Help me navigate this...

[MercyA]

I am so very sorry. 

If there is anything we can do for you other than give advice, please ask. I know many would be willing to help in any way possible. 

[Alicia64]

1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

I've read so many of these situations here and I start to wonder if there's a online guidebook for scuzzy STBXs? 

I'm thinking that divorce-coaches must be busy.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Alicia64
spelling

[bodiesmom]

Question-

1. The lawyer I meet with on Monday is a phone consultation. I’ve been asked to send in any documents that I might want her to review beforehand and I did. Would it be appropriate to write up a brief synopsis of my background, such as my history including working, staying home, homeschooling, where the kids currently are, expressing my desire to stay as long as possible until youngest graduates, etc.  and send that in ahead of time as well?

I know all of this will be discussed during the consult but it might be helpful for her to have the background going into the consult because I honestly know my mind is going to freeze up and I’m going to become a blubbering idiot. I do so much better in person than on phone.

So- good idea, or no?

[Carol in Cal.]

Good idea.  Do it.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would like to add something.

I’ve watched a lot of these kinds of divorce situations go down on this board, and this one absolutely stinks to high heaven of

1). Him hiding assets

2). Him being involved with another woman

Even if you think one or both of these is unlikely, please take this seriously.  It’s more likely than not.  This is The Pattern.

[fraidycat]

Send anything in writing ahead of time you want the lawyer to know so that you don't have to rely on your memory to be working correctly at the time of the call. In high stress situations your "thinking brain" shuts down as "non-essential to survival". 

Include his current demands such as mediator, selling the home, using the savings and HELOC, etc. Write it all down and send to the lawyer.
 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by fraidycat

[Harriet Vane]

52 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

Question-

1. The lawyer I meet with on Monday is a phone consultation. I’ve been asked to send in any documents that I might want her to review beforehand and I did. Would it be appropriate to write up a brief synopsis of my background, such as my history including working, staying home, homeschooling, where the kids currently are, expressing my desire to stay as long as possible until youngest graduates, etc.  and send that in ahead of time as well?

I know all of this will be discussed during the consult but it might be helpful for her to have the background going into the consult because I honestly know my mind is going to freeze up and I’m going to become a blubbering idiot. I do so much better in person than on phone.

So- good idea, or no?

Yes, good idea.

Do it in a bullet point list rather than paragraphs. It's easier to pull out the relevant information that way.

[bodiesmom]

42 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I would like to add something.

I’ve watched a lot of these kinds of divorce situations go down on this board, and this one absolutely stinks to high heaven of

1). Him hiding assets

2). Him being involved with another woman

Even if you think one or both of these is unlikely, please take this seriously.  It’s more likely than not.  This is The Pattern.

CarolinCa-

Your 2nd point has crossed my mind just given how quickly and callously he is going about this, but it’s good to hear from others- I’ve been told I over exaggerate on everything so I do doubt myself. 

Your 1st point concerns me because it’s been mentioned before. This, to say the least, is not my area of knowledge whatsoever. Could you share with me why you suspect this and what possible scenarios you see happening? 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

1. You need to do more than one attorney consult. I recommend interviewing 3. You will find that they have different personalities, strategies, advice, etc. 

2. You need to get in with your gyn and do full STD testing just to be sure. I agree that the pattern makes it likely that he has already been hooking up with another/others.

3. Preserve some funds for yourself.  Ask your attorney how much is ok, but expect that he might try to do a funds sweep at some point and clear the accounts. Basically, just assume for the worse case, and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't work out that way.

4. You can have a lot of wishes and desires about preserving the marital home, getting alimony, etc. but hold these lightly.  Think bigger---you're looking at custody, healthcare, your own future retirement and other issues. Figure out what you're willing to negotiate on and what you're not....AND DO NOT TELL YOUR STBX what those are necessarily.  It's likely to be a give an inch/he'll try to take a mile type of situation.

5. There are a lot of books and websites on divorce + a narcissist. It's enough of a horror story that it makes it into print, iykwim. If you are a read and prepare person, know that those resources are out there. You need to find an attorney that can help you shut down any attempts to drag out the process to increase your attorney fees, that can be your shield during the process, and that doesn't put up with a lot of b-t, iykwim.

[Carol in Cal.]

39 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

CarolinCa-

Your 2nd point has crossed my mind just given how quickly and callously he is going about this, but it’s good to hear from others- I’ve been told I over exaggerate on everything so I do doubt myself. 

Your 1st point concerns me because it’s been mentioned before. This, to say the least, is not my area of knowledge whatsoever. Could you share with me why you suspect this and what possible scenarios you see happening? 

 

Because he is already (immediately!) laying the groundwork for a bunch of money to supposedly be spent, but very possibly just disappear into his possession.  And also, because he is hitting you with this so strongly that he must have been planning it for a while, and that often means that someone has been hiding money, hiding assets, and maybe postponing income in preparation for this attack. 

Please recognize—he is not your friend anymore.  His is your business adversary.  Stay nice but don’t give him any information, and lawyer as soon as possible. Be the duck, as someone upthread said.

[Lecka]

This is my impression from things my husband has said.

 

A man can start to be dissatisfied in the marriage.  Maybe their is cheating.  Maybe there has been serial cheating for a long time.  Maybe not.  Maybe they hide assets at first because they either gamble or want some spending money that doesn’t have accountability to their spouse, to go out.  
 

Then “it’s not fair” the wife “hasn’t been working” and if the husband leaves he will have to stay in some sad apartment.  That’s just “not fair.”  
 

And the wife wants to spend so much money on the kids, who — the husband blinked his eyes, and all of a sudden the wife has turned them into entitled spoiled brats who want to do things like continuing to play soccer, or continue to drive a car with insurance.  That has been going on and the husband never had a problem with it before.

 

And then there are people who have been divorced and tell the guy it’s not fair, and he has to take care of himself, no one else will, and women are favored by the courts.  Oh, and if there’s a new girlfriend, he needs to take her out and she won’t care for a sad apartment, either.

 

And at the same time there are sad object lessons of men who are just taken to the cleaners by their wives, because they were the ones trying to make their wife happy so she wouldn’t leave, and making verbal agreements that end up not happening because in the meantime they don’t think they really need to get a lawyer, that doesn’t apply to them, that won’t happen to them.

 

Plus they can think they want to stay on their wife’s good side so she won’t bad mouth them to the children.  
 

Anyway — I think there are just some characteristics of marriages and that is why there are so many patterns.

 

But yeah — the presentation of “I’m just done, totally and completely done,” in combination with disdain for the kids, does sound like someone who is likely cheating and either hiding assets to keep her happy, or just feels entitled for various reasons.

 

The people who say “my wife hasn’t worked in x many years” and either totally disregard what the wife has done at home, or acknowledge it but act like it is a hobby and doesn’t really matter.   

[Lecka]

My father and my husband’s father are both cheaters and they feel NO remorse.  None.  None whatsoever.  

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, bodiesmom said:

CarolinCa-

Your 2nd point has crossed my mind just given how quickly and callously he is going about this, but it’s good to hear from others- I’ve been told I over exaggerate on everything so I do doubt myself. 

Your 1st point concerns me because it’s been mentioned before. This, to say the least, is not my area of knowledge whatsoever. Could you share with me why you suspect this and what possible scenarios you see happening? 

 

If there is 2nd point, there will definitely be 1st point. The other party is in it for her own benefit. It could be as simple as drawing cash and paying things by cash instead of credit card so that it is not traceable. E.g draw $200, spend $40 on drinks and pocket the $160 with himself or the other party.

[Lecka]

I don’t think it matters to your preparations, because so much is due diligence.

 

I think it’s also appropriate to start emotionally distancing from someone who has chosen to be emotionally distant from you and (it comes across this way) your kids as well.  
 

There are still so many emotions from this happening, but I think he’s unlikely to bother to have any discussions or closure or anything like that.  He is somebody who delivered an ultimatum.  It’s not how someone would handle it who had a level of good intentions, or a level of emotional closeness.  

[Scarlett]

I am so sorry. You have already gotten all the advice I have to give. 
 

I would file immediately so you can stop him from draining savings and HELOC. He might think he is the boss but he will probably be shocked that a judge isn’t going to be bossed around.  And judges do not take kindly to men who cut their wives off financially so if he does that you can file for emergency hearing. 
 

[maize]

Do you have a credit card in your name only? If not I would get one now.

[Alicia64]

20 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've gathered this for "what to do to leave abuse" - but much of it works in divorce without abuse too.
first thing - get a lawyer and DO NOT leave the marital home.  That puts you into a very weak position where he can more easily screw you over.  It sounds like he has been planning this, and I would expect he's been hiding assets. 

 

This was shared to an abuse survivors page to which I belong.  Since the subject comes up, I thought I'd share this.  there are things I've never previously seen mentioned.  - I believe the poster is Canadian, and a few things will probably be Canada specific, but there might be something similar in other countries.
 

This is for anyone currently questioning if they should leave their abusive partner.

How to safely plan to leave an abusive relationship;

Banking;

 

What a gold mine!! Thank you for sharing this piece with @bodiesmom.

When you feel up to it, I hope you'll let us know how you are. I know what covert narcissists are like. Put on your armor. Get tough. And assume he's up to no good.

I'd jettison the idea that "he'll retaliate if you make an aggressive move."

He'll be a jerk no matter what you do.

Let's us know what state you're in. And remember: you're not alone. We're behind you.

[stephanier.1765]

I just want to say how sorry I am that you and your children are going through this. Your world must feel all upside and twisted. Hugs to you all!

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Alicia64 said:

What a gold mine!! Thank you for sharing this piece with @bodiesmom.

When you feel up to it, I hope you'll let us know how you are. I know what covert narcissists are like. Put on your armor. Get tough. And assume he's up to no good.

I'd jettison the idea that "he'll retaliate if you make an aggressive move."

He'll be a jerk no matter what you do.

Let's us know what state you're in. And remember: you're not alone. We're behind you.

This.  Bodiesmom - he's ****already**** being a jerk by demanding you leave your home.  He'll cut you off financially, he'll cut off your kids - or he'll cut you off FROM your kids.  the time for negotiation is past, he is NOT "negotiating".  Assume he has hidden assets to keep them from you.  He may or may not have a squeeze, but good chance he does.  Do not speak with him - make him email/text you so you have a paper trail.

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Regarding your question about mediation—a mediator often only gets paid if you come to a resolution.  So it’s not. In the mediator’s best interest to get a fair deal, but rather to get *A* deal.  That puts you in a bad position right off the bat.  Don’t do it.

[Scarlett]

33 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Regarding your question about mediation—a mediator often only gets paid if you come to a resolution.  So it’s not. In the mediator’s best interest to get a fair deal, but rather to get *A* deal.  That puts you in a bad position right off the bat.  Don’t do it.

Yep. I despise mediation. 

[Lecka]

I really agree with a pp — don’t prioritize the short-term over the long-term.

 

Personally, one of my sisters had major issues because my dad didn’t want to pay for her college, but had been supposed to, but he got out of it.  Why?  Just to mess with my mom.  He paid for college and housing for the sister 3 years older, and with an overlap of time where he refused to pay anything for this sister. 
 

As someone who has moved my kids many times, it’s not ideal, but it’s not something that is more traumatic than having someone withhold college money just to be a jerk.  
 

My mom hadn’t believed my dad was capable of acting this way.  Oh, but he was!  
 

I am saddened by how my parents’ divorce went for my mom.  I am someone where the family home was kept on my behalf, and I don’t think it was worth it or necessary.

 

My own kids have moved many times, and it’s not ideal, there are problems, but it’s not something that is going to ruin someone’s life, 99% of the time.  
 

Staying in the family home isn’t going to make everything better, either.  
 

If it works out and is the best decision, or a very close decision, I hope it does work out for you guys to stay.  I think if it’s your preference it’s a good first choice.
 

But I really don’t think it’s something to get hung up on.

 

Especially because to me — one, your youngest doesn’t have long left at home.  Even in the short-term, college is looming.  
 

Two, I had the experience of staying in the family home but with with extremely tight finances, and it is not what I personally would choose.  My mom is in the family home to this day and she is happy there, and her yard and flower beds are great, and they have redone their patio, and she is still friends with some of the same neighbors.  So it has worked out for my mom, and she really did always want to stay there.  For me, though, I would pick to move and have less financial stress, if that were the choice.  
 

My mom could have easily stayed in the same area, I know that’s not always the case.  
 

I am going to be honest too, my mom would have been embarrassed to move.  There was pride to it.  I don’t think it was a bad pride, because some of it was a “I’m not letting you win” kind of pride.  Or just like — “I’m not letting you beat me down.”  I think personal towards my father, because he didn’t think she could manage the house and keep it up (which — makes no sense to me — obviously she could do that).  But then also I think she would have been embarrassed to have her friends think “poor A, she had to move out of her nice house.”

 

Well — I don’t think her friends would have thought that.  She had friends who did move into a smaller house or an apartment, and I never saw her to be judgmental. 

 

She has never said to me that she kept the house for me, but if she did, I would say she didn’t need to, it wasn’t necessary.  
 

I feel like this about daycare.  My kids never went to daycare.  But I’m not expecting them to thank me later, and one of my kids has said he wants his wife to work.  I think that is fine.  It was my choice, and my husband’s choice.  If I did it against my own best interests, I don’t think it would be good, because it’s a lot to put on a child “I gave up x, y, z so you didn’t have to go to daycare.”  Well — that’s just not the case, but I wouldn’t want them to feel that way, and I don’t think it is something they care about.  
 

But honestly I think daycare or not is a lot more momentous than moving with a teenager.  I think the stakes are a lot lower. 
 

Still, I am sorry, and I hope it does make sense to stay.  It’s not fair to your child, but it’s the Dad’s actions that would cause it.  It’s too bad they are willful and voluntary actions on his side.  But I think it would be okay, and less bad than other ways the Dad could show a lack of care and concern.  

[Scarlett]

@Leckayou make a lot of good points.  I think when a divorce of a long term marriage happens ther is such shock that women can go into a defensive mode that is not always the most reasonable.  
 

@bodiesmom  I think the most important  thing is to get something filed to stop the bleeding financially if he is attempting to drain your savings and rack up debt. After you get that accomplished you can think about what you really need/want etc.  and I agree keeping kids in the same home is nice if possible but not the norm in divorces anymore. 

[Harriet Vane]

I think the thing about staying in the family home is at least for now, for this moment, stay put so you don't lose that asset among others. Do not decide if you want it long term right this minute. Your presence there in that space preserves your right to that asset (or to a share of it). Your priorities right now are to lawyer up and protect assets so that he doesn't sweep them all out from under you.

[Scarlett]

23 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I think the thing about staying in the family home is at least for now, for this moment, stay put so you don't lose that asset among others. Do not decide if you want it long term right this minute. Your presence there in that space preserves your right to that asset (or to a share of it). Your priorities right now are to lawyer up and protect assets so that he doesn't sweep them all out from under you.

Yes I wound not move out right now either. He can’t force her without going to court and that is a long process. 
I stayed in the house a full year after D day. Over 6 months after divorce was final. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Harriet Vane said:

I think the thing about staying in the family home is at least for now, for this moment, stay put so you don't lose that asset among others. Do not decide if you want it long term right this minute. Your presence there in that space preserves your right to that asset (or to a share of it). Your priorities right now are to lawyer up and protect assets so that he doesn't sweep them all out from under you.

This. At this point it’s really nothing to do with where she wants to live long-term, it’s that a house is a huge asset. If she moves out, he can sell it and potentially take the money. She needs to stay put so that cannot happen before a judge has determined how the finances need to work.

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

This. At this point it’s really nothing to do with where she wants to live long-term, it’s that a house is a huge asset. If she moves out, he can sell it and potentially take the money. She needs to stay put so that cannot happen before a judge has determined how the finances need to work.

Well he can’t sell it without her signature….so she would get her share of that… but still no need to move out at this point.  It would just ad unnecessary stress.

[KSera]

52 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well he can’t sell it without her signature….so she would get her share of that… but still no need to move out at this point.  It would just ad unnecessary stress.

That's probably true in most situations. I think it all depends on what state they live in, if they have community property laws and whose name is on the title. I have no experience with this though, only what I've read. I found an article that listed some of the the other important reasons to stay in the house, including some that affect custody:
Why You Should Not Move Out of Your House During A Divorce

 

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well he can’t sell it without her signature….so she would get her share of that… but still no need to move out at this point.  It would just ad unnecessary stress.

That is NOT always true.

[Murphy101]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

This. At this point it’s really nothing to do with where she wants to live long-term, it’s that a house is a huge asset. If she moves out, he can sell it and potentially take the money. She needs to stay put so that cannot happen before a judge has determined how the finances need to work.

This. The majority of decisions right now (and right now is basically the next 6-12 months) is all about protecting herself so that she is the best able to stand on her own without him and able to put her best foot forward in court *to a judge* - NOT about appeasing her stbx.

The majority of women who get the house end up not keeping it for lots of reasons - and that’s a GOOD thing! That means they were able to make the best decision for their future without the stress and pressure of their x who no longer has a say in that future. 

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

That is NOT always true.

I guess I was assuming her name was on the mortgage/deed. In some states even if she wasn’t, her signature is required to sell.

Am I missing something? 

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I guess I was assuming her name was on the mortgage/deed. In some states even if she wasn’t, her signature is required to sell.

Am I missing something? 

Why would you assume anything?

I am not on the mortgage but am on the deed. I had to ask to be on it when we closed. And the deed says his name AND my name whereas some have it his OR her name, allowing either to sell without the other.  If they have a house listed as a business asset - that’s a whole other thing.

I have seen lots of women our ages who have been surprised by this. It is NOT a given that they have a say in the house. They have to go to court to protect that. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

Why would you assume anything?

I am not on the mortgage but am on the deed. I had to ask to be on it when we closed. And the deed says his name AND my name whereas some have it his OR her name, allowing either to sell without the other.  If they have a house listed as a business asset - that’s a whole other thing.

I have seen lots of women our ages who have been surprised by this. It is NOT a given that they have a say in the house. They have to go to court to protect that. 

Obviously I am not an attorney. But my experience, in both OK and AR is that I was the only one on the deed and mortgage and my husband had to sign at closing. And  one of those was purchased before I married him. 
 

 

[Scarlett]

https://www.worldwidelandtransfer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MARITAL_SIGNATURE_REQUIREMENTS.pdf
 

This  chart provides some details for various states. 

I think we all agree she needs an attorney immediately. I think we all agree she should not move out. But I do not think he can sell the house without her consent whether she is on the deed or not.  I was only trying to reassure her not to panic over that for now. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

Why would you assume anything?

I am not on the mortgage but am on the deed. I had to ask to be on it when we closed. And the deed says his name AND my name whereas some have it his OR her name, allowing either to sell without the other.  If they have a house listed as a business asset - that’s a whole other thing.

I have seen lots of women our ages who have been surprised by this. It is NOT a given that they have a say in the house. They have to go to court to protect that. 

Perhaps it depends on whether you are in a "community property" state or not.  In my state, any assets acquired during a marriage is community property and has to be equally divided.  Neither can sell or dispose of the property without the permission of the other.  (I doublechecked the laws in my state.  The OP needs to look at the laws in her state.) 

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Obviously I am not an attorney. But my experience, in both OK and AR is that I was the only one on the deed and mortgage and my husband had to sign at closing. And  one of those was purchased before I married him. 
 

 

My husband has to sign for us to sell the house that was only in my name in AR, but the house we owned in VA was only in his name and I didn’t have to sign a single thing for him to buy or sell that house.  So different states do things differently.  

[Scarlett]

Here is the article that goes along with that chart. 
https://www.worldwidelandtransfer.com/marital-signature-requirements-updated/

Edited August 29, 2022 by Scarlett

[elegantlion]

Hi, I just wanted to post again to the OP. I do hope you are doing all right. Things might feel overwhelming right now but you will get through all of this. My ex did something really stupid which led to the divorce. I was not prepared. Because of the stress, I literally physically shook for like 2 months. Some days the only reason I got out of bed was because I knew my son needed me. 

The darkness may feel like a tunnel but just keep moving forward inch and inch and there will be light. So many of us on this board have been through challenging separations &/or divorces. 

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, elegantlion said:

Hi, I just wanted to post again to the OP. I do hope you are doing all right. Things might feel overwhelming right now but you will get through all of this. My ex did something really stupid which led to the divorce. I was not prepared. Because of the stress, I literally physically shook for like 2 months. Some days the only reason I got out of bed was because I knew my son needed me. 

The darkness may feel like a tunnel but just keep moving forward inch and inch and there will be light. So many of us on this board have been through challenging separations &/or divorces. 

Well said.  @bodiesmom it will get better. You must trust us on this.  Pm me if you need a place to vent.  

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

My husband has to sign for us to sell the house that was only in my name in AR, but the house we owned in VA was only in his name and I didn’t have to sign a single thing for him to buy or sell that house.  So different states do things differently.  

Out of curiosity was the VA home a primary residence/homestead home?

[Heartstrings]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Out of curiosity was the VA home a primary residence/homestead home?

Yes.  

[bodiesmom]

I just wanted to update a little...I got some answers to my questions regarding finances and have the appropriate steps to take. 

I was completely numb last week and then the weekend hit and it was bruuuuutal. I feel like I'm going to be permanently traumatized from this and it's just the beginning. 

I am so sorry for all who have gone through this. 😥

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, bodiesmom said:

I just wanted to update a little...I got some answers to my questions regarding finances and have the appropriate steps to take. 

I was completely numb last week and then the weekend hit and it was bruuuuutal. I feel like I'm going to be permanently traumatized from this and it's just the beginning. 

I am so sorry for all who have gone through this. 😥

I can’t imagine any divorce is easy, but yes what you are going through and what many of us have gone through is traumatizing. I would not say permanently though. At all. You will get through this and you will have happy days ahead.  And they will be happier than when you were married to a man who could do such a thing to you.  
 

You have one thing going for you that will make your life easier.  No little children for whom you will have to navigate visitation.  That was the most difficult for me. Having to hand over my son to him every other weekend when my son and I had never been apart. And then when the divorce was over taking my son around the other woman.  
 

So I am happy you won’t have to endure that.  Just one step at a time.  Listen to your attorney.  And if you need some private support there are several here including myself who have been through this.  Do you have some IRL support?
 

((((hugs))))

[bodiesmom]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I can’t imagine any divorce is easy, but yes what you are going through and what many of us have gone through is traumatizing. I would not say permanently though. At all. You will get through this and you will have happy days ahead.  And they will be happier than when you were married to a man who could do such a thing to you.  
 

You have one thing going for you that will make your life easier.  No little children for whom you will have to navigate visitation.  That was the most difficult for me. Having to hand over my son to him every other weekend when my son and I had never been apart. And then when the divorce was over taking my son around the other woman.  
 

So I am happy you won’t have to endure that.  Just one step at a time.  Listen to your attorney.  And if you need some private support there are several here including myself who have been through this.  Do you have some IRL support?
 

((((hugs))))

Thank you for this- I am so thankful my kids aren’t little.

I do have a little irl support but not much. I’ll take what I can get though. 

[Home'scool]

It IS brutal at first. Plus you have to do all these things .... find financial paperwork, get an attorney etc. when all you want to do is hide under the covers.

It DOES get better. Once you get some distance and some time you will start to view things from your perspective, just you, and not an "us" perspective.

I was with my ex since I was 18. I spent months thinking "how will I go on without him" and "I miss the sound of his voice" -- omg when I think of that now I realize how much I had been manipulated. After a while, I started thinking about how the marriage was bad from my perspective. That, along with getting used to taking care of yourself, doing what you want, spending your time the way you want, you start to realize that freedom aint so bad!

I feel you when you say it is brutal. It is. But it won't always be. Give it time and be kind to yourself.