MBH Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) This morning one of the neighbor children, 13 yrs. old. rode his bike to another neighbor's house to play. When got there he laid it down on the driveway behind the neighbor's SUV. An hour later the neighbor lady told the boys she was going to the store. Before she backed out, she looked into the rear view mirror and didn't see anything. She looked into the side mirrors and did not see anything. When she left, she backed over the bike. The back wheel is bent out of shape, the frame appears to be fine. The chain holder or revolver is bent a little. The back wheel is not spinning. The Bike might be around $500! Should she pay for the damage? Thanks. Edited July 30, 2009 by MBH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hmmm. Seems like both parties made mistakes: A 13-year-old should know not to lay down his bike right behind a car, and the neighbor lady certainly should know to check behind her SUV before backing. Perhaps they should both admit some wrong, both learn a lesson, and each pay 1/2 of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 At 13yo, the child is responsible. I would assume any kid who lives in a neighborhood has been told to not to put a bike behind a car. If the mom could have seen the bike easily, but over looked it, I would think she should pay 1/2 the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If a child is old enough to ride their bike to the neighbors house, they should be old enough to know not to leave it where it can get ran over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I cant imagine being held responsible when the child laid it down behind a parked vehicle in a driveway. Difficult lesson to learn, but I would consider it the childs negligence, not the homeowners. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Mouse Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think the 13yo is responsible for the damage to his bike. Did running over the bike cause any damage to the SUV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda1951 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 teach the child you do no leave bikes where people cannot see them and run over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 In my opinion, she should not be expected to pay a dime. A child his age should know (or take this opportunity to learn) that you don't store your best expensive stuff behind the wheels of vehicles. I'm sorry about the bike :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 and the neighbor lady certainly should know to check behind her SUV before backing Do most people walk all the way around their vehicle before backing out? I always scan the area to see if any kids are out and in the vicinity before I get in. Then, I keep a close eye out for movement around my vehicle. But, I don't look to see if someone has left a bike or toy (which probably isn't visible from the drivers seat) directly behind my van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyinNNV Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 13 yo is responsible for the bike and any damage to the neighbor's SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieJ Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This happened to us once. DH felt he needed to show responsibility as a good driver and he paid for the repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hmmm. Seems like both parties made mistakes: A 13-year-old should know not to lay down his bike right behind a car, and the neighbor lady certainly should know to check behind her SUV before backing. Perhaps they should both admit some wrong, both learn a lesson, and each pay 1/2 of the cost. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Do most people walk all the way around their vehicle before backing out? No...but this woman should be glad it was a bike, not a toddler. I think both have a part in this. Any 13yo should know better than to leave his bike behind a vehicle. But any adult would be wise to look around the vehicle (for a few reasons) before leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Imo, the kid should've watched where he left his bike. Technically, though, isn't it their fault, because it happened on their property? Not sure about the liability there, but I think that's right. I wouldn't pay for the bike, it shouldn't have been there, and he had warning, she said she was leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I just described the situation to my 13 year old boy, who has a nice, fairly new bike that he paid for himself. He didn't even hesitate with his answer. He said that the kid should pay for the bike damage, because it's his fault for leaving it behind the SUV. Lori ETA: I always back my van into our driveway. That way I've just driven up to the house, and know there's nothing in my driveway. When it's time to leave, I pull out forward. My old neighbor was married to an RCMP (that's a cop in Canada), and she always used to do this. It seemed like a great idea, so I started the habit. Edited July 30, 2009 by LBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich with Kids Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 First of all, when I read through the first sentence I thought he laid down behind the SUV. (I need some caffeine) I have a 13 yo ds and I would never think of asking for the neighbor to pay for it. We are really pushing taking responsibility for your actions. Bottom line is that he left his bike behind a big car. It was run over. I 'd make ds either work off the cost of the repairs or save up for a less expensive bike. That's real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommy2be Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Yeah, thd kid should pay for his own bike. What's the difference if it was a toy truck or a ninja turtle? It shouldn't have been there. Also, a nice expensive bike should have been put up on the kickstand anyways! I would be furious if someone asked me to pay for a $500 bike because a kid was silly enough to lay it down behind a vehicle. Plus, she let them know she was leaving - that should have set off an alarm bell. "OH, I need to move my bike!" I do not walk around my vehicle when I am leaving my property... I do look in all of the mirrors and turn around to look, but I do not walk around it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Do most people walk all the way around their vehicle before backing out? I always scan the area to see if any kids are out and in the vicinity before I get in. Then, I keep a close eye out for movement around my vehicle. But, I don't look to see if someone has left a bike or toy (which probably isn't visible from the drivers seat) directly behind my van. Especially with a minivan or SUV with fairly large blindspots, drivers should take a second to scan behind the vehicle. What if instead of a bike, it had been a trike -- with a toddler on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No. And the child is responsible for any damage to her car. If my 13yo son did this I would have NO SYMPATHY for him. NONE. And I would have him go to the neighbor and apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I believe the child is responsible. A 13 year old should no better. My 9 year old always drops his bike in the yard of his friend away from the drive way, So if he can knows and remembers to do that then the 13year old with the $500 bike should be far more responsible. The neighbor told the boys she was going out and took all percautions most people would so she should not be responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The kid is responsible for the bike. I ALWAYS look behind the car before backing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The kids is completely responsible for the placement of his bike. I would not expect the neighbor to pay, and I would not pay for a teenager's bike left behind my car. That's CRAZY! Teenagers have to be responsible for their own possessions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No, I do not think it's reasonable to expect the driver to pay for the bike, though she certainly may offer if she feels that's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think the kid needs to call it "stupid tax" and start saving up for a new bike, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This happened to us once. DH felt he needed to show responsibility as a good driver and he paid for the repairs. While I agree that the kid should not expect reimbursement, he will soon be a driver. I just started teaching my oldest to drive, and looking well before you back out is a major lesson. If I were the driver, I would offer to chip in some, maybe up to half the value of the bike. I think that would say more to the kid about how to be responsible than to just let it all fall on his shoulders. I don't see it as a black-and-white issue, but rather a great learning opportunity. And, as Pam H has already pointed out, the driver should be very thankful it was a bike and not a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Hmmm. Seems like both parties made mistakes: A 13-year-old should know not to lay down his bike right behind a car, and the neighbor lady certainly should know to check behind her SUV before backing. Perhaps they should both admit some wrong, both learn a lesson, and each pay 1/2 of the cost. :iagree: A driver's legal responsibility is to make sure she is cleared before backing up and she clearly did not do this. I don't think just because the child is old enough to know better absolves her of her legal responsibility. Edited July 30, 2009 by Wendy B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No. People should not be expected to walk around a vehicle before pulling out. I make sure all of my children are accounted for, and if they are playing outside with other kids I walk around to make sure no one is standing there, but I've never met anyone who walks around a car everytime the person leaves. There are appropriate places to put bicycles, and streets and behind vehicles are not. Was the SUV damaged at all from the bicycle? Edited to add: Obviously there are people on the board here who check behind their vehicles everytime they back out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbows Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think the 13 yr old is responsible.....he should know its not a good idea to put a bike right behind a car. I have a rear view camera on my van but it doesnt show anything really low to the ground---I totally could have run over a bike if it was right behind my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The teen is the responsible party here. My DD was held accountable when she left her scooter behind my car when she was 4 years old and I ran over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Another way of looking at this.... If she backed into an illegally parked car would she pay for the damages? The answer is of course she would but she would only be held accountable for 1/2 of the damages since she had 1/2 the blame and the driver of the illegally parked car would have the other 1/2 of the blame. It's unfair to hold a 13 yo at a higher level of accountability for an illegally parked bike then the court would hold an adult driver with an illegally parked car. Hopefully she'll learn to make sure she is clear before she backs up and the 13yo will learn to properly park his vehicles in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylk in tx Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If she backed into an illegally parked car would she pay for the damages? The answer is of course she would but she would only be held accountable for 1/2 of the damages since she had 1/2 the blame and the driver of the illegally parked car would have the other 1/2 of the blame. This has happened to my brother-in-law in front of his own house. Someone visiting them who parked directly across the street from a driveway got backed into. The person who illegally parked (their company) was 100% responsible for all damages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If she backed into an illegally parked car would she pay for the damages? The answer is of course she would but she would only be held accountable for 1/2 of the damages since she had 1/2 the blame and the driver of the illegally parked car would have the other 1/2 of the blame. This has happened to my brother-in-law in front of his own house. Someone visiting them who parked directly across the street from a driveway got backed into. The person who illegally parked (their company) was 100% responsible for all damages. That's funny. It happened to my dh in Texas and he had to pay 1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I wish we had a judge on the board. I would love to know the real life answer. IF it were my kid, I would not expect the driver to pay. I would also have the child find out if there are any damages to the vehicle that needed to be addressed. However, if *I* were the driver, I would offer half the cost of the bike and would ask for half of the cost of any of my vehicle repairs. On a court show years ago, I saw a case where there was a discussion about how much at fault each party was in the situation. Based on that, each person was also responsible for that percentage of the fixing of the situation. I don't know that this is exactly the same, but I guess I just think it should be since both parties were irresponsible with the use of their property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prudent Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The kid is responsible, not the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgm Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Your state government has a code for this in its bicyle driver's manual..."bikes are not to park in such a way as to obstruct the movement of a legally parked motor vehicle"....it is the bicycle operator's responsibility. The neighbor has some choices...if it's the case where it would be a hardship for the boy or his family to replace the damaged parts, she could be kind and help the boy find something at the police sale or just replace the parts in exchange for yard work......after they all agree on where visitors are to park their bikes. I too park the vehicle backed in so that no neighbors playing dash behind me in the few seconds that my attention is elsewhere. Edited July 30, 2009 by lgm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loupelou Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No. People should not be expected to walk around a vehicle before pulling out. I make sure all of my children are accounted for, and if they are playing outside with other kids I walk around to make sure no one is standing there, but I've never met anyone who walks around a car everytime the person leaves. There are appropriate places to put bicycles, and streets and behind vehicles are not. Was the SUV damaged at all from the bicycle? Edited to add: Obviously there are people on the board here who check behind their vehicles every time they back out. :iagree::iagree::iagree: I must agree with Dawn! I have a big van, SUV's are large too. If this lady had already mentioned she was leaving, she knows where the kids are in her home. I always count my kids and check my mirrors, but come on, does everyone do a walk around or underneath check every time they jump in the car?!! If it was my child I would be furious and they would now be getting yet another painful lesson on how to take care of their possessions- as in if you want another you'll have to earn it yourself. They would also be paying for any damage to her vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in FL Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Especially with a minivan or SUV with fairly large blindspots, drivers should take a second to scan behind the vehicle. What if instead of a bike, it had been a trike -- with a toddler on it? I guess it might depend on the driveway. In order for a toddler to be behind my car while I back out of the driveway the toddler they would have to be about 5 car lengths in from the road. If your toddler is there and you weren't close enough to say hi to me while I got in the car, there would be serious supervision problems on the toddlers parents end! Plus, no toddlers live in my neighborhood, so I would not be walking around my car making sure one didn't wander into my yard. Not an attack on you Dave, just trying to say it really depends on the neighborhood. Hey Dave! I grew up in the Finger lakes area! In Trumansburg, on Cayuga? I also homeschool and have an 8th grade boy!! Small world! Welcome. Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If my kid leaves his bike behind someone's car and it gets run over, I call that a "natural consequence." And if people want to spend $500 on a car for their child, I guess that is their choice, but that's a LOT of money to spend on a bike for a 13 year old who isn't going to store it in a safe place! It's really not her fault that they spend that large sum, and if she were to want to pay for part of the bike, it wouldn't need to be anywhere near that much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in FL Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 First, my young 13 year old would never have a $500 bike!! But even if it was his $89 bike that he bought with his own money, I would be mad at him not the other mom. My son knows he can not leave his bike in front of any house, it must be behind the neighbors garage if he is there or in ours if he's home. Even in the nicest neighborhoods bikes get stolen from in front of houses. And my son would be in so much trouble if he left any bike lying on it's side, that is a no-no around here, even if it was the free bike his sister rides. Don't get me started on leaving it behind a car! Hello, my 13 yr old better know better than that! Not to mention the mom told the boys she was leaving and he had a chance right then to remember his bike and move it. If he's old enough to stay at a friends house alone while the mom goes and runs errands, he better be responsible for his bike! If this was my son, he would be in serious trouble! Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No. People should not be expected to walk around a vehicle before pulling out. I make sure all of my children are accounted for, and if they are playing outside with other kids I walk around to make sure no one is standing there, but I've never met anyone who walks around a car everytime the person leaves. Even if they did, getting back into the drivers seat still leaves plenty of time for people and possessions to make their way behind the car. It doesn't take long. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 whether or not there is a "legal" solution, i think there are several available "moral" solutions, that have more to do with showing grace and less to do with guilt. i think the bike rider can simply pay for the repairs and apologize to the driver for giving her heart failure ; ). i think the driver can offer to pay for part off the repairs and apologize to the bike rider for not having looked behind her car. there is such a thing as second chances... the bike rider now has a second chance to learn to think about what might happen and to leave his things in safer places. the driver now has a second chance each time she gets in her car to think about what might happen and make certain it can't happen again.... ...and so do each of us! because we are rural and i hate changing flat tires, i actually look at each of my tires before i get in my car. at least once a month, it means someone at home can help me put on the donut.... it takes maybe 4 seconds to check the tires. its a small amount of time to save me a lot of trouble.... so i'm thinking physically walking behind our car/truck/minivan/SUV before backing up (or backing in - i like this idea!) is not such a deal (the same 4 seconds)... and could save a lot of heartache... but i'm liking the backing in idea a lot. off to learn a new habit that will take me no more time at all, and make for safer moments each day.... thanks to the RCMP person whose wife developed the habit and the poster who mentioned it :001_smile:. ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamato4girls Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I cant imagine being held responsible when the child laid it down behind a parked vehicle in a driveway. Difficult lesson to learn, but I would consider it the childs negligence, not the homeowners. Kim :iagree: here, I would feel bad for backing over it, but having kids of my own that age, I would say they know better and are responsible. And it would NOT be replaced with a bike of the same value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 the kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 From the sidelines, I'd chalk it up to a learning experience for everyone, with each party bearing responsibility for any damage to his or her own property. If I were the driver, and there was no damage to my car, I'd offer a small compensation to the bike owner ... 25% or so of what I estimated the bike's value to be. I'd also discuss a specific appropriate place for bikes to be left in the future (i.e., patio or side yard). If I were the parents of the bike owner, I'd send my child over to apologize and inquire as to any damage to the car. I'd expect my child to offer labor/services to the neighbor (not money) as a show of apology for his role in the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebalm Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Heck no, the lady shouldn't pay! I actually DID this when I was a kid. My sweet little old lady aunt backed over my brand new shiny bike because I left it on its side in the driveway (more of a dirt path back then, KWIM). She felt so awful. It was a good life lesson. I never in a million years (even then) expected HER to pay for MY goof. Poor lady, poor kid. Brings back memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 :iagree: A driver's legal responsibility is to make sure she is cleared before backing up and she clearly did not do this. I don't think just because the child is old enough to know better absolves her of her legal responsibility. You are responsible to look by using your mirrors and turning in your seat to look back. If a car is behind you, you see it then or a pedestrian. You don't have to walk around your car everytime you drive it. Could this be a state issue? Could it just be a preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If she backed into an illegally parked car would she pay for the damages? The answer is of course she would but she would only be held accountable for 1/2 of the damages since she had 1/2 the blame and the driver of the illegally parked car would have the other 1/2 of the blame. This has happened to my brother-in-law in front of his own house. Someone visiting them who parked directly across the street from a driveway got backed into. The person who illegally parked (their company) was 100% responsible for all damages. That's funny. It happened to my dh in Texas and he had to pay 1/2. Your state government has a code for this in its bicyle driver's manual..."bikes are not to park in such a way as to obstruct the movement of a legally parked motor vehicle"....it is the bicycle operator's responsibility. I'm sure it depends on the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 A 13 year old should know better and it is his responsibility. If it was my kid, I would also tell them tough cookies. On the other hand, I do walk around my car every time I back up and if there are any children playing anywhere in the cul-de-sac when I am getting ready to back up, I warn them that I am getting ready to back up and I ask them to stand to the front and sides of my vehicle so that I can clearly see them while backing up. And then I still back up at about 1 mile per hour or slower. I also make my teens do the same thing. It is one of my OCD things. I am paranoid about accidently backing into a child. As a pedestrian, I also give wide berth to cars backing up. I have had to bang loudly on a car to avoid being hit before which might explain my fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 A 13 yr. old should know better than to leave a bike in the driveway BEHIND a car. It's a sad lesson to learn, but I don't believe the owner/driver of the SUV is responsible. However, this is exactly the reason I am always nervous about my kids playing outside and running up and down streets past driveways (especially with SUV's). People who own SUV's should surely always look behind their vehicle before backing it out - it would be almost impossible to see something that low to the ground - it could have been a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsrevmeg Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 My six year old was told repeatedly not to leave his bike out of the car port And make sure it was not behind the car. He parked it behind the church van. It got smashed. The van driver offered to replace it, but I said no because it was my son's fault. I do not think that your neighbor should be held responsible because some kid laid his bike in a dangerous spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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