squirtymomma Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 http://www.amazon.com/Trivium-Mastery-Intersection-Authentic-Classical/dp/1432733281/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239921212&sr=8-7 Sounds like a direct attack on SWB... here's the Amazon description: You may not know it, but you've been robbed. Classical Christian education, your rightful inheritance, has been stolen from you by educational bureaucrats. Generations of well-meaning parents and innocent children never received their intended bequest. However, the "new" method that is being popularized in the homeschooling community looks more like the public school paradigm than the original classical model. In her research, Diane discovered that the primary premise upon which this "neoclassical" method is based has no evidentiary support other than one woman's personal experience. Speculation and hearsay fuel the rumor that has become an urban legend. Countless home school parents labor under this burdensome method when they could be enjoying the simplicity of an authentic classical Christian home education by teaching three simple skill sets to mastery: Language, Critical Thinking, and Communication Exposition of errors, though, is not enough. Home school parents need practical instructions for turning the idea of a classical Christian home education into reality. Diane shows you exactly how to teach these three skills through 12 real-life case studies with children ranging in age from 5 to 17 years old. Using her "must-know" checklists, Diane develops customized strategic semester plans for each child, a to-do list for the parents, and a to-do list for the children. Use these personal "makeovers" as a guide to develop your own strategic plans. National leaders on two continents have been successfully trained by the classical method for over two thousand years. At this critical time in history, the common twelve-year educational paradigm cannot begin to prepare your children for the calling on their lives. Like Diane, you and your family can recover your inheritance. What are you waiting for? Come on! Is her interpretation of the classical model any more "authentic" than WTM?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 MEOW! Sounds a little catty to me, too! Also, I hate to say this because I have no proof, but the single review of the book sounds like the work of a shill to me. The reviewer has only posted this one review, and it's so incredibly glowing that it's a bit sickening. There is not even one slight criticism, which I find quite suspect. "Trivium Mastery" may or may not be a wonderful book, but I think they could have promoted it without bashing anyone else's hard work. I don't have time right now to do the "look inside" the book feature, but I will check it out later to see a sample of the author's writing style and to see if I agree with her ideas. Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 "Speculation and hearsay fuel the rumor that has become an urban legend." Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMCassandra Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 :tongue_smilie::rolleyes::thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think the two books seem very different. (having only just read the look inside feature and a quick google search.) WTM inspires me to challenge my children and myself by giving them a classical Christian education. This other book looks like it probably does that, too. However, WTM also gives you a very clear, concise, step by step plan of attack that is invaluable. I have read too many homeschooling books that are vague and therefore frustrating!! In addition, I continue to reference my well-thumbed thru copy of WTM because of the reviews of all the different curricula out there. Anyway, just a long winded way of saying that if there is another book that inspires people to a classical Christian education - Fantastic!! The more the merrier. They will most likely turn to WTM for specifics on how to actually start - and stay -on their journey. I do agree, though, that the marketing of it is catty. So sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennifersLost Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 So are we all part of the urban legend? "Legend has it that hundreds of women not only taught their children classically after being inspired by "The Well-Trained Mind", they actually banded together on an internet chat room and discussed their ups and downs.... "This multitude harassed the countryside, turning out thoughtful, educated children who wore nice shoes and had time to play outside... "Imagine the horror! Families that liked to spend time together! Parents that read aloud to their children! Mummified chickens! "Thankfully, it was only a legend...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So are we all part of the urban legend? It's kind of cool to think that I might be imaginary, and part of a legend to boot. And all this time, I've been stupid enough to pay all the bills that show up at my imaginary house. Go figure. Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://www.amazon.com/Trivium-Mastery-Intersection-Authentic-Classical/dp/1432733281/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239921212&sr=8-7 Sounds like a direct attack on SWB... here's the Amazon description: You may not know it, but you've been robbed. Classical Christian education, your rightful inheritance, has been stolen from you by educational bureaucrats. Generations of well-meaning parents and innocent children never received their intended bequest. However, the "new" method that is being popularized in the homeschooling community looks more like the public school paradigm than the original classical model. In her research, Diane discovered that the primary premise upon which this "neoclassical" method is based has no evidentiary support other than one woman's personal experience. Speculation and hearsay fuel the rumor that has become an urban legend. Countless home school parents labor under this burdensome method when they could be enjoying the simplicity of an authentic classical Christian home education by teaching three simple skill sets to mastery: Language, Critical Thinking, and Communication Exposition of errors, though, is not enough. Home school parents need practical instructions for turning the idea of a classical Christian home education into reality. Diane shows you exactly how to teach these three skills through 12 real-life case studies with children ranging in age from 5 to 17 years old. Using her "must-know" checklists, Diane develops customized strategic semester plans for each child, a to-do list for the parents, and a to-do list for the children. Use these personal "makeovers" as a guide to develop your own strategic plans. National leaders on two continents have been successfully trained by the classical method for over two thousand years. At this critical time in history, the common twelve-year educational paradigm cannot begin to prepare your children for the calling on their lives. Like Diane, you and your family can recover your inheritance. What are you waiting for? Come on! Is her interpretation of the classical model any more "authentic" than WTM?? Well, I don't know about authentic. Is that really even important? Authentic classical education would be delivered only to the males and only by a slave tutor. The historical records concerning methodologies are not plentiful nor consistent enough to define what is authentic in classical education. So that aside... I will say this description interests me in this phrase: Countless home school parents labor under this burdensome method when they could be enjoying the simplicity .... I admit that I do feel burdened by what I've come to realise is an excess of content suggested in WTM. Yes, they are only guidelines, and yes, they are flexible, but the mere impression of it all upon the page makes it feel like a mandate. It is very hard for some people (me) to let go of the rigour prescribed in WTM. In my heart I know that I want my son to have an excellent education, with excellent skills in reading, communication (oral & written), mathematics and Latin. On top of that I know I want him to appreciate science, history, music and art. Do we have to study these every day? WTM says mostly yes. So we plod along because you wouldn't want to go against WTM. Let's face it... we treat it and talk about it like it's a bible. In the end, it's up to each of us to take what we need from it and leave the rest alone, but sometimes that's hard for me. We (homeschoolers) are scrutinized, whether by media, community or even other family members, and that pressure is crushing at times. It can cause us to dig our heels in deeper and push harder and harder until our homeschool does start to look so tough-as-nails that we don't recognize it anymore. And our children... instead of inculcating a love for learning, we can drive them to loathe it -- the drill, the multiple language studies, the memorizations, the reading volumes and volumes of quality literature ad nauseum -- when all they really may need is the room to grow on their own, in each subject on its own, and the room to explore unaided, unpressured, unencumbered by our expectations and unspoken agendas. Forgive the ramble, but this is something that hit me recently like a fleet of Mac trucks. I am having to learn to let go -- of a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So are we all part of the urban legend? "Legend has it that hundreds of women not only taught their children classically after being inspired by "The Well-Trained Mind", they actually banded together on an internet chat room and discussed their ups and downs.... "This multitude harassed the countryside, turning out thoughtful, educated children who wore nice shoes and had time to play outside... "Imagine the horror! Families that liked to spend time together! Parents that read aloud to their children! Mummified chickens! "Thankfully, it was only a legend...." It's kind of cool to think that I might be imaginary, and part of a legend to boot. And all this time, I've been stupid enough to pay all the bills that show up at my imaginary house. Go figure. Cat Excellent! Then our work here is done. :D We. Are. Legend! Like the tv commercials demonstrating how incompetent people are in order to sell useless kitchen tools, I find any work whose description is a barely veiled snipe at somebody else's (with the exceptions of direct rebuttals, of course) suspect. The rubber-arm knife wielding does not inspire me to buy an "easier" chopper thing. Implying I'm a "burdened", ill-informed lemming does not inspire me to buy the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So we plod along because you wouldn't want to go against WTM. Let's face it... we treat it and talk about it like it's a bible. Well, I don't, but I know some people do; I guess strict adherence to the methods prescribed in WTM works beautifully for some families, and a somewhat more loosey-goosey approach works better for others. My only objection to the "Trivium Mastery" book has nothing to do with the book itself; for me, it's all about the, "you've been robbed" type of nastiness that's used in promoting it. Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well, I don't know about authentic. Is that really even important? Authentic classical education would be delivered only to the males and only by a slave tutor. The historical records concerning methodologies are not plentiful nor consistent enough to define what is authentic in classical education. So that aside... I will say this description interests me in this phrase: Countless home school parents labor under this burdensome method when they could be enjoying the simplicity .... I admit that I do feel burdened by what I've come to realise is an excess of content suggested in WTM. Yes, they are only guidelines, and yes, they are flexible, but the mere impression of it all upon the page makes it feel like a mandate. It is very hard for some people (me) to let go of the rigour prescribed in WTM. In my heart I know that I want my son to have an excellent education, with excellent skills in reading, communication (oral & written), mathematics and Latin. On top of that I know I want him to appreciate science, history, music and art. Do we have to study these every day? WTM says mostly yes. So we plod along because you wouldn't want to go against WTM. Let's face it... we treat it and talk about it like it's a bible. In the end, it's up to each of us to take what we need from it and leave the rest alone, but sometimes that's hard for me. We (homeschoolers) are scrutinized, whether by media, community or even other family members, and that pressure is crushing at times. It can cause us to dig our heels in deeper and push harder and harder until our homeschool does start to look so tough-as-nails that we don't recognize it anymore. And our children... instead of inculcating a love for learning, we can drive them to loathe it -- the drill, the multiple language studies, the memorizations, the reading volumes and volumes of quality literature ad nauseum -- when all they really may need is the room to grow on their own, in each subject on its own, and the room to explore unaided, unpressured, unencumbered by our expectations and unspoken agendas. Forgive the ramble, but this is something that hit me recently like a fleet of Mac trucks. I am having to learn to let go -- of a lot of things. I"m going to hi jack a bit here (sorry to OP) but.... Wow. You really hit the nail on the head for me. I am so thankful to WTM as it got me started down the homeschool path, and thankful for the boards that kept me going (and are still a great resource) however, being a bit of a control freak/perfectionist/defensive of my homeschooling beliefs person...ahem, I felt myself putting way way too much pressure on ME and my child. We were just mimicking public school rigors, rules and lessons. I stepped WAY back...and learned to let go ( a little at a time of course, because all at once would've flipped me out!) But part of the problem was I felt like I was letting some WTM ideal down. An ideal created by the book and boards and by people it works so well for! But the pressure was from ME, kwim? It was working GREAT for a lot of people, but not for us in every way. So I put it away as a mandate. As a Bible of how homeschool should look. I realized I can still appreciate and love WTM and it's concepts w/out religiously following. I don't know much about this other book and wasn't impressed with the single catty review either, but it may be worth perusing if just to get another viewpoint, you know? To see another take. Anyway, probably should've pm'ed you with this digression, Audrey, but you touched on something that hit true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You know, there's nothing really wrong with different approaches to classical education, but when you literally step on someone else's approach and work to elevate your own, your credibility is shot and you look insecure and immature. TWTM got me really started with homeschooling my son. The methods and suggested materials worked really well with him. For my daughter, she needs a bit of a different approach and LCC is the answer for her. And there's nothing wrong with that. When I talk to new homeschoolers, I lend them my TWTM, my Charlotte Mason Companion and refer them to Trivium Pursuit and now lately, LCC. They have to find what will resonate with them and what is doable for their own children and lifestyles. I'd not buy this Trivium Mastery book because instead of the author allowing her work to stand on its own and earn it's own respect and merit, she promotes it negatively by insulting others' takes on classical education, be it neo-classical or classical-classical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://www.classicalscholar.com/home-school-articles-archives Here is a link to the author's blog. From what I can tell on the amazon "search inside the book" feature, a lot of the book's chapters come from her blog articles. I read through some of the blog articles, and I must say that I still find SWB and JW's writing a lot clearer and a lot more reassuring to me about how to carry out a skilled education, in which my kids can grow up to be clear thinkers about a variety of subjects. SWB and JW go into a lot more detail, but in plain language, about how to do things like teach writing, or teach reading, etc.. I think of myself as carrying out most of the WTM principles, not every little directive, and as long as I keep principles in mind, and keep learning how to teach the next skill, I'll do the job I want to do with my kids - the job that WTM gave me a vision for. I'd be lost without WTM - that other book would not do me any good for the practicalities of how to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks for the link, Colleen! Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 It's kind of cool to think that I might be imaginary, and part of a legend to boot. Well alrighty then, I guess we can retire. Look what we've achieved! Unless all this is part of a master plan (rubbing hands together in glee)... to take over the world, turning out children/adults who can form coherent arguments, all while wielding only our copies of TWTM and our crock-pots. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 ooooooo, look, the funny tags have started..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Unless all this is part of a master plan (rubbing hands together in glee)... to take over the world, turning out children/adults who can form coherent arguments, all while wielding only our copies of TWTM and our crock-pots. :D It's an Evil Master Plan ... don't forget about the Evil part! :thumbup1: Cat (secretly wondering how an imaginary person like myself could be so hungry for Doritos right now. And not imaginary ones, either!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfside Academy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 This is totally off topic but I can't stop but envisioning the old MTV show "Celebrity Death Match" and a little claymation SWB giving this other author a good old fashioned beatdown! I don't know why because I never really watched the show...:lol: We all know that SWB is much to classy for that however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://www.amazon.com/Trivium-Mastery-Intersection-Authentic-Classical/dp/1432733281/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239921212&sr=8-7 here's the Amazon description: However, the "new" method that is being popularized in the homeschooling community looks more like the public school paradigm than the original classical model. Home school parents need practical instructions for turning the idea of a classical Christian home education into reality. My personal experience is that educating my kids with the WTM as my guide looks NOTHING like our local public schools. NOTHING. And I don't know much about the "original classical model," but I do know that my use of WTM is better than what the local p.s. could have given my kids as far as thinking skills. Also, WTM is the book that DID give me the practical instructions. I also wondered if the author has ever read anything Susan has written about when to ignore the WTM schedules (and why she wrote that) or how homeschooling really looks in her family life (messy and funny, like the rest of us, but effective when you keep the big picture in mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Sigh.... At least she could have said "two women's opinions." My poor mother. Ooh, or maybe she's attacking my mother and NOT me. That might make me even more indignant. (I mean, if I had enough energy.) Here's the publisher, in case anyone's interested: http://www.outskirtspress.com/ SWB Edited April 17, 2009 by Susan Wise Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sigh.... At least she could have said "two women's opinions." My poor mother. Ooh, or maybe she's attacking my mother and NOT me. That might make me even more indignant. (I mean, if I had enough energy.) Here's the publisher, in case anyone's interested: http://www.outskirtspress.com/ SWB I was interested! Swift googling led to the press release. I thought the following part (bolding mine) seemed obsessive, possibly to an unhealthy degree. I believe this paranoid tone combined with the self-publishing will ensure that no one takes this work seriously. "...the “new” classical method being popularized in the homeschooling community looked more like the public school paradigm than the original classical model. In my research, I discovered that the primary premise upon which the “new” classical method was based had no evidentiary support other than one woman’s personal experience. Speculation and hearsay fueled the rumor that soon became an urban legend. Armed with a new perspective, I decided that I wanted to reclaim our classical inheritance, but one major question loomed in my mind. How could it be done? Tweak. Tweak. Tweak. My home became a laboratory, and my children were the guinea pigs. In the midst of all the tweaking, I began to see that a true classical Christian education could be simply reduced to the acquisition of three major skills (language, thought, and speech), and that when those skills were substantially mastered, the kids would have the tools necessary to delve deeply into serious content like the adult classics and higher level sciences. Once I boiled it down to the essentials, the task no longer seemed so overwhelming. Fleshing it out in practice became an open vista of personal choices that mirrored our kids’ learning styles, passions, and abilities. Liberated from the urban legend, we were able to experience the freedom of a true classical Christian education. Exposition of errors, no matter how innocent or unintentional, is not enough. I learned as an auditor to report such aberrations to leaders who could adjust the course of action and ensure corrective measures. Therein lies the genesis of this book. You see, I just couldn’t sit on the truth about classical education and participate in the cover up. I am compelled to share the results of my open lab in the hope that you can confirm my findings. Let’s start an ongoing dialogue about the pragmatic application of a true classical model at home and recover our inheritance together." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) For reading, she lists sight words and phonics both, just like most schools. I've said before that one of the things that impressed me when I heard Jessie Wise speak was that not only did she focus on phonics, not sight words, but she knew the value of having no pictures. Edit: if you're wondering, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? or, must she bring phonics into everything? (yes.) The answer is--I know reading and phonics after tutoring for 16 years, so I evaluate whether or not someone knows what they're talking about by what they know about reading. Edited April 17, 2009 by ElizabethB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 She has an article on her blog that is specifically about "The Well Trained Mind" book. It says that it can be overwhelming but it doesn't totally trash it either. I only read a few of the articles. The ones I read (two on curriculum check-lists, one on reading and the one on SWB & TWTM) weren't bad but they were short on practical application. I would be interested in looking at her book if I could get it through the library (ie. free!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) At last ladies (and gents) a rallying point to which we can all say "Charge!" :D Remember the thread about what you would die for. Well as all my irl friends know, SWB your close. Don't mess with my hero.:tongue_smilie: Edited April 17, 2009 by newlifemom Akkkkk hideous spelling error! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sigh.... At least she could have said "two women's opinions." My poor mother. Ooh, or maybe she's attacking my mother and NOT me. That might make me even more indignant. (I mean, if I had enough energy.) SWB Not that I'm interested in buying it. The whole "urbran legend" thing strikes me as odd terminology frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 What I don't understand is how she calls her approach "Christian" but her marketing strategy is so unkind - definitely not Christlike, imo. I have no interest in anything she has to say. For me, she has invalidated her work by her lack of graciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 What I don't understand is how she calls her approach "Christian" but her marketing strategy is so unkind - definitely not Christlike, imo. I have no interest in anything she has to say. For me, she has invalidated her work by her lack of graciousness. :iagree: That's exactly what I was thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Could she be talking about Dorothy Sayers? That's what I thought, too. But I'm too lazy to go click through and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have no interest in anything she has to say. For me, she has invalidated her work by her lack of graciousness. Well said, Kathleen. I agree completely. Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Here's the publisher, in case anyone's interested: http://www.outskirtspress.com/ You know, I've always wanted to self-publish something. I've no idea what it would be, but I continue to think that it's possible to do so and not have the astonishing level of uncorrected errata which seems, if one considers the anecdotal evidence, to be de riguer in the world of self or vanity publishing. I cannot be the only one who wants to shriek when I find myself editing a book instead of reading it. Can I? (This has nothing to do with the book in question, which seems more like one woman's musings on her particular interpretation of classical ed and fascination with the same than a new or expository work. But it may in fact have zero errors.) Edited April 17, 2009 by Mama Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) After spotting this, I don't think she has TWTM in mind when talking about classical ed losing it's way... http://www.classicalscholar.com/midwest_homeschool_convention_susan_wise_bauer Erm. Or not. http://www.classicalscholar.com/classical-home-education-susan-bauer Ooookay then. ??? http://www.classicalscholar.com/why-the-well-trained-mind-will-cause-you-to-fail http://www.classicalscholar.com/shaky-speculation-the-lost-tools-of-learning#comments So I'll just say what we're all thinking: What? Really? Edited April 17, 2009 by Mama Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 That's what I thought too -- the "one woman" is Dorothy Sayers, not SWB. Now that does leave WTM as part of the rumor/urban legend of what classical schooling is, lol... Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinmom Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 What I don't understand is how she calls her approach "Christian" but her marketing strategy is so unkind - definitely not Christlike, imo. I have no interest in anything she has to say. For me, she has invalidated her work by her lack of graciousness. I am in complete agreement with this! Even if she did have something good to say, I'd not purchase her book. If you need to attack another to elevate yourself and your ideas, I don't believe you've thought through your argument well enough to support it adequately. Not to mention the "not so Christ-like" part, which is so much more important...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I too assumed she meant Sayers. Anyway, I just have to say that I loved this line in the book's description: National leaders on two continents have been successfully trained by the classical method for over two thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highereducation Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Without addressing the effectiveness of whatever this woman's method might entail, my immediate reaction to what was written on Amazon was this: What better way for a new author to be noticed than to make a somewhat vague but snarky statement about what already exists in the marketplace? Of course she needs to say her way is better. She wants to sell her book. I read the sample pages on Amazon and my reaction to them was meh. Frankly, I don't care for the way she writes, and the front lawn scenario at the beginning of her book annoyed me. I don't want cutesy imagery, I want the meat and potatoes of how to give my child the classical education I didn't get myself. TWTM manages to do exactly that, and more. I'm in no way a perfect parent or a perfect educator. I've tried several ambitious things with dd's education that I felt would really enrich things, only to have them not work at all. Over the last two years, I've come to understand that it's a process. Every child is different, every child will respond differently. We all have our good days and our bad days. My job as dd's teacher is to find what works for her and build on that. Having TWTM as a guide has enabled me to stick to a basic plan, and at the same time tailor it to dd's strengths and weaknesses. I'm not trashing this lady or her book, but IMO, it would be very hard for anyone to come up with anything as comprehensive and well-written as TWTM. One last thought - this woman's marketing strategy may well come back to bite her on the backside. Once she pitted herself against other authors, that tends to make people form opinions. Had she simply put her book out there, people would have checked it out on its merit alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) nevermind, I misread something. Edited April 17, 2009 by Colleen in NS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sigh.... At least she could have said "two women's opinions." My poor mother. Ooh, or maybe she's attacking my mother and NOT me. That might make me even more indignant. (I mean, if I had enough energy.) I thought she did mean your mother and I did get indignant! I highly value your mother's experience and all that came from it. Furthermore, I think I read somewhere else that you both did a lot of research for WTM, so I don't think of WTM as based on just one person's experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So.....how do we figure out who the "one woman" with the experience is, that the author referred to - SWB, JW, or Dorothy Sayers? Anyone want to go ask the author? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 If a book is written by a person (in a forest) with no credentials, and no one reads it (and it falls to the ground), does it make a sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Anj, I like you. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Here is what I don't get~and again, I feel this woman has a right to her book/opinion~but: In my research, I discovered that the primary premise upon which the “new†classical method was based had no evidentiary support other than one woman’s personal experience. AND THEN: "...Tweak. My home became a laboratory, and my children were the guinea pigs. In the midst of all the tweaking, I began to see that a true classical Christian education could be simply reduced to the acquisition of three major skills...." So....another woman's (who shall be nameless)experience is called valueless, but you tweaked and we are to read and believe YOUR experience as more valid. Not following. Again, maybe this book and it's methods will work better for some (maybe even me..) but so far the writing is confusing me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, basically, what she tried to do wasn't working for her, so she did a little research and tweaked her curriculum until it fit her family. On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So....another woman's (who shall be nameless)experience is called valueless, but you tweaked and we are to read and believe YOUR experience as more valid. Not following. That is exactly what I thought. As far as the "classical method"- I don't know anyone who believes they are duplicating the way people were taught back in ancient Rome or something. I mean, why would anyone really want to do that in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jami Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, basically, what she tried to do wasn't working for her, so she did a little research and tweaked her curriculum until it fit her family. On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? :lol::lol: Indeed. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highereducation Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, basically, what she tried to do wasn't working for her, so she did a little research and tweaked her curriculum until it fit her family. On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? Mine should be out next week.:D I just read an excellent article that a gentleman wrote for my local paper in which he bemoaned the glut of "writing" that has flooded the internet. His point was that journalists and authors work years to perfect their craft, yet today, everyone is a "writer" and everyone thinks they have something important to say. (Which they may, but still...) He feels that in such an oversized pool of submissions, the good stuff is getting lost and overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? Well, I didn't want to mention it, but I will be releasing " The Classically Eclectically Rigorously Relaxed Montessori Waldorf-Inspired Charlotte Mason Unschooling Approach: The Only Way To Homeschool" in 2010. I believe Amazon will be carrying it if they can fit the title. I'm sure it will speak to all those that tried one woman's method and needed it tweaked by another woman because they couldn't really understand how to tweak it themselves. Aw, now, really, I'm being catty. And I'm sure Trivium Mastery has helped many with her method. We need variety, we need to be inspired, all of us. But I just tweaked WTM to my own needs and figured that's what works for us. Writing a book for homeschoolers would be difficult because it's like parenting. We all do it a little bit the same but a lot different depending on our child and our belief system. We pick and choose what works for us. That's why I find it odd that this woman is trying to stand out as a spin off of WTM. But you know, I think as homeschooling marches forward and more join the ranks, we'll find more and more books trying to guide homeschoolers. And that is pretty cool! Let's just hope they are a bit kinder in touting their wares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, basically, what she tried to do wasn't working for her, so she did a little research and tweaked her curriculum until it fit her family. On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? I've been wracking my brain all day trying to figure out how to get a corner in the homeschool market. I can't think of any aspect of homeschooling, whether of philosophy or materials, that is left for me to re-package. Too bad. I could use the money. Haven't we nearly hit saturation level? Off the top of my head, I can list the following philosophy-meets-practicality offerings for the homeschooler: The Well Trained Mind Charlotte Mason Heart of Wisdom Teaching the Trivium Great Books Thomas Jefferson Education The NOAH Plan Robinson Curriculum Sonlight Winter Promise Tapestry of Grace Heart of Dakota Beautiful Feet BJU or Abeka, Calvert What a variety of wisdom and experience! I'm thankful for so many pioneers, from John Holt to John Holzmann. Charlotte Mason and Susan Wise Bauer sit side by side in my mind and estimation. But when will we consider ourselves learned enough to teach our own? Do we really need another book that lays it all out for us? Or do we need to ignore some of these voices of people who want our money? There comes a time when we need to stop letting ourselves be exploited as the curriculum junkies we love to be. There comes a time to quit talking about homeschooling and actually knuckle down and do it. The perfect curriculum does not exist. Surely we all know that by now! I think we need to say as much to the new homeschoolers who are falling prey to a thousand opinions. I have met several very young mothers on message boards who are the epitome of homeschoolers who volunteer to have their wallets lightened. Their children are younger than seven years old, yet they own three science programs, 4 complete history programs, an assortment of math materials, language arts of every philosophy and type...for K-12. Homeschooling can be hard. This tweaking that Mrs. Lockman mentions is homeschooling. Success is not defined by using curriculum that requires no discernment or effort. When we flit from plan to plan, looking for something that teaches itself, we are wasting our time and confusing our children. Success is defined by having the courage and persistence to teach our children well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So, basically, what she tried to do wasn't working for her, so she did a little research and tweaked her curriculum until it fit her family. On that basis, why don't all the rest of us have books out? LOL!!!! I'm going to write the book "Obsessive Compulsive Chart Making in the Trivium" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 LOL!!!! I'm going to write the book "Obsessive Compulsive Chart Making in the Trivium" Mine will be called "Educating the next generation of active learners or how to read while bouncing on an exercise ball" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 LOL!!!! I'm going to write the book "Obsessive Compulsive Chart Making in the Trivium" Oh, oh!! (raising hand and waving wildly) May I write a chapter? I'd like to title it "Color coding success in Excel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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