C.C. kids and communion

[Xahm]

My kids are attending vbs this week at the church we've been attending. I realized last Sunday that at this church, young kids receive communion. Then I learned that on Thursday, the vbs kids will have communion. Anybody want to think through this with me? (Dh is in the middle of NG AT, so he's not here to talk to)

My family's background is in a denomination that I think errs too far on the side of making kids wait until they join the church (which is also when you can vote on the budget or hiring a pastor, which makes the timing weird). I'm not worried about my five year old because she believes as much as she is able, and well we'll talk about it beforehand, giving her permission to sit out if she wants. However, there are lots of community kids coming, from other churches or none at all. This is strange, right? If I sent my kid for a week and this came out of the blue, I'd be ticked? Or is this more common than I realize?

Edited June 19, 2017 by xahm

[AimeeM]

I am now a practicing Catholic, but grew up only "nominally" Catholic. In our faith, communion prep is a rigorous process and non-Catholics are not supposed to receive communion in a Catholic church... and Catholics are not to receive "communion" in a non-Catholic church.

Growing up I remember my parents sending me to the local protestant churches for VBS (there wasn't a super local Catholic parish) -- where we received instruction in the protestant faith, doused in games... and we received their version of communion, if I recall correctly.

 

Catholic kids do VBS in our parishes, and everyone is welcome, but there isn't a Mass, typically, so this isn't an issue.

 

However, if you send your kid to a VBS, you really should be familiar with the particular church you are sending them into. That is the responsibility of the parent sending their child -- and I don't think there's any room for parents to be ticked, frankly. If I sent my kid to a protestant church's VBS, I should have looked into the church, the denomination, etc. prior to sending them. I know some people think VBS is all fun and games... but at its core, it really is evangelization, and parents should be aware of that. VBS's are church-sponsored, and I would naturally assume the children would be, by default, involved in the church, if only for the period of time they are attending that VBS.

Edited June 19, 2017 by AimeeM

[carriede]

I would assume that VBS and church services are completely separate events. We would absolutely not attend a VBS with a communion service, and I would be ticked to find out they did one without advertising as such first.

[alisoncooks]

I've never been to a VBS that included communion.

[scoutingmom]

I would be ticked. But then, I wouldn't send a kid to VBS either.....

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[ktgrok]

Sounds like an Episcopal church. Just guessing.

 

Anyway, my Catholic parish has VBS, and has a Mass on the last day, but parents come too. Normally VBS gets out at 12:30, on the last day they do a special end of week celebration in the church at 12:00 where they sing some of the songs and such, and then there is Mass. But, it's on the schedule so everyone knows about it ahead of time, and pretty much only kids from our parish go. It's not an outreach thing like some of the protestant ones in our area. 

[Loowit]

I have never heard of a church that did communion at VBS and it would seem odd to me.  In my tradition growing up it was up the individual child with parental guidance to determine when they were ready.  Usually it was after a profession of faith and baptism.  I would not be happy to see communion at VBS because it is an outreach (at least in our church) and there would be a lot of unchurched children there that wouldn't understand the significance of communion.

[marbel]

Do all the kids at the church (where the VBS is) participate in communion, or is it up to the parents to decide when to allow it?   In my experience with churches that practice paedocommunion, it is up to the parents.

 

In any case, what do you feel comfortable with?  If your old church was too restrictive in your view, does it feel OK to you to allow your kids to participate?  

 

Since you're asking opinions, I'm pretty sure that in your position, I would have the kids sit it out unless they were already participating in communion.  I think that's a very odd thing to include in a VBS that is open to all comers.   I'd be wondering about other practices and teachings in the church, to be honest.

Edited June 19, 2017 by marbel

[Xahm]

It's actually a Methodist church, but I'm not sure if it's a Methodist thing or just this church. 

It surprises me because it seems that there'd be a theological objection to serving communion to kids who weren't prepared as well as a cultural thing to not having parents/families there for a child's first communion.

I do plan on asking more about this, and at the moment I'm leaning towards having my child skip it.

Since we're considering joining this church, it matters a bit more than it otherwise would.

[Xahm]

Do all the kids at the church (where the VBS is) participate in communion, or is it up to the parents to decide when to allow it?   In my experience with churches that practice paedocommunion, it is up to the parents to decide when to allow it.

 

In any case, what do you feel comfortable with?  If your old church was too restrictive in your view, does it feel OK to you to allow your kids to participate?  

 

Since you're asking opinions, I'm pretty sure that in your position, I would have the kids sit it out unless they were already participating.  I think that's a very odd thing to include in a VBS that is open to all comers.   I'd be wondering about other practices and teachings in the church, to be honest.

 

With my daughter, I'd feel okay with her having communion with me, after discussion, though I'd rather give her a few more years to mature in her thinking and faith.

Really, I am going to need to get more information about this from the church. It's not sitting well with me at all.

[ktgrok]

It's actually a Methodist church, but I'm not sure if it's a Methodist thing or just this church. 

It surprises me because it seems that there'd be a theological objection to serving communion to kids who weren't prepared as well as a cultural thing to not having parents/families there for a child's first communion.

I do plan on asking more about this, and at the moment I'm leaning towards having my child skip it.

Since we're considering joining this church, it matters a bit more than it otherwise would.

 

Is the VBS mostly just the children of that particular church, and therefore they expect the kids have been taking communion all along? Or an outreach type VBS, with kids from the community?

[Alessandra]

It's actually a Methodist church, but I'm not sure if it's a Methodist thing or just this church.

It surprises me because it seems that there'd be a theological objection to serving communion to kids who weren't prepared as well as a cultural thing to not having parents/families there for a child's first communion.

I do plan on asking more about this, and at the moment I'm leaning towards having my child skip it.

Since we're considering joining this church, it matters a bit more than it otherwise would.

I'm Episcopalian. Since Episcopalian have something in common with Methodists, I'll weigh in. No church that I know would expect to have young kids receive without parents knowing. What you said above is more the norm.

 

There is a way that you can go up to the altar and cross your arms in front of your chest to indicate that you want a blessing only. But most children would not have the presence of mind to do so, and some lay eucharistic ministers are clueless about this.

 

I would have a problem with a church pushing their particular brand of Eucharist on anyone, let alone a child. Can you talk to the VBS people and opt out?

[Xahm]

Is the VBS mostly just the children of that particular church, and therefore they expect the kids have been taking communion all along? Or an outreach type VBS, with kids from the community?

This is very largely kids from the community. It's a pretty huge thing.

 

I'm Episcopalian. Since Episcopalian have something in common with Methodists, I'll weigh in. No church that I know would expect to have young kids receive without parents knowing. What you said above is more the norm.

 

There is a way that you can go up to the altar and cross your arms in front of your chest to indicate that you want a blessing only. But most children would not have the presence of mind to do so, and some lay eucharistic ministers are clueless about this.

 

I would have a problem with a church pushing their particular brand of Eucharist on anyone, let alone a child. Can you talk to the VBS people and opt out?

 

I like the way the Episcopal/Anglican and Lutheran churches (in my experience) do things with children and communion.

I will be talking to the VBS people and probably at minimum will give my daughter's teacher a heads up that she will opt out. One of her friends who will be there is catholic, so I bet her mom isn't excited about this either.

 

I've sent a message to an old friend of mine who is a Methodist minister to see if he can give me an insider's perspective on this.

[Katy]

That's strange.  The Methodist church we are members of have the 3rd graders go through elaborate training that lasts the whole year, culminating in a Bible gifting ceremony welcoming them to the church, thereafter they get communion.

 

I did attend an ELCA church for a bit that was about an hour of training before they'd give 3rd graders communion.

[heartlikealion]

I'm Catholic and the VBS did not have Mass included in the schedule when I volunteered last summer. I mean, the kids are literally running around outside and playing water games... not exactly prepared to walk into the church for Mass. And the ages of the kids would be a mix of those who had received First Communion and those that had not. Lots of confusion.

 

It would not have occurred to me that some VBS have communion. I can see both points of view on this topic.

[FaithManor]

Methodist children normally go through prep - catechism - and that generally takes place around third grade. While they practice open table with adults, the accepted practice is for catechism and parent approval for a child to take communion.

 

So this is outside the norm. I was raised UMC and am still affiliated. It makes me raise my eyebrows, and I strongly encourage you not to send your child if it makes you uncomfortable. My own children did not complete catechism until 4th grade so were about ten years old when they took the first time.

 

It is really bizarre that this is a part of VBS!

[OneStepAtATime]

Methodist here (raised Presbyterian).  I don't ever recall there being communion at any of the VBS  that the kids (or I) attended.  That does seem odd.  I would definitely talk to the church for clarification.

 

[Now as for a specific religion being part of VBS in general, yes, that would be pretty common I would think.  It's kind of implied with the title: Vacation BIBLE School.  VBS is not summer day care.  Its Bible school, just with more fun and games. I have not heard of communion being included, though.]

[Xahm]

Thanks for this perspective. Very similar to what my minister friend got back to me with. It seems offering communion to young children isn't strange in the Methodist tradition, though maybe against custom in some congregations, but having it at VBS, away from parents, is unusual. He encouraged me to talk to the pastor about my concerns, and I'll be trying to do that.

 

 

Practice varies widely in the UMC due to traditions in various local churches, some going back to before the merger that formed the denomination (there are definite difference in former Methodist churches and former EUB churches). But the formal position of the denomination, as seen in the instructions for communion in the Book of Worship and the statement on sacraments in the Book of Resolutions, is that people of any age who wish to receive are welcome.

 

"All who intend to lead a Christian life, together with their children, are invited to receive the bread and cup. We have no tradition of refusing any who present themselves desiring to receive." (Book of Worship, p. 29)

 

"Because the table at which we gather belongs to the Lord, it should be open to all who respond to Christ's love, regardless of age or church membership. The Wesleyan tradition has always recognized that Holy Communion may be an occaision for the reception of converting, justifying, and sanctifying grace" (Book of Resolutions, pp 873-874 in the 1992 version.)

 

Some UMC churches continue to have an age limit, but in many as soon as a child shows interest, even by reaching out their hand as a baby, they receive. The theology on that, in short, is that if we had to wait until we understood to receive a sacrament none of us would ever be able to partake.

[MercyA]

Oh, heck, no. There is no way I would be down with that. I'm not against open communion for believers who have examined themselves before partaking, regardless of age or church membership. However, IMO, it is very inappropriate and potentially harmful to offer communion to children who may not understand its significance and who may not have parental guidance and permission.

 

This would tick me off and I would want some serious clarification.

Edited June 19, 2017 by MercyA

[mumto2]

Just a general comment..... if it's a shared communion cup some congregations have participants carry the service sheet with them as a sign that they simply wished to be blessed. Easily done.

[Carrie12345]

VBS aside, I grew up in a church with "late" first communions.  I want to say I was around 12?  But I attended lots of Catholic churches with friends before that, and simply didn't go up for communion.  In my church (pastor came around to those kneeling at the altar) the congregation was always told they could come kneel with hands crossed to their shoulders to indicate they wanted a blessing, no communion.

[Chris in VA]

Practice varies widely in the UMC due to traditions in various local churches, some going back to before the merger that formed the denomination (there are definite difference in former Methodist churches and former EUB churches). But the formal position of the denomination, as seen in the instructions for communion in the Book of Worship and the statement on sacraments in the Book of Resolutions, is that people of any age who wish to receive are welcome.

 

"All who intend to lead a Christian life, together with their children, are invited to receive the bread and cup. We have no tradition of refusing any who present themselves desiring to receive." (Book of Worship, p. 29)

 

"Because the table at which we gather belongs to the Lord, it should be open to all who respond to Christ's love, regardless of age or church membership. The Wesleyan tradition has always recognized that Holy Communion may be an occaision for the reception of converting, justifying, and sanctifying grace" (Book of Resolutions, pp 873-874 in the 1992 version.)

 

Some UMC churches continue to have an age limit, but in many as soon as a child shows interest, even by reaching out their hand as a baby, they receive. The theology on that, in short, is that if we had to wait until we understood to receive a sacrament none of us would ever be able to partake.

Does this include unbaptised children and adults? 

 

(I'm Episcopalian for the time being, and we allow anyone who is baptised, no matter what age. Just curious if baptism is a prereq in the Methodist Church.)

[PeachyDoodle]

Methodist children normally go through prep - catechism - and that generally takes place around third grade. While they practice open table with adults, the accepted practice is for catechism and parent approval for a child to take communion.

 

So this is outside the norm. I was raised UMC and am still affiliated. It makes me raise my eyebrows, and I strongly encourage you not to send your child if it makes you uncomfortable. My own children did not complete catechism until 4th grade so were about ten years old when they took the first time.

 

It is really bizarre that this is a part of VBS!

 

As someone else pointed out, this varies widely within the UMC. I was also raised Methodist, still affiliated (although with serious theological differences and probably not for much longer), and in my experience, children as young as infants and toddlers are allowed to partake. My mother raised Baptist, so growing up, she would not allow us to take communion until we were old enough to give a profession of faith (having been baptized as infants).

 

That said, NO WAY do I think a church should offer communion to kids at a community-wide VBS. There are way too many different theologies about what communion is and what it does, for one -- some parents are likely to be extremely ticked off, so it's just bad PR. But I also take seriously St. Paul's warning in 1 Corinthians 11 about the dangers of taking the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner, and I think, from a theological and spiritual perspective, that it's a TERRIBLE idea to expose children who haven't been properly prepared to holy communion.

[Alessandra]

Does this include unbaptised children and adults?

 

(I'm Episcopalian for the time being, and we allow anyone who is baptised, no matter what age. Just curious if baptism is a prereq in the Methodist Church.)

"For the time being?" No need to explain....

 

Exactly about being baptized, but, pointing out for others (as you know already, I think) that there is a continuum in the Episcopal church. Some invite only those who believe in the Real Presence. In contrast, I recall seeing the Dean of the Cathedral of St John the Divine in NYC try to push communion on the preacher that day -- a Jewish convert to Buddhism. The man declined.

[vonfirmath]

My kids are attending vbs this week at the church we've been attending. I realized last Sunday that at this church, young kids receive communion. Then I learned that on Thursday, the vbs kids will have communion. Anybody want to think through this with me? (Dh is in the middle of NG AT, so he's not here to talk to)

My family's background is in a denomination that I think errs too far on the side of making kids wait until they join the church (which is also when you can vote on the budget or hiring a pastor, which makes the timing weird). I'm not worried about my five year old because she believes as much as she is able, and well we'll talk about it beforehand, giving her permission to sit out if she wants. However, there are lots of community kids coming, from other churches or none at all. This is strange, right? If I sent my kid for a week and this came out of the blue, I'd be ticked? Or is this more common than I realize?

 

I've never been to a VBS that had communion as part of it.  That is really weird. And yes, you have a lot of kids there without their parents.  So it would be hard to be sure you had parent permission.  That is not a choice I would make.

[Calm37]

Agreeing that this is not right. This takes away all the meaning of a first communion for a family and feels like an authority grab to me. I have been in churches all my life, and it's possible this was some VBS director's brainstorm (likely even with good intentions) and that it wasn't thought through at all. Yes, get the pastor involved. I would be surprised if he was on board with this. This is definitely a doctrinal issue, so don't feel a bit petty about it!!!

[ktgrok]

I'm still wondering if this was designed just to be for the kids at that particular church? If so, the parents and kids would have already decided on when/how they do communion, at weekly services. (although....I'm realizing UMC doesn't generally do weekly communion, do they?)

 

Because our VBS is just kids from the parish, it's not a problem that they go to Mass at the end. They are expected to be going to Mass weekly anyway. And the ones that are too young for communion know to cross their arms. I saw LOTS of kids doing so ...I'm betting their leaders in their groups reminded them. 

 

But to have it in a setting with kids from outside the church...that's a bad idea. 

 

 

[Xahm]

The first day of VBS was kind of a madhouse, and there was no way for me to pull anyone aside to talk to them without something falling into chaos. I just e-mailed the director of VBS asking whether I simply misheard (which is what I hope) and if not if there's a way for me to participate with my child or have her sit out. If they are planning on having communion, I'll be urging her to inform all the parents of this to give the option of abstaining and I'll talk to the pastor as well. 

This is a huge, complex VBS with large numbers of community children participating. They have 2 nearly separate things going on with the PreK and K being rather split from the older kids. Since my child is K, she might not be part of any communion anyway, but I'd still want them to think that through.

 

[heartlikealion]

I'm still wondering if this was designed just to be for the kids at that particular church? If so, the parents and kids would have already decided on when/how they do communion, at weekly services. (although....I'm realizing UMC doesn't generally do weekly communion, do they?)

 

Because our VBS is just kids from the parish, it's not a problem that they go to Mass at the end. They are expected to be going to Mass weekly anyway. And the ones that are too young for communion know to cross their arms. I saw LOTS of kids doing so ...I'm betting their leaders in their groups reminded them. 

 

But to have it in a setting with kids from outside the church...that's a bad idea. 

 

Good question. I never asked if ours was limited to Catholics. I do know that around here the kids are not all from the same parish since not all the parishes have their own VBS. Ds and I go there quite often but are registered at a different parish which does not have anything besides Bible study and potlucks.

[Xahm]

I got a message back from the VBS director. She's meeting with the associate pastor tomorrow about how to do the communion service and will bring up my concern and then meet with me to determine what we should do. I thanked her and nicely told her that there are likely other parents who want to keep communion, especially a child's first communion, something done with family involvement. We'll see where it goes. I'm willing to have to skip that whole day, if need be.

[Guest]

I'm late piping up here.

 

I don't understand this at all. Even back in the day before I entered the Orthodox Church, i don't think I would have been happy with this. It's almost like "refreshments" or something--whereas there is at least a sobriety described in I Cor 11.

 

The church can help prepare the children--I was thankful for this in our church--but it is individual and certainly not just an Activity.

 

I raised a similar question with our pastors when our VBS planned something that was ... awkward..just to stay out of theological debating here, and the pastoral staff looked at it immediately and changed the trajectory of the VBS plans. I'm glad you are bringing it up.

[knoxinsox]

I think thats odd, and my kids LOVE Methodist VBS!!  They always have so much fun and its not super religious. LOL  Also a free dinner before. Never communion at any VBS that we've ever attended and we attend all that we can find.  Sorry to say that its free babysitting for me.  We've got 4 on the docket this summer (CoC, Baptist, Methodist, and a Baptist church that doesn't want us to know they're Baptist)  and are sad that a bunch of others were scheduled the same week. 

 

Anyway, I grew up with closed communion in a Mennonite church and then progressed thru to Calvary Chapel, and then a couple Sovereign Grace churches, all of which were open to fellow believers.

 

We are now members at a Lutheran church and the kiddos go with us to receive communion although they have not been baptized yet.  The kids get a blessing and a grape.  The service dog gets a blessing and a dog treat. For some reason the grape and the dog treat crack me up.  We've come a long way...dog treats!!  wine at church!!  LOL 

[winterbaby]

>"communion" in a non-Catholic church

 

>their version of communion

 

*sigh*

[Daria]

Does this include unbaptised children and adults? 

 

(I'm Episcopalian for the time being, and we allow anyone who is baptised, no matter what age. Just curious if baptism is a prereq in the Methodist Church.)

 

I've never been to an Episcopal church that specifies baptism as a requirement for communion.  

 

The church I grew up in, and later worked for, they always said "What follows is the Lord's supper, and as such is for all the Lord's people . . . "

 

My mom's current church has the following words on their website:

 

Who can receive communion? 

Anyone.  The altar at St Luke’s is God’s table.  The meal we share is God’s gift to us – it is for everyone.

 

I'm surprised to find out that isn't a universal teaching in the Episcopal church.

 

Not that an Episcopal church would likely have a Vacation Bible School with communion.

[Chris in VA]

I've never been to an Episcopal church that specifies baptism as a requirement for communion.  

 

The church I grew up in, and later worked for, they always said "What follows is the Lord's supper, and as such is for all the Lord's people . . . "

 

My mom's current church has the following words on their website:

 

Who can receive communion? 

Anyone.  The altar at St Luke’s is God’s table.  The meal we share is God’s gift to us – it is for everyone.

 

I'm surprised to find out that isn't a universal teaching in the Episcopal church.

 

Not that an Episcopal church would likely have a Vacation Bible School with communion.

Ah, but St. Luke's is practicing something that is not "officially" taught by the Episcopal Church--we have a lot of parishes like that.

 

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/holy-communion

[Cindy in FL.]

We practice paedo-communion, but I don't think having children take communion at VBS is appropriate. It doesn't tick me off, but I don't understand it. I don't know if I'd even want my kids going in those circumstances.

[Xahm]

I heard back, and I'm pleased. They decided to have a lesson about communion and show the kids, and let them taste, bread and juice, but they aren't going to be blessed or consecrated or party of the official service. Letters will go home the day before telling parents, and then on Sunday, when there is a special service inviting all the families and the kids will perform the songs they learned, there will be a communion service where children may participate with their families.

I don't know if they changed because of me or if others spoke up as well, but I'm glad they thought things through.