Bulimia and I'm so tired of being hungry

[Night Elf]

I was diagnosed with bulimia in 2017. I think it was the fall season. I didn't purge but I did heavily restrict after binges. I would go from one extreme to the other. I lived like that for years thinking myself normal. I was maintaining my weight and that was all that was important. I wasn't even trying to lose weight, although when the numbers on the scale went down, I'd get a high. 

So since June, I've been trying to overcome this eating disorder. I worked with a counselor and a nutritionist. I did my best but I did the least amount I could do. I was proud that I was only weighing once a week rather than every day. And I was proud that I stopped binging and increased my daily calories by 500 calories. So what I found is that I moderated myself and I was still maintaining my weight. Dh wants me to gain and I told him I would but every time I gain a couple of pounds, I freak out and restrict for the next day or two. However, my restricting isn't as severe as it used to be. 

However, for the past week or so, I feel hungry all of the time. I eat until satisfied and an hour later I'm ready to eat again. I can't do this. I feel like by increasing my daily calories, I've made my body realize that more food is needed so even when I finish a meal, it's hard to feel satiated. If I continue eating, I get over full and feel sick. I really hate that feeling more than feeling hungry. I'm also back to weighing every day, at least until Friday. I gave the scale to my Dh and asked him to hide it in the garage. I'm not ready to give it up but the number on the scale is going up and it's making me have very high anxiety.

I hate having this eating disorder. My body is trying to tell me what to do but my head is resisting. I really don't want to go back to my counselor. We talked ourselves out. We were only running in circles so I stopped going. I also got all the help I needed from the nutritionist. I didn't like the way she suggested I eat. She wanted me to eat 3 meals and have 1 snack in the evening but don't eat between meals. She wanted me to go at least 3 hours without eating so I got stuck on watching the clock. I didn't like that. That had my ignoring my hunger and fullness feelings.

My main problem right now is I'm eating 800-1000 calories between 8:00 pm and 9:30 pm when I turn out the lights. I try to eat a moderate amount during the day, but it seems that by 8:00 pm, I'm just plain hungry. I start with my regular snacks that are 220 calories. Then I end up with a PBJ sandwich (235), a bowl of cereal (110), a yogurt (130) and a Carnation breakfast chocolate drink (150). I sometimes add candy to that for another 100 calories. That's 945 calories. That's ridiculous! How do I stop this night time eating? 

My daily calories is 1700. Add to that the 945 and I'm eating over 2,600 calories a day. Five days a week I'm getting 10K steps at work, usually 12K but I do no other exercise because I can't sustain it because I hate it so much. I lost weight in 2011-2012 with Weight Watchers without exercising and have maintained without doing it as well. Dh is wondering if my increased activity is causing me to be hungrier. My problem is if I eat the calories that my Fitbit gives to My Fitness Pal, my numbers on the scale go up. I try not to eat beyond 1,700 but I fail at night.

I have a 2 lb. range I weigh as my weight fluctuates daily, of course. My weight is now 4 lbs. over my top weight. Dh seems to think it's fine because he wants me gain. However, I'm not happy with it. I've got to stop eating so much at night! 

So I wanted to type it out and share my troubles. I know there are a couple of you who have suffered from eating disorders in your lifetime. Do you have any advice for me? 

[Chris in VA]

I don't know much about this stuff,other than I, too, have eaten a lot at night, and probably have some disordered eating behaviors. 

I will name what I see (but it may not be correct)--you are binging at night. You are not eating enough calories throughout the day, then eating too much at one time. You are also eating foods that are soft and may need more fiber. But here's the thing--soft, sweet carbs are soothing to anxiety. They help create serotonin, too. 

Have you explored eating as a reaction or management technique to/for anxiety? 

❤️ Hugs to you. 

[Carrie12345]

I have no business giving advice related to the disorder.  My general advice for night time hunger would be to eat more protein during the day and save something like popcorn for nighttime munchies. 

Another possible idea might be to change up your nighttime routines. If you eat while watching tv, read a book instead. (Or other seemingly unrelated things that happen on autopilot.)

[freesia]

I agree with Chris what you are doing seems more a binge than hunger when I catch myself bingeing I usually need to evaluate if there is an area of my life where I feel out of control. Then I need to deal with that. Your trigger may be different. See this as a red flag for something that may be troubling you. With your history, I would also see if the bi-polar was cycling. Or if you are concerned about your ds starting school, but trying not to. 

[Kassia]

I don't have any advice for you.   I've had eating disorders for my entire life and still struggle every single day (or hour).  It's a horrible way to live.  Big hugs to you and I hope you can figure this out.  

 

[Pawz4me]

I'm sorry, Beth.

I've BTDT. I won't offer much advice, especially not about what/how/when to eat--because I know from experience how very wrong/misguided (for you) whatever I have to say may be. I will say:

1) It takes time. It took me probably ten years to get from extreme dieting to what passes for normal eating.

2) In your shoes I'd really consider trying to find some new professional help. I'm guessing that the right people will really be able to help you.

Hugs.

[Night Elf]

I used to drink a lot of water but once I started working, I dropped down to a low level. I'm usually so busy at work I don't think about drinking my water. I'm lucky if I get through one bottle at work.

I don't feel my bipolar specifically. I have no major ups and downs. I've been content and happy with the way things are going. Yes, I am nervous about ds starting school. I'm also nervous about his driving test. My anxiety hasn't been unusually high this past week, at least not that I'm aware of with my usual symptoms. 

I've thought about trying a new counselor but it's so hard to find one. I really liked my last counselor. She and I resonated and believed the same things. 

Off to grocery shop. I'm headed to my mom's today and she'll have lots of desserts available. I'm worried I'll lose control, and then I'll spend the rest of the day unhappy.

I never thought of my night time as binging. When I used to binge, it was an all day affair. However, it makes sense. I'll talk to DH and see if he can come up with a way for me to get a grip on this behavior.

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I never thought of my night time as binging. When I used to binge, it was an all day affair. However, it makes sense. I'll talk to DH and see if he can come up with a way for me to get a grip on this behavior.

A few ideas: What about completely changing your evening routine? Can you identify the setting in which you binge (i.e. snacking while watching TV, for example)? Change it to seated dinner, then brush teeth, take a walk? Consume food only while sitting down for meals at a set dining table?

Also, can you not bring those foods that tempt you to binge into your house in the first place? 

I second the recommendation for professional help. As an adult, you should be able to function for three hours without snacking; the advice to eat only at dedicated meal times sounds like a good one.

Best of luck.

Edited November 25, 2018 by regentrude

[Janeway]

I have/had bulimia. After endocrine testing, I found my blood sugar laid naturally low which led to me being quite hungry. I added good protein sources to try to even out my appetite. I also have hypothyroid and in recent years, Hashimotos. One other thing, I cannot stay up past 9:30pm because I get STARVED at night. No idea why. But I do whatever it takes to not eat then and go to to sleep, even if it means sleeping pills. 

 

So I would recommend endocrine testing. I would also add in good protein easy to grab snacks like nuts and such. And, do whatever it takes to go to sleep before your trigger time hits, or at least as soon after. Good luck!

[Annie G]

That is a lot of carbs and sugar you’re having in a short amount of time.  Although there are other things to deal with, changing what you are eating at night might be helpful. When I eat too many carbs, it doesn’t satisfy me at all- I want more!  Maybe try to find foods that take longer to eat- a bowl of cut up berries with a tablespoon of whipped cream mixed in feels decadent but takes a while to eat. Yeah, I know- it’s carbs- but better than candy.  Snacking on veggies dipped in hummus would be more fiber, fewer calories, take longer to eat.  

Kudos for continuing to fight to overcome this. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Have you had any bloodwork in the past month?  If not, call your doctor and ask for some. And let them know about this new pattern.  I wonder if you have a vitamin deficiency or if your meds might need to adjusted.  Also, get a bottle/cup and take your water with you.  That will be an easy fix to make sure you get your water. 

[Night Elf]

I do struggle with getting protein into my diet. I never meet what My Fitness Pal suggests.I started drinking the Carnation breakfast drinks because it had protein. I eat greek yogurt and cheese sticks. But I don't eat a lot of meat. At dinner I eat 2 ounces of meat, less depending on what we're having such as chicken tacos. 

I had the standard blood workup when I had my physical last month. I wasn't tested for vitamin deficiencies. 

I'm binging while sitting in bed reading. I get into bed at 8:00 pm and started that to get away from the kitchen. It worked for quite a while. I was content with my few crackers and skim milk snack, but it's increased to more food for a snack and then even more when I'm binging. Dh just told me he thought I was binging last night and I asked him why he didn't say anything to me and he said it just didn't occur to him. I asked him to say something if he sees me doing that again. I wasn't thinking of it as binging. I just thought I was hungry but I had a decent day of eating. I didn't eat a lot of junk but I didn't eat a lot of healthy things either like veggies or fruit like I used to do. 

I'll just try again today. I had a greek yogurt and cheese for breakfast. I'm eating an early lunch with my mom and we're having sub sandwiches. I don't normally get a lot of veggies on my sandwich but I think I will today. 

I wear a night guard at night to keep from grinding my teeth. Once I get through my teeth regime, I put that in and mentally I'm done eating for the rest of the evening because it's too much trouble to go through all of that over again. So I guess I should try putting that in earlier and see if that helps.

[sassenach]

It seems like maybe you should head back to the counselor (maybe a new one?) or investigate group therapy, perhaps? You’re trying to control a lot of different elements of this with rules and it seems like that’s all part of the disorder. 

(((Hugs)))

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Night Elf said:

I'll talk to DH and see if he can come up with a way for me to get a grip on this behavior.

 

2 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

Dh just told me he thought I was binging last night and I asked him why he didn't say anything to me and he said it just didn't occur to him. I asked him to say something if he sees me doing that again.

I said I wasn't going to offer advice, and I meant to stick to that. But . . . it really (really!) jumps out at me that twice you've alluded to your DH taking some responsibility for controlling your behavior.

That seems to me to be (1) unfair to your DH to expect him to control or even help control your behavior, and (2) the "why" of your feeling the necessity for him to help control your behavior may be something to explore with a counselor.

My personal experience is that this is something you have to "own" and want to/learn to control yourself.

[Night Elf]

9 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

I said I wasn't going to offer advice, and I meant to stick to that. But . . . it really (really!) jumps out at me that twice you've alluded to your DH taking some responsibility for controlling your behavior.

That seems to me to be (1) unfair to your DH to expect him to control or even help control your behavior, and (2) the "why" of your feeling the necessity for him to help control your behavior may be something to explore with a counselor.

My personal experience is that this is something you have to "own" and want to/learn to control yourself.

I just like him to call attention to my abnormal behavior. He does the same thing when he thinks I'm having a manic attack from my bipolar disorder. When I'm in the throes of it, I don't recognize what's going on. My night binging is like that. He thought it was unusual for me to eat so much at bedtime but he's not with me a lot at night during those hours. I'm in the bedroom and he's in the living room so he doesn't see how much I've been eating. Last night he was actually in the room with me and witnessed it. I just thought I was being normal but he saw it differently.

I don't ask him to control my behavior but I do like to bounce ideas off him. That's why I want to talk to him about ways to control myself. You guys have come up with some good ideas but I'm not asking y'all to control my behavior. I'm asking him to do the same thing I've asked here. Plus, when he does notice something and says something, I can generally do what I need to do to get control of myself. Like when I'm having a manic attack, I have a certain routine which helps me over the rough spot.

Hope that makes sense. He just thinks more sensible and practical than I do.

[maize]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this 😞

The only thing I have to offer is that even more than protein it is fat that helps me feel satisfied for a longer amount of time. Olive oil, butter, and coconut oil are the main fats we eat. Also nuts. I've been known to add butter to stew to make it more satisfying.

Low blood sugar seems to make anxiety sky rocket in several of my family members. I wonder if it might be worth getting a little blood sugar test kit (like folks with diabetes use) and tracking for a bit to see how different sorts of eating (foods, timing) affect your blood sugar?

[theelfqueen]

I had a really hard time opening this, posts like this set off my disordered history even though my disorder is very different from yours. (I was obsessed with fasting, as a route to supposed holiness not as a matter of weight but I seriously messed myself up, just the same). Obsessive behavior plus anxiety is my exact pattern.

I really recommend finding a new counselor or seeing your old one. Talk them through your fixation on numbers (calories, oz., etc.) Because that can be a real struggle with disordered eating. It sounds to me, from.outside your situation that this is even more of an issue than daily weigh ins or a lot of other things. It sounds obsessive to my ears. But my ears are turned for obsessive so ... 

[regentrude]

40 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I'm binging while sitting in bed reading. I get into bed at 8:00 pm and started that to get away from the kitchen. It worked for quite a while. I was content with my few crackers and skim milk snack, but it's increased to more food for a snack and then even more when I'm binging.

I would do away with the eating-in-bed-snack entirely. Move dinner to a later time like 7pm, and then no food after. I think once you start snacking, it's hard to stop, so it would be better to break that habit entirely. Bedtime snacks are a habit, not a need.

Edited November 25, 2018 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can I ask why your dh wants you to gain weight?  Were you at an unhealthy weight for your height and body type?  It just seems to me that you were at a fine eating pattern before your dh asked you to gain weight.  1700 calories is not a too-small amount for an adult woman, if I understand correctly that that was what you used to be eating. 

PS - sorry for the quote box.  It just appeared and I cannot get it to go away. 

Quote

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Jean in Newcastle

[Starfish]

Could you be eating because you're bored and not ready for sleep yet?  Is there something else you could do from the 8:00 - 9:30 time slot instead? Maybe a stroll around  the neighborhood, studying something you're interested in, or a hobby of some sort 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Starfish

[freesia]

Actually, the blood sugar idea is a good one.  One of the things that helped the most for me re: bingeing was learning I was pre-diabetic.  Cutting the carbs really, really decreased my hunger.  Having to chose other things besides carbs/sugar for actual medical reasons released me from the good/bad cycle of food.  It was freeing to say--yeah I want to binge on ice cream right now, but I can't for medical reasons, so I need to find something else or figure out if there is a reason for wanting to eat this ice cream that has nothing to do with hunger and I can deal with it.  However,  the high blood sugar really did cause me to be starving (bc of the insulin released) so taking care of that was necessary to get me to the next step.

I don't know if this plays too much into the control aspect of your disorder, but, in general, we have a rule that we don't eat in our bedrooms.  Maybe having to eat at the table would chill the mindless eating (if that's what it is).  But, that might be too much control for you.  Our rule is bc we live by the woods and have to fight mice all the time.

 

[gardenmom5]

I've also found protein much more effective for curbing hunger.  (my "not seizures" seem to show up if I'm not getting enough protein, so I'm trying to find things to have easy protein access for those times.)

a good quick and easy "snack" - is a hard boiled egg.   I've had beef jerky around for when I need a quick, dense protein. (2ds will happily snack on it himself . . . .)   1dd has those kirkland protein bars (brownie and cookie dough) they have 21grams of protein, and NO soy!  so now I carry one in my purse for emergencies.  (they actually taste decent.)

I started drinking 1/2 tsp of baking soda in water 1 - 2 times per day back in sept.  it immediately shut down my sweet cravings.  I've noticed other differences as well.   what it does is to help an acid body be more towards the neutral ph.   sugar, processed foods, etc - are very acidic, the baking soda neutralizes that.

[retiredHSmom]

Do not listen to a single person here. They do not have any training in eating disorders or recovery.

My daughter is back in treatment for her third relapse for anorexia.  Her dietician has her eating 2800 calories per day and she is still increasing her.  Due to restricting during the day, it is not at all unusual for my daughter to eat 500-1000 of that after dinner.  It is not binging.  Years of restricting really messes up your endocrine system. My daughter struggles with blood sugar regulation right now and frequently shakes uncontrollably from low blood sugar when she needs to eat (and she eats every two hours). Cutting carbs etc, as recommended above is all bad advice. 

You need a dietician and a good therapist. Both need to be experienced with eating disorders. The people that are do not take insurance.  I file for out-of-network benefits. My daughter sees her therapist twice a week and her dietician once.  It costs a lot of money but when we tried to use in-network before they really didn't know what they were doing and her we are again, in relapse.

 

[hippiemamato3]

First, I think I'd ask your DH not to put any kind of pressure on your weight whatsoever. Telling you he'd like you to gain, when struggling with an eating disorder of any kind, just puts further emphasis on food at a time when you're already struggling. He can't manage the eating disorder for you, so asking him to come up with an idea for night time seems like a bad idea. You, and a therapist, need to make a plan. 

Second, it sounds like you need to eat foods with fewer carbs. IME, carb-heavy foods like cereal simply make the body crave more. Maybe try eating fruit and protein after dinner and see if you feel more satiated. 

[gardenmom5]

5 hours ago, retiredHSmom said:

Do not listen to a single person here. They do not have any training in eating disorders or recovery.

My daughter is back in treatment for her third relapse for anorexia.  Her dietician has her eating 2800 calories per day and she is still increasing her.  Due to restricting during the day, it is not at all unusual for my daughter to eat 500-1000 of that after dinner.  It is not binging.  Years of restricting really messes up your endocrine system. My daughter struggles with blood sugar regulation right now and frequently shakes uncontrollably from low blood sugar when she needs to eat (and she eats every two hours). Cutting carbs etc, as recommended above is all bad advice. 

You need a dietician and a good therapist. Both need to be experienced with eating disorders. The people that are do not take insurance.  I file for out-of-network benefits. My daughter sees her therapist twice a week and her dietician once.  It costs a lot of money but when we tried to use in-network before they really didn't know what they were doing and her we are again, in relapse.

 

my insurance has counselors who focus on eating disorders.  however it has taken me going name by name, doing internet searches and looking them up to see their own page and what they do - NOT my insurance company's page.  it is very time intensive. . . (and can take days to go through the list). my insurance company had rec'd one for dudeling.  afatwc- she's a counselor on their plan.  that. was. all. they. cared. about.  never mind what he needed was someone who knew what the heck they were doing with tween asd/add kids.  (not someone whose focus is eating disorders.)  took days just to find a list of likely providers .. . and that was before I could even start contacting them.

[Night Elf]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

I would do away with the eating-in-bed-snack entirely. Move dinner to a later time like 7pm, and then no food after. I think once you start snacking, it's hard to stop, so it would be better to break that habit entirely. Bedtime snacks are a habit, not a need.

You're probably right. I can feel totally content and then have that snack, by habit, at 8:00 pm and then it goes down hill from there. We generally eat at 6:30 pm on the nights I work and I still find myself eating more food after my 8:00 pm snack. Good grief.

[Night Elf]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Can I ask why your dh wants you to gain weight?  Were you at an unhealthy weight for your height and body type?  It just seems to me that you were at a fine eating pattern before your dh asked you to gain weight.  1700 calories is not a too-small amount for an adult woman, if I understand correctly that that was what you used to be eating. 

PS - sorry for the quote box.  It just appeared and I cannot get it to go away. 

My weight range started at 128 and I was hovering from 127-129. DH would like me to gain up to 140 lbs. but I'm having a very difficult time getting past 132 lbs. I'm more than that right now which is why my anxiety is up about this issue. When I was severely restricting, I'd eat less than 1100 calories, when I was just maintaining I ate in the 1200 range. Once I started counseling with a counselor and a nutritionist, I slowly got up to eating 1700 daily calories. My Fitness Pal suggests 1750 and I thought I'd never get up that far. So yes, I'm eating what I consider a healthy amount WHEN I'm not binging at night which has been happening every night for at least a week. This is why I posted. I am trying to figure out how to stop eating at night. It didn't even occur to me that I was binging until someone on this thread brought it up, but it makes sense. So I think I'm going to take Regentrude's advice and cut out my bedtime snack and see if that helps some. I'll still have my treat, but I'll have it as a dessert after dinner and not eat anything more after 8:00 pm.

[Night Elf]

5 hours ago, retiredHSmom said:

Do not listen to a single person here. They do not have any training in eating disorders or recovery.

My daughter is back in treatment for her third relapse for anorexia.  Her dietician has her eating 2800 calories per day and she is still increasing her.  Due to restricting during the day, it is not at all unusual for my daughter to eat 500-1000 of that after dinner.  It is not binging.  Years of restricting really messes up your endocrine system. My daughter struggles with blood sugar regulation right now and frequently shakes uncontrollably from low blood sugar when she needs to eat (and she eats every two hours). Cutting carbs etc, as recommended above is all bad advice. 

You need a dietician and a good therapist. Both need to be experienced with eating disorders. The people that are do not take insurance.  I file for out-of-network benefits. My daughter sees her therapist twice a week and her dietician once.  It costs a lot of money but when we tried to use in-network before they really didn't know what they were doing and her we are again, in relapse.

 

I appreciate your note and I'm sorry about your dd but I think I've gotten some good advice here. I just need to sift through it and think about how I want to handle this. My psychiatrist diagnosed me with bulimia because I had a pattern of binging and restricting. Personally I think bulimia is the wrong term for me. My counselor and nutritionist call my problem disordered eating. Both of them are experienced with eating disorders. At least I know for certain my counselor is because I found her through my DH's employee assistance program, not through my insurance. I have Kaiser and they don't have many counselors. I did use a Kaiser nutritionist though so I was just accepting her saying she had worked with clients with disordered eating. 

I'll probably make an appointment with my counselor first before the nutritionist. I really didn't feel like the nutritionist was helping me beyond getting me eating more food on a daily basis. It took a few months to work my way up 500 calories. She was supportive but I really don't think everyone should eat only 3 big meals a day. I feel much better physically when I eat several smaller meals a day. I can't eat a large amount in one sitting because it leaves me feeling sick and I hate that feeling. When I first started seeing her, I wasn't increasing my daily calories because I was more concerned with when I got to eat rather than what I was eating or how much I was eating. When I went back to eating several smaller meals a day, I was able to add in calories without feeling sick.

I hope that makes sense.

[sassenach]

5 hours ago, retiredHSmom said:

Do not listen to a single person here. They do not have any training in eating disorders or recovery.

My daughter is back in treatment for her third relapse for anorexia.  Her dietician has her eating 2800 calories per day and she is still increasing her.  Due to restricting during the day, it is not at all unusual for my daughter to eat 500-1000 of that after dinner.  It is not binging.  Years of restricting really messes up your endocrine system. My daughter struggles with blood sugar regulation right now and frequently shakes uncontrollably from low blood sugar when she needs to eat (and she eats every two hours). Cutting carbs etc, as recommended above is all bad advice. 

You need a dietician and a good therapist. Both need to be experienced with eating disorders. The people that are do not take insurance.  I file for out-of-network benefits. My daughter sees her therapist twice a week and her dietician once.  It costs a lot of money but when we tried to use in-network before they really didn't know what they were doing and her we are again, in relapse.

 

 

I see a lot of well-meaning advice, but I do get the feeling that we might be venturing out into waters that we shouldn't be. Beth, I don't think you need more advice. You need a professional to help you sort through this or I'm afraid you'll just be more entangled in the disorder rather than in any real solution. (((HUGS)))

[Tanaqui]

I also agree that given your situation you need professional advice - not that of friendly amateurs. We all mean well, but I doubt any of us has the expertise and experience to give the right advice.

[Night Elf]

I decided no food in the bedroom and no food after 8:00 pm. I had my snack at the kitchen table and then went to the bedroom for the night. I also brushed my teeth and put my night guard in. It was a success. No binging last night. That's an accomplishment for me. Thanks everyone.