wuhan - coronavirus

[ElizabethB]

30 minutes ago, Pen said:

Vitamin D

It seems to me like Vitamin D has been raised here enough that by now anyone following this thread will have gotten that point.

But in case not, or in case someone here is interested in Vitamin D, but not following the other thread, there was a post by @ElizabethB on the Vitamin D CV19 thread linking an article based on extensive modeling that could be worth looking at. 

Title is to the effect that evidence exists for ***Causal*** relationship between higher Vitamin D levels (including via supplements) and better CV19 outcomes. 

Though the mechanism of *why* it would help was already well explained, I thought, in the slide show that I have linked several times upthread.  

I’ll try to add a link to other thread or the article direct later. 

 

Yes, I thought people reading this thread had either been convinced or not, and that people looking for more vitamin D information could look at the vitamin D thread.  But the latest study was interesting! Here is a direct link to it.  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.20087965v1

[Pen]

13 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

You can test positive for TB without the vaccine and not have TB ? 🤔. But you obviously don't have it as you would obviously know right ? I've had family members of my grandparents die of it and been told it is a wasting disease with a lot of coughing. I am however convinced you have TB antibodies though I am not sure how you got them without a vaccine. Exposure ? 

 

There is “latent tuberculosis” (without symptoms, which is a reason that some people are (or were) tested for it before starting certain types of work such as teaching.  And I think a TB test was done as part of required check up when I started university. 

It is possible to have TB without it manifesting in the usual fulminant lung infection way. 

For example there is a pelvic/uterine form of TB. 

 

Some of us Americans may also have had a vaccine for travel as children and no one remembers.

It is also possible that a mild case would get cleared by own immune system.

Or perhaps that antibiotics taken without knowing there was TB would be enough to clear a mild case. 

 

 

Quote

Do you think though that though you have a compromised immune system and difficult respiratory illnesses, the TB antibodies you have  somewhat lessened the impact of it each time. What I mean is, if you did have COVID it sort of mitigated you that you did not land in hospital vs the non-immunocompromised people who landed in hospital with severe symptoms without the anti-bodies you have ? 

 

That’s an interesting question.

 

Looking at data points I am inclined to think that BCG vaccine may be a correlation with Vitamin D in some parts of world and that it is the Vitamin D giving protection, not the BCG.  

The reason I say this, and with an India connection you might be in a good position to figure out more that would be helpful:  it looks like in some areas of world like India, Brazil  (Indonesia too maybe?) the vaccinations for the country may be the same, countrywide, , but people with more sun exposure from latitude or from more sun exposure via clothing or skin tones, seem to have better outcomes.   ETA  (Or conversely as in Brazil, known high levels of D insufficiency in population seem to correlate with worse CV19 outcomes despite BCG vaccination.)

 

(The other reason is that when I was peripherally  involved as a student intern in what seemed like very promising BCG research, it turned out that the BCG only was correlation not causation for the beneficial outcome being studied (cancer prophylaxis)—the actual causal substance may have been Vitamin D in that situation as well.  But I do admit to a perhaps unfairly jaded view of BCG as prophylaxis claims.) 

 

And I would think an actual past case of TB that gave antibodies would tend to make someone more susceptible to bad outcomes from CV19 due to weakening lungs or other tissues—not make for a better prognosis.  Or a latent case might have an added serious viral infection be its last straw as it were.

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pen

[EmseB]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/new-york-city-coronavirus-outbreak.html#click=https://t.co/WDzPUP2r91

--By the time the first case was detected in NY there were likely 10,000 undetected cases (that seems high but I don't know how the extrapolation models work)

--60-65% of cases in the US can be traced back to NY.

-- The Europe travel ban came too late

--NY's stay at home orders were way too late

[Arcadia]

49 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Right but this is with shelter in place for the last however many weeks. It sort of looks like we are killing the very people we're trying to protect. Or at least whatever we're doing isn't working for some reason.

The nursing home (not US) my late uncle was at has nurses quarters for nurses without families and trainee nurses to live in. So basically the trainee nurses stay in kind of like a college dorm situation. When my mom was a student nurse, nurses quarters were common in my country of origin.

e.g. https://www.centricgc.com/commercial/historic-rehabilitation/presidio-building-1808-nurses-quarters

“The Nurses Quarters is located within the Presidio of San Francisco along the park’s Pacific coast just a short walk from the Golden Gate Bridge. This historic (circa 1932) Georgian Revival-style former dormitory was built to house 60 nurses working in the adjacent hospital which treated ailing mariners from around the world. “

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

This is my thinking too. We have seen the anecdotal reports of damage to a variety of body systems. Much like any other possible pre-existing condition, until they know the mental and physical consequences of this, they’re not putting them on the payroll.

If only they cared as much about the people already on the payroll...

[Storygirl]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Right but this is with shelter in place for the last however many weeks. It sort of looks like we are killing the very people we're trying to protect. Or at least whatever we're doing isn't working for some reason.

Although nursing home residents can't leave, and visitors can't come in, the staff comes in and out. And when they are out, they are living regular lives, going to the store, living with their family members, etc. Any screening they go through upon their return for their next shift won't detect if they have picked up the virus but are asymptomatic. Because people in nursing homes require a high degree of hands-on care, there isn't a way for the staff to social distance from the residents. And so staff inadvertently brings it in. Then it spreads, because staff goes from patient to patient all day long. I am positive that nursing homes do not have enough PPE for the staff to change out all of their protective gear every time they touch or come into near proximity to a patient.

My mom, for example, is wheelchair bound and needs to be spoon fed. Moving her from bed to wheelchair and back requires two staff members. Any time that happens, those three people --- the two staff members and my mom -- are touching each other and/or in very close proximity. The same for when she needs to be cleaned and have her clothes changed. Residents can't be spoon fed without being close to a staff member. I can guarantee that the nurses' aides don't have enough PPE to swap out their gowns and masks every time they touch one patient or their wheelchair, even if they are washing hands and changing gloves each time (which should be protocol).

There is not a way that I can see to prevent Covid from spreading, until nursing homes can administer an instant and accurate Covid test on everyone, every time they arrive.

There are patients and staff members who have been diagnosed with Covid in my mom's nursing home. The staff can't come back until they are cleared, of course. Which means the remaining staff may have to interact with more patients than usual. The patients who tested positive were moved to one area, together, and the staff members that work with them are not supposed to work with any other patients, in order to keep it contained.

However, the only tested all of the patients ONCE. How many of them may have had a false negative test and were not isolated? No way to tell. They now will only test people who have symptoms, because they can't retest everyone constantly. So there is no way for the to really tell if some of the patients are asymptomatic. And it could be possible for some of the patients to acquire symptoms but not be able to tell the caregivers how they feel, so the symptoms can go unrecognized until they suddenly become very ill. During any window of time when one patient is sick but no one knows, the virus can be passing from person to person with no one aware.

I could probably go on. But there are so many reasons that the virus might spread especially quickly in a congregant living situation. And when those who are exposed are elderly who are in poor health, the odds of their bodies being able to fight it off are poor. The virus is spreading in a terrible way through our state's prison system as well, and some have died. But not as many as in the nursing homes, because prisoners overall are younger and generally healthier. Most of the prisoners are asymptomatic. And I don't mean "most who are positive are asymptomatic." I mean that our state has tested all residents of a few prisons and have found that the vast majority of those prisoners are positive, but most aren't sick. But at least the prisoners can feed themselves, take care of their own hygiene, etc. which is not the case in nursing homes.

I'm sure I'm not describing anything that anyone on this thread is not aware of. I think the only way to stop the spread in nursing homes is to have all staff and every resident tested every day. And I think that's not going to happen.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Storygirl

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

If only they cared as much about the people already on the payroll...

Yeah, DH and I have had some interesting discussions of late. He’s been told his relief has to quarantine for 14 days before reporting but they have Civilian workers on and off the ship everyday because, yeah...

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yeah, DH and I have had some interesting discussions of late. He’s been told his relief has to quarantine for 14 days before reporting but they have Civilian workers on and off the ship everyday because, yeah...

There was a recent article where Esper was quoted as saying the safest place to be during a pandemic is on a ship. I just laughed and laughed until I cried.

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

There was a recent article where Esper was quoted as saying the safest place to be during a pandemic is on a ship. I just laughed and laughed until I cried.

Until it’s not.

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, brehon said:

I grew up in Houston in the 70s-80s. No cooling centers then, either. Well, except for the public pools and various stores. My family also did not use AC often due to cost. 

That's when I was there (aldine school district) 1977-1987

[JennyD]

14 minutes ago, EmseB said:

There was a recent article where Esper was quoted as saying the safest place to be during a pandemic is on a ship. I just laughed and laughed until I cried.

 

Not the same context, but the CEO of Southwest Airlines said that the other day an airplane is "as safe an environment that you're going to find." 

[TCB]

Is there, amongst the myriad corona virus threads, a conspiracy theory support group lol? I need one. The nice, normally kind and fairly rational people around me are going crazy with them at the moment. 

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

 

 

Leprosy is a bacterial infection. 

[Pen]

56 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

TB is bacterial too.

 

Yes!

Right!

Exactly!

 

SARS-CoV-2 is not.

 

(Snip) ETA—  I know you want to feel that you and at least part of your family are immune to CV19 (or at least would be protected from a case needing hospitalization) because of getting BCG vaccine, but I don’t think there’s actually much basis for that belief right now.   Sadly.   Though, who knows🤷‍♀️ Maybe it will turn out to be so.  Btw, I don’t think BCG giving protection from Leprosy is anecdotal. It think it is quite well established.  I just don’t think it is a reason to think that a bacteria based vaccine that gives some protection from two bacterial based illnesses is going to work for protection from a viral based illness. 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Yes!

Right!

Exactly!

 

SARS-CoV-2 is not.

 

Do you have any proof of any virus similar to SARS-CoV-2 that BCG vaccine is effective for?

 

 

Or never mind proof.

how about persuasive reason to think it is effective against a similar virus.

 

(Bacillus Calmette-Guerin is also bacterial based.) 

[melmichigan]

4 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

I find it very concerning, in the same vein as “watch what they do, not what they say”.  Is it due to the risk of permanent damage to the lungs and heart?  Is it the risk of the virus reactivating?  

"However, given the limited research on COVID-19, there are likely a few factors that military medical professionals are trying to hash out when it comes to recruiting survivors: Whether respiratory damage from the virus is long-lasting or permanent, and whether that can be assessed; the likelihood of recurring flare-ups, even if someone has had two consecutive negative tests; and the possibility that one bout of COVID-19 might not provide full immunity for the future, and could potentially leave someone at a higher risk to contract it again, perhaps with worse complications."  from Military Times.

[Pen]

India clothes?

 

I tried to find images of people in India as ordinary life from 2019 and to me it looks like a lot of exposed skin—shorts and t-shirts, pants and t-shirts...   Is this inaccurate?

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/8Vo74BJ11tU64kvm9

[Pen]

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/does-bcg-vaccination-protect-against-acute-respiratory-infections-and-covid-19-a-rapid-review-of-current-evidence/

 

@Dreamergal  you should like the article above.  It does suggest improved outcomes related to influenza A— which is of course a virus...

but caution needed - Some studies are underway currently—giving BCG vaccine to health care workers.  Eventually that should give more information. 

 

Quote - bolds and underline added: 

Seven out of the 9 studies showed significant correlation between BCG vaccination and COVID-19 frequency of cases and/or mortality, where countries with universal BCG vaccination policies showed fewer cases and/or deaths [24–30, 32]. Four studies tested these effects after adjusting for other confounding factors [27,29–31]. The significant correlation was maintained by Berg, et al after controlling for median age, GDP per capita, population density and size, geographic region, net migration rate, and other factors [30], and by Shet, et al after adjusting for country income status, age structure of population (>65 years), and timing of the epidemic [27]. Hensel, et alshowed that the most significant confounding factor is COVID-19 testing rate (tests per 1 M inhabitants), where countries with high testing rates (>2,500 test/M), no longer showed statistically significant association between BCG policy and COVID-19 incidence and deaths [29]. Whereas, Kirov and Szigeti, et alshowed no correlation between BCG vaccination policy and COVID-19 infections [31,33].

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pen

[Arcadia]

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

India clothes?

 

I tried to find images of people in India as ordinary life from 2019 and to me it looks like a lot of exposed skin—shorts and t-shirts, pants and t-shirts...   Is this inaccurate?

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/8Vo74BJ11tU64kvm9

There isn’t a standardized clothing for India or Asian Indians anywhere. 

My friend who is a Punjabi wears something like this https://m.indiamart.com/proddetail/ladies-salwar-suits-8664856573.html

The Punjabi attire is quite common here, actually more common than the sari. 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

There isn’t a standardized clothing for India or Asian Indians anywhere. 

My friend who is a Punjabi wears something like this https://m.indiamart.com/proddetail/ladies-salwar-suits-8664856573.html

The Punjabi attire is quite common here, actually more common than the sari. 

 

That’s beautiful!

I don’t usually wear much beyond jeans, but I’d love something like that! Though I May be too old for such a look, plus issue of cultural appropriation.  

[ElizabethB]

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 1980 was a super hot summer for Houston, well all of TX. Lots of old people died. I remember they asked others to volunteer to take elderly to libraries or malls to cool off. Many groups, companies, and well known locals were donating thousands of air conditioners to the elderly who lived in the downtown wards. 

We never had central air, but always had the air conditioners in the windows. I grew up in the Spring Branch area.

 

Window air conditioners and help with electric bills as needed might be a better, safer option this year instead of cooling centers.

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Or never mind proof.

how about persuasive reason to think it is effective against a similar virus.

 

(Bacillus Calmette-Guerin is also bacterial based.) 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31025-4/fulltext

Seems like there's evidence, not that BCG prevents it but may lessen severity of covid 19.  There's enough evidence that if the BCG vaccine was available in the US, I'd have myself and my family vaccinated.  We'd still practice social distancing and mask, take vitamin D, etc, but there seems to be SOME evidence.  

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 1980 was a super hot summer for Houston, well all of TX. Lots of old people died. I remember they asked others to volunteer to take elderly to libraries or malls to cool off. Many groups, companies, and well known locals were donating thousands of air conditioners to the elderly who lived in the downtown wards. 

We never had central air, but always had the air conditioners in the windows. I grew up in the Spring Branch area.

 

I remember the Spring Library! I did research there.

 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31025-4/fulltext

Seems like there's evidence, not that BCG prevents it but may lessen severity of covid 19.  There's enough evidence that if the BCG vaccine was available in the US, I'd have myself and my family vaccinated.  We'd still practice social distancing and mask, take vitamin D, etc, but there seems to be SOME evidence.  

@Ausmumof3https://www.mcri.edu.au/news/10m-grant-enables-mcris-bcg-vaccine-trial-expand-internationally

“Tuesday, May 5, 2020 

An A$10 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation will allow the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute’s (MCRI) clinical trial of the BCG vaccine against COVID-19 to extend to 10,000 healthcare workers across Australia, Spain and The Netherlands. 

The grant will allow the MCRI team to expand the BRACE trial from the original target of 4000 healthcare workers.

In The Netherlands and Spain, the Radboud University Medical Center and UMC Utrecht will begin enrolling 4000 healthcare workers across 13 sites in the coming weeks.

The BRACE trial, which commenced on March 27, has already enrolled more than 2500 workers in hospitals across Australia.

The multi-centre randomised controlled trial, which started at The Royal Children’s Hospital and is being run out of the Melbourne Children’s Trials Centre will see half of healthcare workers given the BCG vaccine to test whether it can protect those exposed to SARS-CoV-2 from developing severe symptoms by boosting their ‘frontline’ immunity.

BCG was originally developed against tuberculosis, and is still given to over 130 million babies worldwide each year for that purpose. The BRACE trial builds on previous research which showed that BCG can provide some protection against respiratory viral infections and a study in which BCG reduced virus levels and enhanced immunity to a virus with a structure of a similar type to SARS-CoV-2.

Professor Nigel Curtis, who leads the BRACE trial, thanked the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for generously supporting this research effort. Professor Curtis is a clinician-scientist who heads MCRI’s Infectious“

[vonfirmath]

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Not at all, if it is sold on Amazon US it is mainstream and not cultural appropriation because I have faith that they would not want a backlash and done the research on what is appropriate 😁

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kurtis+for+women&crid=3BNWXR37IG13O&sprefix=kurti%2Caps%2C189&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_5

It's called a Kurti. Please wear it in good health over jeans. I give gifts of them all the time and people love it here. My neighborhood has hispanic, african american, caucasian and asian other than Indian. I get invites all the time from people, food. So when I go back, I get them as gifts or people give me money to buy them.

If anyone says anything, tell them if it is good enough for Kate Middleton and Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, it is good enough for you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kate+middleton+salwar&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=flpl4EJhmWzBtM%3A%2C7DzEew7cQlplwM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSDWGLx80e1LgTpUh6kxoEcs0j4nw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiE993h4aLpAhWona0KHYfgCTMQ_h0wAXoECAwQBA&biw=1366&bih=655

 

I love that. Wonder if they sell it in my size.

 

[Guest]

And, apparently our center will not be reopening in phase 1. The city does not want to risk indoor activities yet. 

 

I pity the building administrator. Poor guy just moved into the job in Jan, the long time assistant retired in Feb (and was not replaced due to budget cuts) and he has had to deal with all of this. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/mcdonalds-employees-shot-angry-customer-told-dining-room/story?id=70553451
 

haven’t followed the thread yet so apologies if it’s already been posted but more Covid restriction related violence 

[Pen]

39 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3https://www.mcri.edu.au/news/10m-grant-enables-mcris-bcg-vaccine-trial-expand-internationally

“Tuesday, May 5, 2020 

An A$10 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation will allow the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute’s (MCRI) clinical trial of the BCG vaccine against COVID-19 to extend to 10,000 healthcare workers across Australia, Spain and The Netherlands. 

The grant will allow the MCRI team to expand the BRACE trial from the original target of 4000 healthcare workers.

In The Netherlands and Spain, the Radboud University Medical Center and UMC Utrecht will begin enrolling 4000 healthcare workers across 13 sites in the coming weeks.

The BRACE trial, which commenced on March 27, has already enrolled more than 2500 workers in hospitals across Australia.

The multi-centre randomised controlled trial, which started at The Royal Children’s Hospital and is being run out of the Melbourne Children’s Trials Centre will see half of healthcare workers given the BCG vaccine to test whether it can protect those exposed to SARS-CoV-2 from developing severe symptoms by boosting their ‘frontline’ immunity.

BCG was originally developed against tuberculosis, and is still given to over 130 million babies worldwide each year for that purpose. The BRACE trial builds on previous research which showed that BCG can provide some protection against respiratory viral infections and a study in which BCG reduced virus levels and enhanced immunity to a virus with a structure of a similar type to SARS-CoV-2.

Professor Nigel Curtis, who leads the BRACE trial, thanked the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for generously supporting this research effort. Professor Curtis is a clinician-scientist who heads MCRI’s Infectious“

 

I’m glad this and other tests of it are being done.

I wish most trials would take place in locations like Spain (which looks like it is a trial location), New York City, northern Italy, where there seem to be significant numbers of medical workers getting sick. 

Like 33 1/3 % physicians at Elmhurst in Queens getting BCG, 33 1/3 % some other thing, 33 1/3 controls...

 

Russia uses BCG and was looking good for awhile. But not looking as good now. 

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

One article I read said that it’s because they aren’t sure what the long term ramifications of the virus will be.  

I wondered if it was also because of the case in China? Where they autopsied a woman who tested negative but then died and found that while she didn’t have any virus in her upper airways so she tested negative it was still in her lungs?  They are worried maybe about long term infection risks.

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Watching Cuomo's update today... apparently, the percent of healthcare workers who have antibodies for COVID is lower than the percentage of the general population in NYC that has antibodies for COVID! Fascinating, and I guess evidence that PPE works? The percentage of police that were positive was less than the overage rate, too.

It also does make me wonder whether the estimates for NYC in general are too high and whether we're STILL oversampling the people who had been sick and wanted to know if they'd had the virus. 

It may also be that people that deal with infection risk regularly get better and training and have better habits with regards to avoiding infections, even if they don’t have PPE.

[Pen]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Oh, Russian numbers are worthless. Ignore them. 

 

Im thinking if BCG were extremely protective, 3 Russian medical workers would not have needed to “fall” out of windows. 

[Pen]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

It may also be that people that deal with infection risk regularly get better and training and have better habits with regards to avoiding infections, even if they don’t have PPE.

 

Iirc, There’s also an attrition rate out of direct patient care medical fields usually fairly early in career of medical workers who have low immunity and get repeatedly sick. 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, TCB said:

Is there, amongst the myriad corona virus threads, a conspiracy theory support group lol? I need one. The nice, normally kind and fairly rational people around me are going crazy with them at the moment. 

Looks like there is a new one spreading the plandemic movie.  This time I’m not even watching it’s not good for my health!

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think there's also evidence that there's damage to other parts of the body with COVID, like the strokes they were seeing, and the kidney damage... we might not be seeing all that happens when someone gets sick. 

Yes.  But you would assume the military would be able to do medical screenings to rule that out which is why I’m back to it being something to do with infectiousness.   It seems like given that it’s likely to go right through eventually unless there’s a different plan ruling out due to Covid infection seems like it will rule out a lot of people.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3https://www.mcri.edu.au/news/10m-grant-enables-mcris-bcg-vaccine-trial-expand-internationally

“Tuesday, May 5, 2020 

An A$10 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation will allow the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute’s (MCRI) clinical trial of the BCG vaccine against COVID-19 to extend to 10,000 healthcare workers across Australia, Spain and The Netherlands. 

The grant will allow the MCRI team to expand the BRACE trial from the original target of 4000 healthcare workers.

In The Netherlands and Spain, the Radboud University Medical Center and UMC Utrecht will begin enrolling 4000 healthcare workers across 13 sites in the coming weeks.

The BRACE trial, which commenced on March 27, has already enrolled more than 2500 workers in hospitals across Australia.

The multi-centre randomised controlled trial, which started at The Royal Children’s Hospital and is being run out of the Melbourne Children’s Trials Centre will see half of healthcare workers given the BCG vaccine to test whether it can protect those exposed to SARS-CoV-2 from developing severe symptoms by boosting their ‘frontline’ immunity.

BCG was originally developed against tuberculosis, and is still given to over 130 million babies worldwide each year for that purpose. The BRACE trial builds on previous research which showed that BCG can provide some protection against respiratory viral infections and a study in which BCG reduced virus levels and enhanced immunity to a virus with a structure of a similar type to SARS-CoV-2.

Professor Nigel Curtis, who leads the BRACE trial, thanked the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for generously supporting this research effort. Professor Curtis is a clinician-scientist who heads MCRI’s Infectious“

I think my state are also doing a trial but separate to this 

[Pen]

17 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Why is that have anything to do with BCG ? Who knows what they had to undergo ? It is more a mental health issue or even silencing than anything to do with BCG.

This happened in India because of quarantine. Does not mean quarantine or lockdown is bad. The effects cause mental health issues, that is known. So too probably in Russia.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/covid-19-tn-man-in-home-quarantine-runs-out-naked-bites-old-woman-to-death/articleshow/74858826.cms

ETA : In cases like the Russian doctors death I immediately draw a parallel to the Chinese whistleblower doctor who died because of COVID. He was demonized now considered a hero. In dictator societies whistleblowers are not welcome, even in America they are not very welcome.

 

It has indirectly to do with BCG.  

Medical workers “falling” out of windows is highly unusual.

It is thought to relate to CV19 cases in Russia.

Russia has used BCG vaccination.

If BCG vaccine protects against CV19, Russia should have very little CV19, and very little reason for health care workers to be “falling” out of windows.

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t know if anyone remembers that I posted that the office of the Australian medical association had been damaged in an arson attack.  It was believed to probably be random (they lit the bins up which then travelled to the aircon). 
 

well a doctors office close by has now had an arson attack making it more likely its not random.

[YaelAldrich]

42 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Im thinking if BCG were extremely protective, 3 Russian medical workers would not have needed to “fall” out of windows. 

Husband spoke today to a American grad student doing a Fulbright in Russia.  She has absolutely no knowledge of the "accidents".

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

Husband spoke today to a American grad student doing a Fulbright in Russia.  She has absolutely no knowledge of the "accidents".

Meaning?

when I was last in that part of world it was hard to get good news - likely still is

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-doctors-in-russia-have-fallen-out-of-hospital-windows-11588887817

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pen

[ElizabethB]

30 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Honestly India too because there is a history of painting a rosy picture to make the government look good. Then again, they are terrible with data gathering, collating especially with granular data. But I trust reports of what they are doing because I get it from family not the media. 😁. They really do the lockdown and beat people if they break it, scare people and do a really good social campaign of educating in all local languages. 

There were a lot of countries not included in my vitamin D graph because their vitamin D studies were poor and/or I didn't trust their Covid numbers...I'm not going to include Iran's vitamin D numbers and Covid numbers, for example, even though their vitamin D study seemed fine.  Russia didn't make the list, either.  I didn't realize India might have bad Covid numbers but they didn't have a good vitamin D study so they were already eliminated.

[Arcadia]

Washington https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/the-great-potato-giveaway--us-farmers-hand-out-spuds-to-avoid-food-waste-12713430
 

“AUBURN, Wash.: When Tina Yates pulled her truck up to a mall in western Washington state on Thursday, workers waved her past hundreds of cars waiting to pick up free russet potatoes.

"You get a VIP pass!" Yates, a bus driver in her 50s, said the workers hollered, as she loaded 1,800 pounds (816 kg) of potatoes into her gray Chevy Silverado, bound for the Salvation Army, local food banks and homes throughout western Washington.

Giving away food is just one example of how people around the world are adjusting to the strain the coronavirus pandemic has put on supply chains, as restaurants, schools and hotels close. With unemployment soaring, demand from food banks is rising fast at the same time farmers have fewer outlets to sell their crops.

In Washington, the No. 2 U.S. potato growing state after Idaho, a billion pounds of russet potatoes, normally processed into french fries and hash browns, are sitting in warehouses that would typically be emptying ahead of the July harvest, the Washington State Potato Commision said.

Instead, the organization is handing out the surplus for free in brown sacks, 100,000 pounds at a time.

"Everyone in Washington would have to eat about 500 pounds of potatoes from now until the 4th of July to clear out that pipeline," said Brandy Tucker, the commission's director of marketing.

Around 90per cent of Washington potatoes are processed for food service, nearly half for international markets. Potato producers in Europe have also faced enormous surpluses.

The commission is planning more than a dozen donation events by the end of May. But even giving away potatoes comes with the cost of washing, bagging and shipping.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture is attempting to chip away at the mountain of produce unable to get to consumers. This week it said it would buy an additional US$470 million in food, including US$50 million in potatoes to give to food banks.

Farmers such as Adam Weber, a third generation grower at Weber Farms in Quincy, Washington, say it is better to give away potatoes than dump them.

"If the price is well below what it costs to grow them, do you just sit on them for a while and hope things turn around? Or just go from US$200 dollars down to US$30 (per ton). That's how drastic the price has changed," he said.

Weber said he will plant 1,000 fewer acres on his 6,500 acre farm this year because of lower demand from processing companies. Some canceled entire contracts, according to Tucker from the potato commission.

"They (potato growers) are going to be holding the bag," said Weber.”

 

[ElizabethB]

4 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Please do not eliminate India. They are doing very good things like masks, social distancing by force, lockdown, education etc. The numbers if you ask me are in the ball park. But I have a baggage of history where numbers are a bit fudged and also because they are not generally very good with stats. It is more of a caution as to not take it as absolute accuracy. I would always err on the side of more. 

I'm just talking about for my graph, which I already and and published, not in general.

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I will absolutely believe in BCG protecting CV19 than Russian doctors falling out of windows because of being devastated over the scale of death and not being able to do anything.

 

🤷‍♀️ I think it is thought that they were pushed. They had been critical of government handling of CV19.

 

 

[TCB]

59 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Looks like there is a new one spreading the plandemic movie.  This time I’m not even watching it’s not good for my health!

Yes this is the one that is making waves here at the moment. It is so full of glaring errors it is hard to believe people can take it seriously. I think people are so confused with all the conflicting information they are hearing that they grasp on to something that seems to provide some sort of explanation. How that explanation is better than what is really happening I can not understand. All the usual suspects are on it. I think there is a full length video and a trailer and I may have seen the trailer - it's about 25 minutes long I think. Absolutely no attempt is made to provide any solid evidence. The very first thing she says took me about 15 seconds on google to disprove.

[Pen]

51 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think my state are also doing a trial but separate to this 

 

Does your state (or anywhere in Australia) have a problem with medical workers contracting SARS2 in numbers high enough to get statistically significant evidence that getting a BCG vaccination helps? 

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Does your state (or anywhere in Australia) have a problem with medical workers contracting SARS2 in numbers high enough to get statistically significant evidence that getting a BCG vaccination helps? 

Nope.  We currently have two active cases and 1 icu nurse contracted it.  However they started the trial when things looked like going the other way I think.

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Dreamergal said:

Why is that have anything to do with BCG ? Who knows what they had to undergo ? It is more a mental health issue or even silencing than anything to do with BCG.

This happened in India because of quarantine. Does not mean quarantine or lockdown is bad. The effects cause mental health issues, that is known. So too probably in Russia.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/covid-19-tn-man-in-home-quarantine-runs-out-naked-bites-old-woman-to-death/articleshow/74858826.cms

ETA : In cases like the Russian doctors death I immediately draw a parallel to the Chinese whistleblower doctor who died because of COVID. He was demonized now considered a hero. In dictator societies whistleblowers are not welcome, even in America they are not very welcome.

Oh, I'm sure this wasn't a mental health issue.  I think this was a "tragic accident" to silence them.  I'm certain they displeased the government somehow.

[Ausmumof3]

22 minutes ago, TCB said:

Yes this is the one that is making waves here at the moment. It is so full of glaring errors it is hard to believe people can take it seriously. I think people are so confused with all the conflicting information they are hearing that they grasp on to something that seems to provide some sort of explanation. How that explanation is better than what is really happening I can not understand. All the usual suspects are on it. I think there is a full length video and a trailer and I may have seen the trailer - it's about 25 minutes long I think. Absolutely no attempt is made to provide any solid evidence. The very first thing she says took me about 15 seconds on google to disprove.

There’s a lot of confirmation bias going on I think.

[Ausmumof3]

41 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Washington https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/the-great-potato-giveaway--us-farmers-hand-out-spuds-to-avoid-food-waste-12713430
 

“AUBURN, Wash.: When Tina Yates pulled her truck up to a mall in western Washington state on Thursday, workers waved her past hundreds of cars waiting to pick up free russet potatoes.

"You get a VIP pass!" Yates, a bus driver in her 50s, said the workers hollered, as she loaded 1,800 pounds (816 kg) of potatoes into her gray Chevy Silverado, bound for the Salvation Army, local food banks and homes throughout western Washington.

Giving away food is just one example of how people around the world are adjusting to the strain the coronavirus pandemic has put on supply chains, as restaurants, schools and hotels close. With unemployment soaring, demand from food banks is rising fast at the same time farmers have fewer outlets to sell their crops.

In Washington, the No. 2 U.S. potato growing state after Idaho, a billion pounds of russet potatoes, normally processed into french fries and hash browns, are sitting in warehouses that would typically be emptying ahead of the July harvest, the Washington State Potato Commision said.

Instead, the organization is handing out the surplus for free in brown sacks, 100,000 pounds at a time.

"Everyone in Washington would have to eat about 500 pounds of potatoes from now until the 4th of July to clear out that pipeline," said Brandy Tucker, the commission's director of marketing.

Around 90per cent of Washington potatoes are processed for food service, nearly half for international markets. Potato producers in Europe have also faced enormous surpluses.

The commission is planning more than a dozen donation events by the end of May. But even giving away potatoes comes with the cost of washing, bagging and shipping.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture is attempting to chip away at the mountain of produce unable to get to consumers. This week it said it would buy an additional US$470 million in food, including US$50 million in potatoes to give to food banks.

Farmers such as Adam Weber, a third generation grower at Weber Farms in Quincy, Washington, say it is better to give away potatoes than dump them.

"If the price is well below what it costs to grow them, do you just sit on them for a while and hope things turn around? Or just go from US$200 dollars down to US$30 (per ton). That's how drastic the price has changed," he said.

Weber said he will plant 1,000 fewer acres on his 6,500 acre farm this year because of lower demand from processing companies. Some canceled entire contracts, according to Tucker from the potato commission.

"They (potato growers) are going to be holding the bag," said Weber.”

 

The concern is that with less income and demand potato growers are going to plant less and if next year is not a good year there will be shortages.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Terabith]

@Pen, nobody has said BCG prevents anyone from contracting covid.  There have been some studies that it may reduce the likelihood of contracting infection, but the main argument is that it seems to reduce the rate of hospitalization/ death.  Not to zero, but one article (I can't remember where; it was about a month back) said by about a factor of 10.