Spinoff Again: Was your home abusive?

[elizabeth]

 

http://www.childhelp.org/resources/learning-center/statistics Do you think that abuse stats might possibly have something to do with gender???? And that most of the people on this board are women?? Who do you think is sexually abused more often by gender distiction??

[pqr]

Would you be okay with it if someone did it to your kids? (whatever that behavior may be). . . That's a good way to figure out if it's abusive, or at the very least, wrong.

 

I really don't believe someone would lie and say they were abused. . .especially in an anonymous survey. It wouldn't make sense.

 

The question should be

 

"Would it be OK if they did it to THEIR kids or I to MINE". Your proposed question gets into parental rights and discipline. Whereas a parent may discipline many would argue that a stranger may not.

 

As to answers on an anonomous survey people make false statements all the time.

 

My point was also that there is now almost a need to be able, internally, to state that one was abused. It may be an example of the movement of the pendulum. There was a day when people would deny genuine abuse (to themselves), perhaps we are now at the point where some will claim it when not justified.

[inactive]

God heals and restores.

 

 

You know, I think sexual abuse is the hardest to overcome. I can't imagine how anyone overcomes it without therapy. Even with therapy, it can take years.

 

:iagree: My middle child was sexually abused at daycare...that was 10 years ago and we still deal with the consequences almost daily.

[momtoboys]

I guess I meant to say, someone could ask themselves, would it be okay if what happened to you, happened to your kids?

[Seeker]

All of the above.

 

What I thank my Lord for the most is that I did not have my own child until I was 40 years old. That I not only was guided in my healing process but determined not to continue the cycle of either the abuser or victim mentality. What I love the most--it is a bittersweet feeling that overwhelms when I think about it--is seeing my daughter flourish in the childhood I wish I could have had.

 

On the other hand--this may surprise you all--I would not change a thing about my childhood. I don't believe in looking back and wishing to change things, but in looking forward from where I am now. It was a challenge to heal from it all, absolutely, but I learned at times it is an amazing thing to forgive the unforgivable and to love the unlovable. I have learned that what I harbor against someone, even in secret, can hurt me far more anything they actually can do to me. Over the years, I have met many people, some with bad childhoods and some with good ones, some younger and some much older, who have never learned the ability to truly forgive. I feel far more sympathy for those who are stuck in states of hatred and unhappiness blaming other people for who and what they are rather than taking responsibility for themselves and forgiving others--it is like self-abuse, really.

[pqr]

I guess I meant to say, someone could ask themselves, would it be okay if what happened to you, happened to your kids?

 

Fairer question but that makes the assumption that because one's parenting style may be vastly different from their parents (even to the degree that they would never dream of raising children as they were raised) the default is that they were abused.

 

Some parents are vicerally against spanking, even though they were spanked as children. They may feel that spanking is never OK, but that does not mean that they were abused just that their parents used a different technique. If such parents claim abuse because of their opinions on spanking rather than because the spanking crossed the line into genuine abuse then your question gives a false assumption.

[kalanamak]

I don't know if this is a happy memory or not.

 

 

She ate the celery and gave the sweet bits, the apples and raisins, to me. It was lovely.

[momtoboys]

Sigh--I'm not getting my thoughts across right today. . .

 

How about this:

 

If you did this (whatever it is) to your own children, would you consider it to be abuse?

[pqr]

Sigh--I'm not getting my thoughts across right today. . .

 

How about this:

 

If you did this (whatever it is) to your own children, would you consider it to be abuse?

 

 

Absolutely.....but then again that is subjective.

[joannqn]

Interesting conversation. Most of my friends were abused in some way, not all, just most. Of course, it helps that most of my friends come from a support group for those growing up in alcoholic and/or dysfunctional homes. However, not all of my friends who were abused go to my meeting.

 

My husband also came from an abusive home. His father abandoned the family when he was 2. His stepfather was a raging, violent alcoholic who took it out on my husband. At 13, he left home on a cold, winter, northern Montana night with just the clothes on his back and a threadbare blanket (they were very poor). He hid under an overpass watching his stepfather driving around looking for him with a shotgun. He believes that he would be dead had his stepfather found him. He was bounced from foster home to foster home until the state forced him back with his neglectful mother after she finally left the bastard.

 

I know two homeschooling friends who grew up in abusive, alcoholic homes. With one of them, I can see the affects of that home life in her words and actions. I wish she'd come to my meetings with me. The recovery and learned boundaries would really help her.

 

Of course, there's the 30+ people I know through my support meetings and retreats who were undeniably abused. Their stories include being hit (not spanking), being called horrid names, being told they were worthless in many ways, being neglected, not being giving food on a regular basis for whatever reason, being sexually abused, etc.

 

PQR, I think that you are either very unusual that you know so few who were abused or that they just aren't telling you about it. Most people don't go around announcing it, even to close family or friends. Many people don't even know that what happened in their family was considered abnormal. I didn't tell anyone that I was having sex with an adult several times a week, every week, between the ages of 6 and 11, until I had a complete breakdown at 18. I didn't know my dad was an alcoholic until someone told me my dad's drinking wasn't normal. I thought drinking beer in the morning and not serving dad dinner until he finished his second beer (after drinking a couple of pitchers with friends before coming home) was what ever father did.

[Kari C in SC]

I had awesome parents and an amazing childhood. My dad was not one to hug and kiss, but I had absolutely no doubt that he loved us. My mom is my best friend. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

[inactive]

PQR, I think that you are either very unusual that you know so few who were abused or that they just aren't telling you about it. Most people don't go around announcing it, even to close family or friends. Many people don't even know that what happened in their family was considered abnormal.

 

:iagree: and I'm a little "disturbed" that pqr would suggest some are lying...

[Kelli in TN]

I am not going to make any friends with this post but.....

 

I simply do not believe the statistics.

 

There is no way that 42% of the members of this board were abused. I do not argue with some of the posts and what was described in them was abuse, but in today's world it is almost "chic" to claim some form of abuse. We, as a people, have bought into the victimisation complex to such a degree that we almost need to find some hurt that explains the difficulty we have in life.

 

The problem is that the pain suffered by those who truly were abused is lessened when everybody has a story of abuse. It cheapens the horror of genuine abuse and dilutes the sympathy we should have.

 

Of all the close friends that I have, of those in my family, to include cousins etc, of those in my wife's family to include cousins etc, amongst those with who I roomed for 4 years at college only one (two if I loosen the definition) was abused. Either I am the luckiest person in the world or those numbers are wrong.

 

To clarify I do not deny that abuse happens, and happens far far to frequently, but I can not accept 42% on this board.

 

A counterpoint, as I think about this, is that only those who were abused would have read the thread and thereby skewed the results, but I am not too sure on that one.

 

 

I have no problem believing it. I think my fractured and strange childhood, which led to my being a misfit in school because emotionally I was simply a mess, strengthened my decision to homeschool my kids. I am probably not the only one who is more protective, more watchful because of my past. It is certainly not the central reason for homeschooling, but I cannot say that things I went through did not contribute to making me the sort of mom who wants to keep her children very close to herself.

 

And I am quite sure that were I open enough to tell a couple of stories from my childhood I could have you cringing. Nothing chic about it. I'm not proud to be from such a difficult past and I am certainly not proud of what it cost my children to be born to one so damaged, but I am very proud to have risen above it all. I am an overcomer. I am victorious. I win.

[joannqn]

I'm not proud to be from such a difficult past and I am certainly not proud of what it cost my children to be born to one so damaged, but I am very proud to have risen above it all. I am an overcomer. I am victorious. I win.

 

:iagree:

 

Only I don't feel victorious or that I've won. Overall, I think my children will have positive memories of their childhoods, but I worry about my children having damaged parents constantly.

[Daisy]

I can't do this.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Daisy

[lionfamily1999]

I am not going to make any friends with this post but.....

 

I simply do not believe the statistics.

 

There is no way that 42% of the members of this board were abused. I do not argue with some of the posts and what was described in them was abuse, but in today's world it is almost "chic" to claim some form of abuse. We, as a people, have bought into the victimisation complex to such a degree that we almost need to find some hurt that explains the difficulty we have in life.

 

The problem is that the pain suffered by those who truly were abused is lessened when everybody has a story of abuse. It cheapens the horror of genuine abuse and dilutes the sympathy we should have.

 

Of all the close friends that I have, of those in my family, to include cousins etc, of those in my wife's family to include cousins etc, amongst those with who I roomed for 4 years at college only one (two if I loosen the definition) was abused. Either I am the luckiest person in the world or those numbers are wrong.

 

To clarify I do not deny that abuse happens, and happens far far to frequently, but I can not accept 42% on this board.

 

A counterpoint, as I think about this, is that only those who were abused would have read the thread and thereby skewed the results, but I am not too sure on that one.

For a long time I assumed that everyone was abused at some point in their life. Dh did the same thing. I mean, everyone I knew had been abused at some point. Not that everyone was in a household where that happened, for most of those that were sexually abused it was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The first time I can ever remember someone saying they'd never been abused, at all, I was totally shocked. I can remember thinking, what planet are you from?!?

 

I don't disagree with the stats on here. I would not be surprised to find out that LOTS of hsing parents were abused as kids. The overresponse, I'm going to be the greatest parent EVER, makes perfect sense, to me :p

 

It's funny, dh and I know a lot more people, now, that were never abused as kids. We want that for our kids! My goal is to have dcs that grow up one day and say... "Of all the close friends that I have, of those in my family, to include cousins etc, of those in my wife's family to include cousins etc, amongst those with who I roomed for 4 years at college only one (two if I loosen the definition) was abused." Of course, none would be better ;) , but I couldn't imagine only knowing one or two people who were abused.

Edited October 31, 2009 by lionfamily1999
oopsies

[Kelli in TN]

:iagree:

 

Only I don't feel victorious or that I've won. Overall, I think my children will have positive memories of their childhoods, but I worry about my children having damaged parents constantly.

 

I'm sorry. I see that your children are younger than mine. I was not victorious when I was where you are on the mothering path and my older children have some pretty bad memories of a very damaged mom. My younger kids have had the advantage in that regard. Healing can be slow. I will tell you that my older kids, all adults now, "get' it. They know I love them, they know that I was battling with my own memories and was not a screwball mom on purpose. Your kids will get it too, and they will be grateful that you chose to stop the cycle with their generation.

[Sputterduck]

I wasn't abused as a child. I was as an adult though by my exh. He was extremely violent. I left so that my child would not grow up in fear and so he would not grow up to be his father.

[katemary63]

My father was an alcoholic, used drugs, and cross dressed. He was verbally abusive to my mother. I witnessed him sitting on her trying to shove a rolled up magazine down her throat. Occasionally, there were mysterious head shaped dents in the walls. I listened to them scream late into the night. Most birthdays and Christmases and my graduation were ruined because of him. He spanked and spanked long and hard. At times, he used a belt. He'd leave hand or belt shaped welts on my legs and bottom. When I was grounded it was anywhere from a week to 3 months. I spent two consecutive summers in my room. Though I was in a gifted program and always got nearly all A's in school, he'd point out the one B or the comment on an A grade that said I wasn't performing to my potential. I was very good at drawing but he told me I wasn't drawing, just copying. I eventually gave up drawing altogether because I couldn't get his voice out of my head. Nothing I did was every good enough. He told me I was a slut once; I was 11 or 12 and being sexually abused by a neighbor so I believed him. He accused me of drug seeking when I was suffering migraines in high school. I left home one night after we got into a physical altercation that could have resulted in someone dying.

 

My mom used drugs as well. She was ok until I graduated. We got into a fight one day and she punched me in the face, telling me I had been a spoiled brat my whole life. She produced 4 canceled checks for school expenses to prove it. She was sleeping with my dad's friend and often needed me to call her boss to explain she was on her way, but late. The night of that physical altercation with my dad, she told me I deserved everything I got.

 

From the age of 6 to 11, I was being sexually abused by a neighbor. He babysat me every Tuesday and Thursday while my parents bowled and any other time they need a babysitter. He babysat for "free". He ruled the rest of my life too. We often had s*x before he walked me to elementary school, every time he babysat, and other various times throughout the week. He made me bring other neighborhood girls to him to abuse, and take photos of them together (no faces). Somewhere out there, there are photos of my body under his as well.

 

I suffered severe depression and rage for a LONG time. I nearly killed myself to save my kids from me. I also nearly lost my kids to CPS; my counselor almost called but decided that I was moving in the right direction. I'm thankful she didn't call because I was getting better. My husband almost divorced me due to the depression and rage also. I finally got past it about 4 years ago with the help of antidepressants and a 12 step group called Adult Children Anonymous. I've been off meds for a couple of years now. I still go to meetings every Monday night and retreats twice a year. Some of the members are my best friends.

 

 

I don't even know what to say except that I am sorry for the pain you have suffered. So much pain.....:grouphug: I'm so glad you are on the road to recovery. God Bless you.

[pqr]

Interesting conversation. Most of my friends were abused in some way, not all, just most. Of course, it helps that most of my friends come from a support group for those growing up in alcoholic and/or dysfunctional homes. However, not all of my friends who were abused go to my meeting.

 

........

 

 

PQR, I think that you are either very unusual that you know so few who were abused or that they just aren't telling you about it. Most people don't go around announcing it, even to close family or friends. Many people don't even know that what happened in their family was considered abnormal. .

 

 

I suppose that I am a very lucky individual.

 

As to people "talking about it" I would opine that it may be reasonable to expect that if your family and friends would talk to you about it then mine might do the same had it happened. The fact is that it did not happen with my family and friends.

 

The point you made about people not knowing that what happened in their family was considered abnormal actually makes my point. In today's environment many have deemed non-abusive bahavior to be abusive. I suppose it is the 11% who speak of emotional or verbal abuse. (yes it does happen, but I also think that there are many cases where, quite honestly, in hindsight things look worse. many loving and good parents can be screamers and they are not necessarily abusers)

 

Texas T put it best when she stated

 

"I guess from some of the completely messed-up ideas of what abuse actually is, some would say yes. I was spanked a few times, on the bottom...twice with a belt <gasp>, but no, I wasn't abused."

 

In a similar manner getting chewed out by a parent is not abuse. Getting told to buck up, getting told that one's behavior was stupid (note not that one was stupid but that one's behavior was stupid) is not abuse. The poster who spanked with a plastic spoon is not an abuser, but I suspect that some would advocate her children listing themselves in the ranks of the abused.

 

Abuse happens, but given my experience and reading some recent threads it would seem that in SOME cases it is over-reported.

 

 

By the way what happened to you was the worst kind of abuse and you have my deepest sympathy.

Edited October 31, 2009 by pqr

[Joanne]

Note: The Subject line asks if my HOME was abusive.

 

The poll asks if I was abused as a child.

 

I voted no, my home was not abusive.

 

I WAS abused as a child.

[Joanne]

The point you made about people not knowing that what happened in their family was considered abnormal actually makes my point. In today's environment many have deemed non-abusive bahavior to be abusive. I suppose it is the 11% who speak of emotional or verbal abuse. (yes it does happen, but I also think that there are many cases where, quite honestly, in hindsight things look worse. many loving and good parents can be screamers and they are not necessarily abusers)

 

.

 

My experience, personal and more widely scattered is the opposite. Not that people look back and make things worse but that people don't know in real time that they are being abused.

 

Our culture allows for, encourages, sanctions and even cultivates a sick amount of abuse in human interaction.

[pqr]

that people don't know in real time that they are being abused.

 

Our culture allows for, encourages, sanctions and even cultivates a sick amount of abuse in human interaction.

 

 

That is because sometimes they are not. The vast majority of people who grew up in the 40s and 50s were spanked. Belts and the switch were common. It was a norm for the day and was not abuse. Today people would call it abuse and judge it but the mores of some in contemporary society.

 

Yes our culture cultivates sick abuse but it also cultivates a sense of victimization. How many movie stars now make an admission on some talk show that they were abused? I hate to say it, but it has become almost the in thing, just as having a personal psychiatrist or a dog that lives in your purse.

 

It is also a nice way to shift blame for personal failures.

 

The worst part of it is that it denigrates the seriousness of the crime perpetrated against those who were truly abused.

[joannqn]

That is because sometimes they are not. The vast majority of people who grew up in the 40s and 50s were spanked. Belts and the switch were common. It was a norm for the day and was not abuse. Today people would call it abuse and judge it but the mores of some in contemporary society.

 

Yes our culture cultivates sick abuse but it also cultivates a sense of victimization. How many movie stars now make an admission on some talk show that they were abused? I hate to say it, but it has become almost the in thing, just as having a personal psychiatrist or a dog that lives in your purse.

 

It is also a nice way to shift blame for personal failures.

 

The worst part of it is that it denigrates the seriousness of the crime perpetrated against those who were truly abused.

 

I think I understand what you are saying, though I think you are taking it too far the other way, as well. I do agree that this society does cultivate a sense of victimization. That's one reason I like how ACA looks at abusive childhoods.

 

From "The Solution" (one of our readings...emphasis mine):

 

The Solution is to become your own loving parent. As ACA becomes a safe place for you, you will find the freedom to express all the hurts and fears you have kept inside and to free yourself from the shame and blame that are carryovers from the past. You will become an adult who is imprisoned no longer by childhood reactions. You will recover the child within you, learning to accept and love yourself.

 

 

The healing begins when we risk moving out of isolation. Feelings and buried memories will return. By gradually releasing the burden of unexpressed grief, we slowly move out of the past. We learn to re-parent ourselves with gentleness, humor, love and respect.

 

 

This process allows us to see our biological parents as the instruments of our existence. Our actual parent is a Higher Power whom some of us choose to call God. Although we had alcoholic/dysfunctional parents, our Higher Power gave us the 12 Steps of Recovery.

 

 

This is the action and work that heals us: we use the Steps; we use the meetings; we use the telephone. We share our experience, strength and hope with each other. We learn to restructure our sick thinking one day at a time. When we release our parents from responsibility for our actions today, we become free to make healthy decisions as actors, not reactors. We progress from hurting to healing to helping. We awaken to a sense of wholeness we never knew was possible.

 

 

By attending these meetings on a regular basis, you will come to see the dysfunctional family experience for what it is: an experience that infected you as a child and continues to affect you as an adult. You will learn to keep the focus on yourself in the here and now. You will take responsibility for your own life and supply your own parenting.

 

 

You will not do this alone. Look around you and you will see others who know how you feel. We will love and encourage you no matter what. We ask you to accept us just as we accept you.

 

This is a spiritual program based on action coming from love. We are sure that as the love grows inside you, you will see beautiful changes in all your relationships, especially with God, yourself and your parents.

 

 

As you can see, we see that our childhoods continue to affect who we are and how to react to life, yet it is our responsibility to work towards changing our actions today. This reading is one of the most healing things for me. I have the ability to overcome this; I don't have to continue being a victim.

[Joanne]

That is because sometimes they are not. The vast majority of people who grew up in the 40s and 50s were spanked. Belts and the switch were common. It was a norm for the day and was not abuse. Today people would call it abuse and judge it but the mores of some in contemporary society.

 

Yes our culture cultivates sick abuse but it also cultivates a sense of victimization. How many movie stars now make an admission on some talk show that they were abused? I hate to say it, but it has become almost the in thing, just as having a personal psychiatrist or a dog that lives in your purse.

 

It is also a nice way to shift blame for personal failures.

 

The worst part of it is that it denigrates the seriousness of the crime perpetrated against those who were truly abused.

 

 

No one in this thread is asserting spanking is abuse or that is the kind of abuse they are "claiming".

 

I would, however, say that hitting a child with a belt is indeed, abusive, and it was a commonly culturally sanctioned abuse. So much so that generations have excused it.

 

The "movie star" admission you reference is a red herring to the arguement.

 

No one in this thread (and very few I've met with or counseled in terms of parenting) have played the victim card.

 

Indeed, THIS thread indicates much strength, growth and forward, healthy movement in spite of challenges.

 

I'm not one of those claiming to have been abused in my home; but on behalf of them, I'd like to say "How Dare You".

[LauraGB]

Indeed, THIS thread indicates much strength, growth and forward, healthy movement in spite of challenges.

 

I'm not one of those claiming to have been abused in my home; but on behalf of them, I'd like to say "How Dare You".

 

I tried to stay out of this thread, but I just have to say I couldn't agree with you more, Joanne. The strength of character it takes to share these stories is astounding. A lot of people go through thier entire lives without uttering a single solitary word for fear they will not be taken seriously or believed at all. And that is an absolute shame.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to each one of you. You are truly amazing people.

Edited October 31, 2009 by LauraGB

[pqr]

No one in this thread is asserting spanking is abuse or that is the kind of abuse they are "claiming".

 

I would, however, say that hitting a child with a belt is indeed, abusive, and it was a commonly culturally sanctioned abuse. So much so that generations have excused it.

 

The "movie star" admission you reference is a red herring to the arguement.

 

No one in this thread (and very few I've met with or counseled in terms of parenting) have played the victim card.

 

Indeed, THIS thread indicates much strength, growth and forward, healthy movement in spite of challenges.

 

I'm not one of those claiming to have been abused in my home; but on behalf of them, I'd like to say "How Dare You".

 

How dare I what???? Disagree???

 

There have been numerous threads where posters have stated that spanking IS abuse so why would anyone assume that those posters would not claim abuse when they were spanked?

 

You just stated that any child who was spanked with a belt was abused. Therefore if you believe this, might others on the board not feel the same way? If they do, might they not have claimed abuse for something that really may not be?

 

How is the movie star reference a red herring? Do they not, in numbers, claim to be abused? Is it not the in thing for some? Do we not have a culture of victimization? Do we not hear that our failures are frequently to be blamed on someone else?

 

How do you know what this thread represents to the reader? To me it does represent strength and courage from some, but I still question the numbers even though those claiming abuse has now dropped to less than 40%.

 

Finally, if very few you have counseled have played the victim card that means that some have played the victim card.

Edited October 31, 2009 by pqr

[Joanne]

There have been numerous threads where posters have stated that spanking IS abuse so why would anyone assume that those posters would not claim abuse when they were spanked?

 

1) No one in this thread has said "I was spanked and it was the abuse I am speaking of". This thread details abuse; not spanking. That's my first justification of "how dare you".

 

You just stated that any child who was spanked with a belt was abused. Therefore if you believe this, might others on the board not feel the same way? If they do, might they not have claimed abuse for something that really may not be?

 

I do not believe hitting a child with a belt is "spanking". Further, I will not discuss it with you.

 

How is the movie star reference a red herring? Do they not, in numbers, claim to be abused? Is it not the in thing for some? Do we not have a culture of victimization? Do we not hear that our failures are frequently to be blamed on someone else?

 

The topic isn't the authenticity of the public and publicized claims of celebrities. Those public admissions have elements and a dynamic that skew the actual discussion in this thread = red herring.

 

How do you know what this thread represents to the reader? To me it does represent strength and courage from some, but I still question the numbers even though those claiming abuse has now dropped to less than 40%.

 

Finally, if very few you have counseled have played the victim card that means that some have played the victim card.

 

This kind of statement can, does and has served only to exacerbate the pain of people who have been abused and are doing the work to heal from it.

 

And, really, from a human standpoint, it's LOGIC that abused people would vote in more representation than non abused due to the subject line. I, for example, only participate in threads in which I have interest or experience.

 

The numbers might be high in comparison to the general population, but to question those who have voted and participated is not logically thinking through what those numbers represent.

 

Instead of realizing the numbers represent answering a specific poll on this board, you've questions the respondants in invalidating their intimately shared experiences = another HOW DARE YOU.

[Rebel]

No abuse whatsoever in my home, nor was I abused anywhere else. I admire the strength those who were abused have shown.

[pqr]

1) No one in this thread has said "I was spanked and it was the abuse I am speaking of". This thread details abuse; not spanking. That's my first justification of "how dare you".

 

So the fact that people who may have posted on this thread have made comments on other threads that indicate that spanking is abuse should not be taken into account? That is like ignoring a politician's voting record and simply voting based on his last speech.

 

 

 

I do not believe hitting a child with a belt is "spanking". Further, I will not discuss it with you.

 

Interesting method of trying to make your point

 

The topic isn't the authenticity of the public and publicized claims of celebrities. Those public admissions have elements and a dynamic that skew the actual discussion in this thread = red herring.

 

 

The topic has become one of the extent of abuse in society. When stars suddenly claim abuse it is relevent to the discussion.

 

This kind of statement can, does and has served only to exacerbate the pain of people who have been abused and are doing the work to heal from it.

 

And, really, from a human standpoint, it's LOGIC that abused people would vote in more representation than non abused due to the subject line. I, for example, only participate in threads in which I have interest or experience.

 

The numbers might be high in comparison to the general population, but to question those who have voted and participated is not logically thinking through what those numbers represent.

 

Instead of realizing the numbers represent answering a specific poll on this board, you've questions the respondants in invalidating their intimately shared experiences = another HOW DARE YOU.

 

If you look at my first post I did actually mention this.

 

As to the "how dare you" is it still because I disagree?

[mirth]

... then, I'm curious, where do you think the true numbers stand?

 

For years, I've heard the statistic that 33% of girls and 14% of boys are sexually violated before age 18.

 

If movie stars or you or I talk about it, good. (Perhaps it will bring more attention or funding to the issue.) I'd rather hear about that than hear them discuss their political or dopey environmentalism views.

[LauraGB]

Wow. This thread clearly asks "Was Your Home Abusive." Aren't there enough other abuse threads going on now to debate the actual issue of what is/what is not abuse in rather than this one? I would like to suggest leaving this thread to those to whom sharing thier story is therapeutic.

[MamaT]

As to the "how dare you" is it still because I disagree?

 

I think the feeling of "how dare you" comes from those of us who were abused having someone negate what we went through as children. Do you think any of us wanted to be abused or to grow up with abusive parents? I would love to claim a happy childhood with attentive loving parents, and will do everything in my power to make sure my kids can do just that.

 

I am one who understands that in the past spanking with a belt was the norm and I would not call that in itself abusive for back then. That is not what I was referring to in MY post at all. I know that I was abused, that my mother had mental issues (she is on meds now), and I cannot imagine someone claiming abuse who wasn't.

[pqr]

... then, I'm curious, where do you think the true numbers stand?

 

For years, I've heard the statistic that 33% of girls and 14% of boys are sexually violated before age 18.

 

If movie stars or you or I talk about it, good. (Perhaps it will bring more attention or funding to the issue.) I'd rather hear about that than hear them discuss their political or dopey environmentalism views.

 

I do not know where it stands, my issue is that I very much doubt that it approaches 40%

 

We fully agree that genuine abuse should be brought out and if I believed much that stars had to say I would want them to speak about it, but with the likes of Polanski, Jackson et al it seems that many may fall more on the side of the perpetrators. As to their political and environmental views we again agree.

 

I had not seen the stats on sexual violation but would be interested in the definitions they use as I am almost certain that more than 14% of boys are sexually active before 18 so are we talking about them having been raped?

[newbie]

I dont think any victim wants to jump on any victim train. Many of us are still trying to heal and still to this day have abusive parents we are dealing w/.

 

Of course the stats are high, I am surprised they are not higher, case in point, that people dont want to focus on the negative sometimes and be involved in a stat. That is understandable.

 

Boy, I didnt deal w/any abuse til I was 26. Sometimes it can hit us in the face a lot later .

 

Victims dont know they are victims til they are away from the abuser.

 

My point is I dont think the numbers are inflated, it makes no sense to cry wolf in this case. Especially an anonymous poll. What benefit are they getting. None.

[pqr]

I think the feeling of "how dare you" comes from those of us who were abused having someone negate what we went through as children. Do you think any of us wanted to be abused or to grow up with abusive parents? I would love to claim a happy childhood with attentive loving parents, and will do everything in my power to make sure my kids can do just that.

 

I am one who understands that in the past spanking with a belt was the norm and I would not call that in itself abusive for back then. That is not what I was referring to in MY post at all. I know that I was abused, that my mother had mental issues (she is on meds now), and I cannot imagine someone claiming abuse who wasn't.

 

If I, by my coments, caused pain I am sorry. As I stated those who genuinely suffered abuse need support and have suffered terribly. I questioned numbers nothing more. I stated that they seemed high and that if inflated they denigrate the suffering of those who have suffered.

 

Unfortunately people do claim abuse when they did not suffer it, even Joanne mentioned it.

 

Anyway it is late in Europe.

 

All the Best and Good Night.

[Peela]

No abuse here, until my parents divorced when I was in my teens, and my mother got with an alcoholic man who was generally ok but would become verbally abusive when I became moody and difficult and he was drunk.I used to stand up to him, particularly when my mother wouldnt, and I copped a fair bit because of it.

The situation was bad enough that I left home at 16, however I dont think of myself as coming from an abusive background until I was 15 or so and I left home at 16, so my younger years were not abusive at all.

[mirth]

I had not seen the stats on sexual violation but would be interested in the definitions they use as I am almost certain that more than 14% of boys are sexually active before 18 so are we talking about them having been raped?

 

In a 10 second search, I came up with:

 

"The statistics say that one out of every three to four girls has been sexually assaulted by the age of 18. One boy out of every six will be abused by the age of 18. Although we have some reports and convictions to base these statistics on, they are actually not accurate. So many cases of child molestation go unreported each year, so we really cannot estimate the real numbers. The FBI reports that the National Institute for Mental Health found that only 1% to 10% of victims ever tell that they were abused. Boys report far less than girls."

 

(From http://childsafetips.abouttips.com/child-molestation-statistics.php)

 

I don't ever want split hairs with anyone on what sexual molestation means. My take-home message from my 10 sec education tells me the bigger problem is that it is underreported.

Edited October 31, 2009 by mirth

[pqr]

In a 10 second search, I came up with:

 

"The statistics say that one out of every three to four girls has been sexually assaulted by the age of 18. One boy out of every six will be abused by the age of 18. Although we have some reports and convictions to base these statistics on, they are actually not accurate. So many cases of child molestation go unreported each year, so we really cannot estimate the real numbers. The FBI reports that the National Institute for Mental Health found that only 1% to 10% of victims ever tell that they were abused. Boys report far less than girls."

 

(From http://childsafetips.abouttips.com/child-molestation-statistics.php)

 

I don't ever want split hairs with anyone on what sexual molestation means. My take-home message from my 10 sec education tells me the bigger problem is that it is underreported.

 

That site I have seen, but the quoted para really tells us nothing. What is of far more interest is the estimated number of assaults of each perpetrator.

 

 

However, if a perpetrator attacks 150 boys that means that he is going outside the home which was not the topic of the thread.

 

 

Now I am going to bed. Good Night.

[OnTheBrink]

I've not had a great day today, and it's revolved around my mother and her behavior towards me. But, there is no way I'm going to list all the abuses she inflicted on me to convince anyone. I would never assume that someone's abuse wasn't abuse, if they felt it was. I think most people would know the difference between a childhood of abuse vs a parent's one-time or infrequent mistake in parenting. And, anyone who'd post they were abused when they weren't is sick.

[mom2jjka]

No, I had a very loving, very sheltered, very blessed childhood.

[unsinkable]

Whiskey Tango -oxtrot?

 

Who cares if someone thinks the stats are inflated?!?!

 

It is not about the numbers, to me. It is the stories.

 

One of my df's in high school had a father that locked his wife and daughters out of the house in their underwear to punish them. What category is that, for crying out loud? It doesn't matter!!!

[littlebug42]

I had a childhood that I don't really consider abusive to me personally but was emotionally traumatizing. My father was an alcoholic and he beat my mother - A LOT! My parents divorced when I was four but all I remember of their marriage is huddling in my room with my older sister while my older brother, who was all of 10 or 11, tried to keep my Dad off of my Mom. I also remember a Christmas Eve he was visiting after the divorce where he pulled a gun on my Mom. My brother saved her that night but hitting Dad with an iron skillet. After he was gone, he pretty much ignored me the rest of my childhood unless I initiated contact. Things at home were much better though after he moved out of state. It was like a haze lifted.

[Joy at Home]

So the fact that people who may have posted on this thread have made comments on other threads that indicate that spanking is abuse should not be taken into account? That is like ignoring a politician's voting record and simply voting based on his last speech.

 

 

I don't believe spanking done in a loving and deliberate fashion is abuse, never have. However, when I said in my post that spanking crosses a line for me, I mean that because of the physical abuse I received throughout my childhood (I was never "spanked", only beaten with objects, fists, irons, you name it), any means of discipline that would have me physically cause harm to my children rekindles feelings of helplessness and fear I received as a child. It in no way judges other parents who do spank, but is not the way I choose to parent because of my past.

 

Also, back to your point, maybe some people who as most vocal against spanking were themselves victims of abuse. Sometimes victims of true abuse see all kinds of physical discipline against children as abusive.

 

Blessings,

Lisa

[babysparkler]

All of the above.

 

What I thank my Lord for the most is that I did not have my own child until I was 40 years old. That I not only was guided in my healing process but determined not to continue the cycle of either the abuser or victim mentality. What I love the most--it is a bittersweet feeling that overwhelms when I think about it--is seeing my daughter flourish in the childhood I wish I could have had.

 

On the other hand--this may surprise you all--I would not change a thing about my childhood. I don't believe in looking back and wishing to change things, but in looking forward from where I am now. It was a challenge to heal from it all, absolutely, but I learned at times it is an amazing thing to forgive the unforgivable and to love the unlovable. I have learned that what I harbor against someone, even in secret, can hurt me far more anything they actually can do to me. Over the years, I have met many people, some with bad childhoods and some with good ones, some younger and some much older, who have never learned the ability to truly forgive. I feel far more sympathy for those who are stuck in states of hatred and unhappiness blaming other people for who and what they are rather than taking responsibility for themselves and forgiving others--it is like self-abuse, really.

 

I understand completely what you mean... though I still "wish" it could have been different for me, I am grateful for the person I have become through my experiences and pain. I would not be the person I am today, and I would not have as much an understanding of loving my enemies & true forgiveness as I have today because of it.

 

Thanks for mentioning this!

[momtoboys]

Honestly, I didn't start this thread to argue about what is/is not abuse. I thought I had been fairly clear on the first post about what I meant by abuse.

 

I honestly was curious as to statistically what the percentages were, although I realize this is not a scientific poll.

[Renee in NC]

I am one who understands that in the past spanking with a belt was the norm and I would not call that in itself abusive for back then. That is not what I was referring to in MY post at all. I know that I was abused, that my mother had mental issues (she is on meds now), and I cannot imagine someone claiming abuse who wasn't.

 

I want to say that I agree with this - I do not claim abuse since a belt was used. I claim abuse because I was beaten with a belt almost everyday for everything and sometimes nothing. I was screamed at, held to impossible standards that I could never keep, and treated with disdain a great deal of the time. Spanking with a belt is not always abuse, even today. But welts on top of welts and bruises on top of bruises for most of my childhood was. It was so bad that I ran away several times before the age of 10 trying to get away from her.

 

One time was forced to write "I will not lie to xxxxx" 2000 times (literally) because I had lied about whether I had done something or not. I lied because I was scared to death to admit the truth (and it wasn't a big deal - I had sprayed some perfume around the bedroom.) I was 9 years old.

 

Thankfully, somewhere down the line this stopped with her. She did not abuse my brother at all. She started being abusive with her daughter, but at some point quit hitting her. I am so glad for her! I know that my ex-stepmother had a HORRIBLE childhood even worse than mine, so I am glad she found peace and was able to break the cycle of abuse, even if it was after I was grown.

[kalanamak]

My father was an alcoholic, used drugs, and cross dressed. He was verbally abusive to my mother. I witnessed him sitting on her trying to shove a rolled up magazine down her throat. .

 

Well, having met you a couple times, I'd have never guessed. You look so calm, unflapped, and mellow. And the way your daughter gave that cute shrug when she forgot the diaper bag. That is a girl who knows its okay to make a mistake.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

That is a girl who knows its okay to make a mistake.

That is exactly where I struggle in my parenting. :( I think I need to copy this post as a reminder.

[GWOB]

I voted in this poll when it first came out, but am finally comfortable "coming out" with my abuse. I was all but sexually abused. My parents beat the ever-loving crap out of me. Not just spanking, but 250lb woman sitting on top of me wailing on my head with whatever was closest abuse. I was either hit, slapped, pushed, or otherwise physically abused every stinking day. My parents had CPS called on them when I showed up to school with a busted lip and bruised ribs. My dad fended off the Social Worker by threatening her with his gun. She never came back for me:glare:. I made up every excuse known to man for my black eyes, busted lips, and bruises all over my body. I was left alone at age barely 11 all summer to take care of a six month old. Every stinking summer since I was 11 I was conveniently grounded so my parents would not have to pay for childcare. I raised my two younger sisters. I cooked, cleaned, washed clothes, bathed, and cares for my sisters from the time my little sis was born when I was 10 1/2 until I left for the Navy 4 days after I graduated high school. My parents used me as a pawn in their sick, childish fights. I was the go-between. "Go tell your father I am leaving him." "Go tell your mother she is a stupid slut and I hate her." I was the parent in that relationship. My parents have called me every name under the sun. B@^ch, slut, crazy, and their favorite, stupid. I guess a 147 IQ means nothing to them. They have continuously insulted my husband (who BTW is the best thing that has ever happened to me and at least 100 times the man my father could ever hope to be) and even my children. I have been completely ignored by them. In fact, this year my 16 year old sister got a new car for MY birthday. I didn't even get a card. So yes, my home was and still is abusive.

 

And to Mr. PQR who thinks we are making this stuff up, I would say crawl back under the rock from which you came. I deal with this crap on a daily basis.. Don't judge me because my parents were mentally ill and refused treatment. Get over yourself.