At what point would you lock down again?

[Pam in CT]

I'm happy to start a new thread about data supporting duration of natural immunity vs vax immunity.  Would that be helpful to posters for whom that topic is of interest?

 

 

ETA:  here it is; carry on...

Edited August 10, 2021 by Pam in CT

[Spryte]

15 minutes ago, SKL said:

I saw that, but I couldn't find what the magnitude of these cases was.  I mean is it 2.34x a tiny number or a significant number?  [Or, what is the reinfection rate of people who had Covid and did not then get vaxed?]  Not very useful without that info.

Note that this study is not a comparison of natural antibodies vs. vax, but a comparison of natural antibodies vs. natural antibodies PLUS vax.

(I don't think they did a comparison of vax alone vs. natural antibodies plus vax.)

Some of that info is in the link, or if reading it from another source is preferable, I found a piece in Forbes that breaks it down, excerpts below, from Forbes (I originally posted only the link to CDC in case Forbes was offensive to some).

And now a study just published in the CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) found that among people who had already had Covid-19 those unvaccinated were 2.34 times as likely to get re-infected compared to those who were fully vaccinated. This study included residents from Paul’s home state of Kentucky. It looked at those who were at least 18 years of age and had had positive nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT) or antigen test for the SARS-CoV-2 from March to December 2020, based on Kentucky’s National Electronic Disease Surveillance System (NEDSS). For this study, the team of researchers from the CDC, the Kentucky Department for Public Health, and the University of Kentucky analyzed data in the REDCap database, which included information on these Covid-19 cases imported from the NEDSS.

The team checked which of these folks ended having another positive NAAT or antigen test result from May 1 through June 30, 2021. A total of 246 people fulfilled this criteria. They then chose 492 people who had a prior infection in 2020 but didn’t have any evidence of a second infection during the same two month period in 2021 to serve as a control group. Data from the Kentucky Immunization Registry (KYIR) helped determine who had been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 in the interim. Fully vaccinated meant having gotten a single dose of the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) Covid-19 vaccine or two doses of an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) at least 14 days before they had gotten reinfected with the Covid-19 coronavirus.

It turned out that 20.3% of the people who got reinfected had been fully vaccinated, compared with 34.3% of the control group who didn’t get reinfected. That’s how the researchers were able to determine the 2.34 times number.

 

I think some of your questions are answered in those excerpts.

Now, though, I’m heading back to the original thread topic at the request of OP.

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

All the other tangents are cool. Got it. I’ll bow out.

I just don’t want to argue in here 😕 . I don’t see how natural vs. vaccine immunity relates to the decision to curtail activity at all.

[Spryte]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I just don’t want to argue in here 😕 . I don’t see how natural vs. vaccine immunity relates to the decision to curtail activity at all.

Hey, want me to delete the bit I just posted, in answer to someone else?  I saw this after posting that, and don’t mean to contribute to derailing a thread!

[Faith-manor]

We are locking down more. I have two outdoor piano gig jobs this summer, and gave notice for October 1st for the last indoor one I had playing on Sundays for a UMC church live stream service. New members added to the worship team who are vocal about thinking covid is a hoax and openly not giving a crap about other people. I don't want to work with them. I am only on for two Sundays in Sept, and agreed to do those so they have time to find someone else, but I told them NOT to call if they are unsuccessful finding a replacement. 

We made a generous donation to the DSO so we can stream concerts. Year two of not being there in person and it hurts. But oh well.

Dh's company has backed off on getting people into the office. His permanent work remote was approved due to his mother's health.

Youngest ds still in college is returning to campus with mask mandates and mandatory weekly testing of unvaxed students and staff. 83% of faculty and staff are fully invaded, and current numbers indicate 72% of student body with likely more still reporting since it is mandatory in order to live in any campus housing. All the big classes have been broken down into several smaller sections and faculty hired to help cover it, banquet hall, ballroom, etc being used for additional class space. Fingers crossed. He is probably better there than at home where the county percentages on vaxes and community spread are terrible, while the area around the college is doing well. I am still planning on camping in the area for parent's weekend, and doing some outdoor activities with him, but that could change.

We are back to as much curbside pick up as possible, and I canceled my eye appointment because that town is a hotspot now. It can wait.

The vocal student who is supposed to have her senior recital this fall and graduate in December informed me that her college might cancel performances leaving her unable to graduate. I feel very bad for her! But they did that to us the previous two semesters, and I can't just be on deck to practice indefinitely with her. So I told her that if they do cancel it again, they will need to assign her a new accompanist. I can't be on the hook indefinitely. As it is, her voice lessons are zoom, I have to travel to another location to have access to a piano with the right equipment in the room to play for the lessons. It is barely working, and the location is an hour round trip for me. I am so sad for college students who have performance intensive majors!

We have also instituted a ten day total lockdown policy for any future visits to the Alabama house because our grandson was recently diagnosed with a heart condition. We will pack food, KN95 for rest and fuel stops.

So my career is back to being 100% on hold. Sigh. But it can't be helped, and I will do everything I can to NOT take the delta variant to my grandson.

 

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I'm happy to start a new thread about data supporting duration of natural immunity vs vax immunity.  Would that be helpful to posters for whom that topic is of interest?

Fine by me.

I'd be fully willing to accept acquired immunity as demonstrated by antibody titers (and weighed against the judgement of the experts as to sufficiently) as part of a Federal Vaccine Passport program. You?

Someone showing sufficient acquired immunity under prevailing conditions would get a "Green Light."

Bill

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Spryte said:

Hey, want me to delete the bit I just posted, in answer to someone else?  I saw this after posting that, and don’t mean to contribute to derailing a thread!

I’ve derailed plenty of threads 😉. I’m just stressed out and not feeling up to debating today.

[wendyroo]

7 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

And there is a LOT of trepidation about schools starting up. Thus far the plan is IRL with mandatory masking. But there's an expectation that cases will spike. Currently the town debate is about how to do & pay for surveillance testing in the schools.

And around here the debate is....well there is no real debate here.

The schools have announced there will be no masking, no distancing, no separation of cohorts, no quarantining (even if students were in close contact to positive cases), and no virtual option for parents to choose.

But don't fret, they are leaving the bottle of hand sanitizer available by the front door, so everyone should be fine. 🤒

[Spryte]

Back on the locking down topic.  We are modifying again.

DH has a standing lunch date with one of his fathers, and they are investigating how to make it outdoor dining only or postponing until cooler weather means they can meet at a park.  
 

Our unvaxxed DD has been hanging out with her vaxxed BFF all summer, but we are shifting down now.  They are playing as much as possible until school starts, when BFF will have more exposures.  Ditto vaxxed DS, planning to spend less time with his BFFs whose exposure will increase with school.

We are likely canceling attending a family reunion.  DD definitely will not be going.

A destination wedding in our family has been shifted to a straight up elopement with no family or friends and a private party upon return.

So … definitely things are changing here.

[Pam in CT]

18 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Hey, want me to delete the bit I just posted, in answer to someone else?  I saw this after posting that, and don’t mean to contribute to derailing a thread!

If it's OK with you, I'll just quote-text you onto the new thread.  I would think that the study you linked would be of interest to folks interested in the comparative immunity afforded by prior infection vs vaccination.  It's a highly relevant question, just a different one than the OP launched.

[Pam in CT]

17 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

And around here the debate is....well there is no real debate here.

The schools have announced there will be no masking, no distancing, no separation of cohorts, no quarantining (even if students were in close contact to positive cases), and no virtual option for parents to choose.

But don't fret, they are leaving the bottle of hand sanitizer available by the front door, so everyone should be fine. 🤒

This would truly make me crazed, if I had kids <12. 

And I certainly would vote accordingly, from school board to municipal officials to state level to federal level.

For starters.

[Faith-manor]

17 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

And around here the debate is....well there is no real debate here.

The schools have announced there will be no masking, no distancing, no separation of cohorts, no quarantining (even if students were in close contact to positive cases), and no virtual option for parents to choose.

But don't fret, they are leaving the bottle of hand sanitizer available by the front door, so everyone should be fine. 🤒

I am afraid this is where our schools are headed. Most teachers and staff are not happy, but superintendents and school boards are throwing their hands up in despair over the angry mob of ridiculous parents constantly yelling at school board meetings. They are just done with it. So the parents can live with the consequences of which sadly, given how this variant is playing out in children, will be tragic. One more instance of children suffering the folly of the adults in charge of them.

[MEmama]

We didn’t really change much this summer— I am meeting a friend outdoors every week or two and DS is working outdoors as a lifeguard, but other than that (and vaccinated families visited), we continue to mask and distance and avoid going out just as we have since March 2020. I’ve felt a little less *stressed* about running necessary errands, doctors appointments and so on, but still felt masking etc is necessary. I guess I’ll back to grocery delivery/curb side pickup this winter.

DH is worried his office might open back up this fall;  I’m skeptical they’ll go through with it as cases continue to rise, and none of his coworkers want to go back but his boss is pressing for it. It’s likely he can get a health exemption if he presses but he doesn’t like to rock the boat. If he HAS to go back I’ll buy him a purifier for his office and he would mask, but we will both be very upset. No use worrying yet. 
 

Summer for us has been summer 2020v2 and I expect the same will be true for winter. 

[happi duck]

55 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I am afraid this is where our schools are headed. Most teachers and staff are not happy, but superintendents and school boards are throwing their hands up in despair over the angry mob of ridiculous parents constantly yelling at school board meetings. They are just done with it. So the parents can live with the consequences of which sadly, given how this variant is playing out in children, will be tragic. One more instance of children suffering the folly of the adults in charge of them.

I wish everyone would err on the side of caution. If half of a group will be upset then go with the wishes of the more cautious half not the loudest half.  

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I am afraid this is where our schools are headed. Most teachers and staff are not happy, but superintendents and school boards are throwing their hands up in despair over the angry mob of ridiculous parents constantly yelling at school board meetings. They are just done with it. So the parents can live with the consequences of which sadly, given how this variant is playing out in children, will be tragic. One more instance of children suffering the folly of the adults in charge of them.

This is what is happening here too.  I'm stunned.  Our county health director is pleading with parents and giving them scientific facts but they don't care - they are insisting on optional masking at best.  I feel bad for the teachers and for the parents who know the consequences and have to face some tough decisions.  😞  

 

[happi duck]

I hate the optional masking "compromise". 

One museum I contacted about their lack of a mask requirement said "you're welcome to wear a mask".  Ugh.  Of course I can mask!  

People act like they're *letting* you mask.

Masks work best when everyone has one!

[Happy2BaMom]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:53 AM, Stacia said:

Yep. Louisiana, Florida, Texas, ... already happening where they are turning away folks because they can't treat any more people. SC is getting there. GA too. Probably quite a few other states. I saw last night that Grady (a major trauma center for the Southeast, located in Atlanta) is no longer accepting emergencies, that's in addition to most of the hospitals around the Atlanta area being in exactly the same mode. Doesn't matter if you come by ambulance, car, or on foot -- they are turning you away. And (as I posted in the sick shaming thread), these overwhelmed hospitals are turning away folks who are there for all kinds of problems, not just covid. Bad car wrecks, heart attacks, strokes, broken bones, etc.... Saw something else that said labs are also overwhelmed, leading to excessive delays.

Maybe the anti-vaxxer sociopaths think covid won't happen to them but they should know the possibility of other things/accidents could. (Of course I am attributing logic and care where little to none seems to exist.) The injury and death rate that's attributed to covid is not just covid itself, it's all these other things (which affect both the vaxxed and unvaxxed) when there are no medical services and personnel available to treat them.

Again, I remain stunned that the anti-vax group that thinks these sheer numbers of death, medical infrastructure overwhelm, and trauma are perfectly ok while they spread outright lies and spew hate.

It is absolutely heartbreaking. And horrifying.

I do think that society (the remainder) will be changed when this is eventually over. There has been too much individual and group trauma for it not to.

I've been watching hospitalization stats for the last few weeks. There are several states in this country (with more to follow) that are tipping into a health care abyss, due to the very low # of available ICU & hospital beds, with infections exponentially rising.  So far these states have relied on being able to shift patients out of state, but those options are now running out as well.

Many states are now reporting hospitalizations that are close to or past the previous peaks in this pandemic. Ditto with case numbers....and infections are still rising.

Meanwhile, the Sturgis rally just started (with an estimated gathering of 700,000 people from all over the country), the Iowa State Fair starts this week (runs for 11 days & is the largest event that happens in IA, with an estimated 100,000 people visiting each day), and schools are set to reopen, many (most?) with no masking mandates.

The natural consequences of all this are that *many* more people are going to die. Most of them will be unvaccinated, regardless of what anyone wishes or thinks or believes or whether or not they 'deserve' it. The virus doesn't care. And, most unfortunately, the most vulnerable will continue to sicken and die, vaccinated or not, due to Covid & the lack of access to other needed health care.  That's another natural consequence of choosing "Natural Selection" as the answer to the question, "How will we respond to this pandemic?".

And so, to return to the topic of this thread, if you care about your family, #YesLockDown (however you're best able to manage, given the mental, emotional & physical needs of your family members).

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Happy2BaMom

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, wendyroo said:

 

But don't fret, they are leaving the bottle of hand sanitizer available by the front door, so everyone should be fine. 🤒

" they think the stuff is a magic potion. I find it especially ironic when the ones saying, "no masks, but it is fine if you use hand sanitizer" are the same ones laughing at me for spraying my groceries with peroxide before putting them away. Both are for surface transmission! 

52 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I hate the optional masking "compromise". 

One museum I contacted about their lack of a mask requirement said "you're welcome to wear a mask".  Ugh.  Of course I can mask!  

People act like they're *letting* you mask.

Masks work best when everyone has one!

It's like telling people "if you think drunk driving is dangerous, just don't do it" - ignoring that OTHER people's actions can harm us!

[Kanin]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

People with real IDs drive drunk.  Sigh.

I think vax cards as passes to walk through businesses are bizarre, and they discriminate against the most vulnerable members of society.  I will vote with my pocketbook if this becomes a thing here.

True, but I guess it takes effort to get a fake ID, or a fake vaccine card, so hopefully a bunch of people will just be too lazy to do it. 

 

[kristin0713]

27 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And so, to return to the topic of this thread, if you care at all about your family, #YesLockDown (however you're best able to manage, given the mental, emotional & physical needs of your family members).

Well, I care about very much about my family, but I believe the risk to us is minimal at this point.  You really can't make a blanket statement like that without knowing the details of each family's situation.  We are a fully vaccinated family that just dealt with a breakthrough case in the house.  The rest of us did not catch it, so I feel confident that we can live our lives as close to normal as possible this fall/winter.  Even my crappy J&J one-shot seems to have "worked".   I am not afraid at all for my family's safety.  If activities are running, I will send my kids. We will socialize.  We will keep going to church.  As always, we will stay home when sick.  Our vaccines held up and maybe we were given a boost of natural immunity from my mom's case.  I actually feel better now going into the fall because my mom is the one I would have worried about the most. 

Not to rehash, but we have significant OCD and anxiety to contend with here and my biggest priority currently is taking care of DD's mental health.  It is definitely more of a threat to her than covid.  And she is my PANS kid.  

[Happy2BaMom]

15 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

Well, I care about very much about my family, but I believe the risk to us is minimal at this point.  You really can't make a blanket statement like that without knowing the details of each family's situation.  We are a fully vaccinated family that just dealt with a breakthrough case in the house.  The rest of us did not catch it, so I feel confident that we can live our lives as close to normal as possible this fall/winter.  Even my crappy J&J one-shot seems to have "worked".   I am not afraid at all for my family's safety.  If activities are running, I will send my kids. We will socialize.  We will keep going to church.  As always, we will stay home when sick.  Our vaccines held up and maybe we were given a boost of natural immunity from my mom's case.  I actually feel better now going into the fall because my mom is the one I would have worried about the most. 

Not to rehash, but we have significant OCD and anxiety to contend with here and my biggest priority currently is taking care of DD's mental health.  It is definitely more of a threat to her than covid.  And she is my PANS kid.  

Good. Sounds like you know your limits. 

[Eilonwy]

Where we live, we’re currently between waves (had one this Spring) so this is our calm period.  I’m not sure when the next wave will come, maybe October? We have a small population in my region so it doesn’t take more than 10-15 cases a day for it to blow up to a high rate per 100,000.  This means there is little warning time, since we can go from background stable levels to a problem in a week.  Maybe it’s like that everywhere?   Exponential growth is kind of counterintuitive.  Our health officials are very cautious, and the residents are pretty supportive of that in the urban areas, less so rurally because they think it just won’t get there. We’ll lock down again when it comes, but right now we need this time as our breather to go do things with people (mostly outside) for our ongoing mental health.  Masks are still mandated here for inside activities and people are mostly going along with that. I’m actually not sure why people are so laid-back about masking, etc. here when some others in other places (in the same country) are really upset. I guess the people who live here tend to be risk averse. And a high proportion of seniors.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Eilonwy

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And so, to return to the topic of this thread, if you care about your family, #YesLockDown (however you're best able to manage, given the mental, emotional & physical needs of your family members).

I'm still trying to figure out how that looks. I'm sticking to meeting up with our co-op outdoors and masked, I think. And I told them not to come if anyone even has a "cold." So I hope this protects us. Please, let that be enough 😕 . 

[melmichigan]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm still trying to figure out how that looks. I'm sticking to meeting up with our co-op outdoors and masked, I think. And I told them not to come if anyone even has a "cold." So I hope this protects us. Please, let that be enough 😕 . 

I had another IV infusion today and I'm encouraged to still be outdoors masked (small town).  🤞that will be enough for all of us. 

We wear n99 masks, social distance, and avoid crowds.

Edited August 11, 2021 by melmichigan
clarification

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Had to be fully locked down for most of this week (family member due for an operation, and anyone leaving the house would invalidate that member's pre-op COVID test). Surprising how easy that's turned out to be - perhaps due to how little unlocking we'd managed prior to that point. (We can de-isolate on Friday, or possibly late Thursday depending on how things go).

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

Had to be fully locked down for most of this week (family member due for an operation, and anyone leaving the house would invalidate that member's pre-op COVID test). Surprising how easy that's turned out to be - perhaps due to how little unlocking we'd managed prior to that point. (We can de-isolate on Friday, or possibly late Thursday depending on how things go).

I hope the operation goes well.

[Pam in CT]

If anything like this were unfolding anywhere in my area, I'd be locking down.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1425453334891220993

As I figured out where to move to.

Health care workers, advocating within the system, on behalf of kids too young to be vaccinated.

God help us all.

[Jean in Newcastle]

13 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

If anything like this were unfolding anywhere in my area, I'd be locking down.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1425453334891220993

As I figured out where to move to.

Health care workers, advocating within the system, on behalf of kids too young to be vaccinated.

God help us all.

I am starting to feel like Cassandra (Trojan war reference).  I desperately want to be wrong.  And really, some people will come through this unscathed saying "I told you it was all a hoax/overblown/whatever" while ignoring those families who came through this harmed beyond belief. 

[ktgrok]

My parents live in this county. And it isn't the only one in this position. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-surge-prompts-one-florida-county-ask-residents-use-911-n1276561

First responders along Florida's Space Coast pleaded with residents Wednesday to think twice before calling 911, as they struggle to contain the region's skyrocketing number of Covid-19 cases.

Jampacked emergency rooms and intensive care units have slowed hospital operations to a crawl, Brevard County Fire Rescue and Emergency Management officials said.

[Faith-manor]

45 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I am starting to feel like Cassandra (Trojan war reference).  I desperately want to be wrong.  And really, some people will come through this unscathed saying "I told you it was all a hoax/overblown/whatever" while ignoring those families who came through this harmed beyond belief. 

How many children have to fall, how many long haulers, how many dead before people stop being narcissistic? The answer is that likely, there will never be enough. I truly feel that groups like the ones terrorizing school boards and making threats against them have no threshold. They will deny there is a plague to the bitter end.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I am starting to feel like Cassandra (Trojan war reference).  I desperately want to be wrong.  And really, some people will come through this unscathed saying "I told you it was all a hoax/overblown/whatever" while ignoring those families who came through this harmed beyond belief. 

Honestly, I've felt like Cassandra the whole darn pandemic. 

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

If anything like this were unfolding anywhere in my area, I'd be locking down.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1425453334891220993

As I figured out where to move to.

Health care workers, advocating within the system, on behalf of kids too young to be vaccinated.

God help us all.

That tweet was HORRIFYING.

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

That tweet was HORRIFYING.

Just awful 😞 . 

[Pam in CT]

re fine line between outrage machine v genuine horror

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

That tweet was HORRIFYING.

Yeah.

 

This is off-topic, but I've tried hard over the last few years to pay heed to the likes of Molly McKew and Kate Starbird and Malcom Nance and others in the business of identifying and parsing the mechanisms through which disinformation and discord are constructed/ disseminated / operated/ monetized.  And among the very first, most basic tool they all counsel in slightly different language is the idea that if you see something that really triggers your adrenaline and moves you to "share," THAT is the time to slow down, count to ten, assess the source, consider the possibility that it was constructed for a purpose, consider the possibility that your chain is being yanked, consider the possibility that you are being manipulated into serving as an unintentional cog in an outrage machine whose only purpose is to monetize manufactured discord.

Because as often as not, that is what is happening.

It isn't here though.  Natalie Allison is a real reporter; the Tennesean is a real outlet; David French is a real writer/pundit (who FWIW identifies as "conservative").

And it is... emblematic... of our brokenness.  Threatening the lives of health care workers who are trying to protect children and their teachers.

 

It's not outrage that it evokes. Much closer to despair.

 

 

[kokotg]

DH got his first vaguely threatening e-mail from parents protesting the mask mandate today. I had heard that such things were going around. Among many other things, it tells him that he's breaking the law if he enforces the mask rules by "practicing medicine without a license." It would be hilarious if there weren't so many people behind it and similar things. It ends by threatening that so many people are going to homeschool that "you won't have a school left." oh no--please don't pull YOUR kids out of school, angry parents who don't understand science! How will the schools soldier on without your awesome family's participation?! And given that there are teacher shortages all over the place this year, and my husband has the biggest class sizes he's ever had, I'm pretty sure students leaving isn't the biggest thing to worry about at the moment. People sure are going to miss teachers and nurses when they're gone. 

[Pam in CT]

13 minutes ago, kokotg said:

...People sure are going to miss teachers and nurses when they're gone. 

Nurses, yes.

 

Some of the furious backlash against teachers has a strong #DefundPublicEducation vibe to me. 

Which has been percolating along for decades, ever since Brown v BoE really. But COVID created a new battleground with new rallying cries and new organizational fervor.

 

 

 

{I'm evidently in a gloomy state of mind today and probably should pry myself off the interwebs about now. Sigh.}

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

If anything like this were unfolding anywhere in my area, I'd be locking down.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1425453334891220993

As I figured out where to move to.

Health care workers, advocating within the system, on behalf of kids too young to be vaccinated.

God help us all.

I'm a few hours away, in the same state, and we're getting some of the same response-again, mostly in the most financially privileged districts. Fortunately, my center is in a less affluent one, where about half the parents breathed a sigh of relief at the mask mandate, and the other half grumbled and pulled out their masks from last year, and told their kids to put them on, they're going to school. But I've lost two students so far who have parents who aren't willing to have them mask for a music lesson, because they don't see the point "Since you're vaccinated"-and apparently don't recognize that Delta has changed the game. 

 

[kokotg]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Nurses, yes.

 

Some of the furious backlash against teachers has a strong #DefundPublicEducation vibe to me. 

 

Well, if THESE people were ready to get rid of schools, they'd already be homeschooling. Clearly they don't think they can do it themselves or they wouldn't need to send my husband threatening e-mails about how HE'S doing it all wrong. This particular group is all wealthy white parents who paid a lot for their houses and expect a highly ranked school system that bends to their will. And they're not used to not getting their way. 

[Harriet Vane]

23 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm a few hours away, in the same state, and we're getting some of the same response-again, mostly in the most financially privileged districts. Fortunately, my center is in a less affluent one, where about half the parents breathed a sigh of relief at the mask mandate, and the other half grumbled and pulled out their masks from last year, and told their kids to put them on, they're going to school. But I've lost two students so far who have parents who aren't willing to have them mask for a music lesson, because they don't see the point "Since you're vaccinated"-and apparently don't recognize that Delta has changed the game. 

 

Similar here. I asked that we order food delivered to a family get-together (rather than restaurant dining). The pushback has been quite stiff. There is no recognition of either the Delta variant or of my personal health struggles. It has been eye opening and quite painful.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Harriet Vane

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

If anything like this were unfolding anywhere in my area, I'd be locking down.

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1425453334891220993

As I figured out where to move to.

Health care workers, advocating within the system, on behalf of kids too young to be vaccinated.

God help us all.

Wow. 

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

It isn't here though.  Natalie Allison is a real reporter; the Tennesean is a real outlet; David French is a real writer/pundit (who FWIW identifies as "conservative").

And it is... emblematic... of our brokenness.  Threatening the lives of health care workers who are trying to protect children and their teachers.

It's not outrage that it evokes. Much closer to despair.

Yeah, David French isn't controversial on purpose, and the media outlet he works for is purposefully trying to lower the temperature.

This doesn't evoke despair in me first; that's secondary. It chills me to the core and evokes fear; my DH works in healthcare. We live in an area with @ 50% vaccination rate, but I think most of the people vaccinated are over 60 from what is being said online. I know people who were personally letting it be known when events were set up to harass the governor at his personal residence (not the governor's mansion) and who were recruiting people to pass legislation to tie the governor's hands in any emergency (it passed and is in effect). These people are just shy of being unhinged like in this video.

[lewelma]

I wish I had not watched the video. 😞

[Carrie12345]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:28 PM, Happy2BaMom said:

I've been watching hospitalization stats for the last few weeks. There are several states in this country (with more to follow) that are tipping into a health care abyss, due to the very low # of available ICU & hospital beds, with infections exponentially rising.  So far these states have relied on being able to shift patients out of state, but those options are now running out as well.

Yup. My county has 24 ICU beds. Currently, 2 are Covid occupied and 18 are just normal intensive care needs. We don’t need a huge surge to max us out. It could literally take just a few more people. As we near a 30/day case average, I could wake up in the morning and learn we’re full.

[wendyroo]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I wish I had not watched the video. 😞

I didn't make it through the whole thing. 😔

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I wish I had not watched the video. 😞

I figure not burying one's head in the sand is a good idea 😕 . Not that I enjoyed it... 

[MEmama]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I wish I had not watched the video. 😞

To me it evoked images of zombie attacks or Nazi book burnings. A people utterly and completely unhinged. 
 

Americans need never again wonder in innocence how the Nazis took power. We are watching a similar fate unfold right here, in real time. My poor German mother—born during the war and scarred from the aftermath—is beside herself that her chosen country would willingly go down a similar path, some areas in apparent glee. 
 

From where I sit in my quiet, liberal, civic minded community I struggle to comprehend such blind hatred, such breathtaking ignorance, such proud ugliness. It is nearly impossible for me to reconcile that we share a country since we clearly don’t share any vision or ideals. 
 

 

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

To me it evoked images of zombie attacks or Nazi book burnings. A people utterly and completely unhinged. 

Americans need never again wonder in innocence how the Nazis took power. We are watching a similar fate unfold right here, in real time. My poor German mother—born during the war and scarred from the aftermath—is beside herself that her chosen country would willingly go down a similar path, some areas in apparent glee. 

From where I sit in my quiet, liberal, civic minded community I struggle to comprehend such blind hatred, such breathtaking ignorance, such proud ugliness. It is nearly impossible for me to reconcile that we share a country since we clearly don’t share any vision or ideals. 

Meanwhile, the unhinged think they are the ones preventing another Nazi regime. Seriously. I see it on FB every day, and they think they are saving the country. 

[wendyroo]

7 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Meanwhile, the unhinged think they are the ones preventing another Nazi regime. Seriously. I see it on FB every day, and they think they are saving the country. 

That is what was hard about the video for me. I kept thinking, "I bet his mom is proud of him." And not sarcastically, or ironically, but honestly, I bet most of those protesters' family members view them as righteous patriots fighting the good fighting and standing up to oppression.

Whole communities passing down that poison generation to generation. 

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

That is what was hard about the video for me. I kept thinking, "I bet his mom is proud of him." And not sarcastically, or ironically, but honestly, I bet most of those protesters' family members view them as righteous patriots fighting the good fighting and standing up to oppression.

Whole communities passing down that poison generation to generation. 

I have had people give me the whole "I bet your mom is proud of you" line for sharing factual information, though it wasn't about Covid that time. SMH

I am surprised by this in my community. I grew up with a lot of the same values, and I feel like their behavior is a betrayal of those values. Additionally, I know people from similar background who live elsewhere or of a different generation that are following Covid guidelines even with poor news sources. Even people who are all worried about freedom seem to be getting vaccinated if they are 60+, so people my age don't seem to have gotten it from their parents. 

But I do worry they will pass it on beyond their own generation. So sad. 

[mathnerd]

20 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

That is what was hard about the video for me. I kept thinking, "I bet his mom is proud of him." And not sarcastically, or ironically, but honestly, I bet most of those protesters' family members view them as righteous patriots fighting the good fighting and standing up to oppression.

Whole communities passing down that poison generation to generation. 

The virus does not care. It will mutate into Delta Plus independently right here in the US (it has been known to happen with other strains). The ICU's are overflowing. People like this are going around without masks and without vaccines and Delta is more infectious than other variants. We are approaching 650K deaths in a span of 2 years. Connecting the dots is rather easy for a logical person.

I really hope that the health care workers in those areas don't quit and find jobs in other parts of the country! That would spell disaster for the other people living in those parts.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

To me it evoked images of zombie attacks or Nazi book burnings. A people utterly and completely unhinged. 
 

Americans need never again wonder in innocence how the Nazis took power. We are watching a similar fate unfold right here, in real time. My poor German mother—born during the war and scarred from the aftermath—is beside herself that her chosen country would willingly go down a similar path, some areas in apparent glee. 
 

From where I sit in my quiet, liberal, civic minded community I struggle to comprehend such blind hatred, such breathtaking ignorance, such proud ugliness. It is nearly impossible for me to reconcile that we share a country since we clearly don’t share any vision or ideals. 
 

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree. They swallowed the bait hook, line, and sinker, and we will all pay the price. I actually find myself almost looking forward to a shut down again. No people outside of my own family to deal with is beginning to sound pretty good. At the rate of speed this nation is going, we are going to end up eschewing society for a very long time, maybe permanently. I have no trust left to squander.