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At what point would you lock down again?


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4 hours ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Here being vaccinated exempts you from quarantine if you do not have symptoms. This concerns me because it means that a vaccinated student can still attend school if their parent or other family member is positive for covid. Last spring when vaccination seemed to prevent spread this made some sense, but it does not seem safe anymore.

Yes, this is our district’s plan too. There is a flow chart with several scenarios. The notification to parents trigger has changed here also since last school year .

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Just now, ktgrok said:

My problem is that they are being proactive too far down the chain of events. Given the situation I'm glad they are sourcing supplies, but to be truly proactive we as a state would have made SOME kind of freaking effort to keep from getting to the point we need more ventilators. 

It literally says in the article they are not short on ventilators.

so now YOU think Khoury is lying…

 

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Just now, pinball said:

It literally says in the article they are not short on ventilators.

so now YOU think Khoury is lying…

 

So why do they want more? As door stoppers? Or because they anticipate being short on ventilators? 

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This is the hospitalization and death rate in Florida - there is no denying this is a crisis. Quibbling over how much of a crisis is rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic at this point. 

And given that most hospitals are saying about 90% of their hospitalized covid patients are unvaccinated it is a totally unnecessary, totally preventable crisis. 

It's shameful. Nothing short of shameful. 

Screen Shot 2021-08-12 at 2.10.27 PM.png

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My pediatric doctor friend was looking for a pediatric bed for a patient last night. No open ped beds in Kansas, Missouri, or Nebraska yesterday afternoon. Three entire states. Every bed filled.

And, school started in most of those school districts this week with many of those districts not masking.
 

 

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There are currently 15,200 people in Florida hospitalized with Covid-19, 90% of who were unvaccinated.

The state badly needs ventalors, which is why they were requested (at the risk of political backlash from Florida's governor).

I'm glad the Federal government is doing the right thing and sending supplies, even while DeSantis works to actively undermine public health.

Bill

 

Edited by Spy Car
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Yeah, I mean, we can say, "they are running out of ventilators" or "they may proactively need to source an additional supply of ventilators" but at the end of the day, massive numbers are being hospitalized and dying. Period. 

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7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So why do they want more? As door stoppers? Or because they anticipate being short on ventilators? 

I don’t know why they want more. 
 

But it is clear you think your government is lying or the media who quoted him is lying.

 

It’s hurricane season. Maybe coupled with the Covid situation, the Haelth Dept (or whatever it is called) wants to place ventilators around the state in a strategic fashion in case storms impact shifting them around easily.

 

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2 minutes ago, pinball said:

I don’t know why they want more. 
 

But it is clear you think your government is lying or the media who quoted him is lying.

 

It’s hurricane season. Maybe coupled with the Covid situation, the Haelth Dept (or whatever it is called) wants to place ventilators around the state in a strategic fashion in case storms impact shifting them around easily.

 

So...I didn't say he was lying. He very carefully phrased things. If they are not currently out, but anticipate not having enough soon, his wording would be still accurate. 

Do YOU think that it is a total coincidence that he asked for more after we hit ANOTHER record high in hospitalizations here? (I think that's the 4th record in 10 days or something like that) Can you look at this graph and think that we have plenty of ventilators for the future, have no real need of any, but ordered some anyway? 

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Edited by ktgrok
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5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So...I didn't say he was lying. He very carefully phrased things. If they are not currently out, but anticipate not having enough soon, his wording would be still accurate. 

Do YOU think that it is a total coincidence that he asked for more after we hit ANOTHER record high in hospitalizations here? (I think that's the 4th record in 10 days or something like that) Can you look at this graph and think that we have plenty of ventilators for the future, have no real need of any, but ordered some anyway? 

Screen Shot 2021-08-12 at 2.10.27 PM.png

I’m not on trial here. Carry on without me…

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7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Please don't feed the trolls. The argument about Florida ventilators isn't an evidence-based one. 

Of course it is evidenced based…I provided the evidence that clearly Florida is not begging for ventilators.

No one can accept that.

 

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6 minutes ago, pinball said:

Of course it is evidenced based…I provided the evidence that clearly Florida is not begging for ventilators.

No one can accept that.

You're arguing about semantics. Of course any official spokesperson of that government would use the word "request" rather than "beg". The fact is that they asked (or whatever synonym you want to use) for more ventilators, as you yourself quoted. That means they anticipate not having enough (or are already at that point but won't admit it. I don't assume they would.).

Debating about word choice is ridiculous when the infection and hospitalization numbers speak for themselves.

Edited by regentrude
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7 minutes ago, pinball said:

Of course it is evidenced based…I provided the evidence that clearly Florida is not begging for ventilators.

No one can accept that.

 

I thought you wanted us to continue without you? Or do you mean we just shouldn't provide evidence that disagrees with you?

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

I thought you wanted us to continue without you? Or do you mean we just shouldn't provide evidence that disagrees with you?

I don't know what she thinks, but I personally think we should stop trying to argue with people who aren't going to argue in good faith 😉 . 

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1 minute ago, TechWife said:

 

To be blunt, it's time for you to stop making excuses and to be quiet, IMO.

My former sister in law died a short time ago. She was an un-vaccinated cancer patient (not able to get the vaccine due to her treatments).  I suppose her vent is available for other Floridians now. Yes, I'm angry.

Her son, my nephew, is positive for delta but is at home and only "feels poorly." He has two small grandchildren who go to daycare - I do not know when they were last at the house. His mother and he lived together. Imagine all of the people who could be exposed - his daughter, her children, their classmates, their classmates families, his daughter's co-workers, their families - it goes on and on.

Go get your shots people.

 

I’m sorry for your loss…but you have no idea what I’ve been through and what I’ve lost in this pandemic.

 

 

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On an unrelated note, the world made us lock down this week... DD5 threw up yesterday and today, and her good friend from preschool has been away this week, so we haven't seen anyone at all this week through no fault of our own 😉 . 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't know what she thinks, but I personally think we should stop trying to argue with people who aren't going to argue in good faith 😉 . 

Time to break out that ignore function again.  🥳

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3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I thought you wanted us to continue without you? Or do you mean we just shouldn't provide evidence that disagrees with you?

No, I said YOU continue on without me. You, Katie.

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You're arguing about semantics. Of course any official spokesperson of that government would use the word "request" rather than "beg". The fact is that they asked (or whatever synonym you want to use) for more ventilators, as you yourself quoted. That means they anticipate not having enough (or are already at that point but won't admit it. I don't assume they would.).

Debating about word choice is ridiculous when the infection and hospitalization numbers speak for themselves.

200 ventilators could be enough to replace worn out ventilators without an change in total useful ventilators available for Florida.

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1 minute ago, pinball said:

200 ventilators could be enough to replace worn out ventilators without an change in total useful ventilators available for Florida.

LOL. Sure. They don't actually need the vents. They are just proactively replacing the ones worn out. Because this, of all things, is the one they choose to be proactive about? 
This is beyond ridiculous. 

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Well it looks to me like both sides are doing selective reporting about Florida for political reasons.

They clearly have a lot of cases there.  I hope it turns around soon.

To date, Florida's deaths per million population is below average for the USA, and its vax rates are about average for the USA.  In a way, it is to their benefit that their surge in cases is coming now rather than earlier in the pandemic, when we were less able to manage it and save lives.

As we know, there are other reasons besides Covid that the hospitals in Florida (and other southern states) are strained.  The RSV outbreak is huge.  Of course the Covid spike isn't helping matters.  I don't understand why so many people don't want to hear whichever facts are not helpful to their political "side."

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7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

On an unrelated note, the world made us lock down this week... DD5 threw up yesterday and today, and her good friend from preschool has been away this week, so we haven't seen anyone at all this week through no fault of our own 😉 . 

I am so sorry to hear that! I hope recovery is quick.

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1 minute ago, regentrude said:

LOL. Sure. They don't actually need the vents. They are just proactively replacing the ones worn out. Because this, of all things, is the one they choose to be proactive about? 
This is beyond ridiculous. 

Right. It's ridiculous. So don't argue with it 😛 

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Just now, Faith-manor said:

I am so sorry to hear that! I hope recovery is quick.

Thanks!! She has a sensitive tummy in general, so I bet it's not something super serious. She's my puker, lol... which actually came in handy in March 2020. She conveniently threw up right as cases were taking off, and we had a really good excuse to stay home before everyone else was locking down. 

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4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

LOL. Sure. They don't actually need the vents. They are just proactively replacing the ones worn out. Because this, of all things, is the one they choose to be proactive about? 
This is beyond ridiculous. 

Yes, they need the vents. The Health Dept guy said they needed them. 
 

where did I say they don’t need vents?

having a stockpile fulfills a need. Replacing worn out ventilators fulfills a need. Strategically placing vents across a wide geographic area fulfills a need…all things I said about Florida NEEDING vents
 

 

 

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If nothing else; the pandemic has shown what a razor edge margin our healthcare system operates on.

I took a patient, who had had hip surgery, 200 miles today to a rehab. She’s not from there, her family is not there, it’s just the closest place with a rehab bed open.  It’s not Covid related; it’s a serious lack of employees in my area.   My local Hospital is full. They don’t even have beds for surgical patients so they’re cancelling elective surgeries.  We’ve been taking patients from there to other hospitals all day. But here’s the thing—it’s not really new. We had surges like this before Covid and and we don’t have many Covid hospitalizations right now.  But RSV is rampant and I know of three babies that have been flown to larger hospitals this week. 
 

Covis is the tipping point, absolutely. But the healthcare system is finally being shown for the disaster that it is. 

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27 minutes ago, pinball said:

Yes, they need the vents. The Health Dept guy said they needed them. 
 

where did I say they don’t need vents?

having a stockpile fulfills a need. Replacing worn out ventilators fulfills a need. Strategically placing vents across a wide geographic area fulfills a need…all things I said about Florida NEEDING vents
 

 

 

Usually we replace worn out equipment by buying from the company.

I don’t know what your point is, and it doesn’t really matter, because whatever you personally may believe, that doesn’t change the very real fact that the situation with Covid is bad. When more than half your ICU beds are taken up with 1 diagnosis for weeks and weeks, you know that things are not good. I have never seen that before, in my many years in ICU. 
Not sure what you get out of saying the stuff you do. It reminds me of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whatever that crazy argument is.

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2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

If nothing else; the pandemic has shown what a razor edge margin our healthcare system operates on.

I took a patient, who had had hip surgery, 200 miles today to a rehab. She’s not from there, her family is not there, it’s just the closest place with a rehab bed open.  It’s not Covid related; it’s a serious lack of employees in my area.   My local Hospital is full. They don’t even have beds for surgical patients so they’re cancelling elective surgeries.  We’ve been taking patients from there to other hospitals all day. But here’s the thing—it’s not really new. We had surges like this before Covid and and we don’t have many Covid hospitalizations right now.  But RSV is rampant and I know of three babies that have been flown to larger hospitals this week. 
 

Covis is the tipping point, absolutely. But the healthcare system is finally being shown for the disaster that it is. 

If you think the healthcare system in the US is a disaster, with it’s huge resources, you can imagine what other countries have been facing throughout this pandemic.

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2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

If nothing else; the pandemic has shown what a razor edge margin our healthcare system operates on.

I took a patient, who had had hip surgery, 200 miles today to a rehab. She’s not from there, her family is not there, it’s just the closest place with a rehab bed open.  It’s not Covid related; it’s a serious lack of employees in my area.   My local Hospital is full. They don’t even have beds for surgical patients so they’re cancelling elective surgeries.  We’ve been taking patients from there to other hospitals all day. But here’s the thing—it’s not really new. We had surges like this before Covid and and we don’t have many Covid hospitalizations right now.  But RSV is rampant and I know of three babies that have been flown to larger hospitals this week. 
 

Covis is the tipping point, absolutely. But the healthcare system is finally being shown for the disaster that it is. 

I agree that the pandemic has shown with incredibly distressing clarity how broken our healthcare system really is! Unfortunately, I truly believe this is going to get way worse before anything is done about it because such a large voting bloc would rather die to keep the status quo than embrace change. It seems like a pretty sizeable majority of folks will not accept reality, that what we have for healthcare access, funding, distribution of resources, and private insurance is a deadly, inhumane system.

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Stanford requires all their students to test regardless of vaccination status starting August 15th.

https://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/faqs-covid-19-screening-program-students

”COVID-19 Testing Program for All Undergraduates

Who Should Be Testing? 

Please note: Effective 8/1/21, in order to monitor the prevalence of COVID-19 at Stanford and keep campus as safe as possible, students living on campus or coming to campus will be required to register and test weekly using Color Genomics beginning August 15, regardless of vaccination status.”

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2 hours ago, TCB said:

Usually we replace worn out equipment by buying from the company.

Exactly. If it's just a routine replacement of worn out ventilators, why aren't the hospitals ordering them from the manufacturer, as usual?

Why did the Emergency Management Department request an immediate shipment of 300 ventilators from the federal stockpile? 

Claiming they aren't actually needed, they're just replacing old machinery is like asking FEMA to replace your roof, not because of any natural disaster but just because the roof is old and worn out and was due to be replaced soon anyway. That's not how it works.

ETA: So DeSantis now admits that they requested 300 ventilators and says the reason he denied it earlier was because the reporter had asked him about ordering 300 respirators, so he said that was totally false... because technically that's not what they ordered. LOL

Edited by Corraleno
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3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Ouch to the homeschool band!

I think if you wore a face shield at least that would be another reduction in risk. Maybe mount a surgical mask or a part of a hepa filter vacuum bag at the bottom so air can come in, but your droplets don't get out. Demonstrating embouchure is always problematic in these circumstances though. Ugh!

I still need to be able to get the flute in and out, too 🙂 

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1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Time to break out that ignore function again.  🥳

Make sure you do it for all the devices your signed in on -- LOL!  I did it on my PC and laptop, but then was on my iPad and there she was again!  Not sure why, but I had to set the ignore on each of my devices.

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1 minute ago, mlktwins said:

Make sure you do it for all the devices your signed in on -- LOL!  I did it on my PC and laptop, but then was on my iPad and there she was again!  Not sure why, but I had to set the ignore on each of my devices.

Oh I had to do the same thing this week, good reminder!

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Gosh, I don't know. This are at an all time high in my state right now and I'm not fully vaccinated. I just got my first dose Monday. But my bigger concern is bringing it around dd (too young for vaccine). 

I am more or less a recovering germaphobe so I don't know if that helps at all. I'm very careful to avoid touching my mask or use hand sanitizer. Clean my hands before eating (seems like a no brainer but when we go through a drive thru I tell the kids to put on hand sanitizer before they eat). I don't really know how much control we actually have over any of this. I am always curious if we had a hidden camera show would we see different behaviors by those exposed vs not exposed (not in every single instance, but in many). I think back to the Myth Busters episode with the fake germs and they use a blacklight. I have been fortunate that I don't have to leave my house daily and do most of my work from home, but I do go out in public.  

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Things are continuing to get worse in my state. From a local paper compiling different reports.

From a medical professional at Oregon Health & Science University: “Our hospitals are full. Patients are boarding and being cared for in emergency departments when they should be admitted to hospital beds. Our ICUs are full. Our doctors and nurses are exhausted and rightfully frustrated because this crisis is avoidable. It is like watching a train wreck coming and knowing that there’s an opportunity to switch tracks, yet we feel helpless while we watch unnecessary loss of life.”

From a hospital in Gold Beach in Curry County, as reported by the Curry Coastal Pilot: “When the capacity issues started rearing its ugly head, we were finding we had to transfer patients into Reno, Nevada because the hospitals here in Oregon just cannot accept any more patients.”

From Medford, as reported by ijpr.org: Jackson County "requested the state provide 219 staff to help with hospital shortages, as well as a 300-bed field hospital where medical centers can divert patients that don’t need critical care."

The state reported a record number of Covid cases on Thursday and a record number of people hospitalized with conditions serious enough to warrant admission – 670 people.

 

Edited by Frances
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re universities testing all students in addition to requiring vaccination

3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Stanford requires all their students to test regardless of vaccination status starting August 15th.

https://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/faqs-covid-19-screening-program-students

”COVID-19 Testing Program for All Undergraduates

Who Should Be Testing? 

Please note: Effective 8/1/21, in order to monitor the prevalence of COVID-19 at Stanford and keep campus as safe as possible, students living on campus or coming to campus will be required to register and test weekly using Color Genomics beginning August 15, regardless of vaccination status.”

Carnegie Mellon will be doing this as well (I dunno what Color Genomics is -- CM will be doing "pooled" testing and only run labs for the individuals if positives turn up in the pool -- is that similar to Color Genomics?).

My entering freshman was PCR tested 1x (fall) or 2x (spring) a week all year last year at her boarding school so it is truly NBD, at all, for her.  She's just really really relieved to be able to do IRL classes.

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19 minutes ago, Frances said:

Things are continuing to get worse in my state. From a local paper compiling different reports.

From a medical professional at Oregon Health & Science University: “Our hospitals are full. Patients are boarding and being cared for in emergency departments when they should be admitted to hospital beds. Our ICUs are full. Our doctors and nurses are exhausted and rightfully frustrated because this crisis is avoidable. It is like watching a train wreck coming and knowing that there’s an opportunity to switch tracks, yet we feel helpless while we watch unnecessary loss of life.”

From a hospital in Gold Beach in Curry County, as reported by the Curry Coastal Pilot: “When the capacity issues started rearing its ugly head, we were finding we had to transfer patients into Reno, Nevada because the hospitals here in Oregon just cannot accept any more patients.”

From Medford, as reported by ijpr.org: Jackson County "requested the state provide 219 staff to help with hospital shortages, as well as a 300-bed field hospital where medical centers can divert patients that don’t need critical care."

The state reported a record number of Covid cases on Thursday and a record number of people hospitalized with conditions serious enough to warrant admission – 670 people.

 

What’s the vaccination rate in your state?

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21 minutes ago, Frances said:

Things are continuing to get worse in my state. From a local paper compiling different reports.

From a medical professional at Oregon Health & Science University: “Our hospitals are full. Patients are boarding and being cared for in emergency departments when they should be admitted to hospital beds. Our ICUs are full. Our doctors and nurses are exhausted and rightfully frustrated because this crisis is avoidable. It is like watching a train wreck coming and knowing that there’s an opportunity to switch tracks, yet we feel helpless while we watch unnecessary loss of life.”

From a hospital in Gold Beach in Curry County, as reported by the Curry Coastal Pilot: “When the capacity issues started rearing its ugly head, we were finding we had to transfer patients into Reno, Nevada because the hospitals here in Oregon just cannot accept any more patients.”

From Medford, as reported by ijpr.org: Jackson County "requested the state provide 219 staff to help with hospital shortages, as well as a 300-bed field hospital where medical centers can divert patients that don’t need critical care."

The state reported a record number of Covid cases on Thursday and a record number of people hospitalized with conditions serious enough to warrant admission – 670 people.

 

Jackson County is a disaster — they have more cases in a county with a population of 88K than Multnomah and Washington counties (Portland metro, total population 1.4 million) combined. But Jackson has 52% of eligible vaxed, vs 72-75% for Multnomah and Washington, plus very different attitudes towards masking, distancing, etc. The counties where the case rates (per capita) are exploding are nearly all rural counties with lower vax rates and resistance to mask mandates, e.g. Josephine Cty has the highest per capita current case rate (759/100K in the last 7 days) and only 45% of eligible vaxed. 

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7 minutes ago, popmom said:

What’s the vaccination rate in your state?

56.6% of Oregon is fully vaccinated, but the rate varies a lot by county. Multnomah County, where Portland is seated, has 66% fully vaccinated and 72.3% with at least one dose. The counties surrounding Multnomah are similarly situated and yet the major hospital systems in Portland are on overload. This is in part due to the hospital bed shortage and staff shortage that exist generally, but the delta variant is hitting the unvaccinated especially hard.  Two weeks ago Oregon was seeing 600 new positives a day, now we're at 3200.  Stats are showing that some 90%+ of covid hospitalizations are for unvaccinated persons. 

Josephine County, which is a hot mess right now has only 39.1% fully vaccinated.

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6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Jackson County is a disaster — they have more cases in a county with a population of 88K than Multnomah and Washington counties (Portland metro, total population 1.4 million) combined. But Jackson has 52% of eligible vaxed, vs 72-75% for Multnomah and Washington, plus very different attitudes towards masking, distancing, etc. The counties where the case rates (per capita) are exploding are nearly all rural counties with lower vax rates and resistance to mask mandates, e.g. Josephine Cty has the highest per capita current case rate (759/100K in the last 7 days) and only 45% of eligible vaxed. 

I’m in a middling county for vaccine rates, worse than the Portland metro area but better than the rural counties. We are purple, but all of our county commissioners are R. They are not happy about the Governor reinstating the indoor mask mandate and want control given back to them. But when they had control they did nothing. Multnomah in the Portland metro area was the only county to require indoor masking again when things started to go south. Thank goodness our Governor mandated masks for schools a few weeks ago, as one of our commissioners is also on the local school board. 

 

 

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