Teachers? Parents? Does anyone have advice for my daughter? UPDATE

[Amethyst]

My dd25 is not brand new to teaching. She taught virtually in 2020, then 4th grade in a small city for one year. Then 4th grade in a suburb of DC for one year. She is back living at home now, and we were very excited that she finally got a job in our school district which is the best school district around for many many miles.

But she’s teaching first grade. 

AND she has a very problematic child in her class. I think this child makes the whole class unruly. She has spoken with the parents (who explained the child was traumatized from their divorce, he is seeing a therapist, and diagnosed with anxiety and depression). She has spoken to/cried to the principal (it’s the principal’s first year in an elementary school; previously in middle school). 

DD is at her wit’s end. No one in the class listens, but the one child throws things (pencils especially but also water bottles or whatever is handy) and occasionally hits classmates with the flying objects, has punched a girl in the eye, has kicked a boy in the back, tells my daughter how much he hates her. 

It all sounds so very miserable. I feel for my daughter, but I’m very concerned that a child will get seriously hurt. Principal has been sitting in dd’s class since she became aware of the problem for hours for the past week. Principal has also yelled at the class. Nothing is working. They are slightly better when principal is there, but if she leaves the room, pencils start flying! It’s just not sustainable for the principal to stay there indefinitely. 

Principal and counseling office have suggested strategies. They’re not working. DD feels like they have to do these strategies to show they tried everything before he can be tested for spec ed or emotional support or whatever the poor kid needs. That can’t be true? Can it??

I am very concerned that a child will get seriously hurt. 

Any strategies for control, or advice for handling these behavior issues in a class?

UPDATE: They are moving him to a different classroom! And the parents agreed to have him evaluated for emotional disorder. Poor kid. But dd is sooo relieved. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Amethyst

[Kassia]

I have no advice but just wanted to say I'm sorry your dd is having this experience and hope this gets resolved without any children getting hurt?  Must be so frustrating and stressful.  😞

[2squared]

This sounds like a kid who needs a FT para assigned to him. 

[Amethyst]

9 minutes ago, 2squared said:

This sounds like a kid who needs a FT para assigned to him. 

I agree! But without an IEP, how can that happen?

[happi duck]

I'm surprised there isn't an aide assigned to that student while they start getting testing going.

I wonder what the child's therapist would recommend.

[happi duck]

Just now, Amethyst said:

I agree! But without an IEP, how can that happen?

It's years ago, but when I had a student acting out in a dangerous way he had an aide while testing happened. 

[happi duck]

What are your dd's rules?  Rewards? Consequences?

[Hilltopmom]

Yes they need to try everything to have data before requesting an eval for an iep. Child needs an FBA and then a BIP. Special Ed processes though. Not a fast solution.

No para until iep, at least not officially.

It’s rough out there these days. I’m having my hardest year ever this year. 
But these instances of behaviors are becoming more and more common- kids without IEPs who we must evacuate the classroom for violent behaviors. 
Is there a crisis team to call? Is Dd trained in de escalation & restraint?

It may not be the right setting for the child or it may be and they’ll just have to deal with it all year/ less and less kids going to special classes or schools now. We always have a few children who tear the room apart on a daily basis in our primary wing (not special Ed kids, no IEPs). It’s just seems to be like that now.
 

More support (ie- xtra adult) happens faster when the other parents start calling admin to complain about the dangerous kid.

For the rest of the class- behavior plan, re teaching behaviors, etc

eta- things have been getting bad for the last I dunno, 5 years but since covid it’s crazy what’s going on daily. Kids are out of control, none of my usual tool box of teacher tricks works, and parents are completely hands off- letting their 9 year olds stay up on electronics all night and do whatever they want. 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[Bootsie]

I am sorry that you daughter is dealing with such a bad situation.  Has there been any time in the year that this one student has not been in the classroom?  How are the class dynamics at that point?  

[prairiewindmomma]

An aide  can be assigned in my district while an IEP is pending. The justification would be classified as student control- physical intervention under my district’s policy. She has enough documentation of incidents.

[Jean in Newcastle]

At that age I would suspect a child who needs new strategies for dealing with frustration. Some ideas:  some pictures of emotions to help him identify how he’s feeling. A script for how to say with words how he’s feeling:  “I am frustrated.”  “I am mad.”  And a prearranged spot for him to go to for calming down. 

[Hilltopmom]

12 minutes ago, happi duck said:

It's years ago, but when I had a student acting out in a dangerous way he had an aide while testing happened. 

If we have an extra person they do try to do this- they can’t officially be a 1:1 with out an iep. But it’s almost impossible to find aides anymore- the pay is so low.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[alisoncooks]

I taught 1st grade years ago. We spent the first 2-3 weeks of the school year learning nothing but routines.  How to come into the room, how to hang up belongings, the daily schedule, ordering lunch. The more established a routine, the less room for chaos.  Maybe she needs a reset and routines established more firmly.

I also had a behavioral management system (the stop light system with loss of privilege and chances for reset). 

I had a few instances with troubled kids and violent tantrums. One thing we did was remove the whole class (sent outside or to the empty auditorium or library) until the outburst was over. One principal then would require the parent to come take the child home. The other school/principal didn’t do that, but the boy did settle down over time. 

[Hilltopmom]

8 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

At that age I would suspect a child who needs new strategies for dealing with frustration. Some ideas:  some pictures of emotions to help him identify how he’s feeling. A script for how to say with words how he’s feeling:  “I am frustrated.”  “I am mad.”  And a prearranged spot for him to go to for calming down. 

Yes to all of this. Calm down corner in room, breathing tools, break opportunities, consistent reward for every x number of minutes without meltdown, technique teaching, counseling support. Calm down area outside of room too.

and tracking all of the behaviors for data collection needed to get support.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[itsheresomewhere]

If the parents are against/in denial that testing is needed,  this is how is happens in the districts around me.  The schools must show how they tried all the suggestions and it didn’t change anything. They have to have lots of evidence to back up their opinion that the child needs help.   The districts will not appoint an aide for the kid here until the IEP is done.  Now if the districts have enough help/budget they will get a classroom aide to help.  

[Tap]

19 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

If the parents are against/in denial that testing is needed,  this is how is happens in the districts around me.  The schools must show how they tried all the suggestions and it didn’t change anything. They have to have lots of evidence to back up their opinion that the child needs help.   The districts will not appoint an aide for the kid here until the IEP is done.  Now if the districts have enough help/budget they will get a classroom aide to help.  

Not disagreeing but my experience was not this. I fought the school to escalate my child getting tested and moved out of gen ed. I paid for a neuropsych evaluation and they did nothing with it. The school is the one who cried “we have to use minimally invasive tactics first” and “ collect more data”. ugh!!! They tried for 4 years before moving her to an appropriate school. (She was attacking other kids at this point) They were trying to use sticker charts when she was stabbing paras in the hand and threatening to “kill and kick the bus drivers teeth in”. She was sent home or suspended  probably 20 times in 1st grade alone but they wouldn’t move her from gen ed. At one point I was told she needed to ‘want help’ before anything good would come out of it.  Umm she is an autistic 5yo….. she doesn’t know what  that means. When she got moved to a special school in 3rd grade, after a single month of decent ( not great) behavior they were trying to move her back to gen ed. As a legal guardian( she is genetically my niece), I legally had to send her to school, but she had no right to be as horrible as she was to the staff and students. She had wayyyyyy more rights than the NT kids who just wanted to go to school. The school has 100% of the control in these cases.

[bookbard]

If your daughter can't get an aide immediately, can she create a safe space in the classroom for child (even if it means putting the child on a screen for a bit). Then she could take a look at the rest of the class - explicit rules and really clear routines, so there is no question about what happens next.

Look at things like - are things falling off the desk/can everything be removed from the desk/can a special box be affixed to the desk to stop things falling (I found this a huge issue in kids with EF issues). 

Visual supports. Super important. Pictures of what is happening so it is 100% clear. She can look online for ideas. 

Taking data would be helpful but tricky. It could be as simple as having a sheet of paper with times already listed on it (say each half hour) and she could mark that time if he's acting up. That would give her some good info about how often and when, if it relates to certain times. 

Oh, one thing that she might look out for - is there a natural leader in the class? Getting that person on side can change everything.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by bookbard

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, happi duck said:

What are your dd's rules?  Rewards? Consequences?

Take away recess. Have lunch in the principal's office. But she says they emphasize "recognize the good behaviors". Kids can earn "mascot money" (I'm changing the name of the actual mascot). She has rules in place. She has been doing this for a couple of years, and has had to deal with some behavior problems of course, but this seems extreme

[EKS]

22 minutes ago, Tap said:

She had wayyyyyy more rights than the NT kids who just wanted to go to school.

This is the thing I don't understand.  Perhaps someone can explain it to me.

(And note that I had a child who was disruptive when he was in first grade.  It was one of the reasons we decided to homeschool him.)

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, Hilltopmom said:

Yes they need to try everything to have data before requesting an eval for an iep. Child needs an FBA and then a BIP. Special Ed processes though. Not a fast solution.

No para until iep, at least not officially.

It’s rough out there these days. I’m having my hardest year ever this year. 
But these instances of behaviors are becoming more and more common- kids without IEPs who we must evacuate the classroom for violent behaviors. 
Is there a crisis team to call? Is Dd trained in de escalation & restraint?

At her last school, if there was a problem, she called the counselors which were two burly guys who removed the child. Nothing at this place. 

1 hour ago, Hilltopmom said:

It may not be the right setting for the child or it may be and they’ll just have to deal with it all year/ less and less kids going to special classes or schools now. We always have a few children who tear the room apart on a daily basis in our primary wing (not special Ed kids, no IEPs). It’s just seems to be like that now.
 

More support (ie- xtra adult) happens faster when the other parents start calling admin to complain about the dangerous kid.

I can't imagine what I would do if I heard this stuff was going on in my child's class. I was furious when another kid poked a pencil at my son's face in CCD class. Once. But every day this is going on. I'd be on the phone every day. No I wouldn't. I'd homeschool. lol

1 hour ago, Hilltopmom said:

For the rest of the class- behavior plan, re teaching behaviors, etc

eta- things have been getting bad for the last I dunno, 5 years but since covid it’s crazy what’s going on daily. Kids are out of control, none of my usual tool box of teacher tricks works, and parents are completely hands off- letting their 9 year olds stay up on electronics all night and do whatever they want. 

 

This is the "best" school district she has worked in. I'm surprised this is happening here. I surprised parents aren't up in arms.

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, happi duck said:

 

I wonder what the child's therapist would recommend.

Apparently, there is a big process to get the therapist to release records to the school. But they have started the process..

[Innisfree]

10 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

But she says they emphasize "recognize the good behaviors".

Over the long term, this is one of the best ways to modify behavior. They’re not wrong, even though that’s inadequate support for this situation.

Our local schools also have to try gradual increases in support, in order to document that the child needs more help than they’re currently getting. I know one thing they do in situations like this is to remove all the other kids from the classroom when one kid has a meltdown. It’s extremely disruptive to everyone, but it lets the kid who’s out of control calm down without further endangering other kids.

One suggestion I would make for your dd is to read The Explosive Child, by Ross Greene. It’s pure gold for learning how to help kids who are melting down regularly. As far as that goes, she should recommend it to his parents as well. As Greene says, kids do well when they can. That can be hard to remember in stressful moments, but absorbing that insight is essential.

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I am sorry that you daughter is dealing with such a bad situation.  Has there been any time in the year that this one student has not been in the classroom?  How are the class dynamics at that point?  

It is better when he is out of the classroom. Not perfect, but I believe she could get them under control if he wasn't there. She has handled classroom behavior problems in the past. 

[footballmom]

Is his kindergarten teacher still at the school? Maybe their insights on what worked last year?

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

An aide  can be assigned in my district while an IEP is pending. The justification would be classified as student control- physical intervention under my district’s policy. She has enough documentation of incidents.

She says she has been carefully documenting everything. The school counselor is only at her school part-time. It doesn't seem like they are moving to have him evaluated for an IEP yet. She says he has no difficulty with learning so he wouldn't warrant and IEP. But what about ED? Based on what the parent has said, it seems like ED might be a thing here.

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

At that age I would suspect a child who needs new strategies for dealing with frustration. Some ideas:  some pictures of emotions to help him identify how he’s feeling. A script for how to say with words how he’s feeling:  “I am frustrated.”  “I am mad.”  And a prearranged spot for him to go to for calming down. 

Maybe. She says he doesn't throw fits. He doesn't get angry. DD's interpretation is that he wants peer acceptance, so he is acting out to get their attention. Obviously, the poor kid is hurting in some ways, but it's not like tantrums. Maybe she could explore these ideas with him. I'll suggest it to her. 

[Amethyst]

1 hour ago, Hilltopmom said:

 But it’s almost impossible to find aides anymore- the pay is so low.

So very very true. So many openings around here for spec ed and aides. But low pay. Such a frustrating situation. I wouldn't want my kids in school nowadays. Oh wait. I never did. lol

[vonfirmath]

14 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Over the long term, this is one of the best ways to modify behavior. They’re not wrong, even though that’s inadequate support for this situation.

Our local schools also have to try gradual increases in support, in order to document that the child needs more help than they’re currently getting. I know one thing they do in situations like this is to remove all the other kids from the classroom when one kid has a meltdown. It’s extremely disruptive to everyone, but it lets the kid who’s out of control calm down without further endangering other kids.

One suggestion I would make for your dd is to read The Explosive Child, by Ross Greene. It’s pure gold for learning how to help kids who are melting down regularly. As far as that goes, she should recommend it to his parents as well. As Greene says, kids do well when they can. That can be hard to remember in stressful moments, but absorbing that insight is essential.

This is what happened when my daughter was in 2nd grade. There was a student who was throwing desks, etc in her classroom. The whole class would go to another teacher's classroom/early recess/etc. while the boy got himself under control.

 

She's sixth grade now and the boy is still in some of her classes. (Very bright.) But there has not been a single issue this year. So over the ensuing years he's learned more ways to handle frustration, etc.  

[vonfirmath]

2 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

Maybe. She says he doesn't throw fits. He doesn't get angry. DD's interpretation is that he wants peer acceptance, so he is acting out to get their attention. Obviously, the poor kid is hurting in some ways, but it's not like tantrums. Maybe she could explore these ideas with him. I'll suggest it to her. 

My son would act out when the situation was chaotic, trying to "take control" of something inherently out of his control.  (Or that's the best reason I was ever able to figure). He was never violent, thankfully. More careless.

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, Tap said:

Not disagreeing but my experience was not this. I fought the school to escalate my child getting tested and moved out of gen ed. I paid for a neuropsych evaluation and they did nothing with it. The school is the one who cried “we have to use minimally invasive tactics first” and “ collect more data”. ugh!!! They tried for 4 years before moving her to an appropriate school. (She was attacking other kids at this point) They were trying to use sticker charts when she was stabbing paras in the hand and threatening to “kill and kick the bus drivers teeth in”. She was sent home or suspended  probably 20 times in 1st grade alone but they wouldn’t move her from gen ed. At one point I was told she needed to ‘want help’ before anything good would come out of it.  Umm she is an autistic 5yo….. she doesn’t know what  that means. When she got moved to a special school in 3rd grade, after a single month of decent ( not great) behavior they were trying to move her back to gen ed. As a legal guardian( she is genetically my niece), I legally had to send her to school, but she had no right to be as horrible as she was to the staff and students. She had wayyyyyy more rights than the NT kids who just wanted to go to school. The school has 100% of the control in these cases.

I fought tooth and nail like you did for my own DS before removing him to homeschool. Usually, it is the parents suing for help.  But we have a new crop of parents here who are so in denial that it is really sad.  Our crappy district had to go to court with some parents over getting their kids help he so desperately needed but the parents didn’t want the label.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by itsheresomewhere

[Amethyst]

8 minutes ago, footballmom said:

Is his kindergarten teacher still at the school? Maybe their insights on what worked last year?

Yes. Apparently he loved his kindergarten teacher. She has over 30 year teaching experience. I don't think she has given any insight though. He was fine in kindergarten, dd says. But maybe she should talk to kindy teacher. Good idea. I'll suggest that.

[Bootsie]

14 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

It is better when he is out of the classroom. Not perfect, but I believe she could get them under control if he wasn't there. She has handled classroom behavior problems in the past. 

Group dynamics can be strong.  Sometimes there is a significant class of personalities in a classroom; or certain behaviors intensify the behavior in other students.  If other children in the room aren't listening and the principal is in the classroom yelling, he may be reacting to a chaotic environment in more extreme ways than other students, especially if he has chaos in his home life and if the kindergarten teacher did not experience anything out of the ordinary.  

[Innisfree]

16 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

She says he doesn't throw fits. He doesn't get angry. DD's interpretation is that he wants peer acceptance, so he is acting out to get their attention. Obviously, the poor kid is hurting in some ways, but it's not like tantrums.

With this further information, I’d suggest finding out what his currency is, then rewarding him with it in some form as often as possible. Dinosaurs, football, superheroes, ponies, cats, whatever: you can find little stickers with almost any kid interest. Don’t wait for him to be good for half an hour. As soon as he’s been good for five minutes, smile at him sincerely and give him a sticker, or whatever he’d appreciate. Vary the intervals, but catch him being good and reward that behavior multiple times every day. Make behaving the way she wants more valuable than whatever reward his present behavior gives him. There are tons of places online showing charts she can use with him to track how he’s doing. Have a bigger reward when he earns five stickers, or whatever amount seems likely to reinforce his good behavior.

[Amethyst]

3 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

With this further information, I’d suggest finding out what his currency is, then rewarding him with it in some form as often as possible. Dinosaurs, football, superheroes, ponies, cats, whatever: you can find little stickers with almost any kid interest. Don’t wait for him to be good for half an hour. As soon as he’s been good for five minutes, smile at him sincerely and give him a sticker, or whatever he’d appreciate. Vary the intervals, but catch him being good and reward that behavior multiple times every day. Make behaving the way she wants more valuable than whatever reward his present behavior gives him. There are tons of places online showing charts she can use with him to track how he’s doing. Have a bigger reward when he earns five stickers, or whatever amount seems likely to reinforce his good behavior.

It’s Legos. Maybe a tiny piece each time he’s well-behaved? (But that seems a shame for the kids who are always well-behaved)

[Innisfree]

Just now, Amethyst said:

It’s Legos. Maybe a tiny piece each time he’s well-behaved? (But that seems a shame for the kids who are always well-behaved)

I’d keep it smaller than Lego pieces at school, but maybe arrange with his parents to have something small like a minifig ready for any day he earns X number of stickers.

[Tree Frog]

36 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

She says she has been carefully documenting everything. The school counselor is only at her school part-time. It doesn't seem like they are moving to have him evaluated for an IEP yet. She says he has no difficulty with learning so he wouldn't warrant and IEP. But what about ED? Based on what the parent has said, it seems like ED might be a thing here.

I'm a long term sub in a behavior classroom that falls under Spec Ed. (So I don't have a lot of experience with lots of kids, just my kiddos.) I have only 2 students, both are bright, but their behaviors get in their way of learning. We've had desks and chairs thrown, pinching, head butting, kicking, etc., but this year is significantly better than last year. Our goal is to de-escalate, notice the behavior before it gets bad, and respond. We use a calming space, like others mentioned, and other students who are struggling to maintain control in their gen ed classroom are allowed to come into our classroom. I wonder if there's a safe space away from the rest of the class the student could go. However, if the behavior has already escalated, the student will likely refuse to leave.

Is there a specific time of day the student struggles? What are his triggers? Neither of mine like to write and will trigger verbalizations in my older student and physical responses in my younger student.

When I started training for this job, I discovered my school district of over 100 schools is doubling the number of behavior classes like mine. Staff throughout the district is finding that kids are struggling.

33 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

Maybe. She says he doesn't throw fits. He doesn't get angry. DD's interpretation is that he wants peer acceptance, so he is acting out to get their attention. Obviously, the poor kid is hurting in some ways, but it's not like tantrums. Maybe she could explore these ideas with him. I'll suggest it to her. 

It sounds like some social skills training might work. Our district uses 3 different ones, 2 of which I have access to. One that I really like is SuperFlex. It teaches about how various "things" (rock brain, for example) try to get us to misbehave. It really focuses on the the student individually, teaching recognition of poor behaviors in a super hero comic book way. It would be good for the entire class to learn so they have the vocabulary to talk about what they're seeing. It also talks about hidden rules, those rules that aren't explicitly stated. For example, usually we don't teach students that we wear shoes at school. Everyone just knows. I am getting ready to implement it, but haven't yet. But my 2 boys like superheros and this seems like something they will listen to. My younger student picked up the book to peruse it and asked to read it.

Do the counselors do social skills training with the whole class? Does your dd have access to social stories that she could read or look at on her own? Maybe she would need to contact a spec ed teacher for those.

 

26 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

Yes. Apparently he loved his kindergarten teacher. She has over 30 year teaching experience. I don't think she has given any insight though. He was fine in kindergarten, dd says. But maybe she should talk to kindy teacher. Good idea. I'll suggest that.

If your dd can, she should try to build a relationship with this student and overlook minor behaviors. My relationship with my younger student is very strong and he knows what the rules are. He responds to me very differently than he does other staff.

It's a hard place to be! There are many teachers at my school who have students with behavior like your dd's. If your dd is on FB, there are several spec ed groups that discuss behavior issues. I wish your dd much luck!

Edited October 6, 2022 by Tree Frog

[Innisfree]

If he can defer gratification sufficiently, he could also collect stickers/points to earn something larger, with his parents’ support, financial and otherwise. But I’d start by making sure he succeeds as often as possible and is rewarded as soon as possible.

[BeachGal]

I am not a teacher but i wonder if your daughter could try to implement some of Marc Brackett’s methods to help her students develop emotional regulation. It’s been awhile since I read about this, but iirc, his ideas are partly based on the idea of emotional granularity. It’s been awhile since I’ve read about it but it’s easy enough to find online. 

https://www.marcbrackett.com/about/about-marc-brackett-ph-d/

https://medicine.yale.edu/childstudy/services/community-and-schools-programs/center-for-emotional-intelligence/

Another idea your daughter could try is to go to the Family Action Network website and look through the videos for something pertinent. Videos can be found in the upper right side of their website under the three horizontal lines. This video is of Marc Brackett in 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx2CLUQ4gKc

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Hilltopmom said:

It’s rough out there these days. I’m having my hardest year ever this year. 
But these instances of behaviors are becoming more and more common- kids without IEPs who we must evacuate the classroom for violent

eta- things have been getting bad for the last I dunno, 5 years but since covid it’s crazy what’s going on daily. Kids are out of control, none of my usual tool box of teacher tricks works, and parents are completely hands off- letting their 9 year olds stay up on electronics all night and do whatever they want. 

 

Yep.

Tracks with what I see and hear about in my classrooms/school/district.

~

OP, re violence - document, document, document. Every incident.

I agree that parent pressure re other students being hurt will speed up provision of another adult to work with student, which is what is required.

I still get my best results via relationship building with the student marked out as 'trouble'. I also do a lot of conscious self-regulation around these students - get myself softer, quieter, reduce demand, stay close. The more I find a student difficult, the more I know I need to stay curious and attached to them. What do they love? What worries them? What is their currency?

Using visuals for behaviour helps. Reduces the amount of verbal reminding/instructing needed. Reminders/instructions can be quite triggering for these students - the more unobtrusive the reminder the better.

Generally reducing verbal input to the necessary helps.

Paying attention to one's own speech - clear, direct, making use of eye contact, right level.

Noticing every single positive action and providing feedback. You have to be really quick to notice these things. because the 'good' action can be fleeting and overwhelmed by the disruptive actions. I try to find something immediately. 'Jason, I like the way you walked in the door and went straight to the bag area to hang up your bag.' First 10 seconds of the day.

Kid scribbles before he throws the pencil? You need to be in there at the scribble and be like 'Jason, I can see you are using the pencil on the paper, pencil to paper is the right way to use our pencils'.

It's EXHAUSTING.

(I am so ready to quit my job. The violence is why. Even though I am good at handling it, it takes a toll.)

~

Does your dd use visuals re emotional regulation with the class ?

She could build in emotion check-ins to her day. 

Student identifies dominant emotion from a chart (could be emoticons or other images). If positive, yay! Name it, move on.

If difficult emotion (on the worried/sad/frustrated/angry spectrum), use a thermometer image for student to ID how strong - mild to about to blow. Mild/moderate/strong should all have suggested classroom friendly emotional regulation strategies attached.

Student encouraged to choose and practice a strategy to help with regulation.

This could be targeted at poorly regulated student but available to all the students as way of checking in with themselves if needed.

Check-ins could be before the part of the day she IDs as most problematic re behaviour - arrival, after lunch, after the first session etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

14 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

It’s Legos. Maybe a tiny piece each time he’s well-behaved? (But that seems a shame for the kids who are always well-behaved)

I do a Lego tower with one kid.

I keep the Lego pieces, I add the pieces to the tower.

He can see me adding pieces to the tower, which is kept on the whiteboard ledge.

The 'reward' for him is seeing how high the tower can get each day.

I used to add a block along with a verbal explanation - you are keeping your hands to yourself, so I will add a block to our tower.

Then I faded it out to a thumbs up for positive behaviour and block added.

And then to just adding the block.

Eventually I will fade out the tower.

 

[Heartstrings]

Does the school not have a class for behavior kids?  It’s called an Alternative Learning Environment at the school my kids went to.   It’s a mixed grade class with 5-10 kids with behavior issues with a teacher and an aid.   When my kid threw a desk once that was discussed, it’s what spurred us into homeschooling.  I can’t imagine a kid being this bad day after day without them removing him.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Tree Frog]

22 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Does the school not have a class for behavior kids?  It’s called an Alternative Learning Environment at the school my kids went to.   It’s a mixed grade class with 5-10 kids with behavior issues with a teacher and an aid.   When my kid threw a desk once that was discussed, it’s what spurred us into homeschooling.  I can’t imagine a kid being this bad day after day without them removing him.  

ALE at my school (Texas) is only for ID students. If they don't have any significant learning deficits, students can't be placed there. BMC  (Behavior Mastery Center) is for students who only have behavior regulation problems. It's interesting learning what the different classes are called in different regions of the US. 

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I agree! But without an IEP, how can that happen?

Interventions and accommodations  can and do happen before the IEP is put in place (which can take literally weeks/month or more).  They can also happen before any testing or evaluations are initiated or completed.  Honestly, it's something the schools don't like to talk about - it's work and sometimes expense. The school or district should have an IEP coordinator - usually a counselor or a sp. ed. teacher. I recommend that your daughter talk to the principal about engaging this person in this case. Alternatively, your daughter could start treating this like a disciplinary issue, which is stinky, by the way, for first graders, their teachers, parents & schools. Kids throwing things in classrooms simply isn't safe for the student that's acting out, the other students or the teacher. Some things really do put eyes out, KWIM?

FWIW, about ten years ago I had a friend who taught middle school and nothing was happening w/regards to testing, IEP, etc. for a particular student that was acting out in class. No matter what my friend did or who she talked to, no one was prioritizing the need. Things changed was when she went to the principal and used the words "I do not feel safe in my classroom." Suddenly, wheels began turning and interventions & accommodations appeared out of the woodwork. Teacher safety was a hot button issue at that time. It wasn't my friend's intent to get the wheels to turn at that point - she was simply beginning to document a need for a transfer because she wasn't willing to continually risk personal injury.

[math teacher]

24 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Does the school not have a class for behavior kids?  It’s called an Alternative Learning Environment at the school my kids went to.   It’s a mixed grade class with 5-10 kids with behavior issues with a teacher and an aid.   When my kid threw a desk once that was discussed, it’s what spurred us into homeschooling.  I can’t imagine a kid being this bad day after day without them removing him.  

This is what I was coming on to say. Behavior must be sent in to the principal in our Discipline system. She handles it from there. In this instance, the student would be in an alternative classroom with a team to deal with students with behavior issues. 

I can't imagine why the other parents are not up in arms.

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, Hilltopmom said:

Yes they need to try everything to have data before requesting an eval for an iep. Child needs an FBA and then a BIP. Special Ed processes though. Not a fast solution.

No para until iep, at least not officially.

 

That isn't entirely accurate. Interventions must happen to keep kids & teachers safe. Like you said, an IEP isn't a fast process. It's a common misconception that tons of data has to be collected before interventions can take place. FWIW, every documentation of an issue, every observation of an incident, is a data point. Additionally, a parent can request an IEP and a school has 30 days to respond to the request - the clock is literally ticking at that point.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Apparently, there is a big process to get the therapist to release records to the school. But they have started the process..

No way in the world would I authorize release of a kids' therapy records to a school. Generally speaking, the school would have no idea what to do with the information if they had it. Way too general. The only thing I would agree to is a release of standardized testing results and recommended accommodations & interventions. That is it.  And only if they were released to a trained, qualified person in the school system, not just anyone who works there. The tendency to turn mental/behavioral health problems into disciplinary action or to outright criminalize mental/behavioral health problems is way too prevalent in our schools and in our culture at large.

 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Yes. Apparently he loved his kindergarten teacher. She has over 30 year teaching experience. I don't think she has given any insight though. He was fine in kindergarten, dd says. But maybe she should talk to kindy teacher. Good idea. I'll suggest that.

I know my son had exactly 2 good years in school, PreK and first and it’s because the teachers were STRICT. Their classes ran with military precision. Other parents complained about them being harsh, some kids cried occasionally but my kiddo THRIVED.  Now that he’s older I think it was for 2 reasons: he knew precisely what was expected of him, the other kids behaved.  There was no chaos, he couldn’t handle that.  
It’s possible the K teacher just had a classroom style that this kid meshed with.  I’m sure the sensitive kids didn’t do well with the super strict teachers that my kid needed. 
 

Or maybe K was before the child was traumatized by the divorce.  

[Melissa Louise]

21 minutes ago, math teacher said:

 

I can't imagine why the other parents are not up in arms.

This honestly boggles my mind, probably because I was 'that parent' during our short experiment of school.

Recently, I had to intervene in, and de-escalate a violent situation where a male student was kicking a female student in the stomach. Luckily, the female student was not seriously injured, but I cannot believe that her family has not picketed the school (which is doing an appalling job of duty of care for the male student, the female student and their staff member - me!) to get some action taken re this student and his in class/on playground violence.

Not that it should be necessary to rely on them to get the school to do the right thing.

 

[happi duck]

I would never expect therapy records to be released to the school! 

I am surprised that the therapist, while working with the family, hasn't suggested some sort of plan for school behavior that the parents could bring to the teacher.

[happi duck]

I like the ideas upthread to do a reset and having crystal clear expectations, rules, and routines.

If the whole class is throwing pencils they might need to have pencils unavailable most of the time.