Health professionals asking about discipline

[Guest 4boys]

I deeply regret posting this. I should have known where this would lead and it was a big mistake on my part to think otherwise. My apologies.

Edited October 29, 2009 by 4boys

[johnandtinagilbert]

I don't find her line of questioning appropriate at all. I NEVER answer questions I don't find pertinent. If they ask, I say, "Why is that pertinent?" If they don't give me an answer to my liking, I keep vague. I encourage you to make sure you speak with the regular nurse and if she says the ?? were out of line, contact a supervisor. I also encourage you never to answer those questions again unless there is a cps person and an attorney present. You cannot trust people in this day and age. You really can't.

[thowell]

I agree that is odd. I mean it's not like if someone beat their kids they would just say yes I abuse my Kids. Maybe she was asking because your kids were so well behaved as that is not always the norm these days. Just FYI my mom told me along time ago when someone ask you a question you dont want to answer look at them and say "Why do yoy ask?" It works like a charm.

[Audrey]

This is really bothering me and I thought I would see what your experience has been regarding this.

 

Do the health professionals you see with your children ever ask you how you discipline your children?

 

I had a vaccination appointment this morning for my youngest son with a public health nurse at the local hospital. It was not the nurse I usually see because my regular nurse was busy. If it had been the regular one, this would not be an issue because I know her so well.

 

She began to ask me how I discipline. I thought it was an odd question so I answered very vaguely saying "A little of everything," which, by the way, is the truth. Then she outright asked, "Physical?" What can I do, I'm not going to lie. So mustering as much confidence and care-free attitude as possible, I said yes. She continued, "Just with the hand?"

 

At this point I should have had the presence of mind to ask why it was any of her business. But I continued my good-natured answers and said no. When she asked what we used, I told her the truth; a plastic spoon. She gave me a funny look so I explained that we believe when used properly, it is very effective...I'm not sure what else I said. Something to that effect though.

 

This makes me very very nervous. What business of hers is it how I discipline my children? I had all my boys with me in that tiny little office and I must say, they were all quiet and calm, answered her questions confidently and directly, obeyed her instructions the first time and my 3yo cleaned up all the little toys he was playing with without being asked. Clearly, it should have been obvious that my kids don't have issues because of our disciplinary choices.

 

This is really disturbing me. When I got home I left a message with my regular nurse and I am going to ask her if this was appropriate or not and what I should do about it, or what she could do about it for me.

 

Sorry this is so long. Really, it shouldn't be any of their business unless there are obvious issues with my kids, right? :001_huh:

 

 

You may want to check and see if spanking is illegal in your state. You may have just stepped in it.

[LauraGB]

If it was out of the blue, for no reason, then, yeah, its out of line and rather than answering her questions, you should have either questioned her line of questioning or told her politely to focus on what you are paying her to do.

 

But, if she saw something that made her question safety, then not necessarily. My own kids have tumbled and were left with questionable looking marks (at least I thought so, eventhough we don't spank) that made me feel self concious about taking them out in public, lol. Maybe one of yours had something similar?

[SheWillFly]

Is spanking legal in Canada? I know there was some legistlation about it but I don't know the outcome.

 

When we were on public assistance the nurses would ask vague questions about my parenting skills. I knew the nurse, she was the mom of a friend of mine and a professor at my university. Anyway, she explained that part of her asking is so she can provide resources for parents who need them. She was also a mandatory reporter in our state for different child protection violations.

[JoyfulMama]

(Taking a deep breath.)

This is a touchy area - many parents see issues of the home as just that. However, this office also has a duty to provide health education and safety resources to the public, as a public health office/public hospital, and even a doctor's office. This duty has been seen more important in recent years, and therefore, it can now be standard policy for a parent to be asked about many things during a routine well or sick visit. Each encounter is viewed as an opportunity to assess the home/family and therefore is a potential teaching moment.

These questions aren't meant to offend, they are meant as a means to support. Often times, though, the individuals offering "support" aren't very well versed in how that should look.

[Joanne]

I had a vaccination appointment this morning for my youngest son with a public health nurse at the local hospital. It was not the nurse I usually see because my regular nurse was busy. If it had been the regular one, this would not be an issue because I know her so well.

 

She began to ask me how I discipline. I thought it was an odd question so I answered very vaguely saying "A little of everything," which, by the way, is the truth. Then she outright asked, "Physical?" What can I do, I'm not going to lie. So mustering as much confidence and care-free attitude as possible, I said yes. She continued, "Just with the hand?"

 

At the first question: I am here for medical, not parenting or discipline advice. I will not volunteer intimate family information to a strange medical profession. This is the end of the coversation.

 

And I never use physical discipline, so my perspective is not fueled by that.

[Guest 4boys]

Thank you. I am so totally kicking myself now that I didn't have the mind to ask her why she needed to ask those types of questions. I don't do well when put on the spot, I am not a quick thinker. I so regret that now. If there was an obvious issue with my children such as bruises or they seemed afraid of me or whatnot, I could understand. But the condescending tone and odd looks she gave me just made me feel humiliated, rather than supported if she were asking out of concern. I have left a message with my regular nurse and if these types of questions are not routine (which I don't think they are, I have been going to this public health office for 7 years and have never been asked before), then I will try to file some kind of complaint.

 

As for spanking laws, I don't think it's illegal in Canada. I know there have been various legislations and things in Parliament about it but as far as I know, it's never actually been outlawed. You would think we would know about it if it were.

 

Man, I am just so sorry I didn't think about it before I answered her questions. :(

[elizabeth]

This is a safety issue and not about your comfort etc it is the duty of a professional to be certain that those who are vulnerable are protected from abuse. You cannot imagine what I have read and seen in CPS reports that passed for "discipline." A lack of response can also mean that the person is abusing and justifying in the name of discipline or training. Sorry but I definitely think the right of a child to be safe and protected trumps parental rights to privacy every . single. time.Furthermore medical professionals are often the first line of defense for the vulnerable child or adult. Those questions can save lives. I wish desperately someone would have asked those questions of some of the "parents" of our clients before they end up on disability with PTSD from being whipped with lamp cords on their little legs. for taking a cookie that was not permitted or breaking a VCR. These are normal things that really are everyday occurences we mostly deal and move on . Some people cannot do that . They are not that rare. Unfortunately many of them procreate . Too many here really have no idea what monsters some people can be. I attribute this to fundamental decency of the members on the board but am truly surprised at the bristling assertion of parental rights and privacy over the safety of our most vulnerable population. I know some will assert that no parent will admit to beating their children or using archaic methods of discipline that went out in the mid 20th century when children were no longer property like an mule. These medical professionals are trained to spot the falsehoods, excuses, stumbling , stuttering , stammering and deep swallows before answering, the whole gamut of body language that tells them something is not quite right. It is well within the expected area of expertise that these inquiries are made as nothing is more injurious to a child's health and well being than abuse . Jaded ? You bet. This is what I do for a living and I see this every . ****. day.

[Laura Corin]

At this point I should have had the presence of mind to ask why it was any of her business. But I continued my good-natured answers and said no. When she asked what we used, I told her the truth; a plastic spoon.

 

Hitting a child with an implement is usually illegal here:

 

What the law says about hitting children

 

In the UK it is an offence for one person to assault another. However, when it comes to children, parents may claim a defence of "reasonable chastisement" if they smack or assault their child. This defence is not open to parents in many European countries, where hitting children is against the law. In the UK, a parent could be prosecuted for assaulting a child if the hitting went beyond "reasonable chastisement".

 

What is "reasonable chastisement"?

 

The law does not define "reasonable chastisement" clearly - it depends on the circumstances. Physical punishment is unlikely to be seen as "reasonable" if it leaves a mark on the child or if the child is hit with a cane, stick, belt or other implement.

 

ETA: does the nurse have a statutory duty to ask these questions?

 

Laura

Edited October 28, 2009 by Laura Corin

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

As a nurse, we were required to screen for abuse for every patient that came to the hospital. I think it was the law in fact. There were specific questions we were required to ask such as do you feel safe at home, etc. from what I recall. Some of these assessments ideally would be done one on one as well.

 

Perhaps this nurse was performing a required abuse screening which I think is a good idea since unfortunately there has been many cases of abuse:(

[Gretchen in NJ]

I don't find her line of questioning appropriate at all. I NEVER answer questions I don't find pertinent. If they ask, I say, "Why is that pertinent?" If they don't give me an answer to my liking, I keep vague. I encourage you to make sure you speak with the regular nurse and if she says the ?? were out of line, contact a supervisor. I also encourage you never to answer those questions again unless there is a cps person and an attorney present. You cannot trust people in this day and age. You really can't.

:iagree: I would never have told her anything. If I spanked, I would have kept that to myself. You never know how people are going to react.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

Well, just to lighten it up a bit . . . watch Ghost Town with Ricky Gervaise and Greg Kinnear. Practice up a bit and you be ready next time.

 

It's on instant download at Netflix.

[Mommyof4ks]

I have never been asked that question. Of course we have had the same pedi/nurse for nearly 10 years, so that may be the reason. I agree it is none of their business. Do they really think someone is going to say that they beat their kids?

[Jen500]

Do they really think someone is going to say that they beat their kids?

 

Well, yes, some people will say they hit their kids with their hand or other objects, if they think there is nothing wrong this. Just look at the diversity on this board in discipline techniques.

[Dawn in OH]

Wow, I've never been asked that before. I would find it invasive also. I agree with WendyK, It seems unfair to subject a person to that line of questioning without any reason. I could even accept a small reason, but no reason?

 

I really don't think that anyone that abuses their children would admit it. It's those of us that DON'T that get all freaked out and nervous when we hear the question.

 

The one question I usually get is "Does Mom work outside the home?" Mom? Who the hell am I? I never understood why she phrases that question THAT way. Actually, I detested that particular nurse, so I was probably really sensitive to anything she said.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

As a nurse, we were required to screen for abuse for every patient that came to the hospital. I think it was the law in fact. There were specific questions we were required to ask such as do you feel safe at home, etc. from what I recall. Some of these assessments ideally would be done one on one as well.

 

Perhaps this nurse was performing a required abuse screening which I think is a good idea since unfortunately there has been many cases of abuse:(

:iagree: Sometimes the demeanor of the person being asked the question says more than the answers.

 

A nurse is not just there to administer an injection. A good nurse cares about the whole patient, which includes the family, the home environment, etc. A public health nurse's responsibility goes beyond that into the community and region.

[NorthwestMom]

My OB's nurse does a domestic violence screening every few years. It is just part of their routine care. I can see a discipline screening at a medical clinic in a similar light.

 

Not trying to be mean or confrontational, but you surely know that many people do consider hitting children with objects abusive. You should probably check and see what the laws are in your province.

[Tangerine]

I had all my boys with me in that tiny little office and I must say, they were all quiet and calm, answered her questions confidently and directly, obeyed her instructions the first time and my 3yo cleaned up all the little toys he was playing with without being asked. Clearly, it should have been obvious that my kids don't have issues because of our disciplinary choices.

 

Of course there are markers of abused children, but if it were that easy to tell in such a brief encounter, things would be much easier for social workers. I don't think it is "obvious" there is no abuse just because children are well behaved.

[kalanamak]

Really, if someone abuses their child they will admit it right then and there?

 

 

You would be surprised. It could also be a mother just begging for permission to tell what her hubby does to the kids.

 

I would have said "why do you ask?" I have met nutjobs in the medical community, including a *receptionist* who said my terrible cramps were psychological.

[Miss Sherry]

When my daughter got her ankle broken on the trampoline a nurse asked me about our relationship. My daughter was 13 at the time. The nurse was so friendly and casual about it that I didn't even feel uncomfortable answering her questions. But maybe I should have. I do think it was probably a rountine type of inquiry , looking back now, because some children are abused. Also, my youngest daughter is shy and for some people they may be thinking something like "That shy child must be getting pushed down into submission". Of course it is just part of her temperament. I'm not worried about her shyness. My oldest was shy when she was young and just gradually came out of it and is not shy at all now and very social. My dh was concerned about my oldest dd's shyness when she was young, but I told him she will be fine, don't worry because as she realizes how much she is loved and develops a sense of security she will just naturally come out of it in time. Sure enough she did. But we did give her little simple social things to do to get her to practice social skills.

O.K. sorry for the rambling.

 

Don't worry too much about the questioning. It was likely routine. But I would check on the spanking laws for your area, just so you know. :grouphug:

[Remudamom]

They can ask but you don't have to answer. I'd tell them if they were worried about us they'd better get a court order.

[stripe]

Really, if someone abuses their child they will admit it right then and there?

 

If they think it's fine, then they may even brag about it. If they do it but regret it after wards, maybe not.

 

The last time I was in a furniture store, the salesman went on a long rant about the permissiveness of American parents and how it's great to have bilingual kids because then one can threaten to beat them in the other language while in public if they don't behave and no one will know. It was really...odd.

 

Nowadays the medical community uses many opportunities to discuss various topics. Sometimes they strike people as inappropriate or out of place, such as when a relative of mine had a thorn in her arm yet was mostly talked to by the doctor and nurses about the importance of pap smears.

[LibraryLover]

double post

[LibraryLover]

 

 

no. When she asked what we used, I told her the truth; a plastic spoon. She gave me a funny look so I explained that we believe when used properly, it is very effective...I'm not sure what else I said. Something to that effect though.

 

 

:001_huh:

 

Seriously? You weren't just kidding? Why would you hit your child with a plastic spoon?

[gingersmom]

If I was a nurse and someone told me they hit their children with a spoon I would most definitely call child protective services and report them.

[fivetails]

The OP is in Manitoba, Canada, and the use of "reasonable" force in discipline appears to be legal in all Canadian provinces according to the Criminal Code of Canada, Section 43

 

Protection of Persons in Authority

 

Correction of child by force

43. Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 43.

 

 

 

 

Some further reading on Section 43 for anyone interested. (I've only glanced over this)

[Audrey]

This is really bothering me and I thought I would see what your experience has been regarding this.

 

Do the health professionals you see with your children ever ask you how you discipline your children?

 

I had a vaccination appointment this morning for my youngest son with a public health nurse at the local hospital. It was not the nurse I usually see because my regular nurse was busy. If it had been the regular one, this would not be an issue because I know her so well.

 

She began to ask me how I discipline. I thought it was an odd question so I answered very vaguely saying "A little of everything," which, by the way, is the truth. Then she outright asked, "Physical?" What can I do, I'm not going to lie. So mustering as much confidence and care-free attitude as possible, I said yes. She continued, "Just with the hand?"

 

At this point I should have had the presence of mind to ask why it was any of her business. But I continued my good-natured answers and said no. When she asked what we used, I told her the truth; a plastic spoon. She gave me a funny look so I explained that we believe when used properly, it is very effective...I'm not sure what else I said. Something to that effect though.

 

This makes me very very nervous. What business of hers is it how I discipline my children? I had all my boys with me in that tiny little office and I must say, they were all quiet and calm, answered her questions confidently and directly, obeyed her instructions the first time and my 3yo cleaned up all the little toys he was playing with without being asked. Clearly, it should have been obvious that my kids don't have issues because of our disciplinary choices.

 

This is really disturbing me. When I got home I left a message with my regular nurse and I am going to ask her if this was appropriate or not and what I should do about it, or what she could do about it for me.

 

Sorry this is so long. Really, it shouldn't be any of their business unless there are obvious issues with my kids, right? :001_huh:

 

 

Further to that... in MB "spanking a child long enough or hard enough to cause bruises, or spanking with anything other than an open hand, is a form of abuse."

 

So your spoon beating is a problem. btw... got this info from MB website here http://www2.immigratemanitoba.com/browse/settle/society/print,settle-law.html see section under children's rights.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Audrey
double pasted a quote.

[fivetails]

According to what I just looked up, parents (and others) have the right to use 'reasonable force' in correcting a child (Canadian Criminal Code, section 43, posted the link on pg3 in this thread)... although I don't know where they hang the definition of 'reasonable' ...

 

Personally, we don't use physical discipline, so this is pretty much the first time I've gone looking for the info.. maybe the provinces themselves can then set further regulations?

Edited October 28, 2009 by fivetails

[Audrey]

According to what I just looked up, parents (and others) have the right to use 'reasonable force' in correcting a child (Canadian Criminal Code, section 43, posted the link on pg3 in this thread)... although I don't know where they hang the definition of 'reasonable' ...

 

Personally, we don't use physical discipline, so this is pretty much the first time I've gone looking for the info.. maybe the provinces themselves can then set further regulations?

 

 

I've never looked it up before either. We are not spankers. But I remembered hearing some buzz about there being something in the criminal code before. I also work with immigrants (in a peripheral manner) and I know many who expressed surprise to hear they can't beat their kids with belts and other implements. Hence my link to immigration website -- I found it among some work references.

[bbsweetpea]

Did not read all the other posts because I can just imagine where this will go (hopefully not).

 

Our pediatrician has always asked us "parenting" questions. I understand she is trying to keep my children safe but I usually either A) tell her we are just there for her medical opinion or B) lie.

 

Now that my children are older I go with "A" more often than not. We get questions like ... Where does your child sleep? Do you ever allow them to sleep in the bed with you? Do you have locks on your toilet? etc etc. I decided to start going with A when our oldest was 18 months old. Our doctor asked if we had turned our car seat around to forward facing. I told her no that we had a Britax that she can sit in up to 33 lbs backwards (our oldest had just hit 20 lbs). The doctor acted like she had never heard of such a thing and asked me to write the brand and model down so that she could VERIFY it. :glare:

 

At that point I went with answer "A". If she don't like it we can go see one of the other Ped's in the area.

[angela in ohio]

Did not read all the other posts because I can just imagine where this will go (hopefully not).

 

 

We've been dancing all around it this past week here...

[Care]

In the above posted Section of the Criminal code:

 

The words “reasonable under the circumstances†in s. 43 mean that the force must be transitory and trifling, must not harm or degrade the child, and must not be based on the gravity of the wrongdoing. Reasonableness further implies that force may not be administered to teenagers, as it can induce aggressive or antisocial behaviour, may not involve objects such as rulers or belts, and may not be applied to the head. While corporal punishment itself is not reasonable in the school context, a majority of the Supreme Court concluded that teachers may use force to remove children from classrooms or secure compliance with instructions.

 

Admitting to hitting your kids with a spoon probably just called Children's Aid on your house.

[smrtmama]

This is a safety issue and not about your comfort etc it is the duty of a professional to be certain that those who are vulnerable are protected from abuse. You cannot imagine what I have read and seen in CPS reports that passed for "discipline." A lack of response can also mean that the person is abusing and justifying in the name of discipline or training. Sorry but I definitely think the right of a child to be safe and protected trumps parental rights to privacy every . single. time.Furthermore medical professionals are often the first line of defense for the vulnerable child or adult. Those questions can save lives. I wish desperately someone would have asked those questions of some of the "parents" of our clients before they end up on disability with PTSD from being whipped with lamp cords on their little legs. for taking a cookie that was not permitted or breaking a VCR. These are normal things that really are everyday occurences we mostly deal and move on . Some people cannot do that . They are not that rare. Unfortunately many of them procreate . Too many here really have no idea what monsters some people can be. I attribute this to fundamental decency of the members on the board but am truly surprised at the bristling assertion of parental rights and privacy over the safety of our most vulnerable population. I know some will assert that no parent will admit to beating their children or using archaic methods of discipline that went out in the mid 20th century when children were no longer property like an mule. These medical professionals are trained to spot the falsehoods, excuses, stumbling , stuttering , stammering and deep swallows before answering, the whole gamut of body language that tells them something is not quite right. It is well within the expected area of expertise that these inquiries are made as nothing is more injurious to a child's health and well being than abuse . Jaded ? You bet. This is what I do for a living and I see this every . ****. day.

 

Thank you for saying this, elizabeth. My husband works in law enforcement and preventing/intervening in DV/child abuse cases is a particular passion of his. I wish more care providers would ask these kinds of questions. I wish more care providers (and teachers and other mandated reporters) would ask questions of this nature and follow up with CPS or law enforcement about them.

 

I have been screened for domestic violence during two pregnancies. I was never insulted. On the contrary, I was happy that they recognized that pregnancy is a vulnerable time for women and asked some leading questions to ascertain that I was safe and healthy. I want my care providers to do the same for my children, especially as they hit the ages where behavior problems can crop up or they can become extra spirited, which might result in an excess of "discipline" from their parents.

Edited October 29, 2009 by smrtmama

[fivetails]

In the above posted Section of the Criminal code:

 

The words “reasonable under the circumstances” in s. 43 mean that the force must be transitory and trifling, must not harm or degrade the child, and must not be based on the gravity of the wrongdoing. Reasonableness further implies that force may not be administered to teenagers, as it can induce aggressive or antisocial behaviour, may not involve objects such as rulers or belts, and may not be applied to the head. While corporal punishment itself is not reasonable in the school context, a majority of the Supreme Court concluded that teachers may use force to remove children from classrooms or secure compliance with instructions.

 

Admitting to hitting your kids with a spoon probably just called Children's Aid on your house.

 

Yeah but that bit isn't the actual Criminal Code itself....I don't really know what that other page actually *is* ... it looks like it's talking about a case of some sort in 2004, but if there's still nothing in the actual Criminal Code... ? (Obviously I've never really studied law) ...if you click on the disclaimer thing at the top of that page, it says: "These studies are not official Parliamentary or Canadian government documents" ....

[Laurie4b]

This is a safety issue and not about your comfort etc it is the duty of a professional to be certain that those who are vulnerable are protected from abuse. You cannot imagine what I have read and seen in CPS reports that passed for "discipline." A lack of response can also mean that the person is abusing and justifying in the name of discipline or training. Sorry but I definitely think the right of a child to be safe and protected trumps parental rights to privacy every . single. time.Furthermore medical professionals are often the first line of defense for the vulnerable child or adult. Those questions can save lives. I wish desperately someone would have asked those questions of some of the "parents" of our clients before they end up on disability with PTSD from being whipped with lamp cords on their little legs. for taking a cookie that was not permitted or breaking a VCR. These are normal things that really are everyday occurences we mostly deal and move on . Some people cannot do that . They are not that rare. Unfortunately many of them procreate . Too many here really have no idea what monsters some people can be. I attribute this to fundamental decency of the members on the board but am truly surprised at the bristling assertion of parental rights and privacy over the safety of our most vulnerable population. I know some will assert that no parent will admit to beating their children or using archaic methods of discipline that went out in the mid 20th century when children were no longer property like an mule. These medical professionals are trained to spot the falsehoods, excuses, stumbling , stuttering , stammering and deep swallows before answering, the whole gamut of body language that tells them something is not quite right. It is well within the expected area of expertise that these inquiries are made as nothing is more injurious to a child's health and well being than abuse . Jaded ? You bet. This is what I do for a living and I see this every . ****. day.

 

There is that side of it... then there is the other side. I'll speak from my experience in children's mental health. Being taken away from parents is extreme trauma. (For a child around age 2, the damage may be irreversable, even if the child is returned within a relatively short period of time.) The level of abuse suffered by the child should be more traumatic than continuing with the parent before it's contemplated.

 

If the system worked the way it's supposed to, there wouldn't be an issue. But it doesn't. The guardians-ad-litem in our area went to a national conference in which statistics were presented showing that abuse/neglect were more likely in the foster care system than in the original homes. (not than in the average home--in the original homes.) There are some very good foster homes, and some that are pure nightmare. With a shortage of homes, CPS too often looks the other way for warning signs (this happens with adoptive parents of foster kids, too.) CPS workers burn out very quickly. Their ave. length of experience is about a year.

 

What parents are objecting to is being asked to be self-incriminating when they are using discipline methods that don't produce that level of trauma but which someone might disagree with: note poster saying she would report for spanking with an implement--even a plastic spoon. That varies by jurisdiction in the US as to whether it constitutes abuse. You can get a very reasonable CPS worker (a former neighbor of mine was a supervisor of a CPS unit. If every worker were like her, it would be a great system) or you can get someone on a power trip working out their own anger issues on parents with no power whatsoever. The whole system stinks. Who in their right mind would want probing questions that might land their child into a system like that--and I'm talking about the decent parents.

[Joanne]

:iagree: Sometimes the demeanor of the person being asked the question says more than the answers.

 

A nurse is not just there to administer an injection. A good nurse cares about the whole patient, which includes the family, the home environment, etc. A public health nurse's responsibility goes beyond that into the community and region.

 

Um. Thank you, but, no. I do not take my children for vaccinations to be assessed as a family unit by a public nurse or to participate in evaluating the community or region.

 

Inject my kid with your diseased mercury and I'll SELECT professionals if I want evaluation in other areas, thank you.

[Remudamom]

There is no reason for a nurse to ask those types of questions without some basis for belief that there is abuse going on. I'm glad mine are grown. You're sliding down a very slippery slope. Why not just declare martial law and walk into every household and take the kids? Just remember yours are going too.

 

BTW, this makes me very thankful for our family doctor. He homeschools and has at least 10 kids.

[Laurie4b]

This is really bothering me and I thought I would see what your experience has been regarding this.

 

Do the health professionals you see with your children ever ask you how you discipline your children?

 

I had a vaccination appointment this morning for my youngest son with a public health nurse at the local hospital. It was not the nurse I usually see because my regular nurse was busy. If it had been the regular one, this would not be an issue because I know her so well.

 

She began to ask me how I discipline. I thought it was an odd question so I answered very vaguely saying "A little of everything," which, by the way, is the truth. Then she outright asked, "Physical?" What can I do, I'm not going to lie. So mustering as much confidence and care-free attitude as possible, I said yes. She continued, "Just with the hand?"

 

At this point I should have had the presence of mind to ask why it was any of her business. But I continued my good-natured answers and said no. When she asked what we used, I told her the truth; a plastic spoon. She gave me a funny look so I explained that we believe when used properly, it is very effective...I'm not sure what else I said. Something to that effect though.

 

This makes me very very nervous. What business of hers is it how I discipline my children? I had all my boys with me in that tiny little office and I must say, they were all quiet and calm, answered her questions confidently and directly, obeyed her instructions the first time and my 3yo cleaned up all the little toys he was playing with without being asked. Clearly, it should have been obvious that my kids don't have issues because of our disciplinary choices.

 

This is really disturbing me. When I got home I left a message with my regular nurse and I am going to ask her if this was appropriate or not and what I should do about it, or what she could do about it for me.

 

Sorry this is so long. Really, it shouldn't be any of their business unless there are obvious issues with my kids, right? :001_huh:

 

I would suggest that you call an attorney and find out whether spanking with an implement such as a plastic spoon is considered grounds for a CPS investigation in your area. If it is, you can be prepared ahead of time with counsel for what the best action for you is in your jurisdiction. Make sure your house is clean and that you are not out of milk or other staples. (Stupid, but can be an issue if CPS comes by.)

[Care]

Yeah but that bit isn't the actual Criminal Code itself....I don't really know what that other page actually *is* ... it looks like it's talking about a case of some sort in 2004, but if there's still nothing in the actual Criminal Code... ? (Obviously I've never really studied law) ...if you click on the disclaimer thing at the top of that page, it says: "These studies are not official Parliamentary or Canadian government documents" ....

It appears to be the Supreme Court interpretation on first glance. Knowing that CAS will come into a home even on ridiculous pretenses if a call is placed, it is fairly safe to assume they'll be calling. Rightfully or wrongfully is less the question than will they or won't they - and if the nurse looked disturbed about hitting with a spoon, I'd assume she'd make the call.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Um. Thank you, but, no. I do not take my children for vaccinations to be assessed as a family unit by a public nurse or to participate in evaluating the community or region.

 

Inject my kid with your diseased mercury and I'll SELECT professionals if I want evaluation in other areas, thank you.

 

I can understand your point of view but as a nurse I was required to ask specific questions of every patient on admission. The questions were listed right on the admission forms and from what I recall were mandated by law in our state. of course, someone could always decline, but the intent of the law was meant to be helpful by identifying potential abuse. In general, all medical questions can be thought of as intrusive.

 

My 2 cents:)

[Care]

There is no reason for a nurse to ask those types of questions without some basis for belief that there is abuse going on. I'm glad mine are grown. You're sliding down a very slippery slope. Why not just declare martial law and walk into every household and take the kids? Just remember yours are going too.

 

BTW, this makes me very thankful for our family doctor. He homeschools and has at least 10 kids.

There actually IS good reason. The hospital is a government facility. Bringing your child to the hospital, even for vaccinations, opens you up to this sort of questioning. They ask because they HAVE TO. Because it helps identify the kids that are truly at risk. And honestly, if they want to ask, more power to them. If I'm not doing anything wrong, then there's no reason for concern.

[TxMama]

I can understand your point of view but as a nurse I was required to ask specific questions of every patient on admission. The questions were listed right on the admission forms and from what I recall were mandated by law in our state. of course, someone could always decline, but the intent of the law was meant to be helpful by identifying potential abuse. In general, all medical questions can be thought of as intrusive.

 

My 2 cents:)

:iagree::iagree:

[Joanne]

I can understand your point of view but as a nurse I was required to ask specific questions of every patient on admission. The questions were listed right on the admission forms and from what I recall were mandated by law in our state. of course, someone could always decline, but the intent of the law was meant to be helpful by identifying potential abuse. In general, all medical questions can be thought of as intrusive.

 

My 2 cents:)

 

I don't consider where my kids sleep, school, shower or how my family handles discipline a *medical* question.

 

I come to a Dr's office for medical issues. I don't personally find them or their staff any more equipped to offer *parenting* advice than anyone else.

[Joanne]

There actually IS good reason. The hospital is a government facility. Bringing your child to the hospital, even for vaccinations, opens you up to this sort of questioning. They ask because they HAVE TO. Because it helps identify the kids that are truly at risk. And honestly, if they want to ask, more power to them. If I'm not doing anything wrong, then there's no reason for concern.

 

I'm not "concerned" from an investigative standpoint. Not only do I not spank or use physical discipline, I speak and write against it.

 

I believe it to be a boundary and parental authority issue.

 

I get that the person might "have to". It's the "have to" I am questioning.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I don't consider where my kids sleep, school, shower or how my family handles discipline a *medical* question.

 

I come to a Dr's office for medical issues. I don't personally find them or their staff any more equipped to offer *parenting* advice than anyone else.

 

I can also see this point. However, nurses are taught over and over again to treat the whole person from a holistic point of view and I hope doctors are as well:) IMHO, if someone is being abused, then their health, including spiritual, mental, and physical, is at great risk. Therefore, nurses and many doctors are concerned about these issues as well. Nurses learn quite a bit on parenting and I would hope that doctors do so as well:) That, of course, does not mean they are good at giving advice on it though depending on their retention of the educational pursuits and their abilities as a doctor or a nurse;)

 

P.S. Not trying to be argumentative, just giving some perspective as a nurse;)

[LibraryLover]

I can also see this point. However, nurses are taught over and over again to treat the whole person from a holistic point of view and I hope doctors are as well:) IMHO, if someone is being abused, then their health, including spiritual, mental, and physical, is at great risk. Therefore, nurses and many doctors are concerned about these issues as well. Nurses learn quite a bit on parenting and I would hope that doctors do so as well:) That, of course, does not mean they are good at giving advice on it though depending on their retention of the educational pursuits and their abilities as a doctor or a nurse;)

 

P.S. Not trying to be argumentative, just giving some perspective as a nurse;)

 

 

We want medicine to be holilstic, but only certian parts. Treat me, know me, care about me, but don't ask anything about me.

[Remudamom]

There actually IS good reason. The hospital is a government facility. Bringing your child to the hospital, even for vaccinations, opens you up to this sort of questioning. They ask because they HAVE TO. Because it helps identify the kids that are truly at risk. And honestly, if they want to ask, more power to them. If I'm not doing anything wrong, then there's no reason for concern.

 

 

I'm not concerned, for me and my family anyhow. Simply outraged at the way things are going in this country. Yes there are kids truly at risk. Find them without a witch hunt. No I don't know how, but I know how not to.

They ask because they have to? Therein lies the problem.

[Care]

I would be more concerned about the boundary issue if the nurses were coming to me in a private setting - my home, for example. However, a hospital run clinic is a public setting - the government runs that facility. If you don't like it, you have the option to take the child to a pediatrician, or to a walk-in clinic, neither of which is government run, and neither has ever even attempted to ask these kinds of questions (at least of me, others' mileage may vary).