Y'all, seriously, I can't make this stuff up, another possible hit (UPDATE)

[DawnM]

 

WHEW!  He just got an email that said everyone who is getting let go has been notified, and he was not notified.....so we are safe for now!   But it does make us more resolved to move/downsize/save $$.

 

Original post:

I am trying not to stress right now, but DH's firm just told them they are laying off 5% of their employees nationwide by the end of the day.   They told them to look out for an email.

He is actually a bit concerned based on his current position and their needs.  I won't elaborate as it is somewhat irrelevant, but he has cause for concern.

This is a firm who was BEGGING for employees during the pandemic.   Sigh.

But, this is making us more resolved to move as we cannot afford this home on my salary.   DH just told me, "We HAVE to buy a house with cash or a very small mortgage, we need to make sure we could survive if we get laid off."

Now, we have some savings, he will look for another job, and we won't starve.   But we def. need to start thinking a little more about our next move.

MY CONCERN?   This could be the tip of the iceberg for layoffs from his firm.   He works for one of the big 4 accounting firms.   

I actually said to him that maybe we should sell and rent a while, in case we have to move move, like out of the area, for him to get a job.

UGH! UGH! UGH!

Edited June 26, 2023 by DawnM

[Kassia]

ugh, I'm sorry.  You definitely don't need any more stress right now.  And neither does your poor DH.  Fingers crossed he won't be laid off.  

[mlktwins]

I'm so sorry y'all keep taking the hits. I know you want to move, but is there any way to take that off the table for now? Settle down and rest from the trauma of the past year and regroup. It is so much stress what you are doing.

[Katy]

Don’t panic sell in a hurry to rent. Rent is increasing astronomical in areas with tight inventory. If he gets hired elsewhere and you have to move, they’ll give you a relocation package (ours are typically worth $50-80k, and you don’t have to pay realtor fees or other moving costs, and you get a bonus if you price to sell quickly. You don’t want to lose the money on realtor and then have to move again. He’s in an in-demand field, it won’t take long. 3 months tops.

[DawnM]

14 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

I'm so sorry y'all keep taking the hits. I know you want to move, but is there any way to take that off the table for now? Settle down and rest from the trauma of the past year and regroup. It is so much stress what you are doing.

We cannot afford to live here on my salary alone.   In fact, we could pay our mortgage and bills but wouldn't be able to eat or pay for college for the boys!

Our goal was to sell and buy a home with cash, this is why we are looking to move and if he gets laid off, we will HAVE to move or he will have to find something pretty quickly, which may not be very easy.

[teachermom2834]

My 25 yo ds works for a big 4. They went from getting large (to 25 yo him) retention bonuses a couple years ago to a hiring freeze and talks of layoffs. He will be fine because he is young and cheap and can move jobs easily and has no obligations hardly. But it has been kind of wild.

I understand why you have to move and it is good you were already in the process of thinking it through I guess. We had a rough patch almost a decade ago that we took so many hits in succession it was unbelievable. My sister said to me if she didn’t know me she would assume I was a compulsive liar attention seeker because no one could have all those things go wrong at the same time 😕

Sorry for all your stress! You will get through it - sooner hopefully better than later. 

[Indigo Blue]

Dawn I’m very sorry. I’m betting this is all going to work out in the end.  Hang in there. 
 

[catz]

Crossing fingers it's not him!  ❤️ 

But it is a good reminder that if you are going to buy, make sure it is something comfortably affordable AND is livable in very close to the current state.  Committing to a house that you know is going to need a ton of work to get it to a baseline is almost always more time and money than predicted.

[TexasProud]

UGGH.. Praying he doesn't get laid off.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

My 25 yo ds works for a big 4. They went from getting large (to 25 yo him) retention bonuses a couple years ago to a hiring freeze and talks of layoffs. He will be fine because he is young and cheap and can move jobs easily and has no obligations hardly. But it has been kind of wild.

I understand why you have to move and it is good you were already in the process of thinking it through I guess. We had a rough patch almost a decade ago that we took so many hits in succession it was unbelievable. My sister said to me if she didn’t know me she would assume I was a compulsive liar attention seeker because no one could have all those things go wrong at the same time 😕

Sorry for all your stress! You will get through it - sooner hopefully better than later. 

Right?

I know we have had some on here who have told some huge fabrications and it is pretty obvious (remember the woman who said she had 10 kids and only 8 bedrooms in her house and we found out it was all a huge lie?  And there are many more who aren't on the boards anymore!)

But I can assure you, esp since I know people in person on these boards, I am not lying.

[DawnM]

DH just got an email saying they have let everyone who is being axed know so if you didn't receive notification, you are good for now.   He didn't get one of the axe emails so I think he is safe.   But like I said, I worry this is just the beginning.

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, DawnM said:

DH just got an email saying they have let everyone who is being axed know so if you didn't receive notification, you are good for now.   He didn't get one of the axe emails so I think he is safe.   But like I said, I worry this is just the beginning.

Glad he's safe for now.

[Faith-manor]

24 minutes ago, DawnM said:

DH just got an email saying they have let everyone who is being axed know so if you didn't receive notification, you are good for now.   He didn't get one of the axe emails so I think he is safe.   But like I said, I worry this is just the beginning.

I know how you feel. When Mark worked for HP, it was just about an annual event, "Hey, we are letting people go this week." It was never because they needed to downsize. the company made ungodly profits. It was always because they wanted their ungodly profits to be even more unholy by letting higher paid workers go, and then in a couple months, "Oops. We needed them!" Followed by hiring far less experienced people, and then shooting themselves in the foot because the newbies can't write good code that fast that ALSO meets all the criteria. We lived on eggshells for the 5 years he was with them! I am so thankful he is with a reliable employer now.

Hugs!

We went from having a mortgage to no mortgage during that last year of HP. We were just done worrying about it. So I get! I hope you find a place soon.

[Grace Hopper]

45 minutes ago, DawnM said:

DH just got an email saying they have let everyone who is being axed know so if you didn't receive notification, you are good for now.   He didn't get one of the axe emails so I think he is safe.   But like I said, I worry this is just the beginning.

I am relieved for you but it would have probably felt better to have received a message directly saying you, Mr Dawn, are a valuable employee and not involved in this round of downsizing. 
 

DH’s large corporation offered early retirement packages about a month ago. He is sad that some of his long time cohort will be departing, but glad enough of them took it so that he didn’t fear he’d be approached directly and asked to consider it. We need him to work another ten years!

[kathyl]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

But, this is making us more resolved to move as we cannot afford this home on my salary.   DH just told me, "We HAVE to buy a house with cash or a very small mortgage, we need to make sure we could survive if we get laid off."

Now, we have some savings, he will look for another job, and we won't starve.   But we def. need to start thinking a little more about our next move.

MY CONCERN?   This could be the tip of the iceberg for layoffs from his firm.   He works for one of the big 4 accounting firms.   

I actually said to him that maybe we should sell and rent a while, in case we have to move move, like out of the area, for him to get a job.

UGH! UGH! UGH!

Y'all are a lot younger than we are, I think, but the above is what saved us when dh was fired/laid off last summer.  We had bought this house with cash a while before that happened.  

I knew I wanted to stay in TX though.  You may or may not be thinking to stay in place?

Also, our kids are done with college, grown, and 5 are on their own.  One is living with us while he figures out what to do next.

I've noticed over the decades that when the companies dh has worked for begin that sell, change name, layoff a few, sell again, change name again, etc., process, the major layoffs and, ultimately, the shutdown, are just around the corner.  And, sure enough, that's what's currently happening here with the company he was working at.  IOW, I am so glad we bought this house with cash.  But at your ages and stages of life that might not be the best thing to do.  

{{{Hugs}}}

Edited June 27, 2023 by kathyl

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, kathyl said:

Y'all are a lot younger than we are, I think, but the above is what saved us when dh was fired/laid off last summer.  We had bought this house with cash a while before that happened.  

I knew I wanted to stay in TX though.  You may or may not be thinking to stay in place?

Also, our kids are done with college, grown, and 5 are on their own.  One is living with us while he figures out what to do next.

I've noticed over the decades that when the companies dh has worked for begin that sell, change name, layoff a few, sell again, change name again, etc., process, the major layoffs and, ultimately, the shutdown, are just around the corner.  And, sure enough, that's what's currently happening here with the company he was working at.  IOW, I am so glad we bought this house with cash.  But at your ages and stages of life that might not be the best thing to do.  

{{{Hugs}}}

What do you mean it may not be the best thing to do?   Wouldn't it always be a good idea to be debt free?

[Pawz4me]

16 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Wouldn't it always be a good idea to be debt free?

Financially?

No, it's not always the best choice. We could pay off our mortgage easily if we wanted to. But the interest rate is less than 3 percent. We earn significantly more than that on our investments. Right now certificates of deposit are paying considerably more than that. It would be a dumb move financially to pay it off. But I do understand psychologically wanting to be debt free.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Pawz4me

[TexasProud]

15 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Financially?

No, it's not always the best choice. We could pay off our mortgage easily if we wanted to. But the interest rate is less than 3 percent. We earn significantly more than that on our investments. Right now certificates of deposit are paying considerably more than that. It would be a dumb move financially to pay it off. But I do understand psychologically wanting to be debt free.

Yeah, but interest rates can change SO much.  Or like this past year where investments LOST money. So to me, debt free is king. Period. I cannot tell you the freedom that brings. So much easier to cut back when you need to. 

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, but interest rates can change SO much.  Or like this past year where investments LOST money. So to me, debt free is king. Period. I cannot tell you the freedom that brings. So much easier to cut back when you need to. 

Our mortgage rate is fixed. CD rates are fixed.

[DawnM]

21 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Financially?

No, it's not always the best choice. We could pay off our mortgage easily if we wanted to. But the interest rate is less than 3 percent. We earn significantly more than that on our investments. Right now certificates of deposit are paying considerably more than that. It would be a dumb move financially to pay it off. But I do understand psychologically wanting to be debt free.

Ah, gotcha.   Although our investments have taken a bit of a hit these last few years.   They are coming back up, but still.

We currently pay around $1,000/mo in interest on our loan and we do have a 2.7% rate on the home, however, I don't think we make over $1,000 on our investments per month, so we need to get that balanced better.

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, but interest rates can change SO much.  Or like this past year where investments LOST money. So to me, debt free is king. Period. I cannot tell you the freedom that brings. So much easier to cut back when you need to. 

Just knowing that monthly bill is not set anymore!

And, just like this scare with DH's job yesterday, just knowing we can make it easily on my salary for a while if necessary is going to be wonderfully freeing.   

[Pawz4me]

Just now, DawnM said:

 

We currently pay around $1,000/mo in interest on our loan

You pay more in interest than our entire mortgage payment is.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

You pay more in interest than our entire mortgage payment is.

Yeah, that is our issue.   Time to change that for us.

This house also has higher everything.....taxes, utilities, HOA, etc....

I am over it.

[KidsHappen]

That is awesome! So glad to hear it.

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Our mortgage rate is fixed. CD rates are fixed.

Exactly.  So, until recently, CD rates were dismal...1 percent or so.  Even now the rates are 5 percent or so, I think.  Most people's mortgage rates are at least that if not higher.  If you want to keep ahead of inflation, you have to take more risk, which means the chance of losing is also higher.  

[TexasProud]

When buying a house, we always told our children to do what we did: If you can afford a 1500 dollar mortgage payment, buy something that costs 700 a month and actually pay 1500.  You will pay off your mortgage in record time and then use the equity to buy something bigger if you want. 

[Tap]

So glad he is safe!! Woo hoo!! 

[Grace Hopper]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

What do you mean it may not be the best thing to do?   Wouldn't it always be a good idea to be debt free?

No. Dave Ramsey tried to convince of this for decades but a smart leverage of debt can work in one’s favor. Marketable assets are the key. So, downsizing to a fully paid off house that has really low resale value (for probably the same reason you could afford to purchase it) could leave you stuck later on. 
 

(lemme go back and read other replies to this specifically because someone else has likely already explained it well)

[Grace Hopper]

Here’s a fairly simple explanation of leverage, for anyone interested. 

https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/manage-your-household/manage-debt/good-debt-using-debt-to-build-wealth.html

Of course not everyone will find themselves in a position to leverage debt, you need to maintain a cash flow in whatever circumstances you’re in. But many people believe selling off their assets and “living cheap” will better position them, which isn’t always the case.

This doesn’t specifically speak to the OP’s situation, it’s just a response to the notion that any kind of debt is bad (and as many of us may have been conditioned to believe, that debt is evil or sinful). 

[kathyl]

11 hours ago, DawnM said:

What do you mean it may not be the best thing to do?   Wouldn't it always be a good idea to be debt free?

Maybe.  I guess it depends on the individual situation.  I was thinking that your family is probably going to be going through a lot of changes in the near future - jobs for all of you, college, moves, etc. - and that paying off a house when you have to turn around and sell it might be more trouble than it's worth.  

We've rented and bought houses over the decades.  It was nice to own a house, but it was also wonderful to rent and pick up the phone and call the landlord when the house needed something.  And maybe we weren't the best money managers, but I always felt like we came out better renting vs owning and spending tons of money on the house.  We put all 5 kids through college while we rented a 4-room lake cabin for $800/month when dh's job was in NH.  That job and dc's college finished around the same time.  Then we moved on to the next thing.  No selling a house or having to make a buyer happy - nothing.  Just packed and left.

But I realize this is really an individual thing.  It's just that y'all have been through so much serious stuff lately.  Seems like y'all need some kind of room to rest and breathe??  I could be wrong though ... 

[DawnM]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:22 PM, kathyl said:

Maybe.  I guess it depends on the individual situation.  I was thinking that your family is probably going to be going through a lot of changes in the near future - jobs for all of you, college, moves, etc. - and that paying off a house when you have to turn around and sell it might be more trouble than it's worth.  

We've rented and bought houses over the decades.  It was nice to own a house, but it was also wonderful to rent and pick up the phone and call the landlord when the house needed something.  And maybe we weren't the best money managers, but I always felt like we came out better renting vs owning and spending tons of money on the house.  We put all 5 kids through college while we rented a 4-room lake cabin for $800/month when dh's job was in NH.  That job and dc's college finished around the same time.  Then we moved on to the next thing.  No selling a house or having to make a buyer happy - nothing.  Just packed and left.

But I realize this is really an individual thing.  It's just that y'all have been through so much serious stuff lately.  Seems like y'all need some kind of room to rest and breathe??  I could be wrong though ... 

Thank you, I appreciate you saying that.   

I thought we had been in this house 3 years, but it turns out it was FOUR years ago.   I was surprised.

And I do hear you.   

We are still thinking things through.

[Scarlett]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:59 AM, TexasProud said:

Exactly.  So, until recently, CD rates were dismal...1 percent or so.  Even now the rates are 5 percent or so, I think.  Most people's mortgage rates are at least that if not higher.  If you want to keep ahead of inflation, you have to take more risk, which means the chance of losing is also higher.  

This is what I tried to get my son and DIL to do.  But they wanted a turn key deal.  They view home ownership so differently myhan I did when I was young. Xh and I bought a nice little starter house in a really good neighbor hood and worked so hard on the yard  and interior.  We put up a privacy fence, cut down overgrown bushes, planted flowers, refinished wood floors, replaced Sheetrock in the living room because it had 40 years worth of wallpaper in it.  Repainted kitchen cabinets from dark blue to white, changed out hardware, replaced kitchen floor. New garage door ect.  It was a lot of fun and a lot of work.  Built a cedar off season closet in the workshop area of the garage.  Just lots of things.

ds23 and his wife have been in their house a year and they don’t even mow their own lawn.

Definitely different mindsets. 

[DawnM]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:07 AM, Grace Hopper said:

No. Dave Ramsey tried to convince of this for decades but a smart leverage of debt can work in one’s favor. Marketable assets are the key. So, downsizing to a fully paid off house that has really low resale value (for probably the same reason you could afford to purchase it) could leave you stuck later on. 
 

(lemme go back and read other replies to this specifically because someone else has likely already explained it well)

Real estate is the thing that has really made our $$.   We have made a lot.   And this house will net a huge surplus as well.   AND, this is the first house we bought that was turnkey.   We added my dad's apartment, but other than that, we haven't had to repair much.   And the housing market went way up.   The combination is going to make our house currently the most lucrative gain in assets, BUT, we have bought fixers in nice areas and worked on them and made a sizable profit from each.

If we stick to the budget we have, 100% of the cash we pay will be on the assets of the houses we have bought and sold.

However, we are getting older, we are more tired, and we honestly can't do as much while working full time, etc....

We found a house yesterday that checks every box but the pool.   It is more expensive.   We will carry a somewhat small mortgage on top of the cash we put down.   But, we both loved it.   And it has unfinished space that will be instant equity if we finish it off.   THAT made my husband want it even more.   There is a 1,200 sq. ft. attic space that has already been framed and pluming put in for a finished attic space with a full bath.  The quote they showed us was $18k to finish it off into just a room with insulation, heating and air, bathroom fixtures, and full drywall.   That seems low, but DH could also do a lot of it himself.

 

[stephanier.1765]

1200 sq ft! That's going to be amazing when done. That's the square footage of our entire house. LOL Good luck! Have you already put down an offer?

 

[Scarlett]

42 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Real estate is the thing that has really made our $$.   We have made a lot.   And this house will net a huge surplus as well.   AND, this is the first house we bought that was turnkey.   We added my dad's apartment, but other than that, we haven't had to repair much.   And the housing market went way up.   The combination is going to make our house currently the most lucrative gain in assets, BUT, we have bought fixers in nice areas and worked on them and made a sizable profit from each.

If we stick to the budget we have, 100% of the cash we pay will be on the assets of the houses we have bought and sold.

However, we are getting older, we are more tired, and we honestly can't do as much while working full time, etc....

We found a house yesterday that checks every box but the pool.   It is more expensive.   We will carry a somewhat small mortgage on top of the cash we put down.   But, we both loved it.   And it has unfinished space that will be instant equity if we finish it off.   THAT made my husband want it even more.   There is a 1,200 sq. ft. attic space that has already been framed and pluming put in for a finished attic space with a full bath.  The quote they showed us was $18k to finish it off into just a room with insulation, heating and air, bathroom fixtures, and full drywall.   That seems low, but DH could also do a lot of it himself.

 

@DawnM this sounds perfect! I hope you get it!

[TexasProud]

@DawnM  Sounds awesome.  Hope you get it.

[DawnM]

46 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

1200 sq ft! That's going to be amazing when done. That's the square footage of our entire house. LOL Good luck! Have you already put down an offer?

 

No, we are going back today at 1 to take photos and measurements.   

We will have to make a contingent offer on this one and not do the buy and then sell thing.   We need the equity to put down on that house and couldn't get approved for enough to cover the mortgage on that one for even a couple of months.

So.....I am getting help to pack.  My realtor lined up 3 ladies for 3 hours (9 hours of work) for $30/hour each.  That works for me and I think we can get a lot done if there are 4 of us with me included.   

They can come back next week for another 3 hours as well, so we should be good.

Next week DH has the whole week off and we were going to go on vacation but have changed plans and will not spend the entire week getting the house ready to sell and get on the market.

I know this isn't environmentally friendly but I think I will pare down to only one dish and cup per person and then have a lot of paper goods out.  I have tons of paper goods from my dad's memorial we didn't need (Costco packs!) so I will pull that out.

[Ottakee]

This latest house sounds like a great fit.  
 

and don’t worry about the paper products.  Right now you are surviving.

[mominco]

Dawn I hope you get this house,sending good vibes your way!

[DawnM]

Thanks all.  This is the first house we are excited about and are willing to start packing over!   

I hope we can get the house packed up with the help of those ladies.   I am curious to see how far we will get.

[heartlikealion]

Good update. I hope everything goes smoothly. 

[DawnM]

Ok, we went back to the house yesterday.   Correction, the attic is 900 sq. ft. not 1200.   

I love listings with floor plans.......this one didn't have one.

[Arctic Bunny]

22 hours ago, DawnM said:

Thanks all.  This is the first house we are excited about and are willing to start packing over!   

I hope we can get the house packed up with the help of those ladies.   I am curious to see how far we will get.

If they normally work for movers, then they will be used to finishing in a day or less! You may need to just stay out of their way, lol, and instead focus on clearly marking what they should not pack!