wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

397,000 cases worldwide yesterday 

[Laura Corin]

27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/dossiers/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-chiffres-cles-et-evolution-de-la-covid-19-en-france-et-dans-le-monde
 

It’s here but don’t worry unless you want to and have the spare time.  

On a quick look, that site seems to just track numbers rather than analysing the reasons for any rise.

[Shoeless]

8 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

In my state, they are releasing the protocols of who will be getting the vaccines in what order today.  I have no idea if I will be considered high risk or not, because the data about autoimmune susceptibility, immuno suppression issues and other things I have are all over the place.  Like with high blood pressure- if you have it but take medications and control it so it isn't high, are you still high risk?

I wish I knew the answer to this.  My husband has had high blood pressure since his early 20's (runs in the family), but it's well controlled with medication.  Does that make him high risk or the same risk level as someone without high bp?  

Edited to add: One thing I have noticed about cases here in Texas: There is a big jump in the number of fatalities when you go from ages 40-49 and 50-59.  Fatalities more than double for the older age group, but then they drop again for ages 60-64.  I wonder if the reason for this is because there is more undiagnosed (and thus untreated) high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes in the 50-59 age group. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by MissLemon

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

I wish I knew the answer to this.  My husband has had high blood pressure since his early 20's (runs in the family), but it's well controlled with medication.  Does that make him high risk or the same risk level as someone without high bp?  

Edited to add: One thing I have noticed about cases here in Texas: There is a big jump in the number of fatalities when you go from ages 40-49 and 50-59.  Fatalities more than double for the older age group, but then they drop again for ages 60-64.  I wonder if the reason for this is because there is more undiagnosed (and thus untreated) high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes in the 50-59 age group. 

Are you looking at the percentage of deaths that are in each age category?  50-59 year olds have more deaths, but they have many more cases, so the percentage of 50-59 year olds who are infected and then die is much lower than the rate of death among those who are infected who are 60-64.  

But, I just looked at the Texas dashboard and there is something wrong with the reporting of the numbers.  On the Texas COVID dashboard, 1403 cases are reported in 70-74 age group but over 2200 deaths are reported in that age group.n  (and the data says it was updated today)--needless to say, you can't have over a 100% death rate for that age group.

[Ausmumof3]

Just one case in Vic today.

[BeachGal]

@TravelingChris and @MissLemon

From what I read, if blood pressure is under control with meds, then the risk of worse symptoms of Covid should be reduced. It won't be entirely eliminated but it is much better than having unregulated high blood pressure.

[Ausmumof3]

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1494/5920983
 

Study from China from April shows one outbreak is believed to have spread after a sewer pipe leaked and people walked it in on shoes 🤢

[ktgrok]

11 hours ago, dmmetler said:

It's pretty well known that if you have autoimmune disorders, vaccines can trigger a flare. However, my specialist feels that it is worth the risk for me to stay up to date, do a flu shot yearly, etc-because illness will ALSO trigger autoimmune reactions, and at least when we do a vaccine, it is when everything else is stable, so I'm not dealing with a flare on top  of a really bad flu or something like that. 

 

Yes, my son's neuropsychiatrist and his GI who treats his Celiac agree - vaccine may cause a flare, but we can anticipate that and treat accordingly, and the illness itself would do the same, but on top of the illness, and likely worse. 

So we give vaccines, but hydrate well, and dose with ibuprofen if need be. 

[Pen]

 

At some point looking up information on supplements in re CV19 I came across something that suggested that having  good zinc levels is needed for vaccines to work properly. (Iirc I think it related to children in some other country where soil is zinc deficient and where vaccines don’t seem to “take” well.) If any of you know of or notice anything related to that could you let me know please. 

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1494/5920983
 

Study from China from April shows one outbreak is believed to have spread after a sewer pipe leaked and people walked it in on shoes 🤢

That probably means there was splashing involved too.  And of course, sewage with loads of coronavirus is way, way different than someone with coronavirus touching a can of peas or whatever.

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

That probably means there was splashing involved too.  And of course, sewage with loads of coronavirus is way, way different than someone with coronavirus touching a can of peas or whatever.

This news certainly doesn't make me feel any better about public restrooms and the aerosolized flume after flushing... 🤢

Edited October 17, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Pen]

There were several indications in spring of spread via sewage / sewage systems 

and I recall something from probably China, but possibly elsewhere in Asia saying good functioning sewage systems is critical 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

This news certainly doesn't make me feel any better about public restrooms and the aerosolized flume after flushing... 🤢

I don't know about China specifically or even this decade (🙂) but when I lived in Japan open sewers were a thing.  In fact, the "stream" we walked over, played around and sometimes fell in was actually an open sewer.  We don't tend to have that here in the West at least as far as I know. 

[Pen]

 

Dr Been q&a last night included need for copper if high dose zinc is taken long term

NAC as a blood thinner 

Luteolin

Carbohydrates as inflammation enhancers 

another possible drug

... 

 

[Pen]

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/08/418241/aeronabs-promise-powerful-inhalable-protection-against-covid-19

 

I am wondering how aeronabs are doing. Whether still in process and if so what phase they are at. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/10/super-antigen-tied-multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-children-long-covid/
 

“This spike fragment resembles the bacterial toxins known as super antigens—proteins that generate excessive reaction from T cells, a vital member of the immune system. Other research shows that severe COVID-19 results from immune systems overreacting to coronavirus, causing cascades of excess inflammation that permanently damage many parts of the body. Arditi says the spike fragment may explain why MIS-C has the appearance of what happens during blood infections like sepsis or bacterial toxic shock syndrome.”

and

“The distinguishing feature of both MIS-C and MIS-A are the gastrointestinal symptoms. Arditi says that, again, a clue might be found in the super-antigenic region of the virus’s spike.”

[TravelingChris]

Question about false positives./   How common are these?  Coach Saban had a positive on Wed with no symptoms then three negatives on Thursday, Friday and Sat.  Are people like that simply misdiagnosed with COVID?  

[Ausmumof3]

https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/5/52/eabe5511
 

Covid antibodies can also be detected in saliva fairly reliably so this may be another way of monitoring the immune response 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

Question about false positives./   How common are these?  Coach Saban had a positive on Wed with no symptoms then three negatives on Thursday, Friday and Sat.  Are people like that simply misdiagnosed with COVID?  

I don’t think they’re very common but there are some.  There’s was a panic in QLD where it was found in an area where it hadn’t been before that turned out the be false positive.  There’s also the risk the test got contaminated in the lab somewhere.

[Pen]

Idk if this was already posted

https://scitechdaily.com/new-blood-test-accurately-predicts-which-covid-19-patients-will-develop-severe-infection/

 

[Pen]

https://scitechdaily.com/closing-borders-and-stopping-the-covid-19-virus-who-eu-were-fatally-mistaken/

 

 

[kbutton]

https://www.startribune.com/in-minnesota-study-u-s-engineers-try-to-orchestrate-a-return-to-concerts/572784222/

News about aerosols generated by orchestral instruments. 

[Pen]

17 minutes ago, kbutton said:

https://www.startribune.com/in-minnesota-study-u-s-engineers-try-to-orchestrate-a-return-to-concerts/572784222/

News about aerosols generated by orchestral instruments. 

 

The part about the thermal plume sounds extremely important to know. 

 

[kbutton]

37 minutes ago, kbutton said:

https://www.startribune.com/in-minnesota-study-u-s-engineers-try-to-orchestrate-a-return-to-concerts/572784222/

News about aerosols generated by orchestral instruments. 

 

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

The part about the thermal plume sounds extremely important to know. 

I'll quote it to make it easier for people.

Quote

At Orchestra Hall, the U researchers were surprised to find that the major concern wasn’t the horizontal projection of aerosols by the musicians. Instead, temperature differences between warmer body heat and colder ambient air caused aerosols to rise in a plume a few meters above the performers.

“We were expecting that flow coming from the instruments was going to be dominant … but it turned out to be not the case,” Hong said. “We had to redesign our experiment along the way.”

An upcoming report will offer suggestions on how to address any risks created by the plume, including a filter above the musicians that could entrap 95% of the particles, and a reduction in temperature that could drive the particles farther upward and out of harm’s way. Hong said it will have broader implications and recommendations for the use and positioning of air filters to capture particles in other indoor locations. CDC researchers have been in contact with the U team and might use their findings in their updated guidance to the nation on COVID-19 risks.

 

[Pen]

46 minutes ago, kbutton said:

 

I'll quote it to make it easier for people.

 

 

Assuming what is true to apply to breathing and speech at home, I am going to consider repositioning air filters.

with the wildfire smoke, even aside from plumes for aeorosols it was more smoky higher up...evident between basement and higher level but also could be true for in a room   Though particulate ash fell to surfaces. 

[Acadie]

I'm not totally up to date on this thread--has anyone posted Dan's Covid Charts?

He uses state-by-state data from the New York Times to create various time-lapse graphics. The ones on states with the most and least cases based on partisanship were interesting to me.

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Edited October 18, 2020 by Acadie

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Acadie said:

I'm not totally up to date on this thread--has anyone posted Dan's Covid Charts?

He uses state-by-state data from the New York Times to create various time-lapse graphics. The ones on states with the most and least cases based on partisanship were interesting to me.

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

I do not know how exactly he is doing things but the chart is nuts.  I live in Alabama, a red state, but a state that has and continues to have mandatory masking indoors.  We are doing much better according to most researchers than a number of surrounding states that do not have mandatory masking.   We haven't been on the list of high number of cases states for a few months now.

[BeachGal]

Big Kahuna open FDA meeting to discuss "the development, authorization and/or licensure of vaccines" is October 22nd starting at 10 am EST.

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-october-22-2020-meeting-announcement

Agenda
The meeting presentations will be heard, viewed, captioned, and recorded through an online teleconferencing platform. On October 22, 2020, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research’s (CBER), Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) will meet in open session, to discuss, in general, the development, authorization and/or licensure of vaccines to prevent COVID-19. No specific application will be discussed at this meeting.

 

Want to attend virtually? You may. It's open.

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-october-22-2020-meeting-announcement 

 

More articles about this:

https://sciencespeaksblog.org/2020/09/17/covid-19-new-eua-guidance-in-time-for-oct-22-fda-vaccine-meeting/

“While this meeting is not intended to discuss any particular vaccine candidates, the agency is also prepared to rapidly schedule additional meetings of this committee upon submission of any BLAs or requests for EUAs to further ensure transparence.”

 

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/you-too-can-see-how-covid-19-vaccines-are-approved

Edited October 18, 2020 by BeachGal
clarification

[Ausmumof3]

Four cases for Vic.  One had a previous positive test in July so they are checking to see if it’s dead virus still being shed or reinfection.  Restrictions are being relaxed a little bit with the allowed radius of 25km now.

[Ausmumof3]

Four new cases in NSW all in returned travellers.

[Pen]

3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I do not know how exactly he is doing things but the chart is nuts.  I live in Alabama, a red state, but a state that has and continues to have mandatory masking indoors.  We are doing much better according to most researchers than a number of surrounding states that do not have mandatory masking.   We haven't been on the list of high number of cases states for a few months now.

 

I have no idea about accuracy, but found the states with most and fewest deaths which started the simulation with March to be interesting to watch.

It does reflect my recollection of how Washington started out high with the early NH and first responders outbreak, but then other states surged past WA...

It didn’t make it a political statement on the high and low deaths part.  Maybe would not have fit whatever political point the guy wanted to make.

Anyway as I watched my impression was not that politics was the driver. It started especially badly in or near major metropolitan/international hubs , then later spread is what it looks like to me. 

 

[BeachGal]

Some interesting comments I read tonight:

The AstraZeneca trial in the US that has been paused is due to the FDA wanting Oxford’s patient information files formatted a certain way and that took some time. However, the US is still collecting data on patients here who were vaccinated in the trial before the pause. New enrollees who were scheduled to get vaccinated after the pause are still waiting to get vaccinated.

Theoretically, the FDA can use data from other countries when considering vaccines. In this case, the FDA could make a decision based on our data and Oxford’s as well as data from other countries conducting the AZ trials.

[BeachGal]

Just now, BeachGal said:

Some interesting comments I read tonight:

The AstraZeneca trial in the US that has been paused is due to the FDA wanting Oxford’s patient information files formatted a certain way and that has taken some time. However, the US is still collecting data on patients here who were vaccinated in the trial before the pause. New enrollees who were scheduled to get vaccinated after the pause are still waiting to get vaccinated.

Theoretically, the FDA can use data from other countries when considering vaccines. In this case, the FDA could make a decision based on our data and Oxford’s as well as data from other countries conducting the AZ trials.

 

[Ausmumof3]

BNO: - Poland prepares field hospital at national stadium as COVID cases continue to rise. Hospitalizations have risen by 171% in 2 weeks to reach 8,076

[Ausmumof3]

https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/10/19/poland-turning-national-stadium-into-field-hospital-to-deal-with-surge-in-covid-cases/

[Ausmumof3]

https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/10/16/polish-hospitals-struggle-with-covid-surge-while-government-shifts-blame-onto-doctors/

[Meriwether]

I'm taking my oldest to get tested today - she ran a fever Friday night and this was the first appointment I could get. She has always had dizzy spells when standing up, but now they are bad, starting. They got worse a day or two before other symptoms. And my next two kids have mentioned having dizzy spells in the last 24 hours. No known exposure, but Dd17 has been taking two college classes (masked) and works two jobs (also masked). In your reading, have you seen dizziness as an early indicator?

I used the word dizzy because that is the word Ds14 just used, but it is more lightheadedness. Dd17 has almost passed out several times and has to hold onto the bed each time she stands up.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Meriwether

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

I'm taking my oldest to get tested today - she ran a fever Friday night and this was the first appointment I could get. She has always had dizzy spells when standing up, but now they are bad, starting. They got worse a day or two before other symptoms. And my next two kids have mentioned having dizzy spells in the last 24 hours. No known exposure, but Dd17 has been taking two college classes (masked) and works two jobs (also masked). In your reading, have you seen dizziness as an early indicator?

I used the word dizzy because that is the word Ds14 just used, but it is more lightheadedness. Dd17 has almost passed out several times and has to hold onto the bed each time she stands up.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-29/health-problems-caused-by-covid-19/12402852
 

unfortunately yes it can be but it’s not one of the more common ones.  Hopefully it’s not Covid and is something minor.  I’m assuming iron levels, blood sugar etc are ok?

[Meriwether]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-29/health-problems-caused-by-covid-19/12402852
 

unfortunately yes it can be but it’s not one of the more common ones.  Hopefully it’s not Covid and is something minor.  I’m assuming iron levels, blood sugar etc are ok?

I would assume so. They are all generally very healthy. It seemed odd to me that they all experienced it if it is Covid, since Covid seems to affect people differently. I'm hoping it is another bug.

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Meriwether said:

I would assume so. They are all generally very healthy. It seemed odd to me that they all experienced it if it is Covid, since Covid seems to affect people differently. I'm hoping it is another bug.

Dizziness is also one of those weird things for me at least that if I start thinking about being dizzy I kind of get slightly dizzy so could be a bit of that going on.  Could be worth check pulse oximeter if you have access to one just to be on the safe side.  

[Meriwether]

29 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Dizziness is also one of those weird things for me at least that if I start thinking about being dizzy I kind of get slightly dizzy so could be a bit of that going on.  Could be worth check pulse oximeter if you have access to one just to be on the safe side.  

We do have one and the kids are fine in that respect. I asked Ds14 and he said he almost passed out when standing up, but his pulse ox showed 99 ox with a normal heartrate. I guess we'll see when we get Dd's test results.

[TCB]

2 hours ago, Meriwether said:

We do have one and the kids are fine in that respect. I asked Ds14 and he said he almost passed out when standing up, but his pulse ox showed 99 ox with a normal heartrate. I guess we'll see when we get Dd's test results.

I look after people later on in the process but a number of them have complained of dizziness so it may be a more common symptom than we know, at the moment.

[Ausmumof3]

SA (my state) just opened up to New Zealand.

one positive in Vic in someone who had already previously tested positive so may be just an unusually long shedding period (or the scary alternative is a reinfection)

2 new cases in NSW.

[RootAnn]

@Meriwether I know dizziness is on the symptom list for my state's covid testing quiz. It does seem strange for all of them to come down with it at the same time. I hope they all feel better soon!

[Pen]

 

Re aerosols — from a small study back from

April. But as prevalence of CV19 rises, more places like churches, offices, homes, dorms, etc., may increasingly have virus present more similar to what hospitals had in April.  Or going about daily life our ordinary clothing may have more .   

 

“In general, medical staff areas had higher concentrations of SARS-CoV-2 aerosols compared with patient areas in both hospitals during the first round of sampling (17–24 February 2020) at the peak of the COVID-19 outbreak (Table 1). For sampling sites at Renmin Hospital, the air circulation in medical staff areas is isolated by design from the air circulation in the patient rooms. By contrast, in Fangcang Hospital, the non-ventilated temporary PPAR was isolated from the patient hall, in which the aerosol concentration of SARS-CoV-2 was generally low. The second round of sampling of total suspended particles in medical staff areas of Fangcang Hospital was conducted after the number of patients reduced from more than 200 to less than 100 per zone and the implementation of more rigorous and thorough sanitization measures, including more frequent spraying of chlorinated disinfectant on the floor of patient areas, additional disinfection using 3% hydrogen peroxide in the PPAR at least once a week, thoroughly spraying alcohol disinfectant on the protective apparel before taking it off and an increased operation time of indoor air purifiers. The samples from this second round showed all undetectable results (Table 1), confirming the importance of sanitization in reducing the amount of airborne SARS-CoV-2 in high-risk areas.

SARS-CoV-2 aerosols were mainly found to include two size ranges, one in the submicrometre region (d_p between 0.25 and 1.0 μm) and the other in supermicrometre region (d_p > 2.5 μm). Aerosols in the submicrometre region were predominantly found in PPARs in zones B and C of Fangcang Hospital (Fig. 1a, b) with peak concentrations of 40 and 9 copies m⁻³ in the 0.25–0.5 μm and 0.5–1.0 μm range, respectively. By contrast, aerosols in the supermicrometre region were mainly observed in the PPAR of zone C of Fangcang Hospital (Fig. 1b) with concentrations of 7 copies m⁻³. The medical staff’s office (Fig. 1c) had more virus-laden aerosols in the supermicrometre size range, but the size distribution is flatter compared with the range in other areas. Reports on the resuspension of microorganisms from the floor, clothing and furniture have previously been noted to contribute to the generation of microbial aerosols in the built environment¹⁴. Therefore, we hypothesize that the source of the submicrometre peak is the resuspension of virus-laden aerosols from the surface of the protective apparel worn by medical staff while they are removing the equipment. The submicrometre virus-laden aerosols may originally come from the direct deposition of respiratory droplets or airborne SARS-CoV-2 from a patient onto the protective apparel as evidenced by the deposition samples (Table 1). The higher mobility owing to their smaller aerodynamic diameter facilitates the resuspension from the surface of protective apparel after gaining the initial velocity while the equipment is being removed. On the other hand, floor-deposited SARS-CoV-2 is possibly the source of supermicrometre virus-laden aerosols and was carried across different areas by medical staff. Furthermore, a recent study has experimentally demonstrated that SARS-CoV-2 could maintain its biological stability in aerosols and on different surfaces for hours to days¹⁵. “

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2271-3

[Ausmumof3]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2760QR?__twitter_impression=true
 

Lilly hires an outdoor advisor to help after FDA warning (they are one of the monoclonal antibody producers)

[ktgrok]

Dizzy can also just be from fluid in the ear from allergies/colds/etc. So hopefully just that. 

[Pen]

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/expert-partnership-to-explore-and-establish-human-challenge-studies-of-covid-19-in-the-uk

 

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/expert-partnership-to-explore-and-establish-human-challenge-studies-of-covid-19-in-the-uk

 

Am I right in thinking this is a pretty big deal because it wouldn’t normally get past ethics etc?

[Pen]

37 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Am I right in thinking this is a pretty big deal because it wouldn’t normally get past ethics etc?

 

I think so.  Not unique in history, but an ethics consideration. Even if people volunteer

it seems especially tricky if it were randomized with placebo