wuhan - coronavirus

[BeachGal]

@Spryte @Plum

In some cases the olfactory nerve can be regenerated by sniffing a number of different smells at intervals throughout the day for a period of time.

https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2017/02/09/unable-to-smell-one-stanford-researcher-is-working-to-improve-therapies/

Quote

The treatment really depends on the reason for loss, and may include surgery or medications. For those who lose the ability to smell after trauma, post-viral infection or when we don't know why it happened, olfactory training can be used, which is a very simple protocol that patients can do at home. The patients smell several essentials oils in a structured way twice a day, every day, over a long period of time. The oils -- rose, eucalyptus, clove and lemon -- stimulate different types of olfactory receptor cells in the nose. Although it does not help everyone, it has been shown to be effective in 30 to 50 percent of patients.

 

A good time to break out those essential oils!

[Pen]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is true of most public transport systems.  *Don't read while eating*  The buses here were previously only deep cleaned every 45 days.  I think the trains were similarly really bad.  With the new "stepped up protocols" high touch surfaces were being wiped down daily.  Considering how many people use the services in a given day, there's no way that's sanitary.  I always think of Sheldon and his "bus pants" (Big Bang Theory). 

 

When I lived in NYC, and particularly when in high school before an outbreak of TB, we knew it was all filthy (public transit, elevators, banisters, surfaces, you name it) and that we were often eating with out having washed hands, etc., etc.  

  But without a wholly novel virus we operated on the theory (apparently fine in practice), that our immune systems could handle it, and that constant exposures to all manner of microbes probably kept them functioning well. 

[SKL]

I have a question.  If a person has immunity from Covid19 because of some previous situation - an exposure to something similar, or a vax that happens to protect against Covid19, or whatever - then what would be the likely result should they be screened for Covid19 antibodies?

[Ausmumof3]

15 hours ago, Arcadia said:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/researcher-on-verge-of-making-very-significant-virus-findings-shot-to-death/2285190/

“A medical researcher said to be on the "verge of making very significant" coronavirus findings was found shot to death over the weekend in Pennsylvania, officials said.

Bing Liu, 37, a researcher at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, was found dead Saturday inside a home in Ross Township, north of Pittsburgh, the Allegheny County medical examiner said.

He had been shot in the head and the neck, the agency said. His death remains under investigation at this time.

"Bing was on the verge of making very significant findings toward understanding the cellular mechanisms that underlie SARS-CoV-2 infection and the cellular basis of the following complications," the school said. "We will make an effort to complete what he started in an effort to pay homage to his scientific excellence."”

That’s terrible!

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, dmmetler said:

My center is reopening next week for planned classes. They sent some photos of appropriate distancing set ups. I'm staying online, since I can't teach piano 6 feet from the kids, but I thought ya'll might find it interesting

Wow that looks kind of lonely 

[BeachGal]

@SKL Most likely, they would test for antibodies and find them. (I cannot easily post quotes from posters but here is a brief explanation of what happens after an infection.)

https://askabiologist.asu.edu/memory-b-cell
 

Quote

 

A Memory cell never forgets

Toward the end of each battle to stop an infection, some T-cells and B-cells turn into Memory T-cells and Memory B-cells. As you would expect from their names, these cells remember the virus or bacteria they just fought. These cells live in the body for a long time, even after all the viruses from the first infection have been destroyed. They stay in the ready-mode to quickly recognize and attack any returning viruses or bacteria. 

Quickly making lots of antibodies can stop an infection in its tracks.  The first time your body fights a virus, it can take up to 15 days to make enough antibodies to get rid of it. With the help of Memory B-cells, the second time your body sees that virus, it can do the same in thing 5 days. It also makes 100 times more antibodies than it did the first time. The faster your body makes antibodies, the quicker the virus can be destroyed. With the help of Memory B-cells, you might get rid of it before you even feel sick. This is called gaining immunity.

 

 

I'm not sure how or if memory B cells can be detected, though. Antibodies can be detected so long as they're there.

With Covid from what I've read and the little I've understood, some of the younger and healthier people are able to get rid of the infection with their innate immune system. Older and less healthy people deal with it using their adapted immune system which is when many antibodies are made. I'm not sure if the innate immune system also creates the memory cells. I'm curious to know what happens if anyone wants to explain it.

Edited May 6, 2020 by BeachGal

[Ausmumof3]

10 hours ago, Joker said:

This is what happened when I lost mine with the flu (still don’t have it back 6 years later). For me, Chick fil A is the worst. According to my ENT it’s way more common with flu and severe colds than people realize but I guess with this virus it’s getting a lot at attention. I always just say I lost my taste and smell but it’s really that I lost what it used to be and it’s been replaced by something not good. Although there are only two foods that still taste normal to me so not as many as your friend. 

I think one reason it’s getting more attention is because for some reason it is the only early symptom some people have which gives us a clue as to spread . The most recent case here was someone who had left after the two week quarantine and didn’t get sick till a week or two later.  They had however lost their sense of taste at the end of the quarantine but not identified that as a symptom.  So they’re pushing the message quite hard to make sure we don’t miss those kind of cases.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Wow that looks 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Wow that looks kind of lonely 

I think it would be. And I don't know how many of the classes are even viable under these conditions. Or cost effective for the instructor. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1200246?__twitter_impression=true
 

oops 😬 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/2-utah-county-businesses-told-staff-to-ignore-covid-19-guidelines-resulting-in-68-positive/article_d8426991-a693-5879-9d88-f9e094aef5b5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

in Utah two businesses told staff to ignore quarantine guidelines after contact with a positive case.  Now they have 68 cases between them.

[EmseB]

I thought this was interesting if you like learning about modeling and such. I'm in the middle but wanted to link before I lost the tab.

http://bostonreview.net/science-nature/jonathan-fuller-models-v-evidence

[EmseB]

Another tab I have open re: the more contagious mutation theory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/health/coronavirus-mutation-transmission.html#click=https://t.co/XooTTn6vAt

[Pen]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

I have a question.  If a person has immunity from Covid19 because of some previous situation - an exposure to something similar, or a vax that happens to protect against Covid19, or whatever - then what would be the likely result should they be screened for Covid19 antibodies?

 

IF a prior vaccine with / for a dissimilar organism (BCG — Bacillus Calmette Guerin is a good example of one where this is possibly a bit helpful ) happens to help give protection to CV19, but the person has not had a virus similar to CV19, I would expect a negative test for CV19 antibodies.

If a person had had, and had survived, a prior similar coronavirus (such as SARS1) and if that did give immunity to SARS2, then unless the antibody test is specific enough to distinguish SARS1 and SARS2, the person would probably test positive. 

Also, unless the antibody test is specific enough to distinguish between coronaviruses, there is a chance that the antibody test would be a false positive based on a coronavirus cold infection, but with out the person having immunity to SARS2.  Considering how many people have had a cold and that many cold are from coronavirus,  this is a considerable problem for tests to be made that are specific enough to distinguish. 

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/2-utah-county-businesses-told-staff-to-ignore-covid-19-guidelines-resulting-in-68-positive/article_d8426991-a693-5879-9d88-f9e094aef5b5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

in Utah two businesses told staff to ignore quarantine guidelines after contact with a positive case.  Now they have 68 cases between them.

I'm surprised they aren't releasing the names of the businesses.  I wonder if that means they aren't the type of places that the general public would visit.  Otherwise I would think they'd want to warn people if they may have visited them.

[ElizabethB]

5 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I'm surprised they aren't releasing the names of the businesses.  I wonder if that means they aren't the type of places that the general public would visit.  Otherwise I would think they'd want to warn people if they may have visited them.

The information was found through contact tracing, which is all confidential and cannot be released, they don't release names of individuals or business that come up in contacting tracing interviews.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Dreamergal said:

I've been wondering about this too. I don't think I will test positive for COVID antibodies, I will most probably test positive for the TB antibodies which should allegedly increase immunity for a host of respiratory diseases. But it has been close to 18 years since I tested, I am not quite sure how long those antibodies last though I've been told I will always test positive for TB. 

But gut feeling and common sense based on the number of deaths and cases in India especially given the population, the density and well you've been to India right, the not so great cleanliness. India has people spitting on the road all the time (sorry to gross people out) has to do something with the BCG vaccine I think. 

Government in India is very good in vaccination, they will go to remote places. They partner with WHO, Bill Gates foundation to do so.  Even tribal people who have communication with the outside world are vaccinated. The only ones who are not are those who live in remote islands which the government forbids people to go,  sort of isolate them to protect their way of life anthropologically and from diseases. 

The last time a pandemic happened in India was during the Spanish Flu. I have never heard of it in history class, but looked up the statistics. 12-17 million died (around 5% of the population then). The British were colonizing India then and obviously no vaccine. But the fact that the death rate has not been horrendous or even staggering, the numbers are relatively small compared to the population and the total lockdown I think is absolutely something to do with the BCG vaccine though I do not have evidence to prove it, more of just a theory waiting to be proven. 

The antibody tests are (in theory) supposed to be designed to be specifically sensitive to this coronavirus, not other coronaviruses or other viruses in general. 

Dreamergal, I have tested positive for TB for over 30 years.  I may or may not have had the BCG vaccine.  I know that my siblings had it though my mom thinks that I didn't.  But I have immune problems for years and have had some very difficult respiratory illnesses and might have had COVID 19 in Feb. and March (unconfirmed but had a lot of symptoms but not enough to meet the threshhold for the limited testing available. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Another tab I have open re: the more contagious mutation theory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/health/coronavirus-mutation-transmission.html#click=https://t.co/XooTTn6vAt

 

I find the Times reporter’s use of the word “claimed” as to Los Alamos National Lab study findings versus the idea that “experts” say otherwise rather bizarre frankly.  The Los Alamos study may be wrong, that’s the way science operates.  But to the best of my knowledge, the Los Alamos National Lab scientists are experts in their own right. 

I would say that the Los Alamos team “found” or “concluded” _______  — but that other scientists disagree.   

 

imo It is rather a problem in some ways that science studies, articles, letters etc, are turning into news headlines and contoversy possibly prematurely. 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/2-utah-county-businesses-told-staff-to-ignore-covid-19-guidelines-resulting-in-68-positive/article_d8426991-a693-5879-9d88-f9e094aef5b5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

in Utah two businesses told staff to ignore quarantine guidelines after contact with a positive case.  Now they have 68 cases between them.

I couldn't get the link to open up for me but while I feel for people impacted by the economic impacts of this pandemic, I hope that these businesses lost their business licenses for this irresponsible behavior. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

You can test positive for TB without the vaccine and not have TB ? 🤔. But you obviously don't have it as you would obviously know right ? I've had family members of my grandparents die of it and been told it is a wasting disease with a lot of coughing. I am however convinced you have TB antibodies though I am not sure how you got them without a vaccine. Exposure ? 

The doctor that told me here when I tested positive for TB assumed I had it as i had just moved within a year or so from India. He and I did not think about vaccination or know I would test positive because of the vaccine.I confirmed positively I had BCG as a baby when I called home crying. 

Do you think though that though you have a compromised immune system and difficult respiratory illnesses, the TB antibodies you have  somewhat lessened the impact of it each time. What I mean is, if you did have COVID it sort of mitigated you that you did not land in hospital vs the non-immunocompromised people who landed in hospital with severe symptoms without the anti-bodies you have ? 

I could have had exposure to TB.  I have had multiple x-rays specifically looking for TB.  I don't have it.  (Which is good!)

It is hard to tell if the BCG vaccine (If I did indeed have it) did something or not.  I am also on immunotherapy and right there that impacts how my body reacts to viruses and bacteria.  I used to land in the ER at least once a year if not more.  I have had zero ER visits since starting immunotherapy about five years ago (not sure on the dates). 

[EmseB]

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-80percent-deaths-20200506-fuhlhtusajb7dd7p6sf5xekl54-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This is insane. Is this not crazy? 

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

IF a prior vaccine with / for a dissimilar organism (BCG — Bacillus Calmette Guerin is a good example of one where this is possibly a bit helpful ) happens to help give protection to CV19, but the person has not had a virus similar to CV19, I would expect a negative test for CV19 antibodies.

If a person had had, and had survived, a prior similar coronavirus (such as SARS1) and if that did give immunity to SARS2, then unless the antibody test is specific enough to distinguish SARS1 and SARS2, the person would probably test positive. 

Also, unless the antibody test is specific enough to distinguish between coronaviruses, there is a chance that the antibody test would be a false positive based on a coronavirus cold infection, but with out the person having immunity to SARS2.  Considering how many people have had a cold and that many cold are from coronavirus,  this is a considerable problem for tests to be made that are specific enough to distinguish. 

I'm trying to figure out if an immigrant-heavy population might have more herd immunity than the Covid19 antibody tests imply.  So I think you are saying that if the person has acquired immunity to certain similar diseases, it is possible they would not have CV19 antibodies even if they had been exposed and fought it off?  So individuals who have that kind of background should be excluded from the studies in order to make them more accurate.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I couldn't get the link to open up for me but while I feel for people impacted by the economic impacts of this pandemic, I hope that these businesses lost their business licenses for this irresponsible behavior. 

https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/two-utah-county-business-refused-to-follow-covid-10-protocols-68-employees-test-positive/

“UTAH COUNTY, Utah (ABC4 News) – As Utah County leaders respond to the Governor’s new executive order, they state two businesses who refused to follow COVID-19 protocols have now had 68 employees test positive for the virus. 

The two companies were in two different geographic locations of Utah County and leaders stated in a press release that 48% of employees at one business were infected and during the tracing contacts
conducted by the Utah County Health Department and Utah Department of Health, they found both
businesses told employees to not follow quarantine guidelines, even after exposure to a confirmed case at work. 

Additionally they required employees with positive COVID-19 test results to still report to work. 

“This is completely unacceptable and resulted in a temporary full closure for one business along with heightened requirements for future cleaning and inspections,” stated the press release issued by the Utah County Commission. 

Dr. Angela Dunn, Utah Epidemiologist, said during Wednesday afternoon’s COVID-19 press conference there is no immediate threat to the public as a result of these two businesses outbreaks.”

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-chief-says-high-death-toll-was-surprise-2020-5/amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

The Swedish state epidemiologist has said their death toll came as a surprise.  I haven’t seen full text of the interview only what’s quoted but it sounds like they still back their strategy but really expected to be able to keep the virus out of nursing homes more successfully.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-chief-says-high-death-toll-was-surprise-2020-5/amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

The Swedish state epidemiologist has said their death toll came as a surprise.  I haven’t seen full text of the interview only what’s quoted but it sounds like they still back their strategy but really expected to be able to keep the virus out of nursing homes more successfully.  

That just seems so naive 

[Pen]

20 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm trying to figure out if an immigrant-heavy population might have more herd immunity than the Covid19 antibody tests imply.  So I think you are saying that if the person has acquired immunity to certain similar diseases, it is possible they would not have CV19 antibodies even if they had been exposed and fought it off?  So individuals who have that kind of background should be excluded from the studies in order to make them more accurate.

 

I am absolutely Not saying any such thing!!!

 

[Terabith]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR1bAY409htBfEzfHudtDkq03HGVFBwRk8Ruutgcch4du9k-PBBCgh2rWec

Could llamas save us all?

[Ausmumof3]

We have 1 new case in SA today.  It’s a man who immigrated from the UK and he arrived six weeks ago.  He did quarantine and developed a loss of taste and smell but didn’t go for testing because he didn’t know these were likely symptoms till recently.  
 

so quite a long time after meaning I guess there’s a good chance we will still have new cases pop up.  

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, EmseB said:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-80percent-deaths-20200506-fuhlhtusajb7dd7p6sf5xekl54-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This is insane. Is this not crazy? 

This virus certainly seems to thrive in places with group accommodation scenarios.  ships, nursing homes, meat packets dormitories etc.  

[ElizabethB]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The antibody tests are (in theory) supposed to be designed to be specifically sensitive to this coronavirus, not other coronaviruses or other viruses in general. 

Dreamergal, I have tested positive for TB for over 30 years.  I may or may not have had the BCG vaccine.  I know that my siblings had it though my mom thinks that I didn't.  But I have immune problems for years and have had some very difficult respiratory illnesses and might have had COVID 19 in Feb. and March (unconfirmed but had a lot of symptoms but not enough to meet the threshhold for the limited testing available. 

Isn't UW Virology doing thousands of antibody tests a day now?  You can get as many as you want in Idaho or Utah, they bought a bunch and give them and mail them out in bulk.  I'd see if your doctor can order one.  https://testguide.labmed.uw.edu/public/view/NCVIGG

The UW Virology/Abbott test is very sensitive and accurate, some of the others are not as good, but most of the US ones are decent, some of the international ones are very poor, some are good, it depends on the country.  

Edited May 7, 2020 by ElizabethB

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That just seems so naive 

I think they had a lot of confidence in their infection control protocols.  But yeah here in Aus we’ve seen how flu goes through so I can’t imagine it being that different.

[Jean in Newcastle]

18 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think they had a lot of confidence in their infection control protocols.  But yeah here in Aus we’ve seen how flu goes through so I can’t imagine it being that different.

Not just flu but contagious viruses like norovirus as well. 

[Ausmumof3]

Global times 

Students in South #China's Hainan Province will not need to wear a mask during PE classes, according to province's education department. The order comes after several students reportedly died while running with mask on in PE class.

[Pawz4me]

7 hours ago, EmseB said:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-80percent-deaths-20200506-fuhlhtusajb7dd7p6sf5xekl54-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This is insane. Is this not crazy? 

According to our state's stats as of a day or two ago, 23 percent of the positive cases have been in people 65 and over. But that age group accounts for 87 percent of the deaths. So that age demographic is getting hit hard, and they comprise most of the people in nursing homes. My county has had 11 deaths and 9 of them have been nursing home residents.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Pawz4me

[TracyP]

8 hours ago, EmseB said:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-80percent-deaths-20200506-fuhlhtusajb7dd7p6sf5xekl54-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

This is insane. Is this not crazy? 

My state is also right up there - 81% of our deaths are nursing home residents. I think every state is either already suffering from this problem (whether they acknowledge it or not is another story) or will be in the near future. It is impossible to completely quarantine these individuals, and I don't see a solution anywhere in the near term.

[Joker]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston25news.com/news/trending/survivors-coronavirus-banned-joining-military/PVKQZZ7GXVB2XEVKJYMG5ZJZRQ/%3foutputType=amp

Did you guys see this? It seems to state that testing positive for the virus is considered a permanent disqualification from joining the military. I haven’t looked into it too much yet but there are numerous articles from several sources.

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

According to our state's stats as of a day or two ago, 23 percent of the positive cases have been in people 65 and over. But that age group accounts for 87 percent of the deaths. So that age demographic is getting hit hard, and they comprise most of the people in nursing homes. My county has had 11 deaths and 9 of them have been nursing home residents.

This is a common outcome across states and across countries.  I haven't seen anyone be able to separate the "nursing home" setting versus "age"  and "health conditions" to determine how much the nursing home setting is contributing to the high death rate.  

[Ausmumof3]

51 minutes ago, Joker said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston25news.com/news/trending/survivors-coronavirus-banned-joining-military/PVKQZZ7GXVB2XEVKJYMG5ZJZRQ/%3foutputType=amp

Did you guys see this? It seems to state that testing positive for the virus is considered a permanent disqualification from joining the military. I haven’t looked into it too much yet but there are numerous articles from several sources.

I can understand why for a current diagnosis but not for a diagnosis that’s recovered from.  Unless they thinks there’s a risk of long term shedding.

this might discourage people from seeking testing.

[TracyP]

This doesn't seem that surprising but might bring some peace of mind.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/496483-evidence-mounts-that-outside-is-safer-when-it-comes-to-covid-19

Health experts say people are significantly less likely to get the coronavirus while outside, a fact that could add momentum to calls to reopen beaches and parks closed during the COVID-19 pandemic.

.....

 

Gottlieb pointed to a study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, that examined outbreaks in 320 Chinese cities outside Hubei province between Jan. 4 and Feb. 11 and found only one outbreak that occurred outdoors. 

Experts warned that people are not completely safe outdoors and that it is important to stay six feet away from people outside.

.....

As people go outside for their daily exercise and pass by one another, experts offered reassurance that simply passing someone for a split second outdoors presents a low risk. 

“The virus can’t magically teleport,” said Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “It needs a cough or sneeze or something, singing, talking, spitting. ... It’s not magnetism or something like that.”

Adalja said some of the decisions around activities such as sitting closer than six feet away from a friend outside on the grass have to do with how much risk someone is personally willing to accept. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088898v1
 

Study on seroprevalance in Geneva Switzerland.  Interestingly shows lower rates for older people.  Still mostly under 10pc so not near herd immunity.

[Ausmumof3]

Article in the Lancet from Johan Giesecke explaining why Sweden has decided against hard lockdowns.  
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(20)31035-7

 

[Lanny]

1 hour ago, Joker said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston25news.com/news/trending/survivors-coronavirus-banned-joining-military/PVKQZZ7GXVB2XEVKJYMG5ZJZRQ/%3foutputType=amp

Did you guys see this? It seems to state that testing positive for the virus is considered a permanent disqualification from joining the military. I haven’t looked into it too much yet but there are numerous articles from several sources.

 

Yes. I read about that last night. It is true.  Positively that will be disqualifying. Those who are rejected can appeal, as they can with other medical issues that are disqualifying. 

ETA: There may be a distinction between "Testing Positive" and having had the Covid-19? It seems that many people test Positive, who don't have any symptoms.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Lanny
Add ETA

[brehon]

On 5/3/2020 at 11:20 AM, Halftime Hope said:

I haven't read through this whole topic, so forgive me if this has been mentioned, but  MedCram on YouTube is head and shoulders above all the rest of medical information sources.  (I listen to JAMA as well.) Dr. Seheult is a pulmonologist and intensivist and regularly works in the ER in a hospital in California.   He has had extensive coverage of the mechanisms of COVID, covers the key data and studies coming out, and always, always links journal articles that reference whatever he is talking about.  He has also covered supplements and non-pharma interventions, i.e. how did docs treat patients before we had medication?  (He looked extensively at the 1918 pandemic and lessons learned from that. In fact, he has a hydrotherapy routine he does daily, as there is reliable data that it increases ?neutrophil? activity....sorry, I can't remember precisely, but it is a researched and proven treatment that inhances the innate immune system.

On top of that, he is a master educator, so it's a really helpful source!

The other channel that has been interesting but more focused on respiratory management is EMCrit.  It's been a good journey, and we are just at a pivot point.  It will be very interesting hearing how treatment changes, now that they are figuring out that the respiratory issues are really secondary to massive oxidative overload.  

EMCrit and its sister blog/podcast/etc PulmCrit are outstanding!! I think they are the top sources of information out there for emergency/critical care. Weingart and his crew really do a fantastic job! 

[HeartString]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston25news.com/news/trending/survivors-coronavirus-banned-joining-military/PVKQZZ7GXVB2XEVKJYMG5ZJZRQ/%3foutputType=amp

Did you guys see this? It seems to state that testing positive for the virus is considered a permanent disqualification from joining the military. I haven’t looked into it too much yet but there are numerous articles from several sources.

I find it very concerning, in the same vein as “watch what they do, not what they say”.  Is it due to the risk of permanent damage to the lungs and heart?  Is it the risk of the virus reactivating?  

[EmseB]

14 minutes ago, Cnew02 said:

I find it very concerning, in the same vein as “watch what they do, not what they say”.  Is it due to the risk of permanent damage to the lungs and heart?  Is it the risk of the virus reactivating?  

I would say it's more likely a knee jerk reaction to not wanting them in boot camp right now and a poorly broad application of that. Trust me when I say the people writing those policies are not that thoughtful nor do they think that far into the future.

[Pen]

Vitamin D

It seems to me like Vitamin D has been raised here enough that by now anyone following this thread will have gotten that point.

But in case not, or in case someone here is interested in Vitamin D, but not following the other thread, there was a post by @ElizabethB on the Vitamin D CV19 thread linking an article based on extensive modeling that could be worth looking at. 

Title is to the effect that evidence exists for ***Causal*** relationship between higher Vitamin D levels (including via supplements) and better CV19 outcomes. 

Though the mechanism of *why* it would help was already well explained, I thought, in the slide show that I have linked several times upthread.  

I’ll try to add a link to other thread or the article direct later. 

 

[73349]

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Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[brehon]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:13 PM, vonfirmath said:

 

I wonder when these started. As I said--grew up in Houston and don't remember these at all.

 

ETA: It appears they became a thing sometime between a big 1995 heat wave in Chicago and a 2003 wave in France. Since I lived in Washington (state) at the time, I missed it entirely. https://www.cdc.gov/climateandhealth/docs/UseOfCoolingCenters.pdf

 

I remember being told on particularly hot days in Houston to make sure to drink lots of water, and be aware of the signs of heat stroke. But that's it.  Our family had AC but did not use it due to cost.

I grew up in Houston in the 70s-80s. No cooling centers then, either. Well, except for the public pools and various stores. My family also did not use AC often due to cost. 

[EmseB]

13 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

No, that's not surprising. The oldest people are both most likely to die if infected and most likely to live in a group facility. (Very few people over 85 don't live in one.) And such facilities are suitable for the spread of any kind of germ.

This is the flip side of so very few young people dying.

Right but this is with shelter in place for the last however many weeks. It sort of looks like we are killing the very people we're trying to protect. Or at least whatever we're doing isn't working for some reason.

[Terabith]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I can understand why for a current diagnosis but not for a diagnosis that’s recovered from.  Unless they thinks there’s a risk of long term shedding.

this might discourage people from seeking testing.

One article I read said that it’s because they aren’t sure what the long term ramifications of the virus will be.  

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Cnew02 said:

I find it very concerning, in the same vein as “watch what they do, not what they say”.  Is it due to the risk of permanent damage to the lungs and heart?  Is it the risk of the virus reactivating?  

This is my thinking too. We have seen the anecdotal reports of damage to a variety of body systems. Much like any other possible pre-existing condition, until they know the mental and physical consequences of this, they’re not putting them on the payroll.