sassenach Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: I blame the bottled water on people who are used to preparing for natural disasters. When anything threatening happens here, everyone goes and grabs pallets of bottled water, bleach and plywood. And propane. Throughout every hurricane I've ever dealt with it has never occurred to me to stock up on toilet paper. Maybe the water is just reflex buy? One pic on Twitter did make me laugh. It was a reporter at Costco in the parking lot and masses of people with carts full of toilet paper, water, dry good, you name it. Then this lone guy with a couple of huge boxes of Durex condoms and a giant tub of coconut oil in his cart rolls by. 😂 #Priorities. Maybe there will be a bunch of December Covid babies the same way we had all of our post 9/11 babies. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, SKL said: I read somewhere that this is a seasonal virus likely to mostly go away when the weather gets warmer. That might be why populous but warm countries like India hardly have any cases? If that is the case, maybe relief is on the horizon? The warm weather might be helping India but they also began using oxygen/ozone treatments some 20 years ago. It was used first in the charity hospitals and proved to be useful for many health problems. Eventually, wealthier people began using it, too. A few other countries also use it. It’s cheap and relatively easy to administer. I talked to a virologist the other week and he said it would probably work. So, that might be why their numbers are lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: But wouldn't that be post infection treatment, which would sill reveal an infection number? Or are they just pre-emptively doing ozone treatments like people are downing elderberry here? Ozone can be used preventively, too. Yes, they tend to use it quite a bit, especially for arthritis and a whole slew of other ailments. I think they go in for cheap and quick subcutaneous shots but they also use ozonated sesame oil which can hold onto ozone for a long time. A year, I think. In the US, ozonated olive oil is what you’d likely find. Water doesn’t hold on to it for too long, though. It can modulate cytokine storm, too. Anyhoo, here’s a quick search using India and ozone therapy if anyone if s interested. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=dhlnXunTIdLLtQb4oKSYCQ&q=india+ozone+therapy&oq=india+ozone+therapy&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3..0i22i30j33i22i29i30l2.9483.14060..14838...0.1..0.114.830.2j6......0....1.........0i71j0j33i160j0i8i13i30.IeF54cwzoyc Cuba is likely using it. Maybe Germany and Israel, too, or they might be using just oxygen therapies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlktwins Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, sassenach said: Maybe there will be a bunch of December Covid babies the same way we had all of our post 9/11 babies. I just brought that up to DH last night LoL. A lot of people are/will be stressed and”it” is a stress reliever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 16 hours ago, regentrude said: I would like to see who found that. Our data in our department show the opposite. We have just finished an ed research study about it. We find show that students in the online sections underperform, on average, compared to students in live sections. I have data for several years and several thousand students that show this discrepancy in the exam averages on every single test (identical exams between in seat and online) and in the final grades. The difference in average final grade is up to half a letter grade. Students self report that the find it much harder to remain focused while working on their computer and find it easier to be captive audience in a classroom. the major distraction are the other things you can do online. Taking online classes requires much more discipline. My dh teaches at the master's level and this has been his experience as well. On-line students do not perform as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, sassenach said: Maybe there will be a bunch of December Covid babies the same way we had all of our post 9/11 babies. That seems rather difficult to achieve when people keep 3 feet distance from one another. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 https://mobile.twitter.com/NewTimesRwanda/status/1237048775526547456 this would be good to see. Hand washing stations at public transport stops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 hours ago, sassenach said: Maybe there will be a bunch of December Covid babies the same way we had all of our post 9/11 babies. When singapore lifted the alert level and there was a panic buy of some things someone posted a pic of the empty Durex stand. no baby boom for Singapore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlktwins Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, regentrude said: That seems rather difficult to achieve when people keep 3 feet distance from one another. If people are well, but have to stay in, I think all bets will be off! Like a big winter storm... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 17 hours ago, saraha said: I agree with the I hope they don't go all online classes. My two college students have had a mix of online and IRL classes at our local community college. They both felt like the online classes were full of busy work and no real discussion of topics. Every week it was "find three online articles that relate to the chapter in the book and comment on 3 other students' posts?" They have both MUCH preferred and felt like they learned more in the IRL classes. My dd1, who had to complete her degree at ASU online agrees with that sentiment. She had to do that because of her health. She also had lots of fellow students not doing the work at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, regentrude said: That seems rather difficult to achieve when people keep 3 feet distance from one another. Except for everyone “working from home.” 😘 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, regentrude said: I would like to see who found that. Our data in our department show the opposite. We have just finished an ed research study about it. We find show that students in the online sections underperform, on average, compared to students in live sections. I have data for several years and several thousand students that show this discrepancy in the exam averages on every single test (identical exams between in seat and online) and in the final grades. The difference in average final grade is up to half a letter grade. Students self report that the find it much harder to remain focused while working on their computer and find it easier to be captive audience in a classroom. the major distraction are the other things you can do online. Taking online classes requires much more discipline. I live in one of the best counties in the nation with a HCOL and excellent schools. I currently go to the local community college that is considered an excellent cc. I have taken online classes and 90% of them have been bad to awful. Not only are they boring, most times the teacher just phones it in... paperwork is 2-3 yrs outdated, online links are broken,, etc. They don't even utilize video schooling, which would be super easy to do. Nope... just a teacher cutting and pasting her notes for us to read. So awful. For several years I have said this in my evaluations... make the classes video!! make the classes video. Video the teacher lecturing and make it available to the online classes. It's like we're stuck in the 90s. Edited March 10, 2020 by PrincessMommy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said: I have taken online classes and 90% of them have been bad to awful. Not only are they boring, most times the teacher just phones it in... paperwork is 2-3 yrs outdated, online links are broken,, etc. They don't even utilize video schooling, which would be super easy to do. Nope... just a teacher cutting and pasting her notes for us to read. So awful. For several years I have said this in my evaluations... make the classes video!! make the classes video. Video the teacher lecturing and make it available to the online classes. It's like we're stuck in the 90s. Videoing the teacher lecturing is NOT the best way to do online video. My online classes ARE all video - but I have not just not just filmed my lectures, but produced videos specifically for the online section. For example, instead of seeing the teacher write on the board, the screen is the tablet screen and students see the writing appear with voiceover, and it's large enough they can read the equations clearly on their phone - think Khan Academy. But even so, the students in the online lecture sections still perform worse. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 The results in online courses will depend largely on why the student is studying online. Maybe these individuals have legitimate distractions or disabilities that would make it even worse for them if they had to attend in-person, so, maybe they are not people who would ever be in an in-person university class to begin with. I could easily imagine a person working 2 jobs and then doing their online schooling in the wee hours. Or working and raising kids and doing their online schooling while keeping one ear open for disasters. Or being distractable both in and out of the classroom, but unwilling to invest in what it costs to attend in person just to get a lousy grade. Also, as is apparent from several posts above, it depends on whether or not the university bothers with the quality of online courses. Obviously a poor quality course is going to have poor results - online or not. They should be developing best practices and improving their quality - but maybe there are disincentives for them to do that. It is my opinion that some classes can be successfully done online and some can't. Clearly there is benefit to discussion and group work in some contexts ... less so in others. I think it is very reasonable to reduce a 4-year degree to 3 or even 2 years "in person" without seriously compromising the benefits such as in-class discussion. Another thing to consider is that the structure of online classes could provide more opportunities for one-on-one or small group tutoring and other good uses of time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, SKL said: Another thing to consider is that the structure of online classes could provide more opportunities for one-on-one or small group tutoring and other good uses of time. That would require more instructors. Usually, colleges implement online teaching to cut costs, i.e. have one instructor teach more students. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, regentrude said: That would require more instructors. Usually, colleges implement online teaching to cut costs, i.e. have one instructor teach more students. It would be a balance as I'm sure it is now. I'm sure you aren't saying one-on-one tutoring does not happen at the university level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I hope it leads to more options for online classes/school/college and telecommuting. I do not think it is good to make either SOP. My dh is back in college now and utilizing as many online courses as he can as he still works full time. He is performing far better in these online classes than he did when he took his in person classes 2+ decades ago, the difference of course is his motivation. He is taking an in person class this semester and really enjoying it, if he didn't have a job I think he'd like to take many more classes at school, but he doesn't have that luxury. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Google building car park was parked when we drove past this morning. They were supposed to be working from home if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 When one of my nieces got pregnant in the last semester of high school, she switched to online classes to complete her diploma. She had serious mental health issues going on and wasn't completing things for a few months at first. I talked to a church member of mine who worked for the online high school for ideas on how I could approach the subject with my niece. Church member said there seemed to be a few categories of online high school students: 1. The smallest group is highly motivated good students who want to finish high school early because they knew exactly what they want to do as a career and are excited to get on with it already. Community colleges and universities in AZ are very comfortable with minor aged students, so kids can move along as fast as they like, as long as they meet the academic entrance requirements. 2. The biggest group is students who have behavioral issues and learning challenges who don't function well in a classroom setting. Some are in what is called grades 14 and 15, meaning they still haven't completed the requirements 2-3 years after their peers who graduated on time. 3. Then there is my niece's group, the unusual situations kids. She was a very good student before all the issues that year brought her ongoing mental health issues to a head, then the pregnancy, so it's good students with bad social issues and sometimes behavioral problems. I'm glad to say she was able to complete her diploma a semester after she should've graduated. The school work was not at all challenging. When she finally got to working on it, she laughed at how easy it was. Online college probably has its own categories. Her sister became pregnant her first semester at community college on a scholarship. She got pregnant while engaged to her now husband who was and still is in the navy. They got married before the baby was born and she moved to his base. She was able to get her scholarship back and has been taking online classes since the baby was born, so she's not very far behind where she would've been without getting pregnant. She's another very good student who does well in any setting. I'm very grateful they had the opportunities they did with online schooling. On site classes at a might very well be the best way to learn, but they would've been impossible in those and many other situations. Doing OK in a class is better not taking the class at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, Arcadia said: Google building car park was parked when we drove past this morning. They were supposed to be working from home if possible. What? Do you mean it was full? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Katy said: What? Do you mean it was full? Yes. It’s full as usual. The Microsoft and Google buildings parking lots. These buildings are near to NASA AMES which has a positive case. Facebook has a building nearby too. It does make me think that maybe company busses are suspended because of the work from home if possible directive so people are driving in for meetings instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, regentrude said: But even so, the students in the online lecture sections still perform worse. How much worse? I do think it's important to keep reliable data on the differences so no one is guessing or assuming that it's equal if it's not. And do they have a way of keeping track of which type of student is taking the online version of a class? Is it possible it's students who usually don't do as well in an in person setting or is it students who usually do very well in classroom settings? And are they keeping track of hybrid situations where they compare the scores based on the online content and the on site content separately? If we can start studying and measuring these things students can make decisions based on trade offs. If say, a student with a good, high performing academic track record in classroom settings is only going to score, say 10% lower in an online class, or maybe a full letter grade lower, it may still be worth it, depending on how critically important that content is to what they'll be doing professionally or other benefits the online option might give them for an internship or employment. A student who doesn't usually do as well might not be willing to risk it. Edited March 10, 2020 by Homeschool Mom in AZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 23 hours ago, SKL said: I've been saying for years that more college courses need to be offered online to reduce the overall cost of a college education. If this pushes it in that direction, I'm all for it. My university charges an extra fee for distance learners to recoup the added cost of providing education for them. Once all of the technological requirements are factored in, it isn't clear that online instruction reduces cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/9/2020 at 2:07 PM, FuzzyCatz said: Meh - I just think they're not testing. I have to believe it is rampant in India & probably Pakistan too and I would not be traveling to countries like that right now. I think there are/have been many thousands of cases in the US not IDed. somewhere I was reading they have so many different viruses that cause similar symptoms (not as severe), so it can be hard to know what's the difference. I don't think they're doing much testing either. perhaps for people whose symptoms are so bad they seek hospital care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just saw that our state is not allowing visitors in juvie detention. I think that is horrible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, SKL said: Just saw that our state is not allowing visitors in juvie detention. I think that is horrible. nursing homes here aren't being allowed visitors - not just ones with active cases (of which there are at least 11). the goal is to keep it out - as it's much easier to spread through a closed population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 ...And ds’ college cancels classes for the rest of the week beginning tomorrow, to run into spring break. I’m also very annoyed that ds is still mostly planning to go on a trip to warmer shores, somewhere he can only get by airplane. Just, no. IMO. Not worth it. He said he was still “monitoring” the situation and may not go, but he seems pretty likely to go anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said: nursing homes here aren't being allowed visitors - not just ones with active cases (of which there are at least 11). the goal is to keep it out - as it's much easier to spread through a closed population. I think the harm to a kid of not being allowed to see his parents would be worse than the possible harm of catching this virus. But what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 hours ago, regentrude said: Videoing the teacher lecturing is NOT the best way to do online video. My online classes ARE all video - but I have not just not just filmed my lectures, but produced videos specifically for the online section. For example, instead of seeing the teacher write on the board, the screen is the tablet screen and students see the writing appear with voiceover, and it's large enough they can read the equations clearly on their phone - think Khan Academy. But even so, the students in the online lecture sections still perform worse. I can see video lecturing may not be the best but it would certainly be a step up from what I had for my online classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: Anyone think this will impact the number of people placed in nursing homes in the long term? (By long term I mean this discussion, not the length of time the person is put in the nursing home for.) In other words, will families shift to make different decisions to keep parents at home longer, or completely if possible? I doubt it will have a huge impact, because at least in my experience, the nursing home is the last resort after the family can no longer care for the individual outside of an institution. But I could be wrong. Rehab centers though, maybe. But I think more likely, the families will become more vigilant about making sure safety procedures are followed vs. try to take over all the work at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: Anyone think this will impact the number of people placed in nursing homes in the long term? (By long term I mean this discussion, not the length of time the person is put in the nursing home for.) In other words, will families shift to make different decisions to keep parents at home longer, or completely if possible? The people I know choosing facilities instead of at home are doing it for different reasons: 1. Sandwiched adult children with full time jobs they can't afford to quit and maybe raising kids at home. 2. Elders who need skilled nursing care throughout the day. 3. Elders who were and are abusive to their children and/or caretakers. I don't think that will change in the future due to this or other viruses in those kinds of cases. I do wonder if eldercare and challenges like this one will cause people to be less inclined to preventive care in middle age. I'm considering the route my mother's cousin took. He wasn't a preventive care kind of guy to begin with, and at 73 had a huge painful lump growing on his jaw that he assumed was cancer. He chose not to find out. (I would find out but not treat.) When it was too painful to manage he told my mother who talked him into calling hospice. They arrived that same day he called. He arranged care for his ailing wife (moved her newly divorced daughter in and gave her all powers of attorney for them both and got their affairs in order) and died 6-8 weeks later at home with all the pain management hospice had in its arsenal. Two months of managed pain in my early 70s doesn't sound like a bad last chapter of life. The problem with isolating all these fragile, elderly patients from the world is that they're not close and connected to their loved ones during this time. We're talking about people at most risk of dying in the near future of any virus. Is it really kinder to have them alone in their rooms with just medical staff managing them, trying to avoid the illness with drastic measures, or would it be better to be at home surrounded by loved ones in their last days while severely ill for a short duration? COVID-19 seems to kill them quickly. What other kind of end do they want? Do they want to be isolated for every illness that goes around every year? I think people haven't thought through the myth of "dying in their sleep" and "dying of natural causes" they've heard their great-grandpappy dying of. It's only been in the last generation or two we could really identify what actually killed people in their sleep, and it probably wasn't usually old age. It was catastrophic illnesses from diseases we couldn't manage or even diagnose long term then- stroke, massive heart attacks, diabetes complications. Now that we can manage them, we're out living our minds and our bodies in many cases. Now people die of cancer and Alzheimer's with a long, slow decline that can make them unable to do much other than sit in a chair or lie in a bed for years and being isolated from every contagion that comes along. I don't think I want to do that. I think I'd rather let a catastrophic issue take me quickly at the end in exchange for 10 years or so. I know that's not something that can be planned and orchestrated with any precision, but different choices might increase the likelihood significantly. The long dwindle is what most people want to avoid, yet everything being done in response to this virus for the elderly contributes to the long dwindle. In the last few years after reading Being Mortal I've been trying to think through common scenarios that don't involve major intervention, and I'm considering the possibility that regular colonoscopies, mammograms, and other preventive measures after say age 55 or maybe 60 might just be preventing a quicker, less miserable death. I'm not set on anything at the moment, I've just been mulling this over with a handful of non-interventionist deaths in my close social circles in the last 7 or so years. I'm also recovering from emergency neck surgery last week when I found out I have a lot osteo arthritis and bone spurs in my neck poised to puncture my spinal cord at age 46. I had no symptoms before a disc rupture last week, but it's only a matter of time. What does that future look like? I know it's at least 1 more surgery. If at some point it's going to be painful and very limiting on a daily basis for decades, do I really want to prolong life until my 70s and 80s sitting around unable to do anything, feeling bad all the time? I've been very limited and would've been in a lot of constant pain but for oxycodone that makes me wobbly walking and muscle relaxants that make me sleepy. I can't drive on the meds. I can't concentrate long term when I'm on them. (I'm not at this writing, but I will be when I go to sleep so the pain doesn't wake me.) This pain will be over within a few weeks, but the day might come when it's going hurt all the time. That could be far off, or it could be soon, I'll have to see a rheumatologist soon for more information, but all my detached thinking about this has been very personal and real for the last week. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: If I were a more cynical person I'd say they made the announcement to get the media kudos for being "socially responsible", then backtracked behind the scenes somewhat hoping to not be discovered as not living up to the standard they project? 🧐 Maybe a bored local news station will wander over and ask some questions? They're voluntary on the work from home. And they have a goodly number of engineers and other people who HAVE to come in to keep things running. I have this on very good authority from someone very close to me who works in the tech industry in the same area. He was not surprised in the least when I told him the reports of their parking lots being full. 5 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: He wasn't a preventive care kind of guy to begin with, and at 73 had a huge painful lump growing on his jaw that he assumed was cancer. He chose not to find out. (I would find out but not treat.) When it was too painful to manage he told my mother who talked him into calling hospice. They arrived that same day he called. No diagnosis, no prognosis, he just calls Hospice and they show up the same day? That doesn't happen in the world I live in. One needs a prognosis of six months or less expected life expectancy, and a referral from a doctor. The referral process is quick, but . . . nobody is calling up any hospice around here and self referring. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: I guess part of it is doesn't seem like "last resort" for an awful lot of people. I'm not talking poor and destitute. I'm also talking about people who had good careers and retired with nice pensions. They have places here where people sell their houses, or reverse mortgage them, and turn all of it- massive amounts of money running through life saving to go into some sort of staged living where its senior center to assisted living to nursing home. Seeing as an awful lot of hedge funds/portfolios are investing in said places, my guess is the Seniors aren't the ones coming out on the better end of the financial-decision stick in these cases. The corporatization of them is enough to give me a lot of pause. The Life Care Center in WA that appears to be the huge hub for the most US deaths is the 3rd largest senior care chain in the US and the CEO/Owner is in the Forbes 400 and employs over 40k people. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/story/2015/apr/27/how-forrest-preston-built-life-care-centers-biggest-privately-held-company-industry/301066/ Apparently the residents who had family members had family members who didn't take time to Google. They've been under investigation by Medicare for fraud for 7 years. Way to go Medicare and WA Sanctioning bodies if what the media is reporting is accurate. Way to get ahead of things. 🙄 Dude that owns it is 86 and worth 1.3B! That's ONE chain. It's massive business. This type of thing did not exist 60 years ago. I don't see those senior living places the same as nursing homes. For one thing, everyone has their own private apartment until they can no longer live that way. I could see that being better than a person living alone in a typical neighborhood where needed services are harder to get. I have heard of some serious fraud, yes. But I think most people at that stage of life don't have any money to speak of. Usually it's either insurance or the government paying the bills. And I think people do realize that nursing home care isn't the greatest for many reasons. But still, sometimes it is better than the alternative. I always tell people to please visit their institutionalized relatives as often as they can. It increases the likelihood that their needs and comforts will be looked after. I worked in a nursing home for 7 whole days and learned a lot in that short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 3/9/2020 at 11:12 PM, sassenach said: Maybe there will be a bunch of December Covid babies the same way we had all of our post 9/11 babies. My son was born in the Seattle 8 months after a longish power outage. They were completely full in their Baby department and my son was healthy so we ended up in overflow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Pawz4me said: No diagnosis, no prognosis, he just calls Hospice and they show up the same day? That doesn't happen in the world I live in. One needs a prognosis of six months or less expected life expectancy, and a referral from a doctor. The referral process is quick, but . . . nobody is calling up any hospice around here and self referring. I wonder if it's because he lives in a state with a huge retired population and many hospice providers. Someone from hospice was at his house the day he called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: If I were a more cynical person I'd say they made the announcement to get the media kudos for being "socially responsible", then backtracked behind the scenes somewhat hoping to not be discovered as not living up to the standard they project? 🧐 Maybe a bored local news station will wander over and ask some questions? Oh, surely you jest! Not — gasp— corporate America! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: @Homeschool Mom in AZ- I loved your post. But I will be shocked if Americans give up on preventative care at a certain age though. Unless there is some sort of inspired healthcare minimalism movement that somehow takes root. Seems like most people are "plug me in and get an extension cord" and don't question preventatives. They want ALL the tests. Meanwhile the Medical Associations are shoving recommendations for screenings at what seems like an exponential rate, so you can see why people go for it. I wonder if it's going to be generational. Right now Silent Gen and the very oldest Baby Boomers are receiving all this intensive preventive diagnostic intervention, and anyone who wants it should absolutely get it, but they're probably people who never saw this long dwindle with their own parents and grandparents. I'm betting most of their parents and grandparents died non or mini interventionist deaths because there was little to no intervention. Death was quicker. I doubt it was as peaceful because hospice services just weren't as available then and main management drugs were fewer and less accessible. It's Young Boomers, Gen X, and Millennials who are watching first hand the long slow dwindle of parents and grandparents where body and mind are not up for living and doing and interacting for years sometimes. Even now the oldest generations often say, "I don't want to be a burden" and I understand feeling that way, almost everyone would say the same thing, but the long dwindle is a burden to those elders who are slowly dwindling, and I'm not sure they really thought through what contributes to that. Sure, bad lifestyle choices do, but so do some interventions at some point. Maybe the point is earlier than we ever figured. Plenty of us are witnessing dwindling elders whose lives are miserable at the last chapter and who are burdened by it, but many elders themselves don't seem to be able to assess that clearly. They want to age in place, but they need constant care. They say they don't want to be a burden, so they lie to themselves that they don't need continuous care, that they're fine at home on their own, but so many of then are not. Many are upset by their loneliness, and who wouldn't be? But they have sandwiched family members who can't visit daily, and the elders don't have it in them physically or mentally to go and develop relationships with other lonely dwindling elders, so what's the point of extending biological life as far as possible if abstract life like relationships can't be maintained? To me, it seems these are not questions to ask just about a DNR. I'm betting many people in younger generations who cared for their dwindling parents and grandparents are going to start thinking about routine preventive diagnostics and interventions as a lifestyle choice, not a given, for elders and maybe even late middle age. I've had a front row seat for my grandparents (Greatest Gen.) and my parents and in-laws (Last year Silent Gen.) and I'm asking, "Do I want to live the way Granny did? Do I want to live the way Mom is now? What set them on that path? What do the paths away from that look like? What do the other destinations look like?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 35 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: I wonder if it's because he lives in a state with a huge retired population and many hospice providers. Someone from hospice was at his house the day he called. I worked with hospice for a very short time. I think it's more likely he got a formal diagnosis, didn't tell anyone or discuss it with anyone but his doctor, and chose hospice instead of treatment to avoid family drama. Hospice can't just come because of state abundance, it's paid for by the federal government and there are boxes that must be checked before you qualify. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, Katy said: I worked with hospice for a very short time. I think it's more likely he got a formal diagnosis, didn't tell anyone or discuss it with anyone but his doctor, and chose hospice instead of treatment to avoid family drama. Hospice can't just come because of state abundance, it's paid for by the federal government and there are boxes that must be checked before you qualify. Could be. All I know is my mother said he never allowed a doctor to diagnose the lump on his face, he was in agony, and she talked to him into calling hospice and they were there that same day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Pawz4me said: They're voluntary on the work from home. And they have a goodly number of engineers and other people who HAVE to come in to keep things running. I have this on very good authority from someone very close to me who works in the tech industry in the same area. He was not surprised in the least when I told him the reports of their parking lots Many people in Silicon Valley are going into work today even though their employers advise them to work as much as possible offsite. I have heard several reasons: free food (lunch and dinner is safer to eat when it is catered at work rather than fending for oneself at a restaurant for many young local professionals), older people cannot work because of kids being home too (neighbor walked out of his home and drove to work because son was practicing violin and driving him nuts, apparently), work is safer now due to distancing due to few people there, some jobs need access to physical servers which vpn cannot provide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, mathnerd said: Many people in Silicon Valley are going into work today even though their employers advise them to work as much as possible offsite. My husband is at work. We live in a condo and wall has ears so it’s hard to take a conference call at home. The US101 traffic near NASA AMES is flowing smoother probably due to people arriving in office at different times instead of commute hour rush. Between the violin and the clarinet, people would drive to office 😂 I managed to buy ginger at Safeway. 1lb box for $5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said: Anyone think this will impact the number of people placed in nursing homes in the long term? (By long term I mean this discussion, not the length of time the person is put in the nursing home for.) In other words, will families shift to make different decisions to keep parents at home longer, or completely if possible? I think for most families, the decision is a financial one, not a health one. Nursing homes already tend to be a place of last resort. I do, uh, see a lot more beds being available this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 We have some luxury end nursing homes where my parents live....but most people with that type of money still prefer to live at home with full services---gardener, housekeeper, etc. and just eat out in restaurants for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They switch to meal delivery when they stop driving. They only go to facilities when they cannot get by living on their own with drop-in nursing care and need either twice daily or more care. It's a financial decision either way---either they are opting out of nursing care because they have the money to pay for everything a la carte while staying in their own home OR they are going to nursing care because their children need to work and can't manage doing it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Yeah, the luxury ones here have "guest apartments" that you can rent out for when family visits. It's actually kind of a cool feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 WiFi was cranky this morning for the community college student WiFi and our own T-mobile WiFi. Guess networks are getting overwhelmed with people working from home. More parents are driving kids to community college so the commute is still bad this morning and parking is hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I’ve been wondering about the current hospital system where we house all infections diseases, cancer patients in the same hospitals but separate wards. This disease getting going in the Italy hospital contributed early to the death rate. would it be financially viable or feasible in larger cities to have designated infectious disease hospitals separate from those undergoing treatment for cancer or other diseases that make them vulnerable etc. I realise that my knowledge of how the current system works is vague. Here we have specific separate hospital for women’s and kids. But maybe instead of the super hospitals we’re currently building we need smaller hospitals that deal with more specific areas of illness. I’m not sure how that would work with sharing specialists etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 44 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said: I’ve been wondering about the current hospital system where we house all infections diseases, cancer patients in the same hospitals but separate wards. This disease getting going in the Italy hospital contributed early to the death rate. would it be financially viable or feasible in larger cities to have designated infectious disease hospitals separate from those undergoing treatment for cancer or other diseases that make them vulnerable etc. The cancer center (California) I go to for my treatment has four centers within easy driving distance for me (but difficult by public transport). The main center which I prefer is linked by a walkway to the hospital. So that walkway could be closed In worst case scenarios as the staff needs to beep their badge for the doors to open. The other three satellite centers are by themselves. In Singapore’s case, they had gone through containment for TB, leprosy, Pneumonia, SARS. So three diseases (excluding leprosy) that affects the pulmonary systems. They should know the drill and they have isolation buildings. TB used to be six months of isolation and treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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