Dog Ownership has become elitist and there’s whining in here

[Ginevra]

I don’t know if this is a COVID side-effect just like increase in prices for ground beef and chicken wings, and the fact you can’t buy a fishing pole anywhere, or if this is just the natural outcome I predicted a few years ago, but dog ownership is turning into something you can’t expect to do unless you have a nice cushion of disposable income. 

Sometimes when I’m daydreaming, I go to sites like Lancaster puppies or puppy spot and I look at a couple breeds I’m interested in: German Shepherds, Labs, Aussies and Border Collies usually. Sometimes I go to Petfinder but for real, guys, there is hardly ever any dog that isn’t a Pit mix or a hound mix. Yesterday I saw one non-Pit on there - it was a Collie or herding dog mix - and it was five hundred dollars. For a rescued, adult dog. Sometimes, they do have a non-Pit and they say ridiculous things to scare off anyone who might just think, “Hey, what a pretty dog!” Like the Belgian Malinois mix puppies I saw recently that said nobody would be approved who didn’t have “a forty-foot fence topped with razor wire and with coyote rollers installed”. Or like the Great Pyrenees I just looked up which they will not adopt out to anyone who has no experience with GPs. Basically, if you want a freakin Pit mix or a hound, you’re in great shape. But any desirable breed or mix, nevermind! 

On the puppy sale sites, almost all breeds I look at are well over a thousand dollars and many are more than that. Even mixed breeds that would have once been listed in the Pennysaver for free or for $10 good-faith payment are many hundreds or thousands of dollars. For, say, a Border Collie Mix. 

We also know someone who breeds Doodles (I don’t condone it but it’s not like he asks my permission). He sells them all over the east coast for over $2,000. He did just tell dh, though, that he’s moving the price to $3,000 because every puppy is spoken for before they are even born. He’s retired from his original blue-collar business and just does dogs now because he can live a nice life just on dog profits. 

Aaaaaannnnddd...I’ve only been talking about acquiring the dog to begin with, which says nothing about the other elitist-like assumptions that are made about how you will care for the dog going forward. 

I’m really just feeling a bit dubious about having a dog ever again. My best dog of my life was a little sheltie/Spitz mix named Nika, offered up Free to Good Home when I was 16. She was seriously just the best dog ever - smart, trainable as heck, calm disposition, peaceable manner and beautiful to boot. She lived to be 16yo and never had a health problem until the last year or two when she went blind, deaf and senile (? I guess? Is senile the wrong word?) I feel like, as a society, we said we don’t want backyard mutt accidental litters of puppies - and I am glad we’re not euthanizing homeless puppies like we used to - but I think we have the consequence now that you can’t just get a nice mixed-breed puppy from your piano teacher or the lady down the street anymore. 

And keep in mind that I’m saying the puppies on Lancaster puppies, which many people no doubt find dodgy as a source, are $2,000. So just forget any thoughts that I would rather go to a more legit source, particularly if we were getting a Lab or GSD, but I think, ummm, no; gonna be a no for me, to spend several thousand dollars for a puppy we would have to reserve before it is even born. 

If you read this whole pity party, thank you for listening. I’m feeling like I just don’t like what having a dog seems to have become and I’m sad about it. 

[Tanaqui]

We got our toy poodle from the shelter for $50, plus the neuter deposit (he was too underweight to be neutered before adoption, as NYS law requires, but we got that money back after he was snipped). That's the fee for a senior dog at ACC shelters. We got our chihuahua for $300 from a private shelter, except her previous foster family footed the bill as a gift to her future family.

It's true that both shelters were utterly overloaded on pitties, but there were - and are! - plenty of other dogs available at a reasonable adoption fee.

I'm not saying that you are incorrect about your experience, but I am saying that it's 100% not my experience. (And it's even less my experience with, say, cats. Just a few years ago I picked up some feral kittens from the street to rehome or release.)

Edit: It might be difficult to get a hound from NYC shelters. I know you mention it as a relatively easy-to-find dog where you are. NYC shelters have a lot of pit bulls, and a lot of small breeds, but hounds aren't so popular up here and so don't end up at the shelter as often. (For that matter, I think our chihuahua was brought in from California, where they are overloaded on chihuahuas. Shuffling breeds around to new markets where they might be more adoptable is apparently a well-known thing.)

Edited July 11, 2020 by Tanaqui

[Carrie12345]

Our last big dogs (mixes) were 15 years ago, so it may not be relevant today, but we got them from a puppy rescue with few requirements and a nominal fee. And fully vetted.

We got our chi-mutt free off of a local Facebook group.

I think purebreds are indeed “elite” these days because more people recognize the need for rescuing and because puppy mills are very slowly getting cracked down upon.  As a relative of a notorious backyard breeder, I do think this has caused many (no, not all) breeders to both cut corners and raise prices to try to make up the difference.  The good ones do have all their pups reserved in advance, and there’s the whole supply and demand aspect with price.

A rescue near me has my almost-dream dog right now and it’s breaking my heart because the timing isn’t right. They DO get great dogs, but they go fast.  Many of our rescues take what I guess could be considered waiting lists for people interested in a certain kind of dog. You just can’t predict when another owner is going to give up on theirs.

[Selkie]

Here in the midwest, there is a great variety of dogs at the shelters. Almost all of them get transported up from overloaded southern shelters. Lots of purebreds and adorable mixed breeds. The adoption fees are around $200 for younger dogs and $100-150 for older dogs.

[Laura Corin]

Here the rescues usually only have pitbulls and Jack Russells. There are a couple of organisations that rescue Brittanies and spaniels from Spain, so I'm thinking of doing that.

[Sneezyone]

35 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t know if this is a COVID side-effect just like increase in prices for ground beef and chicken wings, and the fact you can’t buy a fishing pole anywhere, or if this is just the natural outcome I predicted a few years ago, but dog ownership is turning into something you can’t expect to do unless you have a nice cushion of disposable income. 

Sometimes when I’m daydreaming, I go to sites like Lancaster puppies or puppy spot and I look at a couple breeds I’m interested in: German Shepherds, Labs, Aussies and Border Collies usually. Sometimes I go to Petfinder but for real, guys, there is hardly ever any dog that isn’t a Pit mix or a hound mix. Yesterday I saw one non-Pit on there - it was a Collie or herding dog mix - and it was five hundred dollars. For a rescued, adult dog. Sometimes, they do have a non-Pit and they say ridiculous things to scare off anyone who might just think, “Hey, what a pretty dog!” Like the Belgian Malinois mix puppies I saw recently that said nobody would be approved who didn’t have “a forty-foot fence topped with razor wire and with coyote rollers installed”. Or like the Great Pyrenees I just looked up which they will not adopt out to anyone who has no experience with GPs. Basically, if you want a freakin Pit mix or a hound, you’re in great shape. But any desirable breed or mix, nevermind! 

On the puppy sale sites, almost all breeds I look at are well over a thousand dollars and many are more than that. Even mixed breeds that would have once been listed in the Pennysaver for free or for $10 good-faith payment are many hundreds or thousands of dollars. For, say, a Border Collie Mix. 

We also know someone who breeds Doodles (I don’t condone it but it’s not like he asks my permission). He sells them all over the east coast for over $2,000. He did just tell dh, though, that he’s moving the price to $3,000 because every puppy is spoken for before they are even born. He’s retired from his original blue-collar business and just does dogs now because he can live a nice life just on dog profits. 

Aaaaaannnnddd...I’ve only been talking about acquiring the dog to begin with, which says nothing about the other elitist-like assumptions that are made about how you will care for the dog going forward. 

I’m really just feeling a bit dubious about having a dog ever again. My best dog of my life was a little sheltie/Spitz mix named Nika, offered up Free to Good Home when I was 16. She was seriously just the best dog ever - smart, trainable as heck, calm disposition, peaceable manner and beautiful to boot. She lived to be 16yo and never had a health problem until the last year or two when she went blind, deaf and senile (? I guess? Is senile the wrong word?) I feel like, as a society, we said we don’t want backyard mutt accidental litters of puppies - and I am glad we’re not euthanizing homeless puppies like we used to - but I think we have the consequence now that you can’t just get a nice mixed-breed puppy from your piano teacher or the lady down the street anymore. 

And keep in mind that I’m saying the puppies on Lancaster puppies, which many people no doubt find dodgy as a source, are $2,000. So just forget any thoughts that I would rather go to a more legit source, particularly if we were getting a Lab or GSD, but I think, ummm, no; gonna be a no for me, to spend several thousand dollars for a puppy we would have to reserve before it is even born. 

If you read this whole pity party, thank you for listening. I’m feeling like I just don’t like what having a dog seems to have become and I’m sad about it. 

 

Oh wow. We picked up our terrier mix in Hawaii six years ago from a local Humane Society adoption event and she was *****FREE****** with on-site registration available for <$12. We left the "Meet n' Greet" event and went straight to Petsmart for gear, pausing only to text DH a photo of 'our' new dog. She came spayed, chipped, and vaccinated.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

When you adopt from a rescue, though, you aren't really "buying" a dog, you're donating towards the expenses of rescuing, vetting, spay/neutering, etc., all the animals they save. So comparing the "price" of a shelter pet to a purebred, as if shelters are charging an outrageous price for a low-quality "used" product, misses the point of working with a rescue. 

[Ausmumof3]

Only reason we were able to afford the dog we have is because my sis bred her female.  Three of five pups went to people in the family.  Currently working dogs (border collies, kelpies and blue heelers) are exempt from the tight requirements around dog breeding that came in a couple of years ago but otherwise yes.  You may be able to adopt an adult dog but most of them have issues that make them unsuitable for a farm with sheep, chickens and cats.  Yes that stuff can be worked through but starting with a puppy is easier in some ways.

[J-rap]

Our best dogs ever have been the mixed breeds, usually gotten from shelters.  I love thinking that I might be providing a safe and loving home and a second chance to a dog that had been living on the street or abandoned in a field.  

I don't know if we'll get a dog again though.  We're gone from home too much and have way too much going on in our lives.  I do take care of two of my dd's dogs a lot though, sometimes for weeks at a time ~  I love that!  Closest thing I have to grandchildren.  🙂  But if I ever get a dog again, it'll be from a shelter or rescue.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

When you adopt from a rescue, though, you aren't really "buying" a dog, you're donating towards the expenses of rescuing, vetting, spay/neutering, etc., all the animals they save. So comparing the "price" of a shelter pet to a purebred, as if shelters are charging an outrageous price for a low-quality "used" product, misses the point of working with a rescue. 

Right but $500? For an adult, mixed breed rescue? That seems to me like what it probably is, is they bloody well know you can get nothing but a Pitt mix or a hound. Also, I’m not prepared to help a dog with...let’s say, bad side-effects, from being improperly raised to this point. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, J-rap said:

Our best dogs ever have been the mixed breeds, usually gotten from shelters.  I love thinking that I might be providing a safe and loving home and a second chance to a dog that had been living on the street or abandoned in a field.  

I don't know if we'll get a dog again though.  We're gone from home too much and have way too much going on in our lives.  I do take care of two of my dd's dogs a lot though, sometimes for weeks at a time ~  I love that!  Closest thing I have to grandchildren.  🙂  But if I ever get a dog again, it'll be from a shelter or rescue.

I would love that, too, if the right situation would just fall into my lap. I just don’t think that will happen. 

Several years ago, there was a dog I would have adopted. A friend was fostering the dog. It was I guess a Rat Terrier type mix, probably about 25-30 lbs, and just had the best disposition. They called her Buttons; I even would have been willing to use that name for her cute button ears. But we had a dog at that time and were not looking for dogs. 

[RootAnn]

19 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Here in the midwest, there is a great variety of dogs at the shelters. Almost all of them get transported up from overloaded southern shelters. Lots of purebreds and adorable mixed breeds. The adoption fees are around $200 for younger dogs and $100-150 for older dogs.

I'm in the Midwest & this speaks to our situation exactly. 

[Joker]

All of our dogs have been from local rescues and all have been awesome. I don’t think we’ve paid more than $300 for one. Our first we had ten years before he died. The one we have now, we’ve had almost five years and she’s been awesome. In between those two we rescued a senior dog who was deaf and epileptic. We had her less than a year before she died but we were all so happy we took her in. 

There are lots of pit mixes but we’ve had no trouble finding other mixes/breeds. 

[Carrie12345]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

Right but $500? For an adult, mixed breed rescue? That seems to me like what it probably is, is they bloody well know you can get nothing but a Pitt mix or a hound. Also, I’m not prepared to help a dog with...let’s say, bad side-effects, from being improperly raised to this point. 

The fee is definitely not that high in my area.  But I will say that my “free” dog cost me a whole lot more than my rescue fee dogs, lol.  And he isn’t even neutered to this day!  

My favorite rescue here really does do intense evaluating of each dog, which is a terrific thing, but it definitely eliminates potential adopters, too.  I followed one dog online for months that I would have moved heaven and earth for, but they had determined that he didn’t do well with children, lots of noise, or cats, and we’ve got all 3.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Sometimes when I’m daydreaming, I go to sites like Lancaster puppies or puppy spot and I look at a couple breeds I’m interested in: German Shepherds, Labs, Aussies and Border Collies usually. Sometimes I go to Petfinder but for real, guys, there is hardly ever any dog that isn’t a Pit mix or a hound mix. Yesterday I saw one non-Pit on there - it was a Collie or herding dog mix - and it was five hundred dollars. For a rescued, adult dog.

If you want to see other, more desirable dogs follow/like on FB some of the rescue groups in your area. A lot of times here those dogs are posted on FB and are adopted before they ever make it to a Petfinder listing.

Quote

Sometimes, they do have a non-Pit and they say ridiculous things to scare off anyone who might just think, “Hey, what a pretty dog!” Like the Belgian Malinois mix puppies I saw recently that said nobody would be approved who didn’t have “a forty-foot fence topped with razor wire and with coyote rollers installed”. Or like the Great Pyrenees I just looked up which they will not adopt out to anyone who has no experience with GPs. Basically, if you want a freakin Pit mix or a hound, you’re in great shape. But any desirable breed or mix, nevermind!

That to me would make me WANT to work with them. That's a good rescue. IMO nobody should have a GP who doesn't have experience with the breed or another large guardian breed. In general they are NOT a breed for novice owners or those unfamiliar with flock guardians. I say "good, good rescue group."

 

And keep in mind that I’m saying the puppies on Lancaster puppies, which many people no doubt find dodgy as a source, are $2,000. So just forget any thoughts that I would rather go to a more legit source, particularly if we were getting a Lab or GSD, but I think, ummm, no; gonna be a no for me, to spend several thousand dollars for a puppy we would have to reserve before it is even born.

Puppy mill sites, which seem to be what you're looking at, are usually MUCH higher than many reputable breeders. And for the exorbitant cost you often get a very sickly, poorly bred pup that will then cost you a few thousand more in vet bills. Look for a reputable breeder instead.

10 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

When you adopt from a rescue, though, you aren't really "buying" a dog, you're donating towards the expenses of rescuing, vetting, spay/neutering, etc., all the animals they save. So comparing the "price" of a shelter pet to a purebred, as if shelters are charging an outrageous price for a low-quality "used" product, misses the point of working with a rescue. 

Yep. If you (Quill) think $500 is a lot then you probably should really check into the price of a spay/neuter and vaccinations before getting a dog. 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I do understand the frustration and sadness of wanting a pet and not being able to find the right one.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Pawz4me
Sigh. I hate it when the quoting messes up!!

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I think some rescues are just nuts tbh. And they wonder why people don't adopt from them, but some have seriously misaligned expectations. I would look at the SPCA, or whatever your country rescue/pounds have because I assure you- they are unlikely to be $500. Sometimes they are begging for adoptions and do two for ones, all sorts of things. 

Breeders are a different story. But I don't think it's unrealistic for a reputable breeder to be charging $2500+ for a dog. A reputable breeder is usually involved in showing or competing and there are steep costs for that. Not to mention the care of the dogs and the puppies, and all the genetics and health tests run now. I'm sure a lot of backyard breeders try and piggie back on that price, but that's honestly the buyers fault for not vetting the breeder better and overpaying for nothing. 

And some “reputable” breeders charge these kind of prices and it turns out that the guarantee actually means that if your one year old dog you and your kids are attached to has extremely expensive to fix genetic health issues is that they will take the dog back and give you another puppy. Which is definitely not a solution!

the issue is to some degree with the showing standards etc.  breeding dogs to unrealistic appearance based standards seems to contribute to inbreeding and health issues.  

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

The fee is definitely not that high in my area.  But I will say that my “free” dog cost me a whole lot more than my rescue fee dogs, lol.  And he isn’t even neutered to this day!  

My favorite rescue here really does do intense evaluating of each dog, which is a terrific thing, but it definitely eliminates potential adopters, too.  I followed one dog online for months that I would have moved heaven and earth for, but they had determined that he didn’t do well with children, lots of noise, or cats, and we’ve got all 3.

 

The papers for our dog said she wasn't good with children but, turns out, she's great with *HER* children, just no one outside her family pack, lol. She intensely dislikes and yells at anyone who even walks down our block, lol. At the adoption event, she loved on our kids and didn't even attempt to bite. I think she was confused with a sibling from her litter that we met first. The sibling was AWFUL with kids.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Tanaqui]

17 minutes ago, Quill said:

Right but $500? For an adult, mixed breed rescue? That seems to me like what it probably is, is they bloody well know you can get nothing but a Pitt mix or a hound. Also, I’m not prepared to help a dog with...let’s say, bad side-effects, from being improperly raised to this point. 

 

So, Quill, how do you want your local shelter to defray the cost of housing, feeding, neutering, and vaccinating these animals?

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I don't factor in guarantee- honestly a breeder with a guarantee is a put off to me. Now, someone who says they want the dog back if for some reason the owner can't keep it? That's a different story. But guarantees are worthless- I mean, what are they going to do? Say return he puppy and get a new one? No one can guarantee anything when it comes to living beings.

What I want to see if the actual health screens and certifications. I want to know the longevity of the bloodline, I want to see the genetic screens, the holter tests, and then I will roll the dice. I want to see titles on the parents, and I want to see the parents if at all possible, and at least the bitch if I can't see the stud. I want to see the kennel, and I want to have more than one visit with the puppy. So I am picky, but I also usually end up with the dog I want. Every purebred is going to have health issues- but if you know what they are you can at least go in with your eyes open. 

See here’s the thing.  Back in the day ny parents used to have a working dog have pups every couple of years.  Most went to family and friends so we know the outcome.  Not one single genetic issue.  Whereas the whole purebred pedigree thing here there are so many problems.  But we now have laws really restricting any other kind of breeding.  
 

I do wonder if this is a bigger problem for Australia because smaller population equals smaller pool of available breeding dogs meaning more line breeding etc.  some breeders will bring in dogs from overseas but many don’t. 
 

and then you know there are the dogs like frenchies that can almost not give birth without a c section and suffer breathing issues etc.  I cannot see how breeding a farm dog and producing a few healthy pups is crueller than creating a dog that literally cannot survive without extensive veterinary care.  Also I have seen people with plenty of money who buy a puppy and when it becomes an inconvenience give it up at the drop of a hat.  And I’ve seen people without who literally go without food to provide vet care for their dog.

lol... I have gone on a bit of a rant and it’s not all directed at you.  It’s a generalised frustration with the way things have turned out down here.

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

So, Quill, how do you want your local shelter to defray the cost of housing, feeding, neutering, and vaccinating these animals?

I’m not quill but I think the issue is less about what the shelters are changing and more about the lack of availability of not extremely expensive pedigree dogs though?

[Paige]

Some dogs are way too expensive to me for a rescue but I think bargain dogs are no bargain. We got mine from a rescue for $350- I think some I see for $500+ are too high, but I think our fee was fair. She came spayed, current on shots, microchipped, and cared for very well in a foster home. Her mom had to have an emergency c-section in the rescue and that had to have been expensive. I know the adoption fees help other animals in the rescue who are very sick. 

I work with a foster/rescue group now and they just had to raise their fees for dogs to $300 from $200 because vet fees for dogs are so high around here. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I definitely was not trying to speak to anything outside of the US. The rules around breeding sound so much different. I can only use and speak to my own experience. I am a Dobie person and Dobies have some certain health issues, which imo, makes it pretty foolhardy not to get a screen and know the parents history so you can weigh odds. Is the dog likely to keel over at 6 or higher bet, 10 or 12? No guarantee but more information is always good . Some of the problems with Dobies are due to dwindling popularity, to your point there is more inbreeding, but then again some of the issues are consistent across breeds. Labs abound and aren’t inbred to near the extent but they still have issues.......DCM, for instance is one of the top Dobie med issues, but is not a Dobie only risk. Lots of breeds are at risk for DCM, and to make it even more confusing you can get positives on both DCM genes and gave a dog still outlive a double negative dog. They definitely have not unlocked the box. And  I think mutts often get out of being associated with some health problems because no one knows what the hell they are anyway, and no one is logging a database of mutt deaths whereas you have veterinary colleges and breed associations who are very vested in breed problems. Anyway, I think it’s hard to point a direct finger on all health issues. All living things have health issues in a general population. 
 

I agree that it was probably easier in the past if you knew someone with a great line of working dogs and something about the general outcomes you could easily get a dog without really worrying much about any screening. But then again also, no one was trying to guilt you into a hip replacement or anything. If the dog got crippled it got put down. Things have gotten murkier now I think with extraordinary measures to give dogs this new “standard of living” that people just didn’t have for dogs 30 years ago. At least here. People weren’t being told they needed to brush their dogs teeth and get yearly cleaning and didn’t have options for dog chemo etc etc which I think muddies the water a bit. 
 

We just got a lab, as I posted in the cute thread and we wanted a working lab because I’m done with Chessies. I did not want a pretty, but lazy blockhead lab that couldn’t hunt in a field for 6 hours, an unlike Chessies there are most definitely non-working labs. So short of knowing someone who bred that exact sort of dog,  I had no choice than to look at titles because I can’t just take someone’s word for it. I knew I wanted master hunters on both sides- some breeders still breed for work. Conversely we are getting another Dobie and I wanted a show line, not a Euro working line because I didn’t want a bristled personality. So again, I meet the dogs and all of that but seeing them in person gives me a very small window. A nice line of titles gives me the best information I can get now that I can’t easily find one down the road. 

Yeah with dog breeds bred to do specific jobs finding breeders who still have links to that is definitely worthwhile.  They are far more likely to take temperament into account and you’re much more likely to get the traits you selected the breed for.  Lots of the issues are around dogs that have become very removed from their original function.  And  yes I agree the expectations around health care are certainly higher now.   all

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

x100. And yet somehow, here in the US at least,  in this it's responsible breeders that have often become the bad guys instead of just irresponsible pet breeders. It's almost like people think No Breeder is a Good Breeder. What people don't get is if you actually want a working dog for a specific job you need a specific breed. I find it aggravating that some people now expect a person to justify owning a pure bred. To me THAT is where the most elitism comes into the dog world. There's nothing wrong with wanting a specific set of qualities from a dog you are going to use for a specific purpose. 

Yeah it’s interesting.  When I think of mixed breed I tend to think of say a collie cross kelpie or a kelpie cross heeler.  Which are all working breeds with a similar set of traits.  Not so much doodles or crosses like that.  
 

and even then there are issues with people thinking they can keep a working dog in a small yard while everyone disappears to work all day.  Maybe this is one of those rural versus city things.

[Terabith]

Around here the only dogs that are available at the shelter are pits or Chihuahuas.  I'm not in the market for a dog, but every few months, I browse through the shelter web pages and facebook groups and look.  Once in awhile there will be a terrier or a hound mix.  But 95% of the time it's pits or Chihuahuas.  

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

So, Quill, how do you want your local shelter to defray the cost of housing, feeding, neutering, and vaccinating these animals?

I don’t know; I’m not saying I have a solution, but this was an adult dog; it may have been spayed already. It may not have needed much for vaccinations. And shelters don’t pay regular vet price for vaxes. I think they generally get them bulk Otc and give the shots themselves. 

I just think they know it’s more desirable because it’s a mix of more desirable breeds. I would bet money they aren’t requesting $500 for Pitt mixes they can barely give away. 

[PrincessMommy]

 @Quill It was this way when we were looking for our dog several years ago.  I remember venting here about it and someone commented that it's easier to adopt a human child than it is the rescue a dog.

[PrincessMommy]

5 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

This happens so much. It's so sad. I cringe when I hear people here say "we're getting a husky" or a herding dog or so many things when I know they have a yard not even big enough for a swing set. I never want to be the hall monitor, but I always want to say "hey, have you thought of a nice lazy dumb dog instead?! Couch potatoes are underrated!" 

When we were looking for our dog I specifically told rescues- we wanted a lazy old dog.  I didn't want a puppy, and I didn't want a working/herding dog.  I knew what would best serve our family.  But, nearly all the rescues required that you promised to walk your dog 30+ minutes a day... they wanted to make sure your house did not have toys within reach of the dog (seriously - we got turned down because my son had legos on his floor).   And of course, just about everyone required a fence-  even though we promised that we would walk the dog 30+ mins a day.  Ugh.  Our dog loves to go for a walk - for about 10 mins... and then he starts walking back home.  🙂  He' s my lazy old man. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by PrincessMommy

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 The local SPCA’s here average at least $325 for adult dogs, with pups going for over $400. I’ve never ever seen a BOGO type deal here.

Breeders of purebred, and they’re not always “reputable” and many are just back yard breeders, charge $2000+ for Golden Retrievers and Doodle types. 

I think it’s totally different in certain parts of the country. Dogs are much more scarce, people don’t let them run loose, you don’t see dead dogs hit by cars on the roadsides, and puppies, no matter the breed, are sold for a lot of $.

I have literally never seen a dead dog left by the side of the road!

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t know; I’m not saying I have a solution, but this was an adult dog; it may have been spayed already. It may not have needed much for vaccinations. And shelters don’t pay regular vet price for vaxes. I think they generally get them bulk Otc and give the shots themselves. 

I just think they know it’s more desirable because it’s a mix of more desirable breeds. I would bet money they aren’t requesting $500 for Pitt mixes they can barely give away. 

If the dog was picked up by animal control then it almost certainly needed to be spayed or neutered. The shelter would also have fully vaccinated it, because it's highly unlikely they would have known the vaccination status. So they assume the dog has had none. Municipal shelters usually have at least a full time vet tech to give animals an exam and vaccinate them. That salary has to be covered.

 

2 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

This happens so much. It's so sad. I cringe when I hear people here say "we're getting a husky" or a herding dog or so many things when I know they have a yard not even big enough for a swing set. I never want to be the hall monitor, but I always want to say "hey, have you thought of a nice lazy dumb dog instead?! Couch potatoes are underrated!" 

Yep. I will never forget the first time I heard Patricia McConnell say "Dumb is good." She was referring, of course, to what was good for most pet owners. Way too many people focus solely on looks and give not one thought or care to what the dog was bred to do or it's physical exercise or mental stimulation needs. They just want the dog whose looks appeal to them, and they also expect it to behave like a stuffed animal. They expect to house train a puppy in two days and expect an adopted adult dog to be perfectly behaved. It makes me crazy. 

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I can see how the SPCAs would be regional in that case. 

But for the bolded- that's on the buyer for not being thorough enough and/or patient enough to do their homework. I personally wouldn't pay $2k for a backyard breeder when I could go spend 3k or so for an actual reputable breeder with all the info I want. And although I get that's a 1k difference, if you're spending $2k on a dog, then save up and spend the extra $1k on the more responsibly bred dog, you know? If you have 2k to spend on the dog I'm not accepting the 1k is worth quibbling on.

That being said,  there's obviously a supply and demand issue it would seem like. I've seen Frenchies here list for $10k and that is just nuts to me, but again- I'm not trying to hall minitor. But I also don't think people have room to complain when they have issues with their $2k dog they got from someone on FB ends up being a bit dodgy. 

See here’s the thing.  My sis was technically a backyard breeder.  Yet she’s incredibly invested in the two litters of pups she’s bred, following up, giving advice, dog sitting when the owners were on holidays.  Versus the situation I mentioned above.  I know you said you wouldn’t take a guarantee to mean anything but the breeder my friend got the pup from was a “reputable breeder” who said all the right things, has a fancy website, had vet checks on the dogs etc.  however she’s still breeding from the female who produced the dog with genetic issues.  I think the only way to really know is to spend a lot of time talking to people or get recommendations from people you know personally.  Because some breeders in all honesty are just exceptionally good business people who care more about money than animal welfare.  They regime their breeding stock once they are passed the age of breeding.  Sure they don’t simp them but rehoming is still stressful for the animals.  And then there’s “backyard” breeders who breed a litter of pups from a much loved dog that will love out it’s life at It’s own family home.  There’s no way to know without really knowing the people involved.

[Pawz4me]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

See here’s the thing.  My sis was technically a backyard breeder.  Yet she’s incredibly invested in the two litters of pups she’s bred, following up, giving advice, dog sitting when the owners were on holidays.  Versus the situation I mentioned above.  I know you said you wouldn’t take a guarantee to mean anything but the breeder my friend got the pup from was a “reputable breeder” who said all the right things, has a fancy website, had vet checks on the dogs etc.  however she’s still breeding from the female who produced the dog with genetic issues.  I think the only way to really know is to spend a lot of time talking to people or get recommendations from people you know personally.  Because some breeders in all honesty are just exceptionally good business people who care more about money than animal welfare.  They regime their breeding stock once they are passed the age of breeding.  Sure they don’t simp them but rehoming is still stressful for the animals.  And then there’s “backyard” breeders who breed a litter of pups from a much loved dog that will love out it’s life at It’s own family home.  There’s no way to know without really knowing the people involved.

There's no set definition for backyard breeder. I wouldn't consider your sister one. I'd call her something along the lines of "hobbyist breeder" and IME they're often the best kind of breeder. To me a BYB is someone who owns some dogs (often quite a few) and is churning out puppies as quickly as possible and is only interested in the money. A puppy mill on a small scale.

[CAtoVA]

The hound we can't get anywhere local and for less than $1200 from a far away breeder is  a Bassett Hound. After 1 year of searching via my local (multi-state) rescue organization we finally were matched with a Bagle (1/4 Beagle/3/4 Bassett Hound). They very rarely have a pure bred Bassett who isn't in need of major care or about 12 years old. They have mostly mixes and some of them you would be hard pressed to find any Basset at all. Our Bagle is fantastic and we have had him for about 5 years. However, he is about 10-11 and we want another dog to phase into the household. 

Our local shelter only has large hunting hounds like Foxhounds, Rottweilers, and Pitbulls. Craigslist is a scam and the breeders for anything around here want $1200 or more. If you know of a state/shelter/breeder of Basset Hounds or Dachshund let me know please! I would travel to some extent. This truly is a problem in many areas of the country and I don't know why. 

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

There's no set definition for backyard breeder. I wouldn't consider your sister one. I'd call her something along the lines of "hobbyist breeder" and IME they're often the best kind of breeder. To me a BYB is someone who owns some dogs (often quite a few) and is churning out puppies as quickly as possible and is only interested in the money. A puppy mill on a small scale.

Hmm I haven’t heard that distinction before.  And yes I know someone who fits in the latter category.  Incidentally they are the ones charging almost $2000 per pup as well.  To me a backyard breeder just means someone who breeds at home in a backyard.

[Ausmumof3]

I guess the good news of shelters never having the breed of dog you want is that they are mostly working out well in the homes they go to!  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dogs over 6 months old are $200 at our local Humane Society.  Puppies under 6 months are $400.  But they have different "sales" (not called that - called events, I guess) where all dogs over 1 year are much less.  Even our puppy, was less because we got her during an adoption event. 

I'm fairly sure that if I added up the cost of veterinary care, spaying/neutering, vaccinations, and food that it would come close to $200 at least. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

PS - on our Humane Society page it says "when you adopt from us you receive more than $570 worth of services". 

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Not to sideline your thread Quill, but I would be interested to know what people think is reasonable for which breeds of dogs. I feel like expectations and realities are different as far as breeder costs, and also feeling like maybe I'm just in a bubble. Maybe a s/o? 

I guess here’s where the “hobbyist” versus professional thing comes into play.  For a dog that’s already a family pet where you have one or two litters of pups you’re not necessarily looking to cover the entire cost of dog ownership because they are expenses you have anyway.  You need to cover the cost of vet care and puppy vaccinations and maybe the potential for rehoming one of the pups down the track.  Maybe a stud fee.  Costs are different here to there but i think the full vaccinations for puppies are $120 each roughly sometimes less.  Vet care is going to vary depending on complications etc and the amount you need per pup to cover those costs depends on litter size.  
 

but if you are talking about a professional breeder whose trying to make an income you also need to cover Breed club registration costs and all expenses related to the care of the breeding animal for its whole life and make something for your time an effort.  
 

I think that’s why the push to close down at home breeding versus professional operations makes puppies so much more expensive.

[RootAnn]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

the fact you can’t buy a fishing pole anywhere

This is another regional thing. My DH got a nice one at the end of June for DS.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Also - in our area there is also a regional animal shelter.  The prices there are even less than at the Humane society.  Dogs over 6 months are $100 - $250.  Puppies under 6 months are $100 to $250 as well.  In some harder to adopt animals the fees are waived completely. 

[Selkie]

57 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t know; I’m not saying I have a solution, but this was an adult dog; it may have been spayed already. It may not have needed much for vaccinations. And shelters don’t pay regular vet price for vaxes. I think they generally get them bulk Otc and give the shots themselves. 

I just think they know it’s more desirable because it’s a mix of more desirable breeds. I would bet money they aren’t requesting $500 for Pitt mixes they can barely give away. 

At the shelters here, all breeds are the same cost to adopt. They only differentiate by age (puppies and younger dogs are $200 vs. $100-150 for older dogs). I live in an area where the adoption rates are very high, and even the pit bulls get adopted. There is actually a shortage of adoptable dogs here, which is why the shelters are constantly getting truckloads and planeloads of dogs from southern states.

Adopting is a huge bargain here, because the animals are already vaccinated, spayed/neutered, and microchipped. Our vet charges $450 for a spay surgery. Neutering is less, not sure of the exact cost. Microchipping is $75. By the time you add in vaccinations, you are looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000.

[Ausmumof3]

Just out of curiosity I checked our RSPCA for my state.  They have six dogs available.  Two can’t be with kids, one can’t be with cats.  Adoption fees are $250 which is less than I spent on getting all the vetwork done for our pup.  One is old enough that I’d be expecting some expensive vet care in the near future.  Other than one boxer mix they are all either staffy or working dog crosses. They weren’t dogs I would consider suitable for a working family though they would be ok for a homeschooling family or who are willing to take the time to exercise them enough. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[CAtoVA]

That's funny about fishing poles. My DS was given one this morning.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I haven't ever known a breeder who didn't have a separate, primary income. Do some people actually sole support on being a breeder? I don't know a single breeder in it for the money. They tend to hemorrhage money on their dogs. But as mentioned, there are definitely different distinctions of breeders- not to mention puppy mills. 😞

But even charging, let's say $2500 a puppy. I don't think that's out of line. You have so much going in. Like you mention, you have reg costs, and show/qual costs if you participate in that. Transport, etc. to get the dog titled out in advance. Stud fee, then the uncertainty of the breeding for one, the vet care of the bitch, the prenatal care, and then oh my word, the hours invested in the puppies. People blanch at the thought of several thousand for a puppy, but I am not sure how many people have ever taken care of a whole litter of puppies!  It is a lot of work!! And then you have tails, and dews, and maybe ears for some breeds. Our Dobie breeders fly in a specific vet from MT to do ears! And like you mention, shots, and worming and meds..... food and supplies. Perhaps a hernia fix here or there.......and you're feeding all of them, socializing them, etc. etc. for 8-12 weeks! Once you split it into profit per hour, you're in the hole for sure! 

Yeah for sure.  But that’s where the people who are only doing a litter or two so they can have a pup if there own or give one to a family member used to fill a hole that’s not necessarily filled by people who are looking to cover all that.  But that type of breeding is discouraged here.  This has definitely reduced numbers in shelters etc but has also pushed up costs to the point that many average families can’t afford it.  Sure $3000 might be reasonable to cover all costs but it’s not an amount of money that would easily be come up with in my family.  If we end up with a bill like that for vet care it will go on the credit card and be paid off slowly.  And we are fairly well off compared to many families.  
 

and yes I have taken care of a litter of five pups myself.  Thankfully in spite of needing a c section the pups fed well.  It is a lot of work but I wasn’t looking to be paid for my work I guess.  Just enough to cover the vet bills.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I don’t know; I’m not saying I have a solution, but this was an adult dog; it may have been spayed already. It may not have needed much for vaccinations. And shelters don’t pay regular vet price for vaxes. I think they generally get them bulk Otc and give the shots themselves. 

You'd be surprised how many people don't bother to spay or neuter their dogs. I follow several dog rescues, and it's a rare dog they take in that doesn't need spay/neuter surgery. Many dogs that are surrendered or abandoned have not had good care, they often need expensive dental cleanings and other medical procedures — one of the most common reasons for abandoning pets is that they need medical treatment that the owner either can't afford or just doesn't want to pay for, and dogs picked up off the streets often have a host of problems. And unless a dog is an owner surrender with full vet records, the rescue will have to redo all the vaccinations anyway.
 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I just think they know it’s more desirable because it’s a mix of more desirable breeds. I would bet money they aren’t requesting $500 for Pitt mixes they can barely give away. 

You make it sound like they are somehow cheating or being dishonest to have higher fees for the dogs everyone wants, but why is it a bad thing if they use some of the fees for the more "desirable" dogs to help defray the costs of dogs that are hard to place or may never find homes? And unlike backyard breeders or puppy mills that charge thousands that go directly into their pockets, shelters & rescues are using those fees to save more lives.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m not quill but I think the issue is less about what the shelters are changing and more about the lack of availability of not extremely expensive pedigree dogs though?

It’s partially that, but also, it’s not just that they are extremely expensive purebred dogs. It’s that “nothing” intentional crosses and straight-up mixes are the same price as purebred dogs. Then, there are AKC registered dogs (which I would want if I were going to the trouble of getting a purebred dog) but there is also “ACA” registered, which, I’m not totally certain, but I think that is sort of a bogus designation meant to add an idea of legitimacy to dogs that are essentially mutts. 

And if I am looking for a dog with reliable traits, then I know I want one of these few breeds, but there are none of those at rescues OR, they turn up but are snapped up immediately. 

A friend of mine was trying to get a Doodle, but also (morally speaking) wanted to take an unwanted dog. But that is the problem: Doodles are not unwanted unless there’s something extremely wrong with them. Her parents ended up buying her a Doodle as a gift. Another friend wanted a Doodle, too; same scenario. They took one that was “rescued” from a breeder. They wound up sending the dog back because it did literally thousands of dollars in damage to their house, furniture and car. (We also by happenstance know that the next person who got that dog “let” it get lost and they didn’t want the dog back. But that is a whole other story.) 

It doesn’t seem to me you can just get a nice mutt anymore unless you just stumble on the right thing at the right time. 

[Ausmumof3]

28 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

@Ausmumof3 what all are the restrictions there if you don’t mind sharing? The only ones here (maybe some munipalities vary?) are what the breed orgs will recognize. As in, if you have a dog with limited registration you wouldn’t be able to register the puppies....but that’s about it. Some areas have breed bans and some insurance companies won’t cover breeds but we don’t have legislation beyond general animal welfare and zoning Regs to my knowledge. 

All dogs have to be microchipped and all dogs have to be desexed by six months of age.  Otherwise you have to register as a breeder.  When you register you have to meet this set of guidelines

https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/files/sharedassets/public/plants_and_animals/standards-and-guidelines-for-breeding-and-trading-of-companion-animals-gen.pdf

they are not all bad and it’s not all bad that there are movements in this direction.  Definitely there was room for improvement in the no system at all we had before.  

 

[rebcoola]

We had a similar experience.  $500 was a cheap mutt.   Most rescues won't adopt to us because we have the little one.  The humane society only has a handful of dogs at $350 they go fast.  We finally found our dog which is a pit mix but their were others on a Facebook page for selling and rehoming.

[Lori D.]

While I don't agree with the subject title that "dog ownership has become elitist" (although I do see a lot of people walking around with "purse dogs" as a style statement, so that might be elitist 😉 ) -- I would certainly agree that it has become *expensive*.

Health care costs for animals has skyrocketed, just as human health care costs have. And, at least in my area, I'm seeing a higher number of dogs getting hit with expensive and long-term health issues -- Valley Fever is pervasive here; heart worm is starting to creep into our area; more dogs seem to be getting cancer; each of the full-blood breeds seem to developing a high rate of health issues, such as hip dysplasia, thyroid issues, diabetes, cancers, etc...😞 

I do think OP must be living in a high-cost area. I'm in the Southwest, and a humane society adoption costs $80 (+ spaying/neutering, if the animal has not already had that done).

There are also a lot of breed-specific rescue organizations, and esp. if you're willing to drive to another city, or even another state, you can have choices.

Or, possibly try fostering a dog -- I've heard a lot of stories where fostering turned into adopting, because the dog ended up being a good fit for the fostering family, even though it wasn't the breed or the type of dog the family was originally envisioning.

Another possibility is to volunteer. We got to adopt our current dog for FREE, because she was a career change from Guide Dogs, because we are part of the puppy raising group where she was raised. Guide Dogs has their own breeding program, for health, temperament and trainability, and our dog has a wonderful temperament and was incredibly well-trained when we adopted her. There are no guarantees that if you raise a puppy or do puppy sitting that a career change will become available for you to adopt, BUT, you get to have wonderful puppies in your home, and be a part of an amazing service to the sight-impaired -- or other person needing a service dog (if the guide dog puppy ends up getting shifted to another service organization).

BEST of luck in finding a way of adding a furry four-footed member to your family. 😄 Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Lori D.

[Paige]

It only costs $20 to adopt a dog from our animal control. I don’t know what you get for that- shots or spay/neuter. 

[Ausmumof3]

16 minutes ago, Quill said:

It’s partially that, but also, it’s not just that they are extremely expensive purebred dogs. It’s that “nothing” intentional crosses and straight-up mixes are the same price as purebred dogs. Then, there are AKC registered dogs (which I would want if I were going to the trouble of getting a purebred dog) but there is also “ACA” registered, which, I’m not totally certain, but I think that is sort of a bogus designation meant to add an idea of legitimacy to dogs that are essentially mutts. 

And if I am looking for a dog with reliable traits, then I know I want one of these few breeds, but there are none of those at rescues OR, they turn up but are snapped up immediately. 

A friend of mine was trying to get a Doodle, but also (morally speaking) wanted to take an unwanted dog. But that is the problem: Doodles are not unwanted unless there’s something extremely wrong with them. Her parents ended up buying her a Doodle as a gift. Another friend wanted a Doodle, too; same scenario. They took one that was “rescued” from a breeder. They wound up sending the dog back because it did literally thousands of dollars in damage to their house, furniture and car. (We also by happenstance know that the next person who got that dog “let” it get lost and they didn’t want the dog back. But that is a whole other story.) 

It doesn’t seem to me you can just get a nice mutt anymore unless you just stumble on the right thing at the right time. 

Hmm well I think that’s a bit of an either or. I wouldn’t necessarily expect to be able to get a purebred dog with reliable traits from a rescue.  It may actually be that in some areas numbers have been reduced to the point that adopt don’t shop is less of an option.