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3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Looks like there’s a shift on messaging around masks?  With pence wearing one yesterday and trump saying he wasn’t against wearing them?  I don’t want to get political but I do think a shift from the top will help.

I agree with you.

But... The president is holding a 7,500 person 4th of July fireworks thing at Mt Rushmore, where distancing and masks are optional.

I'm going to be really upset if states wait until they have a disaster on their hands, then order mask mandates, and then find that masks work. Like... you couldn't have done this easy, cheap, effective thing sooner?!

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22 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think realizing it is a vascular problem, not just a respiratory problem, is helping a lot. 

Oh yeah, good point. Blood thinners have become standard treatment over that time.

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1 hour ago, TracyP said:

Does anybody have thoughts on whether new treatment protocols could be improving outcomes? 

I have been looking at icu numbers and deaths for my state. If you assume the deaths from today were in the ICU yesterday than there has been a huge improvement. At the end of April it appears you had a 13-25% chance of dying if you were in ICU, but that has steadily dropped over the last 2 months. It is now a 2.5-7% chance of dying.

Has anybody else noticed this type of improvement? Any thoughts on what might be making the difference?

Is that actually the right calculation? Wouldn’t you need to think about how long someone has been in the ICU?

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My operating assumption is still that outcomes aren’t improving much but that our case counts are way off. I could be wrong, though. On the other hand, I think treatments that worked really well would be being publicized.

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56 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

No, there is an absence of data that they spread the virus, not data that they don't spread it. Very different. 

No, I think there’s some data that they don’t spread it. I was super worried about elementary school reopenings in Europe, and I’m not seeing major spread there. 

The question is not whether there’s any spread, the question is whether it’s a major driver of spread. As we keep seeing in the US, the major drivers seem to be longer gatherings inside, with AC being worse than no AC. If childcare settings were a major driver, I would expect to have seen correlation with reopening elementary schools and also would have heard about major outbreaks — if kids are driving outbreaks, they’d bring them home, and the chain would result in the usual sort of explosion.

I still don’t feel comfortable with my kids in that setting next year and I’m continuing to gather data. However, I do think there’s now some evidence.

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Is that actually the right calculation? Wouldn’t you need to think about how long someone has been in the ICU?

I'm not positive it's the right calculation. I am seeing a trend where that 13-25% holds true all through April, then steadily improves until we get to this 2.5-7% average that has held steady for the last 2 weeks. The time any given individual spent in ICU should be irrelevant when looking over a span of 12+ weeks, right?

 

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

No, I think there’s some data that they don’t spread it. I was super worried about elementary school reopenings in Europe, and I’m not seeing major spread there. 

The question is not whether there’s any spread, the question is whether it’s a major driver of spread. As we keep seeing in the US, the major drivers seem to be longer gatherings inside, with AC being worse than no AC. If childcare settings were a major driver, I would expect to have seen correlation with reopening elementary schools and also would have heard about major outbreaks — if kids are driving outbreaks, they’d bring them home, and the chain would result in the usual sort of explosion.

I still don’t feel comfortable with my kids in that setting next year and I’m continuing to gather data. However, I do think there’s now some evidence.

But that would require robust contact tracing and testing - do we have that regarding schools in any meaningful way?

If a kid gets it from another kid at school, but is asymptomatic and not tested, and gives it to mom, who has only mild symptoms and is not tested, who gives it to a few coworkers, who get sick and ARE tested but they have no kids in school, what are the chances it actually gets traced back to the school or daycare?

I can confidently say that in my state there is ZERO chance that would be linked to the school/daycare. 

Edited by Ktgrok
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11 minutes ago, square_25 said:

My operating assumption is still that outcomes aren’t improving much but that our case counts are way off. I could be wrong, though. On the other hand, I think treatments that worked really well would be being publicized.

Which is why hospitalization numbers have always been a better indicator than case numbers. I think those are generally very accurate.

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6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But that would require robust contact tracing and testing - do we have that regarding schools in any meaningful way?

If a kid gets it from another kid at school, but is asymptomatic and not tested, and gives it to mom, who has only mild symptoms and is not tested, who gives it to a few coworkers, who get sick and ARE tested but they have no kids in school, what are the chances it actually gets traced back to the school or daycare?

I can confidently say that in my state there is ZERO chance that would be linked to the school/daycare. 

I don’t think it’d be traced, but it’d lead to an outbreak, and I didn’t see associated outbreaks in places that reopened elementary schools. This is not very strong data — just based on watching the numbers. I’d FAR prefer actual contact tracing data.

I’m definitely continuing to watch this. It’s not like my mind is made up... just reporting my impression of the evidence.

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7 minutes ago, TracyP said:

Which is why hospitalization numbers have always been a better indicator than case numbers. I think those are generally very accurate.

Yes, those are definitely better. I’m also watching the positivity rate.

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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But that would require robust contact tracing and testing - do we have that regarding schools in any meaningful way?

If a kid gets it from another kid at school, but is asymptomatic and not tested, and gives it to mom, who has only mild symptoms and is not tested, who gives it to a few coworkers, who get sick and ARE tested but they have no kids in school, what are the chances it actually gets traced back to the school or daycare?

I can confidently say that in my state there is ZERO chance that would be linked to the school/daycare. 

This would probably not be caught in my state. However, if 8 kids got sick at daycare and spread it to their families, even if only 4 of those families were symptomatic I absolutely think it would be caught in my state. So far it hasn't happened. I'm not yet sure exactly what that means, I wish we had more info. It does seem to me that young kids are not causing any large outbreaks. I will absolutely change my tune if I start to see this happening.

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52 minutes ago, square_25 said:

My operating assumption is still that outcomes aren’t improving much but that our case counts are way off. I could be wrong, though. On the other hand, I think treatments that worked really well would be being publicized.

 

Hospitals are getting better at treating covid since the beginning of the outbreak.  There's no silver bullet, but remdesivir helps some, the MATH+ protocols help, pronation helps, delaying intubation helps.  There's all kinds of formal and informal communications between hospital professionals about what works and what doesn't work.

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12 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But that would require robust contact tracing and testing - do we have that regarding schools in any meaningful way?

If a kid gets it from another kid at school, but is asymptomatic and not tested, and gives it to mom, who has only mild symptoms and is not tested, who gives it to a few coworkers, who get sick and ARE tested but they have no kids in school, what are the chances it actually gets traced back to the school or daycare?

I can confidently say that in my state there is ZERO chance that would be linked to the school/daycare. 

In the US?  Not much.  We do know that the virus hasn't spread through daycare centers, including a study of 100,000 kids of essential workers in NYC, and studies of kids in YMCA childcare across the country.  You would think that if we saw spread among children anywhere it would have been there.   There are a few situations where there is spread in daycare where they did test widely, but it seems like there was more spread from teacher to teacher, and some from teacher to student.   In Israel, they opened schools successfully, and then things fell apart when they opened secondary schools.  

But other countries are contact tracing, and are opening with lots of data.  In Israel opening primary schools clearly didn't cause spiking, while opening secondary schools was a disaster.  The situation is Victoria, Australia is awful, but hopefully it will yield more information. 

I don't think that we know sure, but I think that school systems that are opening for elementary, and not for high school may be on to something.  There are other reasons why opening for younger kids makes sense too.  Our economy is dependent on childcare, and a "pod style" opening with kids staying with the same group all day will be much easier to implement with younger kids.  

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3 hours ago, TracyP said:

Does anybody have thoughts on whether new treatment protocols could be improving outcomes? 

I have been looking at icu numbers and deaths for my state. If you assume the deaths from today were in the ICU yesterday than there has been a huge improvement. At the end of April it appears you had a 13-25% chance of dying if you were in ICU, but that has steadily dropped over the last 2 months. It is now a 2.5-7% chance of dying.

Has anybody else noticed this type of improvement? Any thoughts on what might be making the difference?

 

I have been following DrBeen on YouTube, and I do think some of what is being learned about treatment is helping. 

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21 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

In the US?  Not much.  We do know that the virus hasn't spread through daycare centers, including a study of 100,000 kids of essential workers in NYC, and studies of kids in YMCA childcare across the country.  You would think that if we saw spread among children anywhere it would have been there.   There are a few situations where there is spread in daycare where they did test widely, but it seems like there was more spread from teacher to teacher, and some from teacher to student.   In Israel, they opened schools successfully, and then things fell apart when they opened secondary schools.  

But other countries are contact tracing, and are opening with lots of data.  In Israel opening primary schools clearly didn't cause spiking, while opening secondary schools was a disaster.  The situation is Victoria, Australia is awful, but hopefully it will yield more information. 

I don't think that we know sure, but I think that school systems that are opening for elementary, and not for high school may be on to something.  There are other reasons why opening for younger kids makes sense too.  Our economy is dependent on childcare, and a "pod style" opening with kids staying with the same group all day will be much easier to implement with younger kids.  

My son is in an advanced group and the last week of school they talked about what they knew already about next year

1) They won't be advancing as fast as they have been. THey are slowing down the schedule. Probably partly because they didn't get through everything they expected to in 7th grade and expect 8th to be similar -- the disruption will mean they can not fly through the curriculum as fast as they expect.

In addition, I suspect they have been trying to shut down this particular program and shuttle all the advanced kids into advanced classes in their own schools instead of together across the whole district.

 

2) They may well be in one room for most of next year, yet still studying online, and trying to group the ASCEND students together to get their teaching, whether it ends up being in person (With the teachers moving instead of the students) or online yet in the school building

 

3) (They didn't cover what would happen with extra classes at all -- like band. OTOH I'm not sure band is going to be able to do much in the fall, at least. We have private lessons and regular practice to keep him from regressing)

 

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

But that would require robust contact tracing and testing - do we have that regarding schools in any meaningful way?

If a kid gets it from another kid at school, but is asymptomatic and not tested, and gives it to mom, who has only mild symptoms and is not tested, who gives it to a few coworkers, who get sick and ARE tested but they have no kids in school, what are the chances it actually gets traced back to the school or daycare?

I can confidently say that in my state there is ZERO chance that would be linked to the school/daycare. 

 

Same here. 

In my area only children with parents in essential services were going to school / child care, and the school / childcare had ~ 25 kids spread out in a physical setting that normally would  have ~ 125 - 200 kids.  And they were being super careful.   I don’t know if that’s typical of other places.   I don’t think apparent lack of spread in those circumstances can be interpreted to mean that children can not spread SARS2.   A few months ago we were being told it only spread from animals, no human-to-human transmission. 

Edited by Pen
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1 hour ago, GGardner said:

 

Hospitals are getting better at treating covid since the beginning of the outbreak.  There's no silver bullet, but remdesivir helps some, the MATH+ protocols help, pronation helps, delaying intubation helps.  There's all kinds of formal and informal communications between hospital professionals about what works and what doesn't work.

Here’s hoping they are getting better. I’d like more data, though.

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1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

In the US?  Not much.  We do know that the virus hasn't spread through daycare centers, including a study of 100,000 kids of essential workers in NYC, and studies of kids in YMCA childcare across the country.  You would think that if we saw spread among children anywhere it would have been there.   There are a few situations where there is spread in daycare where they did test widely, but it seems like there was more spread from teacher to teacher, and some from teacher to student.   In Israel, they opened schools successfully, and then things fell apart when they opened secondary schools.  

But other countries are contact tracing, and are opening with lots of data.  In Israel opening primary schools clearly didn't cause spiking, while opening secondary schools was a disaster.  The situation is Victoria, Australia is awful, but hopefully it will yield more information. 

I don't think that we know sure, but I think that school systems that are opening for elementary, and not for high school may be on to something.  There are other reasons why opening for younger kids makes sense too.  Our economy is dependent on childcare, and a "pod style" opening with kids staying with the same group all day will be much easier to implement with younger kids.  

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. Opening schools just for younger kids makes sense to be, provided we don’t get more alarming data.

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There is a daycare incident here at a kinder care. 20 positive so far—including 8 kids—and they are still testing. This is the third daycare incident I know of, and our state actually has really good COVID/daycare rules.

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Our district has said straight up—if you want an all online program, join the district online program. Also, there will be no “normal” school—expect a hybrid for the rest. I suspect jr high and high school will be in twice a week and they are working on elementary scenarios now with the goal to get them in to the building more often. I do know they are working off of a “stable cohort” model.

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13 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. Opening schools just for younger kids makes sense to be, provided we don’t get more alarming data.

My biggest concern for opening schools for little kids, assuming people do a pod style where classes aren't meeting mixing, and they keep things like teacher planning and faculty meeting online, is transportation. 

In the city where I teach, kids ride public transportation, and travel across the city to school. I think NYC is the same, right?  Adding that many people to public transportation is going to be a problem.  Even if the kids don't catch or spread it, they are generally chaperoned, and the chaperones can.  And teachers will be riding too.   Plus if you crowd the bus or train with people, then people are going to get shoved together, and some of those people will be adults on their way to work etc . . . 

In suburbia, where we live, school buses are going to be an issue.  If kids spread at all, then jamming them together 3 to a seat isn't the solution.  For the first few months, in our area, they can get away with open windows, but in winter that would be hard.  As someone who went to high school in Canada, I can tell you that at some point it will riding with open windows from hard to unsafe.   

As far as I can tell, getting bus numbers down is the biggest reason why schools are doing shortened or staggered days.  

Edited by CuriousMomof3
I swear my brain just does not work anymore.
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4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There is a daycare incident here at a kinder care. 20 positive so far—including 8 kids—and they are still testing. This is the third daycare incident I know of, and our state actually has really good COVID/daycare rules.

I think the million dollar question isn't whether kids can get it from teachers.  We know that.  Most kids who get it get it at home (as do most people) and what daycare teachers do is very much like what parents do in terms of level of contact.  You can't change a diaper from 6 feet away.

The question that need to be answered are whether kids can get it from each other,  or give it to their teachers, and whether kids get it and bring it home and spread it to their parents.  

Hopefully, if they're doing genomic sequencing in Australia and other places, we'll figure that out.  

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2 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I think the million dollar question isn't whether kids can get it from teachers.  We know that.  Most kids who get it get it at home (as do most people) and what daycare teachers do is very much like what parents do in terms of level of contact.  You can't change a diaper from 6 feet away.

The question that need to be answered are whether kids can get it from each other,  or give it to their teachers, and whether kids get it and bring it home and spread it to their parents.  

Hopefully, if they're doing genomic sequencing in Australia and other places, we'll figure that out.  

Exactly. That’s why I thought it was interesting that more staff than kids are being diagnosed in daycares so far.

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6 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There is a daycare incident here at a kinder care. 20 positive so far—including 8 kids—and they are still testing. This is the third daycare incident I know of, and our state actually has really good COVID/daycare rules.

 

Oregon only officially began including child care outbreaks in weekly reports on July 1.

and only if there are 5 or more confirmed cases at the facility and the facility is for at least 30 children iirc.

I do not know if prior lack of evidence of such outbreaks is because of lack of incidents or because they weren’t being reported.

and I do not know if people who think there are none in their states have an absence of evidence due to it not needing to be reported. 

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We’ll have more data soon enough, I expect. I’m just telling you all what I’d bet money on, if I had to.

Edited by square_25

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1 hour ago, cintinative said:

 has this been discussed?  Regarding transmission via children.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7268273

Unfortunately, I don't think 12 days and without testing anyone asymptomatic tells us a lot, but it's good to know that the three presymptomatic and newly symptomatic kids attending didn't spread it to the teachers even in band and choir.

With regard to opening childcare, has anywhere in the US gone back to normal capacity? In my area, medical, pharmacy, grocery, and emergency personnel have been at work all along; retail personnel have gone back but not to 100%, and indeed I see signs that some stores are reorganizing and possibly closing; and many workers are still at home & have their kids still at home, including teachers, most state/county/city employees, and software folks. Around here, this is a significant percentage of kids not back to daycare after nearly four months. (And the state homeschool website crashed yesterday as a tsunami of parents tried to file their notices of intent.)

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14 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

What do people think is the reasonable thing to do in a case like this, where people clearly violated the Phase 1 reopening guidelines that limited gatherings to 10 people or fewer?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/the-virus-didnt-stop-a-washington-socialite-from-throwing-a-backyard-soiree-then-the-tests-came-back-positive/2020/07/01/841041ba-ba19-11ea-bdaf-a129f921026f_story.html

Should there be consequences for the hostess?  For the guests?  For the company that agreed to cater?  

I find it fascinating that one would hold an event that is illegal, and then invite the press to come write an article about it.  I don't think that happens for other illegal acts, people usually try to hide them.  So, why is this different?

 

 

I'm thinking volunteer work. Transfer them to a nearby hotspot where they take the job of transferring dead bodies from hospitals to morgues.

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2 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

I'm thinking volunteer work. Transfer them to a nearby hotspot where they take the job of transferring dead bodies from hospitals to morgues.

That sounds reasonable to me.  

 

ETA:  We need a different punishmet for the Alabama idiots though, because that punishment would probably assure that they won the stupid contest.

Edited by CuriousMomof3

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5 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

I'm thinking volunteer work. Transfer them to a nearby hotspot where they take the job of transferring dead bodies from hospitals to morgues.

 

That would be good for the Covid partiers too - the ones trying to catch it. 

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https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/505437-new-york-county-issues-subpoenas-to-people-refusing-to-talk-to-contact

It's hard to rely on contact tracing when people have to be subpoenaed to even comply.  And even then how do you know that you are getting accurate information from these selfish people? 

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3 hours ago, square_25 said:

Yes, those are definitely better. I’m also watching the positivity rate.

My state doesn't report new hospitalizations, or current ones, only total. So positivity rate is the best we have. 

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1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I think the million dollar question isn't whether kids can get it from teachers.  We know that.  Most kids who get it get it at home (as do most people) and what daycare teachers do is very much like what parents do in terms of level of contact.  You can't change a diaper from 6 feet away.

The question that need to be answered are whether kids can get it from each other,  or give it to their teachers, and whether kids get it and bring it home and spread it to their parents.  

Hopefully, if they're doing genomic sequencing in Australia and other places, we'll figure that out.  

Yes, this is super important to know. 

Are we asking teachers to go into a life and death situation, at teacher pay? 

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59 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

That sounds reasonable to me.  

 

ETA:  We need a different punishmet for the Alabama idiots though, because that punishment would probably assure that they won the stupid contest.

 

Perhaps, but I think they just need reality to set in. 

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23 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes, this is super important to know. 

Are we asking teachers to go into a life and death situation, at teacher pay? 

This is how universities are largely winding up online — most professors are refusing to go into a classroom, as it seems like the perfect set up for viral spread.

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38 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes, this is super important to know. 

Are we asking teachers to go into a life and death situation, at teacher pay? 

Isn't this what we decided, though? That we can't eliminate all risk, and that we need to get schools going again so parents can return to work?  Teachers should pave the way, like other essential workers, in sacrificing themselves so that the economy can continue on.

I don't know how many news pieces I have heard this week about how children are suffering because parents are abusing them, not feeding them, and are causing emotional trauma by keeping them home this summer.  I started a tally today, and I'm up to 6 stories....largely all referring to what the American Academy of Pediatrics has released as their position.

Children may have less disease severity because they have fewer ACE receptors, but I have yet to meet a (sane) person who doesn't believe that schools are germ factories.

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2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Isn't this what we decided, though? That we can't eliminate all risk, and that we need to get schools going again so parents can return to work?  Teachers should pave the way, like other essential workers, in sacrificing themselves so that the economy can continue on.

I don't know how many news pieces I have heard this week about how children are suffering because parents are abusing them, not feeding them, and are causing emotional trauma by keeping them home this summer.  I started a tally today, and I'm up to 6 stories....largely all referring to what the American Academy of Pediatrics has released as their position.

Children may have less disease severity because they have fewer ACE receptors, but I have yet to meet a (sane) person who doesn't believe that schools are germ factories.

At least grocery workers have plexi glass in some places, can wear a mask, often customers are required to wear masks, etc. 

Seems people want schools to open without any of that, at least here. 

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6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

At least grocery workers have plexi glass in some places, can wear a mask, often customers are required to wear masks, etc. 

Seems people want schools to open without any of that, at least here. 

Our state has issued guidance to districts.....they are definitely talking about plexiglass shields in places, clear shields, and masking....for those over 12. 

I just looked at our old district in TX....they are saying no masks, full-time school, etc.  It's insanity. Of course, TX isn't doing too well these days. 

These next few months are going to be "interesting". I have a feeling that disease activity will start to drive decision making again...we will be reacting rather than being proactive.

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How do I safely (for her safety) stay at night with my 70 year old mother? Her recovery from surgery isn’t going near as well as hoped. I’ve spent the last several days at the hospital but would go home at night. Tonight, she’s at home and she can’t stay alone. I’m wearing a mask now during the day but what do I do while I’m sleeping. There is no way I can sleep in a mask as I’m really feeling the last few days and I feel like crud due to the mask wearing all day for several days. There is literally no one else so I have to do this. My teens are going out with small groups of friends and protests so I’m concerned about giving anything to her. 

Will just sleeping in a different room but masking when she needs me be enough? Doors will be open but I could be in another room.

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6 minutes ago, Joker said:

How do I safely (for her safety) stay at night with my 70 year old mother? Her recovery from surgery isn’t going near as well as hoped. I’ve spent the last several days at the hospital but would go home at night. Tonight, she’s at home and she can’t stay alone. I’m wearing a mask now during the day but what do I do while I’m sleeping. There is no way I can sleep in a mask as I’m really feeling the last few days and I feel like crud due to the mask wearing all day for several days. There is literally no one else so I have to do this. My teens are going out with small groups of friends and protests so I’m concerned about giving anything to her. 

Will just sleeping in a different room but masking when she needs me be enough? Doors will be open but I could be in another room.

Could you sleep in another room and keep windows open at night?

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6 hours ago, TracyP said:

Does anybody have thoughts on whether new treatment protocols could be improving outcomes? 

I have been looking at icu numbers and deaths for my state. If you assume the deaths from today were in the ICU yesterday than there has been a huge improvement. At the end of April it appears you had a 13-25% chance of dying if you were in ICU, but that has steadily dropped over the last 2 months. It is now a 2.5-7% chance of dying.

Has anybody else noticed this type of improvement? Any thoughts on what might be making the difference?

Current average infection age is younger.

Vitamin D levels should be higher.

We have a friend who is a nurse in a hospital that has seen large numbers of cases, he says both Hydroxychloroquin and plasma are working, he is really mad at the news right now for not reporting that.  (HCQ early with Zinc.)

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2 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Current average infection age is younger.

Vitamin D levels should be higher.

We have a friend who is a nurse in a hospital that has seen large numbers of cases, he says both Hydroxychloroquin and plasma are working, he is really mad at the news right now for not reporting that.  (HCQ early with Zinc.)

I wondered about more young people getting infected. I am under the impression that older people are still getting infected at the same rate, but I could be wrong. I really wish I had more information on hospitalizations by age.

I keep hearing mixed results about HCQ. I wish it hadn't become so politicized... Interesting to hear on the plasma. I know studies are being done and I'm really looking forward to the results.

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24 minutes ago, Joker said:

How do I safely (for her safety) stay at night with my 70 year old mother? Her recovery from surgery isn’t going near as well as hoped. I’ve spent the last several days at the hospital but would go home at night. Tonight, she’s at home and she can’t stay alone. I’m wearing a mask now during the day but what do I do while I’m sleeping. There is no way I can sleep in a mask as I’m really feeling the last few days and I feel like crud due to the mask wearing all day for several days. There is literally no one else so I have to do this. My teens are going out with small groups of friends and protests so I’m concerned about giving anything to her. 

Will just sleeping in a different room but masking when she needs me be enough? Doors will be open but I could be in another room.

 

Distance helps   So different room should help

fresh air helps  (open windows as much as possible?) 

could cloth be hung on her or your doorway to sort of mask the room? 

Or both?

an air filter? 

 

Can you take some outdoors mask breaks for yourself? 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Current average infection age is younger.

Vitamin D levels should be higher.

We have a friend who is a nurse in a hospital that has seen large numbers of cases, he says both Hydroxychloroquin and plasma are working, he is really mad at the news right now for not reporting that.  (HCQ early with Zinc.)

It’s really hard to judge things from anecdotes like this. I hope they have more studies of this treatment.

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15 minutes ago, ElizabethB said:

Current average infection age is younger.

Vitamin D levels should be higher.

We have a friend who is a nurse in a hospital that has seen large numbers of cases, he says both Hydroxychloroquin and plasma are working, he is really mad at the news right now for not reporting that.  (HCQ early with Zinc.)

 

Everyone I know who has had personal experience with early HCQ plus zinc has said it helps. 

I am very agnostic about WHO, CDC, and Mainstream Media. 

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