In-Law Advice

[Lecka]

Without going into details, my ILs are difficult people and I have done a lot over the years to put up with them as they have been rude and inconsiderate to both my husband and I.  

Anyway — about two months ago I had a falling out with them and blocked them on Facebook and haven’t spoken to them.  

I really feel I am owed an apology and some commitment to better treatment.  Well — that is not going to happen.

Well — my husband sees my side, but it is stressful to him.  It is not very nice for him at all.

Should I just suck it up and make up with them?

 

[Arcadia]

I am on diplomatic terms with my in-laws because they will overstep boundaries again if I am “nicer”. My husband would stick to safe topics like Boxing Day sales when talking to them.

I think it is possible to maintain diplomatic relations with relatives that are “annoying” without having to “suck it up and make up”.

[Shoeless]

What is the most truthful apology you can offer to them?  

Can you truthfully say something like "I am sorry we argued"? 

I don't think you should apologize if it isn't true, and the end result will be more bad treatment from them. 

Do you have to see them? Can your husband visit his parents without you being there?

[mathnerd]

Now, I let my DH deal with them, 100%. I have had to "suck it up" for a long time and I came to the conclusion that it is not worth losing the values that I upheld in order to "keep the peace" and a hypocritical "family togetherness" when I did not feel that spirit in my heart. I have a superficial and Low Contact relationship with my IL's.

[gardenmom5]

Have you read Boundaries, when to say yes, how to say no?

I suggest you and you dh read it before making a decision. 

[MercyA]

19 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Should I just suck it up and make up with them?

Yes, for your husband's sake.

6 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Can you truthfully say something like "I am sorry we argued"? 

I don't think you should apologize if it isn't true, and the end result will be more bad treatment from them

I think what Miss Lemon suggested is perfect.

ETA: I'm assuming that the issues don't go beyond what you've mentioned here, rudeness and inconsideration. If they're violent or hateful I'd feel differently.

Edited December 23, 2020 by MercyA

[Melissa Louise]

Low/no contact is very freeing. 

[gardenmom5]

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

I think it is possible to maintain diplomatic relations with relatives that are “annoying” without having to “suck it up and make up”.

For some yes, for others no.

I will only meet my brother in 3rd party locations I can leave within 5 minutes if needed.  I never at his disposal, and he's banned from my house. (I've never told him he's banned, I just never invite him.)  We might see each other once a year.  In a crowd. 

[J-rap]

Can you say something like, "I truly hope we can figure things out and come to good terms!  This is important to me.  How can we make this happen?"

[marbel]

Has your husband discussed the problem with his parents?  If not, he should. I know you can't make him do that, but if, as you say, your husband sees your side of it, he should talk to them about your feelings, not leave it to you to make it up to his parents.  

 

[prairiewindmomma]

You want to sacrifice your own feelings so your husband can feel better about your ILs mistreating you? 
 

I advise against it. I did that for about a decade. ILs went to lengths to escalate the awful....they became bolder and meaner because they could without consequence.

Let Dh handle dh’s side of the family. You can be absolutely polite without smoothing things over, iykwim.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by prairiewindmomma

[Lecka]

I don’t need to see them anytime soon, I think I do need to be part of a phone conversation on Christmas.  
 

There’s nothing violent.  I think — crossing into hateful, but not all the way there.  
 

Once in a while, they will send us a text and my husband would like me to respond — it can be extremely light, though, on those.  
 

If they are rude on text, my husband will not reply, but then a month goes by and they act like nothing happened — that is the pattern more than anything.  
 

Really all I have to do is go one step above “pointedly not talking to them.”

I would also send them pictures the next time I send pictures out to relatives.  
 

I used to share photos with my MIL several times a month, but I don’t think I’m going to go back to that.  
 

I think it would be truthful to say I still want to chat with them even though we have disagreements.  

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

 

If they are rude on text, my husband will not reply, but then a month goes by and they act like nothing happened — that is the pattern more than anything.    

I think it would be truthful to say I still want to chat with them even though we have disagreements.  

Does your husband have similar boundaries if they are rude to you? If you are not left to fend for yourself when they are rude, I think it’s up to you to decide how much and how often to chat. If he allows them to be rude to you without hanging up on them, etc. then I would not be involved.

I don’t think you should apologize if they’ve been rude, even if it leads to you taking steps to avoid them, such as unfriending on social media. I wouldn’t expect an apology from people who are like that.

I think it’s reasonable to tailor your level of chit chat to how you are being treated.

I have as little contact with my MIL as possible, and I wish I had insisted on that years ago. I don’t call or text, and I try not to be around when DH calls. In the past, I had to stick around, or my husband would agree to stuff or tell things that fostered ill will (like talking about the kids staying with my parents for a week or seeing my family for visits way longer than what we see her—she can’t be nicer to me longer than 24 hours, give or take an hour or two).

If your DH is willing to step on toes if they are rude, he isn’t making commitments that aren’t okay with you, and he has your back, I think you don’t have a lot to lose by being present or chatty. I would leave the conversation if it turns ugly. I wouldn’t go back to being friends on social media, etc. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

You want to sacrifice your own feelings so your husband can feel better about your ILs mistreating you? 
 

I advise against it. I did that for about a decade. ILs went to lengths to escalate the awful....they became bolder and meaner because they could without consequence.

Let Dh handle dh’s side of the family. You can be absolutely polite without smoothing things over, iykwim.

 

If your DH is asking you to apologize, refriend, etc., then I agree with this. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

46 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I don’t need to see them anytime soon, I think I do need to be part of a phone conversation on Christmas.  
 

There’s nothing violent.  I think — crossing into hateful, but not all the way there.  
 

Once in a while, they will send us a text and my husband would like me to respond — it can be extremely light, though, on those.  
 

If they are rude on text, my husband will not reply, but then a month goes by and they act like nothing happened — that is the pattern more than anything.  
 

Really all I have to do is go one step above “pointedly not talking to them.”

I would also send them pictures the next time I send pictures out to relatives.  
 

I used to share photos with my MIL several times a month, but I don’t think I’m going to go back to that.  
 

I think it would be truthful to say I still want to chat with them even though we have disagreements.  

Not replying to rude texts is a form of (light) boundary setting.  Ie.  if you are rude, then I won't respond.  (Even if it is an unspoken boundary).

I think that if you want to have polite small talk, very occasional sharing of pictures for the sake of family relationship, then that is perfectly acceptable.  If they can't handle that, then I would feel free to walk away or otherwise disengage. 

No one is required to have warm relationships with people who are rude to them.  I do think that there is some value in having more impersonal ones as long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse. 

[Katy]

Being rude and mean is being verbally abusive. You are under no obligation to have a relationship with someone who is abusive, rude or treats you badly. You probably wouldn’t encourage a child to put up with that, and neither should you. 

You can just avoid them, or you can outright say, “You are rude and mean.  I won’t lie or pretend things are fine while you’re acting this way, and I won’t let my children be abused by you either.  DH can do whatever he wants, but we’re done.”

They might eventually (after a few years) start respecting you enough to have a cold, formal relationship.  Cold on their end because they’ll be afraid of you, but better than abusive.  I’ve done this, and sometimes they really do come along after a year or two, other times not. I think it depends on whether they’re just used to an abusive dynamic or if they genuinely have a personality disorder.

If your DH feels obligated (by love or otherwise) to be in relationship with them, encourage him to do whatever he feels is best. Offer to do things that support him. Read the book boundaries together.  Read books about narcissism and borderline personality disorder together. Go with him to therapy if that’s helpful. Maybe find him a cognitive behavioral therapist to help him learn boundaries or to recognize that he’s being abused and go through the process of coming to terms with that. 

[marbel]

6 hours ago, Lecka said:

<snip>

If they are rude on text, my husband will not reply, but then a month goes by and they act like nothing happened — that is the pattern more than anything.  

<snip>

OK, if that's their pattern, then... if you feel you should talk to them on Christmas, talk to them. If you want to start sending photos of the kids, send them.  It seems as if they feel no need to apologize for their rudeness; there's apparently no expectation of apology or of "making up." So, follow their lead.

If your husband wants to put up with his parents' being rude and (almost?) hateful to him, that's fine.  He can continue to talk to them, send them photos, keep following the pattern of ignoring their rudeness. I understand the desire to keep in touch with parents, "honor thy father and mother" and all that. You can participate in that, or not.  

If your in-laws are hateful toward you, your husband should be calling them out on that. He should not allow his parents to abuse his wife, and certainly not expect his wife to apologize to them. 

 

[JustEm]

56 minutes ago, marbel said:

OK, if that's their pattern, then... if you feel you should talk to them on Christmas, talk to them. If you want to start sending photos of the kids, send them.  It seems as if they feel no need to apologize for their rudeness; there's apparently no expectation of apology or of "making up." So, follow their lead.

If your husband wants to put up with his parents' being rude and (almost?) hateful to him, that's fine.  He can continue to talk to them, send them photos, keep following the pattern of ignoring their rudeness. I understand the desire to keep in touch with parents, "honor thy father and mother" and all that. You can participate in that, or not.  

If your in-laws are hateful toward you, your husband should be calling them out on that. He should not allow his parents to abuse his wife, and certainly not expect his wife to apologize to them. 

 

 

This is how I feel.  If I were in this situation, I would expect my dh to stick up for me.  If he weren't able to do that then I would protect myself by continuing not to have a relationship with my in laws.

 

[AmandaVT]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

OK, if that's their pattern, then... if you feel you should talk to them on Christmas, talk to them. If you want to start sending photos of the kids, send them.  It seems as if they feel no need to apologize for their rudeness; there's apparently no expectation of apology or of "making up." So, follow their lead.

If your husband wants to put up with his parents' being rude and (almost?) hateful to him, that's fine.  He can continue to talk to them, send them photos, keep following the pattern of ignoring their rudeness. I understand the desire to keep in touch with parents, "honor thy father and mother" and all that. You can participate in that, or not.  

If your in-laws are hateful toward you, your husband should be calling them out on that. He should not allow his parents to abuse his wife, and certainly not expect his wife to apologize to them. 

 

This is what I do with MIL. I let DH deal with the arguing with her and standing up for us. Thankfully, he does a good job of setting boundaries with her. I keep things light and will only text her on a group text w/ DH. That way she can't try to split. I haven't been in the middle of a blow up in a few years now with this strategy. DH has to deal with them sometimes, but it's his mom, so he can. Good luck!! 

[Lecka]

My husband is talking to a counselor on the phone.  I think this comes up but I don’t really know.  I do have a good impression of it.  
 

Here is something that happened about 3 months ago.  My MIL saw Plandemic and she thinks that masks harm people and that masks harm children.  She thinks we are harming our kids to have them wear masks, and that it will give them pneumonia.  
 

That time my husband spent 2 hours on the phone with her because he is worried about her thinking things like this, and thought he could persuade her to see that Plandemic type stuff isn’t a good source of information.

Even though — she has no interest whatsoever in hearing any different viewpoint.  
 

So it goes from just chatting about the kids and holidays to her or FIL throwing something like this into the conversation, in attack mode.  
 

I had been trying to go for saying “that’s interesting” but it ends up that means — we just listen to them say critical things about us.

My husband has been withdrawing from trying to convince them of things.  
 

We share very little with them.  
 

He said he supports me.  He would like it if I did chat with them.  But, he is very aware they might be rude, and he does not want them to be rude to me, either.  
 

I think it would work out if I was ready to get off the phone if they did start.  My husband has been talking more about how he can’t change their mind, and he has been getting off the phone, since that time.  
 

What my husband would really like would be if we could all have a civil conversation without his parents starting something, but he is giving up on it, but he also doesn’t want to just not talk to them anymore.  He does want to talk to them on Christmas.

 

Anyway — I have gotten some good ideas.  
 

 

[1234]

I only talk with my in laws when we see them in person, which is only every few years. There is zero reason for me to communicate with them via text or phone. Dh talks with them weekly though. And I actually like my in laws, but I’m just not close to them (and that’s ok). 

[fairfarmhand]

11 minutes ago, Lecka said:

My husband is talking to a counselor on the phone.  I think this comes up but I don’t really know.  I do have a good impression of it.  
 

Here is something that happened about 3 months ago.  My MIL saw Plandemic and she thinks that masks harm people and that masks harm children.  She thinks we are harming our kids to have them wear masks, and that it will give them pneumonia.  
 

That time my husband spent 2 hours on the phone with her because he is worried about her thinking things like this, and thought he could persuade her to see that Plandemic type stuff isn’t a good source of information.

Even though — she has no interest whatsoever in hearing any different viewpoint.  
 

So it goes from just chatting about the kids and holidays to her or FIL throwing something like this into the conversation, in attack mode.  
 

I had been trying to go for saying “that’s interesting” but it ends up that means — we just listen to them say critical things about us.

My husband has been withdrawing from trying to convince them of things.  
 

We share very little with them.  
 

He said he supports me.  He would like it if I did chat with them.  But, he is very aware they might be rude, and he does not want them to be rude to me, either.  
 

I think it would work out if I was ready to get off the phone if they did start.  My husband has been talking more about how he can’t change their mind, and he has been getting off the phone, since that time.  
 

What my husband would really like would be if we could all have a civil conversation without his parents starting something, but he is giving up on it, but he also doesn’t want to just not talk to them anymore.  He does want to talk to them on Christmas.

 

Anyway — I have gotten some good ideas.  
 

 

With these kinds of people, you really have to have a plan for things to talk about or they will fill in the gaps with weirdness.

Weather.

The apple pie you made today.

You should see our Christmas tree.

We made ornaments with the kids yesterday.

We watched A Charlie Brown Christmas last night.

 

Everything totally inocuous. They can start to bring up stuff, and you respond with "Interesting. So, is it raining there? We got a light dusting of snow here. I've been surprised that it snowed so early..." 

You learn to yammer on and on. It's a conversational technique. If they start to talk over you or can't get off of whatever goofy topic they get stuck on, you suddenly "Have to get that pie out of the oven. Merry Christmas."

[Carol in Cal.]

I wonder whether they are trying to start something, or whether they feel a duty to ‘tell the hard truth’ for protective reasons?  I disagree with what you quoted them as saying about the masks, but I could imagine as a relative who honestly thought that my child-rellies were endangered that I would have to risk my relationship with their parents in order to warn them of a true danger to the kids.

If they are rude, that’s one thing.  If they are feeling obligated to tell hard truths, that’s another.  

Rude I would expect my husband to speak up about (although actually he probably wouldn’t; luckily his parents are very nice.).  And I would also cut things short at that point and on strike two would speak up about it even if it’s a blunt as, “Wow, how rude!”  

Obligated to tell hard truths I would respond with thankful firmness.  “Thank you so much for your concern.  You have been misinformed about the mask issue, and we are doing our best to keep our children safe.”  

They are similar, but different.

Regarding DH wanting you to text with them, that bothers me.  It sounds like he might be falling into the family pattern of just smoothing things over.  I think you could reasonably ask him to stop talking about that to you.  Or if he says why don’t you go ahead and text my mom?, say, I don’t have anything I want to say.  And leave it there.

[Katy]

I’d be harsher than Carol. “If you want to believe insane conspiracy theories by people who lie to earn money online, that’s your business, but we’re going to follow science, not scam artists.”

One of our kids is high risk and we aren’t seeing anyone because one of my in laws is pretending Covid doesn’t exist.  His grandparent rights don’t usurp my child’s safety.

You are under no obligation to be abused by your DH’s parents by texting them so he can harbor the delusion that they are the nice, kind, loving people he wishes they were. 

[Carol in Cal.]

44 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’d be harsher than Carol. “If you want to believe insane conspiracy theories by people who lie to earn money online, that’s your business, but we’re going to follow science, not scam artists.”

One of our kids is high risk and we aren’t seeing anyone because one of my in laws is pretending Covid doesn’t exist.  His grandparent rights don’t usurp my child’s safety.

You are under no obligation to be abused by your DH’s parents by texting them so he can harbor the delusion that they are the nice, kind, loving people he wishes they were. 

See, this harsh response sounds borderline abusive to me itself.  Stop and think about what you would say if the OP said that that is what the ILs said to her—I imagine that you would jump right down their throats.  So why do it?  You can disagree without being disagreeable, and that is the balance that the OP should probably strike since she doesn’t want to cut all ties.

The OP’s choices are not ‘Be a wimp or be a jerk.’  There is an assertive and strong response that is neither.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[marbel]

14 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

See, this harsh response sounds borderline abusive to me itself.  Stop and think about what you would say if the OP said that that is what the ILs said to her—I imagine that you would jump right down their throats.  So why do it?  You can disagree without being disagreeable, and that is the balance that the OP should probably strike since she doesn’t want to cut all ties.

The OP’s choices are not ‘Be a wimp or be a jerk.’  There is an assertive and strong response that is neither.

I agree. There is no reason to stoop to their level, as the saying goes. And if I am not willing to be 'educated' by someone else, why should I expect them to be willing to be educated by me? They don't see their ideas as conspiracy theories or whatever.  That doesn't mean going along with them for the sake of keeping peace. But saying 'we are following medical advice' is much more objective and can't really be argued with. Well, anything can be argued with, if someone is set on arguing, but it's harder to argue when one party won't engage. 

[Katy]

44 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

See, this harsh response sounds borderline abusive to me itself.  Stop and think about what you would say if the OP said that that is what the ILs said to her—I imagine that you would jump right down their throats.  So why do it?  You can disagree without being disagreeable, and that is the balance that the OP should probably strike since she doesn’t want to cut all ties.

The OP’s choices are not ‘Be a wimp or be a jerk.’  There is an assertive and strong response that is neither.

Initially you might be right, but IME the people who believe these ridiculous theories don't stop after one or 5 arguments about it.  They get in your kid's face and tell him not to wear a mask, that his parents are trying to make him sick.  They don't stop until you shut it down by being very clear you think they are insane and they aren't to discuss it with you again without more evidence than a propaganda video.

[Carol in Cal.]

19 minutes ago, Katy said:

Initially you might be right, but IME the people who believe these ridiculous theories don't stop after one or 5 arguments about it.  They get in your kid's face and tell him not to wear a mask, that his parents are trying to make him sick.  They don't stop until you shut it down by being very clear you think they are insane and they aren't to discuss it with you again without more evidence than a propaganda video.

It doesn’t matter.  Being assertive and clear and in charge of your own kids are not worth being traded away.  Letting a jerk turn you into one yourself is not a strong or effective choice.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[Lecka]

They will never be alone with my children again unless they are adults and choose that on their own.

That is just where I am stuck.  I absolutely don’t want to be a jerk or stoop to their level.  I think I was going there and it has been good for me to quit engaging with them.  
 

But it is really hard to deflect them when they do think everything is SO important.  Everything is a salvation issue or a health issue.  Everything is a 100 on a scale of 100.  
 

They have been this wound up over where we go to church, that I don’t want a gun in the house, and that we are generically in favor of the Affordable Care Act.  
 

But they are also nice people if we could just not be considered to be doing things that are “things they are compelled to bring up.” 

[Melissa Louise]

Nice people don't have a compulsive need to control the way loved ones see things. They also tend to read the room, and back off when they are given verbal or non-verbal indications that they are about to cross a boundary. 

Imo, it's an unreasonable expectation of your dh that you chat to your not-nice-to-you-or-about-you in-laws. 

They are his parents; if he wants to remain connected to them for reasons, he can. Your chat input doesn't affect that. 

This is your life energy. Minutes/hours/days of life spent on people who disrespect you. Life is short. You're allowed to spend just enough on them as YOU want, and no more. 

 

 

 

[Bootsie]

Both my mother-in-law and father-in-law are deceased.  Looking back, there are times that I wish I had not been as sensitive, taking things personally, or held a grudge.  Likewise, DH now clearly sees times that he wished he had stepped in and said something about how I was treated at times.  We both wish that our children had had more interactions with their grandparents although there were things that we did not like or approve of.  

My response would depend on several things.  First, is this their personality and behavior, or is it something directed particularly at you?  If it is more personality and behavior, it is best not to take it  personally--it is more about them than you.  If it is directed particularly and intentionally at you, then that is another story.  Is it behavior that has been intensified by the pandemic?  Everyone is on edge these days. Is it expressing a difference of opinion?  And if so, can you just let it go in one ear and out the other?  

Discussion on the phone can be easily stopped.  "Oh, one of the kids is calling--need to go check on them"

As far as texts being rude, I find it is easy for short, written communications to come across rude when that is not the intention.  

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

It doesn’t matter.  Being assertive and clear and in charge of your own kids are not worth being traded away.  Letting a jerk turn you into one yourself is not a strong or effective choice.

I don't think it's being a jerk to call someone who is acting insane, insane.  I'm not yelling.  I'm not discussing it with them again until they get some evidence that didn't come from youtube.  I did have to suspend access to my children for this behavior.  I do not, however, think that in this person's case the suspension will be forever.  I think it's a product of the political climate they live in and when this particular president's influence is over this person's behavior is likely to change.  This isn't a person with a personality disorder, but it is a person who used to be married to someone with a personality disorder and I think they are unusually susceptible to crazy.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Initially you might be right, but IME the people who believe these ridiculous theories don't stop after one or 5 arguments about it.  They get in your kid's face and tell him not to wear a mask, that his parents are trying to make him sick.  They don't stop until you shut it down by being very clear you think they are insane and they aren't to discuss it with you again without more evidence than a propaganda video.

So you believe in "descending to their level and being a jerk too."  got it.

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

 

But it is really hard to deflect them when they do think everything is SO important.  Everything is a salvation issue or a health issue.  Everything is a 100 on a scale of 100.  
 

This is why I prefer talking on the phone with "difficult people" - not in person. 

My grandmother got one 15 minute phone call, once a week.  (when she was 80!!! - which is when I first started learning about boundaries.  Before that - we weren't allowed to hang up on her.  So - I'd just pull the phone away from my ear, only saying "uh huh" "mmhhmm", "really?" every once in awhile.  I don't have the time for those games.)  If she was rude, I said "gotta go" (you dont' need to give "a reason"), and hang up.  One phone call didn't even last five minutes.  (those were the days of phone cords.  I had a 20' cord and had to walk around furniture to get back to the base.)

I prefer e-mail with my brother, but calls me when he's driving - and bored.  I will give him one (or maybe two if I'm feeling charitable.) re-directions of the conversation when it veers into a direction I don't care to participate in before I say "bye" and hang up.  I found redirecting to talking about himself was generally safe.  Asking about his kids - you'd think would be safe (it isn't) - is a no-no.  (I don't talk about mine either.)  Even his kids think he's gone nuts.  I've only occasionally ventured into trying to help him see reason with his conspiracy theories.  (did you know CERN opened a doorway into another dimension and men in black helicopters are now chasing the scientists? 😵)

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Nice people don't have a compulsive need to control the way loved ones see things. This -

They also tend to read the room, and back off when they are given verbal or non-verbal indications that they are about to cross a boundary. 

Imo, it's an unreasonable expectation of your dh that you chat to your not-nice-to-you-or-about-you in-laws. 

They are his parents; if he wants to remain connected to them for reasons, he can. Your chat input doesn't affect that. 

This is your life energy. Minutes/hours/days of life spent on people who disrespect you. Life is short. You're allowed to spend just enough on them as YOU want, and no more. 

nice people can also be "socially inept" - not because they're not nice, but because they lack social skills.  or awareness. . .   (or have lost their filters with age . . . )

you can usually tell if someone is an overbearing blowhard in dominating a conversation vs utterly clueless  based upon how they respond to "let's change the subject".  Overbearing blowhards tend to get angry.  The clueless are frequently still clueless as to why their previous subject was inappropriate and needs to be changed.

my brother is a mix - he's an overbearing blowhard (get's angry when challenged, or told he's ) who knows everything about everything and people should do what he says.  He doesn't understand why even his own kids have gone out of their way to avoid him.  My mother lost her filters  IN PUBLIC!!!!  😲  (and she didn't have much in the way of filters to start with!  - she was clueless as to why it was inappropriate.)  I knew another  lady who was pretty clueless too, but otherwise was pretty sweet.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

They will never be alone with my children again unless they are adults and choose that on their own.

That is just where I am stuck.  I absolutely don’t want to be a jerk or stoop to their level.  I think I was going there and it has been good for me to quit engaging with them.  
 

But it is really hard to deflect them when they do think everything is SO important.  Everything is a salvation issue or a health issue.  Everything is a 100 on a scale of 100.  
 

They have been this wound up over where we go to church, that I don’t want a gun in the house, and that we are generically in favor of the Affordable Care Act.  
 

But they are also nice people if we could just not be considered to be doing things that are “things they are compelled to bring up.” 

The things they bring up are all efforts to control your decision making. They want you to decide to do things as they would have them done. 

Any time you respond (positively or negatively) you are fueling their energy to continue to push.  

My best advice is to give a one phrase response that is entirely non-committal and move the conversation topic on. If they will not budge after an attempt or two, get off of the phone.  "Oh, childling needs some help, gotta run!"  "Cake is about to come out of the oven!" 

Read about the "grey rock" technique--you may find it helpful.

Phrases I say: "I see." "You think that we should do x." "Wow, the sunshine just came out here!"

[gardenmom5]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

The things they bring up are all efforts to control your decision making. They want you to decide to do things as they would have them done. 

Any time you respond (positively or negatively) you are fueling their energy to continue to push.  

My best advice is to give a one phrase response that is entirely non-committal and move the conversation topic on. If they will not budge after an attempt or two, get off of the phone.  "Oh, childling needs some help, gotta run!"  "Cake is about to come out of the oven!" 

Read about the "grey rock" technique--you may find it helpful.

Phrases I say: "I see." "You think that we should do x." "Wow, the sunshine just came out here!"

Whether your relatives are narcissistic or not - the techniques for going gray rock are basically the same.

Dr. Ramani and gray rock:  what it is,   what happens

[prairiewindmomma]

Coming back to add.....

Dh has likely been conditioned by them to meet their emotional needs.

Don't allow the in-laws to put a wedge between him and you.  It is a technique they will likely use, repeatedly.

Don't badmouth the in-laws, even when they are egregiously and willfully being awful.  If you have to respond at all, say things to dh like, "I'm sorry this is so hard." "Wow, that was something."  

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

With these kinds of people, you really have to have a plan for things to talk about or they will fill in the gaps with weirdness.

Weather.

The apple pie you made today.

You should see our Christmas tree.

We made ornaments with the kids yesterday.

We watched A Charlie Brown Christmas last night.

 

Everything totally inocuous. They can start to bring up stuff, and you respond with "Interesting. So, is it raining there? We got a light dusting of snow here. I've been surprised that it snowed so early..." 

You learn to yammer on and on. It's a conversational technique. If they start to talk over you or can't get off of whatever goofy topic they get stuck on, you suddenly "Have to get that pie out of the oven. Merry Christmas."

You nailed it.  I learned this in dealing with my former MIL. 

[Katy]

26 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

So you believe in "descending to their level and being a jerk too."  got it.

I don't think gently pointing out that what someone's pushing on me or my family is a conspiracy theory with no evidence is either being a jerk or descending to his level.  I'm not being a jerk because I don't let them manipulate me with  political beliefs with zero evidence but their conspiracy theory.  I'm not screaming or yelling or acting mean in any way when I state I believe scientists and doctors rather than conspiracy theories they saw on social media or what their neighbor or favorite fake news site told them.  Or if I say I'm following the advice of child's doctors not Trump's. If they want to push I might say it's insane to believe a YouTube video over science.  Mean?  I don't think so, but frankly this person thinks I'm an idiot because I didn't vote for his favorite politician anyway, so I am not that worried about his opinion.  Nor am I that worried about the interpretation of someone online who wasn't there when this person was arguing for his right to endanger my child. 

Generally normal, emotionally healthy people who are just sucked into a strange political event back down when you make it clear they don't get to infect your child when it could end the child's life.  I'm not being selfish, we're all on lock down.   It's the people with a personality disorder who think it's mean to have boundaries, and IME when it becomes clear you're not going to put up with their abuse they usually move on to an easier target.  They might badmouth you when someone brings you up later, but you're no longer the cause of their every problem in life.

[Scarlett]

I generally come down on the side of doing one's best to get along with your spouse's parents including putting up with some things you would not from other people.  There is a limit of course.  Everyone has their own limit.  

[Carol in Cal.]

16 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don't think gently pointing out that what someone's pushing on me or my family is a conspiracy theory with no evidence is either being a jerk or descending to his level.  I'm not being a jerk because I don't let them manipulate me with  political beliefs with zero evidence but their conspiracy theory.  I'm not screaming or yelling or acting mean in any way when I state I believe scientists and doctors rather than conspiracy theories they saw on social media or what their neighbor or favorite fake news site told them.  Or if I say I'm following the advice of child's doctors not Trump's. If they want to push I might say it's insane to believe a YouTube video over science.  Mean?  I don't think so, but frankly this person thinks I'm an idiot because I didn't vote for his favorite politician anyway, so I am not that worried about his opinion.  Nor am I that worried about the interpretation of someone online who wasn't there when this person was arguing for his right to endanger my child. 

Generally normal, emotionally healthy people who are just sucked into a strange political event back down when you make it clear they don't get to infect your child when it could end the child's life.  I'm not being selfish, we're all on lock down.   It's the people with a personality disorder who think it's mean to have boundaries, and IME when it becomes clear you're not going to put up with their abuse they usually move on to an easier target.  They might badmouth you when someone brings you up later, but you're no longer the cause of their every problem in life.

Calling somebody insane is really not being gentle.  Just saying.

[gardenmom5]

I was relistening to Dr. Ramani and gray rocking:   Whether your inlaws are narcissistic or not, they are treating you like a scapegoat, so this part is pertinent.

~~~~~~

At the 23:52 mark:

 

It is not unusual for your entire family to be angry if you go gray rock.  This is especially true if you were the scapegoat in a family setting.

 

By going gray rock, the narcissist in the family system now needs to find new supply, and new targets.  Their new targets may not appreciate losing you as the sacrificial lamb that took all of the punches.

 

That’s’ dark, but it’s true.  Your family now view you as arrogant, uppity, full-of-yourself.  Do not let them get you down, hold your ground.  That gaslighting they’re doing is the way they’re trying to suck you back in to your usual role in the family system.

~~~~

All that is not to say it's not worth going gray rock, it is absolutely worth doing.

[Shoeless]

Hmm, if they are that crazy and confrontational, then they would get downgraded to greeting cards and a 2 minute "hello! Doing well? How's the weather? Ok, here's DH!" type chat on the phone. If they try to veer off into crazy town, "I am sorry to interrupt, but the pot is boiling over/the dog needs to go out/the kids need me/someone is at the door. It was good to talk to you, here's DH!". 

You can just remove yourself from the toxic dynamic and let DH handle his parents forever more. Your baseline duty to inlaws is to be polite. You don't have to be friends or love them or find ways to bridge gaps. You don't have to educate them on why conspiracy theories are dangerous; that's DH's responsibility. 

 

[Katy]

16 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Calling somebody insane is really not being gentle.  Just saying.

There’s a difference between saying a belief is insane vs calling a person insane. 

[Carol in Cal.]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

There’s a difference between saying a belief is insane vs calling a person insane. 

True, and you said that you called them insane.  

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

True, and you said that you called them insane.  

Well then my mistake for typing a response quickly earlier.  The actual conversation went something along the lines of me saying, "It would be completely insane for me to endanger (my child's) life by believing a conspiracy theory instead of the advice of doctors. The same doctors that called and cancelled all appointments until this is over because they think their office is too risky for (the child) right now."  This person went on to say that we wouldn't see him for a while then because he wasn't going to stay locked in his house. Fine. Then I walked away from the phone call and DH went on to argue the other points of the conspiracy theory.

If that was mean, I don't care.  If being mean is what it takes to make someone stop arguing about his right to kiss my high-risk child, fine. If drawing that boundary makes you think I stooped to his level, you weren't in the conversation with someone who bulldozed right over my objections to his visit multiple times. I'm glad that at least he stopped that nonsense and my child is safe.

BTW now that he knows people who have died from Covid this person is far less flippant. But it took 3 people younger than him dying to make him back off.  Or possibly a medical professional in the family convinced him to drop the ranting with us.

[Lecka]

What a difference a day makes..... they were very nasty to my husband yesterday, he blocked them on Facebook, they took it to text, and he told them if they are nasty on text he will block their phone number.

They also said to him “you were never like this before you married (me)” and — it’s clear they feel a lot of ill will towards me.  So really — I won’t be talking to them.  
 

I have felt like there has been ill will towards me for a while, and my husband has not “totally” seen it — he has seen it as one thing here, one thing there, but not as — there is ill will and blame towards me that is permanent (like I am a scapegoat?).  Well — he said he sees that more now.

 

I think I will not be talking to them or seeing them.

I don’t know if my husband will remain on speaking terms with them or not.  I think it’s up to him. 
 

But it would have to be a long time before I will be on speaking terms or “pretending we all get along” terms.  
 

It is too bad!  I am sorry we are at this point.  
 

But I think we have made an effort.

I do not want to be dealing with this over Christmas and I hope that we can still enjoy the holiday.  

I think we can!  I am going to go make some potato soup 🙂

 

[Storygirl]

I'm so sorry. Though the holidays should bring people together, they also often include conflict. Though I'm sorry this interaction happened between your husband and his parents, maybe your husband can see more clearly now.

I hope you are able to shake it off and focus on doing things to make your family's Christmas bright, but I know the comments really sting.

[JustEm]

I'm sorry that things played out that way but I'm glad your dh was able to see it as more than an issue here and there.  Merry Christmas

[kbutton]

Ugh. I’m sorry it’s come to this, but it’s not your fault. I am sorry that clarity means it’s as bad or worse than what you suspected. 

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Storygirl said:

I'm so sorry. Though the holidays should bring people together, they also often include conflict. Though I'm sorry this interaction happened between your husband and his parents, maybe your husband can see more clearly now.

I hope you are able to shake it off and focus on doing things to make your family's Christmas bright, but I know the comments really sting.

Holidays are one of those times that you see people for who they really are.  

 

 

OP, I'm sorry things can't be civil.  I'm glad your dh "see's" it. That makes a huge difference.  Have a merry Christmas with your children knowing you don't have to deal with toxic people.  

yes - scapegoat is the word.