Aging parents and housing

[Ginevra]

This could potentially be very long but I wll try to be concise. 

My parents are both alive and are around 80 years old. My mom has multiple very significant health challenges; my dad has *some*. I would not call him spry and his balance is terrible, but by comparison, he is in much better condition than my mom. 
 

Their house is a story in itself and it is in terrible condition. We have helped some over the years, but at this point, it is either tear-down condition or at least as-is potluck sale. Even being located in a high COL space it will not bring much; certainly not enough to have my parents laterally move. They have a low income, so that’s also a factor. It is also very close to hoarder status.

They have tried at least twice to move to a house near one of my sisters. I would really like for them to be able to do this because it would solve a large number of problems. Where they live now, nobody can swing by, bring them food, help with laundry, etc; it is an hour in a direction none of us go. (Three of us live in this area; one lives out of state.) 

They we’re not able to get into the other houses and I really only know this because my friend is their RE agent. In one case, they could not afford closing costs (didn’t even know that was a thing, in fact) and in another they needed a co-signer (which I would have done had I known). They keep all this from me because they do not want to ask for anything. 
 

So. I had an idea about us buying a house for them, they sell the existing house, and they pay “rent” (which pays the mortgage) with the proceeds for however long it lasts/however long they can stay there/however long they are alive. At that point, we could turn it into a rental or sell it, whichever makes the most sense whenever that time would come. 
 

My sisters and I met yesterday to talk about this topic. They are not opposed to this idea, however, both warned me (rightly, I think) that they fear the scenario of mom and dad move into the house I’m hiding the mortgage on, and then drag their feet indefinitely about selling the house, mainly because the STUFF is so daunting. They both fear they would keep the old house as a storage unit of worthless crapola, while I meet the payments on the new house. AND! My sister fears they would hoard up that house too. This is clearly possible. 
 

I feel very stuck about how to proceed. I despise their current living situation. For true confessions, I have not been there in numerous years; I am pretty certain it has been twelve years since I was there for more than a few minutes. It gives me a literal panic attack. Well - it has, so now I avoid it. 
 

I feel like I owe it to them to at least *try* this plan or something like it. My sisters will not/cannot be part owners of the new house, which was initially what I thought - form an LLC and put the house in the LLC, which we partner on. But one sister cannot and one will not. 
 

If either of my parents die directly due to the unsafe conditions of their house and I did not even *try* to move them into a better situation, I think I will suffer quite a lot of guilt. And it know that could easily happen. 
 

If they would do this and it’s possible, I don’t know how I prevent them from dragging their feet on selling the house. And I don’t know how I “make” them clear out stuff. They are okayish with getting rid of actual trash - broken TVs for instance. But my mom especially would endlessly “sort” stuff and does not really have any ability to be objective about things. (This is not merely an aging issue; she has always, always been that way. She’s super attached to the “story” behind everything you can imagine.) 

Sorry I’ve written a treatise. Any advice is welcome. Any blind spots I’m not considering you’re welcome to point out. I am seriously considering drugging myself tonight because I slept maybe an hour and a half total last night. 

[Indigo Blue]

Gosh, Quill, that’s a lot. What you are thinking of doing is admirable. I don’t have any advice, except the one thing that came to mind is that maybe the rent that they pay you is considered taxable income to you? I would just just want to check on that. I’m sure there’s tons more to think of. That’s just something that stuck out to me for some reason. My husband’s mom was a hoarder. It was a lot of work when she passed. I can see why that would give you a panic attack. 

[teachermom2834]

I am sorry you are dealing with this and appreciate what you are trying to do. All I have to offer is that hoarders in their 80s are not going to stop hoarding. I think if both of your sisters anticipate the possibility of not being able to overcome this I think it is likely what will happen. Maybe someone will chime in with a good story about people that got their stuff under control but I have done deep dives on hoarding a few times in an attempt to solve a MIL issue and honestly never found anything hopeful or encouraging about helping an older person overcome it. 

We have had to come down on the refusal to take any responsibility for it side of things and there were and still are sleepless nights. 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Arcadia]

My parents moved into my first home when we relocated here because its more aged friendly than theirs. They sold their home soon after the move. We didn’t charge them any rent because  we didn’t want people saying we are taking advantage. My parents did pay for the HOA and property tax.  One thing nice about this arrangement is that if and when my dad pass, I don’t need to worry about selling any property.  

My in-laws on the other hand are hoarders and even if we could afford to buy a home for them to stay in, it would not work out. Whenever we fly back, they dump unwanted stuff on us so our luggage back is filled with unwanted “gifts”. My in-laws would not sell their home and would just add more stuff to wherever they move to. 

I think it is hard to get someone to sell their home if they are unwilling to. My parents are willing and my place is also more accessible to my brother and other relatives so they have incentive to move. 
 

We did have HRBlock did our taxes for a few years so that we don’t make a mess with owning two homes. 

[Selkie]

Could they move into an apartment or some kind of assisted living situation instead of a house? 

[ScoutTN]

2 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Could they move into an apartment or some kind of assisted living situation instead of a house? 

Yes, it sounds as though their health may require additional care before long?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Could they move into an apartment or some kind of assisted living situation instead of a house? 

They refuse to do that because they know at least 50% of their stuff would have to go. Also, my dad is extremely resistant to having other people sharing walls/the building with him. 

[Annie G]

How stressed are you going to be if they turn the house you buy into a hoarder house? 
 

There’s a lot to unwrap to be sure everything works out- like mentioned above, are you willing to deal w the paperwork/tax forms of having a rental? If you do it, keep really good records so if they need to go on Medicaid for a nursing home you can document how their house proceeds were used to avoid any kind of lookback issues.

I’d be looking for an apartment or even a rental house for them before buying a place for them. Make sure they get their current house sold and stuff sorted out. Then if you buying a house for them makes sense, you can do that. 
 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Annie G said:

There’s a lot to unwrap to be sure everything works out- like mentioned above, are you willing to deal w the paperwork/tax forms of having a rental? If you do it, keep really good records so if they need to go on Medicaid for a nursing home you can document how their house proceeds were used to avoid any kind of lookback issues.

We do already have other rental houses and properties we manage. I guess that was why it seemed like a simple expansion of what we are already doing. 
 

I have wondered about the look back issue. 

[Lori D.]

^^^ Agreeing with above posters that a senior apartment situation with possible optional meal/cafeteria and cleaning/laundry add-on fees as they need more help later on would be ideal. However, we're not in a super high COL place, and here, even small senior apartments that are decent run around $2500/month -- WITHOUT the using the available add-ons. Add-on services can run you up to $3000-$4000/month.

However, not sure a new house is going to be worth it for all the work it would be for you and your siblings -- it's astonishing how FAST health can deteriorate once a person is in their 80s, and especially when they are moved from their long-time comfort zones.

From what I've seen here with extended relatives, and from posts on these boards -- selling/moving out of one house and moving into another smaller house ends up JUST getting them settled and in 1-5 years, it's turning around and having to move them into assisted living/nursing. Is ALL of the work of dejunking / fixing up / selling / moving / getting settled going to be WORTH it to you and your siblings, if that new place potentially turns into a much shorter time frame solution than you are envisioning right now?

If a senior apt. place is not in the budget right now, at least, what about a much smaller (1-2 bedroom / 1 bath) and lower-cost condo or town home with NO yard?

ETA -- never mind, I was crossposting as you listed why an apt. would be resisted by parents. ☹️

Edited October 25, 2022 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

They refuse to do that because they know at least 50% of their stuff would have to go. Also, my dad is extremely resistant to having other people sharing walls/the building with him. 

There comes a point in these situations where someone does not get what they want -- either they stay where they are, and just have to cope on their own because no one can help them. Or adult children band together and override elderly parents objections and muscle them into a better situation.

Or, I guess it can be a situation of everyone just waiting until the health dominoes start tumbling over, and they have no more choice about their living situation. 😢

I'm sorry you're approaching a difficult crossroads. Hugs, and hoping a great solution arises.

[Grace Hopper]

7 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

There comes a point in these situations where someone does not get what they want -- either they stay where they are, and just have to cope on their own because no one can help them. Or adult children band together and override elderly parents objections and muscle them into a better situation.

Or, I guess it can be a situation of everyone just waiting until the health dominoes start tumbling over, and they have no more choice about their living situation. 😢

I'm sorry you're approaching a difficult crossroads. Hugs, and hoping a great solution arises.

Or, someone makes a call to Elder Services for a welfare check, which may result in assistance to remedy the hoarding/dwelling safety. 
 

Sorry, Quill, it’s a tough spot. 

[SKL]

I think this is a fairly common problem, at least parts of it.  It is so easy to build up crap in the house, and once you are old and "not spry," the mere thought of tackling the hoard is exhausting, even for people who aren't actual "hoarders."

My folks have a lot of crap in their house.  I used to tell myself and them that I was gonna come over and just clean and purge like crazy.  But I have too much life going on for that to become reality.  Right now I'm thinking I will just offer to put a couple boxes of old books or other crap in my car when I leave after each visit.  A long term plan, but better than nothing, and maybe a start that will lead somewhere.  I do have 5 siblings, so if we could each do something like that, it might make a dent over time.

Meanwhile, my mom is too embarrassed to let paid cleaners come in (I've offered to pay any amount for that).

My folks have a variety of health issues, including the fact that my mom is nearly blind and can hardly walk or even sit for long.  She still does laundry in the basement.  I told them I wanted to fund a project to build a laundry room in a small room they have off the kitchen.  My dad was all for it, but my mom vetoed it.  She doesn't want to change things up when she can hardly see, was her logic.  She's the boss, so that's that.

My folks' house is pretty big.  They bought it when their 6 kids were all minors.  It's not completely hoarded, but I can't really imagine them throwing everything out in order to move to a smaller place.  Maybe if it gets to a point where they literally can't physically get around, which hopefully will not happen.  The house is over 100 years old and not in the best shape, but not falling down either.

Unlike your situation, though, my folks don't live far from all of their kids.  Several live pretty close by and visit fairly often.  My dad tries to keep the main parts of the house in good enough shape so his kids won't freak out, LOL.  Also, my brother, who visits often, is a geriatric nurse, so I am not worried that their health is not being looked after.  So moving isn't a thought at this point, but cleaning out the house would be a nice goal.

If your folks are in danger of getting hurt or sick due to the condition of the house, well, based on watching Hoarders, you could threaten them with a call to social services if they won't get help cleaning it out.  But if at all possible, it might work best to break the job down into really small parts.  For example, suppose there is a small room that could be used for temporary storage but is currently full of decades-old crap.  Get your folks' permission to clear that out (might need to rent a dumpster multiple times).  Then tackle another small room, using the first room to spread things out in order to evaluate what's to be discarded / donated / restored and kept.  If this is broken into small enough tasks, while it will take a long time, it might lift your folks' spirits and inspire them.  (But you don't really want them doing the cleaning themselves, as they could get hurt.)  You could hire a cleaning company to clean just the kitchen, bathrooms, and whatever other rooms have been cleared.  That way things don't go right back to where they started.

Since your folks are about an hour away, what if you siblings could take turns going out there once every week or so?  At each visit, even just carrying out a box or two of garbage could help to clear a space where you wouldn't feel horrible visiting.

[teachermom2834]

Quill, would your folks even let you and your siblings help them clean out? Are they overwhelmed by the stuff and just can’t physically deal with it or do they not want to get rid of it? It sound like they want to keep it all. 
 

Some older people are physically unable but some really refuse to give up their stuff. If they want their stuff more than they want to be in safer more manageable conditions you are really in a jam. 

[Annie G]

20 minutes ago, Quill said:

We do already have other rental houses and properties we manage. I guess that was why it seemed like a simple expansion of what we are already doing. 
 

I have wondered about the look back issue. 

Good that you already have rentals.  If you rent to family below market rates, you’ll likely not be able to consider it a rental house and can’t take the tax deductions on it.  You probably already know this, but did want to mention it. 
Look back shouldn’t be an issue if you have good records.  But again, as landlords I’m sure you’re keeping detailed records anyway so that won’t be an issue. 
Hope something works out for you- you’re a nice daughter for trying to improve their loving conditions. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Honestly, I think you may be better off waiting until a crisis point and when one moves to a nursing home, moving the other to a small apartment near by. The house may sit for quite a while, but if it is already in tear down condition, that may be ok. 
 

If one is already hoarding, it suggests anxious thought processes and I don’t see an attempt to move them and their stuff going well…at least for the hoarder.

ETA: having no assets should help with qualifying for a nursing home, but you should be looking for a list of facilities that would take them near you or your siblings if no one is planning on being a caretaker.

Edited October 25, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[Jaybee]

7 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Quill, would your folks even let you and your siblings help them clean out? Are they overwhelmed by the stuff and just can’t physically deal with it or do they not want to get rid of it? It sound like they want to keep it all. 
 

Some older people are physically unable but some really refuse to give up their stuff. If they want their stuff more than they want to be in safer more manageable conditions you are really in a jam. 

Yeah, I am wondering this too. I am thinking they may not be interested in your (Quill's) plan. 

[City Mouse]

I think becoming a landlord to elderly parents is a terrible idea. Your sisters are right, it would just create more problems. My sister, who owned the house my mom lived in until recently, had to threaten my mom with eviction to get her to move into the assisted living apartment that my dad had already moved into (totally his own decision). My mother could barely go to the restroom by herself much less handle any other activities of daily living, but for months she refused assisted living.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, SKL said:

Since your folks are about an hour away, what if you siblings could take turns going out there once every week or so?  At each visit, even just carrying out a box or two of garbage could help to clear a space where you wouldn't feel horrible visiting.

It doesn’t work in the long run. My sister already did that for six years. My mom especially will play head games about stuff. Like hiding it if she knows my sister is coming for a cleanup session. Or giving things to people and then wanting it back. 
 

 

[Innisfree]

This is a dark view of this scenario, so fair warning.

We dealt with something similar as my parents aged. It was difficult, and caused lasting unhappiness to my mother, even though we did the best we possibly could. I think sometimes you get to the point where there aren’t going to be happy endings. You just minimize the harm as best you can, and hope you’re making the right decisions, and never really know if you did. You have to be all right knowing you did the best you could.

There were some advantages we had over your situation. My folks could afford to buy a different house, and my father desperately wanted to clear out the junk. That meant that together, he and I could essentially pressure my mother into accepting a move, at least long enough to sign the papers. 

Their old house was at the point of being unsafe, due to both the accumulation of stuff and my mom’s increasing infirmities. If we had left her there, she would have died in some sort of accident. Moving her was traumatic enough for her that I have occasionally wondered if that would have been kinder.

Do not expect them to willingly participate in sorting through junk, or accept your decisions about what is worth keeping. Do expect scenes like emptying trash cans across the front lawn in order to save the valuables you’re tossing.

Do not expect that living in a house clear of junk will be a relief to them. We never, ever stopped hearing about the irreplaceable things left behind. Hoarding comes from a place of deep loss and grief, or at least it did in our case. Losing more stuff becomes unbearable, and no one else can be trusted to make those decisions. We erred on the side of bringing as much as possible, down to boxes of magazine clippings from the fifties and sixties. But she was never convinced that precious things hadn’t been left behind, and she agonized over their loss.

We hired cleaning help in order to prevent new accumulations. That strategy was moderately successful, but my mother resented the loss of control. 

If both of my parents had wanted to preserve the status quo, I don’t think we could have moved them.

9 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Honestly, I think you may be better off waiting until a crisis point and when one moves to a nursing home, moving the other to a small apartment near by. The house may sit for quite a while, but if it is already in tear down condition, that may be ok. 
 

If one is already hoarding, it suggests anxious thought processes and I don’t see an attempt to move them and their stuff going well…at least for the hoarder.

ETA: having no assets should help with qualifying for a nursing home, but you should be looking for a list of facilities that would take them near you or your siblings if no one is planning on being a caretaker.

 I agree with this. I wish I had more optimism to offer.

[LifeLovePassion]

Unfortunately my parents refused to move/ bring in help. There house had lots of my stuff due to then living there over 40 years, but not hoarder type of stuff. Mom had an underlying health issue, dad deteriorated relatively quickly and was in denial " the doctors don't know what's wrong". He was hospitalized and mom had to go into emergency assisted living. He passed within a week and  she moved into a permanent assisted living after we found a better location/permanent space. We had to have an estate sale and sell the house. That all feel on me as my brothers were less than helpful. 

Long story short, they refused and help until a crisis and that is very common. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, I wish I had a better story. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

Yeah, I am wondering this too. I am thinking they may not be interested in your (Quill's) plan. 

They would want the new house near my sister part, but my sisters are right about them not wanting to clean out the old house. 
 

There are certain things that they would not let go of no matter how nonsensical it is, for example, my grandmother’s dining room furniture. This is why they wouldn’t agree to move to a condo or apartment. 

[teachermom2834]

We are waiting for a crisis point with my MIL. We had all kinds of suggestions and plans and help we were willing to offer but when it really came down to it her hoard is the most important thing to her. More important than having visitors or being safe or having order. 
 

It is super sad but she would rather have a crisis in her hoard than give up her hoard. It makes me crazy but I guess it is her choice to make. She is legally competent and she is making that choice. 
 

So we are in the position of just waiting now. 😟

[Guest]

@Innisfree, your post is like a window into the future if I go this direction. I know that is 100% how they would respond to the “loss” of even the most absurd things. 

[Annie G]

Sadly, our experience is much like @Innisfree described. In-laws just couldn’t go through their stuff and didn’t want us to do it, either. Even though they knew they were moving to a new, smaller place. As it turned out, both passed away before SIL finished building the house. 
However, we still had to go through the same craziness when emptying the house after they passed away. SIL told us to handle the garage, and we did. Piled 13 bags of trash at the curb. She then got furious that we threw things away without telling her and she went through each and every bag. She found a plastic beach shovel that she claimed MIL used to garden (it was a shovel our kids used when we took them to the beach when we visited, but whatever).  SIL no longer speaks to us because we did such unspeakable acts like throwing away that shovel.  She’s exactly like her parents, and I know that’s the kind of torment we would have gone through had we ever managed to move them. 
 

The attachment to stuff is a lot more complicated than just getting rid of stuff.  

[Guest]

For people saying it will change when there is a crisis, I feel like that has already been true numerous times. <snipped>
please do not quote any of this humiliating stuff. And it’s honestly just the tip of the iceberg as to all the unbelievably horrrifying things they have used as “solutions” for problems that should have long since been the crisis that forceD them out. 
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS PART. I will erase it. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Quill

[Innisfree]

23 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Innisfree, your post is like a window into the future if I go this direction. I know that is 100% how they would respond to the “loss” of even the most absurd things. 

I’m sorry. There’s not an easy answer. Possibly forcing the situation to change is the right choice; just be prepared.

[katilac]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

For people saying it will change when there is a crisis, I feel like that has already been true numerous times.  

No, none of what you listed is a crisis. It's less than ideal, but it's not a crisis. 

A crisis is a stroke,  a fall with broken hip, setting the kitchen on fire, that kind of thing. A scenario where one of them cannot take care of themselves hardlty at all, and the other one cannot take on their care. 

 

[teachermom2834]

I’m sorry Quill. It is heartbreaking and super frustrating because there are other solutions. But without their participation in them you are really limited. 
 

But my use of the word crisis had a more dire meaning. We have and do have all that you mentioned going on and it is status quo. Not enough to generate a change.

Edited October 25, 2022 by teachermom2834

[katilac]

It's important to remember that, should one spouse need medicaid long term coverage, the house and a certain amount of cash are protected for the other. 

If assets after selling the house will be less than about $138,000 then this doesn't apply. 

Edited to add: are you parents pretty happy where they are or not? There's only so much you can do. If they are pretty happy living there, distressed at the thought of moving, and opposed to making changers . . .at some point it's just accepting that yes, something will probably happen at home sooner than it would if they were getting care, but a shorter time lived on your own terms is sometimes preferable. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by katilac

[ericathemom]

29 minutes ago, Quill said:

There are certain things that they would not let go of no matter how nonsensical it is, for example, my grandmother’s dining room furniture

It's is so very hard watching our loved ones act so stubbornly when you have what could be a safer living situation. However, we too, had to wait through several crisis' until my father-in-law was forced to move. He fell and broke his neck (but was not paralyzed) but that didn't get him to move. He crashed his car several times (didn't move but did consent to stop driving). He finally fell and broke his hip and since he had always refused to widen doorways or put in ramps, he physically couldn't live there anymore.

It sounds like your parents have chosen to live in that house in those conditions. They will experience the consequences of that. And that is their choice. You can prepare for the eventual crisis. You can have numbers of assured living facilities, etc. But as an outsider, what I'm seeing is that you'll need to wait for them to be ready on their timeline.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

No, none of what you listed is a crisis. It's less than ideal, but it's not a crisis. 

A crisis is a stroke,  a fall with broken hip, setting the kitchen on fire, that kind of thing. A scenario where one of them cannot take care of themselves hardlty at all, and the other one cannot take on their care. 

 

It is almost like that right now. My mom could not last one day there alone. And my dad is just a heart attack away from that scenario.  As nd they are both a fall risk

[regentrude]

We had an elder issue on somewhat different lines, with the infirm elder (blind and bedridden) resisting any move which would have been the sensible solution the son was offering, to the point of complete estrangement and elder withdrawing POA from son.

We have come to the view that, unless they are of definitely unsound mind/ in dementia, the elder has the right to choose to live in whatever circumstances they wish, even if the family consider it unwise/unsafe/unpleasant. Until declared legally incompetent, the elder have the right to stay in whatever living situation they choose.

Their right to decide to live in unsafe squalor with their hoard trumps any responsibilities you feel you might owe them.

Edited October 25, 2022 by regentrude

[lauraw4321]

I would start with a consultation to an elder law attorney who understands Medicaid laws. They will have undoubtedly dealt with similar scenarios. Then ask yourself what you need to do and offer to sleep well at night. 

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

It is almost like that right now. My mom could not last one day there alone. And my dad is just a heart attack away from that scenario.  As nd they are both a fall risk

Right, but someone who is a fall risk has the right to remain in their home. Someone who actually breaks their hip will be taken away by ambulance and admitted to the hospital. 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

Edited to add: are you parents pretty happy where they are or not?

I don’t think so. They want to be near my sister; they even love her church (which is essential). There are bad traffic problems where they live, which they hate. 

[Starr]

I would also look into what care is available, home care, assisted living , whatever might be next. And have a couple places picked out. See what the financial requirements are etc. If your dad is suddenly unable to care for your mom you'll be ready. These situations are so difficult.  

[regentrude]

Just now, Quill said:

I don’t think so. They want to be near my sister; they even love her church (which is essential). There are bad traffic problems where they live, which they hate. 

But do they want this badly enough so that they choose to declutter their house to sell and get help for their hoarding problem?

They could make this choice. They could ask for help. But unless they do, and rather cling to their current situation, they aren't ready.

[Guest]

Just now, regentrude said:

But do they want this badly enough so that they choose to declutter their house to sell and get help for their hoarding problem?

They could make this choice. They could ask for help. But unless they do, and rather cling to their current situation, they aren't ready.

Nope. But part of that is money. They do not have the resources to buy a house. So there is no way for the situation to change unless either the resources come from elsewhere or somebody falls down the basement stairs and dies there. 
 

i really should not be doing this thread when I should be going to sleep. I never learn

[SKL]

Is there a middle ground - move them closer to your sister, but let the old house stay theirs?  Is the old house paid off? 

Perhaps a service could be paid to sort through the stuff at the house after your folks move, to make it easier for your folks to decide what to do with the stuff?  For example, maybe there is a ton of newspapers in various places throughout the house.  Your folks are never going to read those newspapers.  One of the things my folks have a lot of is kids' books.  Even the grandkids are too old for those books now.  They can go.  Old outdated things they will never use again because they've upgraded technology (DVDs, big fat computer monitors, etc.).  Your folks won't fight about actual trash, right?

I can understand your folks wanting to save actual furniture.  Maybe it would go easier if they could give that furniture to a young adult grandchild, so they wouldn't feel like "perfectly good things" are being wasted.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Annie G said:

How stressed are you going to be if they turn the house you buy into a hoarder house? 
 

Honestly, this was my first thought, as well. 
 

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think so. They want to be near my sister; they even love her church (which is essential). There are bad traffic problems where they live, which they hate. 

 

8 minutes ago, Quill said:

Nope. But part of that is money. They do not have the resources to buy a house.

In that case, if I could afford to, I would pay for a few months rental for an elderly friendly apartment near your sister and see how it goes. My in-laws hoard for emotional reasons so I would not want to be their landlord. I think they equate less stuff to being poor.

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, Quill said:

Nope. But part of that is money. They do not have the resources to buy a house. So there is no way for the situation to change unless either the resources come from elsewhere or somebody falls down the basement stairs and dies there. 

Or if they really wanted to move, they could decide to rent an apartment and get over their insistence on buying a house they can't afford. That would be a simple solution they could choose. They just don't want to. And I don't think it's your responsibility to cater to this particular whim.

[prairiewindmomma]

I will try to put this delicately…it may become apparently as you clear the old home (whenever that time is) that you don’t want to move old furniture into a new one due to…contamination issues.  Anything paper or soft surface (couch, mattresses, etc.) is likely unhealthy either due to dust mites or critter leavings.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

In that case, if I could afford to, I would pay for a few months rental for an elderly friendly apartment near your sister and see how it goes. 

OP said they refuse to move into an apartment. 

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

OP said they refuse to move into an apartment. 

I understand. If it is for a short term rental they may be willing just to be near their daughter? If it is a sell their home and move permanently, they may not be willing to give it a try. Here there are also senior communities where the apartments are more like stand alone small cottages. 

[Innisfree]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

Perhaps a service could be paid to sort through the stuff at the house after your folks move, to make it easier for your folks to decide what to do with the stuff?  For example, maybe there is a ton of newspapers in various places throughout the house.  Your folks are never going to read those newspapers.  One of the things my folks have a lot of is kids' books.  Even the grandkids are too old for those books now.  They can go.  Old outdated things they will never use again because they've upgraded technology (DVDs, big fat computer monitors, etc.).  Your folks won't fight about actual trash, right?

I think you’re not understanding the nature of hoarding. My mother was absolutely convinced that she would, indeed, read the newspapers. In fact, she had volunteered to scan papers for references to groups she had been involved with, and never mind that the papers were now five years old, she felt an obligation to the groups to keep the papers until she got through them. Kids’ books have strong emotions and memories attached. Old outdated things might hold some irreplaceable bit of information. Yes, people will absolutely fight about actual trash. If there’s no other reason, the fact that some other person is making decisions about their stuff is enough to trigger panic.

[SKL]

8 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I think you’re not understanding the nature of hoarding. My mother was absolutely convinced that she would, indeed, read the newspapers. In fact, she had volunteered to scan papers for references to groups she had been involved with, and never mind that the papers were now five years old, she felt an obligation to the groups to keep the papers until she got through them. Kids’ books have strong emotions and memories attached. Old outdated things might hold some irreplaceable bit of information. Yes, people will absolutely fight about actual trash. If there’s no other reason, the fact that some other person is making decisions about their stuff is enough to trigger panic.

I think Quill said that her folks' house is "close to hoarder status" after many years.  It's not clear that they have the mental disorder of hoarding.  It may be that they just have a lot of crap accumulated and it's too big of a job for them to deal with it.  I would put my folks in that category.  There is no way my parents can go through all the crap in their house, but due to physical, not mental limitations.  (They do have some things that only they view as valuable, but not to the extent of pathological hoarding.  I mean, don't most of us have "collections" that our kids will discard when we die ....)

[happi duck]

Many (hugs)

I think you'd need to go into this able to both pay the mortgage on your own and also plan on it being a hoard.

 

[bookbard]

I actually think the idea of renting a place near the sister's for a 'vacation' or whatever would be a good one. I mean, something to bring up and see what they think. You'd just have to be careful the rented place didn't end up getting full of stuff too. 

In our situation, repeated falls made it clear she needed to be in aged care; fortunately, she was happy with that as she was lonely, and she enjoyed her time there until she died last year from cancer. She did still end up filling the aged care unit with lots of things (and we still have a shed-full of stuff we're slowly going through).