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At what point would you lock down again?


Not_a_Number

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1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

I'm not sure how the "rage" against those who have showed total disregard for human life will pay out, but from what i'm hearing from others--including very temperate people--is that there is going to be a massive social reckoning that is coming regarding the anti-vaxers/anti-maskers who have extended this deadly pandemic and who have allowed this variant (and others behind it) to take hold, spreading death and disruption.

Bravo!

I'm not sure why those who refuse vaccines seem to think that over 600,000 dead in the US alone (or over four million people worldwide) is an ok number & that they are ok with the number growing. Because it will be more. And not just more covid deaths (majority currently among the unvaxxed) but from all the other deaths that occur because people can't be properly treated due to covid surges taking most medical resources.

It's quite ironic if they want to clutch their pearls at your observation.

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13 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Bravo!

I'm not sure why those who refuse vaccines seem to think that over 600,000 dead in the US alone (or over four million people worldwide) is an ok number & that they are ok with the number growing. Because it will be more. And not just more covid deaths (majority currently among the unvaxxed) but from all the other deaths that occur because people can't be properly treated due to covid surges taking most medical resources.

It's quite ironic if they want to clutch their pearls at your observation.

Wow, so more deaths, violence and rage is the answer.

sickening.

 

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On 8/7/2021 at 8:27 PM, AnneGG said:

We are pretty much back to lock down mode. I don’t feel comfortable taking my can’t be vaxxed yet kid out of the front door with delta confirmed cases on our floor. (Apartment.) No one masks in the halls. 

I find this quite horrifying that people who know they have Delta aren’t masking. I didn’t realize how lucky we are here. Everyone, nearly, would be masking in the halls nearby.  It’s a puzzle to me how very different expectations are in different areas.  Some expect an immediate reaction by government to a rise in cases, and some don’t want the government to test so that no one even knows how many people have it, along with no restrictions at all. 
 

We just finished a read aloud of The Long Winter. The Ingalls family were so lucky to survive!  The girls were pretty shy around non-family members.  

Edited by Eilonwy
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6 minutes ago, pinball said:

Wow, so more deaths, violence and rage is the answer.

sickening.

 

No, what sickening is that so many have help facilitate death and disruption w/o the slightest acceptance of their guilt and their complicity.

That is truly sickening.

Bill

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1 minute ago, Stacia said:

"More deaths, violence, and rage" = what much of the anti-vax crowd is indeed doing, every single day.

I agree that it's sickening.

Exactly. They're the ones spreading death and pestilence, they're the ones assaulting and spitting at people who have the audacity to wear masks, which harms no one (and protects others).  But sure, let's pretend that it's the people who are fed up with this s*it who are the problem.  🙄

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Exactly. They're the ones spreading death and pestilence, they're the ones assaulting and spitting at people who have the audacity to wear masks, which harms no one (and protects others).  But sure, let's pretend that it's the people who are fed up with this s*it who are the problem.  🙄

This thread is insane

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55 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Me neither, although some people in our co-op are unvaxxed 😕 . 

If I were you, I would stay away from any co-op or activities frequented by antivaxxers because of Delta. If need be, I would stick to Zoom for social outlets.

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On 8/7/2021 at 6:36 PM, Not_a_Number said:

exponential growth in the NYC area can be REALLY fast 😉 . It's a highly connected place. The question is whether I'd be able to react quickly enough to numbers going up. 

Could you set yourself a threshold number of cases per day for your area?  If exceeded, it’ll likely happen clearly. 

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4 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I'm not sure that those who have evaded vaccinations w/o cause and extended the deaths and economic disruptions by their behavior have any clue the wrath they are in for is this all goes south--as seems likely.

There will be hell to pay, methinks.

I don't expect this to be the case. I really don't think those who are anti vax and anti mask feel themselves to be in any way responsible for any of the results of that. I don't think that's going to change no matter how much worse things get. I think more people will get vaccinated and maybe more people will mask, but I don't think the connection will likely be made that things wouldn't have gotten this bad if their collective actions had been different.

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I guess the tricky thing is you can be like we were - no cases for months and then have one single case infect 30 people in exposure locations all around you over a week.  It can all change quickly and by the time it does it’s too late to be reimplementing the precautions.  I’m not sure that there’s really an answer to that.

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Alarming 94K surge in COVID-19 cases among kids, hospitals overhelmed (msn.com)

The Food and Drug Administration has not yet approved vaccines for children under 12, leaving a large youth population susceptible to COVID-19. But following data released by the AAP last week showing the massive increase in COVID-19 cases among kids, the organization wrote a letter to the head of the FDA urging authorization of vaccines for 5-11-year-olds as fast as possible

"We understand that the FDA has recently worked with Pfizer and Moderna to double the number of children ages 5-11 years included in clinical trials of their COVID-19 vaccines. While we appreciate this prudent step to gather more safety data, we urge FDA to carefully consider the impact of this decision on the timeline for authorizing a vaccine for this age group," wrote Dr. Lee Savio Beers, president of the AAP.

"Simply stated, the delta variant has created a new and pressing risk to children and adolescents across this country, as it has also done for unvaccinated adults," she said.

 

 

Despite the delta surge, a recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll found among unvaccinated adults, nearly half, 46%, say they definitely won't get a shot, 15% call it very unlikely and 10% somewhat unlikely. In another question, one in five of the unvaccinated say news about variants has made them more apt to get a jab.

 

 

 

"And now schools are going to be an extraordinary accelerant," he added. "If your adolescent kid is unvaccinated, you should assume there's a high likelihood that that child is going to get COVID."

Edited by mommyoffive
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10 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I think it's "insane" that people would concern troll about anger over the deaths of 600K+ Americans. Surely that deserves a little bit of rage? 

Although I think most of us know that's not what this was about anyway. Some people just want to stir things up. 

 

It’s not concern trolling.

Bill was calling for violence against those who are not vaccinated. I asked him specifically what he meant and he said read into it what you will.

He said they would pay and that there would be a reckoning. And that they’d face wrath…

But yeah, I’m wanting to stir things up…

It’s pathetic. 

 

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10 minutes ago, pinball said:

Bill was calling for violence against those who are not vaccinated. I asked him specifically what he meant and he said read into it what you will.

Not true.

I do believe most here are astute enough to see through your gaslighting.

🙄

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3 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Read it the way you will. Immoral actions provoke consequences. Do you not grasp that?

Bill

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Not true.

I do believe most here are astute enough to see through your gaslighting.

🙄

“Reckoning…wrath…they will pay…” /Bill

Edited by pinball
Forgot quotes
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35 minutes ago, pinball said:

 

“Reckoning…wrath…they will pay…” /Bill

One quarter--the quarter of irresponsibility and death--seems to automatically jump to the conclusion that suggesting  there will be consequences to actions equates to violence.

That is very telling and part of the larger problem. 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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I do believe it's about time for all of us to ignore the troll posting and gaslighting. I'm pretty sure we all recognize it when we see it. We're almost 18 months into this thing, and we've gone around and around and around. At this point I don't see what point there is in engaging.

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Vermont has multiple counties in the substantial to high risk levels now. Stores are starting to require masks again regardless of vaccination status. And, school starts back in a couple of weeks and most of the kids I work with aren't old enough to be vaccinated. This doesn't feel good. 

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1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

One quarter--the quarter that of irresponsibility and death--seems to automatically jump to the conclusion that suggesting  there will be consequences to actions equates to violence.

That is very telling and part of the larger problem. 

Bill

What is reckoning? What is hell to pay? What is wrath?

those are YOUR VIOLENT WORDS

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2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I do believe it's about time for all of us to ignore the troll posting and gaslighting. I'm pretty sure we all recognize it when we see it. We're almost 18 months into this thing, and we've gone around and around and around. At this point I don't see what point there is in engaging.

Nice.

I’ll call out violent rhetoric when I see it

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1 minute ago, AmandaVT said:

Vermont has multiple counties in the substantial to high risk levels now. Stores are starting to require masks again regardless of vaccination status. And, school starts back in a couple of weeks and most of the kids I work with aren't old enough to be vaccinated. This doesn't feel good. 

And Vermont has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country. 😟

Susan in TX 

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Our local school district just sent out a survey. It’s supposed to be about planning their protocols for September, but the way they phrased the questions make it completely useless.  It’s all “Would you be comfortable sending your child to school if [masks are required/distancing enforced/hand sanitizer frequently used] but it doesn’t distinguish between “No, because I don’t think that is sufficient” and “No, because I don’t want my child to have to comply with those precautions.”  

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1 minute ago, pinball said:

What is reckoning? What is hell to pay? What is wrath?

those are YOUR VIOLENT WORDS

LOL. There will be social consequences. Fully understand what people are going to feel about those who enabled death and destruction.

And how dare you accuse other of violence? Look within.

Bill

 

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1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

If I were you, I would stay away from any co-op or activities frequented by antivaxxers because of Delta. If need be, I would stick to Zoom for social outlets.

We've already done a year of Zoom 😕 . Everyone is masking and we're outside. Frankly, at this point, vaccinated people are spreading it a lot as well. So I'll probably chance it. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

LOL. There will be social consequences. Fully understand what people are going to feel about those who enabled death and destruction.

And how dare you accuse other of violence? Look within.

Bill

 

I’m just quoting you. 
 

wrath…reckoning…hell to pay…

looks like you got some old time religion…I thought you were an atheist?

that is the language of the revival tent preacher.

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10 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

And Vermont has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country. 😟

Susan in TX 

My county is 84.6% vaccinated (of eligible people). I'm really curious about tomorrow's covid briefing - last week, the modeling said that cases in VT, and the country, were expected to rise for the next 4-5 weeks before falling and that cases were largely in unvaccinated people. Still hard to think about heading back to in-person school later this month. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, pinball said:

I’m just quoting you. 
 

wrath…reckoning…hell to pay…

looks like you got some old time religion…I thought you were an atheist?

that is the language of the revival tent preacher.

I'd suggest you give it up. You are making yourself look ridiculous. And no one is in the mood for this anymore. Do you not get it?

Bill

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I guess the tricky thing is you can be like we were - no cases for months and then have one single case infect 30 people in exposure locations all around you over a week.  It can all change quickly and by the time it does it’s too late to be reimplementing the precautions.  I’m not sure that there’s really an answer to that.

Well, the answer is to be proactive and not insist on touching the hot stove to know that it is hot. But no one wants to do that. 

18 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

We've already done a year of Zoom 😕 . Everyone is masking and we're outside. Frankly, at this point, vaccinated people are spreading it just as much as anyone. So I'll probably chance it. 

we know that the bolded isn't true (and I know you know that), but calling it out because it is a phrase that people are using as a reason not to vaccinate. 

4 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

My county is 84.6% vaccinated (of eligible people). I'm really curious about tomorrow's covid briefing - last week, the modeling said that cases in VT, and the country, were expected to rise for the next 4-5 weeks before falling and that cases were largely in unvaccinated people. Still hard to think about heading back to in-person school later this month. 

 

Eligible people is the key phrase. As long as we have a big segment of the population unable to be vaccinated due to age, we can't stay ahead of it. Cases will go up. 

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@pinball

How do you think society should react to people who have furthered the pandemic by refusing to vaccinate without cause, not masking, not distancing, and instead have spread disinformation?

Should everything "be cool?" No consequences for that?

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

we know that the bolded isn't true (and I know you know that), but calling it out because it is a phrase that people are using as a reason not to vaccinate. 

Sorry. You're right, I don't mean that. I'll edit. 

I'm just bummed by how MUCH vaccinated people seem to be spreading. My anti-vaccine friend is actually terrified of COVID and is not getting almost any exposure; I would guess given that fact, she's actually not a riskier person to be around than anyone else. I wouldn't have said that a month ago, when my impression was that vaccinated people spread at 1/20th the rate of unvaccinated ones... 

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I worry about the kids. Everyone knows this is the worst moment to put unprotected children in schools--which I can not believe I'm saying as I was convinced we had the tools to end this--but here we are.

It is going to take schools opening, the inevitable spread, and the inevitable shut down that will follow.

What a mess.

Bill

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Just now, Spy Car said:

I worry about the kids. Everyone knows this is the worst moment to put unprotected children in schools--which I can not believe I'm saying as I was convinced we had the tools to end this--but here we are.

I also kind of can't believe it. I mean, I've planned an entirely online year with only outdoor meetups, so obviously I kind of knew this was coming, but I didn't foresee the fact that even outdoor meetups would be making me feel queasy!! 

Just now, Spy Car said:

It is going to take schools opening, the inevitable spread, and the inevitable shut down that will follow.

What a mess.

The numbers are going up here already. I'm terrified of what's going to happen to them as soon as kids are in school!! 

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17 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I also kind of can't believe it. I mean, I've planned an entirely online year with only outdoor meetups, so obviously I kind of knew this was coming, but I didn't foresee the fact that even outdoor meetups would be making me feel queasy!! 

The numbers are going up here already. I'm terrified of what's going to happen to them as soon as kids are in school!! 

I'm afraid we are going to find out. And children (and others) will pay the price of not recognizing the obviousness of the situation.

I really thought my son would get to enjoy his senior year on campus.

Bill

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Just now, Spy Car said:

I'm afraid we are going to find out. And children (and others) will pay the price of not recognizing the obviousness of the situation.

I really thought my son would get to enjoy his senior year on campus.

Bill

My sister is supposed to finally have classes in person in college. So far, she's only had like 2 quarters of her college education out of the 2 years 😕 . I don't know what's going to happen. 

I don't even know how long I'll feel comfortable going to playgrounds, damn it. As is, we're not going to go except for our weekly meeting. 

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32 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

My sister is supposed to finally have classes in person in college. So far, she's only had like 2 quarters of her college education out of the 2 years 😕 . I don't know what's going to happen. 

I don't even know how long I'll feel comfortable going to playgrounds, damn it. As is, we're not going to go except for our weekly meeting. 

And almost entirely preventable. *Sigh*

Bill

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Sorry. You're right, I don't mean that. I'll edit. 

I'm just bummed by how MUCH vaccinated people seem to be spreading. My anti-vaccine friend is actually terrified of COVID and is not getting almost any exposure; I would guess given that fact, she's actually not a riskier person to be around than anyone else. I wouldn't have said that a month ago, when my impression was that vaccinated people spread at 1/20th the rate of unvaccinated ones... 

see, I don’t have a problem with that. She might not be getting the vaccine (and despite not knowing her, I wish she would) but she is also not going out putting herself in extra danger or spreading it. 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
Forgot the word “or”
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46 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I also kind of can't believe it. I mean, I've planned an entirely online year with only outdoor meetups, so obviously I kind of knew this was coming, but I didn't foresee the fact that even outdoor meetups would be making me feel queasy!! 

Maybe this is discussed upthread, but I’m trying to change over my thinking from short-term emergency to long-term adapting.  With measures like you mentioned for the similar groups with kids that I’m involved with.  This issue is going to be with us for a while, and since health officials here will do a partial lockdown as soon as there are more than a handful of cases, there won’t be more than a few days’ notice.  So I’m trying to have a sort of accordion-style flexibility to everything— expand when circumstances allow, contract when we need to.  

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

@pinball

How do you think society should react to people who have furthered the pandemic by refusing to vaccinate without cause, not masking, not distancing, and instead have spread disinformation?

Should everything "be cool?" No consequences for that?

Bill

The fact that she can't seem to imagine there will be social consequences for people who purposely choose to put others' lives at risk, and can therefore only interpret the statement as a call to violence, says a lot.

I think a lot of anti-maskers/vaxxers think this is just a "difference of opinion," "you do you and I'll do me" issue, and then when it's over (if it's ever over) things will go back to the way they were and no one will hold their words and actions against them. And some of those people are going to be very surprised to discover that their (former) friends and family do not consider it a "difference of opinion" but rather an indication of character traits in people they no longer want to associate with.

I'm not talking about people who are reluctant to get the vax, or they want to wait a bit, I'm talking about the smug loud-mouthed ones who call other people "sheeple" and are vocally anti-mask, anti-vax, "covid is just the flu," etc., types. People who have put up with rants on other topics, rolled their eyes at forwarded conspiracy emails, passed the bean dip at holiday dinners in order to keep the peace, are just going to decide they've had enough. Crazy Uncle Steve, whose FB feed for the last year has been nothing but rants about brainwashed sheeple may get a Christmas card this year instead of a dinner invitation. Many churches who went all in on "faith not fear" will have lost members who may never come back. Politicians who thought pandering to their base with lies and disinformation would ensure reelection may find that sacrificing lives for political gain doesn't work out so well for them — just like that guy who claimed the "kung flu" was no big deal and would "disappear like magic' who, half a million dead Americans later, ended up unemployed. 

 

Edited by Corraleno
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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that she can't seem to imagine there will be social consequences for people who purposely choose to put others' lives at risk, and can therefore only interpret the statement as a call to violence, says a lot.

I think a lot of anti-maskers/vaxxers think this is just a "difference of opinion," "you do you and I'll do me" issue, and then when it's over (if it's ever over) things will go back to the way they were and no one will hold their words and actions against them. And some of those people are going to be very surprised to discover that their (former) friends and family do not consider it a "difference of opinion" but rather an indication of character traits in people they no longer want to associate with.

I'm not talking about people who are reluctant to get the vax, or they want to wait a bit, I'm talking about the smug loud-mouthed ones who call other people "sheeple" and are vocally anti-mask, anti-vax, "covid is just the flu," etc., types. People who have put up with rants on other topics, rolled their eyes at forwarded conspiracy emails, passed the bean dip at holiday dinners in order to keep the peace, are just going to decide they've had enough. Crazy Uncle Steve, whose FB feed for the last year has been nothing but rants about brainwashed sheeple may get a Christmas card this year instead of a dinner invitation. Many churches who went all in on "faith not fear" will have lost members who may never come back. Politicians who thought pandering to their base with lies and disinformation would ensure reelection may find that sacrificing lives for political gain doesn't work out so well for them — just like that guy who claimed the "kung flu" was no big deal and would "disappear like magic' who, half a million dead Americans later, ended up unemployed. ou

Thank you for typing out something that perfectly reflects my own feelings.

I've lost patience myself.

Bill

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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

see, I don’t have a problem with that. She might not be getting the vaccine (and despite not knowing her, I wish she would) but she is also not going out putting herself in extra danger or spreading it. 

I'm OK-ish with that, too. I don't feel angry at her. She has autoimmune issues and is nervous about vaccines -- I don't think rationally so, but I get it. And it's not causing her to act evil or anything. 

 

1 hour ago, Eilonwy said:

Maybe this is discussed upthread, but I’m trying to change over my thinking from short-term emergency to long-term adapting.  With measures like you mentioned for the similar groups with kids that I’m involved with.  This issue is going to be with us for a while, and since health officials here will do a partial lockdown as soon as there are more than a handful of cases, there won’t be more than a few days’ notice.  So I’m trying to have a sort of accordion-style flexibility to everything— expand when circumstances allow, contract when we need to.  

I've always figured this was a long-term adapting kind of thing, which is why I started planning this co-op back in the spring and now have it fully organized, with an excellent roster of online classes and a carefully selected rotation of playgrounds that work quite well for everyone in our rather dispersed group. 

The part I didn't foresee is that cases would spike in July and I'd feel worried about going to playgrounds in August, even with masks 😕 . 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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6 hours ago, pinball said:

OMG…are these threats?!

what are you planning to do?

what does this even mean?

 

6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Read it the way you will. Immoral actions provoke consequences. Do you not grasp that?

Bill

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that she can't seem to imagine there will be social consequences for people who purposely choose to put others' lives at risk, and can therefore only interpret the statement as a call to violence, says a lot.

I think a lot of anti-maskers/vaxxers think this is just a "difference of opinion," "you do you and I'll do me" issue, and then when it's over (if it's ever over) things will go back to the way they were and no one will hold their words and actions against them. And some of those people are going to be very surprised to discover that their (former) friends and family do not consider it a "difference of opinion" but rather an indication of character traits in people they no longer want to associate with.

I'm not talking about people who are reluctant to get the vax, or they want to wait a bit, I'm talking about the smug loud-mouthed ones who call other people "sheeple" and are vocally anti-mask, anti-vax, "covid is just the flu," etc., types. People who have put up with rants on other topics, rolled their eyes at forwarded conspiracy emails, passed the bean dip at holiday dinners in order to keep the peace, are just going to decide they've had enough. Crazy Uncle Steve, whose FB feed for the last year has been nothing but rants about brainwashed sheeple may get a Christmas card this year instead of a dinner invitation. Many churches who went all in on "faith not fear" will have lost members who may never come back. Politicians who thought pandering to their base with lies and disinformation would ensure reelection may find that sacrificing lives for political gain doesn't work out so well for them — just like that guy who claimed the "kung flu" was no big deal and would "disappear like magic' who, half a million dead Americans later, ended up unemployed. 

 

Yeah,,,,I gave Bill a chance to explain what he meant. And he doubled down.

Now hours later, it is “social consequences.”

Mmm-hmmm…he already said there’d be “hell to pay” there’d be “reckoning,” people would be “facing wrath” 

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry Bill…

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Could you please stop? 😕 None of those phrases necessarily imply violence. 

I haven’t posted in 3 hours… but…

people are quoting me, using the @ symbol in front of my name, and  referring to me in posts, and referring to what I wrote…

but I am supposed to stop LOL


 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, pinball said:

I haven’t posted in 3 hours… but…

people are quoting me, using the @ symbol in front of my name, and  referring to me in posts, and referring to what I wrote…

but I am supposed to stop LOL

OK, don't stop. 

I recommend all of us who are finding this conversation productive and don't like being distracted by trolling make use of a very useful forum feature. I'll go first. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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Trolls don't stop. They will use any excuse for attention.

The "Ignore" feature is a great one. And if you're on a system where you're using a mouse, it is very easy to "hover" over a name/avatar & click on the "Ignore" button.

ETA: Just make sure you check any or all of boxes you want to apply (posts, messages, mentions, signature) once you click the "Ignore" button.

Edited by Stacia
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1 minute ago, Stacia said:

Trolls don't stop. They will use any excuse for attention.

The "Ignore" feature is a great one. And if you're on a system where you're using a mouse, it is very easy to "hover" over a name/avatar & click on the "Ignore" button.

I actually didn't realize you could do this by hovering! See me ignore everyone in a fit of pique and wind up talking to myself!! 🤣

Edited by Not_a_Number
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