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Bob Saget 😥


Lady Florida.
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I’ve been sad about this and honestly don’t understand why. I mean it’s usually sad whenever I hear about someone dying, but ugh. I guess it’s because I watched Full House some growing up and then watched it with my dc. It seems he’s been on my tv for a number of years so it’s sad.

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Ok, so I'm going to admit something dumb here. 

I'm bad with names. And faces. This makes me terrible at knowing who most actors are. Plus,  I was busy yesterday, and so when DH told me Bob Saget died I had in my head Pat Sajak - not Bob Saget. I had them mixed up all day, until I saw a tween from John Stamos and thought, "That's odd....doesn't seem like those two would have been close." 

Then it hit me, wrong guy! 

Had I not seen that response by John Stamos I'd still think it was Pat Sajak who had died. (or rather, think that Pat Sajak's name was Bob Saget)

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43 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I am glad there seems to be an autopsy planned. I was at a conference where an expert on aneurysms said that we think they are uncommon because we don't do enough autopsies. They are common in my world.

https://www.johnritterfoundation.org/ritter-rules

 

That was what I was telling my husband- heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm.

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47 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

That was what I was telling my husband- heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm.

And they are, by the way, hereditary even though a lot of doctors still don't understand that fact. Anyone who has a first degree relative with one, needs to be screened every five years. If you have a second degree relative with one, and the relative that connects you has passed or refuses to screen, it's totally legit for you to screen as well in that situation. 

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21 minutes ago, kbutton said:

And they are, by the way, hereditary even though a lot of doctors still don't understand that fact. Anyone who has a first degree relative with one, needs to be screened every five years. If you have a second degree relative with one, and the relative that connects you has passed or refuses to screen, it's totally legit for you to screen as well in that situation. 

DH's cousin died from an aneurysm at 35.  It was such a shock - he was so health conscious.  I knew it was hereditary but didn't think about risk for DH - they are first cousins (same maternal grandmother).  Should I be concerned about DH?  No one else in the family has had one as far as I know and it's a big family.

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37 minutes ago, Kassia said:

DH's cousin died from an aneurysm at 35.  It was such a shock - he was so health conscious.  I knew it was hereditary but didn't think about risk for DH - they are first cousins (same maternal grandmother).  Should I be concerned about DH?  No one else in the family has had one as far as I know and it's a big family.

Yes. 

The actual genes are known for about only 20% of aneurysms, but research is exploding in the field. For a long time, there really wasn't much they could do, but with excellent surgical intervention available, doctors are realizing that it's important to identify people, get them on meds that can help control growth, and then intervene when necessary (family history, genetic diagnosis when available, and emerging studies dictate a lot of the guidelines). I can understand why there was not a push to identify people twenty and thirty years ago when surgery was super risky and only took place when someone was already trying to die, but that's no longer the case. There are some risk factors that make it more/less likely. Not everyone who had aneurysms in their family will have people with a history of dissection--those families tend to have people whose aneurysms develop later in life, but there are exceptions. A dissection is usually what brings it to the forefront unless someone has an incidental finding of one when they are being screened for something else. 

The place to start would be to ask if the cousin's parents and/or siblings were screened and find out what they know. If they were not screened, they should be. If they refused, just go straight to the doctor and say DH needs to be screened because he has a family history, and the relatives closest to the person refuse to be screened to help clarify the risk.

These things skip around in families--in some cases, they see patterns of say, men getting aneurysms, and women not getting aneurysms, but the women have kids that get them (real example)! In my family, we have a mix of people with and without a bicuspid aortic valve getting them--BAV is a big risk factor for one, but not everyone in the family who has an aneurysm has a bicuspid aortic valve. In some cases, you have to look at the larger family history, especially if the aneurysms develop later in life. In my family, I had a cousin with one, but he had been born with multiple heart defects (and is doing very well--surgery when he was an infant was still very early days for what he had, but he did great). His parents were never screened, but then many years later, his dad was found to have two aneurysms, and both were due for surgery asap. Because my cousin had BAV, more screening should've happened. Then, a distant cousin (but one whose ancestor was a double cousin to my grandmother) posted on FB about her dad's aneurysm surgery...well, let's just say that I dug through family history and asked a bunch of questions, which led to DS being diagnosed even though his cause turned out to be completely unrelated (more on that below)! In our family's case, it really does seem to be hit and miss and skip generations. The most significant history prior to this was a lot of congenital heart disease in babies ("blue babies" as they were known back then). My cousin was though to be an anomaly but is not. We have a number of distant relatives that have also had clusters of brain aneurysms. It's crazy. 

On the other side of the family, my grandmother has a brain aneurysm (stable, small), and her first cousin died of a ruptured one.

If there is some big lifestyle thing that the cousin had (cocaine user, etc.), that can make it less likely for your DH to be at risk, but really, too many doctors blame aneurysms on lifestyle when it's not really that big of a factor from what I understand.

If the cousin had a genetic condition that maybe the family hasn't shared more largely, that might also clarify risk for your DH. DH and I both have hereditary stuff in our family, and we have a child with a spontaneous genetic mutation that causes aneurysms. If it were just my child with an aneurysm, I would not need additional screening because I don't share that gene, but because I have another first degree relative with one, and he has first degree relatives with aneurysms, I need to be screened periodically (every five years is the current guideline). I actually have some degree of risk from both sides of the family (aortic on one side; brain on both sides). 

My DH's family has history as well, but his family is more complicated. One possible cause has been ruled out for him, and he also does not have the gene that our son has. 

It helps if you can talk to a genetic counselor, but the wait can be long, and they might be busy enough to screen people out without a more definitive history, but definitely ask! 

Connective tissue disorders put you more at risk, and so do some other disorders, such as polycystic kidney disease (both brain and aortic aneurysms go with PCKD). Smokers with CTDs are just holding a gun to their head, honestly! 

I am less well-versed in the brain aneurysms than in aortic aneurysms. 

Some types of aneurysms, such as abdominal aortic aneurysms are somewhat familial but are also frequently screened for in older adults, especially men and especially smokers. They are probably the most common ones, and the screening protocols for those are the best established.

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5 minutes ago, Kassia said:

@kbutton thank you so much!  I will definitely have DH bring this up with his doctor.  I had no idea he would be at risk because of his cousin (although maybe I should have).  

Most people don't realize heredity is a big factor, and if their doctor has said it's not likely to be a problem because of xyz (oh, they had high BP...), that just makes it harder to get the message out.

I chalk it up to preventive intervention not being feasible until relatively recently--there just wasn't much impetus to know you had one when you couldn't fix it until it dissected. It's all different now, thank God. 🙂 

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2 hours ago, kbutton said:

Yes. 

The actual genes are known for about only 20% of aneurysms, but research is exploding in the field. For a long time, there really wasn't much they could do, but with excellent surgical intervention available, doctors are realizing that it's important to identify people, get them on meds that can help control growth, and then intervene when necessary (family history, genetic diagnosis when available, and emerging studies dictate a lot of the guidelines). I can understand why there was not a push to identify people twenty and thirty years ago when surgery was super risky and only took place when someone was already trying to die, but that's no longer the case. There are some risk factors that make it more/less likely. Not everyone who had aneurysms in their family will have people with a history of dissection--those families tend to have people whose aneurysms develop later in life, but there are exceptions. A dissection is usually what brings it to the forefront unless someone has an incidental finding of one when they are being screened for something else. 

The place to start would be to ask if the cousin's parents and/or siblings were screened and find out what they know. If they were not screened, they should be. If they refused, just go straight to the doctor and say DH needs to be screened because he has a family history, and the relatives closest to the person refuse to be screened to help clarify the risk.

These things skip around in families--in some cases, they see patterns of say, men getting aneurysms, and women not getting aneurysms, but the women have kids that get them (real example)! In my family, we have a mix of people with and without a bicuspid aortic valve getting them--BAV is a big risk factor for one, but not everyone in the family who has an aneurysm has a bicuspid aortic valve. In some cases, you have to look at the larger family history, especially if the aneurysms develop later in life. In my family, I had a cousin with one, but he had been born with multiple heart defects (and is doing very well--surgery when he was an infant was still very early days for what he had, but he did great). His parents were never screened, but then many years later, his dad was found to have two aneurysms, and both were due for surgery asap. Because my cousin had BAV, more screening should've happened. Then, a distant cousin (but one whose ancestor was a double cousin to my grandmother) posted on FB about her dad's aneurysm surgery...well, let's just say that I dug through family history and asked a bunch of questions, which led to DS being diagnosed even though his cause turned out to be completely unrelated (more on that below)! In our family's case, it really does seem to be hit and miss and skip generations. The most significant history prior to this was a lot of congenital heart disease in babies ("blue babies" as they were known back then). My cousin was though to be an anomaly but is not. We have a number of distant relatives that have also had clusters of brain aneurysms. It's crazy. 

On the other side of the family, my grandmother has a brain aneurysm (stable, small), and her first cousin died of a ruptured one.

If there is some big lifestyle thing that the cousin had (cocaine user, etc.), that can make it less likely for your DH to be at risk, but really, too many doctors blame aneurysms on lifestyle when it's not really that big of a factor from what I understand.

If the cousin had a genetic condition that maybe the family hasn't shared more largely, that might also clarify risk for your DH. DH and I both have hereditary stuff in our family, and we have a child with a spontaneous genetic mutation that causes aneurysms. If it were just my child with an aneurysm, I would not need additional screening because I don't share that gene, but because I have another first degree relative with one, and he has first degree relatives with aneurysms, I need to be screened periodically (every five years is the current guideline). I actually have some degree of risk from both sides of the family (aortic on one side; brain on both sides). 

My DH's family has history as well, but his family is more complicated. One possible cause has been ruled out for him, and he also does not have the gene that our son has. 

It helps if you can talk to a genetic counselor, but the wait can be long, and they might be busy enough to screen people out without a more definitive history, but definitely ask! 

Connective tissue disorders put you more at risk, and so do some other disorders, such as polycystic kidney disease (both brain and aortic aneurysms go with PCKD). Smokers with CTDs are just holding a gun to their head, honestly! 

I am less well-versed in the brain aneurysms than in aortic aneurysms. 

Some types of aneurysms, such as abdominal aortic aneurysms are somewhat familial but are also frequently screened for in older adults, especially men and especially smokers. They are probably the most common ones, and the screening protocols for those are the best established.

Interesting. My dad had a AAA that they kept an eye on and eventually he had surgery. I was never told to be screened. Should I? Would it ever show up through another routine check of something else? Or during pregnancy??

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51 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Interesting. My dad had a AAA that they kept an eye on and eventually he had surgery. I was never told to be screened. Should I? Would it ever show up through another routine check of something else? Or during pregnancy??

The abdominal ones are very common in older people, especially men. You can ask about it, but unless other aneurysms are in your family, or you smoke, it's probably something they'll screen for later. 

Here are some links. If you have a connective tissue disorder, then you need to follow guidelines for that disorder.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/abdominal-aortic-aneurysm/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20350693

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There isn't enough evidence to determine whether women ages 65 to 75 who ever smoked cigarettes or have a family history of abdominal aortic aneurysm would benefit from abdominal aortic aneurysm screening. Ask your doctor if you need to have an ultrasound screening based on your risk factors. Women who have never smoked generally don't need to be screened for the condition.

https://vascular.org/referral-resources/who-refer/patients-abdominal-aortic-aneurysm-aaa

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.312436   This is new to me, and I want to look at it more closely, but here is a quick quote: **ETA: This article is excellent and pretty readable for such a detailed overview. If I had noticed that Dianna Milewicz was one author, I would not have put the disclaimer there at all. Anything she publishes is going to be excellent. 

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For abdominal aortic aneurysms, genetic associations have been identified, which provide insight on the molecular pathogenesis but cannot be used clinically yet to identify individuals at risk for abdominal aortic aneurysms.

In my family, the three people that have had AAAs have all been heavy-duty smokers, and only one had a thoracic aortic aneurysm (he has a bicuspid valve also). Two had surgery--one in his 80's and one in his 60's. The other died of other causes in his 80s. All are/were male.

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55 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Interesting. My dad had a AAA that they kept an eye on and eventually he had surgery. I was never told to be screened. Should I? Would it ever show up through another routine check of something else? Or during pregnancy??

They often tell you to wait until you’re 50, but I think I started at around 35 because my grandmother, aunt, and mom all had AAAs. I also get MRAs every 5 years because my grandfather and my brother both died from brain aneurysms. (They also both had very high blood pressure, so it may or may not have been genetic, but I figure I’d rather be safe than sorry.) The good thing is that ultrasounds and MRAs are easy and painless. 

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On 1/10/2022 at 1:03 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Am I the only person who wonders if the heart attack could have been triggered by Covid?  

I guess it's possible but let's remember that heart disease has been the number one killer for years and years, with numbers well beyond covid.

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19 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I guess it's possible but let's remember that heart disease has been the number one killer for years and years, with numbers well beyond covid.

I was at my doctor's about sometthing else entirely as asked him what could the cause be since the autopsy found nothing since my initial thoughts were heart attack, stroke or aneurysms but all those would be found in an autopsy which would not need an additional 10 to 12 weeks to find out.  He said the 2 natural causes that are most common that won't show up in an autopsy are arrhythmias and a seizure.  Neither would leave any signs in the body and the only way to figure out either is through ruling out other causes (which is the 10 to 12 week delay-- if he had an overdose of something) and looking at his medical history and possibly family medical history.  He had medical bottles on his night stand so if toxicology turns out with nothing, maybe those could help them determine cause.

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It sounds like he had covid over the holidays, so recently. According to this, a big study found that risk of heart attack goes up 3 to 8 times in the week after covid, then decreases but stays elevated for at least a month: https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/covid-19-diagnosis-raises-risk-of-heart-attack-stroke#:~:text=In the week after a,three to six times. So it certainly seems plausible that the recent covid might well have had something to do with it. 

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4 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Saget had a sister who died of an aneurysm, so that pushes it to the top of the pile for me. I know they said no signs of drug OD but I won't take fentanyl off the list until they official tox screen comes back clean.

Was that the sister who had Scleroderma?  Because that is an autoimmune connective tissue disease that definitely ups the risk of death in many ways.

As to fentanyl,  I know that is the current boogeyman but I keep getting fentanyl when I have procedures and need to be under anesthesia with zero issues.

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Was that the sister who had Scleroderma?  Because that is an autoimmune connective tissue disease that definitely ups the risk of death in many ways.

As to fentanyl,  I know that is the current boogeyman but I keep getting fentanyl when I have procedures and need to be under anesthesia with zero issues.

No, his other sister. She died in her mid-30's.

Fentanyl is a perfectly fine drug in the hands of medical professionals, which is massively different than the rash of accidental overdoses due to fentanyl being laced in multiple other drugs. It makes no sense to try to compare those encounters.

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2 hours ago, sassenach said:

No, his other sister. She died in her mid-30's.

Fentanyl is a perfectly fine drug in the hands of medical professionals, which is massively different than the rash of accidental overdoses due to fentanyl being laced in multiple other drugs. It makes no sense to try to compare those encounters.

Right. The problem with people ODing on it is that it is much stronger than heroin, so when they think they are taking heroin they get too much. It's like drinking straight grain alcohol vs a wine spritzer - both are booze, but oz per oz one is way stronger. The amount they take of heroin to get high is enough to kill them several times over if it is actually fentanyl. 

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4 hours ago, sassenach said:

I know they said no signs of drug OD but I won't take fentanyl off the list until they official tox screen comes back clean.

Did he have any history of drug use? I don't know anything about his personal life but am curious why you would think that unless he was known to use/abuse drugs. 

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8 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

Did he have any history of drug use? I don't know anything about his personal life but am curious why you would think that unless he was known to use/abuse drugs. 

Same. I mean, heroin isn't a normal first choice for a weekend splurge if not a normal drug user! I've known of people who normally are not regular users to smoke some pot or even cocaine on say, a vacation, and there is plenty of cocoain to go around in Orlando, but he was here for work. Unless known to have issues, I'd lean towards a hereditary problem given his sisters died young. 

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12 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

Did he have any history of drug use? I don't know anything about his personal life but am curious why you would think that unless he was known to use/abuse drugs. 

Yes. He spoke candidly and wrote pretty freely about it in his autobiography.

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Same. I mean, heroin isn't a normal first choice for a weekend splurge if not a normal drug user! I've known of people who normally are not regular users to smoke some pot or even cocaine on say, a vacation, and there is plenty of cocoain to go around in Orlando, but he was here for work. Unless known to have issues, I'd lean towards a hereditary problem given his sisters died young. 

I'm a little confused about the leap to heroin? Maybe this isn't common knowledge, but the reason there has been a rash of fentanyl overdoses is because many street drugs, including black market prescription drugs and other "safe" drugs like pot and psychedelics, are being laced with fentanyl. Why? I have no idea. I'm not sure how it benefits the dealers, but it's definitely happening. 

Maybe it's more known to me because I'm in the medical field in the Bay Area? 

 

 

I could be absolutely wrong about it in this case, but any time a recovered addict dies suddenly, overdose is my first thought. And recently anytime anyone dies of an OD I jump to fentanyl being the cause, no matter which drug they thought they were taking. Sign of the times, I guess.

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5 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Yes. He spoke candidly and wrote pretty freely about it in his autobiography.

I'm a little confused about the leap to heroin? Maybe this isn't common knowledge, but the reason there has been a rash of fentanyl overdoses is because many street drugs, including black market prescription drugs and other "safe" drugs like pot and psychedelics, are being laced with fentanyl. Why? I have no idea. I'm not sure how it benefits the dealers, but it's definitely happening. 

Maybe it's more known to me because I'm in the medical field in the Bay Area? 

 

 

I could be absolutely wrong about it in this case, but any time a recovered addict dies suddenly, overdose is my first thought. And recently anytime anyone dies of an OD I jump to fentanyl being the cause, no matter which drug they thought they were taking. Sign of the times, I guess.

AH! Ok, I both didn't know he had a history of use, and didn't know that fentanyl was now in many other drugs - in my mind it was mostly just used to cut heroin. That's actually freaking terrifying. I suspect my oldest may have at times dabbled in pot, nothing at home, and he's almost always home so couldn't be much, but he at least knows people who do. I will warn him, and tell him to encourage the people he knows to get a medical marijuana card if they can, assuming that the dispensary places would be a safer option to buy from, versus street drugs? He and I have had discussions about the dangers of street drugs/pills, but more regarding pills. I had no idea pot could be laced with it. Ugh. I'm so out of the loop. 

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18 hours ago, sassenach said:

No, his other sister. She died in her mid-30's.

Fentanyl is a perfectly fine drug in the hands of me.dical professionals, which is massively different than the rash of accidental overdoses due to fentanyl being laced in multiple other drugs. It ma

Yes, of course,  I am only getting it when I have aneasthesia monitored by physicians.  But I was referring to the whole overblown opioid hysteria-like getting it on you skin isn't going to kill you.  Taking unknown amounts of unknown drugs is a sure way to risk death- I agree with that completely. 

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2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

AH! Ok, I both didn't know he had a history of use, and didn't know that fentanyl was now in many other drugs - in my mind it was mostly just used to cut heroin. That's actually freaking terrifying. I suspect my oldest may have at times dabbled in pot, nothing at home, and he's almost always home so couldn't be much, but he at least knows people who do. I will warn him, and tell him to encourage the people he knows to get a medical marijuana card if they can, assuming that the dispensary places would be a safer option to buy from, versus street drugs? He and I have had discussions about the dangers of street drugs/pills, but more regarding pills. I had no idea pot could be laced with it. Ugh. I'm so out of the loop. 

They aren't just laced with fentanyl---but other very strong synthetic drugs.   I think the reason this happens is because the drug dealer who is making the mixture has no idea of what proportions of drugs he is mixing--that refers to the pills.  As to pot being laced with other drugs--it used to be laced with PCP at times-Rodney King comes to mind- but of course jhe wasn't the only one who indulged in that or got tricked into that.  I am very happy that that drug combo has seemed to have disappeared.

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1 hour ago, Kassia said:

Cause of death was a brain bleed from head trauma.  Apparently he hit his head and went to sleep.  Probably never woke up.  So sad.  😞

 

https://pagesix.com/2022/02/09/bob-saget-reportedly-died-of-brain-bleed-after-hitting-head/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

So strange. I read that they think he might have hit his head on the headboard.

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Head injuries can be so weird. My grandfather hit his head once and thought nothing of it. A few days later we thought he had a stroke and called an ambulance because he couldn’t walk. It was a brain bleed from the injury and fortunately he was ok after surgery, but so scary. I couldn’t believe it took days to cause issues. My own Dh knocked his head good once and I insisted on the ER. They took it very seriously and ran tests. Thankfully Dh was fine. 

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15 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Head injuries can be so weird. My grandfather hit his head once and thought nothing of it. A few days later we thought he had a stroke and called an ambulance because he couldn’t walk. It was a brain bleed from the injury and fortunately he was ok after surgery, but so scary. I couldn’t believe it took days to cause issues. My own Dh knocked his head good once and I insisted on the ER. They took it very seriously and ran tests. Thankfully Dh was fine. 

Very weird.  I hit my head hard on a kitchen cabinet over a month ago and am still having symptoms.  Even though it hurt a lot when it happened, I never thought it would affect me so much - people hit their heads all the time!  My doctor said it could be weeks or months before the symptoms go away.  

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1 hour ago, Kassia said:

Very weird.  I hit my head hard on a kitchen cabinet over a month ago and am still having symptoms.  Even though it hurt a lot when it happened, I never thought it would affect me so much - people hit their heads all the time!  My doctor said it could be weeks or months before the symptoms go away.  

How are you doing?  I am sad to hear it is still affecting you.   Your story really made me think though.  I never really thought about hitting your head in that way to go and get checked out or it could cause problems.  I have hit my head a few times on kitchen cabinets.  I even hit my head on a metal door (which cut my head open) and ran into a stop sign pole as a kid.   None of those did I think to watch symptoms or get checked out.  Even though with the gash on my head I had to go to the ER to get stiches.  I will be a lot more thoughtful going forward when any of us have any sort of head injury.

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