Making kids practice...

[alisoncooks]

My girls are taking music lessons that they enjoy very much. This is their first time taking music lessons. I think they enjoy the class time and the other kids (it's a group class) more than the instrument. Neither child seems naturally gifted for this instrument.

The problem: they could care less about practicing. The class took a winter break in November, and they've not picked up the instrument once this past month. I have no desire to nag.  I also don't like paying for classes if they aren't putting forth effort. 

How much do you have to police your child's daily practice time? Would you pay for lessons for a child who resists daily practice? How much of this is mom's responsibility vs. the kid's responsibility?

[Farrar]

Practice over crazy holidays is tough if a kid doesn't have a real passion. I don't think I'd enforce it, personally, especially not for a beginner.

Practice during the school year... I mean, you're paying for these lessons. And your kids aren't older teens. I'd schedule it as part of their school day and enforce it. I would make it very routine - if you do a checklist, it's just another checklist item. If you do a routine or schedule, put it at the same time every day or every other day or whatever. I would not schedule more than needed. Put down the minimum. Have them set a timer. Don't nag about doing more even if you think they need it.

If it becomes less than joyous because of the practice... then you have to question if it's worth it overall. Lessons and practice are a package deal. They have to understand that.

[busymama7]

No kid wants to practice. It isn't fun to play until you are good at the instrument and you can't be good until you practice. And practice is hard work.   Some kids will play songs they know for fun but that's different. I do not leave this up to my kids. It's required daily before ANY privileges. 

And no I wouldn't pay for lessons for a kid who doesn't practice but if I've decided the learning is to their benefit or they have asked for lessons, then practice is required so that situation doesn't actually arise. Make sense?

[Another Lynn]

We've never had group lessons, but I would think it would undermine how seriously the student would feel the need to practice.  In an individual lesson the teacher's instructions would be very personal and I think the student would feel more responsible for following through.  Like others have said, we make music practice part of the assignment list of the school day.  My dd who takes violin has specific assignments for the break and she is expected to practice over break which she does with little complaint.  My two who take piano are more laid back (as is their instructor) and they have not practiced over break. 

[EMS83]

No I wouldn't pay.  I told my kids they had to practice 3x/week for a set amount of time to earn the next week's lesson, they go 3 strikes within a 4 month period, and if they "struck out," they lost lessons for six months.  This was ages 9-11.  To me, it's extracurricular, and wasn't my idea to begin with, so they need to do their bit.  One has stuck with it, one didn't, and that's ok.

[HomeAgain]

21 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

How much do you have to police your child's daily practice time? Would you pay for lessons for a child who resists daily practice? How much of this is mom's responsibility vs. the kid's responsibility?

Just like other subjects, music is skill based.  I absolutely make my kid practice.  He loves the instrument, he loves his teacher. Practice is hard because it requires self motivation, tedious work, and repetition that can get tiresome.  So I do what I can to make it easier:
1. practice is every day.  It's part of our school time.  Even on lesson days, there is a practice at home to work on the technique while the information is still fresh in his mind.  There is no choice not to practice, just like there's no choice not to do math or language arts.
2. I break it into two halves and use the timer.  One part is play: play through the new songs, play an old one, play scales...whatever.  It's his time to determine what he needs to do.  The second half is my time to work on technique and repetition with him.  We break down a piece and he learns the piece in small bites, with every note being done well before he moves on.
3. I picked up the instrument as well.  I use an online teacher, and after his lesson he gets to help me.  I am much slower at grasping some things than he is, so in effect he is being my tutor. 

 

[Chris in VA]

My daughter is a music ed major (viola). I always made practice her deal. She was fairly motivated when she started piano (we gave her lessons for that for 7 years, and she took viola in public school; she didnt have viola lessons til Jr year and then really only good ones for 9 months before auditioning for college entrance). I decided not to nag. It was good practice for me to stop controlling and good for her to understand ownership and responsibility. Only once did she not practice enough; I sent her to her lesson anyway and didn't rescue her. She cried. And she learned. 

You have to decide what you want to do, but it was freeing for me to let it be her thing. 

[Violet Crown]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

I picked up the instrument as well.

Why am I thinking Suzuki? 😉

I enforce daily practice, but as gently as possible. Sundays are practice-optional, but she has to (gets to) put together a little Sunday evening concert for the family.

The most fruitful thing I did was to realize that her real difficulty isn't (wasn't) the practice itself, but the transition. So my rule is, you have to set up, rosin, and tune, but then and only then you can quit. She's only twice quit after the transition; both times it turned out she was coming down with an illness.

Other things that have helped significantly to ease the practice pain:

1. No threats, bargaining, or options; cheerful enforcement.

2. Lots of positive feedback. My in-laws are always asking her to bring her cello when we visit and gush over her playing. Got to practice for Grandma and Grandpa and uncles and aunts and cousins!

3. Peer pressure. Her bff is her cello teacher's daughter and practices an insane amount.

4. She wrote a fan letter to Yo-Yo Ma, and he sent a big publicity photo with a personal note on it. I framed it and hung it and now Yo-Yo Ma smiles down on her encouragingly as she practices.

 

[maize]

I know someone who is manager of a major youth orchestra; kids who get in are high level players many of whom are quite passionate about their music. She says that even these kids mostly rely on parental reminders to keep them practicing.

Practice is hard work, involves lots of repetition, and generally doesn't satisfy the human brain's craving for excitement and novelty. Even kids who are motivated to play are likely to benefit from extra reminders and incentives to practice.

[Chris in VA]

I agree with ...the Texan and wanted to add my dd really could have practiced more, but I did not want conflict bc of all the conflict we had had with her brother. 

[Miss Tick]

In our house piano practice is twice a day on the weekdays for 40 minutes total, and once a day on the weekends. On breaks, we usually move to 30 minutes a day. We built up to those levels from a start closer to 20/day I think.

The morning practice is scheduled as part of school time in part to avoid conflicts. The later practice is at your discretion. If you miss one you generally make it up the next day or on the weekend. 

I try to be very hands-off about how you spend your practice time. Occasionally there are long spells of silence, or what sounds to my ear like inefficient practice, but that is between student and teacher. I will, on occasion, "help" when I feel i need to, but I try to keep that rare.

If practice became all silence everyday I would probably have them stop lessons. In our family lessons are framed as a practical art helping to make you a rounder person. After 4 years you are welcome to replace lessons with something else. One dd switched to photography.

[maize]

13 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

If my kids were actively and consistently resisting practice, and it wasn't simply an off day, I'd drop it. If it's simply a matter of habit building to practice consistently, that is different. 

The only thing I have to add to the advice you've received above, is if enforcing practice is causing a lot of conflict/relational issues with you and the girls, it might be worth dropping it for now. I had to realize that with my kids. No one here has, so far, had any passion for an instrument. Me having to be the practice police made me into an extremely grumpy, unpleasant mother, because they would put it off and/or be silly about it, etc. and my frustration would build until I became snappy over it. 

I finally just pulled the plug as it wasn't worth the relationship in my book. If they want to be resentful later that they never learned an instrument, that's on them. There's always a chance that they'll come around to it later. It's just always seemed to me that people who have a good ability/interest, will take to it on their own, and practice to their desired level on their own. People who have to be told and enforced may develop some of the technical ability, but will likely drop it as soon as they're out of the house as the passion is lacking. I know playing musical instruments develops good things, but so do many other activities. So that's what I would consider in all of this. 

I agree with you that practice enforcement isn't worth destroying a relationship over.

I disagree about the bolded bit. Especially for kids, the level of executive function, self motivation and self control needed to consistently do the hard work of practicing without outside reminders and reinforcement is very rare.

Just like most kids won't do the hard work of practicing and developing math or writing or foreign language skills without reminders and reinforcement. It is hard work. A lot of it is boring work.

I love music, but the level of skill I attained was almost exclusively due to my mother's efforts to keep me practicing. 

[HomeAgain]

33 minutes ago, Violet Crown said:

Why am I thinking Suzuki? 😉

 

 

😄 Half right.  Mine is Suzuki, his is not.  He started with a fiddler who just wanted him to love playing. When we moved, we found a very patient teacher here who was willing to give him a morning slot.  The Suzuki teachers only did evening and he was never good at concentrating close to bedtime. 
I found an online Suzuki teacher for myself.  🙂 My sister gave me an old family violin for ds when he grew enough but that is quite a ways away.  In the meantime I practice every day with the online teacher and ds often listens in so he can help me later.

[maize]

(I may or may not have come up with the grand idea of recording myself playing violin on a tape recorder and trying to pass the tape off as practice time when I was maybe eight years old...)

[gardenmom5]

Do they want you to remind them? 

I wanted that help from my mom for normal homework,  and she refused.   My friend's dd asked her to remind her to practice. 

Some kids have exec function  struggles, and want the help.

If they dig in and refuse when reminded, I consider not spending the money. 

[SKL]

When my kids were young, I could "make" them practice, but now it is harder.  I try to insist they practice 2x per week.  It should be more, but they have so many other things going on - at some point you have to be realistic.

[HomeAgain]

5 minutes ago, maize said:

(I may or may not have come up with the grand idea of recording myself playing violin on a tape recorder and trying to pass the tape off as practice time when I was maybe eight years old...)

Oh, you reminded me of something else we do!
Periodically I record ds.  Usually I record the same piece at various intervals, like his first year when he learned how to play Ode To Joy, and then again when he played it fluently, and then again this year when he learned a different variation of it.  Or a piece when he's just figuring it out, about half through, and when he has it down well.  That's mostly when he has a lot of trouble with something.  But I can play it back for him and show him just how far he's come and how he's able to now do things like mess with the tempo or mood.  It's a good incentive for him.

[busymama7]

14 minutes ago, maize said:

I agree with you that practice enforcement isn't worth destroying a relationship over.

I disagree about the bolded bit. Especially for kids, the level of executive function, self motivation and self control needed to consistently do the hard work of practicing without outside reminders and reinforcement is very rare.

Just like most kids won't do the hard work of practicing and developing math or writing or foreign language skills without reminders and reinforcement. It is hard work. A lot of it is boring work.

I love music, but the level of skill I attained was almost exclusively due to my mother's efforts to keep me practicing. 

I disagree with the part you quoted too. I have one of full scholarship for his instrument at a prestigious music school. It was clear to me he had talent but I had to require practice daily for years. His own internal motivation did eventually take over but when he was 8? Yeah that was all me. He's thankful 😁

[Miss Tick]

If you have some money left after The holidays, and if they are interested in what you have to suggest about practicing (mine politely listen until I give up), you might check out the book Practiceopedia. It has some clever ideas. Sadly, nothing my dc would implement on their own, and we have an established history of me staying out of their practice times.

Edited December 28, 2018 by SusanC
If life gives you melons...

[HS Mom in NC]

Practice is part of lessons, it just doesn't happen in the studio/classroom. I think parents often make the tragic mistake of not presenting kids these things as a package before agreeing to lessons.

How did I get my kids to practice?  The same way I got them to brush their teeth.  It was part of what we do every day. It wasn't optional.  It was its own subject in homeschool, set into our daily routine.  It was like a chore-Work first, then play.  If you're chores/practice/schoolwork isn't done you don't use screens, free read, play games, hang out with friends online, in text, or in person. No play until the work is done.  That's how life is supposed to work with occasional exceptions.

Yitzak Pearlman has said he doesn't like/want to practice.  It's not about wanting or liking it.  It just needs to be done.  I often respond to my children who say, "Don't want to." to things with, "You don't have to want to do it, you just have to do it.  That's what being an adult is all about." I still don't want to clean toilets, grocery shop, meal plan, go to the dentist, visit certain relatives, pay my taxes, pay my insane insurance costs, or listen to my kids tell me about video games, but I need to do all of those things because they're part of the process of meeting my end goals, so I do them without complaining about them very often.

If my kid caused constant conflict about practicing with a reminder or schedule, then I would refuse to pay for the lessons.  It's ridiculous to spend money of lessons if the kid isn't going to practice. I have a few music teacher friends and I hear this vent all. the.time.  Don't destroy a relationship over enforcing practice if your kid is the rare one whose parental relationship is being destroyed, just stop paying for the lessons and be done with it already if that's happening.

There's an unschool mom near me who is great at stuff like this.  She writes up a contract with her kids about what she expects of them in return for paying for lessons.  Attitude and consistent practice are part of it. If the kid slacks off, they review the contact and the behavior together once.  After that if it happens again, no more money for lessons.  She's not afraid of their feelings or of natural consequences.  She absolutely will stop paying for it and she has with one kid.  People can live wonderful enriched lives without paid lessons. And, here's another important thing to know, people can master an instrument as adults.  I know several people who paid for their own lessons as adults and went far.

[Susan in TN]

I agree with what many others have said.  Practice at the beginning is especially hard because everything IS hard until you reach a certain level of proficiency.  And knowing *how* to practice doesn't come naturally to most.  It can become a daily slog through a bunch of notes without some good direction from their teacher.  Sometimes just asking them how they can turn "these notes" into "music" is all it takes.

Our practice time is scheduled as a part of school - two of them practice first thing in the morning and the other two after the first two are done (you can only have so many practicing at once! )  

My kids all have to learn an instrument.  It's just what we do.  It's good for them and for their brain development and mental development and psychological development.  Music is a skill that can be used to help others through their entire lives. I tell them these things often.

I agree that sometimes it's good to take a break when lessons are on break. 

Another thing that I have found to be vital is a purpose in learning music.  That group class can be the best motivation for someone who needs to work on music to play well with others.  Having a youth orchestra or band or church or some other group to participate in can make the work worthwhile.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I consider music to be as important as the "core" subjects, so all three of my kids took piano until they got through Level 3.  Practice was part of the school day, and I gave whatever level of support each child needed at any given time.  Sometimes that involved sitting with them.  Other times, I only needed to provide a reminder and a timer.  Once they completed Level 3 in the piano book, they had the choice to either drop music (none of them did), switch instruments (one did), or add another instrument (two did this).  That being said, on holidays, I wasn't structured about their practice time, and sometimes, it fell through the cracks of the disorganized days.  But, I continued to nurture their love for music.  My goal was that music be a part of the fabric of their being, and the goal was achieved.  They all became at least proficient at playing piano, two also became really good at playing guitar.  All three of them sing beautifully.  Two of them compose beautiful music themselves.  And two of them incorporate music as a large part of their careers and lives (jury is still out on the youngest, but gladly she takes private piano and voice lessons).  

So, don't stop their musical learning just because they haven't self-initiated practice time during their holiday vacation.  Young kids need to know that progress is the goal. Encourage them to practice, but don't become a task master.  If you play yourself, scaffold their practice, supporting them until they gain the skills they need to go it on their own.  If you don't play, then consider learning with them.  Have them teach you to reinforce what they're learning.  Most of all, give them lots of enriching musical experiences, so they can see how what they're learning fits into the larger tapestry of the musical world.  

 

[catz]

My kid's started younger, but we just treated it as part of our school day and a core subject.  We still do now that they're teens.  You are not done with your school day until you practice.  We try to get one day on the weekend too.  When they were younger, I helped with practice strategy and breaking things down.  They're on their own now.  I think very few kids love practicing.  Even professional musicians struggle to practice at times.  

If you feel it's important, I'd set like an 18-24 month goal and enforce practice during school hours.  If you take the weekends off, that's ok, but I do think it is helpful to try and shoot for 6 day a week practice schedule.   Once it's an established habit, it really only becomes problematic over holidays and vacations when we're out of our normal routine.   If you don't feel it's important, don't pay for it.   I'm quite hands off now with my teens though I do mention it at times.   My oldest is now considering college music programs.  

[Guest]

I schedule practice. I will also say-and this is as a music major and music teacher, I do not expect practice over vacations. I encourage kids to play for family, etc (and pass out a pad of tiny post its so they can collect “autographs”and comments on their music when they play for others), but DD hasn’t touched a piano since the 22nd, and I suspect the same is the case for most of my students on their instruments (we had a concert on the 22nd at a senior community). Yes, we’ll have to do some rebuilding in Jan. But everyone needs a break with no obligations at times. 

[alisoncooks]

I'm pretty sure the class my girls are attending is not teaching them to practice. Mostly they've been introduced to a song and are expected to memorize it by March, when classes resume. Youngest feels very pressured by this. (There is a performance that this organization participates in; the kids will be performing at it.)

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm pretty sure the class my girls are attending is not teaching them to practice. Mostly they've been introduced to a song and are expected to memorize it by March, when classes resume. Youngest feels very pressured by this. (There is a performance that this organization participates in; the kids will be performing at it.)

I think this would be my January goal.  When you get back to schoolwork, sit down and tell them "practice is going to be a part of our day.  I'm going to sit with you for 20 minutes and we will work on one bite of the song at a time.  Let's break it into pieces right now so we know what we're looking at.  Part of our practice is going to be fun play.  We're going to do games like Simon Says or memory, where I hold up a note card and you play.  Some days, you will teach me some.  But we're going to do this every day so you are comfortable."

 

[Condessa]

My kids get gummy bears for practicing their instruments.  We line up five bears to “watch” them practice, or six if they start their practice without a reminder from me, and they get them at the end.  Before official school age, they are only doing lessons with Mom, and practicing is totally voluntary.  When they reach school age and start paid lessons, they make an agreement to practice five days per week.  If they have a bad attitude about doing it, I eat a gummy bear.  Generally they shape up pretty quickly before all their bears disappear.  (If they don’t, though, they are still required to finish.). 

Even my super-musical, largely self-motivated cello boy, who will sometimes wake us all up in the morning to the sound of him practicing independently, also sometimes needs the reminder that we made a bargain, and his side of the bargain is practice.  My side is providing lessons and renting his instrument.  If he gave a lot of trouble about it, I would still require music as a part of his education, but he would be doing piano or violin like his sisters (so much cheaper!)

Edited December 30, 2018 by Michelle Conde

[alisoncooks]

2 hours ago, WendyAndMilo said:

They are learning just one song in that time period??  

And there’s no lessons for three months???

The class is offered by a nonprofit group. The classes run in 8 week sessions, 1 fall and 1 spring. 

In the fall session, they learned some basic chords and one song. They introduced a new song the last class, with the instructions to have it down pat when they return (3 months).

I'm not a huge fan of the teaching style, but oldest doesn't want to stop. We can't afford a more traditional music class/teacher. (I did buy the Hoffman premium plan over Christmas; I'm trying to get them to switch...but they love the live class with other kids.)

[Condessa]

Our Suzuki teachers have used that line, “You only need to practice on the days that you eat.”  But when we used to try for every single day I found that we had a much harder time being consistent over the long term.  We would just get burned out.  Five days a week works well for us—they make consistent progress, and with a built-in break each weekend, we’re much better at sticking with it week after week.  Sometimes someone—usually cello boy—will choose to practice on a weekend, but it’s somehow a lot more fun when it’s their choice.

[Condessa]

Also, one thing that made a big difference was when I arranged for the instruments to be ready and out at dc’s eye level at all times.  Way more likely that they will decide to practice on their own, or less likely to resist being told to, if they can just pick it up and start.  That meant finding wall hangers for the violins and cello and hanging them at their owners’ eye levels.  Then the shoulder rests could be left on and the end pin out at the right level, and I would go through and tune them a couple times a week so they were always ready to go.  After that, the string players would pick it up and play something for fun throughout the day, as only the pianist had done before that.

[Donna]

When my dc started music lessons, practice was just something they did. It was part of their daily schedule like eating, brushing their teeth, or doing schoolwork. It became part of their routine that way. I would not have expected them to take the initiative to practice on their own, though I did have one who did. I think the trick, as a parent, is making practice enjoyable with games or stickers or whatever motivates that particular child.

There are very few children who begin an instrument (especially their first instrument) showing a giftedness for their instrument. It takes practice which makes them more proficient which leads them want to practice more.

 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm pretty sure the class my girls are attending is not teaching them to practice. Mostly they've been introduced to a song and are expected to memorize it by March, when classes resume. Youngest feels very pressured by this. (There is a performance that this organization participates in; the kids will be performing at it.)

 

There's a class break from November to March?? That's insane. Your girls don't have enough background or knowledge to have meaningful practice for such a long break. I'm no musician, but I'd consider regular practice with zero input for so long to be a negative rather than a positive. 

I wouldn't let this scenario decide whether they can have music lessons in the future. I'd finish up and do the performance if the lessons aren't costly and then take it from there. If this group is quite inexpensive, I might consider letting them do it again for fun (but maybe not, because I'm wary of teachers/groups that teach bad habits and structure); I would consider it a social activity as opposed to music lessons. If the cost is rather high, I'd honestly probably pull them out right now. 

As far as other music lessons go, consider ahead of time what you will require and if you will give reminders. I didn't have the knowledge to help my kids with practice, and I was also fine with them doing it more for fun, as in they could have gotten much further with longer practices but I never made them increase past thirty minutes. I agree with having it as part of the routine like schoolwork or chores. My kids had a checklist and practice was on it. There was usually a point in the afternoon when we would grab the list and see what was still undone. 

I just read your update. If the group lessons are affordable and private lessons are not on the horizon, I'd probably let them continue and not stress overmuch about practice during long breaks. They've had 8 lessons, how much can they practice? I'd probably let it go until a month before classes resume and then institute a very short daily practice. It won't take long to learn one song - I'm presuming they can read the music? Shoot an email to the teacher if needed and ask for advice on the best way to practice on their own. A recording of the song would also be a big help. 

We did some things that were mainly for fun. My kids took group tennis lessons and they definitely did not practice in between, lol. It was just a fun introduction. Had they wanted to continue, we would have discussed new expectations. 

[Condessa]

22 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

The class is offered by a nonprofit group. The classes run in 8 week sessions, 1 fall and 1 spring. 

In the fall session, they learned some basic chords and one song. They introduced a new song the last class, with the instructions to have it down pat when they return (3 months).

I'm not a huge fan of the teaching style, but oldest doesn't want to stop. We can't afford a more traditional music class/teacher. (I did buy the Hoffman premium plan over Christmas; I'm trying to get them to switch...but they love the live class with other kids.)

 

I would start them on Hoffman when you start up school after the holidays, but still let them do the class when it comes around again.  Let Hoffman provide the consistent instruction they need to be able to progress, and let the live class provide the fun/interest/motivation of the personal contact with others over music.  If you can afford that, it seems like the best of both worlds.

[alisoncooks]

16 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I would start them on Hoffman when you start up school after the holidays, but still let them do the class when it comes around again.  Let Hoffman provide the consistent instruction they need to be able to progress, and let the live class provide the fun/interest/motivation of the personal contact with others over music.  If you can afford that, it seems like the best of both worlds.

Even though they're 2 different instruments? (The live classes are mandolin.) Is that confusing?

[katilac]

16 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Even though they're 2 different instruments? 

 

Sure, it won't be any problem. 

[Condessa]

Yes, even with two different instruments.  I would probably set a minimum basic requirement for daily music practice (either a length of time or a choice of one Hoffmann lesson/practice these things on mandolin) and then let them choose each day which one they want to do.

[Condessa]

A lot of the basic music skills with rhythm, tones, and reading music will translate across instruments.

[Ausmumof3]

On 12/29/2018 at 5:58 AM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

If my kids were actively and consistently resisting practice, and it wasn't simply an off day, I'd drop it. If it's simply a matter of habit building to practice consistently, that is different. 

The only thing I have to add to the advice you've received above, is if enforcing practice is causing a lot of conflict/relational issues with you and the girls, it might be worth dropping it for now. I had to realize that with my kids. No one here has, so far, had any passion for an instrument. Me having to be the practice police made me into an extremely grumpy, unpleasant mother, because they would put it off and/or be silly about it, etc. and my frustration would build until I became snappy over it. 

I finally just pulled the plug as it wasn't worth the relationship in my book. If they want to be resentful later that they never learned an instrument, that's on them. There's always a chance that they'll come around to it later. It's just always seemed to me that people who have a good ability/interest, will take to it on their own, and practice to their desired level on their own. People who have to be told and enforced may develop some of the technical ability, but will likely drop it as soon as they're out of the house as the passion is lacking. I know playing musical instruments develops good things, but so do many other activities. So that's what I would consider in all of this. 

This was us.  I figured I already had to enforce math and spelling and I didn’t want one more thing to fight over so we quit.  I would love to get them back into it for the benefits of music but it was just too much frustration.

[LMD]

I make them practice, just like every school subject. I sit with them and help them practice most of the time.

My oldest has been playing for 9 years now. Just this year, at 13, she has started to really take responsibility for her own practices. I still prompt and remind if necessary, but it's becoming less necessary. Part of that is maturity, a huge part of that it proficiency - she is at a pretty high level now and the pieces are beautiful to play. And having her instrument out on a stand ready to just grab as the mood strikes helps a lot.