Cats and rattlesnakes

[sangtarah]

Our pair of year old kitties tangled with a rattlesnake tonight. It’s the season in central Florida, I guess. They are both at the ER vet now being treated. 
If you wouldn’t mind, could you pray for them? 

[Innisfree]

Thinking of your poor kitties. I hope you get good news soon.

[Terabith]

Praying for your kitties.  They're beautiful.

[Annie G]

Sending positive thoughts your way. Hope your kitties are ok. 

[Tree Frog]

If you would like to ask questions of vets familiar with snake bites, the National Snakebite Support page on FB is very helpful. They also offer support from physicians for people.

I hope your kitties do well! 

[Vintage81]

That’s so scary! I hope they’re okay. 

[Katy]

I said a prayer.

[Harriet Vane]

I prayed for your kitties tonight.

[Pawz4me]

I sure hope they're okay!

[Indigo Blue]

I hope they are going to be okay. Please keep us updated. 

[MercyA]

I just saw this! Praying now. Any update?

[sangtarah]

They survived the night. Thor (gray one) still has a swollen leg. Loki (tuxedo) is back to normal. 

[Acorn]

I hope they heal fast.

[mommyoffive]

I am so glad to read your update.  Your tough little kitties.  I had no clue they had rattle snakes in FL.

[Dmmetler]

I'm glad they're doing well. 

 

Florida has several species of rattlesnakes (pkus a few more venomous species, including the only North American elapsid). The good news is that vet clinics (and hospitals) tend to keep Crofab on hand. Pygmy rattlesnakes are fairly common in urban Central Florida. The larger ones prefer more natural areas. You may want to see if there is a pit viper vaccine for cats-I know there is one for dogs. 

 

I would strongly suggest getting a professional (ideally someone who does snake relocation vs killing them-they're a very necessary part of the ecosystem, especially in Florida where small mammals reproduce all year round) out to check your yard. Rattlesnakes den communally, and it's the time of year when many dens will have pups as well (they're one of the only snake species that practice parental/communal care of young). It might be a good idea to make sure you don't have a den site before the cats, or anyome else likely to check out rock cracks and holes, goes outside again. 

[stephanier.1765]

I'm so relieved they did well overnight and I hope they both make a full and quick recovery. Were they trying to kill the snake or just stumble across it? They are very lucky that someone saw it happen so you could get them to the vet quickly. Those are two tough kitties!

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Tree Frog said:

If you would like to ask questions of vets familiar with snake bites, the National Snakebite Support page on FB is very helpful. They also offer support from physicians for people.

I hope your kitties do well! 

Was going to suggest the same! There is SO much misinformation about how to treat snakebites out there. For the record, steroids and antihistamines do NOTHING for snake bites, the swelling is from leaking cells damaged by venom so the only thing that helps is antivenom. NSAIDs should never be used in rattlesnake treatment - they can worsen the bleeding issues rattlesnake venom can cause. Opiods should be used for pain control. Antibiotics are not helpful unless/until there is actual open/necrotic tissue that shows high potential for infection. 

[ktgrok]

These are the veterinary guidelines for dogs and cats - cats can be given the same veterinary branded antivenom as dogs, and it does not have to be right away - if swelling is still increasing or damage getting worse it can still be given. 

 

[Dmmetler]

Can animals be allergic to the venom? One of the problems snakebites can cause in humans is that it's possible to be allergic to the venom, and for that reason it's recommended that you have an EpiPen handy if you're out in the field, because anaphylaxis kills faster than snakebite does. 

 

Another difficulty with humans is that Alpha-gal allergies are fairly common among people who spend a lot of time outdoors-people who fish, hunt, hike, field biologists, game wardens, etc. And Alpha-gal allergies also mean you're allergic to antivenin, so they have to treat the snakebite AND the allergic reaction. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

19 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Can animals be allergic to the venom? One of the problems snakebites can cause in humans is that it's possible to be allergic to the venom, and for that reason it's recommended that you have an EpiPen handy if you're out in the field, because anaphylaxis kills faster than snakebite does. 

 

Another difficulty with humans is that Alpha-gal allergies are fairly common among people who spend a lot of time outdoors-people who fish, hunt, hike, field biologists, game wardens, etc. And Alpha-gal allergies also mean you're allergic to antivenin, so they have to treat the snakebite AND the allergic reaction. 

 

 

Allergic reaction to venom is very rare, from what I read from the experts on the snakebite page. (toxicologists/etc who lecture on the topic). 

But yes, those with Alpha-gal allergies are treated for the allergic reaction at the same time as being given antivenom. 

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Allergic reaction to venom is very rare, from what I read from the experts on the snakebite page. (toxicologists/etc who lecture on the topic). 

But yes, those with Alpha-gal allergies are treated for the allergic reaction at the same time as being given antivenom. 

There have been a couple of folks hit by it in the herp community, but realistically, the venom researchers, extractors, and keepers are at lot higher risk of bites than the general public, and even if you don't work with venomous, if you're out, say, catching gopher tortoises or indigo snakes, you're going to be reaching into prime EDB rattlesnake habitat as well. 

 

And, well, dogs have this tendency to stick their noses in while exploring, so are at more risk as well. Some dogs really do well with snake detection training (to point or otherwise indicate the presence, but NOT go in and fetch!).

 

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

There have been a couple of folks hit by it in the herp community, but realistically, the venom researchers, extractors, and keepers are at lot higher risk of bites than the general public, and even if you don't work with venomous, if you're out, say, catching gopher tortoises or indigo snakes, you're going to be reaching into prime EDB rattlesnake habitat as well. 

 

And, well, dogs have this tendency to stick their noses in while exploring, so are at more risk as well. Some dogs really do well with snake detection training (to point or otherwise indicate the presence, but NOT go in and fetch!).

 

Right, but what I meant was even among those who are bitten by a venemous snake and seek treatment, allergic reaction to the venom is rare - although systemic reactions to the venom may mimic an allergic reaction in some ways. Also, treating with epinephrine in the absence of an allergic reaction is contraindicated as it can speed absorption of venom. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by ktgrok

[sangtarah]

Is gabapentin an NSAID? 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, sangtarah said:

Is gabapentin an NSAID? 

No. It is for nerve pain. 

[sangtarah]

Thank you all. They still seem to be doing okay. ER vet said the 48 hours is the critical time, so I guess we aren’t out of the woods, but they look good. The gray cat, Thor, seems more tired, but he is still playing and eating and such. 

[stephanier.1765]

15 hours ago, sangtarah said:

Thank you all. They still seem to be doing okay. ER vet said the 48 hours is the critical time, so I guess we aren’t out of the woods, but they look good. The gray cat, Thor, seems more tired, but he is still playing and eating and such. 

Are they at home? How are they this morning? I've been thinking about your kitties so much that I even dreamed about them. Hugs to your family. Sick pets, especially very sick pets, is a big stress for the entire family.

[sangtarah]

4 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Are they at home? How are they this morning? I've been thinking about your kitties so much that I even dreamed about them. Hugs to your family. Sick pets, especially very sick pets, is a big stress for the entire family.

They are doing well! I think we are past the concerning timeframe. They very much want to go outside, but I’m so afraid they will be bitten again! 
Here are their photos from today - they are in their favorite napping places. 

[Catwoman]

Somehow I missed this thread until right now. I’m so glad your cats are going to be ok! How terrifying!!!

[MercyA]

Oh my goodness, your cats are beautiful. So glad they are okay!

[Scarlett]

I am glad they are better…..one of yours looks just like my kitty.  
 

[Spryte]

What a relief that they are better!

[mommyoffive]

What cuties.  I am glad they are doing so well.  Tough kitties

[ktgrok]

so glad they are doing well! Yes, at this point the main issue would be bleeding issues (did they check labwork/clotting times? If those are fine, that's no longer a big worry) and local tissue necrosis. But they look really good, so I bet they are fine. 

A friend of mine is a biologist, as is her husband, and they work for the state and live IN a national forest. So lots of wildlife. Their dog has been bitten FIVE TIMES by rattlesnakes!!!! All but once were pygmy rattlers, which are less dangerous, but once was an eastern diamond back and he had a hard time with that one. But seriously, the dog does NOT learn! 

(they have caught and relocated many more rattlesnakes as well, before he found them. To the point that the other day she went to get a bucket to put a snake into and when she took it off the shelf found ANOTHER rattlesnake her husband had put in the bucket earlier, and was going to relocate after work, lol!)

[prairiewindmomma]

We lost a dog to a rattlesnake. So glad your kitties are well!!!