Homemaker Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 My oldest will be K age next year and we will most likely be homeschooling. I have lurked on this board and seen comments about people not liking HSLDA. Can you please tell me why? Is there something I should know about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I can't say that I "don't like" HSLDA. I just know that they don't represent my views. They are very politically conservative and politically active, often in ways that are only very tangentially related to homeschooling. I don't believe that they speak for me as a homeschooler on many issues, and I feel very safe homeschooling without their help. I don't dislike HSLDA anymore than I "dislike" other groups that promote agendas that are more liberal or conservative (or just different) from what I believe. Everyone has a viewpoint. They just don't promote mine, and I don't want them to say that they represent homeschoolers generally, because they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They are very politically conservative and politically active, often in ways that are only very tangentially related to homeschooling. . I dislike any organization that takes my money and uses it to further causes that are not what the organization is clearly about. I refuse to join my local professional society because they support bills that I don't. Nor will I buy AARP insurance, etc. etc. But even if I did agree with 90% of what they were doing, I don't like the idea of a back-of-the-shop agenda. Many people, obviously, either like that they do what they do, or are indifferent and just want to feel "secure" with hs insurance. I believe they fearmonger some, too, to get people to desire "security". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They act as a conservative lobbying group. They, IIRC, don't help non-Christian families. They don't represent people in the cases that most homeschoolers find themselves in (primarily custody battles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why. I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country. I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others. I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?") I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn in OH Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I wouldn't exactly say that I dislike them, I just don't want to be a part of their group. They seem to have an agenda that is not necessarily always in the best interests of homeschoolers. They pick and choose who they want to represent. Fear monger tactics. They involve themselves in issues that go beyond homeschooling that I don't always support or believe in. From what I understand, there were involved in making some of the tougher restrictions for a few of the states that are more difficult to homeschool in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why. I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country. I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others. I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?") I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be. :iagree::iagree:, especially your last point. looking objectively at the emails they sent during the last election brought it home clearly.... fwiw, ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why. I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country. I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others. I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?") I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I like them about as much as I like my husband's teachers union. :glare: They each represent such extremes that they come across as absurd. I'm a moderation kind of gal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They don't represent me. I'm not Christian. I'm not Conservative. They get involved in other causes which I do not support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm a conservative Christian but don't like how HSLDA has pushed narrowly worded statements of faith specifically written to exclude many Christians, particularly members of my denomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 As a homeschooler, they do not represent me. As a Christian, they do not represent me. Politically, they are far, far too much to the right for me. I do not appreciate the fear mongering tactics, either. Fortunately, I live in a very friendly homeschooling state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I agree with the rest. I'm a Christian moderate. I don't hold to much of the agenda being pushed by HSLDA under the guise of protecting homeschooling. I don't like that they use fear mongering to scare people into believing they need legal insurance and yet don't always take the cases of their members. I don't like the idea that legal exclusions for homeschoolers should fall under freedom of religion or that religious homeschoolers should have more freedoms under the law than non-religious homeschoolers. Their politics are conservative and they frequently lobby for/against legislation that has nothing to do with homeschooling, they sometimes go on the news and imply that it does when it doesn't. I can't say that I "don't like" HSLDA. I just know that they don't represent my views. They are very politically conservative and politically active, often in ways that are only very tangentially related to homeschooling. I don't believe that they speak for me as a homeschooler on many issues, and I feel very safe homeschooling without their help. I don't dislike HSLDA anymore than I "dislike" other groups that promote agendas that are more liberal or conservative (or just different) from what I believe. Everyone has a viewpoint. They just don't promote mine, and I don't want them to say that they represent homeschoolers generally, because they don't. I dislike any organization that takes my money and uses it to further causes that are not what the organization is clearly about. I refuse to join my local professional society because they support bills that I don't. Nor will I buy AARP insurance, etc. etc. But even if I did agree with 90% of what they were doing, I don't like the idea of a back-of-the-shop agenda. Many people, obviously, either like that they do what they do, or are indifferent and just want to feel "secure" with hs insurance. I believe they fearmonger some, too, to get people to desire "security". They act as a conservative lobbying group. They, IIRC, don't help non-Christian families. They don't represent people in the cases that most homeschoolers find themselves in (primarily custody battles). I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why. I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country. I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others. I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?") I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be. I wouldn't exactly say that I dislike them, I just don't want to be a part of their group. They seem to have an agenda that is not necessarily always in the best interests of homeschoolers. They pick and choose who they want to represent. Fear monger tactics. They involve themselves in issues that go beyond homeschooling that I don't always support or believe in. From what I understand, there were involved in making some of the tougher restrictions for a few of the states that are more difficult to homeschool in. As a homeschooler, they do not represent me. As a Christian, they do not represent me. Politically, they are far, far too much to the right for me. I do not appreciate the fear mongering tactics, either. Fortunately, I live in a very friendly homeschooling state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 My oldest will be K age next year and we will most likely be homeschooling. I hope we answered your question. And welcome! What excitement you will have. Who needs TV dramas when you see your little hog on ice learning to read and do sums? I'll see if I can find that wonderful thread about "the one thing you wished you'd known when you were getting started". Great thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 We were members of HSLDA for many years, until they endorsed a candidate for president last election based on his religion, not his political record. That was the last straw. They talk big about the consitution and original intent of the founding father's but then they don't put their money where their mouth is. They made it clear that their religious agenda was far more important to them than equality under the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They are very politically conservative and politically active, often in ways that are only very tangentially related to homeschooling. And often in ways that aren't remotely related to homeschooling (e.g., opposing same-sex marriage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 And often in ways that aren't remotely related to homeschooling (e.g., opposing same-sex marriage). This is what the HSLDF says: Why HSLDA is Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage Parental rights are a recognized constitutional right despite the fact that they are not explicitly stated in the Constitution. It is a fair question to ask: if they are implied rights rather than explicit rights, what is the source of parental rights? Here is what the Supreme Court said in 2000 in the case of Troxel v. Granville: "Our jurisprudence historically has reflected Western civilization concepts of the family as a unit with broad parental authority over minor children. Our cases have consistently followed that course." Thus, you can see that parental rights are based on "western civilization concepts of the family." When those concepts are no longer the legal definition of the family in this nation, then the foundation upon which parental rights are based is completely removed. In a world which widely embraces the notions of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, it is fanciful to believe that any other theory will arise to replace the traditions of western civilization as a basis for parental rights. Therefore, HSLDA will continue to fight against same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage attacks the traditions of the family in western civilization. This is an attack on parental rights. This is a battle the homeschooling movement cannot afford to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have never, ever been able to figure it out. I read what people have written about why they dislike HSLDA, and it still makes no sense to me IMHO, anyone who homeschools should be a member, even if she lives in a "good" state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have never, ever been able to figure it out. I read what people have written about why they dislike HSLDA, and it still makes no sense to me IMHO, anyone who homeschools should be a member, even if she lives in a "good" state. So I should belong to an organization that discriminates against my denomination? That makes no sense to my mind... I don't really care what the leaders of HSLDA think about my denomination, but I'm not going to spend our family's hard-earned cash to support them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Oh, I know how they justify it. I just think it's a load of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Their political and religious views are very far from my own and I wouldn't want them speaking on my behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 If they truly represented ALL HSers, regardless of religion (or lack therof), political presuasion, style of HSing and type of curriculum and resaons for choosing it as an educational choice... then maybe we could all be on board. But they don't. They are VERY specific. They do do not care about HSing "freedom" or they would be all inclusive. They are generally fear mongers and often present themselves to state and federal entities as being THE voice of HSing. So, no.... not everyone should join the group. If it were that easy, all Americans would be members of one political party... just by being americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readwithem Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Their information isn't always accurate. We were looking at an expat assignment to Germany, and their website was grossly inaccurate (this was several years ago and I haven't checked them recently). As others have said, they get involved in issues that have nothing to do with homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They do do not care about HSing "freedom" or they would be all inclusive. Not being quite fair are you? It is certainly possible for a group to be extremely concerned about an issue while still not being inclusive of all belief systems. Many churches are very concerned about religious freedom but unless you hold the same religious beliefs that they do you are not welcome to be a member. Like the HSLDF or not, it really pushes the boundaries of credulity to state that they do not care about HSing freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have never, ever been able to figure it out. I read what people have written about why they dislike HSLDA, and it still makes no sense to me IMHO, anyone who homeschools should be a member, even if she lives in a "good" state. I did join them here in Canada. I was promised representation (talked directly to the lawyer). They were supposed to help me with WCB, and WCB's demands that I attend daytime programs, when I never worked a day shift, just 3-11. WCB isn't supposed to be able to demand you in your 'non work hours', and it would be a major disruption to our homeschooling, completely against everything we believed and made decisions upon as parents and Christians...I never heard back from them. What he told me BEFORE I sent in my fees changed completely. Went from yes, he could definitely be able to do something about it to nope, can't do anything, I'll do some research though...and I never heard back. Left msgs, etc, but nothing was ever responded to. I even offered to file a Human Rights complaint, as I felt this was about Freedom of Religion, but nope, no response. They called wanting me to reup my membership, and I told them exactly why I wouldn't be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Not being quite fair are you? It is certainly possible for a group to be extremely concerned about an issue while still not being inclusive of all belief systems. Many churches are very concerned about religious freedom but unless you hold the same religious beliefs that they do you are not welcome to be a member. Like the HSLDF or not, it really pushes the boundaries of credulity to state that they do not care about HSing freedom. When they represent themselves as being THE voice of homeschoolers to state, government and news agencies when they do NOT actually represent all HSers (ie. not HSing for a christian reason or style of Hsing... ) they are not promoting HS freedom. If they were promoting freedom, they would support unschoolers, relaxed hsers and others who do not follow their approved path of HSing. I am just one person sitting in my house with a keyboard... no need to attack me for my opinion. ;) Seriously, they have tried to get HS laws in more relaxed states more rigid and have lobbied for a national standard of HS rules and regs. I do not choose to really delve into their agendas or the nitty gritty of what they do, but in general I think they do more negative than positive. They are not my cup of tea. BTW what is the deal with HSLDA and HSLDF? Did they change something? Maybe we are talking about 2 different organizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I am just one person sitting in my house with a keyboard... no need to attack me for my opinion. ;) ... BTW what is the deal with HSLDA and HSLDF? Did they change something? Maybe we are talking about 2 different organizations? No attacks just simple discussion. They may not be THE voice but they are perhaps the most effective voice. As to the HSLDF.....just a misfiring of the synapses...it is HSLDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I am not a fan. This website explains some of the reasons why. I don't like them representing themselves as the voice of homeschooling, but not recognizing that they only speak for a portion of homeschoolers in this country. I don't like them mixing causes. I support some of theirs. I don't support others. I don't like them representing themselves as legal insurance, but picking and choosing which cases to take. Also, they misrepresent their ability to defend cases. There are many states where they can only act in an advisory capacity due to the fact that the do not have attorneys who can practice in every state. And they don't necessarily pay for the attorney that one must hire in those cases. (How is that "insurance?") I don't like their scare monger tactics. I think an informed and politically active populace is a better weapon against infringements upon the rights of homeschoolers than a big national organization working behind closed doors. I think that anyone who is interested in protecting their rights needs to meet face-to-face with their legislators so that they can see that we are real people, not who the media portrays us to be. :iagree: Definitely look at the link, but you pretty much said it all right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I like them about as much as I like my husband's teachers union. :glare: They each represent such extremes that they come across as absurd. ......... :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think that they create the disease that they purport to have the cure for. (great sentence!) It's like the TV preachers who are all, "we are xians bein persecuted. now buy my book to learn how to combat it!" :glare: If they make enough people think that they NEED their product then they make money, when, in actuality, they do not represent people who really need them....in many cases. On another board many moms said, "they are my insurance policy" when they even tell people that they are not a "legal insurance policy". Scary. And, many of the causes are not about homeschooling, they are about their own close-minded wrong-wing zealot agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 No attacks just simple discussion. They may not be THE voice but they are perhaps the most effective voice. I doubt it. Most stories I read of in the media are of individual homeschoolers or local organizations. Most people have their views influenced not by the HSLDA but by homeschoolers they've come to know in their own community. I think most often the most effective voices are those of homeschoolers and the local organizations they run. I sometimes have to deal with non-homeschooling people who have heard the HSLDA voices and based their impression of homeschoolers on that. Those impressions tend to be poor. That homeschoolers are mostly conservative, patriarchal Christians who justify their choices with the narrow self-selecting studies published by NHERI. The other troubling thing about your use of the word voice is that we should be our own voices. Our accomplishments and victories should be our own. Most accomplishments in terms of friendly legislation are not due to the HSLDA but to local and state groups founded and directed by ordinary homeschoolers. The HSLDA may be a help to some but it is not our voice and no matter what good they do for us we shouldn't give up our voice to some organization so far removed from the concerns of our families and communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think that they create the disease that they purport to have the cure for. (great sentence!) Exactly!! "Sign up with us and we'll stop the state from telling you how to educate your child. Meanwhile, sign this form where we tell you how to educate your child." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) The other troubling thing about your use of the word voice is that we should be our own voices. Our accomplishments and victories should be our own. Most accomplishments in terms of friendly legislation are not due to the HSLDA but to local and state groups founded and directed by ordinary homeschoolers. The HSLDA may be a help to some but it is not our voice and no matter what good they do for us we shouldn't give up our voice to some organization so far removed from the concerns of our families and communities. Calm down.....I used the word voice because that was the word used by the poster that I was quoting. I fully agree that we must make our voice heard, both individually and collectively. Edited November 22, 2009 by pqr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I do NOT like HSDLA and NEVER joined them in over 10 yrs of homeschooling in a state that is according to them difficult to homeschool in MA (NOT). :001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I joined the Canadian HSLDA but let my membership lapse because I thought they strayed way too far from homeschooling issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think that they create the disease that they purport to have the cure for. (great sentence!) :iagree: I'm with the majority on this one. I can't stand the alarmist tone in everything they put out, or that they'd use my money to further their own interests. IMO your money is far better spent on a membership to your statewide homeschooling group, rather than H$LDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I live in NY. Do you know why NY has so many regulations? In large part BECAUSE of HSLDA. http://www.homeedmag.com/HEM/185/sotch.html Wendy, Thanks for posting this link! I really like the writings of the Kasemans. I especially like this quote: Instead of introducing statutes or agreeing to regulations to gain the government's permission to homeschool, it generally works better to homeschool on the basis of the foundations of our freedom and work to prevent legislation. This is what homeschoolers are still doing successfully in states like Illinois and California. If legislation that undermines homeschooling freedoms is introduced despite efforts to prevent it, homeschoolers can then educate legislators and the general public and ask for their support. Small minorities have a much better chance of having their rights upheld if they are seen as beleaguered underdogs rather than people initiating legislation in their self-interest. We have worked very hard in IL to keep any reference to "home school" or "homeschooling" out of our laws. We are de facto private schools and we like it that way. Here, we have had issues with HSLDA coming in and ursurping the rights of individual citizens to participate in the legislative process by purporting to speak for all homeschoolers. It has been much more effective to belong to a state network to keep us informed of legislation that may have an impact on homeschooling and we contact our local legislators to voice our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 So I should belong to an organization that discriminates against my denomination? That makes no sense to my mind...! HSLDA does not discriminate against *any* religion or lack thereof. Sorry if you feel as if it does, but it is not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I don't dislike HSLDA, but neither am I a member for various reasons. It is interesting to me that on this board, the consensus seems to be negative, whereas on other homeschooling boards I've participated in, people talk about how vital HSLDA membership is and pressure others to join. I rarely hear (or see) homeschoolers tell others which curriculum they should use in a manner that suggests the matter is not up for debate, but I frequently hear homeschoolers tell others they should be HSLDA members. I think that may be one reason for the strong reactions from those who aren't supporters. Edited November 22, 2009 by WordGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I don't dislike HSLDA, but neither am I a member for various reasons. It is interesting to me that on this board, the consensus seems to be negative, whereas on other homeschooling boards I've participated in, people talk about how vital HSLDA membership is and pressure others to join. I rarely hear (or see) homeschoolers tell others which curriculum they should use in a manner that suggests the matter is not up for debate, but I frequently hear homeschoolers tell others they should be HSLDA members. I think that may be one reason for the strong reactions from those who aren't supporters. I think it does encourage a mob mentality that we need them to protect ourselves just in case. Our co-op bought insurance from them and pressured us to join so we would get a group discount or something of that nature. I have discovered that there is a huge conservative, christian base for homeschooling in our area. I do not homeschool because of religion. I have went to the HSLDA site and read the main articles listed on the home page. The site portrays them as heroes and one call to them and your troubles will go away should a truency officer come knocking or CPS. It really did seem to push a fear of getting in trouble for homeschooling if you will. I too live in a homeschool friendly state. If trouble should occur, I would want a local lawyer that I retain and pay a fee when I need help not a lawyer on hand that I pay a fee for no other reason than I am afraid that I will one day need to call them. I wouldn't pay a marriage counselor for years just in case my marriage should get in trouble in the future. I would pay a marriage counselor when I would need them. I see no reason to pay HSLDA when I am not in need of their services. How many that have paid HSLDA for years have ever needed their services or received anything other than emails from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 HSLDA does not discriminate against *any* religion or lack thereof. Sorry if you feel as if it does, but it is not so. It is a FACT that HSLDA has pressured statewide groups to adopt narrowly worded statements of faith that were specifically designed to exclude members of my denomination. The late Dr. Raymond Moore wrote a whole long article about it. HSLDA may not discriminate in whom they'll take money from, but their past actions have shown that their leaders definitely do practice religious discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I did join them here in Canada. I never heard back from them. What he told me BEFORE I sent in my fees changed completely. Went from yes, he could definitely be able to do something about it to nope, can't do anything, I'll do some research though...and I never heard back. Left msgs, etc, but nothing was ever responded to. Was this the newer guy, Paul Faris? I've met him and talked with him, and he seems really gung ho about giving us support in the things that HSLDA gives support in. I'd be really puzzled if he was the one not communicating with you, because he was so pro-parent-as-decision-maker. Meanwhile, sign this form where we tell you how to educate your child." Where is this? I signed up for the Canadian HSLDA and I've never seen this. I think I saw a blurb about where you could get support brochures if just getting started homeschooling and you wanted help, but I've never had them tell me how to educate my kids. I joined the Canadian HSLDA but let my membership lapse because I thought they strayed way too far from homeschooling issues. Can you explain further? We signed up for Canadian HSLDA for the "just in case" factor, but the e-mails and publications we get from them mostly do seem to have to do with homeschooling. I'm puzzled about the Canadian responses here...(fellow Canucks, not trying to knock any of you - just trying to understand your experiences here with Canada's HSLDA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Where is this? I signed up for the Canadian HSLDA and I've never seen this. I think I saw a blurb about where you could get support brochures if just getting started homeschooling and you wanted help, but I've never had them tell me how to educate my kids. It's on your membership form under, "By typing your name as a digital signature on this application, we agree:" 1. To exercise diligence in teaching your children in a responsible way. 2. To use an organized curriculum and a clearly recognizable program of education to instruct our children. 3. To keep records of each child's educational progress When you signed your membership you agreed to follow this model of homeschooling. No venturing into unschooling if you feel the need to. Possibly no making up your own curriculum from library and community resources depending on how the HSLDA chooses to define it's terms when you ask for help and they consider whether they'll take your case. The language they use sounds admirable (who wants to teach in an irresponsible way after all?) but it does lay out the terms of how you must educate your kids if you expect them to represent you. I do know there are justifications for they're choice to define what you need to do in terms of homeschooling but that's beside the point. If you join, you must follow their terms. Which makes me wonder how they claim to represent all homeschoolers when an important group, unschoolers, is immediately excluded. And it makes me worry when I think that, considering unschoolers have no place in the HSLDA, the HSLDA pushes to shape legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Here is what the Supreme Court said in 2000 in the case of Troxel v. Granville: "Our jurisprudence historically has reflected Western civilization concepts of the family as a unit with broad parental authority over minor children. Our cases have consistently followed that course." Thus, you can see that parental rights are based on "western civilization concepts of the family." When those concepts are no longer the legal definition of the family in this nation, then the foundation upon which parental rights are based is completely removed. What has parental authority to do with what does or does not constitute a marriage? Plenty of homosexuals are getting married and having kids together. They are no less a set of parents than any other set of parents. In countries where marriage is not necessarily expected (for example, in Germany marriage is not the norm among the younger set, even when they have kids together) you still have parents. Therefore, the logic fails. They can try and justify it but the truth is, they are using the fear people have of someone taking legal action against homeschooling and using that extortion money to lobby for religious-based beliefs. I have a problem with that because I think it's dishonest, at best. That said, I think this is best saved for another thread OP didn't ask why some people supported HSLDA, the OP asked why some people didn't. In their statements regarding why they did not support HSLDA nobody mentioned gay marriage. There have been many political, non-homeschooling related issues that HSLDA has lobbied for/against. Therefore, the debate on gay marriage and why HSLDA may or may not support it does not belong in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 In their statements regarding why they did not support HSLDA nobody mentioned gay marriage. There have been many political, non-homeschooling related issues that HSLDA has lobbied for/against. Therefore, the debate on gay marriage and why HSLDA may or may not support it does not belong in this thread. {Timidly raising hand} Actually, I mentioned same-sex marriage as an example of an issue that HSLDA opposes that isn't remotely related to homeschooling (and hence a reason that I don't support HSLDA). But I agree that a debate about gay marriage--and perhaps even about HSLDA's stance on gay marriage--doesn't belong in this thread. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 {Timidly raising hand} Actually, I mentioned same-sex marriage as an example of an issue that HSLDA opposes that isn't remotely related to homeschooling (and hence a reason that I don't support HSLDA). But I agree that a debate about gay marriage--and perhaps even about HSLDA's stance on gay marriage--doesn't belong in this thread. :D Sorry, I had missed that in your post. :blush: Clearly, I was typing in a hurry. We just got home from church/lunch/bookstore and I'm taking eldest to a movie in a little while. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry, I had missed that in your post. :blush: Clearly, I was typing in a hurry. We just got home from church/lunch/bookstore and I'm taking eldest to a movie in a little while. Sorry. You know, I came this >< close to not mentioning it in my initial post, knowing the potential for a nasty thread derailing. But I was feeling daring today. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Calm down..... I think this sounds condescending. I also don't think that Dawn comes across as needing to calm down - she's just discussing, quite reasonably, IMO. 2. To use an organized curriculum and a clearly recognizable program of education to instruct our children. No venturing into unschooling if you feel the need to. Possibly no making up your own curriculum from library and community resources depending on how the HSLDA chooses to define it's terms when you ask for help and they consider whether they'll take your case. but it does lay out the terms of how you must educate your kids if you expect them to represent you. OK, this makes sense. I never thought of it that way. Interestingly, when Paul Faris was here a few years ago, he talked about wording your NS registration form (the part where you write what your plans are for the year) in a way that would provide flexibility. Meaning, for example, if you say you are using R&S math, and find that you need to change to MUS mid-way through the year, it *could* be a bone for the DOE to pick. So, he said something like "write that you are using a math program suitable for your child" which would give you flexibility - who says the program has to be a book? I took that to mean that you should do that in other areas, too - which, to me, would give unschoolers lots of leeway. I guess because of hearing him speak for two days, I think of him in particular, as the lawyer for HSLDA Canada, as being very flexible in working with and representing families. He did not talk about any need to have organized curriculum in order to be represented - I saw him as helping parents to be flexibly creative in how they present their plans to any officials. I guess, in part, it's because of that, we finally decided to join. Which makes me wonder how they claim to represent all homeschoolers when an important group, unschoolers, is immediately excluded. And it makes me worry when I think that, considering unschoolers have no place in the HSLDA, the HSLDA pushes to shape legislation. Have you read any copies of their (Canadian) quarterly publications in the past couple of years? When I read stories of actual families, I have a hard time trying to (hate to say it this way, LOL) "classify" them in my mind - specifics about their methods are vague - what I read is how their right to homeschool is upheld, regardless of methods. I knew one of the lawyers for HSLDA in the States way back before he was a lawyer - I knew his family when they were very young. And I know the religious background that shaped their early family life - it was a church full of homeschoolers, fighting hard for the right to educate their kids at home. I think that helped shape HSLDA in the States. I guess I just see HSLDA Canada as being slightly different, but that could be because of my impressions of Paul Faris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cindie2dds Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 As a homeschooler, they do not represent me. As a Christian, they do not represent me. Politically, they are far, far too much to the right for me. I do not appreciate the fear mongering tactics, either. Fortunately, I live in a very friendly homeschooling state. :iagree: I couldn't have said it better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) I live in NY. Do you know why NY has so many regulations? In large part BECAUSE of HSLDA. http://www.homeedmag.com/HEM/185/sotch.html I believe you. I was VERY unhappy with their personal agenda of the last two years. NM is slowly trying to tighten the reigns and HSLDA feels that we should acquiesce. Plenty of us called and complained to HSLDA about what the state is asking for on our registration forms, and we were told we need to "give a little." That HSLDA sees no problem with the state asking for information that they've never asked for before bothers me. This year, they decided to start charging a fee for setting up month to month. I let my membership lapse because I didn't have the $120 up front, and they called me. I told them I wasn't interested in re-joining because of what I just said, and the $20 they were going to charge me to switch to month to month. They waived it but weren't very nice or happy about it. I'm thinking about switching to Homeschool legal Advantage. They aren't a PAC and have no hidden agenda. I think that's probably where we'll go after the first of the year. Blessings! Dorinda Edited November 23, 2009 by coffeefreak unfinished sentence that made no sense tee hee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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