Omicron anecdata?

[Corraleno]

I was thrilled to see that the big medical center near me has big signs taped on every door saying masks are required at all times in all spaces. Compliance was 100% as far as I could tell.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

I agree. I have been reading that some healthcare workers feel really strongly that masking should now be a universal precaution in the way the gloving up and washing hands are universal precautions. We beefed up a ton of that for AIDS. We can do it again. A lot of the people who feel this way are expressing dismay that we've likely been underestimating how often HCWs have been making people sick in the past. It reminds me of the agitation to get ties, etc. out of  patient care because they harbor germs.

One side question...how often do people in the UK get a private room? They are very common in the US, and that might make a difference in their numbers even if everything else is comparable.

I was just at my doctor's for my yearly-ish checkup, and not only are the doctors/other hc workers still universally masking, all people who enter the building are required to as well, with one of their (surgical) masks (they let you wear theirs over what you're already wearing, which I think is a bit cray if you're wearing a n95+, but I can see how it's easier to be consistent that way).

Anyway, I just mentioned to my doctor that I appreciated that they were still doing this, and she said she figures that this is the new normal forever, and I told her what you all have shared here about other places, and she was *gobsmacked*.  It makes no sense not to be extra careful in a medical setting where there is such a high frequency of both sick (in a contagious way) people and immunologically vulnerable people.  

[KSera]

Another reminder that part of our problem is people don’t have a handle on numbers or statistics. This has been a problem from the start (the whole, “it has a 99% survival rate!” thing):

 

 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

One side question...how often do people in the UK get a private room? They are very common in the US, and that might make a difference in their numbers even if everything else is comparable.

DS was born at one of the top maternity hospitals in the UK and there was only 1 private room, which was reserved for patients with serious medical issues (I had a c-section and was told that wasn't serious enough to warrant a private room). The main ward had 3 "bays" with the nurses station at the center, and each bay had 8 beds in it, with just curtains around each bed. When my MIL had a stroke, she was in an open ward with I think 6 people in each bay, just with curtains. 

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

DS was born at one of the top maternity hospitals in the UK and there was only 1 private room, which was reserved for patients with serious medical issues (I had a c-section and was told that wasn't serious enough to warrant a private room). The main ward had 3 "bays" with the nurses station at the center, and each bay had 8 beds in it, with just curtains around each bed. When my MIL had a stroke, she was in an open ward with I think 6 people in each bay, just with curtains. 

I knew private rooms were not so common in the UK, but wow. That’s hard to imagine. By the time I had my last couple kids, even the labor triage area had separate rooms for each person. I especially can’t imagine laboring in a space with other patients and their families present. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

I knew private rooms were not so common in the UK, but wow. That’s hard to imagine. By the time I had my last couple kids, even the labor triage area had separate rooms for each person. I especially can’t imagine laboring in a space with other patients and their families present. 

The nurses were apologetic that my baby didn’t have a private room in the NICU!  Uh, I want you to be able to see her at all times?  No walls needed!  

(I guess with private rooms a parent is able to sort of move in full time, which wasn’t an option for us with a toddler at home.  But apparently all new NICUs are built this way?)

[Corraleno]

15 minutes ago, KSera said:

I knew private rooms were not so common in the UK, but wow. That’s hard to imagine. By the time I had my last couple kids, even the labor triage area had separate rooms for each person. I especially can’t imagine laboring in a space with other patients and their families present. 

The delivery room was private (thank goodness!). But after delivery we went to the open ward, where it was impossible to sleep because you could hear babies crying and people talking at all hours. I was the only mother in my 8-person bay who kept my baby with me, everyone else sent them to the nursery. I just went without sleep for 4 days and nursed DS around the clock to keep him quiet. On the up side, the total cost to me for 5 days in the hospital including a c-section was $0.

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

I can’t remember if it was this thread or a different one where we were discussing hospital acquired Covid. The numbers coming out of the UK are shockingly high. I’m sure it’s happening in the US as well, though, I believe there are more places in the US where masks are still being worn in hospitals. Seems like malpractice right now for healthcare workers or other hospital personnel to be near vulnerable patients without being masked up.

 

 

It may be higher in the UK. One in fifty people in the population have Covid at present, and most accommodation is in shared wards. I don't know what the hospital testing regime is .

Edited October 7, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Corraleno]

35 minutes ago, KSera said:

Another reminder that part of our problem is people don’t have a handle on numbers or statistics. This has been a problem from the start (the whole, “it has a 99% survival rate!” thing):

 

 

Considering that (1) rates of long covid are higher in women, whose symptoms are often downplayed or dismissed by doctors anyway, and (2) many of the symptoms are subjective/hard to measure (fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, depression) and therefore easy for doctors, insurance companies, and employers to dismiss, it doesn't surprise me at all that the Powers That Be are downplaying the extent and severity of the problem.

Why should politicians hurt their reelection chances by calling for continued mitigation measures, why should corporations hurt their bottom line by acknowledging long covid as a disability that might require accommodations, why should insurance companies reduce their profits by acknowledging a condition that may require extensive treatment, when it's so much easier to ignore it and just tell patients that the symptoms are all in their head and to suck it up and get back to work? As women, we're already used to that.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Considering that (1) rates of long covid are higher in women, whose symptoms are often downplayed or dismissed by doctors anyway, and (2) many of the symptoms are subjective/hard to measure (fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, depression) and therefore easy for doctors, insurance companies, and employers to dismiss, it doesn't surprise me at all that the Powers That Be are downplaying the extent and severity of the problem.

Why should politicians hurt their reelection chances by calling for continued mitigation measures, why should corporations hurt their bottom line by acknowledging long covid as a disability that might require accommodations, why should insurance companies reduce their profits by acknowledging a condition that may require extensive treatment, when it's so much easier to ignore it and just tell patients that the symptoms are all in their head and to suck it up and get back to work? As women, we're already used to that.

What they can’t downplay is the impact on the labour market. Business knows if government doesn’t. They may be trying to downplay it, source staff from overseas etc etc but everywhere is short staffed now.

[SHP]

And it happened. My husband was exposed Sunday at work. Due to my blood pressure fun he took off Monday and part of Tuesday so he had very little contact with them.

My husband always masks, except when eating, and thankfully, didn't eat around that person during that time. He is only one still masking. Currently everyone in the department who has worked with, or spent any time with, the first infected person is out with covid. Of those out, half are not vaccinated and the other half are high risk due to health issues and/or age.

Today my husband recieved multiple panicked phone calls to confirm he was negative and asking him if he had any symptoms. They asked him to take two at home tests and go to CVS to be tested as well. So far all home tests are negative, still waiting for results from CVS. 

The most insane part of all of this is that within minutes of the second phone call from management, he recieved a department wide email reminding everyone about the pizza party on Monday. I will leave the commentary that followed questioning the competency and sanity of management to your imagination. Someone must have finally pointed it out to them because after an hour they decided to cancel the pizza party. 🙄

 

I predicted this situation would happen the second they dropped mask requirements. We have kind of prepared for it. We bought ready to eat meals and he has a couple changes of clothes at work and a cot to nap. His field is critical infrastructure that is manned 24/7. There are now only 2 people to run that entire department and if his test comes back positive or if the other person ends up positive...

[KSera]

11 minutes ago, SHP said:

And it happened. My husband was exposed Sunday at work. Due to my blood pressure fun he took off Monday and part of Tuesday so he had very little contact with them.

My husband always masks, except when eating, and thankfully, didn't eat around that person during that time. He is only one still masking. Currently everyone in the department who has worked with, or spent any time with, the first infected person is out with covid. Of those out, half are not vaccinated and the other half are high risk due to health issues and/or age.

Today my husband recieved multiple panicked phone calls to confirm he was negative and asking him if he had any symptoms. They asked him to take two at home tests and go to CVS to be tested as well. So far all home tests are negative, still waiting for results from CVS. 

The most insane part of all of this is that within minutes of the second phone call from management, he recieved a department wide email reminding everyone about the pizza party on Monday. I will leave the commentary that followed questioning the competency and sanity of management to your imagination. Someone must have finally pointed it out to them because after an hour they decided to cancel the pizza party. 🙄

 

I predicted this situation would happen the second they dropped mask requirements. We have kind of prepared for it. We bought ready to eat meals and he has a couple changes of clothes at work and a cot to nap. His field is critical infrastructure that is manned 24/7. There are now only 2 people to run that entire department and if his test comes back positive or if the other person ends up positive...

I hope your dh stays negative! If the person wasn’t symptomatic yet Sunday, your dh has a good chance of escaping this 🤞. Currently a minority of people are contagious before symptoms, and contagiousness is at peak days 3-4.  

[kokotg]

17 minutes ago, SHP said:

And it happened. My husband was exposed Sunday at work. Due to my blood pressure fun he took off Monday and part of Tuesday so he had very little contact with them.

My husband always masks, except when eating, and thankfully, didn't eat around that person during that time. He is only one still masking. Currently everyone in the department who has worked with, or spent any time with, the first infected person is out with covid. Of those out, half are not vaccinated and the other half are high risk due to health issues and/or age.

 

Fingers crossed! FWIW, my husband has been one of the few people at his school masking for many months now, has had many, many close contact notifications, and has yet to get covid. good masks work! 

[Ting Tang]

Nothing to see here folks…. Nope. Ok, that’s how I feel. With nobody masking, keeping them on my kids is hard. 😔 they grumble… our reported numbers are low now in my state of IL, but we are still losing 1-2 a week in our county. And people make laughing reactions on the articles . 

[SHP]

My husband is positive. He is at work. His relief now has no relief.

I am absolutely pissed. The ONLY time he removed his mask was to eat. What was he supposed to do? Not eat? 

 

Anti vaxxers, anti maskers, covid deniers, and corporate protection from any liability for not requiring masks and vaccines are the reason my husband is positive. I will probably end up positive as will the rest of the household.

[SHP]

I don't remove my mask to even drink at work. I am part time but use the space after students are gone. I sometimes go 8 hours without a drink. Only once have I had to stop and go get food, which I ate alone and outside.

[Acadie]

22 minutes ago, SHP said:

My husband is positive. He is at work. His relief now has no relief.

I am absolutely pissed. The ONLY time he removed his mask was to eat. What was he supposed to do? Not eat? 

 

Anti vaxxers, anti maskers, covid deniers, and corporate protection from any liability for not requiring masks and vaccines are the reason my husband is positive. I will probably end up positive as will the rest of the household.

I'm so sorry. And I'm also furious at our recklessness and ignorance and all the harm it's causing. 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry too.  It's so frustrating.  😞 

[Harriet Vane]

I feel your pain. It's a constant struggle. I'm so sorry this is impacting your family.

[Spryte]

I’m so sorry. Hoping it ends up being quick for him, and mild, and that no one else catches it.

 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

My husband is positive. He is at work. His relief now has no relief.

I am absolutely pissed. The ONLY time he removed his mask was to eat. What was he supposed to do? Not eat? 

 

Anti vaxxers, anti maskers, covid deniers, and corporate protection from any liability for not requiring masks and vaccines are the reason my husband is positive. I will probably end up positive as will the rest of the household.

I hope he feels better soon and that the household can avoid it, although I understand that is incredibly difficult.

My daughter's teacher has tested positive twice since May.  They aren't MAGA anti-anything.  They are quite the opposite, but after the 10 day quarantine, she came unmasked.  I know they say many are not contagious at that point in time.  I am a masker, too, though we went out to eat yesterday with my son's TKD group. I didn't really want to, but it was for my son.  I didn't want him to feel left out.  That is his only socialization.  There was coughing from the group.  If it is any consolation, the times her teacher has tested positive (and she is in her 60s), it has been quick and she seems fine in a short moment of time.  I know long Covid is a concern, and it is horrible.  I just hope for most people they can recover quickly and move on in life.  I really hate how luck seems to play a role.  I really hoped these vaccines could help prevent, but I haven't read much about the new booster in way of prevention.

[Ting Tang]

42 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I'm so sorry. And I'm also furious at our recklessness and ignorance and all the harm it's causing. 

Sometimes it feels like everyone has given up.  I rarely hear about anything being fast tracked that could help prevent Covid.  There must be something out there?  Nasal sprays?  

[catz]

SHP, I'm so sorry!  

My daughter is just over covid (she is at day 3 after her negative test) and my husband and I didn't get it.  We stuck her in isolation once we knew of exposure and symptoms were just starting.  Anyway, I won't drone on and on but there is hope that maybe it won't spread.  It was really a cold for her, she was bouncing off the walls before her isolation was over, kept up with her school work throughout, and has been back at her normal activities.  I hope he recovers very quickly!  ❤️  

[mommyoffive]

2 hours ago, SHP said:

My husband is positive. He is at work. His relief now has no relief.

I am absolutely pissed. The ONLY time he removed his mask was to eat. What was he supposed to do? Not eat? 

 

Anti vaxxers, anti maskers, covid deniers, and corporate protection from any liability for not requiring masks and vaccines are the reason my husband is positive. I will probably end up positive as will the rest of the household.

OH no, I am so sorry.  How is he feeling?  I hope he isn't that sick since he has to work. 

IT is so upsetting when you are doing everything you can possibly do to protect yourself.  I am sending good thoughts your way and hope his sickness and is mild and you can escape it. 

 

[wathe]

5 hours ago, SHP said:

My husband is positive. He is at work. His relief now has no relief.

I am absolutely pissed. The ONLY time he removed his mask was to eat. What was he supposed to do? Not eat? 

 

Anti vaxxers, anti maskers, covid deniers, and corporate protection from any liability for not requiring masks and vaccines are the reason my husband is positive. I will probably end up positive as will the rest of the household.

I'm sorry.  It's crummy.  I'm angry for you.

I tried not eating or drinking at work.  I lasted almost a year.  I finally gave up - I felt physically unwell by the end of shifts.

My kid has a new cough, and DH a new sore throat since last night.  PCR's are pending. They do everything they possibly can to protect themselves - never unmasked in indoor spaces outside our home, and masked at home when people we don't live with are present.  They wear well-fitted n95, and they wear them properly and consistently.  Valiantly resisting peer pressure.  But kid started high-school this year, and it's a cesspool with inadequate ventilation (ETA and near-zero masking)

I'm pretty mad at my entire province right now.   Such a massive public health failure .

Edited October 9, 2022 by wathe

[BeachGal]

11 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Sometimes it feels like everyone has given up.  I rarely hear about anything being fast tracked that could help prevent Covid.  There must be something out there?  Nasal sprays?  

Operation Warp Speed is over so we won’t be seeing anything fast tracked anymore especially since the mrna vaccines are working well enough if they're tweaked.

Thailand has its Covitrap nasal spray which contains antibodies. It came out recently but we won’t likely see it here in the US.

Israel has a nitric oxide-inducing nasal spray  but it’s also not sold here in the US. Some people here on wtm have bought it online, though.

For about six months, we have been using Xlear with xylitol and grapefruit seed extract before and after possible exposure. We eat out a few times per week, shop in stores and live in a multi-unit building (no to little masking) where we share common areas with other people. It seems to be working for us so far. I buy it from Target for about $13 per bottle.

I am also going to make my own iota carrageenan nasal spray since it cannot be bought easily in the US. Canada sells the Betadine brand of iota carrageenan nasal spray but they can’t ship it here legally. Ebay and Amazon might be selling knock offs so they’re no good, imo.

It’s easy to make iota carrageenan nasal spray though. Everything can be bought online and directions are on YouTube. It’s just

• 0.34 grams of 100% iota carrageenan powder (not kappa and no other ingredients)
• 200 ml of saline solution

Heat saline solution to 176 degrees for a few minutes, ideally in a very clean double boiler. Remove from heat and immediately add iota carrageenan, stirring well. Fill sterilized nasal spray bottles. Make only what you will immediately begin using.

Quercetin phytosome made by Thorne is also something we all take when area Covid infections are higher. Quercetin is similar to a promising drug that is in the process of being developed.

The bivalents are of course good, too. I just got the Pfizer bivalent which is my first booster.

[mommyoffive]

How the splintering of Omicron could shape Covid's next phase - STAT (statnews.com)

[Mom_to3]

Disappointing results for a version of the nasal vaccine. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/11/nasal-covid-vaccine-poor-results-oxford-astrazeneca-trial

[Mom_to3]

The company of at home caretakers (provided by social services in my European home country) for my 80 and 90 year old parents has a major covid outbreak. I finally managed to convince my mother to get the updated booster 10 days ago, but my father last received a booster around New Years. Wondering if this will be it. And for those that say covid is over - nobody showed up this morning, and nobody even called them. My parents heard about the covid outbreak during the afternoon visit. 

[Starr]

I have a 70 year old dear friend with covid and preexisting health issues. He's had all the vaccinations and boosters. He's on a respirator, blood clots in his lungs, pneumonia and heart is failing. He coded last night and they zapped him back. 😞. It's not over.

[mommyoffive]

7 minutes ago, Starr said:

I have a 70 year old dear friend with covid and preexisting health issues. He's had all the vaccinations and boosters. He's on a respirator, blood clots in his lungs, pneumonia and heart is failing. He coded last night and they zapped him back. 😞. It's not over.

I am so sorry.  Sending prayers his way.

[Kassia]

@Starrhow awful.  I'm sorry.

[desertflower]

Sending hugs Starr.

[Mom_to3]

This is so awful, Starr!! I don't understand why we wouldn't be wearing masks to protect people like your friend. And even worse, I can't believe our government is actually encouraging the "individual public health" message, that everyone is responsible (only) for protecting their own health. Clearly it's not working.

[kbutton]

Free educational resource about science literacy/communication using Covid as a model.

https://qubeshub.org/publications/3467/about/1

Quote

Summary:
The ability to integrate process of science training with necessary skills in applying and communicating core theories in biological science and biology quantification, has been brought into focus by the COVID-19 pandemic. Students from high school up through graduate school, have made it clear that they do not comprehend how science is done, why it is done, and how to assess and communicate scientific claims. While the overwhelming 'noise' coming out of the pandemic may seem daunting, it also presents us with an opportunity to develop open educational resources that help learners improve their biological science and quantification skills, as well as their ability to sort through claims and communicate findings. To those ends, we developed a series of linked, OER learning modules, applicable from the high school and community education through the graduate and professional school levels, addressing microbiology, physiology, pharmacology, genetics, and proteomics through the lens of SARS-CoV-2. Students learn about the process of science, appropriate to their educational level, how scientists assess claims, and how to communicate findings.

 

[mommyoffive]

FDA authorizes updated COVID-19 boosters for kids as young as 5 (wisn.com)

[wathe]

22 hours ago, kbutton said:

Free educational resource about science literacy/communication using Covid as a model.

https://qubeshub.org/publications/3467/about/1

 

Oooh, this looks very good!

[mommyoffive]

CDC Expands Updated COVID-19 Vaccines to Include Children Ages 5 Through 11 | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

 

This follows the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) authorization of updated COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech for children ages 5 through 11 years, and from Moderna for children and adolescents ages 6 through 17 years.

Edited October 13, 2022 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

[mommyoffive]

[mommyoffive]

Biden administration extends COVID public health emergency (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

The next U.S. COVID wave is coming. Why it will be 'much weirder than before.' (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

First human results show new COVID-19 booster is safe and triggers an appropriate immune response (msn.com)

Pfizer Says Booster Lifts Antibodies for Omicron Variants (msn.com)

 

Pfizer's New Omicron-Targeting Booster Produces Strong Immune Response (msn.com)

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by mommyoffive

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Can someone translate this. 89 percent of what???  I don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Can someone translate this. 89 percent of what???  I don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean.

89% of people who have Covid will turn a positive on one of these home tests when it is taken 96 hours after their PCR turns positive (only 34% 24 hours after) 

[SHP]

Timeline question 

My husband was exposed the 5th tested positive on the 9th in the morning. The last time I was unmasked around him would have been before 2am on the 9th.

How long until I am in clear?

[mommyoffive]

Fall boosters, myocarditis, and benefits/risks for young people (substack.com)

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer New HCP FS for bivalent booster doses for 5 through 11 year olds (orange) 10122022 (fda.gov)

 

Moderna HCP FS for bivalent booster for 6 years and older (Gray Label) 10122022 (fda.gov)

[KSera]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

Timeline question 

My husband was exposed the 5th tested positive on the 9th in the morning. The last time I was unmasked around him would have been before 2am on the 9th.

How long until I am in clear?

If you hadn’t been around him at all, I would say if you get a negative PCR today (5 days after the 9th), you’re in the clear. If you’re trying to be certain you don’t have it before being around others though, I would be waiting until a negative test five days after his last positive test (is he still testing positive), since you run some risk of catching it if your mask isn’t perfectly sealed. What kind of mask have you worn around him and is he masked as well?

[SHP]

17 minutes ago, KSera said:

If you hadn’t been around him at all, I would say if you get a negative PCR today (5 days after the 9th), you’re in the clear. If you’re trying to be certain you don’t have it before being around others though, I would be waiting until a negative test five days after his last positive test (is he still testing positive), since you run some risk of catching it if your mask isn’t perfectly sealed. What kind of mask have you worn around him and is he masked as well?

We both wear N95's. He is in a part of the house with seperate ventilation and take it off there and outside. I only take my mask off in our room.