Abuse and school shootings. :(

[BlsdMama]

After yet ANOTHER school shooting today, it occurs to me - 

 

Really?

 

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted.

[Carol in Cal.]

So maybe the press will start saying, Wow, it's too bad those poor schoolkids weren't safely homeschooling with their families, but instead were sent out into the world to face guns, defenseless.  I mean, it would make as much sense as what they say about homeschooling usually.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Carol in Cal.

[swimmermom3]

After yet ANOTHER school shooting today, it occurs to me - 

 

Really?

 

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted.

 

This statement doesn't even make sense.

 

Public schools in other first world countries are primarily able to keep kids from shooting other kids at school because they exist in cultures with limited access to firearms.

 

This isn't an abuse issue. It isn't a mental health issue. It isn't a matter of irresponsible public schools that don't turn themselves into armed camps. It's a result of living in a society that values guns above human life. It's a result of a society that owns 101 guns per 100 people.  It's the result of a society that is so terrified of it's government and of our own neighbors that we must pack significant fire power to "protect" ourselves or our own, or so we tell ourselves. Do you want to discuss the numbers of people "protected" versus the numbers of protection guns used for domestic violence or suicide?

 

You are not really flabbergasted.

 

Lives are very cheap in this country. We tut-tut "tragic"  and "I'll pray for them," and head off to the gun show. When people really care, they do something. We don't really care. One more school shooting. One more mall shooting. One more concert or nightclub shooting. BFD.

[mamaraby]

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted.

This is a non-sequitur. Amongst discussions of regulation of homeschooling, there have been a number of suggestions for oversight including alternate agencies/supervising entities. Also, we can be both/and and not either/or. We should not require perfection in solving all possible problems in order to then be concerned about homeschooled children falling through the cracks.

 

The inability to solve shootings amongst school children should not in anyway be surprising given that American society has not solved it amongst adult.

 

What I find flabbergasting is the attitude that says that one must have a perfect solution that addresses all unforseen objections in advance and if that solution is flawed or is incapable of answering every possibility, then the answer is we do nothing. Instead, we’re just supposed to express our cathartic outrage and ignore it until it happens again.

 

Seriously, though, someone’s teen has been killed. Someone sent their kid to school and now that kid’s not going to come home. Maybe that’s the important thing to focus on here, not outrage over hypothetical homeschooler oversight.

[swimmermom3]

So maybe the press will starting, Wow, it's too bad those poor schoolkids weren't safely homeschooling with their families, but instead were sent out into the world to face guns, defenseless.  I mean, it would make as much sense as what they say about homeschooling usually.

 

Well, there is that most recent case of 13 "homeschoolers" chained to their beds and starving to death. That is sure to shift someone's viewpoint from the dangers of being in a public school.  

 

Of course home is safer. Wait! How many kids die every year in gun-related accidents? Something like 1300? Wonder how many of those accidents happen in the home? But it doesn't really matter, does it? 1300 dead children A YEAR is a small price to pay for freedom, eh?

[poppy]

The public schools do not have power to stop these shooters.  Only we, the voters, have the ability to vote in better  law makers.

It really has nothing at all to do with whether or not they'd be able to monitor to see if there are indicators a child might be in an unsafe home situation. 

 

 

 

[Happy2BaMom]

After yet ANOTHER school shooting today, it occurs to me - 

 

Really?

 

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted

 

I'm pretty flabbergasted you would use a public school shooting to bolster your offense at discussions about homeschool regulations. Not to mention the logic, as someone pointed out above, is a complete nonsequitur. 

 

Public shootings are hardly limited to schools in this country. So it's not really a public school problem. It's a cultural problem in the U.S. Lots of impulsive, crazy, angry people with ready access to lots of weapons of mass destruction (my term). And then we act surprised. Really?

 

Even looking at shootings in public schools...any gun regulations any school (or state) might try to implement to reduce these occurrences would be instantly targeted by the NRA et al. (And this country has too d*mn many automatic weapons floating around out there already anyway.) So, other than arming everyone from the desk secretary to the janitor to the teachers (and hoping they don't kill any children in any crossfire), schools have very limited options. I am curious, though, what suggestions you would offer for them? Except, of course, the suggestions must not require any further resources, since those won't be provided.

 

 

edited to add further thoughts

Edited January 23, 2018 by Happy2BaMom

[chiguirre]

The only way this will get better is to make the criminal penalties for the gun's owner commensurate with the damage their irresponsibility caused. A mentally ill teenager took their gun to school and shot 21 people. They should be looking at a life sentence without parole.

[Guinevere]

Doing something does not have to equal regulations and laws. We all need to do something. Build community, get to know people, get your hands dirty. We don't need the Gestapo. We need backyard baseball and neighborhood cookouts.

[Happy2BaMom]

Doing something does not have to equal regulations and laws. We all need to do something. Build community, get to know people, get your hands dirty. We don't need the Gestapo. We need backyard baseball and neighborhood cookouts.

 

I agree. But in terms of turning the tide in a society of 350 million people in a country of 50 states, we're talking probably 20-30 years minimum to turn that tide. Until then, I guess we all just play the daily lottery of hoping it's someone we don't know??

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

I am not quoting your words as I think that after reflecting on them a bit you may realize what a mistake they were.

[Liz CA]

I am not quoting your words as I think that after reflecting on them a bit you may realize what a mistake they were.

 

 

Why should her opinion be a mistake? It's just that, an opinion.

 

My opinion: This needs to be a group effort. Gun laws alone will not prevent violence because violence starts in somebody's mind. Like a previous poster said, it takes community coming together, supporting each other rather than isolating. This could go a long way toward general mental health of young and old.

[poppy]

So maybe the press will starting, Wow, it's too bad those poor schoolkids weren't safely homeschooling with their families, but instead were sent out into the world to face guns, defenseless.  I mean, it would make as much sense as what they say about homeschooling usually.

 

I get that you are being snarky, but the reality is, my homeschooled kids sure as heck are not safe from firearms.

[bolt.]

I agree. But in terms of turning the tide in a society of 350 million people in a country of 50 states, we're talking probably 20-30 years minimum to turn that tide. Until then, I guess we all just play the daily lottery of hoping it's someone we don't know??

Why would you hope it's someone you don't know? Is this really a situation where the ethics of, "Better you than me!" -- make any kind of sense?

[poppy]

I hadn't heard about these school shootings, and just googled. One in Texas, one in Kentucky..... two fairly gun-heavy states.  

It's terrible. I'm so sad for those kids.  

[swimmermom3]

Doing something does not have to equal regulations and laws. We all need to do something. Build community, get to know people, get your hands dirty. We don't need the Gestapo. We need backyard baseball and neighborhood cookouts.

 

I understand what you are saying, but there is an underlying cultural norm that overwhelms the ideas of community building and getting to know people. We are a terrified people. That is the only conclusion I can come to when 32% of the population says it needs an average of 3 guns per gun owner "for protection". 7.7 million Americans own 8-140 guns a piece. It must be difficult to be that terrified. We own half of the world's guns and we are 5% of the population.

 

It is so much easier to arm yourself to the teeth and pray that no one you know dies from violence than it is to work on creating a better neighborhood, state, or country.   

[Beth S]

Bringing a personal viewpoint:  The KY shooting today (at Marshall County HS) was in my close-knit small hometown. 

 

Our ds & I were setting up for the community book sale this morning, when someone burst into tears while on the phone.

We thought she was just telling a dramatic tale.  But it was real.

 

Ironically, the schools here had been closed for 8 days straight because of all the ice & snow we've had here.  First day back.

 

Sadly, last month, we just commemorated the 20th anniversary of the shooting at the highschool on the OTHER side of town.

Yes, this pushes the Turpins off the front page, but (as we've seen with the other shooting here at Heath HS in 1997) the pain is just an ongoing reality.

[poppy]

Oh, Beth, I'm so sorry to hear that.  What a terrible day.

[Happy2BaMom]

Why would you hope it's someone you don't know? Is this really a situation where the ethics of, "Better you than me!" -- make any kind of sense?

 

I think you misread my post.

 

My point is that taking the attitude of "chances are it won't be me" is exactly what the U.S. population - as a general rule/whole - has adopted. Because we either don't know what to do or we don't wish to tackle any obstacles that would really change the regularly occurring Russian Roulette situation*, so we do nothing - not one, single thing - that arguably changes or prevents this same, damn thing happening next week. Or the next week after that. Or the next week after that. And on and on and on it goes. Does that indicate anything other than an "it probably won't be me" ethic? 

 

I get the "baseball games & community Kumbaya-ing" thing. And I do agree with it (really, without the snark). But then we need at least 20 million people or whatever to get that ball rolling, and then raise up a generation in that when it will hopefully get better, and oh in the meantime, the shootings are still occurring every week or few weeks. And so I guess we're all still hanging out in the "chances are it won't be someone I know" space. It is literally insane. And the acceptance of it is is what makes me want to leave this country (which we are actually working on, at least for a time).  

 

(*as a side note, I have come to believe that more gun regulations, with so many tens of millions of automatic rifles already floating around in this country, are really probably not going to do much. Australia's regulation of automatic rifles was so successful in stopping mass shootings because many of the gun owners there readily surrendered their currently-owned automatic rifles. That will never happen in this country. When the gun is "God", and there are literally millions floating around that will never be surrendered, I don't know what you do.)

[EMS83]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  I'm sorry, Beth.

[Happy2BaMom]

I am going to bow out of this topic. It's painful and divisive and I have too much to do to hash it over and over.

 

My apologies to BlsdMama if I came off harsh, above. I think we can all agree that school shootings put everyone on edge and tend not to bring out the best in each of us. 

 

 

[Kassia]

Bringing a personal viewpoint:  The KY shooting today (at Marshall County HS) was in my close-knit small hometown. 

 

Our ds & I were setting up for the community book sale this morning, when someone burst into tears while on the phone.

We thought she was just telling a dramatic tale.  But it was real.

 

Ironically, the schools here had been closed for 8 days straight because of all the ice & snow we've had here.  First day back.

 

Sadly, last month, we just commemorated the 20th anniversary of the shooting at the highschool on the OTHER side of town.

Yes, this pushes the Turpins off the front page, but (as we've seen with the other shooting here at Heath HS in 1997) the pain is just an ongoing reality.

 

Big hugs to you, Beth.  Our deadly school shooting happened almost six years ago (my son was in the room where it happened and my kids grew up with two of the boys who died as well as the shooter) and it was/is so incredibly painful for our small semi-rural community.  Thinking of you, the victims, the families, and your community.  

Edited January 23, 2018 by Kassia

[Carol in Cal.]

After yet ANOTHER school shooting today, it occurs to me - 

 

Really?

 

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted.

IKR?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

IKR?

 

So how did the school fail again?

 

[Greta]

After yet ANOTHER school shooting today, it occurs to me - 

 

Really?

 

The public system can't keep kids from KILLING one another in schools.

 

But somehow they think they are the ones fit to regulate that my homeschooling is safe and adequate?

 

Flabbergasted.

 

 

It's the fault of the schools?  When a shooting happens in a movie theater, is that the fault of the theater owner?  When a shooting happens at a workplace, is that the fault of the employer?  Whose fault is it when it happens on the streets, like it did in Las Vegas?  

 

I blame this form of legalized bribery which we call "lobbying".  If it weren't for that, maybe, just maybe, our lawmakers would have actually carried out the will of the majority of Americans, and passed some tighter gun-control laws.  I blame the NRA, because they don't care how many innocent people have to die, they just want to make sure the gun and ammo manufacturers get to sell as MUCH of their product as possible.  And I blame us, each and every one of us, myself included, to the extent that we have tolerated and enabled this insanity.

 

I guess it would be easier to blame the schools.

[chiguirre]

Bringing a personal viewpoint:  The KY shooting today (at Marshall County HS) was in my close-knit small hometown.

:grouphug:

[SKL]

This post reminds me of the aftermath of the Newtown shooting when someone posted they were glad they prevented their kids' being harmed by homeschooling them.  Meanwhile my then-6-year-olds were sitting at b&m school.

 

There is a lot going on in this world that schools can't prevent.  A school near me has had about 6 suicides since the start of the school year.  Sometimes school buses crash (or are hijacked) and kids are killed.

 

I still think that if you compared the incidents in school vs. out of school, statistically kids are safer at school.  A lot of bad stuff happens at home, on the roads, etc.  (Not saying homeschooling isn't safe, but I agree that logic is lacking in some of the posts here.)

[ikslo]

According to some threads on Topix, the shooter in KY was a bullied kid named ********** who was caught last school year with a Hit List and had also previously brought a knife to school. Granted, this is unconfirmed info and heresay, but suggests possibly maybe the school and his parents could have done something to prevent this?

 

 

Edited to remove name of shooter.  His info is out there now. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by ikslo

[JumpyTheFrog]

There are not tens of millions of machine guns in civilian hands. I’m looking for official numbers, but here is what I’ve found so far: about 500,000. (https://www.quora.com/How-many-legally-owned-machine-guns-are-in-the-U-S-I-mean-real-full-auto-weapons-covered-under-the-NFA)

 

I’m not a gun nut or anything, but I am so tired of people confusing semi-automatic and automatic weapons. The former shoot one bullet each time you pull the trigger. They are NOT machine guns. I think the name confuses people and the media does nothing to clarify things. Likewise, according to this Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle) article, “assault rifles†refer to military weapons that civilians have been banned from owning since the 1930s. So in my estimation, anyone using the term in the media is either uninformed or outright lying to you.

 

ETA: I’m not looking for a gun control debate. I just wanted to put some facts out there because even as a person who doesn’t like guns much, I can’t stand to see the media’s lies go uncontested.

Edited January 23, 2018 by HoppyTheToad

[Guinevere]

I agree. But in terms of turning the tide in a society of 350 million people in a country of 50 states, we're talking probably 20-30 years minimum to turn that tide. Until then, I guess we all just play the daily lottery of hoping it's someone we don't know??

No, it works today. Right now. People knew the boy in KY was troubled, and no one stopped him. We probably all know people who need someone in their lives. Go be the someone.

[bolt.]

I think you misread my post.

 

My point is that taking the attitude of "chances are it won't be me" is exactly what the U.S. population - as a general rule/whole - has adopted. Because we either don't know what to do or we don't wish to tackle any obstacles that would really change the regularly occurring Russian Roulette situation*, so we do nothing - not one, single thing - that arguably changes or prevents this same, damn thing happening next week. Or the next week after that. Or the next week after that. And on and on and on it goes. Does that indicate anything other than an "it probably won't be me" ethic?

 

I get the "baseball games & community Kumbaya-ing" thing. And I do agree with it (really, without the snark). But then we need at least 20 million people or whatever to get that ball rolling, and then raise up a generation in that when it will hopefully get better, and oh in the meantime, the shootings are still occurring every week or few weeks. And so I guess we're all still hanging out in the "chances are it won't be someone I know" space. It is literally insane. And the acceptance of it is is what makes me want to leave this country (which we are actually working on, at least for a time).

 

(*as a side note, I have come to believe that more gun regulations, with so many tens of millions of automatic rifles already floating around in this country, are really probably not going to do much. Australia's regulation of automatic rifles was so successful in stopping mass shootings because many of the gun owners there readily surrendered their currently-owned automatic rifles. That will never happen in this country. When the gun is "God", and there are literally millions floating around that will never be surrendered, I don't know what you do.)

Thanks for the clarification. It makes more sense now.

[swimmermom3]

No, it works today. Right now. People knew the boy in KY was troubled, and no one stopped him. We probably all know people who need someone in their lives. Go be the someone.

 

After the 2008 recession, we knew more than one family that could not afford the medication to treat their teen's depression.  Even if you have the financial resources, counselors and treatment centers with open beds are almost non-existent in this country. Do a basic search. There is often a story of parent desperately seeking help for a child who is mentally ill and possibly violent in local and national papers. I don't know if that was the case here

 

Not everyone that commits a mass shooting/ regular shooting is mentally ill, but it is easier for us to understand what happened if we use that classification. However, other countries like Australia and Great Britain also have population that is mentally ill, but don't have the number of mass shootings.

 

There really is no way around, no excuse to make for the level of gun violence in this country, other than the sheer, overwhelming volume of guns and the ease of access. I would agree that before we can change the numbers of guns, we have to change the attitude of a certain group of gun owners.

 

I am old enough to remember cocktail waitressing at a swanky restaurant to pay for college and having old, fat men blow their cigarette smoke in my face and make their "cute" comments. At some point, our attitudes changed in much of the country and non-smokers decided smokers had a right to kill themselves, but not the rest of us in public.

 

My mom remembers the smog being so thick in our city that you could write your name on your car after work. Then we decided that maybe corporations didn't have the right to poison the rest of us for a profit. Attitudes can be changed, but it does take time.

 

Guinevere, you said above that it takes a group effort and to get out and build a community. I am more than willing to do that, but on the other side of the coin, the gun owners who can't give an inch and who throw their hands up in the air saying that no gun control legislation will work and that the only answer is arming everyone, need to get off the Gun god altar and do their part. At some point, the 68% that don't own guns will have had enough of the carnage and I don't think even the NRA will be able to turn that tide.

 

On the side, I've participated in these threads for years and remain grateful to our gun owners who have taken the time to answer my questions and to discuss what responsible gun ownership looks like and what they think are possibly reasonable solutions. 

[chiguirre]

 I am more than willing to do that, but on the other side of the coin, the gun owners who can't give an inch and who throw their hands up in the air saying that no gun control legislation will work and that the only answer is arming everyone, need to get off the Gun god altar and do their part. At some point, the 68% that don't own guns will have had enough of the carnage and I don't think even the NRA will be able to turn that tide.

 

On the side, I've participated in these threads for years and remain grateful to our gun owners who have taken the time to answer my questions and to discuss what responsible gun ownership looks like and what they think are possibly reasonable solutions. 

 

I don't think we can change the NRA's viewpoint, but I think we could shame them into adopting draconian laws for gun owners whose guns are used in crimes. I think we could even extend that to severe punishments for accidental shootings, or maybe we could argue that no shooting can be considered accidental. If you have an instrument of instant death in your possession, you're completely liable for anything that happens with it.

 

Your teen takes it to school and kills a couple of classmates? You're looking at life.

 

You shoot your neighbor in the butt while cleaning your gun? You're looking at 20 years. Kill him? Life.

 

Your 12 yo shoots themselves with your gun? 20 years. They commit suicide? Life.

 

Your 3 yo shoots your 9 yo because you forgot to put your gun away? Life.

 

Done. The punishment should fit the crime. You're irresponsible and it costs someone their life, your life's over too. The punishment for irresponsible gun ownership should be harsher than the punishment for drunk driving because gun ownership is a choice while driving is basically a necessity for most adults.

 

The NRA supports "get tough on crime" legislation, it's time to get tough on gun crime--not just the shooter, but the irresponsible owner too!

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by chiguirre

[ktgrok]

Florida does have laws that prosecute the person if their gun is used in a crime, or by a child but people still do dumb stuff cause they think it won't happen to them. 

[poppy]

Yes.  It would also help to make it a crime to not report if your firearm is stolen.

 

The Washington post reports that most firearm-related crimes happen with stolen or illegal guns, but :"More than 30 percent of the guns that ended up at crime scenes had been stolen, according to Fabio's research. But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime" and " for the majority of guns recovered (62 percent), "the place where the owner lost possession of the firearm was unknown."

 

[BlsdMama]

I do not think my words were a mistake, though I do think I should better explain.

 

I'm absolutely sick of kids getting hurt in safe places.  On a personal note, something (not NEARLY this magnitude) happened in a nearby community, public place to a group of kids, and it makes me want to vomit.

 

I'm angry. 

 

I *do* see the correlation here.

 

When there is an abuse in a family that is keeping their families at home, officials cry for more oversight of homeschoolers.  It *is* rare. What do they want?  They want the public education system to swoop in and keep the homeschooled kids safe from their own parents.

 

And my question becomes - what makes them so adept at making not only the decision of how/what oversight should look like, but to determine that the public education system is even qualified to recognize and decide the ability of a family to homeschool.

I'm angry.

 

Every scenario that hits the front page makes society call for more oversight on homeschoolers.

And yet I am not seeing that same scenario play out in the public arena.  

These public school shootings are happening again, and again, and again, and again.

I have no issue with blame the guns.  I used to.  But I really don't think a 15yo needs access to a gun unless he's going hunting with dear old Dad.

 

My issue is - obviously there is some kind of serious issue going on that teens are plotting to kill their classmates.

 

Think back to your school years.  I went to school with 58 people.  Some I got along with and some less so.  But never did it occur to me, "I wish they were dead.  I wish I could make them dead."

 

If it was once it would be a shock.  

 

 

It's 2018.

 

There have been ELEVEN school shootings.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/kentucky-school-shooting.html

 

 

 

It's not acceptable.

 

Maybe we all need to be homeschooling.  I'm serious.  Maybe we ALL need to keep our kids home, be heavily invested in their lives, know what they are doing, supervise them, keep them from being bullied, invest in their gifts, love them where they are, correct them when they're wrong.  Homeschooling is no magic bullet but it turns out that public schools are becoming downright dangerous places to be and that's without a lack of control over drug dealing.  

 

I am more than a little sick over homeschooling being the target.  Many times, I think the public school system is just grateful to have the target off their backs.  We are targeted.  We are the minority.  We are easy pickings because then people can "feel" like they are being proactive and they don't have to look at their own backyard.

[Guinevere]

Yes, 11 since Jan 1, and 50 this school year. I hear people say that it's still safe to send kids to school, it's all so random, think of all the kids that aren't shot each day, etc etc. Statistically, the odds are low of any given child being a victim, blah blah blah.

 

You know how many people have been shot at my homeschool? Zero. And I'm pretty sure I can keep our record.

[shawthorne44]

Well, there is that most recent case of 13 "homeschoolers" chained to their beds and starving to death. That is sure to shift someone's viewpoint from the dangers of being in a public school.  

 

Of course home is safer. Wait! How many kids die every year in gun-related accidents? Something like 1300? Wonder how many of those accidents happen in the home? But it doesn't really matter, does it? 1300 dead children A YEAR is a small price to pay for freedom, eh?

 

Vast majority of those 'kids' are gang members shooting each other.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, 11 since Jan 1, and 50 this school year. I hear people say that it's still safe to send kids to school, it's all so random, think of all the kids that aren't shot each day, etc etc. Statistically, the odds are low of any given child being a victim, blah blah blah.

 

You know how many people have been shot at my homeschool? Zero. And I'm pretty sure I can keep our record.

 

Do you have guns in your home?  If so, statistically your child is more likely to be shot at home than in a school.

 

If you and BlsdMama want to trot out this line of thinking, one could easily make the argument that children of gun owners would all be safer in boarding schools.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I do not think my words were a mistake, though I do think I should better explain.

 

I'm absolutely sick of kids getting hurt in safe places.  On a personal note, something (not NEARLY this magnitude) happened in a nearby community, public place to a group of kids, and it makes me want to vomit.

 

I'm angry. 

 

I *do* see the correlation here.

 

When there is an abuse in a family that is keeping their families at home, officials cry for more oversight of homeschoolers.  It *is* rare. What do they want?  They want the public education system to swoop in and keep the homeschooled kids safe from their own parents.

 

And my question becomes - what makes them so adept at making not only the decision of how/what oversight should look like, but to determine that the public education system is even qualified to recognize and decide the ability of a family to homeschool.

I'm angry.

 

Every scenario that hits the front page makes society call for more oversight on homeschoolers.

And yet I am not seeing that same scenario play out in the public arena.  

These public school shootings are happening again, and again, and again, and again.

I have no issue with blame the guns.  I used to.  But I really don't think a 15yo needs access to a gun unless he's going hunting with dear old Dad.

 

My issue is - obviously there is some kind of serious issue going on that teens are plotting to kill their classmates.

 

Think back to your school years.  I went to school with 58 people.  Some I got along with and some less so.  But never did it occur to me, "I wish they were dead.  I wish I could make them dead."

 

If it was once it would be a shock.  

 

 

It's 2018.

 

There have been ELEVEN school shootings.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/kentucky-school-shooting.html

 

 

 

It's not acceptable.

 

Maybe we all need to be homeschooling.  I'm serious.  Maybe we ALL need to keep our kids home, be heavily invested in their lives, know what they are doing, supervise them, keep them from being bullied, invest in their gifts, love them where they are, correct them when they're wrong.  Homeschooling is no magic bullet but it turns out that public schools are becoming downright dangerous places to be and that's without a lack of control over drug dealing.  

 

I am more than a little sick over homeschooling being the target.  Many times, I think the public school system is just grateful to have the target off their backs.  We are targeted.  We are the minority.  We are easy pickings because then people can "feel" like they are being proactive and they don't have to look at their own backyard.

 

Yeah, you probably should have stopped with your first post. Doubling down didn't make you look any better.

 

[poppy]

You think there are more children harmed in school shootings than by abusive parents?  That's what happens when you view the world only through the latest headlines ....

 

 

Homeschooling is no magic bullet but it turns out that public schools are becoming downright dangerous places to be and that's without a lack of control over drug dealing.

 

OK I'll engage.   There are, what,  30,000 highs schools in the United States? If they are  all horrible places full of drug dealers....... do you think all those kids would be safer without a school to go to?  What kind of homes do you think kids who deal drugs come from- safe and supportive ones? How about kids most vulnerable to drug pushers?  I'm really not sure what the plan is, here.   

[8circles]

This was posted mere hours after the school shooting.

 

Not one mention of it being "too soon".

 

It's frightening the level of gun-worship in this country. 

[shawthorne44]

I think one big step would be the use of Alternative schools for kids that need extra supervision.   

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Generalized statistics aren't really helpful to anyone.

 

Sure the fact that we own a gun in our home falls into the very general statistic you are referring to.

 

But, lets break this down a bit. We own a single gun. It is a rifle (in fact, I think it's an AR15, but I don't know for sure.) It is unloaded. And in 3 pieces. And has a trigger lock. And is kept in a locked gun safe. Which has a combination lock that only DH and I know and is not written down anywhere. And is in a corner of our bedroom that requires that the nightstand be moved (which includes DH's CPAP set up....light, but complicated to move.) Oh, and our bedroom door remains locked all day. The key to the bedroom door is inaccessible to the kids.

 

My child's likelihood of being shot is much much smaller than the child who lives in a home where a handgun is kept loaded in a drawer on the nightstand.

 

It's kind of like driving. Sure, we can say that driving somewhere is high on the list of risks. But, when a person doesn't drink and drive, doesn't text and drive, wears a seatbelt, doesn't speed, obeys all traffic laws, and generally maintains safe driving conditions, their risks of dying in a car wreck are SUBSTANTIALLY decreased. It could still happen anyway, because we can't control other people. But that doesn't mean that taking all those precautions is all for naught.

 

And sure, we could say that my 9yr old is at a higher risk than my oldest was when she was at home since there was no gun in the home when my oldest was here. But that doesn't mean that the risk to my 9yr old is substantially higher, once all the extra precautions are taken into consideration. And when you consider that my oldest spent quite a bit of time at the ILs house (from whom the above mentioned gun was inherited) and I honestly didn't think to ask about guns at that time....but my kids don't stay there now....it's possible that my oldest was MORE at risk, not less.

I don't think you are quite as gun savvy as you might think, if you'll post on the internet exactly what type of weapon you have in your home, and how and precisely where it is stored.

[UnionJack]

Yeah, you probably should have stopped with your first post. Doubling down didn't make you look any better.

 

I usually don’t step into these debates... but that was unnecessarily rude.

[mytwomonkeys]

I usually don’t step into these debates... but that was unnecessarily rude.

Totally agree. That comment, as well as, “I won’t quote you†- such unnecessary responses.

Edited January 24, 2018 by mytwomonkeys

[SKL]

Yeah, the vast majority of bad things that happen to kids happen at home, and the majority of bad actors against kids are their own family members.

 

For every kid hurt in a school shooting, there are a number of kids helped by mandated reporters and just good people who notice that they need protection, help meeting basic needs, or just an objective ear.  A couple years ago, my kids' classmate (4th grade) told them she had been involved in a sex act with a family member, my kids told the teacher, and their teacher referred the situation to authorities who could protect the child.  This is just one incident I know of because my kids were involved; I understand from teacher friends that it is not uncommon at all.  These things aren't going to be on the news because (a) privacy and (b) they aren't sensational like school shootings.

 

Do we screw it up, sure - all of it at times.  We're human.  Perfect isn't coming in our lifetimes.

[SKL]

 

Maybe we all need to be homeschooling.  I'm serious.  Maybe we ALL need to keep our kids home, be heavily invested in their lives, know what they are doing, supervise them, keep them from being bullied, invest in their gifts, love them where they are, correct them when they're wrong. 

 

 

 

This is a truly scary thought. 

 

Also a little insulting to those of us who apparently don't love our kids as much as you love yours.

[fralala]

I guess one thing that makes me enormously sad, beyond the fact that children are dying senselessly, is the fact that public schools NEED to take measures to protect children from gun violence in schools.

 

We live in a relatively safe time, in a relatively safe place, so I guess maybe I am privileged to be able to feel downright heartbroken to think about 5 and 6 year olds participating in lockdown drills at school. Every classroom in our local elementary school has a sign on the door with a list of the steps to take during a lockdown, and that saddens me, too.

 

It's our job as a society to keep kids safe. I don't want the schools to have to take extraordinary measures. I want kids to be able to feel safe at school. And I do feel like our local schools do a MUCH better job of tackling bullying and being inclusive than schools did when I was a kid.

 

I think blaming the schools is no better than blaming the parents. I can understand taking offense at outside interference into one's relationship with one's children, and fearing regulations that might criminalize non-harmful parenting choices (I am thinking, for instance, of cases of children being removed from their homes because parents photographed their cute little baby bums, or because they were familiar with technical terms for reproductive organs).

 

Anger is normal, fear is normal, but let's join hands, not point fingers. Let's look out for each other's kids. Let's not be guided by fear. No, no way should everyone be homeschooling. One must truly be a saint not to realize how horribly dangerous that could become.

[swimmermom3]

Lol.  I am absolutely not gun savvy and never claimed to be.  The truth is, if someone is specifically hunting me down on a homeschool site, and and cross referencing all my posts with other random posts to figure out exactly where I am, to try to locate this specific gun....I am already in deep crap. Cause that's a lot of work for one gun...much more work than ramming a car into the window of a gun store and making off with hundreds of dollars worth of guns.  :D  Point taken.

 

BUT.....none of that is the point.  I mean, home invasions are SO RARE that needing a gun for protection shouldn't be necessary, right?  Kids are more at risk from the actual presence of the gun in the home than they are from a home invasion, statistically speaking, right?  Aren't my kids more at risk from having this gun here, than they are from someone hunting this gun down on a homeschool website, and coming to try to take it?

 

Generally speaking, your point in bold is probably accurate.  While researching the comment about the majority of youth gun-related deaths being gang-related (still looking for that one), I came across some other statistics.

 

We tend to think of mass shootings in terms of what happened at the schools or Vegas or the church in Texas. (By the way, shouldn't churches be a safe place? Metal detectors? Armed guards?) Mass shootings are defined as 4 or more victims. Between 2009 and 2016, there were 156 total mass shootings where 4 or more victims were killed by a gun (perp not counted).  54% of those shootings involved a partner or family member.  

 

5 Statistics That Explain the Link Between Domestic Violence and Mass Shootings

We could discuss the steep price American women pay for unbridled gun ownership in the U.S. 

 

American women are 16 times more likely to die from gun violence than women in other developed countries.

 

45% of America women murdered are killed by their intimate partners (not gun-specific).

 

However, 4.5 million American women report having been threatened by an intimate partner with a gun.

 

No, I am not convinced that having every American child homeschooled would be a safer option.