Toddler whining

[DawnM]

Our almost 3 year old has started whining way more than usual.   We have done all the normal things to try to stop it.    The "we can't hear you when you whine, please speak to us in a normal voice" and the holding him and trying to get him to verbalize.    

And yes, he is well fed, gets time outdoors, gets energy out, lots of love, we hold him and acknowledge him being upset, try to soothe, etc.....

But when he doesn't get his way, he cries and whines like there is no tomorrow.   Some of it is so irrational I just can't deal.   Like last night, when he wanted the sun to come back out because it got dark.    And the night before when he was very upset that it wasn't Christmas yet.   Crying, whining, for a very long time.

Please be gentle, this is a foster child and I am on edge to do everything right, but we can't discipline quite the same way with him.   

Any other productive ideas?

[gardenmom5]

Is he getting enough sleep?  Contrary to popular - kids won't necessarily sleep as much as they need without grown-ups helping them to get that sleep.

sometimes toddlers need a little bit more "quiet" attention time.

[Paige]

I think it's just normal behavior. IMO, it will go away on its own in most kids when it's going to go away no matter how you respond. 

[rebcoola]

Have you tried echoing his feelings. Like when he didn't like that the sun went down.  Your mad the sun went down it makes me mad some days to.

[Lori D.]

Can you trace back to when this started and see something that changed at that time?

For example, I once changed night lights in my DSs' bedroom, and it was brighter so DS wasn't getting enough deep sleep, after 3 nights with the new night light and not enough sleep, he was a whiny mess. I thought back to how long had the new behavior been going on, and what else (even seemingly unrelated things) had changed. I remembered the night light, and as soon as I removed it, bingo! Back to deep sleep, getting fully rested, and whining falling apart behavior stopped.

So -- is your toddler getting enough deep sleep? (Do you need black out curtains, a white sound generator, check that the room is not too cold/too hot etc.)

Was a sonic pest device repeller installed at your house or next door? That can be subliminally picked up by some people and cause issues.

Is he possibly sick? I know some kids can have chronic ear infections or other illnesses that don't manifest as full-blown illness, but the child doesn't feel well and gets whiny.

Or a food reaction? That can cause change in mood. Has he been eating anything with dyes or other triggering elements?

ETA -- PS
Both of your examples happened in the evening. Is that the connecting thread -- it always happens in the evening? Then as gardenmom5 said up-thread, you may be looking at exhaustion and the need for an earlier bedtime, or an after lunch rest time to be recharged to "last" longer into the evening.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Lori D.

[Corraleno]

I wonder how much of it is anxiety over all the changes in his life and his inability to control any of it, and it just gets expressed in response to irrational things like not being able to make the sun come out or make Christmas come sooner, because he has no way to process or express his feelings of helplessness and anxiety over much bigger issues. Sending hugs and sympathy to both of you!

[DawnM]

I think he is getting enough sleep.   No less than normal.   

We do have a therapist coming to the house and I plan to bring it up with her.   

Unfortunately, I can't post the reasons he was removed from the home, but yeah, they are tough.

And yes, I do talk to him about why he is upset.   I talked about how the sun will be up tomorrow and that will be fun, etc....

ANd then this morning he popped out of bed and said, "Know you got mommy?"   I said, "no, baby, what do I have?"  He said, "You got me!"   He said it several times and it was the most precious thing.

Maybe I need more to deal with ME when he whines because he just gets in a mode and doesn't stop and I get so frustrated.

[prairiewindmomma]

His nonverbal processing of his past could look like regression and whining. I would be making sure I had structure and bonding time daily and I would just accept that the display of immature behaviors may be due to the past....or just because he is 2/3. Irrational displays of emotion is kinda peak toddler, iykwim.

[Susan in TX]

Some of my kids are sensitive to artificial colors especially red 40. One of my sons is sensitive to annatto. If he eats anything with annatto his anxiety spikes and he will be prone to crying and tantrums. So I would watch what he is eating and see if you notice anything that might be triggering his behavior.

One of my girls was very whiny and emotional when she was three. I got the idea to set up a "crying chair" for her. So whenever she started crying about something, I would gently and matter-of-factly tell her that she needed to go sit in her crying chair until she was done crying. This was not in any way a punishment. I am not sure if this did anything to reduce the behavior, but it did help me to deal with it without getting frustrated.

Susan in TX

[Ailaena]

it has been my experience that after a couple of months (more or less), foster kids at that age start that phase.   Like, the honeymoon is over and now he’s starting to break down.  He’s not tired or hungry, he doesn’t need exercise, he is mentally exhausted and can’t maintain.

i know it’s tough.  I just recommend lots and lots of love and understanding.  

[Dynamite5]

Oh, boy. You have my sympathy. Whining really grates on my nerves. I was a lucky enough parent that none of my kids were whiners. But I think that's all it was--luck. You can look up videos online of kids crying, where the parent posts why their child is melting down. The reasons are as varied and as crazy as you might think and most of them have nothing to do with logic. The dog drank all his water or I opened the cereal wrong or, as you've seen, the sun set and I want it back. It won't do anything to change your situation, except perhaps make you feel less alone. When my kids were doing something that drove me crazy, it always helped to know it was happening to others. Perhaps you'll feel the same way. 

[Drama Llama]

I have two thoughts, coming from two different places.  

One is coming from parenting my bio kids, who did plenty of whining at that age.  One thing that I learned was to grant their wishes with fantasy.  So, when they whined that it wasn't Christmas yet, I'd say "I agree.  It would be great if Christmas were tomorrow!  What would you ask Santa for.  I'd ask him for bubble bath!  I love bubble bath.  Do you want me to show you where we'll hang your stocking?"  And the mood would shift, because it went from the kid feeling all alone in an unfair world, to being a team with me.  

The other comes from parenting a child with a history of trauma and neglect, and that is that he may be missing the skills to get his needs met another way.  My bio kids knew how to say "I need a hug" or "Mom, can we snuggle for a while?" Or "Can you read me a story?"  My adopted child, when he came to me, didn't know how to ask for these things. The world had taught him that it wasn't safe to ask, or that asking didn't work, and so when he needed these things he asked in less desirable ways.   We worked really hard on reteaching the skills that were lost, because he just didn't know.  So, we spent time explicitly teaching how to ask.  For a younger child, I'd probably role play with stuffies or dolls or something too.  

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Ailaena said:

it has been my experience that after a couple of months (more or less), foster kids at that age start that phase.   Like, the honeymoon is over and now he’s starting to break down.  He’s not tired or hungry, he doesn’t need exercise, he is mentally exhausted and can’t maintain.

i know it’s tough.  I just recommend lots and lots of love and understanding.  

 

Yeah, it has been 7 months so far.

[Katy]

I'm sure it's partially age, and verbal abilities tend to regress when little kids are tired or going through a growth spurt. The fact that he's trying to encourage you to bond with him says it probably has more to do with attachment fears then anything else.   He's probably decided he's safe with you and wants to stay.  Obviously if it happens after visits or phone calls that is probably 75% of it.

I was just listening to the audiobook Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids again because my 3 year old (adopted from foster care) is has been in a whine and scream phase.  I swear every time I listen to that book I hear something new. Anyway she says that laughing can relieve the same stress hormones as crying or deep breaths, so if a kid is being challenging try (gentle) roughhousing or tickling or anything else to get him to giggle. We have a book set with monster gloves called the Tickle Monster Laughter Kit that might help.  If he melts down in the evenings maybe if you read the book and tickle him half an hour before that might relieve some of his stress before he goes into the mode.  Or if it's over stimulation it will make it worse and it will be obvious immediately.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Susan in TX said:

Some of my kids are sensitive to artificial colors especially red 40. One of my sons is sensitive to annatto. If he eats anything with annatto his anxiety spikes and he will be prone to crying and tantrums. So I would watch what he is eating and see if you notice anything that might be triggering his behavior.

One of my girls was very whiny and emotional when she was three. I got the idea to set up a "crying chair" for her. So whenever she started crying about something, I would gently and matter-of-factly tell her that she needed to go sit in her crying chair until she was done crying. This was not in any way a punishment. I am not sure if this did anything to reduce the behavior, but it did help me to deal with it without getting frustrated.

Susan in TX

Huh, I don't even know what annatto is!    I don't think he is eating anything much flavored, but he has had some M&Ms recently.    Other than that, the only non whole foods are things like Ritz or Graham crackers.    But I will look.

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I have two thoughts, coming from two different places.  

One is coming from parenting my bio kids, who did plenty of whining at that age.  One thing that I learned was to grant their wishes with fantasy.  So, when they whined that it wasn't Christmas yet, I'd say "I agree.  It would be great if Christmas were tomorrow!  What would you ask Santa for.  I'd ask him for bubble bath!  I love bubble bath.  Do you want me to show you where we'll hang your stocking?"  And the mood would shift, because it went from the kid feeling all alone in an unfair world, to being a team with me.  

The other comes from parenting a child with a history of trauma and neglect, and that is that he may be missing the skills to get his needs met another way.  My bio kids knew how to say "I need a hug" or "Mom, can we snuggle for a while?" Or "Can you read me a story?"  My adopted child, when he came to me, didn't know how to ask for these things. The world had taught him that it wasn't safe to ask, or that asking didn't work, and so when he needed these things he asked in less desirable ways.   We worked really hard on reteaching the skills that were lost, because he just didn't know.  So, we spent time explicitly teaching how to ask.  For a younger child, I'd probably role play with stuffies or dolls or something too.  

 

We had 2 recliners in our bedroom.   Two weeks ago, I replaced them with a loveseat.   He always wanted to sit right up next to me and it is far more comfortable in a loveseat.   I am not sure it has reduced the whining yet, but it is helping as he loves sitting in it with me.

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

We had 2 recliners in our bedroom.   Two weeks ago, I replaced them with a loveseat.   He always wanted to sit right up next to me and it is far more comfortable in a loveseat.   I am not sure it has reduced the whining yet, but it is helping as he loves sitting in it with me.

That's nice.  If nothing else works feel free to whine in a PM to me.  I'm going through it too.  That audiobook really does give me patience.

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

That's nice.  If nothing else works feel free to whine in a PM to me.  I'm going through it too.  That audiobook really does give me patience.

 

Thanks.   And just to clarify, I bought a used La Z Boy reclining loveseat from a nice retired couple who had taken good care of it.    It isn't the fancy electric reclining one, it is a simple reclining manual lever, but that is fine for me.   

Edited October 21, 2020 by DawnM

[katilac]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

Some of it is so irrational I just can't deal.   Like last night, when he wanted the sun to come back out because it got dark.  

There are numerous compilations on the internet of parents sharing the ridiculous reason their child is crying, lol. Your son can identify with the little boy who was furious that his mom wouldn't 'turn off' the sun so he could light his pumpkin! Seriously, search for this, you will not be disappointed. 

I'm sure part of it may be that y'all are past the honeymoon period, and part of it may be that toddlers can just be ridiculous. I love Baseballandhockey's ideas -  just lean in and roll with it 😄

Day drinking can also be helpful during this phase. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I’m with the kid. The sun sets too early now and I want it back. This is bull. I plan to whine til spring. 

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’m with the kid. The sun sets too early now and I want it back. This is bull. I plan to whine til spring. 

And why is Christmas only once a year?  Bad design.  Maybe my kid should make some Christmas cookies for Jesus’ 2/3 birthday next week. 

[hippiemamato3]

Can you try wearing him? 

[lovinmyboys]

I agree with the other posters-try searching “why my three year old is crying.” It is a thing. One of my kids at 3 cried because he had no S in his name. And my current 7yr old (who is in general an easy going kid) has started whining about christmas this week. Christmas is too far away!
 

My very hardest toddler/preschooler had lots of drama about all kinds of things. I tried really hard to see it as his immature way of communicating. I don’t really have advice, as all kids are different, but just want to say that I did pretty much nothing about his drama and it went away. He is actually not at all hard or whiny or dramatic now. I had people tell me I was spoiling him and if I gave into him he would never learn to behave or whatever. I ignored all that and I am glad I did. I would restate things for him like “you are sad that it isn’t Christmas today” or “you are frustrated the sun is already down.” And then I would empathize with him the best I could.

[PeterPan]

Target sells 30 dB ear plugs in the pharmacy section. My ds used to scream when he was little, so I'd just pop those babies in. 

Does the whining have a *function*? I don't know, just asking. So your common functions to look for are

-sensory stimulation

-escape

-access to attention

-access stuff

If he's not trying to get attention or get something, maybe try a *replacement* for it? Soft music that is either all music or all words could be soothing. Or crank up the heavy metal, haha, whatever you think matches where he's at. 

You could also make data to see if there's a pattern to the time of day. When I was trying to figure out ds' perplexing behaviors, I usually only had to log about 36 hours before it became obvious. So it might not take long. 

[PeterPan]

47 minutes ago, lovinmyboys said:

I ignored all that and I am glad I did.

Bingo. There are some behaviors that should be ignored. Especially if the function if the behavior is getting attention or a reaction. 

Op could also spell out the cause/effect for him so he doesn't miss it. Like oh I was going to suggest we play this game, but you're whining so I need to take a break and rest my ears.

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Bingo. There are some behaviors that should be ignored. Especially if the function if the behavior is getting attention or a reaction. 

Op could also spell out the cause/effect for him so he doesn't miss it. Like oh I was going to suggest we play this game, but you're whining so I need to take a break and rest my ears.

 

I have done that sort of thing.   It has little effect.   He just starts screaming or crying.  

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Can you try wearing him? 

Not really.    I don't get home these days until around 5pm or a little after and when I get home, all I can do it sit for a while.   We sit together.   That helps a bit.   But I just can't carry around a 30 pound kid right now.   

[Guest]

15 hours ago, katilac said:

There are numerous compilations on the internet of parents sharing the ridiculous reason their child is crying, lol. Your son can identify with the little boy who was furious that his mom wouldn't 'turn off' the sun so he could light his pumpkin! Seriously, search for this, you will not be disappointed. 

I'm sure part of it may be that y'all are past the honeymoon period, and part of it may be that toddlers can just be ridiculous. I love Baseballandhockey's ideas -  just lean in and roll with it 😄

Day drinking can also be helpful during this phase. 

 

I have seen some of those! They’re hilarious. If nothing else, watching that can help a parent commiserate. 

[Pronghorn]

When my chikd, who also had experienced trauma, was a toddler, I did a formal "cuddle time"with her. I would set the timer and sit in our cuddle time chair. We would play with special cuddle time toys. Sometimes I would give her a bottle and play eye contact games. I would make funny noises to encourage eye contact. I would sing. She was required to stay on my lap until the timer rang.

[Junie]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

Not really.    I don't get home these days until around 5pm or a little after and when I get home, all I can do it sit for a while.   We sit together.   That helps a bit.   But I just can't carry around a 30 pound kid right now.   

You said that you don't get home until 5.  Maybe he misses you and this is the only way he can express it.

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

I have done that sort of thing.   It has little effect.   He just starts screaming or crying.  

I agree with the missing you. Also is it possible his care situation is over or under stimulating?

Also do you have a dog? Does petting the animal together help?

Edited October 22, 2020 by PeterPan

[hippiemamato3]

Who is with him during the day? Do they also report constant whining? My daughter (who came to us with a reactive attachment disorder diagnosis) screamed at her previous foster homes incessantly. She did not do it here, but I attachment parented her 100% of the time until she had mostly healed. 

[DawnM]

37 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Who is with him during the day? Do they also report constant whining? My daughter (who came to us with a reactive attachment disorder diagnosis) screamed at her previous foster homes incessantly. She did not do it here, but I attachment parented her 100% of the time until she had mostly healed. 

My husband and oldest son are home. 

He is starting part time preschool in November, we are hoping that will help with more stimulation, etc.....Thankfully his therapist said she sees no signs of RAD and said he has appropriate attachment.

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Junie said:

You said that you don't get home until 5.  Maybe he misses you and this is the only way he can express it.

yeah, it could be.  I think preschool will help.   I am hoping.

[Drama Llama]

5 hours ago, DawnM said:

My husband and oldest son are home. 

He is starting part time preschool in November, we are hoping that will help with more stimulation, etc.....Thankfully his therapist said she sees no signs of RAD and said he has appropriate attachment.

That is wonderful news.   This does sound like really age appropriate behavior, perhaps intensified by his history.

Edited October 23, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[hippiemamato3]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

My husband and oldest son are home. 

He is starting part time preschool in November, we are hoping that will help with more stimulation, etc.....Thankfully his therapist said she sees no signs of RAD and said he has appropriate attachment.

Honestly, it's extremely rare for a toddler to be removed from a parent and not have attachment issues. The therapist may, however, not be that familiar with them. 

[Drama Llama]

Sorry I was trying to edit, and instead quoted myself.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Sorry I was trying to edit, and instead quoted myself.

 

I've been doing that all the time since the update.  

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Honestly, it's extremely rare for a toddler to be removed from a parent and not have attachment issues. The therapist may, however, not be that familiar with them. 

 

Yes, but attachment "issues" don't need to be as severe as RAD.   Our 16 year old came to us at the same toddler age.   I don't remember him being this whiney but that was also a long time ago!  😆

[DawnM]

He was better yesterday.   A lot better.   I wish I knew what the difference was.   

[hippiemamato3]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Yes, but attachment "issues" don't need to be as severe as RAD.   Our 16 year old came to us at the same toddler age.   I don't remember him being this whiney but that was also a long time ago!  😆

Of course not. But it could still explain the whining. 

[hippiemamato3]

13 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Of course not. But it could still explain the whining. 

I was just wondering though - is it possible there's a physical reason for the whining? Stomach issues? Headaches? 

[Lecka]

I think it helps to mentally translate a lot of irrational statements into “I’m having a hard time right now,” “I’m frustrated right now,” “I’m having a bad day,” etc.

My oldest son got really upset with me once after I took away kitchen knives.  
 

It was a reality check for — this is the level of rational thought I’m dealing with, and how arbitrary things can seem, and he did not understand the knives could hurt him, etc.

 

[Lecka]

I am also really stressed out right now with life in general, and it does make things harder.