What sort of things would we want to spend 10,000 hours on?

[Rosie_0801]

As you've probably guessed, I've just finished reading Outliers :)

 

It made me consider my own childhood and ponder what my parents could have done to make the most of what I was, but I could only think of two things! Then, naturally, thoughts turn to my own kids. I wonder what sorts of things I would want to encourage them to spend that much time on.

 

(I did a search on this book on here, but didn't see this particular conversation, so if it did happen, please link it so I can go read!)

 

Rosie- hoping someone around here feels like conversation because hubby doesn't ;)

[elegantlion]

I finished Outliers a few months ago. I spent a few days pondering my childhood, then I had to stop because it was kind of depressing. My parents never seemed to think of the activities of my child/teen years as foundational to building something long term, they were just the teen years. So after giving up some of those activities to be "adult" I realized I still want to do them, and there are grownups that actually do these things for a living. So a few years ago I started writing again, restarting my 10k hours. (of course I should be an internet expert by now. I'm sure I've exceeded my 10k hours :lol::lol:)

 

When the pity party was over I thought about my son. He's 12 and still defining his true passions. Right now he's into a few things and what I love about homeschooling is that he has time to pursue them. I also read the passage about the 10k hours to him. I wanted him to understand that what he does put his time into now does matter.

[Amber in AUS]

Outliers by whom? Sounds like one i need to find at the library when we move :)

[Rosie_0801]

Lol, it is a bit depressing, isn't it? I've managed to conclude that hubby would be doing a heck of a lot better in life if his parents had encouraged his (what ought to have been) pretty obvious vocation. I've also managed to conclude that my only vocation is being a homeschooling mamma. Obviously it's a good thing that that's what I'm doing, but I still feel like a bit of a useless bum for not having a "real" vocation that translates to the world of making a living.

 

I guess it seems more than the usual amount of important that my kids have some kind of vocation that we are willing and able to support because they are part of a baby boom so have so many people to compete against! I'm hoping they have a vocation for languages and science. I'm really hoping they don't go for humanities; there doesn't seem to be many places to go with them.

 

Rosie (a humanities girl)

 

P.S Here's a link, Amber: http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017922

Edited April 3, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Amber in AUS]

Thanks Rosie ;)

[Rebecca VA]

When I read the book, I never once thought of what my parents could or couldn't have done for me. In fact, I felt that the message of the book was self-education, or pursuing one's own passion to the point of expertise. Parents can provide time and resources, but the fire has to come from within.

 

Each of my children has a passion: The older one is very much into computers, and the younger one is into ballet. I see a little bit of my husband's and my roles in those. My husband was into Apple computers from teenhood. In fact, we lived in California when I was pregnant, and my husband had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to tour the Apple headquarters -- maybe that affected our child in utero? (This is the same child who is shaking with excitement at this very moment waiting for the UPS truck to bring his iPad to him.) Our daughter inherited a perfect ballet body with long limbs, high arches, etc. But both of them have had to work endless hours to gain what expertise they have in these areas, and there will be much more work throughout the coming years. My husband and I can't make them put in their 10,000 hours. And, at least in our daughter's case, her obsession could die out and be replaced by something new. I keep encouraging her to keep her options open.

 

All this rambling to say that I think that if a person has a passion, he or she will find a way to develop it. The passion takes on a life of its own, and it pushes the parents aside as it grows.

[MSNative]

Never read Outliers, but am adding it to my list.

 

As far as what to encourage my kids to do - lifelong sports and love of learning and reading. As soon as they were old enough for lessons, I've had my kids in tennis lessons. (Not pushing them to be superstars. Don't think they will be. We also take many breaks from it when other sports or activities get in the way.) My family always played tennis together and it's a fun, cheap way to spend time and meet other people. Same thing with jogging. My older boys are just getting into running with me. Love it as a way to spend time with them.

 

Love of learning and reading - we have monthly book dates, read classics aloud every week, discuss books we're reading, etc. We also share what discoveries we've made, what we're pondering, etc. FLL (robotics) is actually fantastic for this. The kids research new topics, think creatively, problem solve, etc. They love it.

 

Hope that made some sense. There's a water main break, so we have no water= no coffee. :(

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I've not read the book, but I wish my parents had encouraged my desire to spend time in art and music. They were not interested in those things and did not think them necessary for adults. I enjoyed the little experience I got and always longed for more. But my mom was always thinking about the bottom line: is it worth it to pay for lessons that may not go anywhere or materials that may not be used. My dad might have gone to bat for me, if he even realized I had the desire, but he was the absent minded professor type and deferred to my mom in all questions of our upbringing.

 

I am so glad that one of my sons pursued a mastery of the piano, it is such a joy for me to hear him play. My daughter was given every opportunity to use her artistic talents, they also bring me pleasure. So I live vicariously.

 

I guess you would call those things an avocation, I feel my true vocation was to be a teacher and a mom. :-) They are the only things I have felt driven to pursue as an adult.

 

My son in college tells me he was born to be an accountant. I believe him. He was lining things up in rows from toddlerhood. :-) When we were homeschooling him, I gave him extra courses in economics and accounting. He used to have the national debt clock bookmarked. My daughters vocation is definitely art.

 

I have no idea what to do with my son whose vocation seems to be packrat and tinkerer.

 

ETA: After seeing some of the other posts I realized that I too spent my 10,000 hours reading. I read every chance I got. I read all summer up in the tree house. I read off a list of classics one of my teachers gave me. I read at lunch instead of eating. I read my textbooks when I didn't have anything else.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Virginia Dawn

[patchfire]

I still feel like a bit of a useless bum for not having a "real" vocation that translates to the world of making a living.

 

Ha, I often feel this way. I like to think it's the result of being enough of a generalist that I was never totally comfortable giving up other interests to focus on just one. ;)

 

That said, it is a big hope of mine that each of my kids finds THE thing, or barring that, two things (one vocation, one hobby). Guiding them to that one thing seems like a big challenge, sometimes.

 

About the only thing I would have spent more time on as a teenager, money permitting, was horseback riding. I still would like to spend time on it, but since I can't afford my own horse, it's not getting any more realistic. :P

[lisamarie]

The only thing I spent more than 10K hours on growing up was reading. I grew up across the street from a library and I was over there nearly every day. It was my second home. I still read a ton and make weekly library runs and I can already see that this is rubbing off on my kids which is great.

 

I tried lots of things as a kid. I took a couple years of dance, gymnastics, piano lessons, 2 years of oboe in school, art classes, guitar lessons, violin lessons. But none of these lasted more than 2 years and I never liked to practice.

 

So for me, I think the thing that would have helped the most would have been for my parents to instill in me a mindset of not quitting things. Of picking 1 thing and sticking with it rather than doing a buffet of things. Though I am glad that I got to try things according to my interests at the time, I don't really have a passion for any one thing.

[gingersmom]

Its funny you should bring this subject up. Its one I have discussed with my daughter many times. My parents would never have put aside their own interests long enough for any of the children to pursue something with vigor (long term).

 

I was an avid reader and so was my father so 2-3 times/week we visited the library.

 

I was never encouraged to pursue a sport or music, etc.

 

My daughter is an ice skater and I devote 1000% of my time/energy to making time/money so she can pursue ice skating. We are at the rink 6 days/week (sometimes before the sun rises and are there late at night 2 days/week).

 

Her middle years (she is 13) are so different than mine. She is focused, happy, energetic and looks forward to everyday with excitement.

[Peela]

I learned piano- glad I did. Even a bit of guitar and clarinet. I sang in choirs for years through my childhood- really good ones- that has definitely had a lasting impact. We spent a lot of time camping and in nature as a family before my parents separated- it had a big impact on me. I was also a big reader, and my father used to feed me sc fi and fantasy novels (I still love sci fi on TV, and good fantasy, although now I read more non fiction).

 

My dd15 is a fine artist. She has been drawing and paintng all her life, pretty much every day. I guess that might add up to 10K hours. I wouldnt be surprised. She also plays piano. She loves photography- her dad bought her an expensive camera to pursue her hobbie. Now she wants to go into journalism.

 

Ds14 is a charming master manipulator of all children younger than him as well as less "dominating " personalities the same age or older. He can pretty much get them to follow him to the moon. I am sure the thousands of hours he has spent honing his people skills will come in handy in his adult life - in fact, he reckons he would be a good salesman and I think he is right. :) Not saying it's all a good thing, but it seems to be his thing.

Other than that...he played classical recorder for 5 years, and piano for 1. It was important to me that my kids had a solid musical foundation.

 

Both kids love gymnastics. I am not sure if it will go anywhere, but its been a great thing. But...team sport hasnt been important to us as a family. Its not something we have greatly encouraged in the kids- possibly selfishly, but there is only so much time in the week.

 

As homeschoolers we have been blessed with time and finances to pursue lots of interests. But my parents werent too bad either.

[elegantlion]

I've not read the book, but I wish my parents had encouraged my desire to spend time in art and music. They were not interested in those things and did not think them necessary for adults. I enjoyed the little experience I got and always longed for more. But my mom was always thinking about the bottom line: is it worth it to pay for lessons that may not go anywhere or materials that may not be used. My dad might have gone to bat for me, if he even realized I had the desire, but he was the absent minded professor type and deferred to my mom in all questions of our upbringing.

 

 

We didn't have money for lessons of any kind so they weren't an option. I don't remember my parents ever discussing career with me, but they never assumed I'd be a SAHM mother either. Next deep topic for conversing with my mother. :lol: We had a great relationship so I bring up those "what were you thinking..." topics once in a while.

 

I loved art, writing, travel, and I wanted to be archaeologist. Those things were so out of the realm of normal in our circle that no one cultivated those passions and I quit out of frustration. How I wish the internet had been around when I was a child.

 

I do think it's easier today for a child to pursue some passions, especially ones that are not sport or lesson oriented. The internet has such vast resources. I mean I have insomnia and got online at some early hour and responded a question from someone halfway around the world. I'm 42 and think that's pretty cool.

 

I wonder if the generation of children brought up using the internet (or at least access to it) will feel more settled in their career choice? Will they be more able and willing to pursue their passions? How easily can you take a child's passion and look up someone online who is doing that very thing for a living? I periodically ask my son what he wants to be when grows up. It changes. The other day he stated he would like to be a Lego Certified Professional . I had never heard of that, he found out about it online.

[Sahamamama]

Homeschooling! :D

 

Seriously, I feel that self-education and seeking to become a master teacher are my heartfelt passions. No matter how many twists and turns life takes, I always come back to learning. There is so much to explore and think about, but for a teacher of young children -- especially a home educator -- it is probably good to be a passionate generalist.

 

Math, Latin, music, grammar, geography, history, science, literature, Bible, and theology -- all these content areas interest me and repeatedly pull me into their depths. I do feel as though I am continually learning.

 

A few years ago, I was bemoaning to my poor husband that I had no focus, no specific area of passion.

 

"What?" he replied, astonished. "I don't know anyone more passionate than you are!"

 

"Passionate about what?" I asked.

 

"You are passionate about learning and teaching. And that is worth something. At least, to our family it is priceless."

 

That little conversation changed my perspective, because it helped me to look back over the years and realize that I've always been wired this way. Even though the modern, global culture values the specialist, there is a place (maybe not a paycheck) for a passionate, ever-learning generalist. I'm glad I've finally come to that place. ;)

[JennW in SoCal]

My dh is an example of someone who had a passion and put in those 10,000 hours on his own accord. I've known him long enough that I figure it is more like 1,000,000 or more at this point! When people ask him how to become an artist, he tells them that the real secret is that you have to want to study art, sketch and draw ALL THE TIME. No parent can make that happen -- it has to be an inner drive.

 

A professional drummer I know has said the same thing when talking about his own kids or students who have these big dreams of music stardom, but they don't live and breathe music. They aren't single minded enough to make those dreams reality.

 

I, on the other had, came from a musical family, was surrounded by musicians and music, had lessons all the way through college. And I didn't practice -- it wasn't my parent's fault, it was my own. I still love playing, and practice more these days, but I realize that I still don't have that drive to practice enough to live up to my potential.

 

The world still needs generalists -- we can't all be experts. Instead of being an expert I'm very adaptable and have had all kinds of different jobs. I haven't read Outliers, but, after hearing about it for a couple of years now, I think the message is that it takes self-discipline and motivation to put in those 10,000 hours -- that we can't blame parents or lack of innate talent.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Great question, Rosie!

 

When I read Outliers, I applied it to my writing. Growing up, my mom had me try EVERYTHING--ballet, 4-H, swimming, tap, diving lessons, and piano. When I got old enough, I started clarinet and that carried me through high school and part of college with scholarship.

 

But what I WISH I would have spent more time on is writing. It was always a passion, and was somewhat encouraged, but never really developed. I'm rectifying that now :D

 

As for my kids--the oldest has an amazing voice, and that's where her lessons and free time are spent. The middle is a gymnastics whiz and just made team for June. Don't know how far that'll take her (as one of the pp's mentioned). The youngest is also in gymnastics but is starting to develop other interests. The great thing with gymnastics, even if they don't stick with it forever (how could they?) is it teaches them to work diligently toward goals. I fully expect they will broaden--then narrow--their interests as they get older.

[TravelingChris]

My family is quite happy not being too specialized. None of us have such narrow interests that we will become outliers and that is really okay because we will all probably be very successful, yet not outstandingly so.

 

My dh was only mildly encourage in his love of science and both economics and other competing interests mean that he isn't at the top of his field. Yet he doesn't think he had the personality to do something like become a Nobel laureate. He likes his family, his hobbies, and generally his leisure. Yes, he works more that 40 hours a week but more like 60, not the 80 or more for the top scientists.

 

Myself, I am even more of a generalist than my husband and I like it like that.

 

My children are all like us. Yes, they have their passions and they work hard on their pursuits but the pursuits change over time and the amount of work they do on a specific passion is not the level that the best pursue. THey have our personalities and similar interests to ours and can't see forgoing so many pleasurable activities for pursuing only one thing.

[Kirch]

When I read the book, I never once thought of what my parents could or couldn't have done for me. In fact, I felt that the message of the book was self-education, or pursuing one's own passion to the point of expertise. Parents can provide time and resources, but the fire has to come from within.

 

 

 

:iagree: That's what I thought too. If I remember correctly, in the examples in the book, most of the parents just kind of stayed out of the way rather than taking an active role in encouraging/pushing their children to reach their potential. For most of them it seemed that the settings that allowed them to gain 10,000 hours was more of a set of fortuitous coincidences than anything engineered or even encouraged by parents.

[AngieW in Texas]

I just finished that book recently myself. There were a lot of people on the hold list in front of me.

 

The only thing I spent 10,000 hours on was reading.

 

My oldest used to spend at least 1,000 hours/year on drawing, but she hasn't been drawing as much the past year. She chose to take drawing at the cc and hasn't been doing any drawing outside of classtime since she started. She loves the classes, but I think that seeing that there was a lot more to art than just manga took something out of her.

 

My middle loves science. Her focus lately has been philosophy of mind. She spends a lot of her time reading. She has just gotten started with python programming and I think that could become a new passion.

 

My youngest became passionate about writing when we got a netbook at Christmas. She now spends about 3 hours/day writing (that adds up to about 1000 hours/year). At the end of 4th grade she still tested as LD in written expression. I know that wouldn't be the case today. Her spelling has improved tremendously as a result of doing all her typing in a word processing program with spellcheck. Even when spellcheck doesn't give her the right word, it at least lets her know that what she has is wrong. She's also been spending about 1 hour/day practicing on her guitar. She just started guitar two months ago. She bought herself the guitar, so I got her the lessons.

Edited April 3, 2010 by AngieW in Texas

[justamouse]

Rosie I thought about it just like you. Where could I be now if I was allowed to pursue.... (the parent's stepping back is an action itself, allowing you to self teach)

 

Anyway, I write, which I love, and when I'm not writing I'm painting and making mixed media collages. And while I'm plotting, I crochet.

 

That book is one that started to point me toward unschooling. I want my kids to follow their passions and so far it's been pretty amazing. Dd is making these gorgeous paintings, getting nominated for teen arts (and her project was picked for the gallery) and she's going to be the art teacher's assistant. She's blending the art with cosmo and I can totally see her styling at theaters and galleries. Total Tim Burton stuff.

 

In a way I feel bad for my Mom, she wanted to be a Marine Biologist and she would have made a killer one. Instead she was pushed into Nursing. She' was an excellent nurse, but biology was her forte.

 

Anywho, that was a great book. All Gladwell's books are.

Edited April 3, 2010 by justamouse

[joannqn]

For my childhood, it would have been art. I was good at drawing but my dad used to belittle my work so much that I finally just gave up as a young adult. I could still hear his voice in my head. I'm just starting to get started again with teaching my kids to draw, but it is a very small part of our schooling so I'm not doing much of it.

 

My 8 year old son already has about 1,000 hours into taekwondo. We are very unhappy that his school has changed their class schedule in such a way as to force him into fewer hours a week. He wants to obtain his black belt (he's two belt tests away...or about 9-12 months) and instruct.

 

My daughter spends a lot of time writing.

[KristenS]

I spent my ten thousand hours on reading. I am very very good at it. :D

 

Seriously, I did. My mom did her best to provide us with a taste of all sorts of activities ... which was good, because all those random hours did add up to an appreciation of the various arts, and that's valuable, and it added to my world experience, which enhances my reading! :) And the dabbling led my sister to her years of dance lessons ... she did quit later in high school, but I know she wouldn't change those years anyway. It's given her grace and poise, and helped make her the mom she is today. (She's actually, on the side, a fantastic seamstress, can do anything from everyday to costumes to ball and wedding gowns.)

 

My mom took my interests, made a random phone call, and got me a summer volunteer job at a local library when I was 13 (which was technically too young but they were desperate for help). Because books were my passion and I was too shy to call, she did this. And it led to many summers of volunteering (and her driving, bless her heart), and then a part-time job to support me through high school and college, and a full-time job after, till motherhood hit. (And I rotated around, got experience at several branches and in several departments ... way fun!) Now all that knowledge and experience, along with some of my college (teaching degree), goes towards the raising and educating of my own kids ... another ten thousand hours, and then some, I suppose, which will prepare me to be a cool grandma! LOL.

 

My dh spent his ten thousand hours programming and tinkering when he grew up, and now he's a software engineer, working on embedded systems (such as weather radio programming, cell phone programming, stadium lights, and all sorts of odd things). His work environment occasionally drives him nuts, but he loves the actual work he does.

 

I totally support dabbling around to find new hobbies and interests, and I am so glad my mom did the things she did (working around the PS schedule, too! ... she even drove me from the middle school to the high school to take Algebra early, when it wasn't routinely offered back then). I want to do this for my kids. But I also appreciate, and hope to also duplicate, the free time she allowed us to just pursue our passions, whatever they happened to be.

 

(My dad was equally supportive, but worked much overtime, so most of this burden fell on mom. Just want to give him a little credit too though! And mom did a lot of hunting to find inexpensive ways to manage these possibilities for us on a tight budget.)

[nevergiveup]

I have not read the book, but 10,000 hours means doing something for 4 hours per day, 365 days per year for almost 6.9 years. No breaks. Every day. I don't think many kids have the passion at that stage of their lives to do one activity exclusively for almost 7 years at that intensity.

 

I think my job as a parent is to expose my kids to different activities and ideas so that they might be able to find a career or hobby that would inspire such a passion, not pigeon-hole them into something exclusively at such an early age.

[KristenS]

I love that breakdown of the math ... but my mom would probably tell you it was a struggle to pull me out of my books, and I at least got a couple hours of reading in every day. And I haven't stopped yet (though the time eludes me these days!).

 

I still did outside stuff, and played in the neighborhood and all ... I think you can be passionate as well as well-rounded, but it does take some juggling. I think homeschooling schedules certainly help in that regard.

[Corraleno]

It made me consider my own childhood and ponder what my parents could have done to make the most of what I was, but I could only think of two things! Then, naturally, thoughts turn to my own kids. I wonder what sorts of things I would want to encourage them to spend that much time on.

 

Well, the only one of my "passions" my parents ever encouraged was my desire to leave home the day I turned 18. :rolleyes:

 

Not surprisingly, encouraging my children's passions is a big priority for me. DS12 has wanted to be a biologist or paleontologist since he was a toddler ~ his "comfort object" as a baby was an adult-level book about fish, LOL. He's always had a huge library of science and nature books and documentaries, and we've made nature walks and science field trips part of our lives since he was very young. I've added to his fossil collection every birthday and Christmas since he was 6. He goes on a week-long paleontology dig every Fall & Spring with DH, and we signed up as a family to volunteer at the Museum of Natural History, since they don't allow children under 18 to work alone. Family vacations always include a stop at a science museum or a fossil-hunting trip.

 

DD7's passion is music; she takes Suzuki violin lessons twice/week and she has an electric keyboard in her room that she "composes" music on. We also go to concerts, play classical music all the time at home & in the car, and DH (who is also a musician) started taking cello lessons to accompany her. I don't think she'll end up making a living as a musician, but I suspect it will be a life-long passion for her. Believe it or not, she's also obsessed with business and finance ~ since she was a toddler, she would ask where stores get their products from, how do they pay for them, where does the money go after the cashier gets it, how do banks store the money and send it to other banks, etc. Since neither DH nor I have any interest in (or aptitude for) business, if this is a direction she really wants to pursue, we will need to hook her up with other people who can mentor her. DH says she will be running his software company by the time she's 14, LOL.

 

Jackie

[cathmom]

I have not read the book, but 10,000 hours means doing something for 4 hours per day, 365 days per year for almost 6.9 years. No breaks. Every day. I don't think many kids have the passion at that stage of their lives to do one activity exclusively for almost 7 years at that intensity.

 

I think my job as a parent is to expose my kids to different activities and ideas so that they might be able to find a career or hobby that would inspire such a passion, not pigeon-hole them into something exclusively at such an early age.

 

Gladwell breaks it down as being 20 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, for 10 years. That is the level to get to be a world-class expert in whatever you are doing.

[Rosie_0801]

Good morning Everyone!

 

It's been interesting reading, particularly the anecdotes of passions that will grow into a "proper" job. My 10,000 hours went into reading too and I think that qualifies me very well to be a homeschooling mum, but not much else. Still, I'm booked up to do that for the next 20,000 hours so who knows who I will be at the end of that :) I'm all for kids having hobbies but they still need to enjoy something that pays a living wage enough to make that living! It's quite plausible that they will not, but I really hope they are showing signs of specializing in something that will move into a career by the time they get to high school age. Someone who is half way to their 10,000 hours before they start uni/a traineeship or whatever is going to be at a great advantage compared to someone who doesn't really start until they have graduated high school. Parents do matter. For those who have read the book, look at that chap, Chris Langan. Where would Bill Gates have been if his parents hadn't sent him to a particular school, or if they had put bars on his bedroom window so he couldn't sneak out? :lol:

 

Rosie

[Mejane]

I can't think of anything I'd want to do for that amount of time, but my daughter has danced approximately that many hours in her fourteen years of ballet training.

 

I do think you have to have some talent or aptitude for the thing you choose as well, and Gladwell may have said that. I can't remember as it's been awhile since I read the book. Thought it was very interesting, though.

[Ibbygirl]

I've also managed to conclude that my only vocation is being a homeschooling mamma. Obviously it's a good thing that that's what I'm doing, but I still feel like a bit of a useless bum for not having a "real" vocation that translates to the world of making a living.

 

LOL Well it doesn't at this time. You never know what the future will bring. I know a lady who pays other homeschoolers to teach her dd the subjects that she is weak in so never say never Ms. Rosie. ;) :) Who knows, you might even develop a sudden love of cars and start a side detailing business. ;) hehe :D

 

For me, my passion when I was a child was always music. It still is. I could definitely spend 10,000 hours on music and more. :)

[Wheres Toto]

I've definitely spent my 10,000 hours reading. We didn't have a television until I was in my late teens (and I grew up in the 80's) so I spent a lot of time reading. Our local librarians knew my brother and I by name. It's still what I do...constantly. Before getting remarried, having more kids and becoming a homeschooling SAHM I was pursuing a teaching credential. I don't know if public school teaching would have satisfied my needs but homeschooling definitely is even as young as my kids are. I love researching, compiling lessons, reading aloud. I was a docent at a local zoo for 10 years, including teaching classes to new docents and I greatly enjoyed that.

 

My younger kids are pretty young to have any passion but my oldest has been a competitive dancer since she was 4. When she first started it was just a cute, fun thing for a little girl to do. I never thought it would still be her passion 12 years later. She has averaged 15 hours a week for 12 years and has no desire to quit or slow down. (wow, I just calculated that out and it still hasn't hit 10,000 hours). She's planning to minor in dance with a major in either fashion design or forensics. She realizes how hard it is to make it as a dancer so wants to teach dance to kids while working in another field. Of course, she's still young (almost 16) and things may change.

[cathmom]

). She's planning to minor in dance with a major in either fashion design or forensics. She realizes how hard it is to make it as a dancer so wants to teach dance to kids while working in another field. Of course, she's still young (almost 16) and things may change.

 

sounds like your dd and my dd would get along quite well! ballet and forensics, an interesting combination!

[OrganicAnn]

My DD is probably too young to have a passion that is lasting (being 6). But I was talking to my DH about what would be worthwhile to anyone. We both agreed that writing well would help most people no matter what their career turns out to be. I don't count reading because the point of outliers is that you have to do 10000 hours to get really good at the skill and to me reading just doesn't quite fit. Yes I expect that my DD will read 10000 but it will not be for the purpose to improve her reading skills.

[laughing lioness]

I finished this today:001_smile:. I thought it was a great read and will be inter-libarary loaning his other 2 books. I'm sure I've spent 10,000 hours on child rearing/mentoring/teaching, cooking & homemaking skills and reading- heavily in the areas of Human development and Marriage and Family Therapy, history, Bible and gardening. My dh has definititly spent that much time in the areas of theology and psych.

In high school I spent tons of hours in the pottery studio, taking photographs, drawing, and reading/ looking etc at art work. I also spent tons of time in bands and choirs. I regret not sticking more closely with the art. It was always a dream of mine to become a professional artist.

Our kids have spent lots of hours reading history, writing, and playing with legos, playmobile, clay, etc.- in other words, open ended play. I wonder what that will translate into? My parents were a psychologist and a therapist, as are my dh and I and my kids "get" concepts and make connections readily, in ways that others just go "Wow. Your parents are shrinks, right?" And both of our families are full up of teachers, pastors and psychologists, along with authors. All of our kids are "natural" storytellers, so I see already how their play time and history are aligning.

I loved the discussion about cultural legacies as well as considering how being homeschoolers makes us, by definition, outliers and what that means down the road from a cultural standpoint for this group of kids as adults... the idea that we are all standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before intrigues me often.

[cathmom]

I think that maybe what some are missing is that not everyone chooses something and spends 10,000 hours on it. Otherwise we would all be world-class experts in something and we're not. The book does not take into account that some are satisfied with less than that. For example, he tells about a study of musicians. 10,000 hours was required to be a world class soloist. The "good" group of musicians had only studied 8000 hours and were good enough to be in the symphony or whatever. The lowest group had studied 4000 hours and would probably become music teachers. So, what if you have two passions and spend 5000 hours on each? You'll be really, really good at two things! Good for you!

 

Not everyone has the temperament or desire to be a world class soloist. And Gladwell clearly makes the point that your parents have to be supportive, and your family cannot be poor (because if you're spending that 20 hours a week working a PT job to help your family, you don't have enough time).

 

This is where I think homeschooled children have an advantage, and it's why minors who have careers in acting or athletics or whatever have tutors. School takes a huge chunk of that time away. Homeschooled children also usually have supportive parents who try to help their children fulfill their dreams.

[Rosie_0801]

I think that maybe what some are missing is that not everyone chooses something and spends 10,000 hours on it.

I think we are all well aware of that, since many of us have related exactly that experience in our own lives and are hoping our kids don't turn out the same. 4000 hours to be a music teacher would be just fine, but a lot of us don't feel strongly enough about anything to want to spend that 4000 hours. Presumably that's because we have lots of interests, not because we are all very dull and don't like anything :lol:

 

The book does not take into account that some are satisfied with less than that.

That's because the book is about the pinnacle of success, not about the average.

 

Rosie

[cathmom]

I think we are all well aware of that, since many of us have related exactly that experience in our own lives and are hoping our kids don't turn out the same. 4000 hours to be a music teacher would be just fine, but a lot of us don't feel strongly enough about anything to want to spend that 4000 hours. Presumably that's because we have lots of interests, not because we are all very dull and don't like anything :lol:

 

I was trying to explain the 10,000 hour number to people who haven't read the book. Some seemed to think the number was undoable.

 

 

That's because the book is about the pinnacle of success, not about the average.

 

Rosie

 

Right. I just thought he should acknowledge that the world actually needs more music teachers than world class soloists. Who would make up their audience then? Who would kindle passion in young children just beginning?

[Sara in AZ]

My husband read this book six months ago or so. He becomes quite obsessive about whatever current theory he's on. It led to many heated discussions about whether or not studying piano from age 4 until my eventual master's degree in piano performance constituted 10,000 hours and what kind of practice counted for hours. He then proceeded to make a detailed schedule for how long our dd7 would need to practice the violin to reach 10,000 hours, at which ages she would have to increase her practice to 45 min. a day or an hour a day, etc. We still talk about 10,000 hours all the time. (Mostly as a joke!)

[Rebecca VA]

The author (either the author of Outliers or the author of Talent is Overrated, which is very similar) makes a point of saying that the 10,000 hours have to be spent in very deliberate, focused practice. Otherwise all older people, who have put 10,000 (or 20,000 or more) hours into their careers, would be world-class experts in whatever they do. And very few of them are. Most people just do whatever they're doing with half their brainpower. So you can't say that you've put your 10,000 hours in unless you've spent that time seriously focused, possibly with a coach guiding you, and deliberately trying to improve.

[Wheres Toto]

sounds like your dd and my dd would get along quite well! ballet and forensics, an interesting combination!

 

I know, I was shocked when she came up with forensics. Although, my degree is in Biology and dh (her stepdad) is in Chemistry so at least we can help her with coursework if necessary.

 

I definitely never had anything that I felt passionate enough about to spend 10,000 hours at except reading. And that wasn't done to get better at it (although I tested a college reading level in 6th grade).

 

My daughter is about to turn 16, has gone to PUBLIC school her whole life and is currently at approximately 9,360 hours of dancing - not counting performance time and will certainly hit her 10,000 before graduating high school. That would be practice hours only. In all honesty - she's never going to be a prima ballerina. Ballet is not her passion - she does tap, jazz and musical theatre, in addition to ballet and pointe. She's probably good enough to dance on Broadway (her old dance teacher is a Rockette) but there are thousands of dancers that are just as good. So, while I've always encouraged her to continue dancing I've also always emphasized studying something that will lead to a satisfying career (once she was in high school anyway, she could call it a fall back position if she wanted - the career life of a dancer is pretty short at best). We didn't encourage, transport and pay ($$$) for her dance because we thought it would lead to a lucrative career. It was something she loves, that keeps her in good shape, taught her responsibility and gives her a lot of poise and maturity. We can never know which of our kids passions may lead to a career but I think we should encourage them (without pushing our dreams), even if they are never more than a hobby.

[laughing lioness]

I also thought the point about getting to a certain height for BB or I.Q. for law school was arbitrary after a certain point and that being "good enough" was, in fact, good enough.

Also, we know several people who are indeed "experts" in their field. But what does that mean? If you aren't backed by Oprah or have people invest in your idea, or have media attention, then it means you are an expert in your (maybe small) circle of influence. I would venture to think that we are surrounded by more experts than we realize at any given time.

[Luanne]

.

ETA: After seeing some of the other posts I realized that I too spent my

10,000 hours reading. I read every chance I got. I read all summer up in the tree house. I read off a list of classics one of my teachers gave me. I read at lunch instead of eating. I read my textbooks when I didn't have anything else.

 

 

I wish I had been given the opportunity to read growing up. My parents didn't have a lot of money and what little money they did have they did not want to "squander" on books. The didn't see any value in reading. They wouldn't even take me to the library so I could check out book. I am making up for it now though ... I just wish I could have read at least some growing up.

[laughing lioness]

I posted a review of Outliers on my blog. This book sparked so many thoughts for me. Has anyone read Gladwell's other 2? Blink and The Tipping Point? I'd love to hear what you thought of those as well.

[plansrme]

Its funny you should bring this subject up. Its one I have discussed with my daughter many times. My parents would never have put aside their own interests long enough for any of the children to pursue something with vigor (long term).

 

I was an avid reader and so was my father so 2-3 times/week we visited the library.

 

I was never encouraged to pursue a sport or music, etc.

 

My daughter is an ice skater and I devote 1000% of my time/energy to making time/money so she can pursue ice skating. We are at the rink 6 days/week (sometimes before the sun rises and are there late at night 2 days/week).

 

Her middle years (she is 13) are so different than mine. She is focused, happy, energetic and looks forward to everyday with excitement.

 

I am coming late to this discussion, but this was an excellent post. My daughters are both involved in their respective sports at a fairly intense level, and I also have had similar conversations with each of them. Their sports bring them joy and focus, and one can never underestimate the value of repeatedly seeing positive results from one's hard work.

 

Terri