Food security

[Spy Car]

17 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

LOL, I don't have her list in front of me (there are several that she uses), but I think GF  buckwheat was one. There are several brands, but many still come with a wheat allergy warning due to being processed not only in the same facility as wheat but also on the same machinery. She makes a buckewheat crepe (Gallette) that is really yummy, and fills it with diced chicken and stiry fry veggies for him. She did find a place to order it from, and they have it in stock, and are shipping it to her. So phew! His diet is so limited. My poor son in law can't have mammal meat, seafood, night shades, dairy, or wheat. There hasn't been a lot of variety in his diet, but he likes Mediterranean and Middle Eastern spices and thankfully, garlic, gumeric, curcumin, and ginger are fine.

If we can't get his flours, I will absolutely make a list and ask you if they are available near you! I am not above begging, and will pay handsomely for the assistance.

What I was thinking, is that I got an excellent grain mill just as the world went into so-called Covid "lockdown" and I was uncertain what food supplies were going to look like. That turned out to be not be "necessary," but I still love the mill.

We have friends whose child is multi-allergic and GF who purchased one of these on my recommendation and they love it. They only use it for non-gluten milling. My wife's bread baking friend did the same (for wheat flours).

Not sure how the costs all work out vs just buying GF flours, but if supply is an issue I thought I'd mention it.

The mill I got (and is really is nice) is a Mockmill 100. The price has gone up a bit (from $275 to $310), but easy to use and does a great job with alternative flours. It is a superb mill if that's something that could be useful to you.

Bill

 

 

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

What I was thinking, is that I got an excellent grain mill just as the world went into so-called Covid "lockdown" and I was uncertain what food supplies were going to look like. That turned out to be not be "necessary," but I still love the mill.

We have friends whose child is multi-allergic and GF who purchased one of these on my recommendation and they love it. They only use it for non-gluten milling. My wife's bread baking friend did the same (for wheat flours).

Not sure how the costs all work out vs just buying GF flours, but if supply is an issue I thought I'd mention it.

The mill I got (and is really is nice) is a Mockmill 100. The price has gone up a bit (from $275 to $310), but easy to use and does a great job with alternative flours. It is a superb mill if that's something that could be useful to you.

Bill

 

 

Thanks! Great tip. This could be the way to go. Dd and so will do some research and discuss it. She is such a crunchy mom, foodie, and excellent cook that if she thinks this a solution, we will get it! She will use it. I am a terrible kitchen elf, and there is just no way I would grind my own and make bread. I told Mark that if I had to do that, I would never eat bread, pasta, etc. again in this life! I am just not a kitchen person. BUT, I love the father of my grandsons like my own, and I would do it for him!

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Drop some dry ice into the buckets before you fill them and add the gamma seal lids. Let them stay closed for several days. The oxygen deprived environment will kill insect eggs, etc. Mylar pouches + oxygen absorber packets do much the same thing, but the Mylar pouches are more prone to mice. Keep an eye on what you store.

We have a grain mill (have had since 2006–fingers crossed it keeps going)—chickpeas also make a lovely flour, fwiw, and can even be used to make a sort of soy free tofu that seasons nicely for cooking as a meat alternative.

[kbutton]

On 5/14/2022 at 8:04 AM, KungFuPanda said:

I work for a landscaper and he orders plants/trees from the Carolinas and has them shipped to our landscape nursery every year. This year, the (normally conservative)shipping time proved too early and cold. There were shortages on many species of plants, and there’s some sort of wilt taking out eastern redbuds so landscapers are scrambling for an alternative. I know these are ‘just’ ornamentals, but there are still livelihoods at stake along that line. 

Redbuds are natives that support biodiversity and native insects. There may be other natives in those orders that are going to be missed as well. And yes, it does effect jobs. 

[bluemongoose]

I also have a Mockmill, but I have the 200. I highly recommend Mockmills. The 100 is great if you have a smaller family and don't need to grind as much at one time. For a family that does large batches at a time, I would get the 200. 

[Spy Car]

45 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Thanks! Great tip. This could be the way to go. Dd and so will do some research and discuss it. She is such a crunchy mom, foodie, and excellent cook that if she thinks this a solution, we will get it! She will use it. I am a terrible kitchen elf, and there is just no way I would grind my own and make bread. I told Mark that if I had to do that, I would never eat bread, pasta, etc. again in this life! I am just not a kitchen person. BUT, I love the father of my grandsons like my own, and I would do it for him!

 

I am assuming that you would need to keep a mill free of gluten containing grains.

I have ground a number of alternative flours in mine (as I do not have gluten cross contamination issues in my family). The Mock Mill 100 does a superb job on both wheat and alternative flours. Was into a garbanzo bean flour phase for a while.

I can recommend these with highest confidence. $310 isn't nothing, but if it helps with a sense of food security, might be something to consider.

Here is a link:

https://breadtopia.com/store/mockmill-100-grain-mill/

While there may be fancier looking mills with expensive woodwork, I think the internals on are as good or better than anything else on the market. They do have a 200 model with a more powerful motor that grins faster for 50 or 60 dollars more. I see no cause to "upgrade" personally. Perhaps if I ran a small cafe with a bakery?

The Mockmill 100 does an excellent job milling and doesn't make a mess. 

My wife's friend--who is an everyday artisanal bread baker--was quite frustrated with her old mill (from the former leading brand) and I get thanked profusely for the recommendation for this one. Check them out. Universal praise. 

Bill

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I am assuming that you would need to keep a mill free of gluten containing grains.

I have ground a number of alternative flours in mine (as I do not have gluten cross contamination issues in my family). The Mock Mill 100 does a superb job on both wheat and alternative flours. Was into a garbanzo bean flour phase for a while.

I can recommend these with highest confidence. $310 isn't nothing, but if it helps with a sense of food security, might be something to consider.

Here is a link:

https://breadtopia.com/store/mockmill-100-grain-mill/

While there may be fancier looking mills with expensive woodwork, I think the internals on are as good or better than anything else on the market. They do have a 200 model with a more powerful motor that grins faster for 50 or 60 dollars more. I see no cause to "upgrade" personally. Perhaps if I ran a small cafe with a bakery?

The Mockmill 100 does an excellent job milling and doesn't make a mess. 

My wife's friend--who is an everyday artisanal bread baker--was quite frustrated with her old mill (from the former leading brand) and I get thanked profusely for the recommendation for this one. Check them out. Universal praise. 

Bill

Run a cafe with a bakery, Bill, run a cafe with a bakery.....just do it! 😁

[Spy Car]

22 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

I also have a Mockmill, but I have the 200. I highly recommend Mockmills. The 100 is great if you have a smaller family and don't need to grind as much at one time. For a family that does large batches at a time, I would get the 200. 

We cross posted. I do have a small family and the 100 is more than sufficient for us. But...

Bill

[Spy Car]

Here is a link to the Mockmill 200.

I was wrong. It is $85 more.

https://mockmill.us/product/mockmill-200-stone-grain-mill/

Bill

[Corraleno]

Another vote for the Mockmill, I absolutely LOVE mine. I used to have a Nutrimill Classic, which is only a little less expensive than the Mockmill, and there is no comparison. With the Nutrimill it was hard to get a good seal on the drawer where it dumps the flour, so it would blow flour dust everywhere (lots of complaints about this in reviews), and then it was a PITA to clean. The Mockmill is a really simple but super robust piece of German engineering, with nearly infinite adjustments to the degree of coarseness/fineness, and the flour is stone ground vs chopped up with blades. I'd put the Mockmill in the same category as a Vitamix — a bit expensive up front, but a really solidly-engineered workhorse that you can probably hand down to your kids.

 

[ddcrook]

@Spy CarWhat did you do with the garbanzo bean flour? I'm intrigued!

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, ddcrook said:

@Spy CarWhat did you do with the garbanzo bean flour? I'm intrigued!

I'm going to give this a try some time this week.
https://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/punjabi-kadhi-recipe-punjabi-kadhi-pakora/

[Spy Car]

53 minutes ago, ddcrook said:

@Spy CarWhat did you do with the garbanzo bean flour? I'm intrigued!

One thing I tried (which I don't rate as a big success) was seeing if I could come up with a quick DIY "instant" falafel mix. After a few trials I came up with something that was okay, but not really good enough to replace real falafel.

I then had much better success making what the French call "socca" and the Italians call "farinata." Somewhere between a flatbread and a savory pancake. Made quite a few variations on the theme, from ones that were pretty plain to an array of ones that were topped with all sorts of herbs, onions,grilled veggies, and cheeses that were somewhat reminiscent of pizzas. Really good. If I had a GF person in my life, I'd be making these regularly.

I also baked essentially the same batter for socca/farinata in a thin layer (about an inch thick) and I liked that as well.

Then I got distracted   

Bill

Edited May 16, 2022 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

d/p

Edited May 16, 2022 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, ddcrook said:

@Spy CarWhat did you do with the garbanzo bean flour? I'm intrigued!

One more thing, some Indian dumplings. I'm going to paste a post I made at the time I was playing around with garbanzo bean/chickpea flour. It was pretty good:

I'm just starting my experimentation with garbanzo bean/chickpea flour. Last night I made nuggets/dumplings in a savory spicy gravy Rajasthani (Indian) style, but I think the basic idea could be easily swung in different directions/styles depending on the flavorings and sauce that one uses. Quite good. Gluten-free. High protein. Healthful.

I'm going to continue experimenting and alternating the flavors and perhaps even varying the cooking methods.

The basics are easy. Use 100g of garbanzo bean bean flour per person. Season the flour. Add 1 Tb of olive oil per 100g. Mix well. Then slowly add water, mixing, until one has a firm kneadable dough. Knead well (10 min?) Roll pieces into long rolls (1/2 diameter).

Cut tubes into sections (4-5 inches). Boil in batches until tubes float to the top (4 min). Drain and let rest.

That is the pre-cook. Then you can cut the pieces into smaller nuggets and pan-fry or otherwise brown up (going to try air-frying). And then top with a sauce/gravy or cook in a sauce. 

As I say, brand new to me. But it was a hit with my family last night.

Here is a link to a recipe for a Rajasthani version of this idea:

https://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/gatte-ki-sabji-recipe/

Bill

 

[Faith-manor]

8 hours ago, Spy Car said:

One more thing, some Indian dumplings. I'm going to paste a post I made at the time I was playing around with garbanzo bean/chickpea flour. It was pretty good:

I'm just starting my experimentation with garbanzo bean/chickpea flour. Last night I made nuggets/dumplings in a savory spicy gravy Rajasthani (Indian) style, but I think the basic idea could be easily swung in different directions/styles depending on the flavorings and sauce that one uses. Quite good. Gluten-free. High protein. Healthful.

I'm going to continue experimenting and alternating the flavors and perhaps even varying the cooking methods.

The basics are easy. Use 100g of garbanzo bean bean flour per person. Season the flour. Add 1 Tb of olive oil per 100g. Mix well. Then slowly add water, mixing, until one has a firm kneadable dough. Knead well (10 min?) Roll pieces into long rolls (1/2 diameter).

Cut tubes into sections (4-5 inches). Boil in batches until tubes float to the top (4 min). Drain and let rest.

That is the pre-cook. Then you can cut the pieces into smaller nuggets and pan-fry or otherwise brown up (going to try air-frying). And then top with a sauce/gravy or cook in a sauce. 

As I say, brand new to me. But it was a hit with my family last night.

Here is a link to a recipe for a Rajasthani version of this idea:

https://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/gatte-ki-sabji-recipe/

Bill

 

Hey Bill, thanks for posting this. I am going to try it as soon as I come up with some garbanzo bean flower. 

[Lecka]

Is that pakori?

We have been eating some amazing potato pakori lately, it is so good.  Someone we know makes it during Ramadan (or maybe they make it any time, I’m not sure).  
 

Edit:  I know they use chickpea flour.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by Lecka

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Hey Bill, thanks for posting this. I am going to try it as soon as I come up with some garbanzo bean flower. 

By altering the seasonings and the sauce, you could spin these garbanzo bean flour dumplings in many directions.

The recipe above is "Indian," but I made some in Italian and Mediterranean styles as well. 

 

You may not purchase a mill, but if you do the trick with things like garbanzo beans is to grind them in two passes. The first being very coarse and then a second pass to make flour.

Bill

[KungFuPanda]

20 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Run a cafe with a bakery, Bill, run a cafe with a bakery.....just do it! 😁

Yeah, @Bill, or at the very least start a YouTube channel. I feel like you kinda owe us. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I  just cannot believe how fast it is going form bad to worse to unbelievably bad in Sir Lanka now the farmers can  not even farm.  This is on top of the mega inflation, absolutely no fuel, nobody able to work, government can no longer pay civil workers, now the farmers can no longer grow food. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/18/a-food-crisis-looms-in-sri-lanka-as-farmers-give-up-on-planting 

 

Many countries in the world are really facing great hardship at the moment. the whole world food security is at risk

Edited May 18, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I  just cannot believe how fast it is going form bad to worse to unbelievably bad in Sir Lanka now the farmers can  not even farm.  This is on top of the mega inflation, absolutely no fuel, nobody able to work, government can no longer pay civil workers, now the farmers can no longer grow food. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/18/a-food-crisis-looms-in-sri-lanka-as-farmers-give-up-on-planting 

 

Many countries in the world are really facing great hardship at the moment. the whole world food security is at risk

Yes. The Sri Lanka situation is quite particular, as it was initiated by the government's attempt to take the whole country organic overnight.

[Melissa in Australia]

14 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Yes. The Sri Lanka situation is quite particular, as it was initiated by the government's attempt to take the whole country organic overnight.

that was one of the factors. there are multiple factors to their current crisis and it is snowballing very quickly

[Ausmumof3]

30 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

that was one of the factors. there are multiple factors to their current crisis and it is snowballing very quickly

I read yesterday they had less than 24 hours duel? Are any governments/allies likely to help them out?

[Melissa in Australia]

21 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I read yesterday they had less than 24 hours duel? Are any governments/allies likely to help them out?

Maybe China and India?? the problems seem so huge, complex and intermingled that  I don't know how they can be helped

[shawthorne44]

4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Yes. The Sri Lanka situation is quite particular, as it was initiated by the government's attempt to take the whole country organic overnight.

I am starting to wonder if the result wasn't what was intended.  My heart rejects that as evil, but my head says only someone dumber than a rock wouldn't have seen that leading to food shortages.  

If farmers could grow as much food organically as non, then they would.  It would be cheaper if they didn't have to buy the chemicals.  The problem with organic is that the yield drops dramatically.   
 

[Murphy101]

3 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

I am starting to wonder if the result wasn't what was intended.  My heart rejects that as evil, but my head says only someone dumber than a rock wouldn't have seen that leading to food shortages.  

If farmers could grow as much food organically as non, then they would.  It would be cheaper if they didn't have to buy the chemicals.  The problem with organic is that the yield drops dramatically.   
 

This. I have never purchased organic anything on purpose. I don’t want to encourage it. There’s a happy middle ground between chemical everything without restraint or safeguards or “organic” that ignores that human cultivation has advanced yields and that middle ground feeds the world and to ignore it starves us all eventually. 

[Laura Corin]

22 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

I am starting to wonder if the result wasn't what was intended.  My heart rejects that as evil, but my head says only someone dumber than a rock wouldn't have seen that leading to food shortages.  

If farmers could grow as much food organically as non, then they would.  It would be cheaper if they didn't have to buy the chemicals.  The problem with organic is that the yield drops dramatically.   
 

This is an interesting programme that goes into the background: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct39st

[prairiewindmomma]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/05/sri-lanka-organic-farming-crisis/
 

The ban on imported fertilizer happened after COVID dropped tourist income revenues to the island and it became difficult to pay for imported fertilizer. But, a lack of high yield fertilizer = a drop in production so then they couldn’t produce as much tea and those revenues fell. If you live on an island where you have to import so many things but you can’t pay for it….you end up in an economic death spiral, which then leads to a political death spiral.

[Ausmumof3]

11 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

This. I have never purchased organic anything on purpose. I don’t want to encourage it. There’s a happy middle ground between chemical everything without restraint or safeguards or “organic” that ignores that human cultivation has advanced yields and that middle ground feeds the world and to ignore it starves us all eventually. 

I think though, there’s going to be supply issues with fertiliser long term. Not due to short term manufacturing stuff but due to the fact that we currently scrape the phosphorous rock off a handful of migratory bird islands and that resource doesn’t renew as fast as we use it. It’s going to eventually run out.

So some kind of different approach is going to become a necessity anyway. Some organic approaches are very “back in the dark ages” but a lot of organic farmers will experiment with different ways or maximising yield and do it in a scientific way that long term can yield productivity benefits etc. 

CSIRO down here are working on apps etc to help farmers design and run their own on farm experiments to gather and analyse data about what they’re doing and how it’s working. They’re also working on satellite imaging tech to assess the variety of crops being grown and the rate of growth based on carbon absorption or something similar so they can predict shortfalls on a National scale.

Farmers have to be super innovative just to survive financially now, and agritech is pretty exciting!

I just remembered one other thing they do is use sensors around the Great Barrier Reef. A lot of farmers need to fertilise somewhat but don’t want to contribute to the coral bleaching issues from run off, so they use sensor data to monitor levels and fertilise at times least likely to impact the reef.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Melissa in Australia]

Ausmum have you seen the research they are doing in NSW. I think it is the Goulburn area using  treated human waste. The farmers are very excited about it and say that it lasts so long in the soil that they are only needing to fertilise every 3 years and are getting better results than artificial fertiliser. 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think though, there’s going to be supply issues with fertiliser long term. Not due to short term manufacturing stuff but due to the fact that we currently scrape the phosphorous rock off a handful of migratory bird islands and that resource doesn’t renew as fast as we use it. It’s going to eventually run out.

So some kind of different approach is going to become a necessity anyway. Some organic approaches are very “back in the dark ages” but a lot of organic farmers will experiment with different ways or maximising yield and do it in a scientific way that long term can yield productivity benefits etc. 

 

Actually this was the case back at the start of the 1900s when chemical fertilizers were invented. This guano scraped off of rocks would be considered organic fertilizer, I suspect.

the book _The Alchemy of Air_ goes into great detail about the development of this fertilizer in Germany and how it came into the possession of the rest of the world in the aftermath of World War II

 

[fairfarmhand]

12 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Ausmum have you seen the research they are doing in NSW. I think it is the Goulburn area using  treated human waste. The farmers are very excited about it and say that it lasts so long in the soil that they are only needing to fertilise every 3 years and are getting better results than artificial fertiliser. 

This is happening in my neck of the woods. The city of Nashville is using human waste in their sewage plant to feed to bacteria. The bacteria consume the waste and multiply. The excess bacteria are removed from the digesters and run through a dryer which kills them and any pathogens that might be lurking and pelletizes the fertilizer.  (they use the methane that comes off of the digestors to run other parts of the plant, like the dryers) Then you can scatter it on fields.  We use it on our farms. This stuff grows grass. (We raise cattle, so that's what I know) We have strangers drive by our fields and ask what we've been doing because our fields are so lush. My dh has never grow hay like he has since we started using the pellets on our farm. 

It is 100% safe and requires no special handling. I handle it with my bare hands. It really is a miracle. 

Added bonus is that the city was having to PAY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LANDFILL FEES to dispose of their waste before they built the biosolids plant. So we're taking something that was costing the city money, dirtying up the planet, and now using it to generate funds and improve the soil. What's not to like about that?

[kbutton]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/19/banks-collapsed-in-2008-food-system-same-producers-regulators?fbclid=IwAR3VWRcEclp7OwOupAe-KhSY0fsxA7mtoXPSIgvhd5Dca0ZED0mFOrHF8eg

[She Travels]

JP Morgan is predicting gas to go to 6.20/gal by August which will cause food prices to rise as much as another 30%+.  One hurricane this summer could quickly cause a massive crisis. Most people are completely unaware that we have had several refineries close since the beginning on the pandemic. 

[Melissa in Australia]

49 minutes ago, kbutton said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/19/banks-collapsed-in-2008-food-system-same-producers-regulators?fbclid=IwAR3VWRcEclp7OwOupAe-KhSY0fsxA7mtoXPSIgvhd5Dca0ZED0mFOrHF8eg

Thank you 

I found that very interesting

but is isn’t helping me with the near panic I am feeling about food. I have already extended my veggie garden and just have this strong urge to plant more and more. Every time I read another thing about food crisis  I get all jittery and panicky and I rush out and plant more veggie seeds.

took 2 boxes of surplus  veggies to the food bank yesterday because I am growing way way more than we can possibly eat.

all I can think about and dream about at night is planning and growing more food.

 

[kbutton]

37 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

all I can think about and dream about at night is planning and growing more food.

I hope you are able to have more restful sleep. I keep thinking about how we're not going to have as big of a garden this year (surgery for a kiddo). I feel like the best we can do is keep the pantry full and diversified.

[Melissa in Australia]

Hope your child’s surgery goes well and has a swift recovery

[kbutton]

13 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Hope your child’s surgery goes well and has a swift recovery

Thank you! It's a long recovery, but it will be worth it (scoliosis fusion/rods). 

[Carrie12345]

15 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Thank you 

I found that very interesting

but is isn’t helping me with the near panic I am feeling about food. I have already extended my veggie garden and just have this strong urge to plant more and more. Every time I read another thing about food crisis  I get all jittery and panicky and I rush out and plant more veggie seeds.

took 2 boxes of surplus  veggies to the food bank yesterday because I am growing way way more than we can possibly eat.

all I can think about and dream about at night is planning and growing more food.

 

 

14 hours ago, kbutton said:

I hope you are able to have more restful sleep. I keep thinking about how we're not going to have as big of a garden this year (surgery for a kiddo). I feel like the best we can do is keep the pantry full and diversified.

For some reason, both WM and Shoprite have had a TON of individual packets of Dunkaroos lining end caps for the past month or two. A few nights ago, I had a dream that my family needed to depend on Dunkaroos for a large portion of our diet. This craziness is definitely messing with my head!!!

And the vast garden plans I tried to work through over the winter are useless. Our earliest move in date is now 7/8. I have a few grow bags of random plants to attempt to move, but very low hopes for anything more than a few snacks.  Sigh.

[prairiewindmomma]

7/8 is just right for fall garden here….I need to have stuff in by 7/25-8/1 to harvest for fall.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/20/world-has-just-ten-weeks-worth-wheat-left-ukraine-war/
 

I know it’s the telegraph but world really needs to figure out how to get wheat stocks out of Ukraine soon. I’m questioning whether or not we will hatch chickens next year - I suspect the feed bill will be unaffordable if something doesn’t change. And I feel selfish that that’s what I’m worried about!

Edited May 21, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Carrie12345]

18 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

7/8 is just right for fall garden here….I need to have stuff in by 7/25-8/1 to harvest for fall.

Now if I could just spend my time building a garden instead of unpacking. 😉 
I’ve never actually planted for fall before, mostly because our first freeze can be so unpredictable, but maybe I can attempt some sort of easy, makeshift arrangement this year.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

Now if I could just spend my time building a garden instead of unpacking. 😉 
I’ve never actually planted for fall before, mostly because our first freeze can be so unpredictable, but maybe I can attempt some sort of easy, makeshift arrangement this year.

I have never done a fall garden either, but I do know that it is possible to replant for broccoli and get a second crop. I am not sure what else works like that in Michigan since after Labor Day, temps really begin dropping at night. Maybe other plants would work so long as I cover them at night.

I need to look into this.

[Melissa in Australia]

Asian greens only talk a few weeks till harvest. Would they work? Kale? I have heard that kale grows all winter In Scotland and it is pretty cold  there I believe.

here the late garden grows better than the summer garden , less water needed,, just need to grow different things, but I think I am something like a zone 9 b or 10 a in your zone language. We don’t do zones like that here the zoning like that is a USA  thing
 

Here we go by names like tropical, dry, temperate and cold. I fall into the temperate zone - about 10 frosts a year and minimum daytime temp of just below 10 oC for a week or so in mid winter.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Rosie_0801]

I harvested some wild lettuce, sow thistle and mallow to supplement dinner yesterday. I love weeds. They grow no matter what I do.

[prairiewindmomma]

19 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 I’m questioning whether or not we will hatch chickens next year

Could you sell your hatchlings to others? I stopped into a farm store today and chicks were $6.49 each—-about double precovid prices. Feed prices were equally mindblowing.

[mum]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:56 AM, kbutton said:

Thank you! It's a long recovery, but it will be worth it (scoliosis fusion/rods). 

I've watched this recovery. It is long, and rough the first couple of weeks (well it was for the extensive one I witnessed). But very worth it.

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Could you sell your hatchlings to others? I stopped into a farm store today and chicks were $6.49 each—-about double precovid prices. Feed prices were equally mindblowing.

That was the original plan way back when but we’re a bit out the way so need a back up plan as they often don’t sell. And yeah, there’s a reason chicks are up in price because the cost of keeping them has doubled as well. It’s only a hobby for us but the idea is that it’s a somewhat self-funding one.

[Melissa in Australia]

We culled all  the pigeons we had as a left over pet of one of the children who have now left home.there were about 30 of them or more. They were eating a lot of wheat a day. We gave them all to the respite worker who works with the twins. She is recently from Africa and loves eating pigeon 

I am now looking at the silkies. Some of them are 8 or so years old. They don’t lay really anymore. If the price of grain skyrockets like they are predicting they will have to go. There are 16 of them.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

17 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

We culled all  the pigeons we had as a left over pet of one of the children who have now left home.there were about 30 of them or more. They were eating a lot of wheat a day. We gave them all to the respite worker who works with the twins. She is recently from Africa and loves eating pigeon 

I am now looking at the silkies. Some of them are 8 or so years old. They don’t lay really anymore. If the price of grain skyrockets like they are predicting they will have to go. There are 16 of them.

 

Have the silkies been pets for you? If so, I am sorry.

I grew up on a farm and thinning the flock was just what was done. You’ll still probably get a couple of pounds of meat per bird for stewing. I’d rather keep birds that’ll lay if I am having to pay feed costs. Pasturing the flock only helps so much in keeping them fed.