spin-off college love/life choices

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

 

 

I'm going to throw a curveball here ... dd wanted to get married and that's why she approached dating the way she did. She wanted to meet someone she could build a life with. Finding someone that shares her values, has similar goals, religious beliefs, and had a great connection with was really, really hard. She decided to download two dating apps and meet lots of people. She matched with crazy amounts of people right off the bat, narrowed the list down a lot through those convos pretty quick. She went on a fair amount of first dates just to meet people. DD didn't really go on second dates very often. Usually she knew after the first date that it wasn't right. I was actually frustrated with her for not giving some people more of a chance. Hear me now "but he's a med student" haha. She always said "When I find a connection worth exploring, I will know". I had to learn to trust her. She was learning to trust herself. She did this once and then stepped away from it all. She did it a second time more open minded and met her fiancé. She was right, she did know when she knew. He was the only guy to ever get more than 2 dates. 

 

 

No, I mean a lot of people don't even feel compelled to talk about it before the third date or longer. Before 3 dates, there isn't even a reason to talk about it. After 3 dates some people think it is good to just make sure you're on the same page but no one expects that convo before the 3rd date. Are we seeing other people? or are we just seeing where this goes first?  

See, I think it’s entirely different if a person has the goal of meeting a spouse! I think, in that case, it’s important to be true to those values and goals — and to be upfront with dates to be sure they are on the same page.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

 

 

I'm going to throw a curveball here ... dd wanted to get married and that's why she approached dating the way she did. She wanted to meet someone she could build a life with. Finding someone that shares her values, has similar goals, religious beliefs, and had a great connection with was really, really hard. She decided to download two dating apps and meet lots of people. She matched with crazy amounts of people right off the bat, narrowed the list down a lot through those convos pretty quick. She went on a fair amount of first dates just to meet people. DD didn't really go on second dates very often. Usually she knew after the first date that it wasn't right. I was actually frustrated with her for not giving some people more of a chance. Hear me now "but he's a med student" haha. She always said "When I find a connection worth exploring, I will know". I had to learn to trust her. She was learning to trust herself. She did this once and then stepped away from it all. She did it a second time more open minded and met her fiancé. She was right, she did know when she knew. He was the only guy to ever get more than 2 dates. 

 

 

 

I think she sounds like a girl who knew what she wanted. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, I absolutely would discourage that. 

Fortunately, he has no interest in a serious relationship right now. 

While I respect your thoughts, I think it is sad that you would discourage it. We think we can easily find those sort of connections but they don't actually come that often. I wouldn't push my young adult to marry by any means but I also wouldn't discourage them if that's what they wanted. I would hate to be the person they later regret because they gave up a connection they couldn't quite find again. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

While I respect your thoughts, I think it is sad that you would discourage it. We think we can easily find those sort of connections but they don't actually come that often. I wouldn't push my young adult to marry by any means but I also wouldn't discourage them if that's what they wanted. I would hate to be the person they later regret because they gave up a connection they couldn't quite find again. 

I wouldn’t discourage a relationship that had been building over time, but I would not encourage marriage. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I wonder how much of that is shaped culturally. 

I would assume that culture and religion have a lot to do with it. Your religion is far more restrictive than many when it comes to things like dating. And if it works for you, that’s great and I am genuinely happy for you. But it wouldn’t work for my family, nor would it work for the people I know.

Dating is just dating. It’s fun; the idea of not dating anyone who you don’t view as a prospective spouse, is totally foreign to me.

[Ann.without.an.e]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I wouldn’t discourage a relationship that had been building over time, but I would not encourage marriage. 

I respect your thoughts behind it. I'm afraid that at his age, if he was in a long term relationship with someone and you discouraged marriage, that wouldn't set you up to have a great relationship with either of them. I guess I'd be afraid of damaging your relationship in the process if you're too strong headed that direction. Be careful with that ❤️ It isn't something you have to worry about right now but it is something to keep in mind.

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I respect your thoughts behind it. I'm afraid that at his age, if he was in a long term relationship with someone and you discouraged marriage, that wouldn't set you up to have a great relationship with either of them. I guess I'd be afraid of damaging your relationship in the process if you're too strong headed that direction. Be careful with that ❤️ It isn't something you have to worry about right now but it is something to keep in mind.

Thanks. You’re very kind, and I appreciate that!

My ds and I have discussed this so many times that even if I didn’t say a word, he would know how I felt. 😉 

He also knows that the final decision would be his. And because he’s already 22 and is not interested in any kind of long term relationship, it will probably be quite some time before any of this is even an issue. 🙂  

[Cordelia]

DH and I were 21 and 20 when we got married. We had both just finished our undergraduate degrees. DH was upfront with me that he was looking to find a life partner, and I was on the same page. I don't see anything wrong with casual dating, as long as the casual nature is communicated clearly and both people are in agreement about it. 

DH and I are very happy.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Cordelia said:

DH and I were 21 and 20 when we got married. We had both just finished our undergraduate degrees. DH was upfront with me that he was looking to find a life partner, and I was on the same page. I don't see anything wrong with casual dating, as long as the casual nature is communicated clearly and both people are in agreement about it. 

DH and I are very happy.

I think that is absolutely the right attitude!

If both people are looking for the right person to marry, there may be no reason at all to date other people, but if both people want to keep it casual, that’s great, too. The only problem is when one person is looking for something the other person is not, but they aren’t upfront about it. That can just lead to a lot of hurt feelings and disappointment. Honesty is key! 

[Bootsie]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think only those two people can answer that.  

IME, one of those two people can consider that a "date" while the other person considers it two friends going somewhere together.  I think when a lot of people talk about casually dating several people they are talking about situations like that where it isn't clearly a romantic outing but perhaps one (or both) wonder if there may eventually be romantic interest.  

[Clarita]

I may have been decent at academics during my high school and college years but I was stupid in dating through college. In fact I would say when I first met my husband when I graduated from college, I was still stupid and not really ready for a seriously relationship. (I also knew he was the man of my dreams so maybe that's part of my problem.) So, I would discourage my children from getting too serious before college. 

I don't think the "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" philosophy is healthy at all. I mean even the author thinks it's a bad idea after he matured for a bit. I think the only date/get romantic with someone only when you are ready to marry puts a lot of pressure on people. Especially in a society where you have to find your own mate. 

In my experience having your teenage boyfriend break your teenage heart is less hurtful than a lot of other things in your life now or in the future. My heart breaks during those years braced me for the things to come. 

[TexasProud]

Of course this is just my musing. Doesn't matter for my kids at all. My 26yo has never been on a date. Girls scare him I think, but since he works at home, I don't know how he would ever meet any. My poor 24yo dated one girl at the very end of his senior year and fell HARD.  They broke up as they were going to different colleges. He asked one other girl out and she said no, she wasn't interested in dating and then ended up going out on a date with his roommate later that week....  All of his friends are married now and many have children. He would love to be married. My 20yo is very similar to me. She dated a couple of boys for  like a month ( not at the same time), but broke it off. She is way too busy to date. She wants to be able to go anywhere to perform, so she is working on her career.  That said, she does want to have a family at some point. But Covid has not made dating very easy with how restrictive it has been on campus, especially her freshman year.  And this year, she has had so many shows, I don't know when she would go out.  And most of the young men in  her musical theater are gay. So not many options for dating. But tons for sweet, good friends.  

[frogger]

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

The whole idea that the point of dating or being in a relationship is solely to get married is so…antiquated…to me. I’m grateful I neither had those expectations for myself nor have them for DS. 
 

Dating is fun. Relationships are fun. They don’t need to “go” anywhere. And hurt is good for growth; some of my best years included lots of heartache and hurt. 
 

 

Just jumping off your post but...

What is strange is my understanding of "old fashioned" courting is that you were just getting to know people which means you could date as many people as you want at the same time. Maybe it depended on where you were but that was my impression.

I'm a fan of that kind of dating. Honestly, even if you are looking for a life partner wouldn't it make more sense to get to know a variety of people and think things through rather than keep tying yourself seriously to someone before you know they are the right type of person? I don't mean sleeping with everyone of course. I just mean being free to get to know lots of people. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Because I don’t want him to have to compromise while he’s still deciding what he wants out of life.

As soon as you get married, it’s not about you as an individual anymore; it’s about two people and having to try to keep both people happy. I want my ds to do what he wants to do, not be tied down in a young marriage. I know that kind of thing works for a lot of people, and I’m happy for them, but my ds has a lot of opportunities that he might miss out on if he were to marry at a young age.

If he decides that he never wants to get married, that’s fine, too. Or if he wants to live with someone without getting married, I will be fine with that — and I would actually much prefer that he live with someone for a while before getting married, to see how they get along before making that commitment.

 

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

What if he decided he wanted to get married right now?  Would you discourage that? What if he felt having a life partner was more important to him than doing exactly what he wanted all the time.

 

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, I absolutely would discourage that. 

Fortunately, he has no interest in a serious relationship right now. 

Okay, Scarlett asked and you answered the same thing I was wondering. I found it interesting that you said you were fine with him never getting married or fine if he decided to live with someone first, but that you are not fine if he were to decide to get married at an age you consider young (since he’s 22 now, he’s already past the point of being able to get married at a truly very young age).

I did not grow up in a culture where getting married young was a common thing and had zero plans or expectations of that myself, but ended up meeting the right person much earlier than I would’ve thought and the feeling was mutual, and there’s no way we wanted to wait any longer then immediately after college graduation to get married. It would’ve been devastating to me if my parents had had a negative reaction to our plans to marry. Truly would have been, and would have hurt my relationship with them a lot because I would’ve chosen my husband over my family at that point. Which would have been the right choice. We are an excellent match, and we knew that from the start. I have a couple friends who have a similar viewpoint to you, one having gone so far as to “forbid” her adult daughter from getting married until after getting a masters degree at least. This despite the daughter meeting someone before she graduated college that she would’ve liked to marry. I don’t see that as any different than being unsupportive of an adult child in any number of other perfectly moral and legal decisions they might make about their life. It just seems like it should go both ways, and I’m more appreciative than ever that my parents didn’t balk. It’s always a little surprising to me that they didn’t, actually, but they said they trusted me and my decision making. There was no religious component to this for me; like I said, I did not grow up with any kind of expectations around dating behaviors or marriage. 
 

I can understand a parent who has their own personal opinions and wishes about when they think is the ideal time for their kids to get married, but it’s hard for me to understand actively discouraging an adult child from marrying when they want to marry unless there is an actual red flag with the person or the relationship. 🤷‍♀️

[Rosie_0801]

What difference are people seeing between defacto relationships and marriage?

[Jean in Newcastle]

11 minutes ago, frogger said:

Just jumping off your post but...

What is strange is my understanding of "old fashioned" courting is that you were just getting to know people which means you could date as many people as you want at the same time. Maybe it depended on where you were but that was my impression.

I'm a fan of that kind of dating. Honestly, even if you are looking for a life partner wouldn't it make more sense to get to know a variety of people and think things through rather than keep tying yourself seriously to someone before you know they are the right type of person? I don't mean sleeping with everyone of course. I just mean being free to get to know lots of people. 

I agree with getting to know lots of people.  But "back in my day" dating was different from courting.  Courting was more serious and did have marriage in mind.  But also "back in my day" we did a lot of what was called "group dates" then and might now be just called "hanging out". 

[Catwoman]

46 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

 

Okay, Scarlett asked and you answered the same thing I was wondering. I found it interesting that you said you were fine with him never getting married or fine if he decided to live with someone first, but that you are not fine if he were to decide to get married at an age you consider young (since he’s 22 now, he’s already past the point of being able to get married at a truly very young age).

I did not grow up in a culture where getting married young was a common thing and had zero plans or expectations of that myself, but ended up meeting the right person much earlier than I would’ve thought and the feeling was mutual, and there’s no way we wanted to wait any longer then immediately after college graduation to get married. It would’ve been devastating to me if my parents had had a negative reaction to our plans to marry. Truly would have been, and would have hurt my relationship with them a lot because I would’ve chosen my husband over my family at that point. Which would have been the right choice. We are an excellent match, and we knew that from the start. I have a couple friends who have a similar viewpoint to you, one having gone so far as to “forbid” her adult daughter from getting married until after getting a masters degree at least. This despite the daughter meeting someone before she graduated college that she would’ve liked to marry. I don’t see that as any different than being unsupportive of an adult child in any number of other perfectly moral and legal decisions they might make about their life. It just seems like it should go both ways, and I’m more appreciative than ever that my parents didn’t balk. It’s always a little surprising to me that they didn’t, actually, but they said they trusted me and my decision making. There was no religious component to this for me; like I said, I did not grow up with any kind of expectations around dating behaviors or marriage. 
 

I can understand a parent who has their own personal opinions and wishes about when they think is the ideal time for their kids to get married, but it’s hard for me to understand actively discouraging an adult child from marrying when they want to marry unless there is an actual red flag with the person or the relationship. 🤷‍♀️

Except that my son doesn’t want to get married, and he agrees that 22 is way too young to even consider marriage. He doesn’t even want any kind of serious relationship now.

My son has a lot of serious goals in life, and has no interest in marriage. He wants to travel extensively, complete his education, and establish his career without any hindrances — and a spouse and potential children would be tremendous responsibilities that he simply doesn’t want.

Others may feel differently, but my son doesn’t want to give up these years of being relatively carefree and enjoying his life on his own terms. 

If someone wants to get married young and it’s the right thing for them, that’s fine, but many of us don’t want the responsibilities of marriage and family when we’re young — there is plenty of time for that later on. 

[Catwoman]

52 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

What difference are people seeing between defacto relationships and marriage?

Some people seem to believe that the goal of dating is marriage, period. 

I completely disagree.  🙂 

Many people also believe that the only acceptable long term relationship is marriage, and while I’m fine with couples living together, many are not.

I think I might be in the minority here, though! 😉 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Catwoman
Forgot something!

[Jaybee]

52 minutes ago, frogger said:

I'm a fan of that kind of dating. Honestly, even if you are looking for a life partner wouldn't it make more sense to get to know a variety of people and think things through rather than keep tying yourself seriously to someone before you know they are the right type of person? I don't mean sleeping with everyone of course. I just mean being free to get to know lots of people. 

I only ever really dated the man I married. But in high school and even more in college, lots of us hung out together, went on trips to conferences, etc., and it was not hard to narrow down who I was seriously interested in from that. We saw each other in a variety of situations and had good conversations. I think it was a very healthy way to spend time with people without having a romantic relationship. I got to know character, and who had the kind of character I was interested in. There was no need to do a lot of dating around, because I had already ruled out most of them without having any emotional ties to have to break. And we had fun--probably more than lots of the people who dated a lot--because we were really ourselves with no need to impress.

[BlsdMama]

From the first post - you made me think.  Yes, I think spouses make a world of difference -especially if we're young.  Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.......

My first "real" high school boyfriend is in prison for 3rd strike - dealing meth.  I had a knack for making destructive choices.  I dated DH is my senior year - I have no doubt I would have inevitably broken up with him if I hadn't gotten pregnant because I just generally knew how to break things.  

Life would have been wildly different.  I admit I was a little shook up when I found out he was busted again.  I feel bad for him - his mom died while we were dating and he never got along with his dad.  He didn't deal well with being adopted and I can guarantee his ADHD should have been medicated.  But I do think that he was a genuinely nice guy and I wish his life could have been different and better.  That said? Could have been me.... I'm so aware of the fact that due to my choices my life could have gone so differently.  I "joke" sometimes and say we homeschool due to my horrid choices through high school, but truly I'm dead serious - we homeschool in large part because of my horrid choices in high school.  Young and stupid and impetuous with peers who find you amusing is a destructive way to live the teenage years.  Come to think of it, I would have been a great candidate for ADHD drugs.  Would that I had a clue.

But going back to your point I wonder why it is that some of us are influenced rather than influencing? Like why did marrying my husband encourage me to live to potential instead of me dragging him down? Just a random thought like the end of your post when you thought about he would have influenced you?

DH has been more nurturing to my creativity and strengths I think.... Maybe that's why? He had a strong sense of who he was and I was still sorting through.

Edited February 24, 2022 by BlsdMama

[KSera]

17 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Except that my son doesn’t want to get married, and he agrees that 22 is way too young to even consider marriage. He doesn’t even want any kind of serious relationship now.

My son has a lot of serious goals in life, and has no interest in marriage. He wants to travel extensively, complete his education, and establish his career without any hindrances — and a spouse and potential children would be tremendous responsibilities that he simply doesn’t want.

Others may feel differently, but my son doesn’t want to give up these years of being relatively carefree and enjoying his life on his own terms. 

If someone wants to get married young and it’s the right thing for them, that’s fine, but many of us don’t want the responsibilities of marriage and family when we’re young — there is plenty of time for that later on. 

Oh totally that means this isn't an issue you face, which is great. The question though was WHAT IF he felt differently. I would have hoped that IF he felt differently about that (or if he suddenly met someone who turned all of what he thought he wanted on its head because he really, really wanted to experience all of those goals and traveling with this person he loved by his side), that if one of those things changed, hopefully you would support him in that is all I was saying. I understand this isn't a scenario you are ever likely to face.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

 

 

Okay, Scarlett asked and you answered the same thing I was wondering. I found it interesting that you said you were fine with him never getting married or fine if he decided to live with someone first, but that you are not fine if he were to decide to get married at an age you consider young (since he’s 22 now, he’s already past the point of being able to get married at a truly very young age).

I did not grow up in a culture where getting married young was a common thing and had zero plans or expectations of that myself, but ended up meeting the right person much earlier than I would’ve thought and the feeling was mutual, and there’s no way we wanted to wait any longer then immediately after college graduation to get married. It would’ve been devastating to me if my parents had had a negative reaction to our plans to marry. Truly would have been, and would have hurt my relationship with them a lot because I would’ve chosen my husband over my family at that point. Which would have been the right choice. We are an excellent match, and we knew that from the start. I have a couple friends who have a similar viewpoint to you, one having gone so far as to “forbid” her adult daughter from getting married until after getting a masters degree at least. This despite the daughter meeting someone before she graduated college that she would’ve liked to marry. I don’t see that as any different than being unsupportive of an adult child in any number of other perfectly moral and legal decisions they might make about their life. It just seems like it should go both ways, and I’m more appreciative than ever that my parents didn’t balk. It’s always a little surprising to me that they didn’t, actually, but they said they trusted me and my decision making. There was no religious component to this for me; like I said, I did not grow up with any kind of expectations around dating behaviors or marriage. 
 

I can understand a parent who has their own personal opinions and wishes about when they think is the ideal time for their kids to get married, but it’s hard for me to understand actively discouraging an adult child from marrying when they want to marry unless there is an actual red flag with the person or the relationship. 🤷‍♀️

My husband and I married relatively young for our education level and demographic group, at age 23. As someone who always excelled at school, but also always had low self esteem, I know for a fact that I would not have moved half way across the country to attend an Ivy League university for grad school had I not been married. Even being married, it was very difficult, as we both found the area very unfriendly and of course grad school is often not enjoyable. But having my husband 100% behind me every step of the way allowed me to finish my degree, which has served me very well career-wise. My husband wanted my career aspirations, not his, to be the priority when we first got married. He turned down medical school and graduate school to work for a few years while I went to grad school. I didn’t ask him to do this and we could have went simultaneously at the local state U, but he was somewhat undecided about his future goals and really wanted me to go for the prestigious program.

And following along with the theme of the thread. My boyfriend throughout most of college (before I started dating my husband), also was accepted to and turned down medical school and instead pursued a PhD as my husband ultimately did. They actually ended up in related fields with one doing research and the other practicing. But he lives in NJ, as that is where the research arm of his industry is primarily located, which is not a place I would at all want to live. I do miss his siblings, though. I’m not close to my SIL anymore and was very close to two of his four siblings, one male and one female. But my husband is far more multi-talented and interesting and a much more overall positive and upbeat person. They are both kind, nice people. But my ex could be more morose and prone to melancholy. Plus, I really love my husband’s self-confidence and approach to life, making the most of everyday. I was probably too much like my ex.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Frances

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Oh totally that means this isn't an issue you face, which is great. The question though was WHAT IF he felt differently. I would have hoped that IF he felt differently about that (or if he suddenly met someone who turned all of what he thought he wanted on its head because he really, really wanted to experience all of those goals and traveling with this person he loved by his side), that if one of those things changed, hopefully you would support him in that is all I was saying. I understand this isn't a scenario you are ever likely to face.

Oh, I’m sorry I misunderstood your question!

My ds knows that I will always support him, no matter what. But he also knows that I will be honest with him, and because we have serious discussions all the time and we talk about just about everything, I’m sure he would talk things out with me. If we went over all of the pros and cons and he was still determined to do something I thought was a bad idea, I would support his right to make his own decision, and I would support that decision. 

But he’s a practical guy, and he is also financially motivated, so marrying young was never something he was even remotely interested in doing. He has other priorities right now, and I’m so glad that he does!  🙂 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

My husband and I married relatively young for our education level and demographic group, at age 23. As someone who always excelled at school, but also always had low self esteem, I know for a fact that I would not have moved half way across the country to attend an Ivy League university for grad school had I not been married. Even being married, it was very difficult, as we both found the area very unfriendly and of course grad school is often not enjoyable. But having my husband 100% behind me every step of the way allowed me to finish my degree, which has served me very well career-wise. My husband wanted my career aspirations, not his, to be the priority when we first got married. He turned down medical school and graduate school to work for a few years while I went to grad school. I didn’t ask him to do this and we could have went simultaneously at the local state U, but he was somewhat undecided about his future goals and really wanted me to go for the prestigious program.

Your dh sounds like a keeper!!! 🥰

Edited February 24, 2022 by Catwoman

[Rosie_0801]

32 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Many people also believe that the only acceptable long term relationship is marriage, and while I’m fine with couples living together, many are not.

I don't understand why you would be comfortable for your son to be in a defacto relationship but not married. The only real difference I'm aware of is expense, but that doesn't seem to be your issue. Defacto relationships are married without the paperwork. It's no less emotionally painful or messy to end a defacto relationship than a marriage. 

[Faith-manor]

43 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Some people seem to believe that the goal of dating is marriage, period. 

I completely disagree.  🙂 

Many people also believe that the only acceptable long term relationship is marriage, and while I’m fine with couples living together, many are not.

I think I might be in the minority here, though! 😉 

You have company. Dh and I believe the same.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I don't understand why you would be comfortable for your son to be in a defacto relationship but not married. The only real difference I'm aware of is expense, but that doesn't seem to be your issue. Defacto relationships are married without the paperwork. It's no less emotionally painful or messy to end a defacto relationship than a marriage. 

I think you missed my point.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with him being in ANY serious relationship right now because he’s only 22.  But if he eventually meets someone he loves, I would much prefer he live with her for a while before they get married, to see if they are as compatible as they think they will be.

Living together for a while before marriage also keeps finances separate, which will be an important consideration for my ds. He will almost certainly want a pre-nuptial agreement before he marries anyone.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Catwoman
Forgot something!

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

You have company. Dh and I believe the same.

Thanks! Come sit by me. I’ll bring the cupcakes. 🙂 

[Sneezyone]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

No regrets about my dating life. And I do have a few stories like this. Including a guy whose heart I cruelly broke. We were getting more and more serious, I was planning to go live with him out of college. And all the while, I kept having more and more fears that I couldn't quite express to him. When dh came along, I jumped ship. It was horrible of me. He was a wonderful person. So I regret that it went down that way and I was not a good person in it... but also, it happened because of things he was not accepting of. I mean, it's so far in the past. Last I heard he was working in a pretty big tech job, pretty successful, not married last I saw him at a wedding, but that was now a decade ago.

I did the same. Great guy just wrong for me. He wanted marriage and kids. I wanted a career and stable, upper-middle class life. I gave him a very expensive (and tacky) parting gift that I financed on credit and called it a day. Bestie still reminds me of my horribleness. He has 6-8 kids now and lives a hand to mouth life with his partner/wife (of all of the kids). Thats not the life I wanted...ever.

[fairfarmhand]

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think if I had a daughter and she was dating someone who was also dating other women….wow.  I would tell her to run far and fast. 

I don’t know. If it was like coffee a movie, just friend stuff…then it wouldn’t bother me but I don’t think my dd would call it dating either. More of just hanging out.

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think you missed my point.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with him being in ANY serious relationship right now because he’s only 22.  But if he eventually meets someone he loves, I would much prefer he live with her for a while before they get married, to see if they are as compatible as they think they will be.

I think a significant chunk of young adults agree with you. At least in my world, living together before marriage seems to be the norm, not the exception. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Frances said:

I think a significant chunk of young adults agree with you. At least in my world, living together before marriage seems to be the norm, not the exception. 

The young adults I know seem to feel the same way. It’s so much easier to end things if the relationship doesn’t work out. Divorce is a real headache even if both people are reasonable about it, but it’s a true nightmare (and can be a big expense!) if one or both parties want to make it difficult.

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I did the same. Great guy just wrong for me. He wanted marriage and kids. I wanted a career and stable, upper-middle class life. I gave him a very expensive (and tacky) parting gift that I financed on credit and called it a day. Bestie still reminds me of my horribleness. He has 6-8 kids now and lives a hand to mouth life with his partner/wife (of all of the kids). Thats not the life I wanted...ever.

It sounds like you made a good choice!!!

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Thanks! Come sit by me. I’ll bring the cupcakes. 🙂 

Sounds good!

 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Catwoman said:

It sounds like you made a good choice!!!

It was but I hurt him and still feel bad for that. The bracelet gift is worth at least 2Gs today tho so it was a "lovely parting gift" (In my best Pat Sajak voice). If I hadn't ever had that 2yr relationship. I wouldn't have clarified my needs/goals or met DH (who was dirt poor) but had the same goals and expectations. I only seriously dated two people so there were no further catastrophes.

[1234]

16 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think a significant chunk of young adults agree with you. At least in my world, living together before marriage seems to be the norm, not the exception. 

Yes, Ds (22) and his fiancé are living together. They are engaged and have been living together for about six months but aren’t planning to actually get married for another year. I think it’s good and I do hope it works out. 

Dh and I married after knowing each other for only four months and I was 21 (he was 24). That was good too and obviously has worked out well so far.

I think it just all depends on the people involved and there isn’t actually any right way to do it.

[Rosie_0801]

53 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The young adults I know seem to feel the same way. It’s so much easier to end things if the relationship doesn’t work out. Divorce is a real headache even if both people are reasonable about it, but it’s a true nightmare (and can be a big expense!) if one or both parties want to make it difficult.

Only if there is no money and no kids involved...

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Only if there is no money and no kids involved...

As long as the money hasn’t been combined and not too much time has passed, finances shouldn’t be a problem. 

But you’re absolutely right — I’m assuming that there are no children. As soon as children are involved, everything changes! 

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

But he’s a practical guy, and he is also financially motivated, so marrying young was never something he was even remotely interested in doing. He has other priorities right now, and I’m so glad that he does!  🙂 

Interesting financially speaking we would have been better off had my husband and I gotten married a few years earlier than we did. Having kids is a money drain for sure, but having a spouse shouldn't be a financial drain. It's funny that we usually associate having a spouse also limiting finances. 

[Laura Corin]

10 hours ago, MEmama said:

The whole idea that the point of dating or being in a relationship is solely to get married is so…antiquated…to me. I’m grateful I neither had those expectations for myself nor have them for DS. 
 

Dating is fun. Relationships are fun. They don’t need to “go” anywhere. And hurt is good for growth; some of my best years included lots of heartache and hurt. 
 

 

Yes. I had my first serious relationship at 17. Met my future husband at 25. Married him at 29. He was previously married  - his wife went off with someone else. We had both had multiple relationships by the time we met, and both knew what we wanted.  

Thirty years married this year, so 34 years together. I wouldn't change a thing.

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

What difference are people seeing between defacto relationships and marriage?

With two out of  my three children, there was hiding the true state of the relationship from the other set of parents- who were more conservative or controlling than we are.  For the third, it met not meeting the future step children until within 2 months of the marriage.   Also 2 out of three and in a different combination than then the first 2/3, were living in separate places before marriage. 

[TexasProud]

7 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

But going back to your point I wonder why it is that some of us are influenced rather than influencing? Like why did marrying my husband encourage me to live to potential instead of me dragging him down? Just a random thought like the end of your post when you thought about he would have influenced you?

DH has been more nurturing to my creativity and strengths I think.... Maybe that's why? He had a strong sense of who he was and I was still sorting through.

Always interesting the turns the threads take. Thanks for coming back to the real theme of the thread. 

I don't know. I think with the high school boyfriend, I would have been the main influencer because I was a stronger person than he was. He had do ambition at all. He just kind of drifted. That is actually what my "big brother" pointed out to me that night that he talked to me.  And to be honest, most of the relationships had a quality of rescuing to them. That is what made my current husband so attractive to me. Phi Beta Kappa. Top of his med school class. Involved in missions and wanting to do that.  He was also the most humble guy ever. When I had to stay in the hospital once, I probably had 10 or more nurses come by and tell me how wonderful hubby was. How nice he always was to them. How he always treated them with respect.  He comes from a family of teachers. He never feels the need to impress or use big words. He is so good at explaining things. He is a peacemaker and in his practice, everyone looked to him to keep the other hot-headed arrogant surgeons working together. Somehow he is the one everyone turned to. He could diffuse situations. As my best friend said, when you talk to Dr. xxx, your blood pressure goes down.

 He had a step by step plan for his life. And though he is soft-spoken, there is a quiet determination. Since I had no life dreams of my own after I realized that I would never be the next Amy Grant, I just helped him achieve his. I've realized, actually in this last 6 weeks when he was gone overseas, that over my life my role has always been to bring the goals and dreams of everyone else to life.  I don't really have any. It used to bother me, maybe still does, that in 50 years, no one will care that I was even here on the planet. No one. I will just be a name to the great-grandchildren. Heck. I may not have any grandchildren at this rate. So no one will care. I will have done nothing important that anyone will care about. 

He is very willing now to really help me achieve my dreams. I have none. I will never be anything great. Ever. So instead, I will continue to help him with his and other organizations with theirs. 

Yeah, without my husband, I would be in a very, very different place and probably dead to be honest. 

[Faith-manor]

I was proposed to twice by two different men before I met, dated, and eventually married Mark. In both of the other cases, the old adage, "Don't ask questions you don't already know the answer to" would have been appropriate. In the first case, I was feeling some red flags for compatibility or character issues that I would not be willing to overlook. I was very serious about the first person, but not the second one.

In the case of significant other number one, I was tied in knots internally but had made up my mind that I was going to break up with him, and on the same day that I asked him to dinner to talk, he ended up arriving with a ring. He didn't take it well to say the least. I tried to stop him from getting to the embarrassing down on one knee in front of the restaurant only to get turned down moment, but he just would not take a hint or listen when I said I needed to speak first. Yes, that was one of the red flags. He had a lot of good qualities at that time, but listening or thinking that if my opinion differed from his it might be worth considering was NOT one of them.

He didn't date for a long time afterward. The hurt was real for sure. I eventually moved on, moved to another state, married dh, and for years never heard anything about him. About a decade later I was at a family funeral and someone who knew him thought it was appropriate to bring up ex boyfriend in front of Mark. 😠🙄 The update was that he had become an alcoholic and was in jail for a DUI that caused a terrible accident. I was saddened to hear how things turned out for him, but it didn't really affect me at all.

The second one was someone I went out with all of four times. That was it. He out of the blue proposed in the cafeteria my freshman year of college in front of a group of us from the music department who were having lunch with our theory professor. It was so embarrassing! Of course my answer was this hissed practically whisper, "No. Get up. This is NOT appropriate." As it turns out, I was not the first or last female who would go out with him a few times, immediately have red flags, and experience a bizarre proposal in a public place. He got a little stalkerish with the woman after me, and the college had to expel him. I think he was mentally ill. I never heard what happened to him.

Dh used to laugh about being third in line. But, he was the right one for sure. 34 years in June and despite the stresses of life and some tough stuff we have been through like my father's mental illness, violence, and legal woes before dying of cancer, he is my best friend and better half.

Our daughter was also proposed to by someone she had to turn down. This was another situation in which she very much loved a young man for whom she was seeing some things that would problematic if their relationship continued. Like boyfriend number one in my story, it seems that the proposed marriage was a way of pressuring her to stay in the relationship when he realized she was making hints that they either needed to step back, slow down, re-evaluate and talk about some issues, or break up.

I am totally against the courtship model. Too much pressure from the beginning that relationships are supposed to end in marriage. I think participants then internalize that pressure which can make them ignore instincts and warning signs. 

Life is tough. We don't really worry about how many people our younf adults date. Take time to really get to know someone before hitching your wagon to them legally is how we have advised the kids. Though we married young by today's standards, not one of our college friends who did the same is still married, and most of their divorces were just acrimonious disasters. The ones we know who didn't marry until much later in their twenties or even their early thirties have been so much more stable and happily married. So of course personal experience influences how we  advice our kids.

[frogger]

10 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I don’t know. If it was like coffee a movie, just friend stuff…then it wouldn’t bother me but I don’t think my dd would call it dating either. More of just hanging out.

Yes this is a matter of semantics. I think of going on dates as dating but I suppose that most of the world thinks of some quasi marriage state in which you make a commitment and sort of own each other (as in you can get mad if they go out with someone else) but it isn't a real commitment because you can quasi divorce them so easily. I personally wouldn't want to practice divorcing people. It sounds painful and sad and awkward.

 

I guess I can't say I ever dated anyone by that definition. I went to prom and hiking and to the movies and went out to eat one on one to really get to know potential mates but I did not quasi marry them. When I decided to commit to someone I did it for real and am still with that person 26 years later. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by frogger
Missed a word

[skimomma]

I have a young adult that is struggling with casual dating.  She has no interest in a serious relationship right now but wants to casually date.  She was in two "serious" relationships in high school and even those only became "serious" because the local dating culture basically forbids dating multiple people simultaneously.  So, you either are "in a relationship" or not dating at all after the first date or two. She is in college now and this is still a problem.  She has dated (as in been on one or more dates) with 10ish different people this year.  And she quickly learned that the guys think it is "exclusive" right away. She now opens this conversation on the first date.  That she is not interested in a relationship but is happy to non-exclusively do things together.  This has not gone over well.  In all but one case so far, the guy has said they ARE looking for a relationship and she then says it is probably best to not hang out.  I am sympathetic in that she is not getting to do what she wants but also I do think she is trying to buck the trend and that is what it is.  She shares this struggle with other female friends.  It seems, at least in her circle, that the girls want to be casual and the guys want to be serious.  Or at least exclusive.  I don't know that "exclusive" has to equal "serious," but that is how dd interprets it.  All I can do is commiserate.  I got married very young and the casual dating world she wants was not a thing when I was her age either.  I do have to say that I am with some here in that I am glad she is not seeking a serious relationship at this age.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Always interesting the turns the threads take. Thanks for coming back to the real theme of the thread. 

I don't know. I think with the high school boyfriend, I would have been the main influencer because I was a stronger person than he was. He had do ambition at all. He just kind of drifted. That is actually what my "big brother" pointed out to me that night that he talked to me.  And to be honest, most of the relationships had a quality of rescuing to them. That is what made my current husband so attractive to me. Phi Beta Kappa. Top of his med school class. Involved in missions and wanting to do that.  He was also the most humble guy ever. When I had to stay in the hospital once, I probably had 10 or more nurses come by and tell me how wonderful hubby was. How nice he always was to them. How he always treated them with respect.  He comes from a family of teachers. He never feels the need to impress or use big words. He is so good at explaining things. He is a peacemaker and in his practice, everyone looked to him to keep the other hot-headed arrogant surgeons working together. Somehow he is the one everyone turned to. He could diffuse situations. As my best friend said, when you talk to Dr. xxx, your blood pressure goes down.

 He had a step by step plan for his life. And though he is soft-spoken, there is a quiet determination. Since I had no life dreams of my own after I realized that I would never be the next Amy Grant, I just helped him achieve his. I've realized, actually in this last 6 weeks when he was gone overseas, that over my life my role has always been to bring the goals and dreams of everyone else to life.  I don't really have any. It used to bother me, maybe still does, that in 50 years, no one will care that I was even here on the planet. No one. I will just be a name to the great-grandchildren. Heck. I may not have any grandchildren at this rate. So no one will care. I will have done nothing important that anyone will care about. 

He is very willing now to really help me achieve my dreams. I have none. I will never be anything great. Ever. So instead, I will continue to help him with his and other organizations with theirs. 

Yeah, without my husband, I would be in a very, very different place and probably dead to be honest. 

I have always thought your husband sounds wonderful even when there have been time you weren’t happy. 
 

I know you and I have very different lives but I too have always been the one cheering on everyone else.  I can’t count the people who have come come back to thank me for helping them with their dreams or goals.  It has made me a little sad from time to time but mostly I am content with having people who love me.  Most people won’t be remembered by people beyond our family and friends.  
 

I think you underestimate your influence on your husband. He may have been an entirely different person without you,   That is the  definition of a successful relationship—bringing out the best in each other.  

[frogger]

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I've realized, actually in this last 6 weeks when he was gone overseas, that over my life my role has always been to bring the goals and dreams of everyone else to life.  I don't really have any.

 

You may have never written it down but if this is true then really you were an influencer. Helping someone else achieve their goals is a goal in itself and a noble one. We are all interconnected and everyone depends on others.

 

That being said, I can say I relate. I think part of it is just the time of life. My last two children are in high school. I feel I have little time before it is time for me to step in and care for siblings who are mentally handicapped or the parents who won't talk to me but will probably need care in some form anyway.  And it is hard and it makes you wonder, "Is this it?"  I wish I could say that I had some great gift for caring for others and helping others achieve their dreams but really I don't. I am just here in this place and I'm surrounded by others who need things. 🤷

My husband would be happy to support me in doing anything I wanted but I have no idea what that is. 

 

That is kind of rambling and I have no answers. I just feel in the same boat. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, skimomma said:

I have a young adult that is struggling with casual dating.  She has no interest in a serious relationship right now but wants to casually date.  She was in two "serious" relationships in high school and even those only became "serious" because the local dating culture basically forbids dating multiple people simultaneously.  So, you either are "in a relationship" or not dating at all after the first date or two. She is in college now and this is still a problem.  She has dated (as in been on one or more dates) with 10ish different people this year.  And she quickly learned that the guys think it is "exclusive" right away. She now opens this conversation on the first date.  That she is not interested in a relationship but is happy to non-exclusively do things together.  This has not gone over well.  In all but one case so far, the guy has said they ARE looking for a relationship and she then says it is probably best to not hang out.  I am sympathetic in that she is not getting to do what she wants but also I do think she is trying to buck the trend and that is what it is.  She shares this struggle with other female friends.  It seems, at least in her circle, that the girls want to be casual and the guys want to be serious.  Or at least exclusive.  I don't know that "exclusive" has to equal "serious," but that is how dd interprets it.  All I can do is commiserate.  I got married very young and the casual dating world she wants was not a thing when I was her age either.  I do have to say that I am with some here in that I am glad she is not seeking a serious relationship at this age.

Is this related to the culture at the school she's attending? DD's friends routinely talk to multiple people at a time and hang out in groups.

[Jaybee]

Interesting conversation. I think personality plays into the dating perspectives a lot, as well as the culture one is a part of (college culture, for instance). Mine was such that I'm just generally a serious person. I go deep pretty quickly, so dating casually didn't fit my personality. Besides, I wasn't asked, quite possibly because I was so serious. I had several friends who could date casually and not blink an eye. I didn't try to change them, nor they, me. For me, the groups of friends model worked well to teach me a lot about what I did and didn't want in a guy. I'm an observer of people, so I didn't have to experience it personally to learn from it. There were couples among the friend group. I agree with @Faith-manorabout the courtship model though. That is a lot of pressure.

In spite of what I wrote above though, sometimes I think how easily I might have been swayed to write off differences as "not really a big deal," and it makes me so thankful that my dh is who he is, even though I didn't always recognize how important certain things were to me. In a few months, we will have been married 40 years. I can hardly believe it.

[Bootsie]

DD took a fascinating history class that included an entire segment on the history of dating.  As she talked about it, I found myself reading her course material.  My mom's and my grandmother's opinions about dating, courting, and relationships became so much clearer.  My grandmother had been from a generation that expected ladies to be courted by multiple young men.  Part of the signalling that you were a good catch was that multiple men were pursuing you.  There were rules for your dance card--first dance and last dance with the man escorted you--but the rest of the dance card should be filled with other men; no man would want to escort a woman who couldn't find another dance partner.  

My mom's generation was different, young people were encouraged to participate in exclusive dating at a young age, without any expectation that it was a serious relationship   Parents would even hold dinner parties for adolescent couples that was more like playing house, where couples were paired off and invited as couples.  You danced with the young woman you brought to the school dance; you wouldn't leave her alone to dance with someone else.  Going steady, being pinned or having a guy's class ring, was an important part of dating culture although those relationships were not expected to be permanent, serious relationships.