoolers who just need a nap.

[Happy2BaMom]

...and it reminds me why my dh and I never made that final step to adopting a Russian/thereabouts child. Yes, I know a few people who have had the *dream* experiences...kid comes into home at age 5 or 8 or 12 and, a few bumps on the road later, fits in great with the family and takes off.

 

Then there's the more typical story...like that of a casual acquaintance of mine, who had three great bio kids and wanted to adopt a fourth from an orphanage, to help a child....lots of love to go around. Great SAHM, great family, much happiness. They brought home an 18-month-old boy from Ukraine.

 

Flash forward two years. Three-year-old boy cannot. be. left. alone. EVER. Mom has to sleep in his room to keep him from hurting her other, older children during the night. Pets had to be given away. Said child is in five different kinds of therapy, consuming all of mom's time, focus, energy and quite a bit of money. Mom is in treatment for PTSD. Life is h*ll all around.

 

My dh and I eventually decided that, with our ages (we didn't meet until 35 & 40) and out two young children (7 & 4) that we couldn't risk taking a potential risk like that on.

 

But still my heart sometimes squeezes when I think about adopting another child...we are respite foster parents, so perhaps God will bring the right child to me that way. Dunno, the risk factor for any adoption can be huge.

 

Big, enormous :grouphug: to those posters who are going through situations similar to what I described above. FWIW, there's probably FASD involved with your kiddos. Of all the kids we've respite fostered, the FASD ones are the most crazed. Unfortunately, there's a lot of them around it seems.

[LibraryLover]

[quote name=Happy2BaMom;1621659

the FASD ones are the most crazed. Unfortunately' date=' there's a lot of them around it seems.[/quote]

 

Sigh. Yes. It's heartbreaking.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My good friend has two adoptive boys from the former Soviet Union (different countries). Both have RAD, one more severely than the other. When they adopted them about 10 years ago, they were required to get American citizenship for the children at the same time as the adoption went through. This was because there was a number of "Russian" adopted teens who had lived all their lives in the US before being deported to the Russia when they became teens who committed felonies (and possibly misdemeanors - I can't remember for sure.) These kids were deposited in a country where they could not speak the language and had no cultural background and were supposed to survive. Problems with adoption from former Soviet bloc nations are not new.

[jujsky]

I haven't checked out the link yet.

 

What I will say is that children with RAD are the most likely ones to have disrupted adoptions, AND they will claim abuse by their aparents to anyone who will listen as well.

 

I'm not judging on this. I've read too many first hand accounts of adoptive parents whose children have RAD to such a degree that they are dangerous to the entire family, up to and including such issues as having a parent arrested for abuse (completely unfounded) setting fires to buildings, and preying on the other children in the home. I'm not saying EVERY child with RAD is this extreme, but I know that it does happen. These are the same kids that everyone else thinks is the perfect angel, so sweet, lovable, cuddly, well behaved. Even professionals are snowed, unless they have specific training in RAD.

 

News sources ALWAYS go for the sensational angle. Always. Regardless of what the truth is.

 

Considering how difficult international adoption is, not to mention expensive as well, I have to think that there's a heck of a lot more to this situation than any news source would bother to report.

 

:iagree: and I AM the mom of a child adopted from Russia. DH & I went into it well-educated about the risks, warning signs to look for with our child, and we were specific about what we wanted. We rejected an agency that tried to tell us that if we reject a referral that it will be difficult to get another one & that we could ONLY reject a referral if the child had severe medical needs. I asked if we could reject a referral if we didn't feel a connection to the child & they said no!!!!!! Sorry, I'm paying YOU thousands of dollars to make an adoption happen -- you can't force me to raise a child I feel no connection with. Needless to say, we walked out of that info meeting and found an agency that was willing to work with us and never forced you to accept a referral.

 

Many of the adoption agencies (the one I mentioned is a shining star of an example) are just in it to make money and don't care about the welfare of the children, the welfare of the family, whether or not they've made a good match, and how educated the parents are on post-adoption issues.

 

I'm not saying that this woman handled the situation in the best way possible, but the agency she used and the people she dealt with in Russia are equally to blame.

[LibraryLover]

This situation is beyond sad. I don't have a lot of hope his needs can be met. Although, given the attention this has created, it's possible that only because of it, will that cute little guy get the care he needs.

Edited April 11, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Orthodox6]

See, I don't consider having a child spend time in residential treatment as "surrendering them" ...unless, of course, the parents give up their rights and the child is made a permanent ward...

 

Many kids in group homes still have a lot of family involvement - therapy appts with family members, day/weekend passes to go home, etc...

 

I don't think that a parent who chooses residential treatment is automatically saying "I cannot provide the best care for this child" ... the parent is making the decision [and a hard one at that] to HELP their child...know what I mean?

 

:iagree: Unless someone "has walked in those shoes", the true situation of an individual family cannot truly be understood by outsiders.

 

I have four friends, each of whom has had a child admitted to residential treatment at some point. Always, always, this was the best choice for both the child and for the family. The decisions were made only after everything else had been attempted. Those four sets of parents prayed, cried, suffered, struggled, and did their research before making the choice. In all of the four cases, marked improvement occurred, and the child came home much happier and able to live as a family member.

[Impish]

>>>>>That means that the child MUST BE under visual supervision every.single.moment. No family I know of has that capability.

 

 

Uuummmmmmmm, that would be my family. Mainly ME.

 

 

 

>>>>>>Its heartbreaking. Sometimes love, counseling, therapy...its just not enough. Some of these children learn as pre-verbal infants not to bother crying, because their needs aren't met. Its actually wired into their brains.

 

 

My daughter, adopted at 14 MONTHS OF AGE, is now 7. She's been with us 6 years. She still doesn't come to me when she's hurt unless someone sees her get hurt and then they will bring her to me. I'm always asking her, "When/how/where did you get that???" when I see a huge bruise/scrape/injury.

I'm sorry, Denise. I was thinking that nobody could keep 'eyes on' 24/7 on their own, that it would take a staff to do so. Good heavens, when do you sleep? :grouphug:

 

A word about FASD.

 

Please keep in mind that like many things, it is a spectrum. Some children are slightly effected, some drastically. Not every child with FASD is without hope. Yes, some end up either in an institution or prison, but that's not all.

 

My BIL wasn't expected to live when he was born. Considered severely FASD. He ended up adopted by his foster parents that specialized in special needs.

 

He wasn't supposed to live on his own. 'They' said it wouldn't happen. At 25, he got his first apartment.

 

Now, there are times he lives on *shudder* chocolate milk and gummie bears, because he goes to the grocery store and gets overwhelmed.

 

But...he started a program, with a university, to teach young adults with FASD life skills. He was on24/7, carrying a pager, because sobriety is on of the requirements to stay in the program. He still deals with FASD, writes post its all over the place, and impulse control when it comes to money.

 

He travels around Canada, giving talks on FASD, and helped write a book.

 

For someone who wasn't supposed to live, he's living gloriously...and making a huge difference in so many lives.

 

Then there's the other, quieter life. One of a husband and father. A man who struggles to remember the details...whose daytimer in the months leading towards his wife's 30th birthday had monthly, then weekly, then daily reminders of the important (to his new wife, they'd only been married four months) day...and on the day, had "Make sure a GOOD gift is bought, and be romantic!!!"

 

That's my husband. Money impulse and short term memory is his issues, but he, unknowing of having FASD, built himself systems to compensate for it. I knew he had FASD before we were married. I mentioned it to him months later. He admitted that since meeting his bsibs he wondered about it. He then asked, if I had *known* he had FASD, why would I have married him?

 

Talk about a heart breaking moment.

 

FASD isn't a sentence of a life of hell. For some, yes, no lie. But for others...

 

Its recognizing the difference that is the hard part, because sometimes you just can't tell at that moment.

 

All I'm asking is for those in foster care, in adoption...please keep hope for these children. Someone needs to, until they're old enough to do it for themselves.

 

I get rabid when I see a pregnant woman drink. I do. FASD is the ONLY preventable birth defect. To put your need/desire for booze ahead of your baby's brain development...I think they should be charged and put in jail. Or have their butts kicked (after giving birth).

 

Children who are born addicted to cocaine and crack (and I think herion too, just not sure) have a better prognosis than those with FASD.

[rookie]

um... we ARE being judged. Russia has frozen all adoptions by Americans. Americans are judged more harshly than those in other countries. Maybe it's because we are seen to have all the advantages. Maybe it's because we portray ourselves as superior. If you don't think we, as a people, will be judged by this incident, you have your head in the sand.

 

 

I am not saying we won't be - just that we shouldn't be.

 

I think when you weigh the number of families in this country who DO adopt and DO take care of kids not wanted by families in their own country against the cases where something goes wrong, the balance hangs in favor Americans. It's just a favorite pasttime of some to bash ALL AMERICANS for EVERYTHING and overlook the rest of the world's behavior in anything. Oh, and God forbid Americans talked about any other group with a broad brush. We would be wrong then too.

[KnitWit]

Praying for all you ladies who live this daily.

 

I used to be more quick to judge people like this...until I had some *flesh and blood* friends who were transparent enough to share what they live in every single day. I wouldn't DARE judge now.

 

I have a friend who adopted from Africa....and found herself torn between this little boy...and protecting her birth children, and HERSELF, FROM HIM.

 

There are no easy *arm-chair quarterback* answers. May the Lord have mercy on each and every family living out these nightmares. I pray for endurance and love they never knew they had.

[Joanne]

I am a child advocate to the extreme. However, I think the complicated reality of adoption is still misunderstood/under-known.

 

I've had *2* adopted kids in my homeschool. They had biological, mental processing, behavioral and emotional issues that were insurmountable. I know personally of 2 adoptions (one made before more recent support and info) in which the child, in spite of care, love, discipline, and understanding, continued deeper and deeper into severe, deliquent behavior.

 

There is a reason that adopted children are abused, even in their adopted homes, at a significant rate. Combine abnormal, patholigical issues unequipped skill sets and lack of resources and these children will be abused.

 

I'm not saying what this mom did was ok. Not at all. I am saying that it is an extreme example of a very real, existing issue.

[Impish]

I am a child advocate to the extreme. However, I think the complicated reality of adoption is still misunderstood/under-known.

 

I've had *2* adopted kids in my homeschool. They had biological, mental processing, behavioral and emotional issues that were insurmountable. I know personally of 2 adoptions (one made before more recent support and info) in which the child, in spite of care, love, discipline, and understanding, continued deeper and deeper into severe, deliquent behavior.

 

There is a reason that adopted children are abused, even in their adopted homes, at a significant rate. Combine abnormal, patholigical issues unequipped skill sets and lack of resources and these children will be abused.

 

I'm not saying what this mom did was ok. Not at all. I am saying that it is an extreme example of a very real, existing issue.

I take issue with the bolded part. I would say that these children may be at greater risk for abuse, but would never flat out state that they will be.

 

I think its an insult to all the parents who work so hard, day in, day out to deal with the children who have these issues to make such a blanket statement.

 

Indeed, I would go further and state that a possible reason for dissolving an adoption is the fear that the parent might lose control and hurt the child...which means that they're dissolving the adoption not only for the safety of their existing families, but also for the best of the child in terms of ensuring that it never gets to the point of abuse in their homes either.

 

No parent is adequately equipped for a child that has abnormal, pathological issues, and a lack of resources be it an adopted or biological child. To state that the child WILL be abused is completely insulting.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Great. Just read this...

 

"He was adopted by Hansen on 18 September 2009 in Russia and eleven days later she formally changed his name to Artem Justin Hansen.

Astakhov said the boy told him that neither he nor Logan went to school, but played at home in America. The boy spoke of a grandmother who shouted at him."

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1264744/American-sends-adopted-Russian-boy-behavioural-problems.html#ixzz0kkB2e1P8

 

Why am I not surprised that there is likely to be some sort of homeschooling slant that comes out....

[Kate CA]

Now I have ignorant people telling me how I need to leave my daughter in our co=op classes, or let her play with the older kids. They just don't know how serious the repercussions of doing this would be. I tell my daughter all the time that I won't fail her. So I keep doing what's right FOR HER, and dealing with all the other adults and their constant questioning. It's just so tiring and draining sometimes.

 

I just want you to know that I think you are doing an amazing work of grace and love for this girl. Your trials are not unknown to God. Thank you for being so transparent. :grouphug:

[TracyR]

All I can say is I hope they string her up by her heals. I know adoptive families that have children with FAS ( which I am going to say this child most definitely has especially if his bio mom was an alchoholic, and I can tell by his face) and the families get them the help they need medically , physcologically etc.

I'm sorry but 7 months isn't giving it your all. There are so many resources out there available for children with this syndrome there just isn't any justification at all.

 

Now say she had this child since birth and things continued to get worse and worse and worse then one can say she gave it all. I don't even call 7 months trying.

I think there is just a lot going on with that story and I would hope that when an adoption agency does their case studies that they would make sure that an adoptive family has outside support albeit it friends, family, neighbors to lean on when the times get tough.

 

If things were that bad she should of given up her parental rights here, I mean she was his mother now he was legally adopted.

Evidently Russia needs to have families stay a bit longer than 4 days to make up their mind.

In all actually you would be amazed at the families that adopt for ' looks'. I once was watching some adoption show on TLC quite some time ago and there were two women who were adopting from Russia. The one mom was a mom who had a decent job, was single and really wanted a child. The second family was pure fake and phony. They lived in a fancy neighborhood with a big car, big house, they had two kids of their own and this woman was the most superficial person I ever saw. The single mom who adopted bonded very quickly with her daughter. The little girl never cried and they were so happy. The second family it just made me sad and want to puke. As soon as they handed over the baby it began to cry and wanted back with its care givers, and the woman acted like she had no clue as to what to do with a crying baby ( I almost assumed her other two must of been brought up by nannies or something). She treated her like a toy it almost made me puke. I actually felt sorry for this little baby that was getting ready to be adopted. I could just envision them getting home and her handing this child off to someone so she couldn't be bothered. I personally feel that there are some families that adopt outside of the US just to say they did it and nothing more. Almost like another one of those status symbols.

 

Its sad to say. There are those who adopt all for the right reasons. I know MANY families that have adopted children with special needs from outside the country. They have their good days and their bad days, but they are awesome parents.

If this lady had enough money to adopt from outside of our country (which by the way is WAY more expensive then adopting a US child) then she had the money to get him the help he needed. If she didn't then she had no business adopting a child.

Edited April 11, 2010 by TracyR

[Mejane]

I am not saying we won't be - just that we shouldn't be.

 

 

 

That's exactly what I meant. I think we're some of the most generous people on the planet, but a few, like this woman, make us look like lunatics.

[Denisemomof4]

All I can say is I hope they string her up by her heals. I know adoptive families that have children with FAS ( which I am going to say this child most definitely has especially if his bio mom was an alchoholic, and I can tell by his face) and the families get them the help they need medically , physcologically etc.

I'm sorry but 7 months isn't giving it your all. There are so many resources out there available for children with this syndrome there just isn't any justification at all.

 

Now say she had this child since birth and things continued to get worse and worse and worse then one can say she gave it all. I don't even call 7 months trying.

I think there is just a lot going on with that story and I would hope that when an adoption agency does their case studies that they would make sure that an adoptive family has outside support albeit it friends, family, neighbors to lean on when the times get tough.

 

 

 

Tracy, none of us know what this woman went through. Poor judgment is obvious, but maybe it was out of fear. Maybe she awoke to her son standing over her with a knife. Maybe he killed an animal, or many animals. Maybe he was so out of control that she feared for HIS life, fearing she couldn't keep him from doing serious personal harm, or maybe she feared for HER life. I believe the news article said she needed to do this for her family and friends. SOMETHING must have happened for her to say this. Now it COULD be that she was just stupid. But people don't endure the long, painful wait, spend huge amounts of money, and travel to a country TWICE and then just decide that it all was a mistake. Maybe he actually tried to kill someone. I've read SO MANY books out there and even at age 7, it's a real reality.

[Laurie4b]

Great. Just read this...

 

"He was adopted by Hansen on 18 September 2009 in Russia and eleven days later she formally changed his name to Artem Justin Hansen.

Astakhov said the boy told him that neither he nor Logan went to school, but played at home in America. The boy spoke of a grandmother who shouted at him."

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1264744/American-sends-adopted-Russian-boy-behavioural-problems.html#ixzz0kkB2e1P8

 

Why am I not surprised that there is likely to be some sort of homeschooling slant that comes out....

 

Other sources said they were prepping him for entry into a regular school...

[Denisemomof4]

I just want you to know that I think you are doing an amazing work of grace and love for this girl. Your trials are not unknown to God. Thank you for being so transparent. :grouphug:

 

aaawww, thank you. I sure make my mistakes but I do try my hardest...

:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

I put the blame solidly on adoption agencies.

 

There are some children who just cannot be parented in families. I believe there are some who are better off in group care.

 

No, I don't think sending a child back on his own was the right way to go about it, but what if this woman knew no other way?

 

Frankly, I would like to see regulation that required agencies to educate parents thoroughly in RAD prior to adoption, to evaluate for RAD, and to have post-adoption support that included plans to prevent disruption but also to support it if it became clear that the child could not attach. A situation such as this mother faced with a constantly violent and dangerous child is untenable for most families to handle. (and you can read that they were naive and thought "love would be enough" and that they did not have good support services even the first year after adoption.)

 

Some people in this thread have made blanket statements about what kind of help is available; it varies by state, and sometimes by county. Some areas have no professionals at all trained in dealing with RAD and some kids with RAD just cannot be helped to the extent that it is safe for them to remain with families, no matter how much trained help is available.

[EthiopianFood]

Tracy, none of us know what this woman went through. Poor judgment is obvious, but maybe it was out of fear. Maybe she awoke to her son standing over her with a knife. Maybe he killed an animal, or many animals. Maybe he was so out of control that she feared for HIS life, fearing she couldn't keep him from doing serious personal harm, or maybe she feared for HER life. I believe the news article said she needed to do this for her family and friends. SOMETHING must have happened for her to say this. Now it COULD be that she was just stupid. But people don't endure the long, painful wait, spend huge amounts of money, and travel to a country TWICE and then just decide that it all was a mistake. Maybe he actually tried to kill someone. I've read SO MANY books out there and even at age 7, it's a real reality.

 

I think people are arguing two different things. The only part that is offensive to me is how she chose to disrupt this adoption. She couldn't bring him to the agency? Did she try calling child protection? I guess we will just have to wait for more details.

[Denisemomof4]

I put the blame solidly on adoption agencies.

 

There are some children who just cannot be parented in families. I believe there are some who are better off in group care.

 

No, I don't think sending a child back on his own was the right way to go about it, but what if this woman knew no other way?

 

Frankly, I would like to see regulation that required agencies to educate parents thoroughly in RAD prior to adoption, to evaluate for RAD, and to have post-adoption support that included plans to prevent disruption but also to support it if it became clear that the child could not attach. A situation such as this mother faced with a constantly violent and dangerous child is untenable for most families to handle. (and you can read that they were naive and thought "love would be enough" and that they did not have good support services even the first year after adoption.)

 

Some people in this thread have made blanket statements about what kind of help is available; it varies by state, and sometimes by county. Some areas have no professionals at all trained in dealing with RAD and some kids with RAD just cannot be helped to the extent that it is safe for them to remain with families, no matter how much trained help is available.

 

Excellent points, Laurie. If there's one thing I wish I had time to do, it was to change the laws to make education mandated if you're adopting. FOSTER PARENTS GET MORE TRAINING AND EDUCATION THAN A FOREVER ADOPTIVE HOME. How screwed up is that? I had so much anger at my agency earlier on that I wouldn't even call them for help or advice.

 

I was on my quest to help my daughter on my own. I tried so hard and have given up. I've done probably thousands of hours of research, tried therapists, etc. and NOTHING helped. Even at my dd's young age, SHE HAS A CHOICE TO GET BETTER and until SHE made that decision, nothing was going to work. Not many understand this. I called all over the state to try to get her help. Half the people didn't even return my phone calls, even though I left messages begging for help and crying. Even last fall I was trying to get her help again and even considered disruption. The places I called wanted to coach me on my parenting :confused: and wouldn't even really work with her. SHE'S THE ONE WHO NEEDS HELP AND HEALING!!! HELLO??!!!!

 

I tried many methods I read about and finally threw everything out the door. I decided on my own how I was going to parent my daughter and what I would do - much against the popular advice for parents like me. Guess what? We're doing so much better now. I do know we have many challenges ahead of us. But I remember a time when about 9 months were pretty much smooth sailing and then many tragedies hit our family. It disrupted our lives, hers obviously included, and only now are we on our path to peace again and my dd is going quite well. Again.

 

If I knew what we were dealing with when my 14 month old dd was handed over to me, she would have had some healing much, much earlier. Instead, she was almost 4 before my research even gave me a clue as to what we were dealing with. It's DISGUSTING this happens.

 

I also think when you're paying these huge bucks for a child, there should be some form of support and help for the family post placement. It's HARD to find good help.

 

I could go on and on about the injustice of it all. But in the end, I'm still glad we have her and am thankful that once again things seem to be going well. I love her and I am a better person because I adopted her.

[Denisemomof4]

I think people are arguing two different things. The only part that is offensive to me is how she chose to disrupt this adoption. She couldn't bring him to the agency? Did she try calling child protection? I guess we will just have to wait for more details.

 

I agree what she did was offensive. Her family was involved as well. They must have been terribly desperate to go to such measures.

 

I'm not arguing here. My previous response was focused more on addressing the fear and desperation this woman obviously faced, and issues RAD kids could have had to cause this desperation.

[Joanne]

I take issue with the bolded part. I would say that these children may be at greater risk for abuse, but would never flat out state that they will be.

 

I think its an insult to all the parents who work so hard, day in, day out to deal with the children who have these issues to make such a blanket statement.

 

Indeed, I would go further and state that a possible reason for dissolving an adoption is the fear that the parent might lose control and hurt the child...which means that they're dissolving the adoption not only for the safety of their existing families, but also for the best of the child in terms of ensuring that it never gets to the point of abuse in their homes either.

 

No parent is adequately equipped for a child that has abnormal, pathological issues, and a lack of resources be it an adopted or biological child. To state that the child WILL be abused is completely insulting.

 

You are reading my post wrong. Have a great weekend.

[EthiopianFood]

I put the blame solidly on adoption agencies.

 

There are some children who just cannot be parented in families. I believe there are some who are better off in group care.

 

No, I don't think sending a child back on his own was the right way to go about it, but what if this woman knew no other way?

 

Frankly, I would like to see regulation that required agencies to educate parents thoroughly in RAD prior to adoption, to evaluate for RAD, and to have post-adoption support that included plans to prevent disruption but also to support it if it became clear that the child could not attach. A situation such as this mother faced with a constantly violent and dangerous child is untenable for most families to handle. (and you can read that they were naive and thought "love would be enough" and that they did not have good support services even the first year after adoption.)

 

Some people in this thread have made blanket statements about what kind of help is available; it varies by state, and sometimes by county. Some areas have no professionals at all trained in dealing with RAD and some kids with RAD just cannot be helped to the extent that it is safe for them to remain with families, no matter how much trained help is available.

 

Agencies don't know if a child has RAD. They have to rely on the orphanage workers to tell them about the child. These orphanages are often understaffed and overcrowded. The workers aren't trained to look for psychological issues, they are trained to make sure these kids get fed and don't kill each other. I can't imagine the cost of making sure the workers know what to look for. They can't even afford enough workers of any sort, never mind trained ones. Some orphanages don't even have enough FOOD.

 

I do agree that parents need better education about RAD, but I also think everyone assumes it won't happen to them. I wonder how many parents really pay attention to this stuff. It might be worthwhile for the agency to require the family to have a resource list in place before the child is placed, just in case. What does their insurance cover, and in what situations? Where are the providers located? What is the copay? Who at the agency should they call if they start seeing issues? I think these things would be beneficial, and shouldn't be unreasonable for the agency to require/provide.

[EthiopianFood]

I agree what she did was offensive. Her family was involved as well. They must have been terribly desperate to go to such measures.

 

I'm not arguing here. My previous response was focused more on addressing the fear and desperation this woman obviously faced, and issues RAD kids could have had to cause this desperation.

 

I think what I was trying to say was that I wasn't sure what was offending people beyond the method she chose, but I guess that is because I know about RAD, and I know better than to judge someone who disrupts. I forget that not everyone has researched this particular issue. None of that came across in my post though, obviously. :tongue_smilie: Just to play devil's advocate, we could also excuse people who beat their children, because they are that desperate and frustrated. There has to be a line somewhere. The feelings can be 100% valid, but you can't do whatever you want because of those feelings.

 

This is sort of off-topic, but I really would love to hear what you found worked for your dd. I have wanted to adopt for 8 years now, and my deepest fear is still that I will have a child with RAD. I literally don't think my family could survive it, but I also don't think it's right to not try everything possible to work it out. If you can't work it out, then so be it, but I would want to know I did everything I could. Would you mind pm'ing me?

[mirth]

I think people are arguing two different things. The only part that is offensive to me is how she chose to disrupt this adoption.

 

... Yeah that. Further offensive is how grandma continues to openly talk about this like it's a done deal, a completed transaction! Given that law enforcement and embassies are looking for any law that's been broken, I think she could keep quiet. Yes the airmail, return-to-sender manner of this woman or pair of women is the part that is undignified -- wholly undignified and contemptible in its pre-meditation and execution. I wonder how cousin Logan (his playmate) feels? Be good, or Aunt Torry may pack you off to Siberia. just . like . that.

 

She couldn't bring him to the agency? Did she try calling child protection? I guess we will just have to wait for more details.

 

How does anyone even know the mother is involved? Grandma seems to have a high stickiness factor throughout this affair. Grandma was there at the adoption in Russia. Grandma is the one who put this kid back on a plane. Could Grandma have also typed the letter and signed her daughter's name ("She'll thank me for this later!") ? Could Grandma have kidnapped this child and been the ultimate control freak? Notice that the actual adoptive parent has said zip and is unavailable for comment and has not been quoted anywhere.

 

I would like to examine the idea that it's all the agency's fault. If that were the case, then Torry Hansen (the adoptive mother) should be just as prime a candidate as anyone else for another adoption, and she should sue the agency for damages, fraud.

 

Ok, this is the big smelly part. From http://www.columbustelegram.com/news/national/article_46c1c75b-adac-5355-a442-44d10420f734.html: (all emphasis mine)

 

"Hansen said her daughter sought advice from psychologists but never had her adoptive son meet with one. They chose an English-language home study program, hoping to enroll him in traditional school in the fall. He would play with his cousin, Logan, at the family's property in Shelbyville, where there is a large backyard and a swingset."

 

Great. Like I said, Grandma needs to zip it.

Edited April 11, 2010 by mirth

[CalicoKat]

Rebecca, your post makes me so sad. I have so many times been judged by people who simply do NOT understand the serious adoption issues we faced with our daughter. She was the perfect little angel when around other people. ALL kids with attachment disorder or RAD are. They are wonderful, charming kids who behind closed doors try to kill animals, pee on the furniture ON PURPOSE, destroy the house, cause problems within relationships. You just have NO idea how difficult it is on the PARENTS, especially ME, to have people questioning why I do things the way I do. They don't understand why I guard my daughter so closely. They tell me ALL THE TIME what a great kid she is. They tell her ALL THE TIME what a good girl she is. They don't want to hear a single negative thing. They would be SHOCKED to see her true colors. You simply have NO idea what happened with that family.

 

I'm certain we've been judged and looked down on many times. Do you have any idea how hard that is? Do you know what it's like to have to keep your child attached to your hip for YEARS ON END because if you don't, an animal will get hurt (or worse), or the house will get destroyed? This is my life. This is my reality. Some adoptive mothers simply withdraw because they can't deal with the questions, judgments, treatment by others. Like dealing with these difficult kids isn't hard enough. I refuse to become a recluse because people who don't know any better say and do things to make me feel badly. It's just SO unfair. Unless you've adopted or fostered a child with serious issues and have researched their condition, you simply have NO CLUE as to what the parents are faced with.

 

That neighbor's son would NOT have been highly medicated without having serious issues. The treatment facilities that help these kids keep them long enough to see their issues. They know what they're doing. It does sound like he is a very sick child.

 

Now I have ignorant people telling me how I need to leave my daughter in our co=op classes, or let her play with the older kids. They just don't know how serious the repercussions of doing this would be. I tell my daughter all the time that I won't fail her. So I keep doing what's right FOR HER, and dealing with all the other adults and their constant questioning. It's just so tiring and draining sometimes.

:grouphug: I'm in a smiliar situation with one of my kiddos. No one knows her like dh and I. She's the perfect child out of the home. It's not as extreme as you're dealing with though.

[Kari C in SC]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I will post my probably against the grain opinion. My bil and sil adopted 3 kids from Guatemala 7 years ago. One of the kids - a boy murdered my sil. He brought her his math book that had a knife under it and he stabbed her to death. He then brought her biological 4 year old dd in to watch her die. So... I do believe that this woman could have feared for her life and just didn't know what else to do. If you do a search on RADD for adopted kids - you will find lots of stories of violence and death related to these type of adoptions.

 

Having said that - my bil and sil were trying to help the children they adopted through keeping them at home. Neither one of them had any idea the boy they adopted was capable of murder. When he was asked why he killed her - he said it was because she took the video games away from him. He as also planning on killing a neighbor woman. You really just never know what somebody is walking through unless you are them.

[msjones]

I've read most of the replies here, and want to share our experience. We were foster parents for a very short time (just 2 days). Short because the very first child in our home had to be 'sent back.' It still breaks my heart to think of it, although I now think we did the right thing.

 

We had been told that this baby (a newborn) was healthy, fine, doing great, etc. etc. He had "no special needs" other than some cream for his diaper rash. All lies.

 

It turned out this tiny little baby was addicted to methadone and going through withdrawal. There was no possible way I could provide for his many needs while also caring for my 3 and 4 year old boys.

 

I am certain we were lied to just so we would take him home. Thankfully, after I called the case workers (on day 2) with my many concerns, they found a place for him in a baby detox facility. This was after one case worker bawled me out for 'returning' a baby. My heart still aches just thinking of it.

 

We never fostered another child, and probably never will. We absolutely do not trust DSHS. So, although this family certainly should not have sent this boy off alone on a plane to Russia, I do wonder just how many lies they were told.

[LibraryLover]

I feel for this child, for the fear he must have felt being put on a plane alone etc, so understand that I am not justifying anything. Yet I am stuck on the Russian gov telling the world he didn't attend school etc. As hsers, we can see it made sense to help him learn English and try to bond at home before sending him off to school. The rest of the world, esp where hsing is not allowed, must seen red. 'She didn't even bother to send him to school!"

 

But how anyone could just put a child on a plane alone and walk away...I am not saying "Hey, awesome idea!"

 

i wish we could fast-forward a year or two when they all decide to tell their story to Oprah. I hope it has a happy ending for the little guy, although I doubt it.

[Joanne]

Such bad logic and thinking in the article below.

 

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/starkly-different-portraits-of-adopted-russian-artyom-justin-savelyev-emerge/19434913?icid=main|hp-laptop|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fnation%2Farticle%2Fstarkly-different-portraits-of-adopted-russian-artyom-justin-savelyev-emerge%2F19434913

 

As if you can evaluate the adoptive mom's claims in hours, a plane ride, or in the absence of daily life in a new home with siblings.

 

I agree with the above posters who think g'ma ought to shut up. She doesn't represent their perspective well.

[TracyR]

Tracy, none of us know what this woman went through. Poor judgment is obvious, but maybe it was out of fear. Maybe she awoke to her son standing over her with a knife. Maybe he killed an animal, or many animals. Maybe he was so out of control that she feared for HIS life, fearing she couldn't keep him from doing serious personal harm, or maybe she feared for HER life. I believe the news article said she needed to do this for her family and friends. SOMETHING must have happened for her to say this. Now it COULD be that she was just stupid. But people don't endure the long, painful wait, spend huge amounts of money, and travel to a country TWICE and then just decide that it all was a mistake. Maybe he actually tried to kill someone. I've read SO MANY books out there and even at age 7, it's a real reality.

 

 

That maybe so. But from reports now they are saying that the neigbors rarely saw this boy. As if she hid them. That there was some very suspicious activity coming from this family. I don't see anything saying she gave it her all.. ex : therapy, group home, medication.. etc.

Having done that would of been giving it her all. Not keeping him couped up at home and not getting him the help he obviously needed. Here he is in a new country, I'm sure his English was extremely limited. How do we not know that his behavior wasn't out of pure fear and frustration because of his lack of English? How would you feel if you were stuck in a country with strangers and didn't know the language?

 

Had this woman said " I did try my all, I tried therapy with this child, I tried putting him on medication to see if it would help, I tried putting him in a group home of some sorts to see if he would do better there. Then I would say that she tried and even give some sympathy. But I can't because she didn't try. Now she's in hiding and its because she knew what she did was wrong.

And if it was lack of knowledge or her so called lack of help then she should of never of been able to adopt at all without even having basic knowledge of mental health services available in this country. I'm not doubting this little boy had some issues. Most likely because it looks to me he has FAS, as I'm sure other mental health issues. But I've seen it so many times where people just don't want to deal with what they have so they think they can give it back.

If this was her biological child she would be forced to get him the help he needs or give him up the state. If he was that bad then she should of given up her parental rights to him and put him in foster care. He's not a car, you can't just give him back.

 

I feel bad for the little boy. Not this woman.

[unsinkable]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I will post my probably against the grain opinion. My bil and sil adopted 3 kids from Guatemala 7 years ago. One of the kids - a boy murdered my sil. He brought her his math book that had a knife under it and he stabbed her to death. He then brought her biological 4 year old dd in to watch her die. So... I do believe that this woman could have feared for her life and just didn't know what else to do. If you do a search on RADD for adopted kids - you will find lots of stories of violence and death related to these type of adoptions.

 

Having said that - my bil and sil were trying to help the children they adopted through keeping them at home. Neither one of them had any idea the boy they adopted was capable of murder. When he was asked why he killed her - he said it was because she took the video games away from him. He as also planning on killing a neighbor woman. You really just never know what somebody is walking through unless you are them.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I am so sorry about the murder of your SIL. Words are so inadequate but please know I mean this sincerely.

[Denisemomof4]

If this was her biological child she would be forced to get him the help he needs or give him up the state. If he was that bad then she should of given up her parental rights to him and put him in foster care. He's not a car, you can't just give him back.

 

I feel bad for the little boy. Not this woman.

 

It doesn't matter whether it's your bio or adopted kid. BOTH are YOUR LEGAL kids. One isn't more your kid than the other. And like I said in an earlier post, to give up your parental rights and put into foster care, you're financially responsible for the kid until they're 18.

 

I feel bad for both the mother and the kid. We still don't know what happened to make her so desperate.

[Hunter's Moon]

I am not saying that what this woman did was right but from new reports, they are now saying the adoption agency they went through never informed this woman of the mental issues this child had.

 

The child told the adopted mother he burnt down a building near the adoption agency he was in, he became violent when she wouldn't let him play video games, and he tried starting a fire in his room.

 

I don't understand why the adoption agency didn't help or why the family went about it the way they did but I believe the adoption agency is at fault too. Obviously this woman would not have adopted this child had she known the issues he had.

 

It is a sad story, I feel for the child, but I can also see the adopted mothers point of view. I'm not saying I would have gone about it that way but something would have had to been done.

[Wendi]

I am not saying that what this woman did was right but from new reports, they are now saying the adoption agency they went through never informed this woman of the mental issues this child had.

 

The child told the adopted mother he burnt down a building near the adoption agency he was in, he became violent when she wouldn't let him play video games, and he tried starting a fire in his room.

 

I don't understand why the adoption agency didn't help or why the family went about it the way they did but I believe the adoption agency is at fault too. Obviously this woman would not have adopted this child had she known the issues he had.

 

It is a sad story, I feel for the child, but I can also see the adopted mothers point of view. I'm not saying I would have gone about it that way but something would have had to been done.

 

The problem with RAD is (and I'm no expert) that it's entirely possible there were no major behavior problems when he was in the orphanage. RAD kids can be fine around other people; it's only when you are trying to bond with them, to be their parent, that they show these extreme behaviors to keep you away.

 

The thing that seems unbelievable to me is that the mother never had the child in any sort of treatment. According to the article I read, she talked to a psychologist herself, but the boy was never evaluated by a psychiatrist, nor was he treated. I wonder why. Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for this lady, but I don't understand taking such a drastic step without seeking treatment.

 

Wendi

 

Wendi

[Melinda in VT]

The problem with RAD is (and I'm no expert) that it's entirely possible there were no major behavior problems when he was in the orphanage. RAD kids can be fine around other people; it's only when you are trying to bond with them, to be their parent, that they show these extreme behaviors to keep you away.

 

The thing that seems unbelievable to me is that the mother never had the child in any sort of treatment. According to the article I read, she talked to a psychologist herself, but the boy was never evaluated by a psychiatrist, nor was he treated. I wonder why. Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for this lady, but I don't understand taking such a drastic step without seeking treatment.

 

Wendi

 

Wendi

 

Maybe language was an issue with getting treatment for him?

 

I haven't followed the story closely, but I wonder if sending him back to Russia (although I'm not crazy about the unaccompanied part) wouldn't make more sense than turning him over to DCF here. It sounds like he wasn't here long enough to really adjust to the culture. At least in Russia things would feel familiar and he could communicate.

 

Just a thought. I think it's a sad situation and I feel for all involved.

[Mejane]

I think some people are so desperate for a child, they ignore potential problems. This woman is a nurse. She is not medically ignorant. The adoption agency may have downplayed the boy's behavioral issues to expedite adoption (I believe it is done too often), but many of these problems are in the mainstream now. Do prospective adoptive parents really not know about RAD and other issues with which these children present? Do they not research? Or, in their desperation to adopt, do they choose to overlook the risks and simply hope for the best? It's a terrible analogy, but I can't help think of caveat emptor. Let the 'adoptive parent' beware.

[Wendi]

But why is it so hard to get help for these kids? I'm sad and frustrated for the family. I don't think sending him back was right, but it seems that it's too hard and expensive to get help. Sadly, I think many families spend all their money (and/or go into debt) for the international adoption; they can't really afford expensive treatments. RAD specialists are probably hard to find. I assumed, though, that if a child is that violent and unstable, that there is some kind of community mental health program that would offer services. Am I wrong? Is an adopted child really not eligible?

 

Wow.

 

Wendi