Homeschool failure - a discussion

[Alaska Mom]

So with the new year on us, how about a serious discussion:

 

In your experience, your observation of others, or whatever, what do YOU really think makes it or breaks it for home schoolers? What makes some highly successful and others fail (and how do you define failure)? Are there common characteristics, attributes or behaviors for those that are successful and for those who fail?

Happy new year btw :party:!

Edited January 1, 2009 by Alaska Mom

[elizam]

I will answer your question with a question:

 

What constitutes failure???

 

Is it really failure just because someone else thinks it is?

 

Just food for thought. I always get upset reading these threads and doubt this time will be any different.

[beansprouts]

The ones that I have seen give up on homeschooling are just too uptight. Homeschooling requires some flexibility, the ability to "go with the flow" to some extent and adjust our goals and methods as our children grow and their needs change.

[Aggie]

What I've noticed is that home educating comes right down to parenting. If parenting is weak, the education is weak.

 

Of course, that could be said of any education, not just home education, right? If parents aren't parenting, chances of academic success are low. Not impossible, but low. :001_smile:

[lmrich]

I think failing is not trying to do what is best for each child- if you stop homeschooling because your child is better served by another schooling - that is not failing; that is success. I think failing is a take off on the expression - if you do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result....

 

Homeschooling is successful when families are honest with what they are accomplishing. Everything changes, every kid is different, every year is different and as a homeschooler you must accept that. Failure is not giving up; failure is not meeting your goals (I also think it is not having goals, but I am a little goal fixated)

[Susie in CA]

Failure is a tough word to use. I don't know that I would call anything failure really, just things I don't agree with for us.

 

What I see a lot is inconsistency. I would say this is the biggest challenge in homeschooling. We have so much freedom to decide what to do, what to study, even if to study at all. This freedom is homeschoolings biggest asset but it is also its greatest challenge. With great freedom comes great responsiblity.....

 

Susie

[Miss Marple]

I don't know that one can necessarily call any form of schooling a failure. What I see as academic failure on the part of a student may be seen as reasonable performance by the family involved. But those who have students graduate from high school with a level of academic achievement which allows the student to pursue a reasonable college career seem to have the following characteristics in common:

 

1. Parents who are motivated themselves. I know of several families who assume their kids will go to college, but the parents don't model a good work ethic and allow fun/family to intrude into the school time. These kids have tried college courses but have given up because "...it requires too much time" to do well.

 

2. The schooling parent is oftentimes known as a tyrant :001_rolleyes:. She keeps up with her kids' work, knows where they are academically, will sit and teach when necessary (usually with younger kids), corrects papers, insures that students learn from mistakes, and considers schooling her top priority for the day (i.e., her job).

 

3. Curriculum that isn't necessarily easy. I hear all too often that this curriculum or that "makes my child cry". We need to teach our children to do hard things, to take risks, to do their finest work. Many kids know that crying or 'stressing' causes mom enough stress so that she will reduce academic requirements. Of course, one needs to be reasonable and design the academic program around each child's needs/strengths/weaknesses.

 

4. And the end of #3 requires a parent to do some research. The most "successful" parents I've known have researched curricula and learning styles, developed an academic strategy for each child, and worked to see that the student was successful.

 

All this to say that an involved and committed parent is the most important aspect of a homeschooling family, IMO.

 

*Disclaimer: I'm sure there are many children out there who are self motivated and will be successful in spite of the parent's lack of involvement. I just don't know any.

 

 

''The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it''. Michelangelo

[Audrey]

The ones that I have seen give up on homeschooling are just too uptight. Homeschooling requires some flexibility, the ability to "go with the flow" to some extent and adjust our goals and methods as our children grow and their needs change.

 

Absolutely! Few human beings can thrive creatively, intellectually or emotionally in a rigid structural framework. I cannot count the number of overcontrolling dictatorial homeschoolers that I've seen crash and burn over the years just on this board alone. At some point, it all goes south. The ones that have been here a long time and still have uplifting attitudes about hsing are the ones who see the value in flexibility.

 

What I've noticed is that home educating comes right down to parenting. If parenting is weak, the education is weak.

 

Of course, that could be said of any education, not just home education, right? If parents aren't parenting, chances of academic success are low. Not impossible, but low. :001_smile:

 

True... but I think we'll all have different ideas of what makes a good parent. ;)

 

...

 

What I see a lot is inconsistency. I would say this is the biggest challenge in homeschooling. We have so much freedom to decide what to do, what to study, even if to study at all. This freedom is homeschoolings biggest asset but it is also its greatest challenge. With great freedom comes great responsiblity.....

 

Susie

 

Yes... keeping consistent is the biggest challenge. I'm working off-farm AND at home and am the homeschooling mom on top of that. It would be so easy for me to say "no school today. I've other work/jobs to do." But I can't and I won't -- because my first committment was to that little boy.

 

 

Lastly, I would say that to be successful in homeschooling you have to be doing it for the child. It has to be about what is best for the child -- not about what you want, but about what they need. Sometimes, that even means putting that child in ps someday. I don't call that a homeschooling failure though. I call it a parent being successful for their child.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Audrey

[Mari]

I think this is a good topic to discuss for those of us adjusting our goals for the new year. I've been thinking about this for awhile actually, in response to other people questioning my choice to homeschool. A big problem is that we live in an instant gratification society. We want immediate answers to big questions like this when the rewards may not be evident until farther down the road. You know, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

The answer will depend on whatever goal/standards you set for your children. In my case, first and foremost, it's not how smart my kids are or will become or what jobs and earning potential they will have, but whether they walk right with the Lord and are able to one day enter Heaven. Along the way, though, I want to raise my children to become productive citizens of the world. Again, it's not only about academics, but about preparing their hearts for service for others above themselves. Likewise, I want to stand in God's judgement one day and know He was pleased with my efforts in raising these children to know, love, and serve Him.

 

I chose to homeschool because I believe this educational path will help achieve these goals. The minute I believe we're off track somewhere, I will stop and evaluate my choices. If my children are not learning what they need to meet these goals or prepare them to live in the world, then I have no problem adjusting the course or finding outside sources to help. It may be that I have to hire a tutor or perhaps enroll them somewhere else altogether. I don't consider that to be failure, though, just a change in plans.

 

So I've made this longer than it needs to be but I think basically some homeschoolers don't have set goals for themselves when they begin and perhaps they throw in the towel to early because they don't have an idea or definition of what they consider "success" to be. Also, I've seen many homeschoolers are led by their own pride in choosing to homeschool that they refuse to adjust course when it is painfully obvious they ought to.

 

--Mari

Edited January 1, 2009 by Mari
I needed to clarify my point.

[chaik76]

The ones that I have seen give up on homeschooling are just too uptight. Homeschooling requires some flexibility, the ability to "go with the flow" to some extent and adjust our goals and methods as our children grow and their needs change.

Do you really think that is true? We're putting our oldest in school after Christmas break. My problem was not too little flexibility, but too much. He needs more structure and organization than I'm able to give him at this time.

 

I live in an area rife with homeschoolers. Just hundreds and hundreds (or more) of them. I've only known one who put her child back in school. She pulled her only school-age child out after he had a terrible illness and teachers were unsupportive (the illness resulted in short- and long-term memory loss for the little boy). In her case, I think she just didn't realize what homeschooling entailed, and she enrolled in a public charter without realizing the time commitment that entailed (she enrolled littles that didn't need reported yet, too). Now, I'm not one that has a problem with public charters as long as you understand what they are, but in this case she didn't.

 

For me, I don't consider enrolling my son in a brick and mortar to be a failure. We always planned to choose the best school choice for each child. Ds7 was definitely not capable of dealing with a brick and mortar before this year, but right now is the time when he needs to be there. It would be selfish of me not to enroll him right now, for many reasons. We will still afterschool and summer school. We will re-evaluate after this semester is over, and we still plan to homeschool the baby.

 

What is failure? Is it failure to meet goals? Whose goals? Is it failure to produce "upstanding" kids? What?

 

ETA: It might be important to add that we homeschool to achieve academic excellence. Although religion is a huge part of both our schooling and our life, it did not determine our choice to homeschool, or to put ds into a brick and mortar. Our son, academically, is ahead of his peers, and meeting his potential in most areas. In this regard, our homeschooling has been successful.

Edited January 1, 2009 by chaik76

[Mesa]

For me the families that I see as failing are the ones that dont school. Their not unschoolers, they simply dont do school... ever. I think it's a parenting issue really. The parents simply dont care.

For me, I will give my kids my best. I want them to succeed. I want them to love learning. I know my kids will do well no matter where they go to school because, I as their parent will see to that.

For me it's a schedule... with yearly, and or monthly goals. It helps me know what I need to teach if I have an idea of where we are going.

[Plucky]

Do you really think that is true? We're putting our oldest in school after Christmas break. My problem was not too little flexibility, but too much. He needs more structure and organization than I'm able to give him at this time.

 

 

 

But not being able to meet your 7 year old needs isn't being flexible. Being flexible is seeing each child you have and challenging them right where they are at, whether that's gifted, average, or LD. It's not for the wimpy. I don't think sending a kid to school is failing at homeschool either. Make sure it's a **** good school though.

 

Children 7 and 8 or under don't need that much time homeschooling. A morning does it or less. I think too many moms burn themselves out before homeschooling really gets challenging, during middle/high school.

[WTMCassandra]

I think this is a good topic to discuss for those of us adjusting our goals for the new year. I've been thinking about this for awhile actually, in response to other people questioning my choice to homeschool. A big problem is that we live in an instant gratification society. We want immediate answers to big questions like this when the rewards may not be evident until farther down the road. You know, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

The answer will depend on whatever goal/standards you set for your children. In my case, first and foremost, it's not how smart my kids are or will become or what jobs and earning potential they will have, but whether they walk right with the Lord and are able to one day enter Heaven. Along the way, though, I want to raise my children to become productive citizens of the world. Again, it's not only about academics, but about preparing their hearts for service for others above themselves. Likewise, I want to stand in God's judgement one day and know He was pleased with my efforts in raising these children to know, love, and serve Him.

 

I chose to homeschool because I believe this educational path will help achieve these goals. The minute I believe we're off track somewhere, I will stop and evaluate my choices. If my children are not learning what they need to meet these goals or prepare them to live in the world, then I have no problem adjusting the course or finding outside sources to help. It may be that I have to hire a tutor or perhaps enroll them somewhere else altogether. I don't consider that to be failure, though, just a change in plans.

 

So I've made this longer than it needs to be but I think basically some homeschoolers don't have set goals for themselves when they begin and perhaps they throw in the towel to early because they don't have an idea or definition of what they consider "success" to be. Also, I've seen many homeschoolers are led by their own pride in choosing to homeschool that they refuse to adjust course when it is painfully obvious they ought to.

 

--Mari

 

Yah, what SHE said! My goals for my children are much the same. Spiritual goals are paramount, and educational goals dovetail with them.

 

I define homeschooling failure as people pretending to homeschool while truly neglecting their children (as opposed to legitimate unschooling). A 10yo who isn't reading just because Mom hasn't gotten around to it is waaaay different IMHO than a 10yo not reading whose Mom is actively monitoring, gives reading instruction a try every few months to see if things have clicked, and who finds other ways to provide a language-rich environment (audiobooks, reading aloud, etc.).

 

This is a good discussion! Thanks for opening this topic.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've only known one family that "failed" homeschooling. But to be honest they had failed family life. In the end, the state came in and took away the kids. The kids were not schooled at all the last few years but that was just a symptom of their whole life falling apart.

[WTMCassandra]

That is really sad.

[chaik76]

But not being able to meet your 7 year old needs isn't being flexible. Being flexible is seeing each child you have and challenging them right where they are at, whether that's gifted, average, or LD. It's not for the wimpy. I don't think sending a kid to school is failing at homeschool either. Make sure it's a **** good school though.

 

Children 7 and 8 or under don't need that much time homeschooling. A morning does it or less. I think too many moms burn themselves out before homeschooling really gets challenging, during middle/high school.

Perhaps our definitions of flexibility vary. I think part of the reason that homeschooling is not a good option for us right now is that you're right...homeschooling a young child takes up a morning or less. My son needs constant interaction (I don't want to get into a debate on this), constant supervision, constant things to do, constant attention. I cannot constantly (there's that word again) attend to him, as well as attend to the baby, homeschool, keep house, and do all of the other things that need done.

 

You have to have great organizational skills to homeschool. I don't. I have in the past, I might in the future, but I don't right now.

 

My view of the school system might be different than yours, too. I find all school choices to be equally valid (okay, most). So, while we chose not to use our regular public school (which is not academically challenging), we will be using a charter school within our school district. It's not perfect. It's very, very good. Yes, they use some curricula that I'm not that fond of. But...they are able to do what I am not right now.

 

When homeschooling becomes challenging is, I think, a matter of opinion. For some, small children (whether parenting or schooling) are far more challenging than middlers or high schoolers.

 

I think failure is choosing to do what's not best for your children. So, if I continue to homeschool my son, and that's not best for him...well, then I'm failing him. If a parent chooses a brick and mortar for "convenience" and that's not the best choice for that child, then they are failing their child there.

 

What's a **** good school? How does one determine that? My ideas of an excellent school (or homeschool) are determined by what's best for my children...I would assume yours are determined by what's best for yours. What are your criteria?

Edited January 1, 2009 by chaik76

[Brindee]

 

I think failing is not trying to do what is best for each child- if you stop homeschooling because your child is better served by another schooling - that is not failing; that is success. I think failing is a take off on the expression - if you do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result....

:iagree: Yes, doing what is best for each child is important....

[WTMCassandra]

Offtopic to Chaik76:

 

In your sig: "We still consider Pluto a planet."

 

I had to LOL when I saw that. My son is still quite indignant over the whole thing and insists that Pluto is still a planet. Thanks for putting that in your sig!

[chaik76]

Offtopic to Chaik76:

 

In your sig: "We still consider Pluto a planet."

 

I had to LOL when I saw that. My son is still quite indignant over the whole thing and insists that Pluto is still a planet. Thanks for putting that in your sig!

:lol:

 

One of my friends is just horrified that we still consider this a planet!

[Plucky]

Perhaps our definitions of flexibility vary. I think part of the reason that homeschooling is not a good option for us right now is that you're right...homeschooling a young child takes up a morning or less. My son needs constant interaction (I don't want to get into a debate on this), constant supervision, constant things to do, constant attention. I cannot constantly (there's that word again) attend to him, as well as attend to the baby, homeschool, keep house, and do all of the other things that need done.

 

You have to have great organizational skills to homeschool. I don't. I have in the past, I might in the future, but I don't right now.

 

My view of the school system might be different than yours, too. I find all school choices to be equally valid (okay, most). So, while we chose not to use our regular public school (which is not academically challenging), we will be using a charter school within our school district. It's not perfect. It's very, very good. Yes, they use some curricula that I'm not that fond of. But...they are able to do what I am not right now.

 

When homeschooling becomes challenging is, I think, a matter of opinion. For some, small children (whether parenting or schooling) are far more challenging than middlers or high schoolers.

 

I think failure is choosing to do what's not best for your children. So, if I continue to homeschool my son, and that's not best for him...well, then I'm failing him. If a parent chooses a brick and mortar for "convenience" and that's not the best choice for that child, then they are failing their child there.

 

What's a **** good school? How does one determine that? My ideas of an excellent school (or homeschool) are determined by what's best for my children...I would assume yours are determined by what's best for yours. What are your criteria?

 

 

Oh, dear I came off judgmental didn't I? I really wasn't judging you. I was just rambling about what flexibility means to me and how I see so many homeschooling their little ones for so many hours of the day. Just a general vent. :001_smile:

 

I love homeschooling elementary ages now that I don't have babies and toddlers. The first time around I had 3 under 3 and and my 6 year old and that was very tough. So I do understand a little what you're talking about, especially with a busy boy. My youngest boy screamed for the first 3 years of his life and couldn't communicate. I literally didn't leave the house unless dh was there. Fun times. LOL

 

I'm not anti-school. I am pro-homeschooling but we have some great private schools here. I've been tempted many, many times by them. I wish we had charter schools here. I love educational choices. The more the better.

 

I think a good school is one that meets my child's needs and I can afford. Right now, for my family it's homeschooling. I don't expect every family to homeschool or even want to. Being so involved in your son's education already is a good indicator that you will be overseeing his education with a knowing eye and that's a good thing! I wish you luck and happiness in your journey.

[Alaska Mom]

:lurk5:!

 

Very interesting reading.

 

For me, failure is not meeting my goals that I've set for myself. Right now, with young ones, failure to me would also be allowing myself to burn-out. As I look into the future, I honestly don't know how I will define success (or failure). I certainly don't think it's failure to send dc to ps (although other observers may). Others here I think have defined it quite well. Thanks for the discussion.

[lulubelle]

A major part of success in homeschooling seems like having a close family. Children getting along and parents involved in the process and growing together as a family. That is very challenging and constant. It goes against the grain. I think if you start feeling like the family is crumbling for some reason and there is more destruction of relationships going on - it's a good time to hang in the towel and ask for help.

[Journey]

Wow, once again, I ask myself why I even come on this board. Trying to get encouragement from some of you is really hard. We've been homeschooling for 6 years and after the Christmas break my daughter is going to school. Why? Not because I've been a failure as a homeschooling parent or a failure as a parent (as someone on here has eluded to) but because she is simply smarter than I am. I'm a single mom with absolutely no help in the area of homeschooling. Oh yeah, lots and LOTS of people offerered to help when my kids were younger and school was easier but where are they now? You're guess is as good as mine. I've been holding my very bright daughter back. She yearns to learn and what she needs to learn in order to go on to college, I can't teach her. I don't consider myself or my homeschool a failure. What it has taught my daughter, besides academics, is how to be a confident leader, a mature 14 year old who makes some adults look foolish because of her maturity level. As I've always told my friends (homeschoolers and public schoolers) homeschooling is a very personal, family by family choice and whatever choice a particular family decides to make is nobody's business.

[beansprouts]

Do you really think that is true? We're putting our oldest in school after Christmas break. My problem was not too little flexibility, but too much. He needs more structure and organization than I'm able to give him at this time.

 

I actually had some specific instances in mind when I posted this. One woman pulled her child out of school, and homeschooled for a few months. For her it was a disaster. Her dd wouldn't do the work, my suspicion is she was trying to follow a curriculum that wasn't right for her. She was just too plain worried about crossing all the "t's" and doing everything exactly right. She was so worried about messing up her child's schooling, that she didn't give herself enough time to figure it out.

 

I do not think flexibility and structure are mutually exclusive. Flexibility means the ability to switch gears if a curriculum isn't working for you. It means being able to modify lesson plans instead of being a slave to them. It means the child can work at different grade levels for different subjects. It can also mean knowing when another form of schooling may work better for a time.

 

In our homeschool, we are pretty structured. We pretty much cover the entire "WTM menu" for 5th graders including two languages, music study and art classes for the two oldest children. Yet we have flexibility in that if dd gets excited about science or the Greeks and wants to spend extra time studying, I don't mind missing math that day. Basically, I make homeschooling work for us.

 

 

For me, I don't consider enrolling my son in a brick and mortar to be a failure. We always planned to choose the best school choice for each child. Ds7 was definitely not capable of dealing with a brick and mortar before this year, but right now is the time when he needs to be there. It would be selfish of me not to enroll him right now, for many reasons. We will still afterschool and summer school. We will re-evaluate after this semester is over, and we still plan to homeschool the baby.

 

I don't either. I have another friend who enrolled all five of her children in public school after homeschooling for ten years. She says that she always worried about not "getting everything done" until she saw how little the kids actually accomplished in school. I think she realises now how successful her homeschooling actually was. However, as she said "for everything there is a season", and right now for various reasons, public schooling is the right choice for her family.

 

What is failure? Is it failure to meet goals? Whose goals? Is it failure to produce "upstanding" kids? What?

 

That is a good question. I have been hesitant to use the word "failure" for this reason. Instead I responded to what I believe was the intended question of the OP.

 

ETA: It might be important to add that we homeschool to achieve academic excellence. Although religion is a huge part of both our schooling and our life, it did not determine our choice to homeschool, or to put ds into a brick and mortar. Our son, academically, is ahead of his peers, and meeting his potential in most areas. In this regard, our homeschooling has been successful.

 

The same is true for us. I am confident in my ability to parent my children and build their faith even in an adversarial environment (in fact sometimes that is better....) I have looked at schools, and I simply can not find one that would teach my 9 year old the things she learns at home.

Edited January 1, 2009 by beansprouts

[beansprouts]

When homeschooling becomes challenging is, I think, a matter of opinion. For some, small children (whether parenting or schooling) are far more challenging than middlers or high schoolers.?

 

My biggest challenge so far is schooling with a toddler...

[Alaska Mom]

Thanks everyone for your posts. And to Journey, I'm still trying to figure out how to post here without offending anyone (sorry for any "discouragement" to you :grouphug:).

 

I'm new at this and I come here for support and discussion too. I would consider myself negligent if I were not evaluating and refining my personal definition of success/failure in this endeavor. I don't know what "failure" is, nor success yet, I'm just figuring it out. Is success the two families I know who have dc on full-ride scholarships at the schools of their choice? Maybe to some that's success, to others there's other ways of defining success. And what is failure? I personally need to have a definition so I'll recognize when there's a need to change the plan (or my definition). And once you define it all, what attributes get you there? That's all I'm trying to figure out.

 

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Wow, once again, I ask myself why I even come on this board. Trying to get encouragement from some of you is really hard. We've been homeschooling for 6 years and after the Christmas break my daughter is going to school. Why? Not because I've been a failure as a homeschooling parent or a failure as a parent (as someone on here has eluded to) but because she is simply smarter than I am.

 

I would say that your homeschool has been an enormous success then! Many, many people only homeschool for the younger years and then put them in school. Those kids go to school more connected to their parents than peers and are able to resist peer pressure much better than kids that have been in PS the whole time. Congrats! :D

[Alaska Mom]

I would say that your homeschool has been an enormous success then! Many, many people only homeschool for the younger years and then put them in school. Those kids go to school more connected to their parents than peers and are able to resist peer pressure much better than kids that have been in PS the whole time. Congrats! :D

 

 

:iagree:!

[Tami]

The commonality I have seen among successful homeschoolers is pure commitment to hard work.

 

Pitfalls I have seen with unsuccessful homeschoolers is lack of commitment to their homeschool, and mothers expecting that they wont have to do any teaching. The unsuccessful ones don't seem to value education or excellence. This is going to sound harsh, but they seem to value comfort and ease in education. They think that Johnny, age 5, should be totally independent so that they can get their house totally cleaned, that Sunday School class planned, and the strudel baked while he does school "on his own." They are not interested in educating themselves, or learning to teach. They also seem to think that everything has to be fun and when HSing gets tough, they procrastinate, don't provide instruction or materials, and just "don't get to it."

 

Successful homeschoolers make this business of education a calling, a commitment, and ultimately, a success!

 

EDIT -- By "unsuccessful homeschoolers" I mean homeschoolers who continue HSing year after year, and their kids are not being well-educated due to poor teaching practices, commitment to other things, procrastination.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Tami

[at the beach]

What I've noticed is that home educating comes right down to parenting. If parenting is weak, the education is weak.

 

Of course, that could be said of any education, not just home education, right? If parents aren't parenting, chances of academic success are low. Not impossible, but low. :001_smile:

:iagree:

[G5052]

In your experience, your observation of others, or whatever, what do YOU really think makes it or breaks it for home schoolers? What makes some highly successful and others fail (and how do you define failure)? Are there common characteristics, attributes or behaviors for those that are successful and for those who fail?

 

First I'll say that success is something that each family should determine on their own. Every child is different, and every family's goals are different. My children are very capable, and we have not dealt at all with any learning or physical disabilities. Our goals are high. So indeed, I push them harder than many do, but they are capable of that and DH and I want that. Friends of ours have children with more challenges. Our homeschooling relatives have a different standard than we do. And that's fine.

 

So I would define failure as a homeschool that fails to adjust to the child's capabilities and that fails to meet the parents' goals, assuming that they are reasonable. It's a lot of responsibility to be in charge of a child's education, and frankly some parents are occupied with other issues when they're homeschooling. Sometimes laziness and pride get in the way, but sometimes an illness and/or work pressures can be an issue to. Successful homeschoolers have to do what it takes, period.

 

I always dreamed of homeschooling ala WTM all the way through high school, and I could have done that because of having had a somewhat classical education myself and having gone to good colleges. That dream was dashed some four years ago though when DH's major health problems started, and I no longer have the time to implement that type of education. So we'll be largely delegating to a one-day-a-week program for 7th and up with the option of doing correspondence classes if that doesn't work out. Public school is not an option that we want, and we cannot afford private school. My household duties are increasing and I need to work more. So a hard adjustment had to be made, and we'll keep going. That's what successful homeschoolers have to do.

 

:001_smile:

[elizam]

The ones that I have seen give up on homeschooling are just too uptight. Homeschooling requires some flexibility, the ability to "go with the flow" to some extent and adjust our goals and methods as our children grow and their needs change.

 

I agree. In my experience, they often think that they have to start at 8 am sharp, do each subject for a specific amount of time, do the exact # of activities and pages the TM tells them to, and it usually has to be a certain curriculum, with no deviations.

[chaik76]

Oh, dear I came off judgmental didn't I? I really wasn't judging you. I was just rambling about what flexibility means to me and how I see so many homeschooling their little ones for so many hours of the day. Just a general vent. :001_smile:

 

I love homeschooling elementary ages now that I don't have babies and toddlers. The first time around I had 3 under 3 and and my 6 year old and that was very tough. So I do understand a little what you're talking about, especially with a busy boy. My youngest boy screamed for the first 3 years of his life and couldn't communicate. I literally didn't leave the house unless dh was there. Fun times. LOL

 

I'm not anti-school. I am pro-homeschooling but we have some great private schools here. I've been tempted many, many times by them. I wish we had charter schools here. I love educational choices. The more the better.

 

I think a good school is one that meets my child's needs and I can afford. Right now, for my family it's homeschooling. I don't expect every family to homeschool or even want to. Being so involved in your son's education already is a good indicator that you will be overseeing his education with a knowing eye and that's a good thing! I wish you luck and happiness in your journey.

Thanks! I probably took your comments too seriously...a homeschooler putting a child in school around here is considered a failure, no matter the circumstances.

 

We're very lucky that this charter school was available...the other school choices in our area (private and charter) just aren't tenable.

[Michelle T]

I'd say a "homeschool failure" is a child who graduates unable to do even basic academic activities. Usually due to a parent who didn't bother teaching these things.

 

Deciding to send the kids to PS isn't necessarily a homeschool failure at all. That's a perfectly good choice for many families. I would ONLY describe that situation as a "failure" if the decision was made purely because the mom decided she just couldn't deal with her kids, didn't want to be bothered teaching them, or just didn't want them around during the day.

Michelle T

[Deece in MN]

I think (as some others have said) that the definition of success and failure has to be defined personally.

 

We had a couple years where our homeschooling was not up to the standard that I normally try to set. I had a friend who was working and I was helping her out by watching her kids (min. 3 days a week, sometimes 5 days). At the time I didn't know how to say no, the extra money was helpful and I wanted my dc to have some interaction with other kids which is why I let things go on as long as I did. We did some school, but not what I had on our schedule.

 

I woke up one day to the realization that I was "failing" my dc because I was not putting them first, I was putting this other family before ours. Would I have been considered a failure by others? Some people would say yes, some no.

 

I look at a dear friend of mine who unschooled and while I wouldn't say she was a failure I also wouldn't say she was a success at homeschooling. Her boys can do the educational basics, but not much more beyond that (mostly because they have no interest not because they are not smart). They excel at some activities that are not academic and will probably be the direction they need to follow for work because neither one is interested in college and would most likely struggle if they went.

 

I just have a hard time saying someone is a failure or a success based on my definition because everyone is different. Also, sometimes people create the appearance of success, but they really aren't doing much of anything. I don't know if that makes them a failure or not. I guess this can go the other way where a family can appear to be "failures" at homeschooling, but they really are accomplishing so much more than people realize. Though I would guess this scenario is not as common.

 

I like what others have said about the key being doing what is right for each child. Every child is different and if the focus is doing what is best for each of them (whether homeschool, public school or whatever) I don't see how you can be anything but successful.

 

I hope this makes sense because I am typing quickly and not rereading as I am on a short break. :)

Edited January 1, 2009 by Deece in MN

[Janie]

The child, the parent, the material.

 

I homeschooled for four children all the way through high school graduation for twenty years and wondered every year how I might change and tweak to perfect the teaching and facilitation I was doing. Every year I would say "If I had this to do over, I would ...." because I realized there is always a better way to do things. All and all, I do not think I failed at my homeschooling career, but I do think I could have AND my children could have done better.

 

No matter how much or how well you provide the education through your teaching, if the student does not receive it for. whatever. reason, the end result has not succeeded.

 

Now that I am a teacher in a traditional classroom, I dread to hear that I am getting a new student who was homeschooled. I learned very quickly that "homeschooled" typically carries a negative connotation in public/private schools, and that is not always due to the public/private vs. home education war over domain. It is usually due to the homeschooled student so ill-prepared for the classroom he is entering that he cannot do the expected work.

 

Granted, much has to do with the school's testing and placement accuracy, but you just would not believe the students who end up in traditional schools without abilities they should have.

 

So many parents have this pie-in-the-sky dream of homeschooling their children without ever realizing (duh!) that they have to teach them. These parents evidently think that their children will be taught by automatic osmosis with little-to-no effort on their part.

 

I have had students who enter 6th grade who write (both penmanship and composition) like a third grader; who do not know a noun from a verb, a subject from a predicate; have never read a book; do not know the alphabet and therefore cannot put anything into alphabetical order; and have never heard of basic history beyond America.

 

The parents of these children who have not done their duty are then the first and loudest complainers of required schoolwork. They complain that their child cannot read as much as required (Well, yeah! Wonder why?), there are too many sentences in English (10 per night is too many?), and wah-wah-wah it goes. Funny, though, that although the student may whine some, he usually does his best to complete the task; it is the parent who complains so much.

 

I've had students who are woefully behind because of many reasons, but most are all traced back to the parent. One student this year is way behind because the mom pulled him out of public school when she went through a nasty divorce. Whenever, according to her, C (the child) had a bad day, "we just didn't do anything...I didn't want to push him." Of course, C was not the one having the bad day; it was mom. This poor student will be catching up for several years to come.

 

A student last year would feign a teary cry about the work and mom would give in and write a nasty note to the teacher (me) about how I overloaded her son and he couldn't do it. The plain and simple was that he was lazy. And so was she.

 

Parents, including homeschooling parents, need to wise up when their children complain. Children do not always tell the truth. And children are lazy if enabled.

 

I think we are seeing an increased manifestation of enabling moms and struggling children because of the widespread freedom to homeschool. I'm not saying homeschooling should be regulated, but I am saying that a lot of homeschooling moms (and dads) do not take this endeavor seriously. And the children are the ones who will suffer.

 

Most on these boards do take their jobs seriously. At least I can say that about the early and old boards when this community was much, much smaller and intimate. Most here really do their job--that's why they're here. But there is a whole other group of homeschoolers out there that do not.

 

Boy, this ends on such an unintended sour note. Please forgive. :)

[Joanne]

Wow, once again, I ask myself why I even come on this board. Trying to get encouragement from some of you is really hard. We've been homeschooling for 6 years and after the Christmas break my daughter is going to school. Why? Not because I've been a failure as a homeschooling parent or a failure as a parent (as someone on here has eluded to) but because she is simply smarter than I am. I'm a single mom with absolutely no help in the area of homeschooling. Oh yeah, lots and LOTS of people offerered to help when my kids were younger and school was easier but where are they now? You're guess is as good as mine. I've been holding my very bright daughter back. She yearns to learn and what she needs to learn in order to go on to college, I can't teach her. I don't consider myself or my homeschool a failure. What it has taught my daughter, besides academics, is how to be a confident leader, a mature 14 year old who makes some adults look foolish because of her maturity level. As I've always told my friends (homeschoolers and public schoolers) homeschooling is a very personal, family by family choice and whatever choice a particular family decides to make is nobody's business.

 

I've been a non-standard, non predictable homeschooler, including a single mom, a WAH mom, and a WOH the home mom (like now, where I work more than 40 hours outside the home).

 

Your homeschooling journey appears to be a success. I'm wondering, though, why you'd expect a *homeschooling* board to offer and embrace a "whatever works" philosophy?

 

The point of forming and participating in boards with a specific purpose is to talk about the unifying elements in an environment safe from "all choices are equal" comments, to be able to talk about concerns about brick and mortar educational settings, etc.

 

Perhaps your family choices are excellent but your expectations of this board are not realistic?

[sunshine]

:iagree:

I don't know that one can necessarily call any form of schooling a failure. What I see as academic failure on the part of a student may be seen as reasonable performance by the family involved. But those who have students graduate from high school with a level of academic achievement which allows the student to pursue a reasonable college career seem to have the following characteristics in common:

 

1. Parents who are motivated themselves. I know of several families who assume their kids will go to college, but the parents don't model a good work ethic and allow fun/family to intrude into the school time. These kids have tried college courses but have given up because "...it requires too much time" to do well.

 

2. The schooling parent is oftentimes known as a tyrant :001_rolleyes:. She keeps up with her kids' work, knows where they are academically, will sit and teach when necessary (usually with younger kids), corrects papers, insures that students learn from mistakes, and considers schooling her top priority for the day (i.e., her job).

 

3. Curriculum that isn't necessarily easy. I hear all too often that this curriculum or that "makes my child cry". We need to teach our children to do hard things, to take risks, to do their finest work. Many kids know that crying or 'stressing' causes mom enough stress so that she will reduce academic requirements. Of course, one needs to be reasonable and design the academic program around each child's needs/strengths/weaknesses.

 

4. And the end of #3 requires a parent to do some research. The most "successful" parents I've known have researched curricula and learning styles, developed an academic strategy for each child, and worked to see that the student was successful.

 

All this to say that an involved and committed parent is the most important aspect of a homeschooling family, IMO.

 

*Disclaimer: I'm sure there are many children out there who are self motivated and will be successful in spite of the parent's lack of involvement. I just don't know any.

 

 

''The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it''. Michelangelo

[FO4UR]

The child, the parent, the material.

 

I homeschooled for four children all the way through high school graduation for twenty years and wondered every year how I might change and tweak to perfect the teaching and facilitation I was doing. Every year I would say "If I had this to do over, I would ...." because I realized there is always a better way to do things. All and all, I do not think I failed at my homeschooling career, but I do think I could have AND my children could have done better.

 

No matter how much or how well you provide the education through your teaching, if the student does not receive it for. whatever. reason, the end result has not succeeded.

 

Now that I am a teacher in a traditional classroom, I dread to hear that I am getting a new student who was homeschooled. I learned very quickly that "homeschooled" typically carries a negative connotation in public/private schools, and that is not always due to the public/private vs. home education war over domain. It is usually due to the homeschooled student so ill-prepared for the classroom he is entering that he cannot do the expected work.

 

Granted, much has to do with the school's testing and placement accuracy, but you just would not believe the students who end up in traditional schools without abilities they should have.

 

So many parents have this pie-in-the-sky dream of homeschooling their children without ever realizing (duh!) that they have to teach them. These parents evidently think that their children will be taught by automatic osmosis with little-to-no effort on their part.

 

I have had students who enter 6th grade who write (both penmanship and composition) like a third grader; who do not know a noun from a verb, a subject from a predicate; have never read a book; do not know the alphabet and therefore cannot put anything into alphabetical order; and have never heard of basic history beyond America.

 

The parents of these children who have not done their duty are then the first and loudest complainers of required schoolwork. They complain that their child cannot read as much as required (Well, yeah! Wonder why?), there are too many sentences in English (10 per night is too many?), and wah-wah-wah it goes. Funny, though, that although the student may whine some, he usually does his best to complete the task; it is the parent who complains so much.

 

I've had students who are woefully behind because of many reasons, but most are all traced back to the parent. One student this year is way behind because the mom pulled him out of public school when she went through a nasty divorce. Whenever, according to her, C (the child) had a bad day, "we just didn't do anything...I didn't want to push him." Of course, C was not the one having the bad day; it was mom. This poor student will be catching up for several years to come.

 

A student last year would feign a teary cry about the work and mom would give in and write a nasty note to the teacher (me) about how I overloaded her son and he couldn't do it. The plain and simple was that he was lazy. And so was she.

 

Parents, including homeschooling parents, need to wise up when their children complain. Children do not always tell the truth. And children are lazy if enabled.

 

I think we are seeing an increased manifestation of enabling moms and struggling children because of the widespread freedom to homeschool. I'm not saying homeschooling should be regulated, but I am saying that a lot of homeschooling moms (and dads) do not take this endeavor seriously. And the children are the ones who will suffer.

 

Most on these boards do take their jobs seriously. At least I can say that about the early and old boards when this community was much, much smaller and intimate. Most here really do their job--that's why they're here. But there is a whole other group of homeschoolers out there that do not.

 

Boy, this ends on such an unintended sour note. Please forgive. :)

 

 

Well-thought and convicting post!:001_smile:

 

I think success in HSing is similar to success in parenting. Did you prepare your dc for their lives as adults? If yes, then you are a success!

[swellmomma]

. I guess this can go the other way where a family can appear to be "failures" at homeschooling, but they really are accomplishing so much more than people realize. Though I would guess this scenario is not as common.

 

 

 

THis is how it is for me. I have very lofty goals/plans for my kids and I and when I don't reach them I have a tendancy of making it sound like we do nothing, so family and friends think that we are failing often. But when I actually sit and figure out what we really DID do it is much more than a lot fo families,a nd the kids are making major progress in all areas.

 

As for what is a failure, like others said it is a very personal thing. Based on some answers here we are failures, in that we don't have that closeness that other homeschool families have. The kids are not doing everything others are doing at this age. I do have days, and even weeks where I can't stand the thought of being around my kids for one minute more. However, I do not think we are failures, because we are still working hard, working thorugh all the special needs, and my lofty goals and the other life struggles like being a single parent and having to provide for the kids etc. I think that we are very successful, and will continue to be. No my kids may not get scholarships to go to any school they want, they may even decide college is not for them, but they will be stronger, more educated and better prepared for this world from homeschooling and having the time to mature and get help for their special needs than they would in school. That I can guarantee based on the time they spent in ps before this journey began.

[Julie in Austin]

I'm sure some of you won't agree with this, but I'll say it anyway:

 

Unless there is a physical/mental/developmental reason why the child could not attend college, I think that homeschoolers have a moral obligation to prepare their children for college. Whether the child actually attends will be the child's decision (since s/he'll be a legal adult at that point), but I don't think that parents have the right to close the college door. I'm not that concerned about *how* the parent gets the child to that point (textbooks? unschooling? classical? doesn't matter in this discussion), but I don't think it is fair to take over a child's education and then put the child in a place where s/he can't continue that education if s/he wants to.

 

We'd all be mad as heck if we sent our child to a public school for 13 years, the child was awarded a degree, and then was unable to do college-level work. So we can't do that at home, either.

 

So: an 18-year-old hs grad (without physical/mental/etc. issues) who is not capable of completing intro-level classes at the local junior college is, in my opinion, a homeschooling failure.

[Ria]

I think we are seeing an increased manifestation of enabling moms and struggling children because of the widespread freedom to homeschool. I'm not saying homeschooling should be regulated, but I am saying that a lot of homeschooling moms (and dads) do not take this endeavor seriously. And the children are the ones who will suffer.

 

Most on these boards do take their jobs seriously. At least I can say that about the early and old boards when this community was much, much smaller and intimate. Most here really do their job--that's why they're here. But there is a whole other group of homeschoolers out there that do not.

 

 

 

I agree. Things have changed since I started homeschooling 16 years ago. I've seen that "other group" firsthand, and it isn't pretty. That's why I love reading these boards...this group of moms really cares. It's inspiring.

 

Ria

[BusyMum]

I always get upset reading these threads and doubt this time will be any different.

 

 

I actually find these threads really motivating and empowering. Just as we learn from other people's successes, so too can we learn from their mistakes. I always read these threads and end up with a list of points to consider - humbly and without defensiveness. How can I do better? Are any of these things traps that I am inclined to fall into? What things should I put in place to ensure I do the best for my kids?

[Guest janainaz]

So many good posts, too many to quote. I love threads like this that make you stop and think.

 

Some parents end up homeschooling for a few years and end up on a different path. I don't consider that a failure, I consider that making decisions that are best for your kids and for your family. Some parents homeschool through high school and will share stories of the ups and downs of homeschooling. Any parent that is trying to do their very best with their kids is a success, in my opinion.

[Miss Marple]

Totally agree. And it's nice to hear this from someone who has experienced both sides - an educator at home and an educator in the public realm. You're seeing the same thing I'm seeing in many of our co-op families. You'd think that when the application says "College Prep" they would understand that means reading a lot, writing essays on a regular basis, and doing assigned homework - but they don't.

 

These moms can't seem to understand that a 15 yob doesn't have the maturity to decide if he needs to do the work. The mom needs to get a backbone and sit on him to see that he does it! Lazy homeschooling moms produce lazy students.

[Stacy in NJ]

Of the 20 of so homeschooling families I know, I'd consider only one of them a failure. They're a large family, 5 kids, and the parents have some really difficult circumstances; unemployment, loss of their home, medical situations. Some of those circumstances were created by poor judgement on the part of the parents. The reason why I catagorize them as a failure is because while the kids are bright they're getting little structured teaching, not enough core academics. They're more or less floating from day to day. I think a school would provide them with more structure and clear goals. I think they choose not to send them to school because of the complications that arise from that, the obligations. I don't think it qualifies as neglect, but I do think it's a shame because I don't see them (the kids) living up to their potential. I don't think that a few weeks, a couple months or even a whole year that is unstructured and lacks consistent work will ruin a child. I do think year after year of that will have a very negative impact.

 

So, I'll just repeat the comments of others who have said a large part of successful homeschooling is simple consistency and work ethic.

[JenniferB]

Wow, once again, I ask myself why I even come on this board. Trying to get encouragement from some of you is really hard. We've been homeschooling for 6 years and after the Christmas break my daughter is going to school. Why? Not because I've been a failure as a homeschooling parent or a failure as a parent (as someone on here has eluded to) but because she is simply smarter than I am. I'm a single mom with absolutely no help in the area of homeschooling. Oh yeah, lots and LOTS of people offerered to help when my kids were younger and school was easier but where are they now? You're guess is as good as mine. I've been holding my very bright daughter back. She yearns to learn and what she needs to learn in order to go on to college, I can't teach her. I don't consider myself or my homeschool a failure. What it has taught my daughter, besides academics, is how to be a confident leader, a mature 14 year old who makes some adults look foolish because of her maturity level. As I've always told my friends (homeschoolers and public schoolers) homeschooling is a very personal, family by family choice and whatever choice a particular family decides to make is nobody's business.

 

Journey,

 

I would consider putting your daughter in school at this point a success, not a failure. Someone very close to me was "home-schooled" but this persons mother didn't consider the needs of the child. This child would have done well to get a public school education, but instead the education received was from game shows and Judge Wapner. This example is the only homeschooling failure I know of, and this example is one of the life experiences which propels me to excel still more in what I want to accomplish with my children. It's about meeting the needs of the child, which you are clearly inclined to do.

[Audrey]

We'd all be mad as heck if we sent our child to a public school for 13 years, the child was awarded a degree, and then was unable to do college-level work. So we can't do that at home, either.

 

 

 

This happens all the time -- a child goes to ps for 13 years, is awarded a degree and is completely and utterly incapable of doing college-level work.

 

I saw this all the time when I was a prof at a state university. Kids would come in unable to write a coherent sentence, let alone a coherent paragraph or essay. It was disgusting, but what is worse is that it continues on unabated, and parents just go along complacently accepting that inferior standard for education as "normal."

 

That is failure. That is why I'm homeschooling.

[Harriet Vane]

From my observation, I would have to say the thing that makes or breaks homeschooling is whether or not the parent is willing to DO THE WORK.

 

I have seen those who don't do the work--there is NO homeschooling philosophy that can cover that lack.

 

I have seen those who I, in my pride, considered to be unskilled and incompetent for the task of homeschooling. However, that family's work ethic and the commitment of the parents to DO THE WORK each day overcame their weaknesses. Watching them changed my perspective completely.

 

As such, educational philosophy affects things a LOT less than does the willingness to do the work.

[Heather in WI]

I actually find these threads really motivating and empowering. Just as we learn from other people's successes, so too can we learn from their mistakes. I always read these threads and end up with a list of points to consider - humbly and without defensiveness. How can I do better? Are any of these things traps that I am inclined to fall into? What things should I put in place to ensure I do the best for my kids?

 

:iagree:

 

I was pretty active on the old boards, but haven't been as active on these new ones. (I think I still have less than 10 posts, LOL!) I still have posts like some of the ones in this thread from the old boards copied and pasted into documents -- the title of the file is "WTM board advice". Some of the advice I have found most helpful is from homeschooling moms who teach in co-ops or at the college level! Far from becoming defensive, they really motivate me to make sure that I don't fall into some of the more common pitfalls that they see in homeschooling families. :-)