Would you do something?

[DawnM]

So.......between this stress and about 5 other stressors I am not willing to put on a public message board, some work related, I have decided to take tomorrow off of work.  I actually had already planned it, and had some appointments that I am now cancelling.  I just need a day!

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Although I'm not familiar with current books on the subject, Go Ask Alice is definitely not the book I'd choose. It's fictional but presented as a true diary and we weren't told it was fictional back when it came out. For another, it's on the level of Reefer Madness in terms of scare tactics. I was a teen when it came out and my friends and I thought it was laughable. We weren't into drugs but it was the 70s and we knew plenty of people who were. The book is just way off base about a teen girl's life at that time. 

Here's a long review on it -

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/go-ask-alice/

Oh, this one actually gives recommendations for better books instead of that one. I'm not familiar with any of them, I'm just passing it along in case it's helpful.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/29829-go-ask-alice-is-still-awash-in-controversy-43-years-after-publication

 

Hmm ... I always knew it was a "don't do drugs" book.  It was quite obvious from the second I picked it up as a tween.  Maybe the writer of the article is mistaken.  Anyhoo - it was news to me that this was fiction.  But even if it is, I don't think that automatically ruins it.  Not saying I will or won't recommend it.  I think it served a purpose at the time.

[Lady Florida.]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Hmm ... I always knew it was a "don't do drugs" book.  It was quite obvious from the second I picked it up as a tween.  Maybe the writer of the article is mistaken.  Anyhoo - it was news to me that this was fiction.  But even if it is, I don't think that automatically ruins it.  Not saying I will or won't recommend it.  I think it served a purpose at the time.

There are many, many articles about it. I only linked those two. It's pretty generally accepted that the so-called editor is actually the author and that the book is fictional. There seem to be a number of better books available that are either true stories or fictional ones that are much more well written than that one.

[gardenmom5]

38 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

DSS has been called.  Now I am trying to figure out how to report him.  Apparently he is in charge of complaints so any complaint filed with the precinct goes straight to his desk first.

can you send it to the chief's office?  is there are higher legal jurisdiction in your city which has authority over the precinct?   the country sheriff?

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

There are many, many articles about it. I only linked those two. It's pretty generally accepted that the so-called editor is actually the author and that the book is fictional. There seem to be a number of better books available that are either true stories or fictional ones that are much more well written than that one.

Fine re the fictional stuff - I really don't care about that.  I was saying the writer may be mistaken about how readers perceived the purpose of the book at the time.  It was obviously a cautionary tale - I don't see how any person who actually read it could have thought otherwise.

[gardenmom5]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

We don't know exactly what it is. That's for someone else to investigate. If the corruption was that widespread, my call would go to the FBI. In a smaller force where, as the OP said, the officers already tried to confront dad, I have to believe they know and would like to do better.

DEA.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

can you send it to the chief's office?  is there are higher legal jurisdiction in your city which has authority over the precinct?   the country sheriff?

 

yes, I can, but probably not anonymously.  

Just looked him up.  He is a sergeant in his police office AND on the greater county SWAT team.   

[Lady Florida.]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Fine re the fictional stuff - I really don't care about that.  I was saying the writer may be mistaken about how readers perceived the purpose of the book at the time.  It was obviously a cautionary tale - I don't see how any person who actually read it could have thought otherwise.

I agree that it was obviously a cautionary tale but it was sold to us as being a real diary. I was 16 when it was published and so was definitely in the target audience. I read it. My friends read it. We thought it was hilarious, which I'm sure wasn't the author's intent. That's how teens at the time reacted to it. Adults OTOH, thought it was a serious cautionary tale. 

ETA: I think if adults want kids to read and react positively to a cautionary tale, it needs to be a realistic and well told tale. Go Ask Alice was neither. 

ETA again: I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to help since you asked for recommendations. I recommend staying away from that book and looking into something else if you want to give your kids a good cautionary tale. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Lady Florida.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Sometimes it's not about expecting change, it's about doing the right thing.

 

Yep.  For all we know, reporting this may lay the groundwork to fire/discipline/prosecute this officer if he is involved in something more. It's still important. It still matters.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I agree that it was obviously a cautionary tale but it was sold to us as being a real diary. I was 16 when it was published and so was definitely in the target audience. I read it. My friends read it. We thought it was hilarious, which I'm sure wasn't the author's intent. That's how teens at the time reacted to it. Adults OTOH, thought it was a serious cautionary tale. 

ETA: I think if adults want kids to read and react positively to a cautionary tale, it needs to be a realistic and well told tale. Go Ask Alice was neither. 

ETA again: I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to help since you asked for recommendations. I recommend staying away from that book and looking into something else if you want to give your kids a good cautionary tale. 

Maybe the effect on younger kids was different from the effect on older teens.  As would be the case for most teen and "young adult" fiction.

I do appreciate your input.  Like any book, different people will respond differently.  It was incredibly popular for a reason.  I do remember it was sort of under the table ... a friend "secretly" lent it to me - I think many parents were afraid of it.  That part is kind of hilarious - because it was not a dangerous book IMO.  Even though it introduced dangerous behaviors, it did not make me or my friends want to try any of that.

[gardenmom5]

40 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

yes, I can, but probably not anonymously.  

Just looked him up.  He is a sergeant in his police office AND on the greater county SWAT team.   

I'd probably report it to the DEA.

eta: given his rank, and being on swat - I'd wonder if he was on the take from other dealers. . . . . hence, reporting to DEA.

 

is his son growing?  or does he get his "stuff" from a supplier?  the dad is in a position to know what is going down, before it "goes down".  he is in a position to warn suppliers before anything happens to them.  and that could be extremely profitable for him.

Edited October 31, 2019 by gardenmom5

[TechWife]

52 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

True. But if there is no benefit that actually happens, and my reporting it hurts people who have no say in the matter (my son), that's an ethical dilemma too. 

I personally wouldn't be willing to have a corrupt cop target my son so that I could feel good about reporting him. If I honestly thought it would improve the situation, that's a different situation. But if I don't think any actual good happens, and some innocent people get hurt, it isn't quite as clear cut. 

Yes, it is an ethical dilemma, I totally agree. Doing the right thing isn’t about making yourself feel good, though. Sometimes doing the right thing is scary, crappy & anxiety provoking. All possible outcomes need to be considered, even negative ones & I didn’t mean to downplay that at all. But, when outcomes are considered, it remains true that in a moral society the default must be to do the right thing. If I’m understanding you correctly, you perceive that reporting isn’t the right thing to do. Others look at the same, limited facts that we have available to us and think that reporting is the right thing to do.  Apparently, that has been Dawn’s conclusion as well. Considering possible outcomes has the benefit of allowing us to anticipate and prepare for consequences. The right thing isn’t always obvious and the consequences aren’t always enjoyable. Doing the right thing is often very difficult - but we shouldn’t avoid doing the right thing based upon how it makes us feel - good or bad. 

[DawnM]

56 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'd probably report it to the DEA.

eta: given his rank, and being on swat - I'd wonder if he was on the take from other dealers. . . . . hence, reporting to DEA.

 

is his son growing?  or does he get his "stuff" from a supplier?  the dad is in a position to know what is going down, before it "goes down".  he is in a position to warn suppliers before anything happens to them.  and that could be extremely profitable for him.

 

How do you report to them?  I am looking at the online form and it says to put down exactly what you witnessed and exact time.  I have never actually seen the son sell drugs.  I know dad has confirmed he is selling and son #2 has said he sells.  And seller has pictures on Instagram of him smoking pot.  But other than that, I can't see how to report dad for allowing it.

 

[gardenmom5]

10 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

How do you report to them?  I am looking at the online form and it says to put down exactly what you witnessed and exact time.  I have never actually seen the son sell drugs.  I know dad has confirmed he is selling and son #2 has said he sells.  And seller has pictures on Instagram of him smoking pot.  But other than that, I can't see how to report dad for allowing it.

 

here's a list of phone numbers for domestic divisions.  given the details, it may be better if you actually talk to someone, and not submit an "anonymous tip" online.

eta: you're not reporting the son dealing so much as you are reporting the father, a police sergeant and swat team member (and the one through whom any complaint coming into the precinct has to go . . . . ) - is looking the other way.  and HE has confirmed it to you - and indicated (not in so many words) he's looking the other way.  so that is firsthand knowledge.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by gardenmom5

[easypeasy]

5 hours ago, unsinkable said:

90% of the kids you know or your kids know are using pot?

That is so far outside of the commonly cited statistics that I wonder where you live? It sounds like a horribly toxic ( both literally and figurativly) environment for kids, I wouldn't want to live there.

yep. Although, to clarify, let me say that 90% have tried/have used/are using pot. Not all of them are active users, or even social users, but most of them have tried it at least once or twice & aren’t opposed to using it again. 
 

It isn’t just “where we live,” though. Due to my kids’ activities, they have friends spanning the country that they see on a somewhat regular basis. I’m including those kids & their friends (my kids’ acquaintances) in my data. 

[Jyhwkmama]

You could also try reporting this to your State Bureau of Investigation.

[katilac]

6 hours ago, SKL said:

 Along these lines - does anyone have their kid read the book "Go Ask Alice"?  It was very popular when I was middle-school age.  I recently saw a movie that was made from it (thanks to YouTube).  I wondered if this was something our kids should read or not.  Or is there a newer book that youths read now?

Don't do it! Go Ask Alice is a gateway book. Let your kids read it, and soon whack descriptions of drug use will not be enough for them - they will move on to harder stuff like whack descriptions of occultism in Jay's Journal and other dangerous books.  

It only takes one exposure to a poorly written passage like this one for your kids to become addicted to sensational plots and horrific literary values: 

"But just before I was too out of it to notice what was going on, I saw Sheila with that c*cksucker she goes with setting out and lighting up Speed. I remember wondering why they were getting high when they had just set us out on this wonderful low, and it wasn't until later that I realized that the dirty sonsofbitches had taken turns raping us and treating us sadistically and brutally. That had been their planned strategy all along, the low-class shit eaters." 

At least it sounds exactly like a 15-yr-old girl 🙄

4 hours ago, SKL said:

 It was incredibly popular for a reason.  I do remember it was sort of under the table ... a friend "secretly" lent it to me - I think many parents were afraid of it.  That part is kind of hilarious - because it was not a dangerous book IMO.   

It was sort of under the table in some areas but required reading in others. Being on required reading lists boosts popularity quite a bit. 

It may not be a dangerous book but it's certainly a really bad one, lol. 

[TechWife]

21 minutes ago, Jyhwkmama said:

You could also try reporting this to your State Bureau of Investigation.

I was thinking the same thing. Even if they don't have "evidence" in the way of direct witness observation, the report will be there if something comes up later on the officer. Also, they may check in with the PD and get information about the previous incidents, which could cause them to act in some way, even if it is keeping an "open file" on the officer.

[katilac]

5 hours ago, TechWife said:

 I can say that I don't willingly or knowingly let dangerous people into my house when there are people there that I am responsible fo 

Me either, so the difference is that I don't necessarily think a 15-yr-old who smokes pot is a dangerous person. 

[sheryl]

Gee, Dawn, I would be VERY careful if you did notify the police officer/dad's superiors for fear of being harassed later.  Is there a way to document or provide evidence and keep it confidential (not bring your son into it - saying your son's friend).  I'm typing this quickly and it might not make sense.  

[Frances]

10 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

yes, I can, but probably not anonymously.  

Just looked him up.  He is a sergeant in his police office AND on the greater county SWAT team.   

What about an anonymous call to the mayor’s office or city manager’s office in his city?

[DawnM]

DSS is following through.  They have called the mom and she gave them an earful and confirmed everything I have said AND told them she is ok with them following the law to the fullest extent, even though it is her son, she wants him to get help.

Right now, I am done with as far as I will go.  DSS said they may get law enforcement involved, which would take it off my plate, but I am monitoring.  

I am also a believer in praying and I am praying that the right people are involved to find out the right things, and that this family will not only be found out and truth brought to light, but restoration is found in repentance.  I am trying very hard not to be cynical about how this will go down and having faith that God will intervene.  That's really all I got at the moment.

[DawnM]

On 10/30/2019 at 8:44 AM, maize said:

A police officer turning a blind eye to illegal activity within their own home is a problem.

Marijuana is not harmless to developing adolescent brains; evidence continues to mount that it produces long term negative effects when used during adolescence. Sort of the way lead exposure in childhood or adolescence can result in life-long detriment. Messing with the development of a young brain is not a minor thing, and a kid who is dealing and encouraging other teens to use a substance that can impair their brain development is not doing something harmless.

Yes I would report.

Articles below offer a sampling of research into the impact of pot on teen brains; it's an ongoing area of research of course and not all studies agree with each other, but I see nothing reassuring about current findings.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-pot-really-does-to-the-teen-brain/

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/legal-pot/even-little-marijuana-may-change-teen-brain-study-finds-n958536

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/marijuana-may-be-worse-teen-brains-alcohol-study-finds-n916296?icid=related

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

 

Thanks for the links.  I will be going through these with my son.

[alisoncooks]

Great update. I have a hard time giving a pass to an officer turning a blind eye to illegal activity in his home. (But I also lump pot in with other illegal drug use, so there's that...). 

[DawnM]

13 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Great update. I have a hard time giving a pass to an officer turning a blind eye to illegal activity in his home. (But I also lump pot in with other illegal drug use, so there's that...). 

 

He should not even be sharing alcohol with kids or allowing them to drink in his home.  Or cigarettes.  Or vaping.

Edited November 1, 2019 by DawnM

[DawnM]

I thought my son was upset with us for saying he couldn't go over to BFF's house ever again AND the kid wouldn't be coming over for a long while, and even then, only in the open parts of our home (no closed doors).

But last night he told my middle son all about it and said he thinks we are being fair.  He didn't admit that to us! 😂   But it made me wonder if he was really looking for a way out of dealing with it.

[DawnM]

Do any of you have links to articles that say pot is more potent and different than it was 25 years ago?  

[scholastica]

20 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Do any of you have links to articles that say pot is more potent and different than it was 25 years ago?  

Here’s one.

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Here’s an article referencing the changes in legally grown marijuana.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/modern-marijuana-more-potent-often-laced-heavy-metals-and-fungus-180954696/

And illegal weed:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/53644-marijuana-is-stronger-now-than-20-years-ago.html

A simple google search will turn up many articles for you.

 

Yeah, I know I can google, but some of you have mentioned it and I thought maybe you had specific articles that would say it best.  I would like to show them to my kids.  I don't have time to read through a lot of articles to find them.

[Valley Girl]

FWIW, Dawn, I think you did the right--and courageous--thing.

The idea that a police officer--someone who regularly sees the results of and broken bodies and lives created by drug use/abuse--condoning the selling of drugs (even "just" marijuana) from his own home is disgusting. He shames the profession. I believe his type of LEO is a danger to us all because he gives more fuel to the ever-growing distrust of police and our legal system. So good for you. Even if nothing happens to him yet, with the mom on board maybe his older kid will be able to get on a more productive path, and his younger son may get a safer environment.

Good for you.

[Liz CA]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:36 PM, DawnM said:

 

Yeah, I go back and forth with that.  I feel that this kid has been spiraling further down the wrong path in the last few months.  That concerns me.

If he figures out I reported him I am getting a little more ok with that.  BUT, I also know his kids tend to share their dirty laundry with many, so they may not suspect us.  I am not sure.

 

 

This could end up in a blurry boundary situation. Trying to parent someone else's child along with your own because you care. Where does your responsibility end or conflict with the wellbeing of your own sons. This is something I would ponder.

Also - not just to Dawn - but to all who said cannabis is "not that bad," in my state where it's legal, weed laced with fentanyl has recently killed people.  I have no clue if this dealing kid is growing his own or getting it from another supplier but it's Russian Roulette. Also, findings in the field of neuroscience have shown that cannabis does affect a maturing brain quite differently than it may affect the brain of a forty year old.

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

This could end up in a blurry boundary situation. Trying to parent someone else's child along with your own because you care. Where does your responsibility end or conflict with the wellbeing of your own sons. This is something I would ponder.

Also - not just to Dawn - but to all who said cannabis is "not that bad," in my state where it's legal, weed laced with fentanyl has recently killed people.  I have no clue if this dealing kid is growing his own or getting it from another supplier but it's Russian Roulette. Also, findings in the field of neuroscience have shown that cannabis does affect a maturing brain quite differently than it may affect the brain of a forty year old.

 

According to the kid, his brother gets it shipped in unmarked boxes from California.  Crazy.

[Liz CA]

41 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

According to the kid, his brother gets it shipped in unmarked boxes from California.  Crazy.

 

You have probably already done so, but I would likely preach again on consuming something from an unknown source. Especially CA, which is where the fentanyl-laced weed recently claimed lives

It just occurred to me that this is a Federal issue since it's being shipped through the postal system across state lines.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Liz CA

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Valley Girl said:

Even if nothing happens to him yet, with the mom on board maybe his older kid will be able to get on a more productive path, and his younger son may get a safer environment.

Good for you.

Or, the older one will end up with a possible felony conviction - which aside from the dangers of him becoming more criminalized in jail, facing assault while there, being pressured into joining a gang, etc will then come out with many/most gainful employment opportunities closed to him. Meanwhile, his father loses his job and can't pay child support anymore, mom can't afford to keep the house she's in, etc etc. 

There are a lot of potential bad things that will happen to the older kid, the younger brother, and even the OP's son. I'm not saying she did the wrong thing, I'm saying it is really really complicated. 

[Terabith]

With the information about it going through the postal system, I would be tempted to notify the FBI.  

[alisoncooks]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Or, the older one will end up with a possible felony conviction - which aside from the dangers of him becoming more criminalized in jail, facing assault while there, being pressured into joining a gang, etc will then come out with many/most gainful employment opportunities closed to him. Meanwhile, his father loses his job and can't pay child support anymore, mom can't afford to keep the house she's in, etc etc. 

There are a lot of potential bad things that will happen to the older kid, the younger brother, and even the OP's son. I'm not saying she did the wrong thing, I'm saying it is really really complicated. 

Complicated, perhaps, but not the OP's doing. The consequences are from the father's/older son's behavior. They are the ones threatening their family/livelihoods/future. 

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

This could end up in a blurry boundary situation. Trying to parent someone else's child along with your own because you care. Where does your responsibility end or conflict with the wellbeing of your own sons. This is something I would ponder.

Also - not just to Dawn - but to all who said cannabis is "not that bad," in my state where it's legal, weed laced with fentanyl has recently killed people.  I have no clue if this dealing kid is growing his own or getting it from another supplier but it's Russian Roulette. Also, findings in the field of neuroscience have shown that cannabis does affect a maturing brain quite differently than it may affect the brain of a forty year old.

 

I am a parent and a former teacher and a current school counselor.......this kid speaks to all of my personas! 😋

[KungFuPanda]

On 10/30/2019 at 10:11 AM, happysmileylady said:

Yeah, no, I would be backing as far away from that kind of crazy as fast and I could, I and would be *strongly* encouraging my adult child to do the same.  Shady crazy people do shady crazy things and I am not about to welcome shady and crazy to affect my life. 

 

I agree with this.  If his life blows up and he can trace it back to you, it would not be worth the possible repercussions.  I'd consider an anonymous call to Internal Affairs and by anonymous I mean I would not look up the number on my phone or computer.  I'd be finding that information in a phone book or library computer and placing the call from somewhere that couldn't be traced to me.   

[Valley Girl]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

Complicated, perhaps, but not the OP's doing. The consequences are from the father's/older son's behavior. They are the ones threatening their family/livelihoods/future. 

Yeah, that's kind of where I line up. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for drug dealers. (I don't care a whit that it's "only" weed at the moment.) They spread their poison, put their neighborhoods at risk, and ruin lives.

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

You have probably already done so, but I would likely preach again on consuming something from an unknown source. Especially CA, which is where the fentanyl-laced weed recently claimed lives

It just occurred to me that this is a Federal issue since it's being shipped through the postal system across state lines.

Yep. The use of the post office just took this crime to a whole other level.

[DawnM]

17 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Does that make it a federal crime? 

 

ETA I responded before reading past what I quoted to see other similar responses. Yeah this is bad news. 

I don't know, and so far, he hasn't been. caught.  I have no idea how they would even monitor that as I don't know if it is sent to the apartment, sent in his name, sent to a box in the mail center, fake name, no idea.

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

With the information about it going through the postal system, I would be tempted to notify the FBI.  

DEA

[gardenmom5]

31 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Does that make it a federal crime? 

 

ETA I responded before reading past what I quoted to see other similar responses. Yeah this is bad news. 

any criminal activity going across state lines is a federal offense because it is multiple states.  this is very serious.

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I don't know, and so far, he hasn't been. caught.  I have no idea how they would even monitor that as I don't know if it is sent to the apartment, sent in his name, sent to a box in the mail center, fake name, no idea.

 

I have no clue how this would be handled in your state but here in CA, if there is suspicious mail, it's intercepted and somehow marked and the recipient is apprehended when s/he picks up or receives the mail. In a recent case here, cameras around the post office have identified the shipper as well. Even if someone picks it up from a P O Box, the person can be taken into custody. This just is one more factor in cautioning your son and laying out in plain language what consequences could be should they be anywhere close to such an operation. Like gardenmom said, this is beyond dealing a little pot, this is a Federal crime.

[Bluegoat]

Really, how does some teen kid get hooked up with getting boxes of pot from another part of the country mailed to him?  I so think the dad is involved.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Valley Girl said:

Yeah, that's kind of where I line up. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for drug dealers. (I don't care a whit that it's "only" weed at the moment.) They spread their poison, put their neighborhoods at risk, and ruin lives.

Does this include, say, the owner of the local grocery store that sells beer and wine and cigarettes? They are spreading poison, putting neighborhoods at risk, and ruining lives, and should therefore have their own lives ruined?

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

Really, how does some teen kid get hooked up with getting boxes of pot from another part of the country mailed to him?  I so think the dad is involved.

The internet. I'm sure it's fairly simple to hook up with someone via an online forum, reddit, whatever. 

[Bluegoat]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

The internet. I'm sure it's fairly simple to hook up with someone via an online forum, reddit, whatever. 

 

Maybe, I know of people getting personal supplies that way.  Large quantities though?  There must be some substantial money involved.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Liz CA said:

 

I have no clue how this would be handled in your state but here in CA, if there is suspicious mail, it's intercepted and somehow marked and the recipient is apprehended when s/he picks up or receives the mail. In a recent case here, cameras around the post office have identified the shipper as well. Even if someone picks it up from a P O Box, the person can be taken into custody. This just is one more factor in cautioning your son and laying out in plain language what consequences could be should they be anywhere close to such an operation. Like gardenmom said, this is beyond dealing a little pot, this is a Federal crime.

 

No, he isn 't even near the brother at all.  And this has been going on for over a year, so I am thinking it is shipped to someone else's house.  I can't really remember the story now.  And I won't be able to ask again! 😂

I am praying that everything is going to come to light soon and truth is known.  He need so much help.  He has a whole host of issues, for which he uses drugs to cope with.  Dad doesn't seem to see that part.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Does this include, say, the owner of the local grocery store that sells beer and wine and cigarettes? They are spreading poison, putting neighborhoods at risk, and ruining lives, and should therefore have their own lives ruined?

The internet. I'm sure it's fairly simple to hook up with someone via an online forum, reddit, whatever. 

if the local grocer is illegally selling cigs and alcohol to minors, yes, he/she should be locked up.

[Valley Girl]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Does this include, say, the owner of the local grocery store that sells beer and wine and cigarettes? They are spreading poison, putting neighborhoods at risk, and ruining lives, and should therefore have their own lives ruined?

 

This makes no sense.

Are you seriously comparing the owner of the local grocery store legally selling legal (albeit problematic) products produced in a legal way to people who are legally able to purchase them to somebody illegally selling potentially adulterated products that may or not be legal to use (depending on geography) to people who may or may not be legally able to buy them?

Sorry. Doesn't wash.