Son dissing homeschooling--how to listen for truth when I'm defensive

[Chris in VA]

Ds 18 (Sky) is the only kid of mine who never homeschooled. Frankly, he didn't want to, and we did offer, but we were not going to insist. There were multiple dynamics at work at the time. Anyway, he is very disparaging of his sister's homeschool experience.

I have to say that he is right about some things--she really has only one friend, and that is from church, not from the one year she spent in public school. She does have kids she considers friends from church, but they don't ever, ever invite her anywhere or see her anywhere other than church (where they play happily and have a grand time). She does often isolate with reading or playing alone outside--she's basically an only child because her siblings are older, and one goes to college now.

 

I'm not going to put her back in her Scout troop for other reasons, and she doesn't participate in anything else except church choir (has piano lessons, but that's just one-on-one, of course). We don't live in a neighborhood--we live on 40 acres of church property with no one "next door" except the folks in the graveyard, and they aren't too peppy.

 

Anyway, what Sky says is that she won't learn to make friends and she will have an unhappy life if she doesn't go to school by middle school. Now, bearing in mind all the carp that happened in HIS life at that age, largely due to friends, of course I don't want dd in middle school. I find myself extremely defensive, tho, and I want to go beyond the "I know best, thanks for your concern, there are other ways to make friends, middle school is full of sharks, etc. etc." stuff.

 

There's just a lot of baggage in his life--he felt left out, he felt different (he left himself out, he WAS different), he didn't want to homeschool but wanted to be close with our family--he couldn't believe Christianity but wanted to be close with our family,--oh my, there's just a lot there.

 

How do I listen, reassure him we did the best we could, and also tell him to back off the criticism (or not tell him that, but not feel torn inside)?

[Scarlett]

Ds 18 (Sky) is the only kid of mine who never homeschooled. Frankly, he didn't want to, and we did offer, but we were not going to insist. There were multiple dynamics at work at the time. Anyway, he is very disparaging of his sister's homeschool experience.

I have to say that he is right about some things--she really has only one friend, and that is from church, not from the one year she spent in public school. She does have kids she considers friends from church, but they don't ever, ever invite her anywhere or see her anywhere other than church (where they play happily and have a grand time). She does often isolate with reading or playing alone outside--she's basically an only child because her siblings are older, and one goes to college now.

 

I'm not going to put her back in her Scout troop for other reasons, and she doesn't participate in anything else except church choir (has piano lessons, but that's just one-on-one, of course). We don't live in a neighborhood--we live on 40 acres of church property with no one "next door" except the folks in the graveyard, and they aren't too peppy.

 

Anyway, what Sky says is that she won't learn to make friends and she will have an unhappy life if she doesn't go to school by middle school. Now, bearing in mind all the carp that happened in HIS life at that age, largely due to friends, of course I don't want dd in middle school. I find myself extremely defensive, tho, and I want to go beyond the "I know best, thanks for your concern, there are other ways to make friends, middle school is full of sharks, etc. etc." stuff.

 

There's just a lot of baggage in his life--he felt left out, he felt different (he left himself out, he WAS different), he didn't want to homeschool but wanted to be close with our family--he couldn't believe Christianity but wanted to be close with our family,--oh my, there's just a lot there.

 

How do I listen, reassure him we did the best we could, and also tell him to back off the criticism (or not tell him that, but not feel torn inside)?

 

First your daughter's life life sounds lovely.

 

As for your son, maybe he is looking for reassurance that he was right to insist on going to school. Maybe he WISHES he had homeschooled and now he is a little jealous of his sister? I don't know...

 

If I were you I would probably gently remind him that you are indeed the parent and although you are sure he wants what is best for his sister, there are things he really can't understand at age 18.

 

And then give yourself a big pat on the back for doing the very best you can for all your kids!

[katemary63]

Sorry, but my comment is about your daughter. :D

 

4-H! You have 40 acres! Get some rabbits, or chickens. Even a goat. You have NO IDEA how many great friends she will have in 4-H. All our best friends are 4-H friends, not church or homeschool group.

 

Also, Awanas - even if your church doesn't offer it, we just drop our DD8 off at the Baptist church down the road. She LOVES it and has lots of friends from there.

[Chris in VA]

I may have her do AWANAs next year--wanted to last year, but she had choir on Weds--

 

We really only have a few acres of cleared land--some is built up with the church and the graveyard, and the rest is either our yard or the woods, so I'm not sure she can raise a 4H animal. Maybe something small? No chickens--stinky! (Personally, I'd love to do some other animal.)

[Garga]

If it were me, I would listen carefully to what he says as an outside observer who loves his sister. He thinks she needs social outlets. His solution is to send her to school. I might agree with his assessment about her needing social outlets, but not his solution.

 

If I were you, I'd start with the friends she already has and invite her church friends to your house constantly. Invite one at a time, or a few at a time. But I'd invite some sort of friend to your house every week or every other week. It doesn't matter if they don't reciprocate. You're not doing this for them, you're doing this for your daughter, so just invite them for her sake.

 

Then branch out from there (awanas, 4H, look for other groups.)

[kalanamak]

I take issue, after meeting my hubby's teenage daughters, with teens to feel perfectly at home "taking inventory" on their elders and betters. I would not have DREAMED of doing so to my parents. I am also not pleased with mere acquaintances pulling me aside and "correcting" things that really aren't their business. (I can tell they are not really being kind but judgmental, like "the clothes you wear make you look like a Mormon"....as long as it is neat and covers what adult has the right to make sour comments on my clothes!).

 

I, personally, would tell this teen:

 

I know that having strong opinions and taking a stance makes people feel powerful, but there is a danger in this frontal method of tromping over the nuances.

 

As cliche as it sounds, I have been around many years longer than you and simply have more experience in what is fruitful in a child's life in the long run.

 

Pick an issue that needs your passion (a version of talk is cheap). (I really wish my husband's daughters could have put their energy into working at a food bank instead of recoiling in horror at the disgusting thought of two middle-aged people having a (yuck you know how they make babies) BABY.)

 

And then I'd pass the bean dip. If he is whispering rebellion in your daughter's ear, I'd put my foot down.

 

I think my mother, channeling her parenting skills here, would given a tinkling giggle and passed the bean dip. But in my family, social faux pas were treated with benign negligent after the teeniest acknowledgment, such as knowing glances between other members, or a giggle. It was a clear signal to us that one's social fly was open, or that one's logic was mis-buttoned.

Edited November 27, 2009 by kalanamak
spelling

[Scarlett]

I take issue, after meeting my hubby's teenage daughters, with teens to feel perfectly at home "taking inventory" on their elders and betters.

 

I know that having strong opinions and taking a stance makes people feel powerful, but there is a danger in this frontal method of tromping over the nuances.

 

As cliche as it sounds, I have been around many years longer than you and simply have more experience in what is fruitful in a child's life in the long run.

 

I think my mother, channeling her parenting skills here, would given a tinkling giggle and passed the bean dip. But in my family, social faux pas were treated with benign negligent after the teeniest acknowledgment, such as knowing glances between other members, or a giggle. It was a clear signal to use that one's social fly was open, or that one's logic was mis-buttoned.

 

LOVE this post.

[Doodle]

When I was your daughter's age, I had only one friend. And I went to public school. I do not believe school equals friends and a social outgoing personality. I am proof of that. It just isn't who I am. I knew people, talked to people, but I am introverted and more of a loner. Reading and quiet are my things. I spent my free time at school in the library. I did not participate in group activities or sports. On the reverse side, I do not think homeschool nor having an only child equals an introvert shy unsocial child. Doodle is proof of that! My kid is the exact opposite of me.

[Remudamom]

Excuse me, but your son doesn't know what he's talking about. I wouldn't let him poison my dd if I were you. I'd be firm about letting him know that his problems are his problems and not to foist them off on the rest of you.

 

Sounds like he needs to man up, but then just about every 18 yr old boy does. And yes, I said boy.

[Garga]

I take issue, after meeting my hubby's teenage daughters, with teens to feel perfectly at home "taking inventory" on their elders and betters. I would not have DREAMED of doing so to my parents. I am also not pleased with mere acquaintances pulling me aside and "correcting" things that really aren't their business. (I can tell they are not really being kind but judgmental, like "the clothes you wear make you look like a Mormon"....as long as it is neat and covers what adult has the right to make sour comments on my clothes!).

 

I, personally, would tell this teen:

 

I know that having strong opinions and taking a stance makes people feel powerful, but there is a danger in this frontal method of tromping over the nuances.

 

As cliche as it sounds, I have been around many years longer than you and simply have more experience in what is fruitful in a child's life in the long run.

 

Pick an issue that needs your passion (a version of talk is cheap). (I really wish my husband's daughters could have put their energy into working at a food bank instead of recoiling in horror at the disgusting thought of two middle-aged people having a (yuck you know how they make babies) BABY.)

 

And then I'd pass the bean dip. If he is whispering rebellion in your daughter's ear, I'd put my foot down.

 

I think my mother, channeling her parenting skills here, would given a tinkling giggle and passed the bean dip. But in my family, social faux pas were treated with benign negligent after the teeniest acknowledgment, such as knowing glances between other members, or a giggle. It was a clear signal to use that one's social fly was open, or that one's logic was mis-buttoned.

 

I don't love this post. It's amazingly cruel to anyone younger than yourself. I mean, calling yourself a "better?" Really, we're not in 1600's England here. You may be an elder, you may be more mature, you may have more wisdom, but you're not better.

 

While I understand that youth can be passionate and bark up the wrong tree, that's no reason to totally dismiss them. There have been plenty of people who have made huge contributions to the world around them at very young ages. There are some people that are sometimes referred to as "old souls" who seem to be born with maturity and wisdom at startling young ages.

 

When I was young, my mother used to sit at the dining room table with me and listen while I tried to work out the world around me and figure out what I thought about things. I think back and some of my opinions and ideas were hopelessly naive or high-handed, but I'm grateful that she loved me and gave consideration to what I said/thought and then gently countered me with her experienced opinion without belittling my own.

 

I would not recommend the OP to cut down her son. I stand by my recommendation to listen to him and consider (with her own years of experience and wisdom) how to deal with the issue he brings up. If he doesn't like her solution, she can always stand firm, but without telling him to mind his betters and basically inferring he's a ninny. He's a burgeoning adult and needs to be treated as such.

[Scarlett]

If it were me, I would listen carefully to what he says as an outside observer who loves his sister. He thinks she needs social outlets. His solution is to send her to school. I might agree with his assessment about her needing social outlets, but not his solution.

 

If I were you, I'd start with the friends she already has and invite her church friends to your house constantly. Invite one at a time, or a few at a time. But I'd invite some sort of friend to your house every week or every other week. It doesn't matter if they don't reciprocate. You're not doing this for them, you're doing this for your daughter, so just invite them for her sake.

 

Then branch out from there (awanas, 4H, look for other groups.)

 

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought the issue was less about the validity of the ds's concerns, and more about how Chris should cope with his voicing such concerns as if he is the parent or wiser than the actual parents.

[Garga]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought the issue was less about the validity of the ds's concerns, and more about how Chris should cope with his voicing such concerns as if he is the parent or wiser than the actual parents.

 

Ok--I reread the post. Yes, the last question was more of how to deal with the older son.

 

I'd still listen to him, because you love him and want him to know that you're there for him. By actively listening, you keep the doors open for him to continue to come to you with issues.

 

Make sure he knows you're considering the things he said and listening to his point of view.

 

Come up with your own solution. Let him know your solution and why you've made it.

 

If he doesn't like the solution, then you'll have to let him know that it's just not his decision. But politely. Not with an attitude of "you're just a dumb kid without any life experience," but with a polite bean-dip attitude. Then wait for him to grow up a little more.

 

You could (depending on the kid) engage him and find out why he thinks his solution will work (sending his sister to school.) Ask him specifically how she would thrive in a situation where he didn't. What has changed about schools since he's been there? What should she do if she's teased, bullied, ostracized? Make him follow his solution through all the scenarios.

 

I guess my philosophy with dealing with almost-adults is to try to give them as much respect as possible, but at the same time hold true to what I know from my life-experience. I was working full-time at a "real" job (not McD's) at 17 and married by 19. I considered myself an adult. If my mother had treated me like a small child if I came to her with something that I felt was important to my sister, it would have closed doors between us for years.

 

I just see no reason for the OP to tear down her son. Treating his concerns with respect will start to lead to him being able to accept her solution with respect. The more he feels "unheard" the louder he will shout out his opinion. If he feels completely "heard," he'll be able to accept her decision better.

 

Ok--I need to get out of here and go shopping for a new couch while everything's on sale.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Garga

[lgm]

Sounds like son has forgotten his U.S. History. Many children have grown up healthily with just the family around for long lengths of time. A once a month or a seasonal trip into town was fine for childhood.

 

I do hear these things from my teen about his sib. I remind him that introverts and extroverts are different, and that being at school doesn't mean he'll meet compatible people. The pool to draw from is relatively small, b/c of the location we are in and my inability to welcome violent or mean children into our home.

[Remudamom]

Garga, I think you are right, or would be right if the boy was trying to figure out the world around him. But it sounds like to me (and I could be wrong, I don't know him and haven't heard his tone of voice) that's he's being a pain in the butt know it all teen, and I wouldn't put up with him one second.

 

If he wants to speculate and wonder about the world as it relates to him, fine. Telling your parents how to raise their children is unacceptable.

[Murphy101]

Excuse me, but your son doesn't know what he's talking about. I wouldn't let him poison my dd if I were you. I'd be firm about letting him know that his problems are his problems and not to foist them off on the rest of you.

 

Sounds like he needs to man up, but then just about every 18 yr old boy does. And yes, I said boy.

 

I take issue, after meeting my hubby's teenage daughters, with teens to feel perfectly at home "taking inventory" on their elders and betters. I would not have DREAMED of doing so to my parents. I am also not pleased with mere acquaintances pulling me aside and "correcting" things that really aren't their business. (I can tell they are not really being kind but judgmental, like "the clothes you wear make you look like a Mormon"....as long as it is neat and covers what adult has the right to make sour comments on my clothes!).

 

I, personally, would tell this teen:

 

I know that having strong opinions and taking a stance makes people feel powerful, but there is a danger in this frontal method of tromping over the nuances.

 

As cliche as it sounds, I have been around many years longer than you and simply have more experience in what is fruitful in a child's life in the long run.

 

Pick an issue that needs your passion (a version of talk is cheap). (I really wish my husband's daughters could have put their energy into working at a food bank instead of recoiling in horror at the disgusting thought of two middle-aged people having a (yuck you know how they make babies) BABY.)

 

And then I'd pass the bean dip. If he is whispering rebellion in your daughter's ear, I'd put my foot down.

 

I think my mother, channeling her parenting skills here, would given a tinkling giggle and passed the bean dip. But in my family, social faux pas were treated with benign negligent after the teeniest acknowledgment, such as knowing glances between other members, or a giggle. It was a clear signal to use that one's social fly was open, or that one's logic was mis-buttoned.

 

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought the issue was less about the validity of the ds's concerns, and more about how Chris should cope with his voicing such concerns as if he is the parent or wiser than the actual parents.

 

Yes, what these ladies said.

 

My oldest is 14 and altho there's many siblings between him and the little ones, there are times he makes comments already that he thinks I'm wrong, unfair or whatever with the littler ones. I think it's somewhat universal for olders to compare youngers and to begin to comtemplate what they will do different some far day in the future as a parent.

 

If done respectfully, as in not disparraging or hateful or rebelliously, then I simply and humbly tell them the truth. That I will do things differently with youngers than them, in large part thanks to what I've learned in the trenches parenting the olders. God bless their hearts, those oldest ones are guinea pigs. I truely feel deep empathy and sorrow for them at times!

 

I'd be honest and say that being friendly with a bunch of people does not equal having a lot of friends. And that I'd rather have one tried and true always has your back friend than a horde of only going to be there for the fun friends. And that one day when your son is older, he will see that far clearer than he does now. He'll see the amazing value of that one good friend.

 

Also not everyone wants to be a social butterfly. Some just aren't into that. Just because he wouldn't be happy with your dd's life, does not mean that she is unhappy. Instead of looking on in judgement, he needs to look with honesty and if he sees she is happy and thriving - then he needs to mind his own business instead of souring her due to his own preferrences.

 

Now, if he truely sees his sister unhappy, then I'd simply state that home schooling isn't going to change - ever - so constructive ideas for how to meet her needs otherwise might be nice. Maybe if there's a schedule conflict he could take her to an activity for you or something for example.

[Scarlett]

Ok--I reread the post. Yes, the last question was more of how to deal with the older son.

 

I'd still listen to him, because you love him and want him to know that you're there for him. By actively listening, you keep the doors open for him to continue to come to you with issues.

 

Make sure he knows you're considering the things he said and listening to his point of view.

 

Come up with your own solution. Let him know your solution and why you've made it.

 

If he doesn't like the solution, then you'll have to let him know that it's just not his decision. But politely. Not with an attitude of "you're just a dumb kid without any life experience," but with a polite bean-dip attitude. Then wait for him to grow up a little more.

 

You could (depending on the kid) engage him and find out why he thinks his solution will work (sending his sister to school.) Ask him specifically how she would thrive in a situation where he didn't. What has changed about schools since he's been there? What should she do if she's teased, bullied, ostracized? Make him follow his solution through all the scenarios.

 

I guess my philosophy with dealing with almost-adults is to try to give them as much respect as possible, but at the same time hold true to what I know from my life-experience. I was working full-time at a "real" job (not McD's) at 17 and married by 19. I considered myself an adult. If my mother had treated me like a small child if I came to her with something that I felt was important to my sister, it would have closed doors between us for years.

 

I just see no reason for the OP to tear down her son. Treating his concerns with respect will start to lead to him being able to accept her solution with respect. The more he feels "unheard" the louder he will shout out his opinion. If he feels completely "heard," he'll be able to accept her decision better.

 

Ok--I need to get out of here and go shopping for a new couch while everything's on sale.

 

I don't think anyone was really saying to 'tear him down.' However, I do think it is highly disrespectful for an 18 year old to try and tell his parents how to parent his 9 yo sister.

[jld]

Garga, your way of dealing with people, young or old, by respectfully listening to them while gently challenging their lack of experience, is an excellent way to build relationships. Thank you for sharing that.

[hillfarm]

IMO, it all depends on whether the son was voicing his concerns during a time when he was invited to "pour out his thoughts" to his mother, or whether he took it upon himself to tell her this, among all the other stuff, that she was doing wrong. (At age 18, it is ALL our faults that they are messed up. My response is to ask, "What are you going to now do to change your problems?")

 

In addition, this is one of those things which would depend upon his intent. Did he offer his comments out of a true love and concern for his sister or was it primarily a condemnation of his imperfect mother (that he will realize was doing the best she could, when he hits thirtysomething)?

 

Regarding the substance of the complaint, my dd is an only child and just turned 11. At age 9, she had no friends and considered herself very lonely, even though she had church activities and also was in 4-H. We talked about how to be a friend and how to create and maintain friendships. Then all of a sudden, she met another girl her age and they became fast friends, then another and even one boy she knew previously. All of a sudden dd considered herself to be quite the social butterfly. Now, even though those initial friendships sometimes wax and wane, she still thinks of herself as having lots of friends.

 

That said, however, I would keep a close eye on this. One family in our homeschool 4-H club are rather isolationists and their children are painfully shy even among other homeschoolers. I do worry that their 16yo dd will have difficulty adjusting to life in a couple of years when she either goes off to college or begins missionary work as she has planned. Although the OP's ds might have expressed himself inappropriately, he may still have a point and I would encourage her to consider that perhaps there may be some difficulty that needs to be addressed.

[mcconnellboys]

I see that you have an older daughter who homeschooled during the all important high school years. Did she have a good experience? Could she help ease the situation by talking to him from her own perspective and let him know that things turned out okay for her? It seems that they are closer in age, do they have a good relationship that would allow him to be open to her comments?

[AndyJoy]

Here's another vote for having only one friend being fine. Though I'm quite extroverted in social situations and can get along with lots of people, I don't really connect with many people on a deeper level, so I never really consider them friends in a true sense. I've always been a one-best-friend kind of girl. Though I attended both Christian and public school, I only ever had one good friend at a time. I chatted with peers at church and school, but never was invited to do stuff outside of school or church because we had different values/priorities. I always found one girl with whom I was a "kindred spirit" and we were inseparable. Unfortunately, my best friend moved away when I was a freshman, so I spent high school without even one close friend who lived locally. You know what? I was perfectly "normal" and happy anyway. I was briefly lonely at times, but in the long run I think it was a good thing. I managed to completely avoid the whole teenage angst/rebellion thing that most people take for granted. I partially credit not having a large group of drama-laden teenage girlfriends for this. I mean, I never even had a girl do the whole "I'm not talking to you because I'm mad!" thing to me until college!:D

[Wildiris]

How do I listen, reassure him we did the best we could, and also tell him to back off the criticism (or not tell him that, but not feel torn inside)?

I've encountered similar criticism from my older sons about their younger sisters who are home schooled. My response to the criticism is that everyone needs something different. What works for one person does not always work for another. Take in the criticism without judgment, and move on with the conversation.

[Chris in VA]

I see that you have an older daughter who homeschooled during the all important high school years. Did she have a good experience? Could she help ease the situation by talking to him from her own perspective and let him know that things turned out okay for her? It seems that they are closer in age, do they have a good relationship that would allow him to be open to her comments?

 

If this is addressed to me (not viewing in the right threaded mode! lol), he actually has an older brother ("Film Buff") who probably has Asperger's and is now expressing regrets that he isolated at home and never learned to be social. Which is carp, actually--he WANTED to be home, refused to go to school, and did not have a terrible time here. He is now noticing his own lack of social skills, and does blame his decision and ours to homeschool him, and has expressed that to his brother. Ds18, however, seems to forget that the entire family was in the midst of the addiction cycle during the 4 years his brother homeschooled, and that the social issues were not because of homeschooling, per se, but because of being an Aspie--Film Buff would have wilted in the typical high school setting, and was much happier at home. I will say, tho, that we should have found some social therapy for him, and didn't. Not that he would have gone...but we could have "made" him, and it would have been good for him. Lots of our energy at the time, however, went to merely surviving ds18's addiction drama.

 

As I process our homeschooling journey and see these varying perspectives, it is a little rough emotionally, but I did my best at the time, and I can't spend a lot of my life looking back and saying What If, because that leads to discontent, guilt, and living in a fantasy world. I don't want to rob myself of Now, looking back at Then, trying to fix the past, which is, of course, impossible.

 

Still, it is good for me to hear my children's opinions, and stay open. ITA with those who have said they find his questioning disrespectful--there is an element of that, but I'm trying not to take it personally. Your perspectives are valued--thanks.

[Laurie4b]

I think you've got two issues here that it would be helpful to separate: 1) is how you deal with criticism from your son and 2) how you feel about dd's homeschool experience.

 

As my oldest was hitting puberty, I asked an older homeschooled boy (late teens/early 20's) whom I thought had turned out well what his advice was to parents beginning to deal with arguing, etc. from their kids. I wanted to hear from someone who could still remember what it was like . I think he gave me really good advice. He said, "Let them know that they have a point. It might not be *the* point, but if they have a point, it affirms that you respect their ability to think separately from you."

 

So, I think it would be great for your relationship with your son if you acknowledged that he is expressing some valid concerns and that you will ponder them with dh, your daughter and see what you come up with. That validates his wisdom (and you said he's right about some of it) and affirms that he is a valued part of your family (not always the odd one out, etc.) If he keeps arguing, I would keep agreeing with him: You've brought up some good points, and dad, sis, and I will take those into consideration for her. Each of you is different and what would have been best for you may not be best for her. But thanks so much for bringing this up. (In other words, affirm him as much as possible while drawing a boundary around who is going to decide how those concerns will be handled.)

 

If he gets ugly beyond this, then saying things in an ugly way becomes the issue.

 

Secondly, it sounds like you also have those concerns--but maybe a different thread for alternate social ideas would be good.

[Joanne]

"I hear what you are saying. I hear the love behind it. I agree that developing the right social level and activities for dd is important. Things are not where I want them for her right now. However, I disagree with your solution. And I need to remind you that undermining a parental decision in front of her through criticsm of a decision we've made is not acceptable."

 

Anyway, what Sky says is that she won't learn to make friends and she will have an unhappy life if she doesn't go to school by middle school.

 

This is where the limits of being 18 show. ;) It's a simplistic solution that misses the mark on what he's really trying to convey about social activity and skills. It lacks knowledge of temperment, of the complexity of middle school social dynamics, of the long range effects of middle school choices and it embraces an idea made valid only through tenacity and authority - not through empirical evidence.

 

From few friends @ 9 to "unhappy life" and "won't learn to make friends" is a huge, dramatic leap.

 

No need to dismiss his love and concern; but there is also no need to weigh inappropriately heavily his evaluation of it all, either.

[melmichigan]

Now, if he truely sees his sister unhappy, then I'd simply state that home schooling isn't going to change - ever - so constructive ideas for how to meet her needs otherwise might be nice. Maybe if there's a schedule conflict he could take her to an activity for you or something for example.

 

:iagree: If she is actually unhappy. We all have different personalities. Some of us are just not social animals. We are content on our own. Your DD sounds just like I was as a child, except the cemetery of course. :)

 

On another front, your comments about your oldest have given me pause. My oldest is an Aspie and begging not to attend PS even for English, which she does now. We plan to pull her for Spring semester.

 

We do the best we can, with the information we have at the time.

[Jolash]

I take issue, after meeting my hubby's teenage daughters, with teens to feel perfectly at home "taking inventory" on their elders and betters. I would not have DREAMED of doing so to my parents. I am also not pleased with mere acquaintances pulling me aside and "correcting" things that really aren't their business. (I can tell they are not really being kind but judgmental, like "the clothes you wear make you look like a Mormon"....as long as it is neat and covers what adult has the right to make sour comments on my clothes!).

 

I, personally, would tell this teen:

 

I know that having strong opinions and taking a stance makes people feel powerful, but there is a danger in this frontal method of tromping over the nuances.

 

As cliche as it sounds, I have been around many years longer than you and simply have more experience in what is fruitful in a child's life in the long run.

 

Pick an issue that needs your passion (a version of talk is cheap). (I really wish my husband's daughters could have put their energy into working at a food bank instead of recoiling in horror at the disgusting thought of two middle-aged people having a (yuck you know how they make babies) BABY.)

 

And then I'd pass the bean dip. If he is whispering rebellion in your daughter's ear, I'd put my foot down.

 

I think my mother, channeling her parenting skills here, would given a tinkling giggle and passed the bean dip. But in my family, social faux pas were treated with benign negligent after the teeniest acknowledgment, such as knowing glances between other members, or a giggle. It was a clear signal to use that one's social fly was open, or that one's logic was mis-buttoned.

 

:iagree:

Why should you take lip off a teenager, just because he's your child? Sure he's entitled to his opinion, but he needs to show some respect. You are after all, his parent, NOT his peer.

[elegantlion]

I went to public school and only had a few friends. I wasn't social, my parents didn't encourage social activities after school and by high school my social outlets were less desirable, hanging out with people in similar situations. So public school is not necessarily the answer.

 

Do you believe your dd needs more socializing? I agree that 4H may be an option, we joined a homeschool group and we don't have anything to do with animals, it's just a student-led organization and there are many projects besides animals. I've been impressed, for the few shorts months we've been involved.

 

As far as your ds, I don't know. With the issues he's had the fact he is expressing concern about someone else might be a plus. I certainly wouldn't cut off his concerns, but maybe dialogue. Even at 18 he's entitled to his opinion and should be allowed to voice it, as long as he can be respectful and listen to yours.

 

Obviously you are the parent and the decision about school is yours until you allow them the freedom to decide (depending on your philosophy on that). Homeschooling doesn't mean lack of socialization unless we make it that way. Perhaps he think his dd is smarter than he was and wouldn't get caught up making some of the same bad choices. That's hard to predict.

 

Perhaps you could engage him in helping find some acceptable outlets that ds and dd could do together.

 

:grouphug: to you.

[Audrey]

I may have her do AWANAs next year--wanted to last year, but she had choir on Weds--

 

We really only have a few acres of cleared land--some is built up with the church and the graveyard, and the rest is either our yard or the woods, so I'm not sure she can raise a 4H animal. Maybe something small? No chickens--stinky! (Personally, I'd love to do some other animal.)

 

 

You don't have to raise any animals to do 4-H. There are plenty of other projects one can do. But, I would encourage you to do it. For some reason, kids in 4-H seem to be very accepting, cooperative and encouraging. Ds is in two 4-H groups (one is a Beef Club, the other a general club) and all of the kids I've met seem like plain ol' decent folks.

[lakotajm]

My dd13 did cake decorating a few years ago in 4-H. She really enjoyed it. She took a class at the local Hobby Lobby along with grown ladies!

[LittleIzumi]

It is entirely possible to go to public school for years and NOT socialize/learn to make friends. Trust me ;)

[Chris in VA]

Patty,

No, Sky isn't a believing Christian. He has taken the step thru AA of believing in a Higher Power, but not the Christian God or a Creator (it's complicated! lol); this is one of the isolating factors in his relationship with the rest of the family. Honestly, I think he sees homeschooling in such a complicated way--the "baggage" I mentioned includes his anger at the Church taking away his Daddy's time, which he is still dealing (or not dealing) with. He knows we use Christian materials with our daughter, and that rubs him the wrong way. Not going to change that, but I know he feels we are wrong in "brainwashing" her. He has gotten less vitrolic about that, tho.

 

I like the idea of 4H and will explore it, and I just appreciate being able to hear your opinions on what to do. Joanne, having words to use really helps me.

 

Frankly, it's humbling to have a teen express discontent this way--he has hit a sore spot, and it is my problem, not really his.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: Eighteen year olds...Well they can be well meaning but have so little life experience, I'd take a pass on the parenting advice. I think he hit your sore spot, and as another poster mentioned feels empowered with his big ideas. kwim?

[Greta Lea]

One of my best friends just pulled her 8th grade son out of regular school. He has no *real* friends there. He is VERY reclusive and does NOT like to play all the "social games" that go on in schools, espcially in middle school.

 

He's only been homeschooling now for about 2 weeks, but is amazingly HAPPY now. His mom was planning to see a counselor for him (he was SOOO unhappy) if pulling him out of school didn't help his disposition any. Thankfully, it has!

 

Going to school does NOT make one be social. You are either a social creature or you are not. Anyway, school is THE worst place for a kid to try to learn social skills.

[LibraryLover]

If it were my ds, I would assume he's coming from a place of concern. I would try to reassure, while also stating that you understand it's different from his own educational experience.

 

My oldest was not hs'd and he is very supportive (he 21) but at first he had questions. Mostly because he adored school ( went to a very small private alternative school) and was afraid his sibs might miss out on the same nice experience. I had to reassure him that his experience was good, and his sibs would also have good experiences, even if they were going to be something unlike his.

 

He's obsevered his sibs hsing over the years and he thinks they are great. We talk about how different experiences are simply that: Different, and doesn't that make for interesting lives. You have nothing to defend, so don't go down that raod. "You're right. We are doing something very different. I think it's going to be pretty interesting! "

 

As for the social outlet, I do think that some children benefit from a couple of friends and others only need one, and maybe one social outlet. He may need more, and it's OK his sister needs less. If she is sharing with his she is lonely, then ask her about that. If she is not lonely and choir and 4h are enough, it's enough. Everyone has different social needs, and if hers are being met, she can tell him. My 17 yr old prefers a very small group of friends-- I think there are 4 people , plus family, on her FB. Her oldest brother, however, loves things like debate & spiritied group discussion on politics, music jamming groups etc. It's ok to be different. There is no one way.

Edited November 28, 2009 by LibraryLover

[dirty ethel rackham]

Garga and Joanne,

 

Can I stuff the two of you into my head so that I can have those wise words and attitudes when I come across them? At the original post, my knee-jerk reaction would be to stomp on the insolent little young whipper-snapper. I know I need to learn not to take umbrage, but doing so is a different story:).