Will people put up with this long-term?

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

Kids got sent home. 

I don’t see the flagrant disregard of social distancing and stay-at-home directives so many of you are experiencing, with the exception of Lowes. 
 

We will never know what state actions had impact and which just served no purpose. I will not argue about that. But I buy the the drunk with power assessment. 

 

Come to VA Beach and Chesapeake. Specifically, Great Bridge and Hickory. You, yourself, posted a flagrant disregard of the stay at home orders so...yeah...

Edited March 30, 2020 by Sneezyone

[SamanthaCarter]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

 

Come to VA Beach and Chesapeake. Specifically, Great Bridge and Hickory.

No thanks. lol. I’ll stick with my ghost town. 

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

No thanks. lol. I’ll stick with my ghost town. 

You and everyone else around here seems to think Being a ‘ghost town’ is protection against this. It’s not. We had four confirmed cases on Friday. There are only a handful of counties left that don’t have cases. 

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

it is terribly ironic, and pathetically sad, that jim jones having his flock drink poisoned Kool-Aid seems merciful to what these morons are doing.  But then, jim jones wanted to commit suicide and take his followers with him.   these cretins still want their lavish lifestyle that they can only fund on the backs on the gullible.  those who die from this generally do so slowly, and very painfully. 

- and incidently I think that includes liberty university keeping their doors open (so they don't have to give refunds, or set up distance learning, and now they have at least four sick students), and some dean of a fine arts school (with $58K tuition)  who is refusing to give refunds.  -

What fine arts school is refusing to give refunds?  I hadn’t heard that one.  My niece is a conservatory student, but I haven’t asked my sister about refunds at the school...I don’t want to unintentionally open a wound if it happens to be hers.

[regentrude]

56 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Absolutely,  My daughter who is a senior has already given up so much.  She only has one dual credit class, so she just sleeps.  She has nothing else to do. There are not a ton of those types of volunteer jobs.  All the oil and gas guys need to be able to take some of those jobs as well, if there are any.  So she can't work, which was my original plan.  So she just stays in her bed all day.  She plays with her 23yo brother at night.  That is about all there is for them to do.

I am sorry. That sounds very concerning and sounds like she may be developing depression. 
I am very worried about people's mental health. The fallout will be horrendous.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Eliana said:

The economic impacts of *not* shutting down will be as devastating, if not more so, than of the shut down.

There is not a way through this that does not involve social and economic costs.  We can't just go back to normal life and lock up the elderly and immunocompromised (and diabetics & folks with high blood pressure, etc) and have our social, economic, or medical systems hum along as normal. (and there is no one who isn't at risk from this - children have died, young adults have died, healthy people with no underlying health conditions have died.  And some survivors are dealing with serious long-term health impacts)

We can take stringent measures now & pay the costs necessary to keep everyone fed & housed and things functioning.

Or we can have this sweep through our country and devastate our medical systems, wreak havoc on our economic stability, and kill a staggering number of people...

We need to start focusing on how we can deal with this difficult reality as effective and speedily as possible, and part of that involves accepting that we can't just rush back to normal life, we need to figure out how to mitigate the costs of what needs to be done.  It isn't helpful to lament the costs or the inconveniences as if by objecting to them enough we can escape from them.  (Absolutely there is a place for grieving and venting and such!  But it isn't part of solution finding, it's part of coping with the hard stuff).

 

 

THIS
people need to understand - it's already killing medical personnel - a professor of pathology from the UW died from this.  it's estimated at least 50 medical personnel/doctors/nurses in Italy have died from this.  While china hasn't stated how many medical personnel they lost (and we know some have died) - it has gotten out they were threatening medical personnel with jail if they didn't stay in the most affected hospitals. - which is something that happens in epidemics/pandemics.  when the drs and nurses start dying enmass - you get drs and nurses who flee in fear for their own lives.

it takes YEARS to train a dr.  this will kill one in days.

I have a RN niece who has tested negative - but had symptoms.  My pregnant daughter doesn't work directly with patients, but she's still in the hospital working directly with drs and nurses.  still strips off as she walks in the door putting her scrubs in the washer,  and goes directly to a shower.

 

all those "memes" of medical personnel holding up signs saying "I stayed here for you, you stay home for me" - isnt' just some feel good meme, they're as serious as could possibly be.

eta: there are at least two other drs in this area who were treating patients who have contracted this.  I don't know there status.  for every dr who gets sick, is one less to be able to treat someone else who is sick.

Edited March 30, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

44 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

@soror  I have told DD she isnt going back this year, no matter what the school says.  I think your school and mine will both end up canceling everything, but even if they do not, dont send him back.   Not worth it!  

For those with older kids, what about summer projects like z garden,  writing a story,  making videos, perfecting cooking skills- decorating cookies or real food, working on a skill like drawing- so many things to do!  

My oldest is a Junior and after 2 weeks of complaining I told her enough negative talk.  Every kid world wide is facing the same thing!  Get over it.  It's called LIFE and things dont always turn out the way you thought.  If all of your friends are complaining,  too- stop listening.   It's making them more negative!  We need our kids to find things they can do- keep their sense of duty and humor 😉 This virus is going to impact every single person on Earth in a negative way.  We are more blessed than most.  I want my teens to find projects to do, online classes to take, ect and to stay busy.

 

I agree.  I have been taking a similar approach. 

 

[AngieC]

6 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

What fine arts school is refusing to give refunds?  I hadn’t heard that one.  My niece is a conservatory student, but I haven’t asked my sister about refunds at the school...I don’t want to unintentionally open a wound if it happens to be hers.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nyu-dean-sends-dance-video-in-response-to-students-petitioning-for-tuition-refund/

 

NYU. The university my husband teaches at isn't giving tuition refunds, either, but his isn't a fine art school, so not sure it's really comprable.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

I agree.  I have been taking a similar approach. 

 

Same. My HYPER social teen is doing 100 burpees, 100 sit-ups, and 100 pushups every day. I hear the incessant thump-bumps. This is IN ADDITION to pushing the rest of our introverted household to play badminton and volleyball. She also runs and is launching her Roblox 'school' next week. This kiddo has boundless energy. I have heard complaints about disrupted drivers ed, sweet 16 birthday parties, summer earning opportunities...you name it. I HOPE and pray this will build resilience and self-reliance.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Murphy101]

25 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

We will never know what state actions had impact and which just served no purpose. I will not argue about that. But I buy the the drunk with power assessment. 

That’s utter nonsense. The only thing that’s right in that paragraph is that we can’t argue about it. There is nothing to argue bc we already know that countries and principalities that took swift and wide action early are doing better than other places. We already know for a fact with hindsight looking at other places, that if those other places had done things differently, their odds of a better today would be exponentially better than it currently is.

No one drunk with power wants to stop people from going to school.  Even Hilter in his power drunkenness mandated everyone TO school. Not out of it.

good grief. 
 

smh

[gardenmom5]

25 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

What fine arts school is refusing to give refunds?  I hadn’t heard that one.  My niece is a conservatory student, but I haven’t asked my sister about refunds at the school...I don’t want to unintentionally open a wound if it happens to be hers.

I don't recall which one - the dean did a VIDEO dance sing-a-long explaining about how they were doing refunds. I thought it rather immature and moronic.  I didnt' pay too much attention as for me, there are more important things to pay attention to right now.

Edited March 30, 2020 by gardenmom5
spelling

[gardenmom5]

7 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

That’s utter nonsense. The only thing that’s right in that paragraph is that we can’t argue about it. There is nothing to argue bc we already know that countries and principalities that took swift and wide action early are doing better than other places. We already know for a fact with hindsight looking at other places, that if those other places had done things differently, their odds of a better today would be exponentially better than it currently is.

No one drunk with power wants to stop people from going to school.  Even Hilter in his power drunkenness mandated everyone TO school. Not out of it.

good grief. 
 

smh

well - the khmer rouge killed those with education, and closed the schools.

my state was one of the first to close schools state-wide - until late april.  (and we'll see if they're reopened then.) I was glad they did, (and finally issued a shelter in place order.)  we were the first state to be hit, and still come in second in death toll after NY.

eta: the UW is doing all online this quarter.  my son is still getting his classes. I don't know how it's working for those kids who were living on campus, or what their status is.  online school for k-12 has been pretty hit and miss for how it's working.

Edited March 30, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Murphy101]

48 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That seems very mentally unhealthy——  even if she can’t leave the house there are things to do.  Cook and clean and read and go for walk on your 50 acres.  I would not allow my high school senior to stay in bed all day.  

This. I have a newly minted 18 yr old home from her first year at college and a 21 yr old, plus 3 other teens and 3 younger ones. No one is laying in bed unless they are sick. And even those I make get up and shower and move about a bit. We all have chores, we all play board games or card games or whatever. I join in. The older kids join in. Dh joins in. There’s always something to do.  

24 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

You and everyone else around here seems to think Being a ‘ghost town’ is protection against this. It’s not. We had four confirmed cases on Friday. There are only a handful of counties left that don’t have cases. 

Right?  One reason I didn’t want my dd back at college is I know for a fact there are no medical care options there. They have a 15 bed “hospital” and a 2 room urgent care.  That’s it. Even without a pandemic, anything needing emergency surgery or whatever would have gotten you a life flight or an ambulance to the nearest medical care 1.5 hrs away.  I hope no one in my house needs medical treatment for Covid. But I at least want them to have a chance at it if they do. 

Currently the worst hit (so far according to positive tests)  county in Oklahoma is a BFE little town called Cleveland, Oklahoma.  I have my suspicions for why that is but the point it rural areas aren’t immune.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Murphy101

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Happymomof1 said:

Absolutely,  My daughter who is a senior has already given up so much.  She only has one dual credit class, so she just sleeps.  She has nothing else to do. There are not a ton of those types of volunteer jobs.  All the oil and gas guys need to be able to take some of those jobs as well, if there are any.  So she can't work, which was my original plan.  So she just stays in her bed all day.  She plays with her 23yo brother at night.  That is about all there is for them to do.

 

Get offline.

Tell her to get out of bed.  

If she isn’t depressed already, her behavior will lead to depression, and you need to nip that in the bud now for her own good.  

Have a discussion with her *immediately* if not sooner 😉 about what she *can* do at this time.  

Help around house. Study things of interest.  Make use of free things like Met opera productions online, or museum tours online. Grow some food, read... volunteer for real as a volunteer, not necessarily a “job”

If she thinks there’s nothing, and if you do, that’s depression talking, not reality. 

 

If neither of you can figure out anything else then (or maybe in addition even if you can), have her start making masks for people who need them:

 

 

And/or

You probably have similar in your area where help is needed, if you don’t, she can help out long distance for our area: 

• Send video messages of support to residents of the Lebanon Veterans Home. The Oregon Department of Veterans’ Affairs is collecting video clips, which can be shown on the closed-circuit TV in the facility. Learn more here.
• Did you know that before the COVID-19 crisis, approximately 60% of long-term care residents never received a visitor? The Oregon Long Term Care Ombudsman Office needs our help to let residents know we're here for them and thinking about them during this time. Print out a #LoveFromADistance flyer, write a message, snap a photo, and post to their Facebook page.

And/or

@fairfarmhand posted about a teen bucket list her teen developed...

 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Get offline.

Tell her to get out of bed.  

If she isn’t depressed already, her behavior will lead to depression, and you need to nip that in the bud now for her own good.  

Have a discussion with her *immediately* if not sooner 😉 about what she *can* do at this time.  

Help around house. Study things of interest.  Make use of free things like Met opera productions online, or museum tours online. Grow some food, read... volunteer for real as a volunteer, not necessarily a “job”

If she thinks there’s nothing, and if you do, that’s depression talking, not reality. 

 

If neither of you can figure out anything else then (or maybe in addition even if you can), have her start making masks for people who need them:

 

 

And/or

You probably have similar in your area where help is needed, if you don’t, she can help out long distance for our area: 

• Send video messages of support to residents of the Lebanon Veterans Home. The Oregon Department of Veterans’ Affairs is collecting video clips, which can be shown on the closed-circuit TV in the facility. Learn more here.
• Did you know that before the COVID-19 crisis, approximately 60% of long-term care residents never received a visitor? The Oregon Long Term Care Ombudsman Office needs our help to let residents know we're here for them and thinking about them during this time. Print out a #LoveFromADistance flyer, write a message, snap a photo, and post to their Facebook page.

And/or

@fairfarmhand posted about a teen bucket list her teen developed...

 

Yes, my 75 year old mother is self isolating and making masks for her granddaughter who is a nurse.  

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

This. I have a newly minted 18 yr old home from her first year at college and a 21 yr old, plus 3 other teens and 3 younger ones. No one is laying in bed unless they are sick. And even those I make get up and shower and move about a bit. We all have chores, we all play board games or card games or whatever. I join in. The older kids join in. Dh joins in. There’s always something to do.  

Right?  One reason I didn’t want my dd back at college is I know for a fact there are no medical care options there. They have a 15 bed “hospital” and a 2 room urgent care.  That’s it. Even without a pandemic, anything needing emergency surgery or whatever would have gotten you a life flight or an ambulance to the nearest medical care 1.5 hrs away.  I hope no one in my house needs medical treatment for Covid. But I at least want them to have a chance at it if they do. 

Currently the worst hit (so far according to positive tests)  county in Oklahoma is a BFE little town called Cleveland, Oklahoma.  I have my suspicions for why that is but the point it rural areas aren’t immune.

Please share!  P.m me if you want. 

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

Tell her to get out of bed.  

If she isn’t depressed already, her behavior will lead to depression, and you need to nip that in the bud now for her own good.  

Have a discussion with her *immediately* if not sooner 😉 about what she *can* do at this time.  

Help around house. Study things of interest.  Make use of free things like Met opera productions online, or museum tours online. Grow some food, read... volunteer for real as a volunteer, not necessarily a “job”

If she thinks there’s nothing, and if you do, that’s depression talking, not reality. 

You can't scold somebody out of depression. And you can't simply "nip it in the bud" by having a discussion. If only it were this easy...
 

Edited March 30, 2020 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

Just now, regentrude said:

You can't scold somebody out of depression. And you can't simply "nip it in the bud" by having a discussion. 
 

She did not say that.  She said staying in bed all day can lead to depression.  And now is the time to discuss this,  we don’t know she IS depressed.....but we do know staying in bed all day, every day is not healthy.  

[gardenmom5]

I thought I'd post this here.  I've seen a number of things about people socializing in groups, while six feet apart so they think they're social distancing.

this is why it isn't  social distancing - even if they're outside.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

She did not say that.  She said staying in bed all day can lead to depression.  And now is the time to discuss this,  we don’t know she IS depressed.....but we do know staying in bed all day, every day is not healthy.  

Staying in bed all day is a symptom of depression, not a root cause

[Murphy101]

Just now, regentrude said:

You can't scold somebody out of depression. And you can't simply "nip it in the bud" by having a discussion. 
 

I don’t think that’s what she meant.  It’s not what I meant either. But there is a lot of truth negative behaviors can feed depression and start a cycle that’s hard to break.  Being honest that depression is possible and we may have to work to avoid it or avoid being sucked deeper into it is important.  But so is being real that this is not going to ruin their lives and not making it out to be worse than it has to be.

So while making my kids get up every morning and get dressed and so forth just like if they were leaving for work/school/church, insisting that everyone join us for meal and meal prep, do some dishes or yard work, maybe play a board game - this isn’t a cure for depression but it can and does stave off some depression.  And encouraging someone to get up and keep putting one foot in front of the other is helpful too. For many that will be enough to stave off depression, or keep it from getting terribly deep.  I certainly encourage anyone who feels this isn’t enough to seek more help. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Staying in bed all day is a symptom of depression, not a root cause

I will just defer to Murphy’s post below.  

[wendyroo]

23 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Staying in bed all day is a symptom of depression, not a root cause

Sleep difficulties are a symptom of three of my children's mental health and neurodevelopmental challenges.  Just because they are a known symptom does not mean that I do not strive every single day to help them maintain healthy sleep patterns...and healthy eating patterns, and healthy behavioral patterns, and healthy self-care patterns, etc. 

I think the last thing we can or should do when dealing with children with mental illness is throw up our hands and "give in" to the symptoms of the disease - at least not until we are forced to do so for our own safety or mental health.  Right up until then, I will be doing everything in my power to keep my children regulated and living healthy, balanced lives...especially if disregulation and lack of balance are symptoms of their illnesses.

[regentrude]

53 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think that’s what she meant.  It’s not what I meant either. But there is a lot of truth negative behaviors can feed depression and start a cycle that’s hard to break.  Being honest that depression is possible and we may have to work to avoid it or avoid being sucked deeper into it is important.  But so is being real that this is not going to ruin their lives and not making it out to be worse than it has to be.

So while making my kids get up every morning and get dressed and so forth just like if they were leaving for work/school/church, insisting that everyone join us for meal and meal prep, do some dishes or yard work, maybe play a board game - this isn’t a cure for depression but it can and does stave off some depression.  And encouraging someone to get up and keep putting one foot in front of the other is helpful too. For many that will be enough to stave off depression, or keep it from getting terribly deep.  I certainly encourage anyone who feels this isn’t enough to seek more help. 

the bolded: like what??? 
There are no good resources for mental health available. Few people can afford to pay for therapy. IF they can even find a therapist who is actually helping. 
I am very disillusioned about the state of mental health care in this country, and the current situation is not making anything better. 

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

You can't scold somebody out of depression. And you can't simply "nip it in the bud" by having a discussion. If only it were this easy...
 

 

What Scarlett, Wendyroo, and Murphy said. 

Being in bed all day and mommy agreeing that being in bed all day is all life There is anymore can’t possibly be healthy. 

If isn’t depressed she almost certainly will become so. 

If she already is depressed, all the more reason to get up, and to regulate her as much as possible, but also outside support would be needed.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/managing-stress-anxiety.html

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

If she already is depressed, all the more reason to get up, and to regulate her as much as possible, but also outside support would be needed.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/managing-stress-anxiety.html

I am quite familiar with this link. And for many, even doing all.the.things isn't enough

"Make time to unwind. Try to do some other activities you enjoy." Yeah, and what if anything that used to bring joy is not enjoyable anymore? 

"Connect with others. Talk with people you trust about your concerns and how you are feeling." Who do you choose to burden with your shit? Everybody can stand it only so long until they are sick of it.Sick of you. ( Or they're people in the same boat. They get it.)

ETA: Everybody talks about "reading out" and "outside support". So where do you find that? And how do you pay for it?

Edited March 31, 2020 by regentrude

[Murphy101]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

the bolded: like what??? 
There are no good resources for mental health available. Few people can afford to pay for therapy. IF they can even find a therapist who is actually helping. 
I am very disillusioned about the state of mental health care in this country, and the current situation is not making anything better. 

I completely agree that medical care in general and mental care specifically are no where near what I wish were for many people. But there are some resources out there and we have no way of knowing what resource the OP of that comment has.    But we do know that positive behaviors and having daily goals and purpose helps everyone maintain better mental health. So doing those things are in the best interests of everyone.

ETA: regentrude: you seem unusually despondent this evening. Are YOU okay? No one even disagrees with you. It’s totally true that someone can do all the things and still end up or stay clinically  depressed. And those people should at least consider if pharmaceuticals and therapy can help them. I hope they can find that help if they need it.  I don’t think anyone you are talking to would say otherwise. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Murphy101

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am quite familiar with this link. And for many, even doing all.the.things isn't enough

 

Are you having a personal depression situation or in someone close to you? You seem to be extreme lately in pointing out the problems of depression and presenting it as if it were a pretty hopeless situation. 

For many doing all the things may not be enough. I agree. Yet for many other people it will be. 

 

 

No reason not to at least try the basics. Maybe it won’t be enough. But why give up or assume it won’t be enough even before making an effort. 

33 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I think the last thing we can or should do when dealing with children with mental illness is throw up our hands and "give in" to the symptoms of the disease - at least not until we are forced to do so for our own safety or mental health.  Right up until then, I will be doing everything in my power to keep my children regulated and living healthy, balanced lives...especially if disregulation and lack of balance are symptoms of their illnesses.

 

The YouTube film @JennyD posted elsewhere might also be helpful for some people.  To see this situation is context as compared to someone who spent years in jail and solitary for part of it. 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Pen

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am quite familiar with this link. And for many, even doing all.the.things isn't enough

"Make time to unwind. Try to do some other activities you enjoy." Yeah, and what if anything that used to bring joy is not enjoyable anymore? 

"Connect with others. Talk with people you trust about your concerns and how you are feeling." Who do you choose to burden with your shit? Everybody can stand it only so long until they are sick of it.Sick of you. ( Or they're people in the same boat. They get it.)

Not down with the infantilization of depressed people. It’s the job of each person with a mental health challenge to find the thing(s) that work for them be it medication or activity, etc. That’s also the work of parents of kids with challenges. Our country is not so locked down that mental healthcare, even by phone, is unavailable right now.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Sneezyone

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I completely agree that medical care in general and mental care specifically are no where near what I wish were for many people. But there are some resources out there and we have no way of knowing what resource the OP of that comment has.    But we do know that positive behaviors and having daily goals and purpose helps everyone maintain better mental health. So doing those things are in the best interests of everyone.

I know you mean well and you are kind. I need to leave this conversation because I feel close to crying because I am working my ass off to have positive behaviors and purpose and all this shit and it does.not.do.one.damned.thing. You can get out of bed and work your job and cook and go on hikes and appear happy and smile and post pictures of wildflowers and everything and still be f-ing depressed. 

But I guess I am not trying hard enough. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by regentrude

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I know you mean well and you are kind. I need to leave this conversation because I feel close to crying because I am working my ass off to have positive behaviors and purpose and all this shit and it does.not.do.one.damned.thing. You can get out of bed and work your job and cook and go on hikes and appear happy and smile and post pictures of wildflowers and everything and still be f-ing depressed. 

If you are in this bad a state, please call an emergency line or inform your significant other so that he/she can. My DH called on my behalf and it saved my life.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I know you mean well and you are kind. I need to leave this conversation because I feel close to crying because I am working my ass off to have positive behaviors and purpose and all this shit and it does.not.do.one.damned.thing. You can get out of bed and work your job and cook and go on hikes and appear happy and smile and post pictures of wildflowers and everything and still be f-ing depressed. 

But you are mixing up actually clinically depressed people with teens who will stay in bed  of you let them.  Maybe Seekings daughter is clinically depressed but I doubt it based upon the other descriptions of the young adult.  Many of us fight depression by getting up and keeping on with life even when we don’t feel like it.  Sure sometimes that is not enough, but sometimes it is.  

[Murphy101]

Just now, regentrude said:

I know you mean well and you are kind. I need to leave this conversation because I feel close to crying because I am working my ass off to have positive behaviors and purpose and all this shit and it does.not.do.one.damned.thing. You can get out of bed and work your job and cook and go on hikes and appear happy and smile and post pictures of wildflowers and everything and still be f-ing depressed. 

Yes. I have been there too. I’m so sorry you are struggling.  It IS damned hard.  I’m so proud of you for carrying that heaviness and still getting out of bed and doing all the things.  It’s not for nothing. It won’t always be this way.  (((Regentrude)))

[GoodGrief]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I think this is terribly hard on late teens and young adults.  They are at a stage in their life where they are building important, meaningful relationships with members outside of their immediate family. 

Agreed. For many college students removed abruptly from their dorms, they feel like they were cut off from family because that community had become family for many. It's unnatural to be back with parents, and especially those parents who are claiming authority over these young adults (I've heard some stories that make me cringe). My college senior moved in with her adult sister in another state, which is a somewhat better situation as far as respecting her independence. But I know she is still grieving. Not whining; she understands the reality of the circumstances. But sad and frustrated, nonetheless.

[GoodGrief]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

I don't recall which one - the dean did a VIDEO dance sing-a-long explaining about how they were doing refunds. I thought it rather immature and moronic.  I didnt' pay too much attention as for me, there are more important things to pay attention to right now.

It was NYU. The video was embarrassing. And she did not explain the lack of refunds in the video. She just danced and sang along to Losing My Religion.

Edited March 31, 2020 by GoodGrief

[regentrude]

17 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

ETA: regentrude: you seem unusually despondent this evening. Are YOU okay? 

Thanks for your concern. I am ok. Not good, but not so bad that folks needs to worry about me.
 

Edited March 31, 2020 by regentrude

[GoodGrief]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Staying in bed all day is a symptom of depression, not a root cause

Exactly.

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, GoodGrief1 said:

Exactly.

A red flag that requires care, yes. There are a variety of ways to provide care.

[regentrude]

37 minutes ago, Pen said:

Are you having a personal depression situation or in someone close to you? You seem to be extreme lately in pointing out the problems of depression and presenting it as if it were a pretty hopeless situation. 

Multiple things. Won't go into details about personal stuff. It does not help that a friend of mine is currently recovering from a suicide attempt. And seeing the odyssee he has been through over years with meds and therapy, it IS a pretty hopeless situation.

ETA: If I seem "extreme", it's because I am very, very scared about what i am seeing and experiencing. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by regentrude

[Frances]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

THIS
people need to understand - it's already killing medical personnel - a professor of pathology from the UW died from this.  it's estimated at least 50 medical personnel/doctors/nurses in Italy have died from this.  While china hasn't stated how many medical personnel they lost (and we know some have died) - it has gotten out they were threatening medical personnel with jail if they didn't stay in the most affected hospitals. - which is something that happens in epidemics/pandemics.  when the drs and nurses start dying enmass - you get drs and nurses who flee in fear for their own lives.

it takes YEARS to train a dr.  this will kill one in days.

I have a RN niece who has tested negative - but had symptoms.  My pregnant daughter doesn't work directly with patients, but she's still in the hospital working directly with drs and nurses.  still strips off as she walks in the door putting her scrubs in the washer,  and goes directly to a shower.

 

all those "memes" of medical personnel holding up signs saying "I stayed here for you, you stay home for me" - isnt' just some feel good meme, they're as serious as could possibly be.

eta: there are at least two other drs in this area who were treating patients who have contracted this.  I don't know there status.  for every dr who gets sick, is one less to be able to treat someone else who is sick.

Exactly. And until we have the minimal necessary tools to use regular public health measures to combat this, including unlimited rapid tests, quick antibody tests, and all the necessary PPE, people just need to stay the course. We’ve gotten to this point because the federal government and our leader failed us terribly. We could have had adequate, quick testing. We could have screened all international travelers. We didn’t. So now it’s come to this and we all have to suffer the consequences. Please respect those who are making the biggest sacrifices.

[Innisfree]

58 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Multiple things. Won't go into details. Suffice it to say, a friend of mine is currently recovering from a suicide attempt. And seeing the odyssee he has been through over years with meds and therapy, it IS a pretty hopeless situation.

I'm so sorry; that sounds beyond painful.

Others have said it all better than I could, but I wanted to add my concern and hope for some improvement for your friend. Some time ago @maize mentioned a new treatment which showed promise, I believe. I don't remember the details, but maybe she'll see this and jump in.

This is a rotten time in so many ways. Lots of extra stresses, worry about loved ones we can't protect, and at the same time loss of many pleasures: it's no wonder people are having problems. We will get through this, though. 

(((Regentrude and friend)))

[maize]

5 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I'm so sorry; that sounds beyond painful.

Others have said it all better than I could, but I wanted to add my concern and hope for some improvement for your friend. Some time ago @maize mentioned a new treatment which showed promise, I believe. I don't remember the details, but maybe she'll see this and jump in.

This is a rotten time in so many ways. Lots of extra stresses, worry about loved ones we can't protect, and at the same time loss of many pleasures: it's no wonder people are having problems. We will get through this, though. 

(((Regentrude and friend)))

Transcranial  Magnetic Stimulation.

TMS has been life-altering for my dh after fighting depression his entire adult life.

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, ThisIsTheDay said:

No, people will not put up with it.

The social and economic consequences must be taken into consideration. The long term effects of the coronavirus will be far worse than the toll of the virus itself.

It would be far more prudent to instead be protective of people who are at risk, rather than attempting to shut everything down. The drastic measures being taken right now would be better reserved for an episode of something far more contagious and fatal. What would we do under those circumstances?

 

40% of the adult population in this county is at higher risk. Somehow isolating just them would STILL be horrible for the economy, and the one paper that looked at that option found it wasn't enough, and ended up with 8 times the cases the hospitals could handle. partly because those at risk depend on others - the people in the nursing home have the young people caring for them, the guy with diabetes who has to have a plumber come fix his overflowing toilet, the woman with cancer going to the hospital for treatment, etc. We can't protect them if everyone else is going about regular life, getting exposed, and carrying it to the at risk. 

7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I view so called religious leaders who are telling their flocks to come worship (and of course fill the offering basket) in the face of this illness are no different than cult leaders telling people to drink kool-aid in faith. 

Yup. Being from the south it makes me think of snake handlers, and how we shouldn't put God to the test. How we are supposed to, as Christians, expect to sacrifice for others. We are supposed to expect to carry a cross. Nothing in the Bible says, "do whatever you want, forget about the needs of others". 

6 hours ago, SamanthaCarter said:

No. The mom down the street that lost her mind with worry several weeks ago forbade her kids from going outside. She lasted two weeks. The kids have all been down at my house playing with my kids for the last three days now. 
 

People in this area of the state are angry with our governor. We are the fifth least impacted state in terms of # cases per million, yet he has cancelled school for the remainder of the year, graduating the seniors, and has put us under stay at home orders until June 10. He just appears drunk with power at this point, given this region’s perspective. 

Given the lack of testing, I don't see how anyone can believe anything about the numbers of cases. My governor today was bragging about how there are 20 counties with no cases. Um, how many people did you test there, huh? Even in my county, which has nearly 300 cases, we are mostly just testing people over 65 with symptoms. If you are younger with symptoms, no test. 

4 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I think this is terribly hard on late teens and young adults.  They are at a stage in their life where they are building important, meaningful relationships with members outside of their immediate family.  They are also developing skills and talents that lay the groundwork for a productive adult life.  For many young people, developing those skills require interactions cannot be accomplished remotely. I am concerned about the long term emotional, mental, and physical toil on young people if they are not able to play basketball, practice gymnastics, play tennis, or participate in other physical activities.  Some young people are all alone in a new town with their first job.  Is an engaged couple suppose to each stay at their respective parents' home and not see each other for months?  Those of us who are older, even though this is a difficult time, have had more choices over who   we are spending our time with and more control over how our life is ordered.  Many of us have not had as many disruptions in our lives as they recently have had.  I look at my 21-year old DS who in the past two weeks has lost his part-time job, had all of his classes move online, had his martial arts gym close, has had his study abroad program he had worked hard to get into cancelled, and has been told that he needs to not gather with his friends.    And there are a limited amount of volunteer food drivers needed for people in our area.  Many volunteer opportunities have been put on hold because of social distancing.

It is hard. But imagine how much harder emotionally it would be to watch hundreds of thousands of people die, to see their friends fighting for life in the ICU, to possibly lose a parent, etc. 

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I know you mean well and you are kind. I need to leave this conversation because I feel close to crying because I am working my ass off to have positive behaviors and purpose and all this shit and it does.not.do.one.damned.thing. You can get out of bed and work your job and cook and go on hikes and appear happy and smile and post pictures of wildflowers and everything and still be f-ing depressed. 

But I guess I am not trying hard enough. 

No one is saying that you are not trying hard enough! sometimes all the trying doesn't work. But sometimes, self care does help. And with a young person with no other underlying issues or history, if it is sudden onset with all the changes, talking to them about self care, teaching them healthy habits, might be useful. That's all. 

I hope you get whatever help you need, and find some peace. Depression sucks. 

[mlktwins]

8 hours ago, athena1277 said:

I don’t know about other countries, but I feel like Americans will not put up with it for too long.  Not to be  Debi Downer, I foresee 1 of these scenarios playing out.

1. I think the new date of April 30 to continue staying at home  is going to be about the limit.  Americans in general don’t like being told what to do.  There’s going to come a point where a lot of people say that is it, I’m going to go out regardless, because it’s my right to do so.  
 

2. Too many people won’t be able to get the basic necessities they need, due to job loss or shortages.  Looting and/or rioting takes place until the government is forced to reopen things.

There’s no way this lasts much into May IMHO.

Virginia’s Governor just issued a stay at home order today that is in effect until June 10th.

[ktgrok]

For those bored (I wish!) I seem to remember there are a ton of "citizen scientist" volunteer gigs that are totally online. Young people might enjoy helping out that way. Things like looking through photos of the antarctic to spot the penguins and count them, etc. 

One example: https://scistarter.org/snapshot-safari

Otherwise, they can look at this as the only time in their lives they will have this much free time to learn a new skill, language, hobby, etc. Youtube alone has how to do videos for everything. Tons of how to draw videos that take very little in the way of supplies, from beginner to advanced. Cooking videos. Alton Brown has several specifically for the pandemic. Etc etc. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

the bolded: like what??? 
There are no good resources for mental health available. Few people can afford to pay for therapy. IF they can even find a therapist who is actually helping. 
I am very disillusioned about the state of mental health care in this country, and the current situation is not making anything better. 

 

This is Aus specific and fairly basic but I’m going to put it here in case it’s helpful 

https://headtohealth.gov.au/covid-19-support/covid-19

a significant amount of the funding for healthcare here is going toward mental health and domestic violence during the epidemic which I’m happy about.  Hopefully it’s effective.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

Exactly. And until we have the minimal necessary tools to use regular public health measures to combat this, including unlimited rapid tests, quick antibody tests, and all the necessary PPE, people just need to stay the course. We’ve gotten to this point because the federal government and our leader failed us terribly. We could have had adequate, quick testing. We could have screened all international travelers. We didn’t. So now it’s come to this and we all have to suffer the consequences. Please respect those who are making the biggest sacrifices.

don't leave out the WHO caving to the Chinese about not calling this a PROBLEM back in January,  or the CDC - who wanted complete control of testing and someone was only acknowledged as being positive if *they* tested that patient and the results came back positive.   (I'm in WA.  first case.  first death. and until NYC deaths took off, the most deaths. - this was widely reported in our local news as new cases were being reported, "the cdc hasn't tested them yet, so it's only a presumptive positive".  and "the cdc hasn't approved ___ test for use"..)

both of those organizations were more about political points and power than doing their jobs.

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, Ottakee said:

Sad to say when I was out to get a prescription today I noticed that our 2 big stores ...Walmart and Meijer had just about the same number of cars in the lots as typical....hopefully it was less people though.

We have more cars out initially because people were buying more food per trip to get ready for shelter in place. 

Now the light rail behind my home has stopped running, public bus frequency has been reduced. When I want to go to an Asian supermarket, my husband has to drive me. 

9 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

.  Though VA has foolishly closed farmers' markets, where food of the highest quality can be procured. 

A friend of mine loves farmers markets. The photos she took recently shows people are still crowding while buying produce. People’s usual behavior at farmers market takes time to change. My county is a hotspot. 

[GoodGrief]

5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

A red flag that requires care, yes. There are a variety of ways to provide care.

Well aware of the intricacies of depression/anxiety. Raised by a mother who spent my teen years in bed. My own daughter was on a ventilator 5 years ago after a suicide attempt. She is doing exceptionally well now. I've got another daughter with symptoms that present differently but have been no less disruptive. I know how very difficult it is to identify and access proper care. No small thing to force a depressed young adult (if depression is the issue there) out of bed.

[Bootsie]

11 hours ago, Eliana said:

The economic impacts of *not* shutting down will be as devastating, if not more so, than of the shut down.

I have not seen this to be the broadly held view of economists.  The St Louis Federal Reserve Bank president estimates that unemployment in the US could reach 30% for the second quarter with shut downs.  Or,, is there another way to measure economic impact?  Reduction in GDP?  Inflation?