At what point would you lock down again?

[Wheres Toto]

Some of you with such low hospital/ICU capacity, how populated are your counties?   We have 240 ICU beds in my county of 500,000.    We never hit hospital overwhelm even with our initial big surge, but we are in between one much more populated county with another 500-600 ICU beds and one much less populated county with another 60 ICU beds.  I'm wondering if our situation is that unusual (and why it would be). 

Although looking at old articles, we had a few smaller hospitals hit diverge status, but it looks like the bigger hospitals aggressively added beds last April (one of which is in my county):  "New Jersey’s 71 acute-care hospitals have added 60% more beds and doubled the number of critical care beds from just under 2,000 to 4,000 in about three weeks."

[Faith-manor]

54 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

The virus does not care. It will mutate into Delta Plus independently right here in the US (it has been known to happen with other strains). The ICU's are overflowing. People like this are going around without masks and without vaccines and Delta is more infectious than other variants. We are approaching 650K deaths in a span of 2 years. Connecting the dots is rather easy for a logical person.

I really hope that the health care workers in those areas don't quit and find jobs in other parts of the country! That would spell disaster for the other people living in those parts.

I could see it though. If some state that has a more cooperative population offered good money to move, I can absolutely see it happening, flood of healthcare workers wooed to the New England states for instance.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Wheres Toto said:

Some of you with such low hospital/ICU capacity, how populated are your counties?   We have 240 ICU beds in my county of 500,000.    We never hit hospital overwhelm even with our initial big surge, but we are in between one much more populated county with another 500-600 ICU beds and one much less populated county with another 60 ICU beds.  I'm wondering if our situation is that unusual (and why it would be). 

Although looking at old articles, we had a few smaller hospitals hit diverge status, but it looks like the bigger hospitals aggressively added beds last April (one of which is in my county):  "New Jersey’s 71 acute-care hospitals have added 60% more beds and doubled the number of critical care beds from just under 2,000 to 4,000 in about three weeks."

We have no ICU beds in my county. We have one ER, level IV. We call it the stitch and ditch. Unless medics need the helipad there, they just drive past and head to the city. It is manned by family docs with no trauma experience. They don't even have a pediatric intubation kit. So all of our patients in need of ICU are turfed to city hospitals which so completely overwhelms them that they beg and plead for the locals to stop screwing around, get vaxed, wear the damn mask, stop partying. And it falls on deaf ears. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

19 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

Some of you with such low hospital/ICU capacity, how populated are your counties?   We have 240 ICU beds in my county of 500,000.    We never hit hospital overwhelm even with our initial big surge, but we are in between one much more populated county with another 500-600 ICU beds and one much less populated county with another 60 ICU beds.  I'm wondering if our situation is that unusual (and why it would be). 

Although looking at old articles, we had a few smaller hospitals hit diverge status, but it looks like the bigger hospitals aggressively added beds last April (one of which is in my county):  "New Jersey’s 71 acute-care hospitals have added 60% more beds and doubled the number of critical care beds from just under 2,000 to 4,000 in about three weeks."

Our hospitals in the greater metropolitan area would be fine. But smaller overwhelmed hospitals are transporting patients up to 600 miles away. Including from the next state. And those transfers are starting to come our way. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Jean in Newcastle
Wrong preposition

[Faith-manor]

I think that at some point, some states are going to have to consider closing borders to others. This piece meal, states rights, approach to a national emergency is not working which may force states that choose another shut down to have to put national guard at the borders to keep everyone from border states out especially if those states are doing nothing to stem the tide. That should be good and ugly. 😭

[regentrude]

19 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

Some of you with such low hospital/ICU capacity, how populated are your counties?   We have 240 ICU beds in my county of 500,000.  

We have 18 ICU beds in a county of 40,000 people. Our hospital has received transfer patients from the large cities 100 miles away. Currently at capacity, both inpatient and ICU.
There are counties in my state that have zero ICU beds, for example our two neighboring counties with 10,000 and 15,000 inhabitants, respectively.

Edited August 11, 2021 by regentrude

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

This is the most interesting thing to me. The people who are acting most like pre-WW2 German nationalists are the ones accusing everyone else of acting like pre-WW2 German nationalists. 
 

Mind boggled.

(I’ll stop here because I’ll probably get called for an appeal-to-Hitler sort of comment, but really… And sincerely, no offense intended to our dear boardies of German descent.)

I keep triggering Godwin's law myself... mostly not out loud, but the comparisons tend to write themselves 😕 . 

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I think that at some point, some states are going to have to consider closing borders to others. This piece meal, states rights, approach to a national emergency is not working which may force states that choose another shut down to have to put national guard at the borders to keep everyone from border states out especially if those states are doing nothing to stem the tide. That should be good and ugly. 😭

I’m pretty sure that is unconstitutional 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

4 hours ago, kokotg said:

Well, if THESE people were ready to get rid of schools, they'd already be homeschooling. Clearly they don't think they can do it themselves or they wouldn't need to send my husband threatening e-mails about how HE'S doing it all wrong. This particular group is all wealthy white parents who paid a lot for their houses and expect a highly ranked school system that bends to their will. And they're not used to not getting their way. 

We’re moving in two weeks from a very blue collar area to a much wealthier school district.  I’ve been watching the mask arguments at the new school and this is exactly what I’m seeing as well.  Highly educated, intelligent, wealthy parents who expect the school district to bend to their will.  It disturbs me for a lot of reasons, Covid being one.

[rebcoola]

Our area now has the dubious honor of having the county with the highest Covid rate on the west coast.    

We have 80 people in hospital.  We have  about 500 beds total 70 icu beds for 300k population.  They are canceling surgeries and sending people to other hospitals which are typically  3-5hrs away. 

Our one pro mask school board member just lost the primary. Hopefully the governor sticks to his statewide mandate.  If he gives control to local school board or health department masks will be gone in hours.

[JennyD]

Re the video from Franklin, TN, local news is now reporting that one of the guys threatening the doctor is a former-musician-turned-diamond-dealer-turned-antimask-activist who -- wait for it -- doesn't even have children. The other is a Christian musician whose previous brief moment of fame was being fired ON STAGE by Kelly Clarkson in 2005 after he made a rude gesture to the audience.

 

[lewelma]

3 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Never thought I’d say this, but I’ve never been so ready for a line to be drawn down the middle and just let each camp have their own way on their own side of the line.

I have wondered this. Why not have masking and nonmasking schools? The nonmasking school parents will soon recognize their error in judgement. 

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I have wondered this. Why not have masking and nonmasking schools? The nonmasking school parents will soon recognize their error in judgement. 

Probably no where near enough teachers to staff them. Teachers mostly don't want to be in a class of unmasked kids. 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Probably no where near enough teachers to staff them. Teachers mostly don't want to be in a class of unmasked kids. 

Well, there you go. Set up schools with and without masks, and quickly find out that there is no one to staff the unmasked schools. 

My sister is a teacher in KY. I so know the deep frustration and betrayal that teachers feel. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, lewelma said:

Well, there you go. Set up schools with and without masks, and quickly find out that there is no one to staff the unmasked schools. 

My sister is a teacher in KY. I so know the deep frustration and betrayal that teachers feel. 

Yup, my sister is a principal. It's maddening. 

And my church has mask optional sunday school and can't even staff that. 

[lewelma]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Yup, my sister is a principal. It's maddening. 

And my church has mask optional sunday school and can't even staff that. 

My sister suffered last year. I've told the stories of her peeing in a cup in her office and drinking her lunch through a straw so she didn't have to remove her mask.  Luckily, this year all of her students are vaccinated (she is at a private school), but she still does not know if they will require masks.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

My sister suffered last year. I've told the stories of her peeing in a cup in her office and drinking her lunch through a straw so she didn't have to remove her mask.  Luckily, this year all of her students are vaccinated (she is at a private school), but she still does not know if they will require masks.

I think the hardest part for my sister is cosntantly being the bad guy, trying to enforce the rules. She was called the mask nazi, etc. It's appalling. 

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I think the hardest part for my sister is cosntantly being the bad guy, trying to enforce the rules. She was called the mask nazi, etc. It's appalling. 

My sister felt betrayed by her administration. She was required to work in person even though she has a major preexisting condition, and if she didn't she would both lose her job and not get any unemployment. The school required her to work in person and to supervise lunch in her classroom because the cafeteria was closed. So she had no time off, ever. They did not quarantine her class when a student got covid or when her teaching partner did. They required that she teach both in person and online AT THE SAME TIME, which meant that she had to have both a microphone and a headset on under her mask and face shield, while running an online program and in face program simultaneously for 9 months.  All this while she was still recovering from a two year bout with a sinus infection that was both bacterial and fungal based, while she had her nose smashed and rebuilt, twice. Her administration was uncaring and only bowed to what the rich parents wanted.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

13 hours ago, kokotg said:

Well, if THESE people were ready to get rid of schools, they'd already be homeschooling. Clearly they don't think they can do it themselves or they wouldn't need to send my husband threatening e-mails about how HE'S doing it all wrong. This particular group is all wealthy white parents who paid a lot for their houses and expect a highly ranked school system that bends to their will. And they're not used to not getting their way. 

Tangential note: rates of registered homeschooling in the UK have tripled since COVID started and "unexplained pupil exits" (where students have left school without an explanation being provided - one of only two legal reasons for that happening is if parents pulled the student out to electively homeschool and opted not to register) have nearly quadrupled.

It is interesting so many parents are choosing to homeschool, and these ones are choosing to yell at their educators/helpers instead. (It is suspected a major factor in the rise in British homeschooling is questioning whether the protection schools provide is enough, but the nature of homeschool law prevents systematic surveying to find out).

  

11 hours ago, mathnerd said:

The virus does not care. It will mutate into Delta Plus independently right here in the US (it has been known to happen with other strains). The ICU's are overflowing. People like this are going around without masks and without vaccines and Delta is more infectious than other variants. We are approaching 650K deaths in a span of 2 years. Connecting the dots is rather easy for a logical person.

Delta Plus already exists in the UK, India and parts of the USA (I'm not sure which of the latter two got it first, but it's definitely an import to the USA). The USA would have to call it something else if it evolves independently there.

  

8 hours ago, pinball said:

I’m pretty sure that is unconstitutional 

I'm sure state border closures would be unconstitutional, unless the state had such a severe emergency it could justify not allowing anyone from outside the state non-emergency access. (And even then, it would probably be obliged to accept transfers from hospitals unless it could demonstrate there were no appropriate beds available). The EU allowed Schengen borders to be treated that way at the height of the first wave, but only if all such borders were blocked to non-essential travel, for much the same reason.

  

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I have wondered this. Why not have masking and nonmasking schools? The nonmasking school parents will soon recognize their error in judgement. 

Because then each side would want their school to maintain whichever position it already favoured, leading to an intensification of the arguments and no progress in getting anyone taught (safely or otherwise).

 

I've seen several people report their ICU situations. Across the UK, tehre are just over 4000 ICU beds (although the definition of an ICU bed is a bit stricter than I think is the case in the USA - a lot of people who'd be in ICU in the USA are in a high-dependency unit (HDU) here). 874 of those ICU beds - just over a fifth - have COVID patients in them. It was 904 people 10 days ago, but more people have been weaned off ventilatable beds than have started using them. There are a few hospitals that are redirecting patients and cancelling operations due to lack of local bed availability, but most of the UK is able to start working through the 5 million backlog of operations (for anyone wondering, that's 1 in 14.2 people).

While the next few weeks will be difficult because the reopening of the UK has significantly increased cases, there is starting to be light at the end of the tunnel. With any luck, I might be able to stop locking down at the end of September.

I cross my fingers and hope for the parts of the USA that are still in the middle of fighting Delta.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[Wheres Toto]

Looks like we have one school district in NJ that is "fighting the mask mandate" although that appears to be just a letter to the governor at the moment.  I'm kind of surprised at the district involved.  It's a small, not particularly wealthy town.  There are other towns I would have expected to jump on that faster.  

We are having a HUGE surge of people wanting to homeschool (actually most just want "pods" and are looking for teachers) because they do NOT want their kids in masks.  

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, JennyD said:

Re the video from Franklin, TN, local news is now reporting that one of the guys threatening the doctor is a former-musician-turned-diamond-dealer-turned-antimask-activist who -- wait for it -- doesn't even have children. The other is a Christian musician whose previous brief moment of fame was being fired ON STAGE by Kelly Clarkson in 2005 after he made a rude gesture to the audience.

 

Oh.good.grief. Such prize individuals! (dripping disdain) 😠

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

My sister felt betrayed by her administration. She was required to work in person even though she has a major preexisting condition, and if she didn't she would both lose her job and not get any unemployment. The school required her to work in person and to supervise lunch in her classroom because the cafeteria was closed. So she had no time off, ever. They did not quarantine her class when a student got covid or when her teaching partner did. They required that she teach both in person and online AT THE SAME TIME, which meant that she had to have both a microphone and a headset on under her mask and face shield, while running an online program and in face program simultaneously for 9 months.  All this while she was still recovering from a two year bout with a sinus infection that was both bacterial and fungal based, while she had her nose smashed and rebuilt, twice. Her administration was uncaring and only bowed to what the rich parents wanted.

I'm so sorry. My sister has gone above and beyond to protect her teachers, and the students. And been sure to make sure teachers get paid for time off to test/quarantine, etc etc. 

[ktgrok]

Ugh, friend of mine just said someone she knows is positive. Still sending her kids to school, which she is home sick. AND she's not doing the full isolation, just 1 week and then going back to work...as a respiratory therapist...in a children's hospital. 

freaking sociopaths

[kokotg]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

My sister felt betrayed by her administration. She was required to work in person even though she has a major preexisting condition, and if she didn't she would both lose her job and not get any unemployment. The school required her to work in person and to supervise lunch in her classroom because the cafeteria was closed. So she had no time off, ever. They did not quarantine her class when a student got covid or when her teaching partner did. They required that she teach both in person and online AT THE SAME TIME, which meant that she had to have both a microphone and a headset on under her mask and face shield, while running an online program and in face program simultaneously for 9 months.  All this while she was still recovering from a two year bout with a sinus infection that was both bacterial and fungal based, while she had her nose smashed and rebuilt, twice. Her administration was uncaring and only bowed to what the rich parents wanted.

I'm sorry 😞 . And it all sounds very familiar. My husband won't miss teaching online and in person at the same time this year...except for how it means he has 30 kids in all of his classes. 

Our county is a weird case because it's sort of split in half by Atlanta (which is its own system. If Atlanta were part of the county schools there'd be NO QUESTION about requiring masks). The northern half of the county is largely rich white parents and the southern half is largely not so rich Black parents. And guess which group is protesting the mask mandate AND has time to organize protests and money to get lawyers involved and connections to somehow find doctors to sign medical waivers for their kids? I'm kind of surprised the superintendent is still hanging in there for now with the mask mandate, honestly. He doesn't strike me as a guy with a lot of backbone, but I will grudgingly admit that he has a tough job right now that I wouldn't take for a billion dollars. 

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, friend of mine just said someone she knows is positive. Still sending her kids to school, which she is home sick. AND she's not doing the full isolation, just 1 week and then going back to work...as a respiratory therapist...in a children's hospital. 

freaking sociopaths

October 27, 1918 in San Francisco, 110 people were arrested for violating the mask/face covering mandate. Another 175 were arrested by Nov. 2nd. It was not deemed unconstitutional. Some posted the $10 bail and promised to wear their face coverings, others served 30 days.

Is this where we are headed as a nation? 

In my head I hear Effie Trinket say, "May fortune be ever in your favor". It is the Hunger Games out there.

[Happy2BaMom]

32 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, friend of mine just said someone she knows is positive. Still sending her kids to school, which she is home sick. AND she's not doing the full isolation, just 1 week and then going back to work...as a respiratory therapist...in a children's hospital. 

freaking sociopaths

Yes, she's a sociopath.

Forbes: Here are the 13 (Mostly Southern) States Where Child Hospitalizations are Soaring Amid Delta Surge

 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

Is she not telling her employer she is covid positive? Or does her employer know and will allow her to come back before testing negative? Was she vaccinated?

Not vaccinated, tested at home, not sure if employer knows. Has not retested negative. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Not vaccinated, tested at home, not sure if employer knows. Has not retested negative. 

She’s probably not gonna be contagious after a week. The lack of quarantine is probably the least bad thing she’s doing.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

She’s probably not gonna be contagious after a week. The lack of quarantine is probably the least bad thing she’s doing.

lets hope...she's still having symptoms, so yeah...

[Dmmetler]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

I have wondered this. Why not have masking and nonmasking schools? The nonmasking school parents will soon recognize their error in judgement. 

That has been suggested here. It's also been suggested that hospital workers who do not wish to vaccjnate  should work at the hospital system that does not mandate it, and that all COVID cases should be sent there, leaving the hospitals with vaccinated employees to handle the non-Covid load. (I can tell you that if I need a hospital, I want to go to Methodist or the Regional Medical center, not Baptist-even though I credit Baptist with saving my life, and cried when my insurance switched to Methodist being in network. Because Methodist requires that employees be vaccinated, Baptist doesn't even ask). 

[Faith-manor]

37 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

People won’t do what they don’t want to do unless there are consequences enough to motivate the desired behavior. We can hope that desiring the common good of the community or a sense of personal morals would be enough, but it’s not always. So monetary fines make sense. As does jail time (speaking in terms of general law enforcement). One mom friend was willing to spank her children under certain narrow circumstances - going into the street without an adult and breaking away from an adult in a parking lot. She and her dh deemed these dangerous enough to warrant a penalty serious enough to curb the behavior. 

The ability to enforce consequences for not wearing masks is the sticky point. There is a movement afoot of We Will Not Comply! and these folks are using the same aggressive crowd tactics we’ve seen regularly on the nightly news  for the past couple of years now. Law enforcement is in a pickle, as we saw on January 6 (and perhaps in that TN video), officers can be overwhelmed by the crowd and/or stand with the politics of one side over the other. 
 

It is looking to me like the only way people are going to have a change of heart about following the recommendations of bona fide medical authorities is if someone close to them experiences the worst of natural consequences. In some circumstances it would be a teachable moment - ok, go on then, see where that road leads you. I mean, isn’t that a tactic we sometimes use when getting our young adults ready for independent living? Like when they blow their first paycheck at Starbucks and Chipotle and then have to sit home because they have no money left to put gas in their car. But with a viral pandemic, it’s not just the wayward spender sitting home to reflect on how to do things better next time. It’s the unvaccinated, rabid antimaskers living it up and providing hosts for new mutations, leaving children, elderly and medically fragile people to fall victim to covid as they exercise their “God-given right to free choice!”
 

I am venting and preaching to the choir, I know, but man, why is this so difficult to understand? I don’t think it’s hard to understand. I think a lot of Americans have a big fat case of I Don’t Wanna. So so discouraging. 

I think that there are some enforcement ideas that could work. One is to tie the fines to taxes so if not paid before then, it goes on your state or federal tax bill and if said taxpayer would receive a refund, deduct from that. Use the proceeds for bonuses for healthcare workers. Sociopaths do tend to care about money when they can't be bothered to care about humans.

It is possible. But I am willing to admit state and federal leadership are primarily weasels and jellyfish so nothing is going to happen. Just let it rip. I wonder if any of them have stopped to consider the effects of a million or more dead on the economy they so ardently worship!

[Happy2BaMom]

33 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

She’s probably not gonna be contagious after a week. The lack of quarantine is probably the least bad thing she’s doing.

All true, but her children are still going to school (I'm going to guess/bet unmasked, since that's the standard in most places now) while she is actively infected.

[Longtime Lurker]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, friend of mine just said someone she knows is positive. Still sending her kids to school, which she is home sick. AND she's not doing the full isolation, just 1 week and then going back to work...as a respiratory therapist...in a children's hospital. 

freaking sociopaths

Here being vaccinated exempts you from quarantine if you do not have symptoms. This concerns me because it means that a vaccinated student can still attend school if their parent or other family member is positive for covid. Last spring when vaccination seemed to prevent spread this made some sense, but it does not seem safe anymore.

[Longtime Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Here being vaccinated exempts you from quarantine if you do not have symptoms. This concerns me because it means that a vaccinated student can still attend school if their parent or other family member is positive for covid. Last spring when vaccination seemed to prevent spread this made some sense, but it does not seem safe anymore.

The upside to this policy, though (health dept policy, not made up by the schools) is that it acts as a huge incentive to vaccinate. Many students at the high school where I work have vaccinated in order to avoid contact quarantine. This, in turn, makes everybody safer. 

[kokotg]

8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I have wondered this. Why not have masking and nonmasking schools? The nonmasking school parents will soon recognize their error in judgement. 

Funny you should say that. Our county's new plan is to open up a masks optional alternative K-8 program for at least this semester. I have many questions. Like who's going to sign up to go teach there?! And how many people will really send their kids to plague school?! But I'm impressed that they're telling the parents who don't want to follow public health guidelines that THEY'RE the ones whose kids need to go elsewhere at least. 

[SKL]

What are you telling your high school students when masking in the district is "highly encouraged but not mandated"?

That is the guidance in our district.  I will also note that we still have a "virtual learning academy" for families that don't want to risk going back to school in 2021-22.

My thought is to leave it up to my (fully vaccinated) teens.  I think they are old enough to decide, and it's not like they can't just take off their masks when I'm not around.

[Not_a_Number]

45 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

All true, but her children are still going to school (I'm going to guess/bet unmasked, since that's the standard in most places now) while she is actively infected.

Yes, that's the part that seems really wrong. 

[Dmmetler]

48 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Funny you should say that. Our county's new plan is to open up a masks optional alternative K-8 program for at least this semester. I have many questions. Like who's going to sign up to go teach there?! And how many people will really send their kids to plague school?! But I'm impressed that they're telling the parents who don't want to follow public health guidelines that THEY'RE the ones whose kids need to go elsewhere at least. 

I have a friend who would. She detests masking to the point of fanaticism, although she did get vaccinated last Spring. I'm sure that if she could sign up to work at a school (she's a computer lab/online instruction supervisor at a high school) where she won't be required to mask, she would do so in a heartbeat. 

 

It would also potentially let the district require vaccination (or a medical waiver) for teachers in other schools without having to negotiate a new teaching contract, because it would be a choice of assignments, not a mandate across the board-teachers who do not wish to disclose their vaccine status could simply be assigned to "My Body My Choice Elementary", and that would fall under the hatrack clause that every teaching contract I've ever signed has (basically, we agree to call you a teacher and pay you accordingly, but you have no real control over who you teach, where, when, or what subjects within the limits of your teaching license). 

[kokotg]

couple more thoughts:

This will be an interesting experiment in how effective masks are (not a perfect one, since I imagine the families going to maskless school would tend to be less cautious in general and probably less likely to be vaccinated...but if they have significantly higher transmission rates there it would be difficult for them to continue to argue that there's no reason for a mask mandate. And if they don't, that would be pretty convincing in the other direction (with other disclaimers about how they're probably less likely to test, etc). 

And word is a bunch of these parents are getting notes from doctors saying their kids are unable to wear masks, which seems like it's kind of given the schools an opening to do this: sorry, we can't safely accommodate your kids' special medical needs at their home schools, so we can offer you this alternative. Too bad your kids are all too fragile to wear masks! 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

What are you telling your high school students when masking in the district is "highly encouraged but not mandated"?

That is the guidance in our district.  I will also note that we still have a "virtual learning academy" for families that don't want to risk going back to school in 2021-22.

My thought is to leave it up to my (fully vaccinated) teens.  I think they are old enough to decide, and it's not like they can't just take off their masks when I'm not around.

Mine is wearing his mask, but he's relatively oblivious to peer pressure. He's vaccinated--he normally has to really talk himself into a shot and almost always gets freaked out, but he marched into his Covid shot like he was kind of the universe with no hesitation. He has zero interest in getting the plague. He doesn't understand why other people won't wear them and wear them properly. 

He doesn't find the mask a distraction or a chore. He has a spare in his locker in case his gets wet or something during the day. 

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

What are you telling your high school students when masking in the district is "highly encouraged but not mandated"?

That is the guidance in our district.  I will also note that we still have a "virtual learning academy" for families that don't want to risk going back to school in 2021-22.

My thought is to leave it up to my (fully vaccinated) teens.  I think they are old enough to decide, and it's not like they can't just take off their masks when I'm not around.

Mine are doing masks inside, but they would do that whether I encouraged it or not (and I have immune to peer pressure types, too). I'm kind of resigned to masks during surges for the foreseeable future, vaccinated or not. But then, I really don't consider masks in climate controlled buildings to be a very big deal. It's not my favorite, but it's fine. That said, I am letting my vaccinated wind players go to youth orchestra this year. They'll have masks with slits and bell covers, which is...something I guess. That's the sort of risk vaccines are making me willing to take this year when I wouldn't last year. 

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

That said, I am letting my vaccinated wind players go to youth orchestra this year. They'll have masks with slits and bell covers, which is...something I guess. That's the sort of risk vaccines are making me willing to take this year when I wouldn't last year. 

Our band is taking no precautions. I am not sure what I'd be comfortable with, but no precautions is not okay with me. No masking, no bell covers. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Here being vaccinated exempts you from quarantine if you do not have symptoms. This concerns me because it means that a vaccinated student can still attend school if their parent or other family member is positive for covid. Last spring when vaccination seemed to prevent spread this made some sense, but it does not seem safe anymore.

Yeah, the kids in question in that instance are not vaccinated anyway. My neighbor, when she had covid, also sent her kids to school. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by ktgrok

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Our band is taking no precautions. I am not sure what I'd be comfortable with, but no precautions is not okay with me. No masking, no bell covers. 

I mean, with many if not most wind instruments, masks and bell covers are just for show anyway.

[kbutton]

Just now, SKL said:

I mean, with many if not most wind instruments, masks and bell covers are just for show anyway.

I haven't looked at studies for a while, but it seemed to depend on the shape of the instrument. Masks are still useful for when students are talking between playing. (This band has a lot of chatter. Tons.) 

[kokotg]

11 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Our band is taking no precautions. I am not sure what I'd be comfortable with, but no precautions is not okay with me. No masking, no bell covers. 

Yeah, I don't know to what extent masks and bell covers are safety theater, but I appreciate that they're trying and acknowledging that covid exists at least. My senior is applying to schools as a music performance major this year, so opting out of performing for another year would be a very big deal and not a decision I'd feel comfortable making for him, given that he's vaccinated. He's homeschooled, so he can limit his exposure elsewhere and limit how much other people are exposed to HIM...but I'll feel a lot better when this surge is on the wane and when his little brother can be vaccinated. ETA: I will say that I bought him a slitted mask last year and a different on this year, and the newer design does seem a lot better thought out and gives more coverage than the old one. And I like to see "learning to live with covid" looking like that--finding ways to do things as safely as possible--instead of it looking like, "oh, well--everyone's going to die sometime!"

Edited August 12, 2021 by kokotg

[Dmmetler]

31 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Our band is taking no precautions. I am not sure what I'd be comfortable with, but no precautions is not okay with me. No masking, no bell covers. 

I have a beginning  flute student and am planning to do masks when we aren't actively playing, spacing, two air purifiers, and a cover over the foot. Closed hole flutes. I am trying to figure out if maybe a face shield would work at least a little.  I just don't think a mask with a slit would help enough to make up for the lack of being able to see embouchure. The family is completely vaccinated and homeschooled, and is doing private lessons largely because the homeschool beginning band is taking NO precautions. 

[Faith-manor]

58 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I have a beginning  flute student and am planning to do masks when we aren't actively playing, spacing, two air purifiers, and a cover over the foot. Closed hole flutes. I am trying to figure out if maybe a face shield would work at least a little.  I just don't think a mask with a slit would help enough to make up for the lack of being able to see embouchure. The family is completely vaccinated and homeschooled, and is doing private lessons largely because the homeschool beginning band is taking NO precautions. 

Ouch to the homeschool band!

I think if you wore a face shield at least that would be another reduction in risk. Maybe mount a surgical mask or a part of a hepa filter vacuum bag at the bottom so air can come in, but your droplets don't get out. Demonstrating embouchure is always problematic in these circumstances though. Ugh!

[Spy Car]

19 hours ago, Seasider too said:

This is the most interesting thing to me. The people who are acting most like pre-WW2 German nationalists are the ones accusing everyone else of acting like pre-WW2 German nationalists. 
 

Mind boggled.

(I’ll stop here because I’ll probably get called for an appeal-to-Hitler sort of comment, but really… And sincerely, no offense intended to our dear boardies of German descent.)

You've noticed that too?

Hospitals are turning people away because they are beyond capacity, Florida--where the governor has taken every measure to undermine rational containment measures--is now pleading for ventilators, Mississippi is begging for a Naval hospital ship, the mutations have taken hold due to people refusing to vaccinate w/o cause combined with refusals to mask, while spreading Covid disinformation.

Meanwhile these folks accuse those of us who have done the right things of being "evil."

The gaslighting never stops.

Bill

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Spy Car

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Ordinary Shoes said:

Not surprising. Matt Walsh (just a big troll) was bragging about attending his local school board meeting (Nashville) to complain about masking and his kids are homeschooled. 

You are right. He is a troll! And there are a lot of them out there.