Pat me on the back and say nice things...

[BlsdMama]

I am, I promise, the most extreme over thinker you've ever met.

I just agreed to demolish our main bathroom and I admit I'm hyperventilating.

Friends, who I both like and trust, and who are contractors, are redoing our bathrroms for us this spring.  It's planning phase.  I need an ADA bathroom that allows for a lot of movement. 

The question is - convert the master or the main?
And it's difficult!  I want the privacy, but the main has so much more room.  So they asked the obvious - why not make the master much bigger? It means converting the main to a half bath.  They would finish the basement bathroom - add tub and shower down there.  Shrink the main to half the size.  Give the floor space to the master and do the ADA conversion.  

I panicked after they left and said, "Oh my gosh! The resale value!" To which my husband said, "Why do we care?"
Okay, I'll give him that.  

There are four bedrooms in the finished basement and if they had a full bathroom, the teens would be set.  DH and I obviously have the bathroom up here.  That leaves a few little kiddos showering in our room for a few years before the migration into teen world as the teens fly the next.  It makes the most sense I think???

I keep wondering if there is something I haven't thought of?  Technically, we could give the littles our room (currently with a small master bath, but a huge room) and convert the two bedrooms across the hall to a huge bathroom, walk in closet, bedroom combo.  But that seems a little like reinventing the wheel.  It would require a LOT of plumbing (there is none on that side of the house) and it would take us from 3BR upstairs to just two masters.  That would be odd.... And it means that eventually DH could not convert that big front bedroom (with a big bay window) into his office in a couple years as is currently planned.

Tell me the first scenario makes the most sense.  Pat me on the head.  Murmur soothing things.

[PeterPan]

I might be missing something, but the proposed renovation you've signed off on sounds GREAT!! You're adding value by putting a full bath down with those bedrooms. I have no clue why you'd want to do your more complex, circuitous 2nd option. The first one sounds WONDERFUL and like something I would be *looking* for as a buyer!

Have you started picking out materials yet? 

Edited December 13, 2020 by PeterPan

[Jean in Newcastle]

The first scenario totally makes the most sense.  Hands down.  Now stop thinking about it!  

[katilac]

Good job, Kelly! *pat, pat* 

You definitely don't want to mess with the second, more complicated one. 

[marbel]

For sure the first option is the one to go with.  And, I am no expert, but I think large master baths are a big plus for resale. 

[Katy]

You absolutely made the right choice!

[BlsdMama]

11 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I might be missing something, but the proposed renovation you've signed off on sounds GREAT!! You're adding value by putting a full bath down with those bedrooms. I have no clue why you'd want to do your more complex, circuitous 2nd option. The first one sounds WONDERFUL and like something I would be *looking* for as a buyer!

Have you started picking out materials yet? 

THIS is the response I needed, LOL!

There is not a lot to pick out oddly - we have all new potties.  I picked out the Swash1000 bidet, lol, does that count? DH is still skeptical.  :P 😄 

I am using my current vanity in the main because it's pretty and we bought a new top like six months ago!  So there is just SO little to get?! This will be a large roll in zero depth shower in the main and an ADA sink with no lower.  The only fun thing I'm excited about is a large vertical tower cabinet?  Gotta pick that out.

[BlsdMama]

13 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The first scenario totally makes the most sense.  Hands down.  Now stop thinking about it!  

Sending you a kiss and a hug!

[BlsdMama]

You guys are the best! This is what I needed, lol!

DH has no idea how much stress the Hive saves him. 😉 

[PeterPan]

21 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

THIS is the response I needed, LOL!

There is not a lot to pick out oddly - we have all new potties.  I picked out the Swash1000 bidet, lol, does that count? DH is still skeptical.  :P 😄 

I am using my current vanity in the main because it's pretty and we bought a new top like six months ago!  So there is just SO little to get?! This will be a large roll in zero depth shower in the main and an ADA sink with no lower.  The only fun thing I'm excited about is a large vertical tower cabinet?  Gotta pick that out.

Oh good!

Light fixtures. You need them at the height for what you like to do. Like you tweeze, you this or that? You need targeted light fixtures. I'm sorta OCD about light (and everything, but definitely light, the color of the light, etc.), so I have lights flanking the mirror (for tweezing, maybe yours are different like a pull up spot), a fixture over the mirror, and an overhead fixture that has both regular light *and* a night light bulb. Mine just burnt out! I use it EVERY NIGHT oh my, love that nightlight. 

For nightlights, we have both the overhead nightlight in the fan fixture, which I use while brushing my teeth as part of my wind down ritual AND a plug in, motion activated night light that comes on when someone goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night. You get them at the hardware store. 

Also think through whether you'll charge tech in there. I usually charge my phone in the bathroom. I also charge my ipad there. You might like wireless speakers or waterproof bluetooth speakers. Or go with one of those amazon echo dot things. That way you can have music, whatever. 

Make a spot for candles.

Do you plan a heater/fan? You want a heater. Doesn't cost much more. We have panosonic whisper somethings, because I don't do noisy ones. Nothing like stepping into a warm room from your shower. 

Will it have space for two laundry baskets so your clothes can be presorted? And do you have the baskets picked out? I used a pearl glaze on the wall that is sort of grey, so I have grey accents (hampers, rugs, etc.). It mixes with the cute crystal knobs I picked out. You can be picking out hardware for the cabinetry. Go ahead and pick out the mirror. 

Will this tower cab hold your cleaning supplies? It sounds very nice. Many people like to have two sinks in a master both. I don't, but honestly my dh uses the basement bath as his own. 

What things (fixtures, etc) will you need to make it work at different levels of independence and support? I'm not an expert, but I would think at least sprayers. So you have the shower/sink fixtures to pick out. 

Your toilets sound great. We have ADA toilets for all our toilets and wider, accessible halls. 

How will your laundry get to where it's going? If your baskets roll, that might keep you independent longer. I have rolling laundry bins for the kid bath. Some people like a stacked w/d installed in the master bath.

Are they going to connect the bath and closet to make dressing easier? DEFINITELY ask about that. It's something I wanted that didn't happen, and let's just say I think about it a lot. You don't want the moisture in your closet, but to leave one room to dress with the other is just so inconvenient. So maybe they figure out a way.

I made my master bath *blingy-ier* (is that a word?) than the master bedroom. So the bedroom is just a plain violet, carefully chosen for it's meditative color. But my bathroom takes that and amps it with a glaze, crystal kind of art deco features, very ornate light fixtures (because ornate are about the same price anyway, haha), etc. 

What materials for the shower? We used I forget what it's called, something solid surface. It's fine. Tile is so popular, but you've got a lot of decisions there. I like mundane showers and am not really turned on by high end stone caves, just me. But what I really like are *hooks* for my wash rag, brushes, etc. Dream of hooks and whose stuff goes where. 

Well good! I hope you have a lot of fun planning this. They're going to barrage you with a lot of decisions, so you might as well start thinking through them now. Move on from the worries about whether and get to figuring out HOW. You're going to LOVE it when it's done. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by PeterPan

[ktgrok]

My littles share a shower with us, and it is no big deal. Or they can go downstairs for a tub bath. 

[Scarlett]

I think option one seems like a great plan.  The only thing I would consider, which I am sure contractor friends have already, is whether the main bath could at least have a small shower.  But if  it  can’t, I agree the littles sharing your shower is not a big deal.  

Edited December 13, 2020 by Scarlett

[historically accurate]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think option one seems like a great plan.  The only thing I would consider, which I am sure contractor friends have already, is whether the main bath could at least have a small shower.  But if  it  can’t, I agree the littles sharing your shower is not a big deal.  

Option One gives you what you need, what the teens need, and it's not a hardship for anyone. I would look into possibly squeezing a shower into the main bath so every bedroom has a shower on their floor, but if not, no biggie. 

 

[mom2scouts]

Please tell me your finished basement is a walk out or otherwise meets egress codes. If so, your plan sounds fine. I also like Scarlett's idea of putting a small shower in the main bath if that's an option.

[Drama Llama]

I think your plan sounds great, but then our ADA renovation resulted in a much less sensible floor plan that still made such a difference in quality of life.

I also think that given how little housing inventory is fully accessible, it’s likely that you’ve increased rather than decreased the value of your house, although I also agree that it doesn’t matter.

If you have money to splurge on something I will say that upgrading our water heater was one of the best decisions we made in the process.  If I run out of hot water when I’m showering it’s a minor annoyance but for my kid it was really hard.  

[Carol in Cal.]

Sounds super great!

Also, PSA, the newer bathroom fans are utterly quiet, and you can get them with heat or not, so I’d suggest one with heat and one without.  In each bathroom.  Also, avoid motion lights as they go out at the most inconvenient times.  Maybe have a motion nightlight, but the main lights need to stay on until you manually turn them off.

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

Please tell me your finished basement is a walk out or otherwise meets egress codes. If so, your plan sounds fine. I also like Scarlett's idea of putting a small shower in the main bath if that's an option.

It’s not a walk out but we installed egress windows in the bedrooms a couple years ago, shortly after we built the house. It needed the light, and, in finest overthinking moments, I visualized my children sizzling in a fire. Truly anxiety doesn’t always paralyze me, just in remodeling, lol. 

[BlsdMama]

The heater is flat out genius. I have a plug in one but this is SO much better. ♥️ 

[mathnerd]

Get electric towel warmers! I will put one in each and every bathroom in my next remodel. There are so many kinds, so, you might have to research that and I am no help because I don't have them yet!

[Corraleno]

I think your plans sound perfect, and I don't think it will harm resale at all. I agree with others that the accessibility may actually make your house more desirable because so few houses are set up that way.

[Pam in CT]

The first scenario makes the most sense. Sending soothing murmurs your way. You like and trust your contractors. Remember to breathe, it's super important.

[BlsdMama]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

 

Do you plan a heater/fan? You want a heater. Doesn't cost much more. We have panosonic whisper somethings, because I don't do noisy ones. Nothing like stepping into a warm room from your shower. 

Will it have space for two laundry baskets so your clothes can be presorted? And do you have the baskets picked out? I used a pearl glaze on the wall that is sort of grey, so I have grey accents (hampers, rugs, etc.). It mixes with the cute crystal knobs I picked out. You can be picking out h

What things (fixtures, etc) will you need to make it work at different levels of independence and support? I'm not an expert, but I would think at least sprayers. So you have the shower/sink fixtures to pick out. 

Your toilets sound great. We have ADA toilets for all our toilets and wider, accessible halls. 

How will your laundry get to where it's going? If your baskets roll, that might keep you independent longer. I have rolling laundry bins for the kid bath. Some people like a stacked w/d installed in the master bath.

Are they going to connect the bath and closet to make dressing easier? DEFINITELY ask about that. It's something I wanted that didn't happen, and let's just say I think about it a lot. You don't want the moisture in your closet, but to leave one room to dress with the other is just so inconvenient. So maybe they figure out a way.

What materials for the shower? We used I forget what it's called, something solid surface. It's fine. Tile is so popular, but you've got a lot of decisions there. I like mundane showers and am not really turned on by high end stone caves, just me. But what I really like are *hooks* for my wash rag, brushes, etc. Dream of hooks and whose stuff goes where. 

Well good! I hope you have a lot of fun planning this. They're going to barrage you with a lot of decisions, so you might as well start thinking through them now. Move on from the worries about whether and get to figuring out HOW. You're going to LOVE it when it's done. 

It's a mixed bag - kind of fun and a lot traumatic?  I did my annual assessments in November and DH wants "all the things" done.  This weekend it was ditching our regular van for a wheelchair van.  Try finding a van with a lift and at least ten seats.  It's been an incredible effort.  We went to Wisconsin to get it and promptly got snowed in...  I admit we tried to think of it as a surprise vacation weekend (with six kids) but about the time the hotel room lost tv and we couldn't use the pool, it lost that "escape and enjoy" flair, lol.

The hard part is planning for now, planning for progression, and planning for needing total help.  There will be floor space for my current laundry basket, but I currently only transport/do laundry as a risky sport.  It's a little like free climbing.  

The sink is complicated! I think we found the Scarabeo, but it is a shockingly narrow selection if you don't want a pedestal.  I suppose most do a solid surface drop sink with nothing beneath?  But I can't imagine not having a counter of some sort.  That wall is the same as the door and the cabinet, so there's about a 5 1/2' wall there - 2' for a cabinet and 3' for a counter/sink to maximize clearance coming through a 36" door.  The toilets throughout the house are pretty new, so we're just adding the Swash to the top of that.  The flooring essentially has to be tile - the shower can have no closures, needs zero entry, and no walls so that a caregiver can run the nozzles, etc.  So the flooring of the floor will be "dropped" and then the floor next to the edge tile too because there is overspray if that makes sense?

Man, it is one thing to plan for useless legs, but another thing entirely to plan for useless arms.  This whole thing is mentally exhausting.  Between this and the van this weekend, I am utterly overwhelmed.

[Alicia64]

Great job!! And your glasses are really cool!

W.

[gardenmom5]

If the privacy would make you more comfortable - go for it.

dudeling would only use my bathroom up until a couple years ago, even though his bedroom is on a different floor and there is a full bathroom just steps away.  I don't know what happened to change it.  I'm not complaining. 

you're living in the house now - you need an ADA bathroom.  Resale value is irrelevant.

 

[kbutton]

Quote

Go ahead and pick out the mirror. 

I am glad you like the heater idea--I am not usually into lots of extras, but if you take a little longer to get ready, and your bathroom is on the larger side, you might get cold while getting ready.

They make mirrors that pull out from the wall. My mom has one in addition to a regular mirror so that she can see up close without her glasses. It has magnification on one side and it flips to have a plain mirror on the other side. You might want one mounted just so for yourself. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Giagni-9-in-x-12-in-Polished-Chrome-Double-Sided-Magnifying-Wall-Mounted-Vanity-Mirror/1000053303?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-kab-_-google-_-lia-_-225-_-bathdecor-_-1000053303-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-8TO2_PL7QIVSr3ACh2JzAgWEAQYASABEgJngvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You can never have enough electrical outlets anywhere. Just sayin'. 

Generic advice not related to the ADA. Any walls that are opened, reinforce behind where you'll put towel bars, mirrors, fasten the sink, toilet paper holders, etc.--a partial 2x4 or 2x6 spanning the studs is pretty simple. Then take a picture with a tape measure alongside things before it's closed in. Take pictures with measurements of everything because if something has to be fixed in a bathroom (or on a shared wall with a bath), there is always something going on in the wall, and it's nice to know ahead. 

If you want anything changed about walls that adjoin another room, now is the time to think about it. New outlets are one thing you might want to consider. 

If walls are open, consider insulating the bathroom in some way for sound, especially if you have hard floors. The noise will still travel through doors to some extent, but it can really help cut down on noise. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

It's a mixed bag - kind of fun and a lot traumatic?  I did my annual assessments in November and DH wants "all the things" done.  This weekend it was ditching our regular van for a wheelchair van.  Try finding a van with a lift and at least ten seats.  It's been an incredible effort.  We went to Wisconsin to get it and promptly got snowed in...  I admit we tried to think of it as a surprise vacation weekend (with six kids) but about the time the hotel room lost tv and we couldn't use the pool, it lost that "escape and enjoy" flair, lol.

The hard part is planning for now, planning for progression, and planning for needing total help.  There will be floor space for my current laundry basket, but I currently only transport/do laundry as a risky sport.  It's a little like free climbing.  

The sink is complicated! I think we found the Scarabeo, but it is a shockingly narrow selection if you don't want a pedestal.  I suppose most do a solid surface drop sink with nothing beneath?  But I can't imagine not having a counter of some sort.  That wall is the same as the door and the cabinet, so there's about a 5 1/2' wall there - 2' for a cabinet and 3' for a counter/sink to maximize clearance coming through a 36" door.  The toilets throughout the house are pretty new, so we're just adding the Swash to the top of that.  The flooring essentially has to be tile - the shower can have no closures, needs zero entry, and no walls so that a caregiver can run the nozzles, etc.  So the flooring of the floor will be "dropped" and then the floor next to the edge tile too because there is overspray if that makes sense?

Man, it is one thing to plan for useless legs, but another thing entirely to plan for useless arms.  This whole thing is mentally exhausting.  Between this and the van this weekend, I am utterly overwhelmed.

I'm sorry you're overwhelmed, it's overwhelming.  

We ended up delegating some of our decisions, just handing them over and telling someone we trusted that whatever they chose was fine. 

It will be worth it though.  When I think about things that drastically improved quality fo life for my kid in the last few years they'd be:

Roll in shower with lots of hot water
Bathroom attached to his room
Wheelchair van
Bed big enough for us to pile in with him 
Wheelchair ramp that let him get to the backyard

All those things freed up so much time, and gave us the ability to focus on being together.  It sounds like you're working your way through the same list, although maybe backyard access isn't a thing you need. 

[BlsdMama]

14 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I'm sorry you're overwhelmed, it's overwhelming.  

We ended up delegating some of our decisions, just handing them over and telling someone we trusted that whatever they chose was fine. 

It will be worth it though.  When I think about things that drastically improved quality fo life for my kid in the last few years they'd be:

Roll in shower with lots of hot water
Bathroom attached to his room
Wheelchair van
Bed big enough for us to pile in with him 
Wheelchair ramp that let him get to the backyard

All those things freed up so much time, and gave us the ability to focus on being together.  It sounds like you're working your way through the same list, although maybe backyard access isn't a thing you need. 

Actually, you essentially named everything we've been holding off on.  I've had my wheelchair for a while, but we didn't have the ramp done yet.  The garage ramp is done.  We just need to flip a door now and away I roll. 😉 Our yard is my life when the weather is nice, so once I can't use the rollator, quality of life would go downhill.  I can see why this was so important to you. 

You also really comfort me by saying a bathroom attached to his room was important.  I am so sorry for what you have been through these past months, but please know I'm very grateful to you posting on this.  ((Hugs))

[BlsdMama]

19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I am glad you like the heater idea--I am not usually into lots of extras, but if you take a little longer to get ready, and your bathroom is on the larger side, you might get cold while getting ready.

They make mirrors that pull out from the wall. My mom has one in addition to a regular mirror so that she can see up close without her glasses. It has magnification on one side and it flips to have a plain mirror on the other side. You might want one mounted just so for yourself. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Giagni-9-in-x-12-in-Polished-Chrome-Double-Sided-Magnifying-Wall-Mounted-Vanity-Mirror/1000053303?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-kab-_-google-_-lia-_-225-_-bathdecor-_-1000053303-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-8TO2_PL7QIVSr3ACh2JzAgWEAQYASABEgJngvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You can never have enough electrical outlets anywhere. Just sayin'. 

Generic advice not related to the ADA. Any walls that are opened, reinforce behind where you'll put towel bars, mirrors, fasten the sink, toilet paper holders, etc.--a partial 2x4 or 2x6 spanning the studs is pretty simple. Then take a picture with a tape measure alongside things before it's closed in. Take pictures with measurements of everything because if something has to be fixed in a bathroom (or on a shared wall with a bath), there is always something going on in the wall, and it's nice to know ahead. 

If you want anything changed about walls that adjoin another room, now is the time to think about it. New outlets are one thing you might want to consider. 

If walls are open, consider insulating the bathroom in some way for sound, especially if you have hard floors. The noise will still travel through doors to some extent, but it can really help cut down on noise. 

The heater is such a big deal.  When  I get cold, my legs spasm and tighten.  It's pretty uncomfortable and it makes me move at a snail's pace.  
They came over, measured everything.  We did talk about the new opposite wall! We're moving the door pretty significantly and it's important that I keep my current dresser (my uncle made the furniture with oak from his timber - it's emotionally important to me.) So they situated the door so that I have a wall for the long low dresser!  They're adding an outlet too for the bidet and I have four others, but I'd assume we will put another on the new wall.  

Gosh, you guys are making me feel a lot more confident.  I hate the feeling of, "Did I overlook some detail?" It's really stressful for me.  They're adding grab bars pretty much everywhere - wall, by toilet, in shower, etc.  

I'm really hopeful this buys me a little more time with independence.  Is it weird to be THIS excited about a bidet? LOL!  DH watched a YouTube video on first time users of bidets and he is NOT sold. 😉  But his willingness counts for a lot.

[Drama Llama]

12 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Actually, you essentially named everything we've been holding off on.  I've had my wheelchair for a while, but we didn't have the ramp done yet.  The garage ramp is done.  We just need to flip a door now and away I roll. 😉 Our yard is my life when the weather is nice, so once I can't use the rollator, quality of life would go downhill.  I can see why this was so important to you. 

You also really comfort me by saying a bathroom attached to his room was important.  I am so sorry for what you have been through these past months, but please know I'm very grateful to you posting on this.  ((Hugs))

Oh, I missed the fact that the other option for the bathroom wouldn't be attached.  Attached was huge for us.  We moved at the start of the pandemic, in with my FIL to get the attached bath and the ramp to the yard, and both made such a difference.  

Oh, I forgot one thing on the list which was a communication system.  We were really lucky that he was pretty fluent before he started needing it most of the time.  

[Ottakee]

Sounds like a great plan.   Make it work for you and your family.

If you can squeeze in a small shower in the other bath, great.  If not, those kids can go downstairs or use yours.  

Definitely make sure you have plenty of hot water and a room heater would be great.   For years I worked with total care students in wheelchairs and we struggled to keep them warm after their showers.