At what point would you lock down again?

[Longtime Lurker]

16 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We are back from closing on the house in Alabama and moving our daughter and her family into it. We were very careful while down there, and masked even though at closing, everyone in the room said they were vaccinated. We are now prepping for another hunker down for us. Our county is only 43% vaccinated, and it is obvious that the other 57% has no intention of doing it. Vaccine is being donated to other counties, expiring and being thrown away. Disgusting! So we expect hospitalizations to get put of control here, and kids to get very sick in droves when school begins in about three weeks. I am doing a big stock up this week for ourselves as well as the grandmothers, and giving notice for any gig playing I need lined up for fall.

I may as well just retire all together from the arts. It isn't going to survive another year of shutting down and losing funding, and it most certainly will end up being gutted yet again. My community fine arts program director job has already ended because of covid, and when the fur hits the fan yet again, schools, universities, professional groups will once again shut down performance arts and go back to whatever they can cobble together online.

Covid will be absolutely rampant here, like nothing we have seen before, because locally, parents send their kids to school sick all the damn time. Most elementary schools have to shut down for a week or two every flu season to stop spread so I predict it will ramp up exponentially, and then schools will go online, and then the nutters will get angry and protest, and the conservatives in our state legislature who have been doing every possible thing they can to undermine and gut our governor and public health will go freaking bananas and demand schools reopen, cue another round of some even more hideous variant, dead kids, and another massive wave of teacher retirement and younger educators leaving the profession. Good luck Michigan. I really don't know who is going to go into the profession after this! The local school district with a faculty of only 39, had 11 leave at the end of this year, many retirements, some just leaving the profession. That's almost a third! It was similar counts in numerous districts in the county. Just a floodgate. Yet, our clueless, selfish prick legislature passed a no mask mandate, and a bunch of other incredibly dangerous laws so Michigan is totally screwed if the people themselves do not en masse reject the idiocy. I have zero confidence in that. The bulk of the local population at least appears to want to play chicken with the grim reaper to see who blinks first.

As a fellow Michigander, I feel your pain. The summer started out so well here...

[Not_a_Number]

The numbers have actually stopped going up as fast here. Might be a response to everyone masking up again!

[freesia]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The numbers have actually stopped going up as fast here. Might be a response to everyone masking up again!

NY also has a pretty good vaccination rate plus some natural immunity. I am hopeful we will peak lower than before. Fingers crossed. 

[kokotg]

DH back to school today (for planning; no students until next week). No mask mandate in his school; my old nemesis, the superintendent, just modified the masks optional policy to make it masks mandatory in areas with an incidence rate of more than 100/100,000--which isn't DH's school...yet. I'm surprised/disappointed by the places that are going masks optional in schools, particularly elementary schools. Places like Massachusetts and Vermont--not just the usual suspects. I don't get approaching covid by figuring out a minimum level of safety and then deliberately doing less than that. We found out last year that schools WITH A LOT OF SAFETY PRECAUTIONS could open fairly safely (for students. Numbers were always higher than the overall community for teachers and staff, even in places with low numbers for students) and that when there were outbreaks it was because of a lack of such precautions. So...why not, like, try to prevent outbreaks? DH is vaccinated and teaching high school (and will mask even though he's not required to), which is keeping my rage level at a low simmer. If I had a kid I was planning to send to elementary school this year, I'd be LIVID. It was a total bait and switch; parents had to decide whether to do virtual or in person learning in the spring when there WAS a mask mandate, and they're not allowed to switch now. It's pull your kids out of school altogether or send them to the schools that are pretending there's no pandemic anymore. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, kokotg said:

We found out last year that schools WITH A LOT OF SAFETY PRECAUTIONS could open fairly safely (for students. Numbers were always higher than the overall community for teachers and staff, even in places with low numbers for students) and that when there were outbreaks it was because of a lack of such precautions.

Of course, who knows what the low student numbers even mean?? Students rarely test.

[kokotg]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Of course, who knows what the low student numbers even mean?? Students rarely test.

Absolutely. But particularly as we stare down another academic year dealing with this, I'm very sympathetic to the idea that we need to accept some trade offs with safety so that kids can go to school. But why not make the risks as low as you reasonably can?! Particularly since outbreaks and quarantines cause a whole lot more disruption than having to wear masks indoors.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kokotg said:

Absolutely. But particularly as we stare down another academic year dealing with this, I'm very sympathetic to the idea that we need to accept some trade offs with safety so that kids can go to school. But why not make the risks as low as you reasonably can?! Particularly since outbreaks and quarantines cause a whole lot more disruption than having to wear masks indoors.

Oh, agreed.

I mean, there’s no way in heck I’ll be sending my kids to indoor activities in the fall, but we’re in a different position than kids who aren’t homeschooled. And those kids deserve the safest possible environment.

[SeaConquest]

11 hours ago, wathe said:

I don't know.

There are lots of reasons why we (Ontario) might not be seeing the same efficacy drop that Isreal has:  The proportion of our population that was vaxed early is really low (we had very significant supply issues until mid-April), we aren't really re-opened yet, we still have lots of public health measures in place, masking compliance in indoor public spaces is pretty darn good, and vax rates are high (81% of 12+ have had their first dose, 70% fully vaxed).  It very well may be that we just haven't been tested yet.

Alberta is going to be our proving ground.  They're opening up quickly and dropping most public health measures.  We'll know in about a month or so, I guess.

I am reassured by the hospitalization and death data.  The confidence intervals are tighter.  

 

Yes, you cannot compare Israel to Canada. Or Canada to the US. Israel and the US both vaccinated much much earlier than Canada, so our efficacy is now waning. Pfizer's own data, released in a pre-print last week, showed a 6% drop in vaccine efficacy every 2 months. So, if Delta already starts off at a lower efficacy (88% for Pfizer), subtract 6% for every 2 months out from your last dose. So, that puts me at a 24% drop according to Pfizer (88% Delta efficacy - 24% drop since January = approximately 64% effective against infection, according to Pfizer's own data vs Israel's 19% at a much much larger sample size, so let's say it is somewhere between those two data points -- still pretty crappy). In many parts of the US, vaccination rates remain abysmal.

We also have let our public health measures lapse. In some parts of the US, those public health measures ARE PROHIBITED BY LAW from returning. And in many parts of the US, those public health measures will never return because there is a vocal minority that has made enforcement too difficult. This minority is basically holding our nation's healthcare system hostage because cancer, heart attacks, and traumas don't stop when the healthcare system is breaking. So, your risks of dying from something non-Covid related go up.

Healthcare workers are also quitting or retiring (I won't say in droves because I don't have anything other than anecdata), especially in these very hard-hit, low vax states where they have no unions, no mandatory ratios, no mandatory Covid disability pay, no meal/rest breaks, and the pay is crappy. They have had enough. I cannot begin to tell you the difference in nursing in a rural Texas ICU vs California ICUs. It is night and day how their nurses are treated. People just aren't in for a 4th wave that is *worse* than the other three. People just don't have it in them when they feel it was preventable. 

ETA: Recalculated Pfizer efficacy rate after I had coffee and could do basic math. 😆

Edited August 3, 2021 by SeaConquest

[mommyoffive]

Florida's Broward County school district reverses its mask mandate after funding threat from the governor - CNN

North Carolina charter school requires masks after at least 14 COVID-19 cases (wxii12.com)

 

UW-Madison considering campuswide mask mandate, expanded testing requirements | Higher education | madison.com

Edited August 3, 2021 by mommyoffive

[Dmmetler]

Shelby county health department will be meeting with the Memphis city council this afternoon about reinstating a mask mandate. 

[wathe]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:46 AM, SeaConquest said:

Yes, you cannot compare Israel to Canada. Or Canada to the US. Israel and the US both vaccinated much much earlier than Canada, so our efficacy is now waning. Pfizer's own data, released in a pre-print last week, showed a 6% drop in vaccine efficacy every 2 months. So, if Delta already starts off at a lower efficacy (88% for Pfizer), subtract 6% for every 2 months out from your last dose. So, that puts me at a 39% drop according to Pfizer (approximately 49% effective against infection, according to Pfizer's own data vs Israel's 19% at a much much larger sample size, so let's say it is somewhere between those two data points -- still pretty crappy). In many parts of the US, vaccination rates remain abysmal.

We also have let our public health measures lapse. In some parts of the US, those public health measures ARE PROHIBITED BY LAW from returning. And in many parts of the US, those public health measures will never return because there is a vocal minority that has made enforcement too difficult. This minority is basically holding our nation's healthcare system hostage because cancer, heart attacks, and traumas don't stop when the healthcare system is breaking. So, your risks of dying from something non-Covid related go up.

Healthcare workers are also quitting or retiring (I won't say in droves because I don't have anything other than anecdata), especially in these very hard-hit, low vax states where they have no unions, no mandatory ratios, no mandatory Covid disability pay, no meal/rest breaks, and the pay is crappy. They have had enough. I cannot begin to tell you the difference in nursing in a rural Texas ICU vs California ICUs. It is night and day how their nurses are treated. People just aren't in for a 4th wave that is *worse* than the other three. People just don't have it in them when they feel it was preventable. 

 

 

****Please do not quote this bit****. 

I hear you, loud and clear regarding burnout.     Our third wave in April had us within a hair's breadth of total system collapse - tent wards in parking lots, multi ICU transfers by ambulance bus without patient consent required, CCU and Endo suite converted to covid ICUs.   Nearish big children's teaching hospital converted its ICU take adults and filled it.   Our nearish to the GTA hospital took nearly 200 covid transfers.  We have similar (though perhaps attenuated) healthcare worker burnout leading to a staffing crisis.  

***deketed***

.  Staff are burnt out and cranky.  A fourth wave would destroy us.  I really feel for you in the US who are facing that reality.

 ****end of bit to please not quote****

All our nursing home patients and front line health workers were vaxed in January (and into Feb) though, including me, so we do have early vaxed cohorts who are relatively vulnerable.  I am going to choose to cling to the fact that we haven't seen any evidence of waning immunity yet, and reluctantly accept the fact that it might just be too early to know.  And be thankful that my province was "scared straight" by our April wave and is prudently reopening in a slow and cautious manner.  Maybe it's just a coping strategy and I'm failing to be objective, but I'm going to go with it.  'Cause I still have to show up to work every day and put on my caring face.

Edited August 7, 2021 by wathe

[melmichigan]

You can't compare Israel to the US because the US quit reporting non-hospitalized cases. We quit automatically testing vaccinated people.  We dropped the ball in a huge way on having valid real world information on efficacy and waning immunity.  16% for those from January is for infection, not hospitalization.  How many nursing home patients are having "just a runny nose" or "just allergies" but are not hospitalized and not tested?

Some of the Israel source information was on the main thread (if I remember correctly, to many threads on the same topic now).

Edited August 3, 2021 by melmichigan

[ktgrok]

So we finish our out quarantine and then schools start here. With no mask mandate, with no distancing, nothing. 

I'm thinking I need to stock up on food stuff early next week as best I can, paper towels, toilet paper, OTC meds, etc and just hunker down. 

Cause if we are at basically hospital capacity NOW, and a state of emergency NOW, BEFORE putting thousands of kids inches from each other all day, unvaccinated, unmasked....I can't imagine how much more we are going to see. I HATE THIS!!!

Give me kid vaccines! Give me boosters! I'll take a dozen, if need be, to make up for my fellow citizens doing nothing.  There are vaccines no one is using going to waste, let my 70 yr old mom with COPD have a booster!

Only good news is that kids will have brand new shiny vaccinations and be extra protected for a while, once they get vaccinated?

 

[wathe]

8 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

You can't compare Israel to the US because the US quit reporting non-hospitalized cases. We quit automatically testing vaccinated people.  We dropped the ball in a huge way on having valid real world information on efficacy and waning immunity.  16% for those from January is for infection, not hospitalization.  How many nursing home patients are having "just a runny nose" or "just allergies" but are not hospitalized and not tested?

Some of the Israel source information was on the main thread (if I remember correctly, to many threads on the same topic now).

Canada does have that data, at least up to July 14, and we aren't seeing spikes in populations that were vaxed early..  Testing for symptomatic nursing home residents remains assertive. Though there are other reasons why we might not be seeing it yet (still largely have public health precautions in place and numbers are relatively low at this time).  

[Jean in Newcastle]

10 minutes ago, wathe said:

Canada does have that data, at least up to July 14, and we aren't seeing spikes in populations that were vaxed early..  Testing for symptomatic nursing home residents remains assertive. Though there are other reasons why we might not be seeing it yet (still largely have public health precautions in place and numbers are relatively low at this time).  

Our nursing homes were the first hit here in the US (at least that they knew about initially).  They are testing here too (I googled that last night) and there are no spikes reported here either.  But we do have an over 70% vaccination rate in our county which does provide some protection overall as well. 

[ktgrok]

With only 2% positivity, and her being able to be vaccinated in a few months, I'd likely start her. 

Here...no. No way. 

[Arcadia]

Nursing home data. There are 3235 entries in the spreadsheet.

https://data.cms.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/test_positivity_rates_0.xlsx

"COVID-19 Viral (NAAT) Laboratory 14-Day Test Positivity Rates, by US County

Test Positivity Classification:Counties with test percent positivity <5.0% or with <20 tests in past 14 days: Green; test percent positivity ≥5.0% to ≤10.0% or with <500 tests and <2000 tests/100k and >10% positivity over 14 days: Yellow; >10.0% and not meeting the criteria for “Green” or “Yellow”: Red. Gray represents no data reported. Test positivity is rounded to the nearest tenth of a percent before classifying.

...

Percent Positive and Tests in prior 14 days:Data from July 14-July 27

County	FIPS	State	FEMA Region	Population	NCHS Urban Rural Classification	Tests in prior 14 days	14-day test rate	Percent Positivity in prior 14 days	Test Positivity Classification - 14 days
Adair County, OK	40001	OK	6	22,194	Non-core	213	960	73.2%	Yellow
Bryan County, OK	40013	OK	6	47,995	Micropolitan	310	646	66.1%	Yellow
Sheridan County, NE	31161	NE	7	5,246	Non-core	32	610	53.1%	Yellow
Cherokee County, OK	40021	OK	6	48,657	Micropolitan	434	892	51.6%	Yellow
Pushmataha County, OK	40127	OK	6	11,096	Non-core	43	388	51.2%	Yellow
Morrill County, NE	31123	NE	7	4,642	Non-core	53	1,142	50.9%	Yellow
Haskell County, OK	40061	OK	6	12,627	Non-core	97	768	50.5%	Yellow
Evans County, GA	13109	GA	4	10,654	Non-core	44	413	50.0%	Yellow
Cheyenne County, NE	31033	NE	7	8,910	Non-core	77	864	49.4%	Yellow
Bourbon County, KS	20011	KS	7	14,534	Non-core	349	2,401	47.3%	Red

"

 

[AmandaVT]

3 hours ago, kokotg said:

I'm surprised/disappointed by the places that are going masks optional in schools, particularly elementary schools. Places like Massachusetts and Vermont--not just the usual suspects. I don't get approaching covid by figuring out a minimum level of safety and then deliberately doing less than that. We found out last year that schools WITH A LOT OF SAFETY PRECAUTIONS could open fairly safely (for students. Numbers were always higher than the overall community for teachers and staff, even in places with low numbers for students) and that when there were outbreaks it was because of a lack of such precautions. So...why not, like, try to prevent outbreaks? 

Vermont just released their guidelines about an hour ago - masks will be required for everyone to start the school year. If/when a school gets to 80% of the students/staff vaccinated, masks can become optional for the vaccinated individuals. People that aren't yet vaccinated will still have to wear masks.

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

24 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

DD is supposed to start school a week from tomorrow. Masks are "highly recommended but optional" at school which translates to no masks. The mother of DD's best friend says she's going to try to force her daughter to wear a mask in school. I just don't see it happening. These are 11 YO girls. 

I'm getting cold feet about school. DH is very insistent that DD needs to go back to school and DD is very excited about returning to school to see her friends. 

DH and I are fully vaxxed. DD turns 12 in November. 

What would you do in my shoes? 

Ugh. I have NO idea what I'd do. Are your DD and her best friend in the same classes? Maybe they could mask together... 

[kokotg]

7 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

Vermont just released their guidelines about an hour ago - masks will be required for everyone to start the school year. If/when a school gets to 80% of the students/staff vaccinated, masks can become optional for the vaccinated individuals. People that aren't yet vaccinated will still have to wear masks.

 

 

oh good! I think it was Andy Slavitt that listed Vermont as a state that wasn't allowing mask mandates the other day, but then in one of the responses someone pointed out that was an old policy and likely to change.

[freesia]

31 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

DD is supposed to start school a week from tomorrow. Masks are "highly recommended but optional" at school which translates to no masks. The mother of DD's best friend says she's going to try to force her daughter to wear a mask in school. I just don't see it happening. These are 11 YO girls. 

I'm getting cold feet about school. DH is very insistent that DD needs to go back to school and DD is very excited about returning to school to see her friends. 

DH and I are fully vaxxed. DD turns 12 in November. 

What would you do in my shoes? 

 

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

With only 2% positivity, and her being able to be vaccinated in a few months, I'd likely start her. 

Here...no. No way. 

In your shoes I would send her.  I would ask her to mask.  If Ktgrok is right and you have a 2% positivity, I think the overall risk is pretty low (for her getting it, but more importantly for severe illness.)  I am at the point where I do think the mental health of our middle school/high school kids warrant erring on the side of them being with other kids when the risk of severe illness is low.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

 

In your shoes I would send her.  I would ask her to mask.  If Ktgrok is right and you have a 2% positivity, I think the overall risk is pretty low (for her getting it, but more importantly for severe illness.)  I am at the point where I do think the mental health of our middle school/high school kids warrant erring on the side of them being with other kids when the risk of severe illness is low.

Also, if she is in a middle school, in an area with high vaccination, a large number of students should be vaccinated - since the 7th and 8th graders will be old enough for vaccination already. 

If she's in a K-8 school with a lot of mixing, or a k-6 school (that's how mine was, back in the day, with 7th and 8th in the JR High), that calculus is a bit different. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by ktgrok

[Lady Florida.]

On 7/31/2021 at 3:06 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Looks like they like Happy Masks for kids:

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-kids-face-masks/

I have 3 Happy Masks that I rotate. I also have some Powecom KN95 disposable masks that were on the government approved list (I think the link was in one of the threads here last year). Dh and Ds both have to wear masks at work and sometimes it's easier to grab a disposable than making sure you have a clean reusable mask. I was thinking about switching to the KN95 too until I read that my Happy Masks are effective.

Our grandsons wear Happy Masks. The 9yo has a big head/face and the adult medium actually fits him better than the children's mask. the 7yo wears a children's Happy Mask. 

[AmandaVT]

6 minutes ago, kokotg said:

oh good! I think it was Andy Slavitt that listed Vermont as a state that wasn't allowing mask mandates the other day, but then in one of the responses someone pointed out that was an old policy and likely to change.

Yeah, they were holding off until the first week of August to see what the modeling is going to look like going forward. So far, the state guidance has been very data driven. Our governor is also really big on "do x, y, and z and there won't be as many restrictions." So, the modeling is saying that cases will peak again in about 4-5 weeks (right when school goes back into session), so they want everyone to mask to start and then when schools get to 80% vaccinated, the vaccinated people can drop masks. I think there will be a fair number of grumpy people because the state has a very high vaccination rate already, but I'm happy about it. I was planning to mask regardless.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I have 3 Happy Masks that I rotate. I also have some Powecom KN95 disposable masks that were on the government approved list (I think the link was in one of the threads here last year). Dh and Ds both have to wear masks at work and sometimes it's easier to grab a disposable than making sure you have a clean reusable mask. I was thinking about switching to the KN95 too until I read that my Happy Masks are effective.

Our grandsons wear Happy Masks. The 9yo has a big head/face and the adult medium actually fits him better than the children's mask. the 7yo wears a children's Happy Mask. 

Good to know! My kids have happy masks and disposable KF94 ones. I like disposable for really germy places, or for getting a hair cut so you don't end up with little hairs all in the mask, lol. 

I also personally think at least some people get a better fit with KF94 boat style. I know my 11 yr old does - her glasses fog up with happy mask but not the KF94 disposable. 

[KSera]

4 hours ago, kokotg said:

It was a total bait and switch; parents had to decide whether to do virtual or in person learning in the spring when there WAS a mask mandate, and they're not allowed to switch now.

I find this so unfair. We had this happen to us in  a different situation where we paid for something under the understanding that particular guidelines were in place, and then they changed those right before hand and we were no longer comfortable with the situation.

16 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I also personally think at least some people get a better fit with KF94 boat style. I know my 11 yr old does - her glasses fog up with happy mask but not the KF94 disposable. 

This is our experience. We don’t get tight enough seals over the bridge of the nose with the Happy Mask. I should insert my own wire, as that would probably fix it, but we have so many KF94s and they’re enough more comfortable that I don’t know what situation we’d use the Happy Mask in (outside in cold weather, maybe?). I do prefer the look of a cloth mask, but I can’t really make fashion the deciding factor 😉. 

[prairiewindmomma]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

I find this so unfair. We had this happen to us in  a different situation where we paid for something under the understanding that particular guidelines were in place, and then they changed those right before hand and we were no longer comfortable with the situation.

This is our experience. We don’t get tight enough seals over the bridge of the nose with the Happy Mask. I should insert my own wire, as that would probably fix it, but we have so many KF94s and they’re enough more comfortable that I don’t know what situation we’d use the Happy Mask in (outside in cold weather, maybe?). I do prefer the look of a cloth mask, but I can’t really make fashion the deciding factor 😉. 

We bought some adhesive metal strips from Amazon and have been able to adjust fit that way better than inserting a wire. The adhesive aluminum strips are single use only, but we get something like 200 of them for $5-7.

[Lady Florida.]

Florida leads the nation in children hospitalized with Covid-19. 😟 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/08/02/florida-leads-the-nation-in-kids-hospitalized-for-covid/

The talk about a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" is aimed at those who refuse to get vaccinated and I get that. However, when we do that we forget that the unvaccinated includes all children under 12, cancer patients, people with certain autoimmune diseases, and anyone else who can't get vaccinated for legitimate reasons. I think we need to stop making that phrase sound shameful or change it to something that clarifies it's about those who choose to be unvaccinated. Saying pandemic of the unvaccinated as though it's shameful makes people forget about all those, especially children, who are included in that pandemic.

On 7/31/2021 at 3:56 PM, mommyoffive said:

We have only gotten these ones

Face Masks | Face Coverings | Bona Fide Masks™

I think this is where I found the Powecom ones I mentioned in my previous post. We're getting low so I'm going to look and see what else they have.

On 7/31/2021 at 7:11 PM, DawnM said:

DH says he thinks we should stop attending church in person for a while.   I agree, although I go back to school/work in a couple of weeks and our district has decided to open wide up and masks are optional.

OY

There have been a lot of local teachers who were close to retirement who just said the he!! with it, and took early retirement. I don't blame them. Protecting our children is important but so is protecting those who choose to teach other people's children (as well as the staff, administrators, etc.). I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

On 8/1/2021 at 4:06 PM, whitestavern said:

Disney is requiring masks again so maybe Universal is as well? 

At this point Universal is only "encouraging" masks indoors regardless of vaccination status. I'm on a Universal passholders Facebook group and as you might expect it's a pretty contentious subject.

19 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I physically went into Walmart today. Didn’t exactly want to, but I found out they closed their curbside service due to lack of staff.

Ugh. So far my local Walmart is still going strong with curbside pickup. I've been pleasantly surprised at how efficient that service has been though they started it before the pandemic so I guess they already had some of it in place and just had to ramp it up. 

15 hours ago, SDMomof3 said:

I am hoping for boosters soon. Come on CDC. 

From a few things I read it seems the thinking at this point is to get more people vaccinated with their first two (or one if J&J) shots and the discussion about boosters takes away from the discussion about getting vaccinated in the first place. Not saying I agree with it but I believe that's the thinking behind it.

[Lady Florida.]

I had started to feel comfortable going out without my mask and eating in restaurants indoors. It's way too hot, humid, and often rainy to eat outside now anyway. I only slightly expanded my social contact. We had been seeing only dss and family, one cousin of mine, plus my niece and her family who live nearby. We started tentatively expanding social contact.

Ds plays Dungeons and Dragons and though they had been meeting online they went back to in-person late spring. They decided last week to go back to virtual meetings. My small book club (7 if everyone comes, which is rare) started meeting, at first outside at a park. We met twice inside at a restaurant once all of us got vaccinated. We were supposed to meet last night but we all agreed we shouldn't. We're on hold hoping September will be better. I've seen 3 close friends a few times since March 2020, always in a social distancing situation.

We've started wearing masks everywhere again and stopped going out to restaurants. We're still seeing the same family members and I'll be hosting a game night with those 3 friends tomorrow night (we're all vaccinated as are all our eligible live-in family members). 

We never fully opened ourselves up again and though we're not pulling back completely we're back to wearing masks, as well as limiting what we do and where we go.

[popmom]

5 hours ago, kokotg said:

DH back to school today (for planning; no students until next week). No mask mandate in his school; my old nemesis, the superintendent, just modified the masks optional policy to make it masks mandatory in areas with an incidence rate of more than 100/100,000--which isn't DH's school...yet. I'm surprised/disappointed by the places that are going masks optional in schools, particularly elementary schools. Places like Massachusetts and Vermont--not just the usual suspects. I don't get approaching covid by figuring out a minimum level of safety and then deliberately doing less than that. We found out last year that schools WITH A LOT OF SAFETY PRECAUTIONS could open fairly safely (for students. Numbers were always higher than the overall community for teachers and staff, even in places with low numbers for students) and that when there were outbreaks it was because of a lack of such precautions. So...why not, like, try to prevent outbreaks? DH is vaccinated and teaching high school (and will mask even though he's not required to), which is keeping my rage level at a low simmer. If I had a kid I was planning to send to elementary school this year, I'd be LIVID. It was a total bait and switch; parents had to decide whether to do virtual or in person learning in the spring when there WAS a mask mandate, and they're not allowed to switch now. It's pull your kids out of school altogether or send them to the schools that are pretending there's no pandemic anymore. 

In the schools around here, parents can decide at any time to go virtual. My friend's dd was a senior last year. She started out "in person". After being quarantined for the 3rd time, she opted to go virtual. Mid semester.

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

In the schools around here, parents can decide at any time to go virtual. My friend's dd was a senior last year. She started out "in person". After being quarantined for the 3rd time, she opted to go virtual. Mid semester.

Yeah, virtual just won't work here. We have spent hundreds of dollars with a mifi/attenae set up to be able to get fast, reliable internet. Most don't have that. And our town internet is HORRIBLE. The internet IN TOWN went out for several days last week. There is only one cable internet provider, so no competition. Internet needs to be a utility that is guaranteed like water and electricity these days. 

Hope that isn't too negative.  🙂  Back to happy threads.

[kokotg]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

In the schools around here, parents can decide at any time to go virtual. My friend's dd was a senior last year. She started out "in person". After being quarantined for the 3rd time, she opted to go virtual. Mid semester.

That was true here last year, but not this year. But last year they had teachers teaching online and in person at the same time, so it didn't really matter, staffing-wise, how many kids did which thing. This year the virtual is all separate (which is good; DH didn't want another year of dealing with the split classes), so it won't work the same way. 

[Carrie12345]

So, one of the things I had gone back to was the FD support committee. We had pretty much shut down for a full year, our more at-risk members still haven’t returned, and we’re down to me, a friend who doesn’t really want to be on the committee, and two people who are brand spanking new. So I went back.

Now I’m supposed to go to a meeting tonight (I’m making it outdoors) and work on a big, indoor fundraiser we do jointly with another organization, which is supposed to be at the end of September. I don’t know how I’m supposed to work on this with no idea what September is going to look like. Even if it stays as is, I don’t want to be indoors with a whole bunch of people, with or without masks, and will certainly not have my 10yo there, but can’t leave him home alone. So it’s all nuts.

(We’re also supposed to be planning two fall events!)

[Faith-manor]

37 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, virtual just won't work here. We have spent hundreds of dollars with a mifi/attenae set up to be able to get fast, reliable internet. Most don't have that. And our town internet is HORRIBLE. The internet IN TOWN went out for several days last week. There is only one cable internet provider, so no competition. Internet needs to be a utility that is guaranteed like water and electricity these days. 

Hope that isn't too negative.  🙂  Back to happy threads.

I 100% agree that as a society now dependent on internet, it needs to be guaranteed and regulated! Virtual was a disaster here in many places due to a variety of reasons, but poor internet service in rural areas was one of them.

[ktgrok]

 

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

We bought some adhesive metal strips from Amazon and have been able to adjust fit that way better than inserting a wire. The adhesive aluminum strips are single use only, but we get something like 200 of them for $5-7.

link? I know DD would like to wear her cuter happy mask sometimes, if we can make it fit. 

[ktgrok]

I will say the ONLY thing Florida has done right was extend registration for the virtual option. Given what is going on, I can't imagine sending a kid too young to vaccinate in person if I didn't need the childcare. I know people who are..but ugh. 

[prairiewindmomma]

32 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

link? I know DD would like to wear her cuter happy mask sometimes, if we can make it fit. 

We've purchased from a few different companies.  Our favorite are these: https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Strips-Bridge-Bracket-Adhesive/dp/B087MZ5TGH/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=mask+nose+strip&qid=1628026137&sr=8-7

This style is really difficult to peel the backs off of:

https://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Aluminum-Protector-Adjustable-Accessories/dp/B08DLZJW21/ref=pd_sbs_3/138-1556645-4322062?pd_rd_w=8xfcZ&pf_rd_p=0f56f70f-21e6-4d11-bb4a-bcdb928a3c5a&pf_rd_r=0KCFA5RG4GTWG9CDH14T&pd_rd_r=ecb984c9-0c82-4381-a9c8-732413e2c7c6&pd_rd_wg=PTglv&pd_rd_i=B08DLZJW21&psc=1

 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

We bought some adhesive metal strips from Amazon and have been able to adjust fit that way better than inserting a wire. The adhesive aluminum strips are single use only, but we get something like 200 of them for $5-7.

That's true. I actually have some from when I was making masks. They were faster that the wire when I ramped up to making masks for extended family (though I still put them in a casing rather than adhering them). Have you found them to stay stuck? I stuck a couple on some commercial cloth masks we had, but they would come unpeeled on one side all the time. My preference is still the copper wire I started out using. I can make the nose wire longer and it's heavy gauge and can make an excellent molded seal. (That's all moot because I have abandoned the (cuter) cloth masks in favor of KF94s for now.)

2 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

The talk about a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" is aimed at those who refuse to get vaccinated and I get that. However, when we do that we forget that the unvaccinated includes all children under 12, cancer patients, people with certain autoimmune diseases, and anyone else who can't get vaccinated for legitimate reasons. I think we need to stop making that phrase sound shameful or change it to something that clarifies it's about those who choose to be unvaccinated. Saying pandemic of the unvaccinated as though it's shameful makes people forget about all those, especially children, who are included in that pandemic.

Interesting. I guess I haven't been hearing that phrase the same way. I have heard it as just meaning that the pandemic is now one of unvaccinated people, whatever the reason they are unvaccinated--too young, immune compromised, too frail, or by choice. I posted something yesterday from Ashish Jha where he specifically made the point that all children under 12 are part of this current pandemic of the unvaccinated.

[Katy]

4 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

DD is supposed to start school a week from tomorrow. Masks are "highly recommended but optional" at school which translates to no masks. The mother of DD's best friend says she's going to try to force her daughter to wear a mask in school. I just don't see it happening. These are 11 YO girls. 

I'm getting cold feet about school. DH is very insistent that DD needs to go back to school and DD is very excited about returning to school to see her friends. 

DH and I are fully vaxxed. DD turns 12 in November. 

What would you do in my shoes? 

I’d keep her home until January.  
 

ETA: because of stories like this, attributed to Delta: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/world/asia/children-deaths-virus-indonesia.amp.html

Edited August 3, 2021 by Katy

[mommyoffive]

54 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The positivity rate is actually 10.2% in our county as of today. 

Not saying to do this.  But I would keep her home until she can be fully vaccinated and then I don't know.  High positivity in a school that doesn't mask?  I wouldn't probably send my kid there until this was way more under control. 

Maybe if she masked?  Although I don't know if that would be enough if not everyone was doing it. 

I am glad she was able to go to camp and get some good social time.  I think it is so easy to say to keep the younger kids home.  I have cried many times just wishing my kids were toddlers during this time.  They can stay home and be happy playing trains.  The older kids are missing out on so much by not being around other kids their age.  We just started back to face to face things less than a month ago.  Now this surge.  I just made the choice to have my kids go back to ballet and perform in a show indoors.  I am freaked the hell out.  The school is doing a lot to try to make it safer.  My older kids need to be around people and this is their passion.  I am regretting that they are into indoor activities.  I know the much safer thing to do is to keep them home.  But they are suffering doing that too.  Their mental health.  Normal things teens should be doing.  All their friendships.  I wanted to say no so badly, but I know that they need some normal too.  

So I think you have to make a personal and family choice here.  I think in the last 2 weeks I have come to the thought that I don't think we will be able to avoid covid anymore.  We have been soooo careful for so long and thought once we got the vaccine our chances would go down so much.  With Delta I don't think that we will be able to avoid it.  At some point I think we will get it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

That's true. I actually have some from when I was making masks. They were faster that the wire when I ramped up to making masks for extended family (though I still put them in a casing rather than adhering them). Have you found them to stay stuck? I stuck a couple on some commercial cloth masks we had, but they would come unpeeled on one side all the time. My preference is still the copper wire I started out using. I can make the nose wire longer and it's heavy gauge and can make an excellent molded seal. (That's all moot because I have abandoned the (cuter) cloth masks in favor of KF94s for now.)

 

They really are single use only, but they stay stuck on the entire day really well. They just don't hold up to a wash cycle.

I threaded long wires through the masks I initially made, and we found that they eventually twist into a bumpy mess and work their way out the side of the mask. 

I'm in KF94s, but the kids are in surgical topped with cloth masks. Our initial cloth masks are pretty thrashed after 18 months of heavy use, so we just bought a ton of Old Navy masks which don't have nose wires. The surgical do, and then we use the strips with the cloth since everyone is in glasses. 

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I have cried many times just wishing my kids were toddlers during this time.  They can stay home and be happy playing trains. 

yes and know. DD4 developed separation anxiety from no one ever leaving. And yesterday she showed me her "friend", Pinky. Pinky is a balloon she drew a face on that she talks to and plays with. 

Not going to lie, all I could think was that movie with Tom Hanks and the ball with a face on it. Ugh. 

At least my older ones can talk to people online. 

[mommyoffive]

Just now, ktgrok said:

yes and know. DD4 developed separation anxiety from no one ever leaving. And yesterday she showed me her "friend", Pinky. Pinky is a balloon she drew a face on that she talks to and plays with. 

Not going to lie, all I could think was that movie with Tom Hanks and the ball with a face on it. Ugh. 

At least my older ones can talk to people online. 

Yeah I do have a 5 year old so I see those things too.  I posted in some thread that she woke up one day crying asking if the virus was going to last forever.  Yesterday she came down and asked "is there an air quality advisory today?"   She doesn't remember people that she used to know.  And gets sad that we can't see family hardly at all.  I am sad to know that we probably won't be seeing them this holiday season.   When she got to go to an in-person ballet class she told me right after "I want to go back to this life."  It is hard on her too.  But for sure harder for my teens.  

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And yesterday she showed me her "friend", Pinky. Pinky is a balloon she drew a face on that she talks to and plays with. 

Awww, if it makes you feel better, that would be par for the course with all my kids, and only the littlest would I be able to blame it on the pandemic 😉. Hopefully her older siblings play with her some? We have similar sibling spacing. This would have been harder had my younger ones not had eachother. Does she have any zoom things she does? Surprisingly, mine has really enjoyed her once a week zoom with a few other kids her age and we facetime with cousins and such.

[Lecka]

11 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

. And yesterday she showed me her "friend", Pinky. Pinky is a balloon she drew a face on that she talks to and plays with. 

My son did this with a squash when he was that age -- it was so cute.  But not really the same because he also got to go to pre-school 😞

[ktgrok]

My state senator apparantly just said, when asked about Florida having record hospitalizations and cases, that the biggest problem facing Florida is actually inflation. 

My husband is turning colors he's so angry. 

He just tweeted that he didn't spend a day building a negative pressure isolation unit in our house because our oldest tested positive for inflation. (more to the tweet, but it was foul language I think). 

My response was to suggest violence. Sigh. 

For those wondering, Rick Scott is the one I said was a villain from a Buffy the Vampire episode. 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Re: separation anxiety, I am regularly planning coffee runs and day trips with my husband so that my kids are used to me leaving. 

I think we're going to get it. I think it will happen in the first three months of the older three kids being in school & university. I've been in a huge funk about it for a couple of weeks now, but after a lot of coffee and talking, I think we will just be at peace knowing that we did what we reasonably could and as this is going to be our endemic ever after, we have to balance it all. I literally have been running down our isolation at home plan for sick people this week and rounding out supplies. I still need to get new nebulizer tubing & a few other things.  (If I over prep, it means we'll just be asymptomatic, right?!!)

 

[Not_a_Number]

30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My state senator apparantly just said, when asked about Florida having record hospitalizations and cases, that the biggest problem facing Florida is actually inflation. 

My husband is turning colors he's so angry. 

He just tweeted that he didn't spend a day building a negative pressure isolation unit in our house because our oldest tested positive for inflation. (more to the tweet, but it was foul language I think). 

My response was to suggest violence. Sigh. 

For those wondering, Rick Scott is the one I said was a villain from a Buffy the Vampire episode. 

 

Lol. I definitely see the resemblance! 

[freesia]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Re: separation anxiety, I am regularly planning coffee runs and day trips with my husband so that my kids are used to me leaving. 

I think we're going to get it. I think it will happen in the first three months of the older three kids being in school & university. I've been in a huge funk about it for a couple of weeks now, but after a lot of coffee and talking, I think we will just be at peace knowing that we did what we reasonably could and as this is going to be our endemic ever after, we have to balance it all. I literally have been running down our isolation at home plan for sick people this week and rounding out supplies. I still need to get new nebulizer tubing & a few other things.  (If I over prep, it means we'll just be asymptomatic, right?!!)

 

This is where I am, too.  I just want to get dd and ds to college (particularly dd, bc ds can do it virtually and then go.)  If we end up in a situation like Florida i will probably stay home in order to reduce spread, but I think we as a family have done what we can and the higher risk to my youngest 2 is in staying home right now tbh.  They did great, but were fraying. 

[Corraleno]

20 hours ago, SDMomof3 said:

I am hoping for boosters soon. Come on CDC. 

I recently read an interview discussing some of the key differences between an EUA and full approval, and one of the questions was about boosters. Under an EUA, medical providers may only use the substance (vaccine, medication, whatever) *exactly* as specified in the EUA. But once it's fully approved, those restrictions no longer apply and doctors can use it "off label" — including giving boosters to patients they feel would benefit.

My impression from other things I've read is that if Pfizer tweaks their vaccine specifically for Delta, for example, they would need to go through an expedited approval process, but once the original vaccine is fully approved, then doctors are free to use additional doses of that as boosters with no further action by the FDA. So it may be possible to get boosters of the original shot (with a doctor's approval) within 6-8 weeks.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Corraleno