Heather in Neverland Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am sure we have all seen it or been victims of it...this idea of "punsihing the group for the misdeeds of a few members". What is your opinion on this? example: my son was in gym class yesterday. His teacher was explaining something and about 15 kids were goofing off, not listening, but about 5 kids were listening. the teacher asked a question about what he had just said and asked the kids to raise their hand if they knew the answer. the 5 kids who were listening raised their hands. because most of the kids were not listening and did not know the answer, he made the entire class run laps...even the ones who knew the answer. :glare: i asked his teacher about it and his response is that he is trying to get them to work as a team. ??? My ds was upset and sees no incentive to pay attention if he is just going to get punished with the slackers anyway. What says the hive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) I don't know about the hive, but I say that is one of many reasons I have chosen to home school. When you institutionalize children, decisions have to be made for the institution and for the majority, not for the individual. Even the most kind, fair and well meaning teacher cannot possibly address all the children's needs all of the time, they are lucky if they can address most children's needs most of the time. The coach's strategy is not to make them work as a team, it's to make the children apply social sanctions for inappropriate behavior, that is, he is delegating his crowd control responsibility onto the children. Effective? Sometimes. Appropriate? Probably not, most of the time. I remember an occasion in 7th grade when somebody had made a mess, and the teachers kept the whole year (about 100 students) in after school. We were told that nobody will go home until the culprit has confessed. I just wish I'd been brave enough at the time to tell them where to go and walk out. Edited October 21, 2009 by Hotdrink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I've always hated this sort of thing. It seems like it happens more because the teacher is not creative enough to find something for those who were listening to do while those who were not listening receive a consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am opposed. It goes against my ruggedly independent spirit. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cindie2dds Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I don't know about the hive, but I say that is one of many reasons I have chosen to home school. When you institutionalize children, decisions have to be made for the institution and for the majority, not for the individual. Even the most kind, fair and well meaning teacher cannot possibly address all the children's needs all of the time, they are lucky if they can address most children's needs most of the time. The coach's strategy is not to make them work as a team, it's to make the children apply social sanctions for inappropriate behavior, that is, he is delegating his crowd control responsibility onto the children. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 My kids hated this when they were in public school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Not in a school setting. I think everyone who didn't raise thier hands should have run the laps...that seems reasonable, not everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's gym-class. Man-up, and run laps :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jana Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 The problem is, listening isn't a team activity it's an individual thing. Even if you agree with his model of disciple (and I don't) he has misapplied it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 This is a huge pet peeve of mine. Dh has a boss like this and I know it irritates him too. I think it is part of the 'everyone is equal' 'no winners/no losers' mentality and I don't think it teaches kids to strive for anything other than what is required to barely get by. I have always thought of the analogy of a chain and it only being as strong as its weakest link. This mentality makes me think that all chains in the future will be made of khaki green paper. Nothing special, kinda blah and definitely... all the same. It also makes the authority reactive instead of proactive. Personally I would rather see excellent effort recognized, average effort ignored, and negative effort/attitude penalized. I don't know how it is possible to encourage people to succeed if positive/excellent effort is penalized. It amazes me how American education is set on becoming synonymous with "average education" as everyone becomes equalized . Instead of the eagle as a national symbol, we are going to end up replacing it with the sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am sure we have all seen it or been victims of it...this idea of "punsihing the group for the misdeeds of a few members". What is your opinion on this? example: my son was in gym class yesterday. His teacher was explaining something and about 15 kids were goofing off, not listening, but about 5 kids were listening. the teacher asked a question about what he had just said and asked the kids to raise their hand if they knew the answer. the 5 kids who were listening raised their hands. because most of the kids were not listening and did not know the answer, he made the entire class run laps...even the ones who knew the answer. :glare: i asked his teacher about it and his response is that he is trying to get them to work as a team. ??? My ds was upset and sees no incentive to pay attention if he is just going to get punished with the slackers anyway. What says the hive? ARGGHHH...you don't even want to get me started on this. This is one of the primary reasons I'm homeschooling 5th grade this year. The day my daughter came home telling me that she was going to have to run for the third day in a row when she did her job right on day 1 and again day 2 (w/ asthma attack) is what pushed me over the edge. I put a stop to that and I did explain to the teacher that with this policy there was no incentive for good kids to continue being good. I know it doesn't have to be this way. My older kids are at or have been through the junior high and never once did I hear them complain about the whole class being impacted by those with behaviors. There they take swift action on the problem kids only and life in class goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I just wish I'd been brave enough at the time to tell them where to go and walk out. I was that child. :D No one was ever brave enough to follow me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. Where is PQR when I need him? :tongue_smilie: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It amazes me how American education is set on becoming synonymous with "average education" as everyone becomes equalized . Instead of the eagle as a national symbol, we are going to end up replacing it with the sheep. Not only in American - we have the same problem here in India and here it is blamed on the socialist outlook! The kids who behave are expected to keep their peers in line. The whole team is punished if one kids misbehaves. I don't like it and DD finds it frustrating. I agree with the poster who said it was "lazy teaching!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I don't know about the hive, but I say that is one of many reasons I have chosen to home school. When you institutionalize children, decisions have to be made for the institution and for the majority, not for the individual. :iagree: This is why I homeschool, so that I don't have to deal with this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. Where is PQR when I need him? :tongue_smilie: Bill Just asked hubby the question and he is on Bill's side. Coaches tend to do this. Hubby also says that is tame compared to what most coaches or P.E. teachers can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. I don't disagree with running laps in gym class. I make *my own* children run laps around the park in front of our house when they are acting crazy. I was speaking to the general idea of institutionalized, group punishment in my post. I'm a contrarian at heart, hence the homeschooling. eta: Bill, would your answer be different if it was detention for everyone or 50 lines of "I will listen in class?" Edited October 21, 2009 by Mrs Mungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. Where is PQR when I need him? :tongue_smilie: Bill Sorry, Bill. I disagree with you on this one. It's one thing for everyone to run laps because that was part of the planned gym activities. It is another thing for the entire class to be running laps as discipline if the entire class wasn't fooling around. I'm not saying that the "good" kids should be making daisy chains on the side-lines. The teacher should be doing a gym game with them while the others run laps and watch longingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's gym-class. Man-up, and run laps :D Bill I'm with Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It can be used to create positive peer pressure--everyone knows that if so-and-so acts up, we all have to run laps. So they tell so-and-so to knock it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It can be used to create positive peer pressure--everyone knows that if so-and-so acts up, we all have to run laps. So they tell so-and-so to knock it off. I think that is the theory but how many younger kids are really going to take that upon themselves? Not many. My DD is in 4th and is not comfortable having to discipline her peers. That is the teacher's job IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I don't disagree with running laps in gym class. I make *my own* children run laps around the park in front of our house when they are acting crazy. I was speaking to the general idea of institutionalized, group punishment in my post. I'm a contrarian at heart, hence the homeschooling. I'm also a contrarian at heart, so I knew this thread was perfect :D Sorry, Bill. I disagree with you on this one. See? It's one thing for everyone to run laps because that was part of the planned gym activities. It is another thing for the entire class to be running laps as discipline if the entire class wasn't fooling around. I'm not saying that the "good" kids should be making daisy chains on the side-lines. The teacher should be doing a gym game with them while the others run laps and watch longingly. No. no. Gym class is a time for manly activities, like a proxy the military. You need to foster a little group-think and collective punishment. Otherwise, you'd never be able to mount an army. No army, no wars. And then where would we be? :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cindie2dds Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 No. no. Gym class is a time for manly activities, like a proxy the military. You need to foster a little group-think and collective punishment. Otherwise, you'd never be able to mount an army. No army, no wars. And then where would we be? :D Bill Oh, Bill! A whole 'nother thread, that's where we'd be. Now if the world were run by women ...... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just asked hubby the question and he is on Bill's side. Coaches tend to do this. Hubby also says that is tame compared to what most coaches or P.E. teachers can do. Tell him he's welcome to come over for a barbeque. We'll grill meat on open flames :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 No. no. Gym class is a time for manly activities, like a proxy the military. You need to foster a little group-think and collective punishment. Otherwise, you'd never be able to mount an army. No army, no wars. And then where would we be? :D Bill W-e-l-l... again, point taken with Bill's side. LOL As a former K-6 teacher, there have been scenarios I witnessed this being used. One time, the 2 classes involved (having to run laps instead of capture the flag) the PE teacher let the good kids sit out and ones goofing off run. Believe me, it works. Kids tend to turn on one another and peer pressure each other when it comes to group punishment. We supported the PE teacher's decision and backed her up. The kids got the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Tell him he's welcome to come over for a barbeque. We'll grill meat on open flames :D Bill LOL... he'd love it! Tonight, he had "Man Cave" time with his buddies -- our apartment complex has a clubhouse with a pool table. They watched sports on the big screen, did a round of pool, smoked cigars, and some beer. He had a blast! Meat would have made it even better! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Tell him he's welcome to come over for a barbeque. We'll grill meat on open flames :D Bill Baby octopus, right? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 LOL... he'd love it! Tonight, he had "Man Cave" time with his buddies -- our apartment complex has a clubhouse with a pool table. They watched sports on the big screen, did a round of pool, smoked cigars, and some beer. He had a blast! That's what I'm talking about! :D Meat would have made it even better! ;) Everything is better with meat :lol: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Baby octopus, right? :D What-ever we can spear :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh, and I already sent a note to school telling my dd's teacher not to make her run laps. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I was that child. :D No one was ever brave enough to follow me. me too! And I got MORE punishment for refusing to conform to stupidity. Well they tried to give me more anyways but I pretty much ignored them. It can be used to create positive peer pressure--everyone knows that if so-and-so acts up, we all have to run laps. So they tell so-and-so to knock it off. yeah. About that. You know the only kids likely to have the moxy to do that are very likely bullies that are not going to just say knock it off, but rather knock the guy senseless? If all that is neccessary is telling the guy to knock it off - then why can't the coach man up and do it? And yeah, my dh is grumbling in the background about manning up too. Oh well. What do I know - I skipped every gym class I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 eta: Bill, would your answer be different if it was detention for everyone or 50 lines of "I will listen in class?" Yes. But in gym class. Start running boys! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Yes. But in gym class. Start running boys! Bill You are so funny! My ds actually likes running normally. In fact, what he said to me was "Mom, running supposed to be a healthy activity. But when a teacher uses it for punishment he just makes us hate it when he should be teaching us to enjoy the health benefits!" I couldn't argue with that. I think it shows a lack of creativity on the teacher's part as far as classroom management is concerned. He's just lucky he works in a school of pretty good kids. I'd like to see a teacher get away with a "group punishment" scheme in the inner city Detroit HS where I taught! Yeah, right. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicianmom Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Punishing the group does NOT work and here's why. The kids who are causing the problems do not care. It's no big deal for them to be in trouble because they're going to be in trouble anyway. They get a sense of power from being able to drag everyone else down with them. As for positive peer pressure, that doesn't work because either 1.) these are the kids no one likes anyway, so they're used to negative attention from their peers, or 2) they're the top dogs of the pack, and no one is going to stand up to them. There's also the issue of kids being too cool to care about punishment. So it's better to goof off in class and take the punishment than to be a goody-goody. I have horrible memories of this from elementary school. I had knots in my stomach and anxiety attacks from dreading certain classes where the teacher would apply group punishment. The other kids in my class did not care if they had to miss recess, because to them it was worth it to be able to talk in class. I cared, but I was at the bottom rung of the social ladder, so I couldn't exactly convince them to do otherwise. Group punishment is the lazy teacher's way out. A class is not a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's gym-class. Man-up, and run laps :D Bill I agree with Bill. And frankly, although I am a rugged individualist, I think the whole "but *I* wasn't doing anything wrong, why should *I* have to go along with ____" to be a large part of why our society is going to hell in a handbasket. Did every single one of us have something crappy happen in our childhood that we'd rather our kids not endure/encounter? Sure. Are we necessarily making them *better* or *stronger* by trying to insure that they never have to meet up with any of those same experiences? I don't personally think so. Neither do I think that, even trying my hardest, *could* I prevent it. Groups/teams/militaries/societies live or die by whether or not they are capable of banding together towards a common goal. The strong survive, the weak get left behind or die. Anthropological studies bear this out. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am sure we have all seen it or been victims of it...this idea of "punsihing the group for the misdeeds of a few members". What is your opinion on this? example: my son was in gym class yesterday. His teacher was explaining something and about 15 kids were goofing off, not listening, but about 5 kids were listening. the teacher asked a question about what he had just said and asked the kids to raise their hand if they knew the answer. the 5 kids who were listening raised their hands. because most of the kids were not listening and did not know the answer, he made the entire class run laps...even the ones who knew the answer. :glare: i asked his teacher about it and his response is that he is trying to get them to work as a team. ??? My ds was upset and sees no incentive to pay attention if he is just going to get punished with the slackers anyway. What says the hive? As Americans, we think in terms of individuals all the time, but many cultures around the world think in terms of the group and the effect of one's behavior on the group. Each way of looking at the world has its advantages and disadvantages. You've cited a disadvantage of the "group" model--whether in a whole culture or in an athletic subculture--but there are advantages as well. In athletics, a team will be much more effective if the individual members curtail their individual aspirations and replace those with the good of the team. Teams made up of A- athletes who are team-oriented will beat teams with a few A+ athletes who are individually oriented almost every time. Running laps is good for you. I think teaching ds to roll with the punches when they're not all that bad is an important life lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I am sure we have all seen it or been victims of it...this idea of "punsihing the group for the misdeeds of a few members". What is your opinion on this? example: my son was in gym class yesterday. His teacher was explaining something and about 15 kids were goofing off, not listening, but about 5 kids were listening. the teacher asked a question about what he had just said and asked the kids to raise their hand if they knew the answer. the 5 kids who were listening raised their hands. because most of the kids were not listening and did not know the answer, he made the entire class run laps...even the ones who knew the answer. :glare: i asked his teacher about it and his response is that he is trying to get them to work as a team. ??? My ds was upset and sees no incentive to pay attention if he is just going to get punished with the slackers anyway. What says the hive? All I can say is Welcome to Asia!!! We lived in Japan for 7 years as a family and yes, group is before individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 In school, I became one of those slackers. My motivation was stripped from me when I suffered consequences for someone else's actions. I figured I might as well have fun with them than be a well-behaved student who was never acknowledged. I did the same thing with shared projects. I always got teamed up with someone who didn't want to do the work and expected I would do it all. I felt only resentment and disgust and there was no way I was going to be suckered into helping a person get a good grade for doing nothing. School did not make me a team player. I learned distrust and disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 And frankly, although I am a rugged individualist, I think the whole "but *I* wasn't doing anything wrong, why should *I* have to go along with ____" to be a large part of why our society is going to hell in a handbasket. a That's funny. I was originally going to say this whole team approach is what's wrong with America today but I didn't want to get political. America was built on rugged individualism where everyone was responsible for themselves. A true team approach comes from within the team itself and can not be applied by an outside force. You chose which team you want to be a part of and the group chose which members it wants to have. Now we have a team approach in America where the strong carry the weak and the good pay the price for the bad whether they want to or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. Yes, it is gym class, but there is a huge difference between the school expectation of the class, and additional work as a punishment. It is the same thing as making a student write 'I will listen to my teacher.' Not everyone reacts to negative reinforcement. It can create a person with a very low self-esteem. The punishment says 'You are a dumb*ss, and not worth any effort.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Did every single one of us have something crappy happen in our childhood that we'd rather our kids not endure/encounter? Sure. Are we necessarily making them *better* or *stronger* by trying to insure that they never have to meet up with any of those same experiences? I don't personally think so. That smacks of 'it was good enough for me so it's good enough for you.' Keeping our kids from that type of education may not work for everyone, but punishing kids didn't always work either. I don't see a winning way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I don't know about the hive, but I say that is one of many reasons I have chosen to home school. When you institutionalize children, decisions have to be made for the institution and for the majority, not for the individual. Even the most kind, fair and well meaning teacher cannot possibly address all the children's needs all of the time, they are lucky if they can address most children's needs most of the time. The coach's strategy is not to make them work as a team, it's to make the children apply social sanctions for inappropriate behavior, that is, he is delegating his crowd control responsibility onto the children. Effective? Sometimes. Appropriate? Probably not, most of the time. :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgm Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 The bigger problem is that the teacher went straight to punishment instead of using effective positive discipline. Some of my sons' teachers are pretty clever at developing attuned students. They'd reward the listeners and then go on with the class. It's effective, and it shapes the behavior of all but the hardcore. Something typical for gym would be: 'if you're listening, run X laps' then get attention of the talkers and give them 2X laps. After the first 9 weeks, the school punishment plan kicks in and the hardcore go the warning, conference, ISS, OSS, alternative school path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I can definitely see both sides of the argument and have taken the defensive position of my child recently with a Scout issue. I took on all the leaders and was quite fierce- even though my child was not innocent, their way of handling him became unecessarily brutal, and he was treated far worse than the other kids for the same incident. But then, after I knew they knew I would be watching, I have backed right off because I don't want my kid to feel he can get me to come and protect him at Scouts when he is hardly perfectin his behaviour there, and one of the reasons we have him there is to learn how to behave in groups. So I think there is a place for kids to learn the rough and tumble of groups and a bit of unfairness etc, otherwise we are raising kids who are a bit too soft, I think. It's been good for my son to come home from Scouts and tell me his leaders picked on him again, and instead of crying and complaining, he sucks it in and we help him realise- they are only human, its not easy to be a leader, they are doing their best, he presses their buttons with his attitude at times etc. In other words- life is not always fair but sometimes you just gotta go for the greater good and go with the flow with it. Its all a balance though- I am not advocating allowing abuse- just not picking on every incident. Maybe the gym teacher was having a hard day and running out of creative ideas of how to deal with the discipline issue as well as get the class happening. Doenst make it right but I would cut him some slack. ANd I wouldnt be a teacher in a school for anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Gee, Bill, I didn't realize that a little kids' gym class was supposed to be preparation for the army. I thought it was supposed to be about fitness. I can see the "group think" necessity for some situations (like the army), but not this one. Heather, I agree with your son on this - no better way to make someone hate an activity than to use it as punishment. Also, I forgot who mentioned the peer pressure to make everyone else behave mentality. I think that one is laughable in this case . The kids who misbehaved far outnumbered those who behaved. I think the peer pressure would have the opposite effect - the one Heather's son described. Where is the incentive to listen now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 The bigger problem is that the teacher went straight to punishment instead of using effective positive discipline. Some of my sons' teachers are pretty clever at developing attuned students. They'd reward the listeners and then go on with the class. It's effective, and it shapes the behavior of all but the hardcore. Something typical for gym would be: 'if you're listening, run X laps' then get attention of the talkers and give them 2X laps. After the first 9 weeks, the school punishment plan kicks in and the hardcore go the warning, conference, ISS, OSS, alternative school path. Now this would be more effective. Reward the good behavior and punish the bad behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Gee, Bill, I didn't realize that a little kids' gym class was supposed to be preparation for the army. I thought it was supposed to be about fitness. I can see the "group think" necessity for some situations (like the army), but not this one. :iagree: It all depends what you want to prepare your child for. If you want them to be in a situation like an army, then group punishments are the way to go. The idea is that later the kids who knew the answer will teach the goof offs a "private lesson" and next time they will listen also. Now, I wouldn't want my kids to have to be responsible for disciplining the other students, so I wouldn't want that sort of punishment used on them. But it's up to each parent to decide how they want to raise up their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For crying out loud, it's gym class ladies. You run in gym class. Where is PQR when I need him? :tongue_smilie: Bill :lol::lol::lol: Oh, this just made my day! It like when Clinton and GHW Bush worked together for the tsunami relief... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm not all that interested in protecting my kids from things I hated growing up. But as an American and a Christian I am interested in them learning justice. I do not see justice in punishing the group bc the PTB don't want to man up and deal specificly with the wrongdoers. I think that is the problem with American today!:D the first time this happened I'd say nothing. The second time it happened I'd state my concern for the lack of justice and logic this punishment gives. I imagine if it happened a 3rd time my kid would be sick of it and prefer to join some other program and I'd let him. If my kid was the problem kid - he'd be in deep doo if it got to a third time. I'm guessing the real problem is that the majority of the kids hate pe and just don't care to listen but it's a class they are required to attend? Not sure what to do about that. I know I was one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 That smacks of 'it was good enough for me so it's good enough for you.' I agree. This mindset is also why hazing can be so persistent. At one of our local Catholic (!) high schools, many of the ADULTS were reluctant to end the hazing practices. Reason? It wouldn't be fair to the seniors - - they had been bullied as freshman, and it was 'their turn' to be the bullies. A teacher who quickly turns to group punishment is a teacher who has little idea of how to control a classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.