nm

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Thank you for the replies. 

Whether this is real or not (I'm thinking about calling the school office and inquiring), the fact that students in elementary school are aware of it and asking questions makes me sad. 
 

Wait - so this is not a real thing (if it was, there would be proof). But you are sad about it still? I guess I'd be annoyed at people starting stupid rumors - but I mean, seems weird to be upset about a thing that isn't actually a thing. 

[Drama Llama]

I find the power behind right wing media and social media terrifying.  

Gun violence in schools has become such a common occurrence that some people are actually adding kitty litter toilets and stop the bleed kits and other things in classrooms, and yet these people have come up with another narrative involving kitty litter in school that was able to shift the topic so that instead of people talking about threats to children, we are talking about children dressing up in costumes as if the children are the threat.  

[Spryte]

24 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

I would love to have a conversation about this, and how to talk to kids.  We have always homeschooled and have not allowed our children to use social media.  Our teenagers have full access to their phones and chromebooks, but they aren't in circles where issues like furries and school shootings and deviant p*rn are discussed. I know my oldest has a few chats with a few friends who aren't homeschooled, so she does have that exposure.  Mostly, I think they complain about homework and talk about their shared interests.  In general, I have always made an effort to keep my kids aware of what their public school peers are doing, but with the pandemic and then moving, I'm out of touch.  

So, then I read things like this.  If it is the norm in some groups for kids to have multiple personalities, or detailed fantasies (be it sexual or just dress-up), and they are on their phones or video games all the time, and so so many of them are so dark and depressed, then how do I help my kids integrate with that? Why should/would I?  

What is teen culture these days?  Because it seems like it is just incredibly unhealthy.  

The books that Ksera mentioned are very good as jumping off points for discussion.

”furries and school shootings and p*rn” … gently … really? I posted a lot about furries (I am not one, but understand that there are huge family friendly conventions), and still furries on this thread get lumped in with *school shootings* and porn? Why? Why is someone dressing up a cartoon animal character that they like as threatening as a school shooting or porn, but dressing up as a villain from a Marvel/DC movie is not threatening? I feel like I’m missing something here. “Furry” is not a code word for something vile or anything even comparable to school shootings or porn. I don’t doubt that some humans have fetishized it, just like they have done with every other fandom. 

 

[thewellerman]

4 minutes ago, Spryte said:

The books that Ksera mentioned are very good as jumping off points for discussion.

”furries and school shootings and p*rn” … gently … really? I posted a lot about furries (I am not one, but understand that there are huge family friendly conventions), and still furries on this thread get lumped in with *school shootings* and porn? Why? Why is someone dressing up a cartoon animal character that they like as threatening as a school shooting or porn, but dressing up as a villain from a Marvel/DC movie is not threatening? I feel like I’m missing something here. “Furry” is not a code word for something vile or anything even comparable to school shootings or porn. I don’t doubt that some humans have fetishized it, just like they have done with every other fandom. 

 

I did make a new thread like a pp suggested.  

I said furries, but what I was thinking was the part about teens walking each other on leashes and etc that was mentioned earlier in this thread.  I should not have lumped those together.  Sorry. 

[QueenCat]

20 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, you go into the search thinking, "Ooh! Furry things! This will be cute!"

No. Not cute. Just very, very weird and disturbing. You will want to unsee it, but you won't be able to.

I would have to agree with you. I'm pretty liberal and find this disturbing as a way people identify themselves.

[Melissa in Australia]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Ok but are you saying Aussie parents don’t have to inform their kids of stuff they would rather no in every generation? I can appreciate that US has a psychotic gun culture that does not exist in many/any other countries. But I expect the larger point is still true - that every generation has to teach kids about things they would rather not. 

That was why I said wrong ish

 

i don’t think I had to teach my children anything I would rather not.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

48 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Wait - so this is not a real thing (if it was, there would be proof). But you are sad about it still? I guess I'd be annoyed at people starting stupid rumors - but I mean, seems weird to be upset about a thing that isn't actually a thing. 

nm

Edited December 17, 2021 by Granny_Weatherwax

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

You are not understanding me. I am sad that I had to have a conversation with a 10 yo about litter boxes in restrooms and children identifying as furries. It is not something I expected. I wouldn't have expected to have that conversation whether or not this situation is real, fantasized, a horrible rumor, or a dreamscape. That is what makes me sad.

In this instance, there is evidence that, yes, there is a littler box. It's in one bathroom in one school for one student. The rumors were a bit dramatic as rumors usually are.

I am not upset about the dratted litter boxes. I am upset that a 10yo was concerned about it and asking questions about toileting for other kids her age and being exposed to someone using a litter box in the same restrooms she uses. I think I am allowed to be saddened by that.

Is your child in the school with the litter box?  I am confused because you haven't made it sound that way up until this point, but now you are saying it's in the same restroom that she uses.  

[Granny_Weatherwax]

nm

Edited December 17, 2021 by Granny_Weatherwax

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Thank you once again for your replies.

This thread has taken multiple turns that are not helpful to me.  I should have written JAWM and been done with it. At this point, nothing productive is coming out of this conversation. 

I am allowed to be sad by conversations I hadn't expected to have with a 10yo. I am allowed to be concerned about events that took place this week.

Please do not try to negate my experiences and feelings just because you cannot verify the events.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

11 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Is your child in the school with the litter box?  I am confused because you haven't made it sound that way up until this point, but now you are saying it's in the same restroom that she uses.  

Where do you read that? I said she was asking questions about seeing someone use a litter box and being exposed to it not that she had been exposed. 

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Where do you read that? I said she was asking questions about seeing someone use a litter box and being exposed to it not that she had been exposed. 

That's still just a rumor though. At this point it seems unlikely any of this exists, and the only conversation I'd have with my kid is "that's a silly rumor, of course people are not asking for litterboxes to use! Go play."

[Shoeless]

You never said until now that this was a thing your child had actually witnessed. The first page or two has you saying you were waiting for communication from the school and hoping it was just a weird rumor. And you can't find any info on the news about it. 

Even now, I still can't tell whether your child really saw someone relieve themselves in a litterbox or if there happens to be a litterbox in the same restroom she uses. Or if she just heard some kids talking that there was a litterbox in the school somewhere. 

When I was in school, the janitors used kitty litter to clean up vomit. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some doofus started a rumor based on seeing kitty litter around after a kid vomited. 

[MEmama]

22 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Thank you once again for your replies.

This thread has taken multiple turns that are not helpful to me.  I should have written JAWM and been done with it. At this point, nothing productive is coming out of this conversation. 

I am allowed to be sad by conversations I hadn't expected to have with a 10yo. I am allowed to be concerned about events that took place this week.

Please do not try to negate my experiences and feelings just because you cannot verify the events.

((Hugs))

My first experience with that kind of sadness was when DS was 5. We had moved to a province where smoking was very common, and he asked me why so many people “used smokers” (his word for cigarettes). The conversation was so…unexpected…and he seemed so little for it. 
 

Parenting is hard! 😞 I’m truly sorry you are having a rough week.

[Drama Llama]

43 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Where do you read that? I said she was asking questions about seeing someone use a litter box and being exposed to it not that she had been exposed. 

I'm sorry, I know I'm really bad at understanding what people say on the internet.  

But I can't read this:

" I am upset that a 10yo was concerned about it and asking questions about toileting for other kids her age and being exposed to someone using a litter box in the same restrooms she uses. "  

as meaning anything other than "my kid is being exposed to someone using a litter box in the same restrooms she uses and is now asking questions about it".  

Can you clarify what you meant to say?  

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

I think the lines between mental illness and social media fads have gotten pretty blurry for young people in some arenas. If it’s something that kids are doing because it’s normalized in their social media world, is it mental illness? A prime example is the current multiple identity fad in young people. There are scads of teens and young adults now who have developed multiple identities that they are absolutely convinced are real, completely separate people sharing their bodies. They switch between these identities and have different names and often pronouns for each. They may dress differently on different days depending who is “fronting” that day. They want their identities acknowledged and identify as a “system”. In other contexts, this is clearly not a normal belief, but it is so normalized in their online communities that it’s hard to know if it meets the definition of “mental illness”. 

You can say that again. 

Same with pseudo tics. 

[thewellerman]

12 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I'm sorry, I know I'm really bad at understanding what people say on the internet.  

But I can't read this:

" I am upset that a 10yo was concerned about it and asking questions about toileting for other kids her age and being exposed to someone using a litter box in the same restrooms she uses. "  

as meaning anything other than "my kid is being exposed to someone using a litter box in the same restrooms she uses and is now asking questions about it".  

Can you clarify what you meant to say?  

I read it as the child was concerned about what to do if she found herself in that situation, and was trying to understand what the rumor meant. 

[Melissa Louise]

56 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Thank you once again for your replies.

This thread has taken multiple turns that are not helpful to me.  I should have written JAWM and been done with it. At this point, nothing productive is coming out of this conversation. 

I am allowed to be sad by conversations I hadn't expected to have with a 10yo. I am allowed to be concerned about events that took place this week.

Please do not try to negate my experiences and feelings just because you cannot verify the events.

Yes, it's tough to have to explain things like furries (however the concept arises) to a ten year old. It's an intrusion of the adult world into the child world. You're right; dealing with pre-puberty discussions should be the limit of awkward. 

Homeschooling let us stretch the 'innocent' age a little. At ten, my children were still focused on childish things - Lego, beloved books, paper dolls, circus play in the backyard. 

I'm not sure it made that much difference long term. 

 

 

 

 

 

[WildflowerMom]

7 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

I read it as the child was concerned about what to do if she found herself in that situation, and was trying to understand what the rumor meant. 

That's how I read it, as well.   And I'm sure that 10yo has been hearing all kinds of crazy stuff at school this week, between so-and-so says that we're getting litter boxes (rumor or not) to Friday some people are bringing guns (rumor or not).  At 10, this is all weird and disturbing.   Hell, some of it is weird and disturbing to me.    I don't know why so many people are having problems with a thread discussing being sad about what their 10yo is hearing.   I mean, isn't that what we do here? Discuss things?    

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, Eos said:

OK.  I was just having a convo with my kids about Neopronouns - and some people really are using words like Tree or Moon, Fae, or random things like Pom after their names in the place of or alongside she/they or other gender pronouns.  Because they "identify" as that.  

I fully agree with Tanaqui that what consensual adults do in their bedrooms is absolutely none of my business,  It's a problem for me when someone says they "identify" as an animal, a tree or a moon.  "Identity" has come to signify victimhood or survivorship and deciding I'm other-than-human and need my rights is both diminishing to actual oppressed minorities and women and simply not the truth.  And, the more that humans are willing to believe absurdities and non-truths like A Human Is A Cat or I Am A Tree the more all the lies become legitimized like The Covid Vax Is Controlling You or White Genocide.  

You know, I kinda hate the 'nobody's business what two consenting adults get up to' spiel. 

On the one hand, yes. Especially when applied to the sex of person you sleep with. 

On the other hand, no.

There is no clear line between society and sexual practices, and our current society promotes sexual practices (via ubiquitous p*rn and p*rn acceptance) that cause harm, to girls and women in particular. Anal injuries, rough sex defences in murder or manslaughter trials, so called 'breath play'-  being choked - 'consensual' practices of humiliation and physical pain. And images drawn from this seeping into advertising and video.

I think it's interesting, at least, that Eilish - an 18 year old - has talked about 'consensual' encounters she now realises were shaped in a harmful way by p"rn.

Can one truly consent to harm in the bedroom and consider that to be entirely separate from the culture?

Does your consent to harm impact on another person's ability to consent? 

I think it's worth asking those questions. In my personal life, before I was single again, I certainly audited my own practices to remove those that degraded the human, regardless of pleasure. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Wait - so this is not a real thing (if it was, there would be proof). But you are sad about it still? I guess I'd be annoyed at people starting stupid rumors - but I mean, seems weird to be upset about a thing that isn't actually a thing. 

She's sad that the rumor or trolling or whatever lead to a situation where she had to discuss furries with her kid, a topic she doesn't want to have to talk about with her kid. Because her kid is ten, and she just doesn't want to go there. She wants her ten year old to be talking about/thinking about ten year old things. 

Feelings are feelings. We don't need to argue people out of them. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, Catwoman said:

It really is a shame! It’s ridiculous that we have to be so careful of what our kids Google. And seriously, who would have thought that there could be a dark side to something like furries? Let’s just say I was shocked and leave it at that, because if I say what I thought of the kinkier search results, someone will post to say I shouldn’t judge. (I saw the images. I’m judging. Consenting adults can do whatever they want, but I’m still going to think it’s weird! 😆)

I suspect this will all turn out to be fake, too, but I can understand why @Granny_Weatherwax was concerned — when something seems to be happening in your own town, it’s hard not to worry! 

And I have been sticking with this thread because some of the posts are so much fun! I kind of hate to see this one fade away. 😁

It's always been a fetish. It just went mainstream. From adult world to teens to children. It did not start as kiddy dress up. 

Lots of defensiveness in this thread about grown adults dressing up as and IDing as animals. I mean, have we lost our minds? We all understand that this an odd thing to do, at the very least? 

[WildflowerMom]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

You know, I kinda hate the 'nobody's business what two consenting adults get up to' spiel. 

On the one hand, yes. Especially when applied to the sex of person you sleep with. 

On the other hand, no.

There is no clear line between society and sexual practices, and our current society promotes sexual practices (via ubiquitous p*rn and p*rn acceptance) that cause harm, to girls and women in particular. Anal injuries, rough sex defences in murder or manslaughter trials, so called 'breath play'-  being choked - 'consensual' practices of humiliation and physical pain. And images drawn from this seeping into advertising and video.

I think it's interesting, at least, that Eilish - an 18 year old - has talked about 'consensual' encounters she now realises were shaped in a harmful way by p"rn.

Can one truly consent to harm in the bedroom and consider that to be entirely separate from the culture?

Does your consent to harm impact on another person's ability to consent? 

I think it's worth asking those questions. In my personal life, before I was single again, I certainly audited my own practices to remove those that degraded the human, regardless of pleasure. 

Off topic somewhat, but just chatting...   rabbit trails and all that...

I understand and get all of this.   I do fall on the side of consensual, adults, legal, private?  Yes? Ok, whatever.   That said, don't bring it out into the public sphere.  It's almost always women who are put in that inferior position.  It's (mostly) women getting choked out for se*, wearing collars and leashes, being degraded.   I can't imagine my husband ever believing I'm so inferior to him that he can rough me up during se*, even if I told him, heck, begged him, too.  He's not into women being subservient anywhere, bedroom or not.  
 

It's such a huge issue in our culture--women for men's pleasure.   And of course, p*rn just helps it grow. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, WildflowerMom said:

Off topic somewhat, but just chatting...   rabbit trails and all that...

I understand and get all of this.   I do fall on the side of consensual, adults, legal, private?  Yes? Ok, whatever.   That said, don't bring it out into the public sphere.  It's almost always women who are put in that inferior position.  It's (mostly) women getting choked out for se*, wearing collars and leashes, being degraded.   I can't imagine my husband ever believing I'm so inferior to him that he can rough me up during se*, even if I told him, heck, begged him, too.  He's not into women being subservient anywhere, bedroom or not.  
 

It's such a huge issue in our culture--women for men's pleasure.   And of course, p*rn just helps it grow. 

Yep. 

I mean, in the end, all I'm comfortable with is discussion. You can't legislate what people do in privacy. I would get rid of rough sex defences, however, if I was Queen of the world. 

There was a long convo here a few years ago about people not consenting to people bringing their fetish into the public sphere. Some dude had a woman on a leash in the supermarket. It's funny ( odd) to me that we are allowed to pearl clutch about how awful it is if we have to see it, but as soon as we don't have to see it, a woman getting off on being degraded and a man getting off on doing the degrading is fine. Because 'consent'.

Germaine Greer has some interesting things to say about consent and it's limits, particularly in heterosexual relationships. 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Childhood innocence is a rather meaningless concept at my place, very much shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. I explain just about everything to dd as stuff comes up, and do a lot of preventative explaining too. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

I don't know what everyone else means by "childhood innocence" but in my family of origin it usually meant protecting children from the knowledge they need to cope with stuff, then, miraculously at 18, you were supposed to know it all but without behaving like a know it all, because you don't know anything at 18 because you're still just a kid. There was no winning in a system like that. There was just shaming or bullying for ignorance your adults cultivated in you.

Maybe I would have parented differently if "innocence" had even been possible here, but with the whole Aspie thing, I doubt it. If my life thus far taught me nothing else, it taught me that we can't protect ourselves from anything we don't understand.

 

[livetoread]

20 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

Lots of defensiveness in this thread about grown adults dressing up as and IDing as animals. I mean, have we lost our minds? We all understand that this an odd thing to do, at the very least? 

There are lots of odd things that are harmless. People are weird, and that's okay in my opinion. I was raised to be judgy about weird people, and then I decided to homeschool my kids, lol. Lots of weird kids and weird adults in our circles, and I've learned to appreciate them in all their strange glory. If an adult wants to spend hours sewing an animal costume and prance around with others, hey, have at it. No one is getting hurt and they are having fun and it sure beats many, many alternatives.

[Melissa Louise]

3 minutes ago, livetoread said:

There are lots of odd things that are harmless. People are weird, and that's okay in my opinion. I was raised to be judgy about weird people, and then I decided to homeschool my kids, lol. Lots of weird kids and weird adults in our circles, and I've learned to appreciate them in all their strange glory. If an adult wants to spend hours sewing an animal costume and prance around with others, hey, have at it. No one is getting hurt and they are having fun and it sure beats many, many alternatives.

Yeah, like I said, it's Fall of Rome time. To me, it's decadent. 

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Childhood innocence is a rather meaningless concept at my place, very much shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. I explain just about everything to dd as stuff comes up, and do a lot of preventative explaining too. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

I don't know what everyone else means by "childhood innocence" but in my family of origin it usually meant protecting children from the knowledge they need to cope with stuff, then, miraculously at 18, you were supposed to know it all but without behaving like a know it all, because you don't know anything at 18 because you're still just a kid. There was no winning in a system like that. There was just shaming or bullying for ignorance your adults cultivated in you.

Maybe I would have parented differently if "innocence" had even been possible here, but with the whole Aspie thing, I doubt it. If my life thus far taught me nothing else, it taught me that we can't protect ourselves from anything we don't understand.

 

This is also true, but it doesn't stop us having feelings about it. 

Frankly, I could have done with ditching the concept a lot earlier, but I didn't, because I wanted to protect my kids from my own experience. Bad decision. Oh well. 

But yes, I agree with you. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[Rosie_0801]

20 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is also true, but it doesn't stop us having feelings about it. 

I think we've had enough weird stuff happen here that we don't bother to have feelings about a lot of it. We're a pragmatic bunch. Unless it is triggering ptsd symptoms, we're mostly "weird stuff happens, integrate it and move on."

As dd tells me about whatever the kids at school think is weird or most of what school teachers are trying to do to shock their nice, middle class students' privilege, "Eh, that's the least of my problems."

She seems to have a pretty strong sense of self in most ways and what she thinks is or isn't for her. And, coz I'm old, I sometimes say "Yeah, at your age, but when you are older you might think differently, so don't be too surprised if that happens."

None of which removes our or anyone else's right to feel. None of us are robots.

[Melissa Louise]

9 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think we've had enough weird stuff happen here that we don't bother to have feelings about a lot of it. We're a pragmatic bunch. Unless it is triggering ptsd symptoms, we're mostly "weird stuff happens, integrate it and move on."

As dd tells me about whatever the kids at school think is weird or most of what school teachers are trying to do to shock their nice, middle class students' privilege, "Eh, that's the least of my problems."

She seems to have a pretty strong sense of self in most ways and what she thinks is or isn't for her. And, coz I'm old, I sometimes say "Yeah, at your age, but when you are older you might think differently, so don't be too surprised if that happens."

None of which removes our or anyone else's right to feel. None of us are robots.

You are a good mum, Rosie. 

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Childhood innocence is a rather meaningless concept at my place, very much shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. I explain just about everything to dd as stuff comes up, and do a lot of preventative explaining too. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

I don't know what everyone else means by "childhood innocence" but in my family of origin it usually meant protecting children from the knowledge they need to cope with stuff, then, miraculously at 18, you were supposed to know it all but without behaving like a know it all, because you don't know anything at 18 because you're still just a kid. There was no winning in a system like that. There was just shaming or bullying for ignorance your adults cultivated in you.

Maybe I would have parented differently if "innocence" had even been possible here, but with the whole Aspie thing, I doubt it. If my life thus far taught me nothing else, it taught me that we can't protect ourselves from anything we don't understand.

 

QFT. I’ve never had it and don’t understand the obsession with it.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[LMD]

49 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yep. 

I mean, in the end, all I'm comfortable with is discussion. You can't legislate what people do in privacy. I would get rid of rough sex defences, however, if I was Queen of the world. 

There was a long convo here a few years ago about people not consenting to people bringing their fetish into the public sphere. Some dude had a woman on a leash in the supermarket. It's funny ( odd) to me that we are allowed to pearl clutch about how awful it is if we have to see it, but as soon as we don't have to see it, a woman getting off on being degraded and a man getting off on doing the degrading is fine. Because 'consent'.

Germaine Greer has some interesting things to say about consent and it's limits, particularly in heterosexual relationships. 

 

What I remember about that conversation was a whole lot of very disheartening defensiveness...

If general you really are naively buying the line that there's nothing sexual about furries, then I have a bridge you might like to purchase. 

I agree with you 100% re discussion vs legislation (especially for adults keeping their stuff discreet)

[Selkie]

7 minutes ago, LMD said:

If general you really are naively buying the line that there's nothing sexual about furries, then I have a bridge you might like to purchase. 

This. Several years ago, I had a discussion with a friend who owned a comic book store. Many of her customers were furries and she also knew everyone and everything involved with cons, as she had been going to them for decades.

My kids were preteens/early teens at the time, and her advice was to steer clear of the furries because there was a lot of twisted stuff that went on with them.

(There was a news story involving furries at that time, which is how the topic came up.)

[maize]

54 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

QFT. I’ve never had it and don’t understand the obsession with it.

I had an innocent childhood.

It was nice.

Like, the first nine years of my life were pretty darn idyllic, and my siblings who lived through those years with me all agree.

I'd love for every child to have that.

And I recognize it just isn't reality for many.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I had an innocent childhood.

It was nice.

Like, the first nine years of my life were pretty darn idyllic, and my siblings who lived through those years with me all agree.

I'd love for every child to have that.

And I recognize it just isn't reality for many.

Not many. Most. Childhood is not 9/10 years. I have no idea where this idea that everyone has an idyllic experience comes from except TV (radio before it) and now SM. That's not real life and never has been. Everybody has issues of one kind or another. It's a lot easier to deal when you don't feel it necessary to constantly compare yourself to that nonexistent ideal and I've never thought it healthy to make me/my kids think they'd come out of childhood entirely unscathed/untouched by disappointment and trauma of any kind.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Terabith]

I mean, my kid at age 8 or 9 was still dressing up as a cat/ dragon/ unicorn and galloping around and answering people with meows and hisses and licking her hand and running it through her hair.  It was not remotely sexual, but it was an incredibly vivid fantasy life that led into D&D character personas that she could inhabit in a socially acceptable manner.  

I don't know where the line between pretend and being a furry is, to be honest.  Her fantasy life is a big part of her identity, and it was more than a passing game of pretend.  

I genuinely don't know where lines are.  I don't want to see sexual behavior in public, and certainly using a litter box is not acceptable behavior, but I am very skeptical of that actually happening.  I don't see a problem with adults wearing costumes in public, although probably not in a workplace or professional environment.  

I don't know many furries online, but my husband was on a MOO for a long time with a bunch of them, and it seemed like they were just adults who were still playing pretend in that sphere, which seems okay.  I'm sure there are sexualized components to it, but he said he never saw any evidence of that online.  

[Melissa Louise]

In general, part of the task of adulthood is to move away from fantasy identities. Reality acceptance and all that. 

[Shoeless]

37 minutes ago, Selkie said:

This. Several years ago, I had a discussion with a friend who owned a comic book store. Many of her customers were furries and she also knew everyone and everything involved with cons, as she had been going to them for decades.

My kids were preteens/early teens at the time, and her advice was to steer clear of the furries because there was a lot of twisted stuff that went on with them.

(There was a news story involving furries at that time, which is how the topic came up.)

There's a lot of icky stuff that is part of geek and con culture, whether it's d&d, comics, furries, cosplayers, larpers, and so on.  There's good stuff, too, but you have to tread carefully to avoid the icky stuff. Having rock solid boundaries is necessary. 

I'm glad that people who are on the fringes of society have a group where they can feel at home and welcome.  Everyone likes feeling like they belong to a family unit.

I'm not glad about the casual sexism, misogyny, and dysfunction that runs rife through many of these communities.  It's better in that it's getting called out now, but you still get apologists for Jeff the Creepy DM who makes tasteless, sexual jokes at the female player's expense, or 41 year old Stinky Mike who throws a genuine tantrum because the game shop will no longer let him play due to his appalling B.O. 

[Carol in Cal.]

50 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

In general, part of the task of adulthood is to move away from fantasy identities. Reality acceptance and all that. 

Cough cough Renaissance Faire cough cough

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Cough cough Renaissance Faire cough cough

Yeah. At least there's some educational aspect to that. Plus most RF types I know are clear it's their hobby. They don't try to insist that they are literally a 14th C swordsman and their identity needs to be respected. Plus lots of them are really amazing craftspeople. 

[Terabith]

8 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yeah. At least there's some educational aspect to that. Plus most RF types I know are clear it's their hobby. They don't try to insist that they are literally a 14th C swordsman and their identity needs to be respected. Plus lots of them are really amazing craftspeople. 

Since pretty much all the adults I know in real life spend a lot of time role playing and/ or work at Ren Faires, it seems like a fine line to me, and I haven't noticed an inability for them to function in the adult world.  

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Terabith said:

Since pretty much all the adults I know in real life spend a lot of time role playing and/ or work at Ren Faires, it seems like a fine line to me, and I haven't noticed an inability for them to function in the adult world.  

Ren Faire and being a furry not the same thing 

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Ren Faire and being a furry not the same thing 

IDK.  It's all part of a fantasy life.  As long as there's no public sex acts, I don't see that it matters?  I'm not trying to be dense.  I really don't see a qualitative difference in someone who imagines being an animal versus someone who imagines being a 13th century knight.  

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

IDK.  It's all part of a fantasy life.  As long as there's no public sex acts, I don't see that it matters?  I'm not trying to be dense.  I really don't see a qualitative difference in someone who imagines being an animal versus someone who imagines being a 13th century knight.  

Prob the diff for me is that I see appropriating animal personas as really colonialist towards animals.

Really, I think it's degrading to animals for people to role play as them. It's not other species respectful. When kids do it as part of imaginative play, that seems more empathy building to me. What is it like to be the non human other? It seems appropriative when adults do it. 

Also, Ren Faire ppl aren't generally whining about 'respect my identity'. Also, not particularly linked with a fetish scene. 

I'm taking a break now. Have a good holiday time. 

[Melissa in Australia]

55 minutes ago, Terabith said:

IDK.  It's all part of a fantasy life.  As long as there's no public sex acts, I don't see that it matters?  I'm not trying to be dense.  I really don't see a qualitative difference in someone who imagines being an animal versus someone who imagines being a 13th century knight.  

Brings images to my head of Don Quixote 

definitely  a mental illness

Edited December 18, 2021 by Melissa in Australia

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Brings images to my head of Don Quixote 

defiantly a mental illness

Don Quixote is fiction.

[Melissa in Australia]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Don Quixote is fiction.

I know

 a fictional book that illustrates  mental illnesses 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I know

 a fictional book that illustrates  mental illnesses 

The point being that it's not real life, and neither is the imposition of litter boxes in PS bathrooms.

[Melissa in Australia]

Precisely 

[KungFuPanda]

12 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

In general, part of the task of adulthood is to move away from fantasy identities. Reality acceptance and all that. 

Unless you’re a writer, then you’d better lean in harder. 😬 There’s a living to be made in the arts creating fantasies. A friend’s kid’s side hustle is making those big heads for furries/theatre costumes/mascots. She’s very skilled.

[ktgrok]

15 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

She's sad that the rumor or trolling or whatever lead to a situation where she had to discuss furries with her kid, a topic she doesn't want to have to talk about with her kid. Because her kid is ten, and she just doesn't want to go there. She wants her ten year old to be talking about/thinking about ten year old things. 

But this doesn't involve an indepth discussion of the sexual habits of furries - you just say, "Litterboxes for kids? That is one crazy rumor! No, obviously that's not real. Go play."

 

13 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

In general, part of the task of adulthood is to move away from fantasy identities. Reality acceptance and all that. 

Not sure I buy that - I think a rich fantasy life is very healing, be it role playing at the Ren Faire or immersing oneself in novels.