Has anyone heard what really happened on the Delta flight?

[J-rap]

I have close friends who have said they will no longer fly Delta Airlines because of an incident that recently occurred.  A young Arab gentleman called his parents in-flight, and another passenger became nervous when he heard him calling someone and speaking in Arabic.  (This is how I'm understanding it, anyway.)  Security people boarded the plane and removed the Arab passenger.

 

My friends say they will never fly Delta again because of this incident, and these are friends who I generally align with.  However, Delta flies into Arabic countries daily, and it would surprise me that they would remove a passenger simply because he was quietly speaking Arabic and unfortunately causing a few passengers to become nervous.  I hate jumping to conclusions which might escalate what really happened.  But if this is what really happened, I'd like to know that too.

 

Does anyone know?

 

 

[gaillardia]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/delta-responds-youtube-star-adam-saleh-arabic-discrimination-accusation/

 

This?

[J-rap]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/delta-responds-youtube-star-adam-saleh-arabic-discrimination-accusation/

 

This?

 

Yes, that's it.  How strange...  I don't understand how it escalated.  I imagine people speak Arabic on flights all the time!

[gaillardia]

It seems like all we need is for one uncomfortable white woman to express outrage and she gets her way.

I am actually surprised the guy and his friend weren't offered seats in the first class section. 

Now we know.

 

[Ravin]

Given the guy's reputation and history of prank videos on YouTube, I'm not sure I'd boycott and airline based on what he has to say alone.

[idnib]

Yes, that's it.  How strange...  I don't understand how it escalated.  I imagine people speak Arabic on flights all the time!

 

People speak Arabic on flights all the time, but once in a while there is a meeting of someone who is paranoid and/or uneducated and/or xenophobic and usually the Arabic speaker gets the losing end of the stick, although not always. The one that has always astounded me is the economist who was solving math equations.

[umsami]

It seems like all we need is for one uncomfortable white woman to express outrage and she gets her way.

I am actually surprised the guy and his friend weren't offered seats in the first class section. 

Now we know.

 

With this one person, I need to know more only because he's known for pranks.

 

However, there have been NUMEROUS other incidents like this.  So regardless if this one is true, this has happened...a  lot...and yes, speaking Arabic or wearing hijab is enough to get somebody kicked off.

[J-rap]

Given the guy's reputation and history of prank videos on YouTube, I'm not sure I'd boycott and airline based on what he has to say alone.

 

Hmm.. I don't know about his reputation.  This is partly why I'm curious to know more about how it played out.

[J-rap]

With this one person, I need to know more only because he's known for pranks.

 

However, there have been NUMEROUS other incidents like this.  So regardless if this one is true, this has happened...a  lot...and yes, speaking Arabic or wearing hijab is enough to get somebody kicked off.

 

On an international airlines that has flights to the Middle East on a daily basis, this continues to perplex me. 

[Lanny]

Wasn't that months ago? Wasn't that in the UK?  The Captain of an aircraft has *THE* ultimate authority and the ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. If s/he felt there might be problems, during a Trans Atlantic flight, the safest and most conservative path is to have the passenger in question removed from the aircraft.   I would not boycott Delta or any airline that I believe is doing things for safety reasons. I would boycott an airline that I believe is routinely discriminating against passengers because of their religion. I suspect that Delta has many employees and passengers who are Muslims and that there was something extremely troubling about that particular individual/incident..  

[J-rap]

Wasn't that months ago? Wasn't that in the UK?  The Captain of an aircraft has *THE* ultimate authority and the ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. If s/he felt there might be problems, during a Trans Atlantic flight, the safest and most conservative path is to have the passenger in question removed from the aircraft.   I would not boycott Delta or any airline that I believe is doing things for safety reasons. I would boycott an airline that I believe is routinely discriminating against passengers because of their religion. I suspect that Delta has many employees and passengers who are Muslims and that there was something extremely troubling about that particular individual/incident..  

 

I don't know if it was months ago.  I'm just hearing about it now.  

[redsquirrel]

I'm waiting to hear more.  A journalist, Soledad O'Brien, had a good friend on the plane and even the account from the friend wasn't completely clear.  It may...may... have been that someone "tipped off the flight attendant he was a YouTube star known for pranks" (O'Brien's words, not mine)...but it was not clear. She also said that "people on plane disputing call to mom" but I don't know who the people are that she is mentioning. Did she hear that from her friend? Or does she mean other people? 

 

So, I'm waiting to see how this plays out and am maintaining neutrality.

 

 

[FaithManor]

I maintain neutrality in the absence of a lot more facts.

 

Had the pilot warned passengers to turn their phone to airplane mode and this person was not complying? (Tha will get you put off a plane.)

 

Was it a set up for youtube?

 

Etc.

 

And to be fair to Delta, on their international flights it is not uncommon for at least one crew member to speak Arabic very well. That airline pays a lotmore salary for those that can speak arabic as well as for French as they have a huge hub at Charles De Gaulle. So it may also have been something that was said during the conversation that made a crew member concerned. I have warned my kids over and over again that when you fly there are things you do not discuss, things you do not make jokes about, words that in the right context might be perfectly innocent normally but just camnot be said when inside a flying tin can with two hundred other people and a high alert staff all of whom will have varying degrees of what makes them jumpy.

[poppy]

Man, whether or not to trust the professional prankster.

 

If he's innocent and was a victim here, this is the most real life "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scenario I've ever seen.

 

 

 

[marbel]

Man, whether or not to trust the professional prankster.

 

If he's innocent and was a victim here, this is the most real life "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scenario I've ever seen.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

After reading the article about him, I couldn't help but wonder.   "Oh, come on, really, you've got to believe me, it was real this time."     

[Lanny]

I don't know if it was months ago.  I'm just hearing about it now.  

 

I remember reading about an incident, I think that was approximately 6 to 9 months ago. I believe it was a Civil Turbojet preparing for Pushback from an airport in the UK and that it was a scheduled airline flight to the USA.  I am not positive that the airline involved was Delta.  If the Captain had any issues, with any passengers or crew members, before Pushback, that was the time to have them removed from the aircraft. The Captain is interested in a safe, uneventful flight, for the aircraft and everyone aboard. 

[redsquirrel]

I am not familiar with, well, any 'youtube stars' lol, but people who seem to be aware of who he is say that this would be a decided change in tone from his previous antics.

[MercyA]

. 

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by MercyA

[umsami]

Once again, no idea about this guy....

 

but Delta was the airline that doubted a black female physician was a physician.

 

Other incidents....

 

Women reading an art book in Arabic kicked off... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/08/the-perils-of-flying-while-muslim

 

Muslim couple using their phone and sweating....kicked off their anniversary trip flight to Paris (in article above)  Yes, Delta... also at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/07/muslim-couple-says-they-were-kicked-off-delta-flight-for-using-phone-saying-allah/?utm_term=.501d92b8302e

 

Some incidents on SouthWest....and yes speaking Arabic is enough...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_while_Muslim

 

 

American Airlines....she asked for water.... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/08/muslim-woman-kicked-off-american-airlines-flight-islamophobia

 

 

I can tell you that when I wore hijab, I was "randomly" selected for advanced screening pretty much every time I flew.  When I took it off, somehow I never was.  DH is always selected because of his Muslim name.  We actually build in time for him to be detained.  

 

 

 

 

[SproutMamaK]

I can't find the sources right now, but this story in and of itself has been disputed by many passengers on the flight. Apparently the guy was deliberately getting badgering many people around him, shouting, yelling, etc, and then when he had ticked people off enough that someone called an attendant over, he spoke a few lines in Arabic to his friend... and then claimed everything was because of what he had spoken. None of that to say that this is outside of the realm of possibility, I believe it has happened to quite a few people on varying airlines. It just doesn't seem to be what happened to this little piece of work.

 

Edited to add: couldn't find the full story, but I found this synopsis. Not the best news source, but hopefully it'll do for now, lol, I gotta go wrap presents. http://lawnewz.com/politics/delta-concludes-after-interviewing-multiple-witnesses-that-youtube-prankster-was-actually-shouting-disruptive/

Edited December 22, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[kubiac]

I feel almost certain that it was a publicity stunt. His demeanor in the film made me suspicious even before I learned he was a YouTube star known for pranks. He's an Ali G. (Sasha Baron Cohen) wannabe, IMHO.

[MomatHWTK]

Here's the NYT's article published today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/world/delta-air-lines-adam-saleh.html?smid=tw-nytimesworld&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[redsquirrel]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

 

Do you think that having dark skin or wearing a particular type of head covering or having a particular type of name or reading Arabic make someone a "suspicious passenger"?

[idnib]

We actually build in time for him to be detained.  

 

 

We do too. My worst domestic experience was in Minneapolis last year, and for abroad, Amsterdam in 1989.

[Amira]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

Speaking Arabic is in no way a suspicious activity, and that is how this started. Umsami linked to other incidents about people being inititially identifed as suspicious for speaking Arabic and there are more stories like this.

 

We *cannot* allow fear to so completely overtake us that a language spoken by hundreds of millions of people, including Muslims, Jews, and Christians, becomes suspicious in and of itself.

 

Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, Arabic has to be one of the coolest major languages in the world. Just looking words up in the dictionary is interesting.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Amira

[umsami]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

  I'm sorry you're afraid, but I think you need to seek out other media sources if you are scared of nearly 1/4th of the world's population.  Does speaking Arabic make one suspicious?   Are others allow to be bilingual, trilingual, etc. but not Arabic speakers?  (Note; Arabic comes right after English in terms of number of speakers in the world (#4 and #5)

 

Is one not allowed to do Calculus for fear one may be a terrorist?

 

Is wearing a hijab or having a beard suspicious?  

 

Should someone who is Muslim be kicked off a plane for something a non-Muslim would not be?

 

How many articles about good things that Muslims or Arabic-speaking people have you read?  Or do you believe that over 1 billion people can never do anything good?  That the roughly 20% of American physicians who are Muslim and save lives of people of all faiths and races every day are just...I don't know....secretly waiting to poison you?

 

Do you know that Muslims themselves are the best defense against such terrorist attacks but when they are unjustly targeted over and over again....they will be less likely to help.  The Underwear bomber's father contacted the US Embassy twice on his son.  The chicken shack bomber's Dad, too, contacted the FBI over his son.  A mosque member contacted the FBI over the Pulse nightclub bomber.  And these are just some of the more publicized incidents.   

 

Do you know the odds of being harmed in a terrorist attack?  "The chances of being killed in a terrorist attack are about 1 in 20 million. A person is as likely to be killed by his or her own furniture, and more likely to die in a car accident, drown in a bathtub, or in a building fire than from a terrorist attack."  

 

Be afraid of domestic violence--as 1 in four women will experience it.  We lose between 4-5 women each and every day in the US to intimate partner homicide.  

 

Be afraid of child abuse.  We lose between 4-5 children every day to child abuse and neglect, although many say those figures are under-reported.

 

Are you as afraid of young white men?  Because they are far more likely to do mass shootings.  Heck, be afraid of guns in general.  "For every one American killed by an act of terror in the United States or abroad in 2014, more than 1,049 died because of guns."  We now lose roughly 117 people each and every day to suicide.  Easy access to guns make suicide attempts more lethal.  

 

The men who participated in 9/11 were clean shaven.  They did things religious Muslims would not like drink, have girlfriends, and wear silk and gold.  So would you be more afraid of a clean shaven man with a drink in his hand or a guy with a beard?  Can you even tell what a Muslim looks like?  Can you tell an Arab or Pakistani guy, from say a Latino guy?  Do you even know that most Muslims aren't Arab?   Would you know that I or my kids were Muslim as we're blonde and blue-eyed?    Maybe you should be afraid of all the blue eyed, blonde folks you see.  They might be secret Muslims out to get you!

Edited December 22, 2016 by umsami

[gaillardia]

Wasn't that months ago? Wasn't that in the UK?  The Captain of an aircraft has *THE* ultimate authority and the ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. If s/he felt there might be problems, during a Trans Atlantic flight, the safest and most conservative path is to have the passenger in question removed from the aircraft.   I would not boycott Delta or any airline that I believe is doing things for safety reasons. I would boycott an airline that I believe is routinely discriminating against passengers because of their religion. I suspect that Delta has many employees and passengers who are Muslims and that there was something extremely troubling about that particular individual/incident..  

I get the impression it was today.

[kubiac]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

 

DEFINE SUSPICIOUS.

 

MEANWHILE: Over two million people have died in traffic accidents in the US since you were a young girl. Do you or anyone you know or do any news organizations you follow work diligently to make sure there is a "Zero Traffic Fatality" initiative underway in your town? 

 

About 500,000 have died by firearms in the US since you were a young girl. Do you advocate for stricter gun control in your community? Do you discourage family members from owning and operating firearms?

 

 

If you don't, it's because these are familiar deaths that you have been socialized to accept and are told are normal and correct because the structure of American culture is righteous and so these deaths are just the natural consequence/cost of doing the right things.

 

Deaths that are a consequence of a foreign, unfamiliar culture and lifestyle and religion stand out in your memory and frighten you particularly because they seem so unusual. Everything affiliated with that death morphs into a cohesive but shadowy villain figure, and everyone associated with the causes of those deaths is assumed to be part and parcel of a dangerous syndicate, when in fact the deaths are statistically quite rare and unrepresentative.

 

The Islamic world stretches from Morocco to Indonesia. There are 1.5 billion (with a B) believers of that religion. Every violent Islamofascist is a Muslim, but not every Muslim (or Arab, or brown person) is an violent Islamofascist. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kubiac

[TheReader]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

I am sorry that in 54 years of news stories about terrorists blowing up planes, you have heard the word Muslim instead and thus wrongly generalize, like the antagonists in these articles/incidents, that Muslim = suspicious, or that Arabic = suspicious.

 

As a frequent traveler, I don't find any reassurance in airline practices that are based on false generalities instead of detecting actual problems; this sort of targeting only slows things down, makes the other passengers irritated and antsy, and IMO possibly even contributes to exactly the sorts of incidents being talked about, as passengers watch who gets the random extra screening....if it is always someone of a particular "look" then we get conditioned to believe and think that, well, that "look" must therefore be suspicious. It really does more harm than good.

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

 

I wonder how you would have felt if Irish people had been similarly treated as suspicious in the UK in the 1970s,1980s and 1990s?  

 

ETA: Some of us grew up under the threat of terrorism.  I am almost the same age as you and there were terrorist attacks on the News every day.  Some events that you might not have heard of: the bombing on the market street of Omagh, two attacks on the Houses of Parliament, the bombing of the conference of the ruling Conservative Party, the killing of a member of the royal family, mortars fired at the Prime Minister's residence, and the killing of many, many ordinary people.  So how would you have felt if all Irish people had all been treated as suspicious as you suggest that Muslims should be?  The following list is for Mainland GB only.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

Edited December 22, 2016 by Laura Corin

[gardenmom5]

the guy was arrested in 2014 for a hoax 'muslim discrimination'. he has a reputation of being "an internet prankster" - doing things to get a reaction he then posts to youtube.  (eta: this is based on the videos has he posted to youtube.)   he's been accused of making fake accusations in austrailia just last week.  20 passengers on the plane - have said what he says happened, -isn't what happened.   his video does not show what prompted the removal.  given his record - he's not credible.  whether he's telling the truth this time or not - he has a record of faking reports. 

 

the muslim girl who last month accused three trump supporters of harassing her - last week was charged with filing a false report.  (based on security cam footage.)  apparently - she was out drinking with her christian boyfriend and was afraid of her parents anger.  they shaved her head.

 

there are enough real 'hate crimes' - all these people do is stir things up.  and NOT in a good way.  they also make people with legitimate complaints/incidents/concerns . . . less likely to be believed.

Edited December 22, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Guest]

Fifiruth's post was inappropriate, but the responses have been thorough and enlightening, so I've chosen to let it remain. It would be a good idea to move on now, however. 

[Ravin]

I'm sorry to hear that your innocent family feels harassed, but I'm not sorry that airlines are being tough on suspicious passengers. I'm 54 years old, and I have been seeing news stories about Muslims blowing up planes since I was a young girl, and it has only escalated in scale and number since then, with no end in sight.

 

Other passengers harboring irrational fears because of news stories seen on TV should not make merely speaking or reading a language spoken by 230 million people grounds for being thrown off a plane. That's not reasonable suspicion, that's irrational, paranoid, and discriminatory.

[katilac]

I will be very surprised if his version is true. He is known not only for pranks, but for staging and filming fake videos (that he then posts with no indication that they are fake). 

 

In the article, you can read about how he filmed a fake video meant to show police doing racial profiling (his words). He put up the video as though it were real, not staged. Even after another site proved it fake, he left it up on his channel with no indication of that, knowing most people would not see the related article. 

 

Other reasons I am suspicious: He makes a living via media, but says himself that the disturbance went on for about seven minutes before he started filming; why? What did he do for those seven minutes? When he does start filming, he yells at passengers that they are racist; this seems like exposition. 

 

It could be true. His prior false accusations and the fact that he makes a living off of publicity make me doubt it strongly. I hope it can be proven one way or the other, but it probably can't unless someone else was filming. Discriminatory acts are a terrible thing. False reporting of discriminatory acts are also terrible, because they cause people to doubt the real thing. 

[maize]

I agree that a) we have a real problem with profiling of Muslim folks and b) this particular case is not clear cut because of the background of the apparent victim. If this was a set-up/hoax/attempt to manipulate the system on his part he's done no-one any favors; if it isn't he's suffering from a boy-who-cried-wolf scenario where the trustworthiness of his account is questionable due to past history.

[TranquilMind]

I have close friends who have said they will no longer fly Delta Airlines because of an incident that recently occurred.  A young Arab gentleman called his parents in-flight, and another passenger became nervous when he heard him calling someone and speaking in Arabic.  (This is how I'm understanding it, anyway.)  Security people boarded the plane and removed the Arab passenger.

 

My friends say they will never fly Delta again because of this incident, and these are friends who I generally align with.  However, Delta flies into Arabic countries daily, and it would surprise me that they would remove a passenger simply because he was quietly speaking Arabic and unfortunately causing a few passengers to become nervous.  I hate jumping to conclusions which might escalate what really happened.  But if this is what really happened, I'd like to know that too.

 

Does anyone know?

I had not heard this.  But Delta has terrible reviews anyway, and less seat space, as I recall from last time I looked it up.  We never fly Delta.  Their planes are often not on time either. 

[debinindy]

So now it would seem that not only do we need to be on alert for fake news but also fake news makers.

[gardenmom5]

So now it would seem that not only do we need to be on alert for fake news but also fake news makers.

 

fake news makers are hardly new.

 

re: dateline/nbc has been airing fake stories for at least 25 years.  they do it for ratings.

e.g.  side fuel tanks exploding

creative tape edits are an ongoing problem today.

eta: they put an *incendiary device* under the truck.  they wanted it to explode.

Edited December 22, 2016 by gardenmom5

[kroe1]

It is a shame someone has deleted the Fifiruth post. Her political incorrectness brings out an important area to discuss, although off topic. She mentioned basically, that in her lifetime many hijackings were by Muslims so she is thankful airlines give no leeway to suspicious characters. I did a quick Google of airline highjackings. Before the 1980's, highjackings were Done by a myriad of nationalities and ethnicities. But, after the 1980's, sure enough, most highjackings that made it to American news were people of Arab descent. Whether the news reported all non-Arab highjackings, I do not know.

 

So the question is, when a particular group of people, no matter how large the group is, does the most crime, no matter how small that group of criminals is, is it OK to protect oneself or even be afraid of that group when one is in a position where the crime could happen. Perhaps one could call it racial profiling if the government is involved, but for the individual would it not be called carefulness based on intuition? Does political correctness trump our internal drive to stay alive?

 

I would love to hear ideas on this as someone on another thread said she was suspicious of another homeschool mom based on her intuition. Should she now be afraid of all homeschool moms? What about letting our daughters spend the night at a friend's house when the parents do not seem completely right? Is it OK to use intuition then? We have really not given the family a fair shot in that case.

[maize]

It is a shame someone has deleted the Fifiruth post. Her political incorrectness brings out an important area to discuss, although off topic. She mentioned basically, that in her lifetime many hijackings were by Muslims so she is thankful airlines give no leeway to suspicious characters. I did a quick Google of airline highjackings. Before the 1980's, highjackings were Done by a myriad of nationalities and ethnicities. But, after the 1980's, sure enough, most highjackings that made it to American news were people of Arab descent. Whether the news reported all non-Arab highjackings, I do not know.

 

So the question is, when a particular group of people, no matter how large the group is, does the most crime, no matter how small that group of criminals is, is it OK to protect oneself or even be afraid of that group when one is in a position where the crime could happen. Perhaps one could call it racial profiling if the government is involved, but for the individual would it not be called carefulness based on intuition? Does political correctness trump our internal drive to stay alive?

 

I would love to hear ideas on this as someone on another thread said she was suspicious of another homeschool mom based on her intuition. Should she now be afraid of all homeschool moms? What about letting our daughters spend the night at a friend's house when the parents do not seem completely right? Is it OK to use intuition then? We have really not given the family a fair shot in that case.

Wikipedia tells me there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world.

 

There are a tiny handful of terrorists who have blown up or crashed planes.

 

So, we're looking at 0.0000001% Or so of Muslims who might commit such crimes?

 

That definitely does not make me fear them as a group. I'm pretty sure the percentage of the general population who commit murder is higher than that.

 

We can and should be watching for terrorists; that is not the same as needing to watch out for danger from Muslims.

Edited December 23, 2016 by maize

[Lanny]

Apparently that was a HOAX.  http://video.foxnews.com/v/5258939425001/?#sp=show-clips

[TheReader]

Intuition should be trusted, yes. But fearing one people group (be that race based, gender based, religion based, etc...) simply because some members of that group have been well known criminals/terrorists is not okay, and should not be disguised as intuition just to make it sound okay.

 

It is intuition if you meet a person, alarm bells ring in your head as you observe this person interact in a non-scary situation (ex: you meet someone in the grocery store, and your creep-o-meter goes off), and you then decide to avoid that person or not have interactions with him.

 

It isn't really intuition if you are in a situation that makes you fearful (flying), and see someone of the people group you fear (in this case, a Muslim-looking person), and so your already heightened sense of fear "connects the dots" based on the news stories on which you base that fear, and then tells you "hey, this guy could be a terrorist...." That is a conditioned fear response, not intuition, and shouldn't be confused as same.

 

It's the difference between, just as you said, one person meets a particular homeschool mom that creeps her out/sends her intuition warning bells into overdrive. Does she then fear ALL homeschool moms? No, that would be ridiculous. Or, a person meets a particular young man, and gets a niggling feeling not to leave her kids alone with him.....okay, fine. But then she decides to be safe, she won't leave her kids alone with ANY male person, ever. Overkill, and yes, offensive.

 

Anytime a generality is made, it stops being intuition. And any time the "intuition" comes in an already fear heightened environment, it is a little suspect, IMO. That is more likely a means of trying to find an aspect of the situation you can control, and changing it. On a dark street, you would cross to the other side, make eye contact, make your keys or flashlight visible as a weapon of self defense, etc. Sitting in your car, you would lock the doors, or honk the horn. On an airplane....you can't escape the danger, so when your brain connects the dots to identify the supposed source of fear (the one person on the plane who fits the image of the past terrorist), you instead interpret his actions as scary, dangerous, threatening, and convince the flight attendants of the same. It would be better to recognize in yourself that it is a fear response, not intuition in that instance, and remind yourself of the irrationality of such a thought process/generalization.

[FaithManor]

I would feel safer if more resources were put to ending texting and driving - which nearly killed ds and I and will in the future kill far more people than plane hijackings. I do not believe I am safer with racial/ethnic profiling nor am happy about the damage this does to our national psyche/culture.

[kroe1]

I still cannot get Fifiruth's post out of my mind. I remember when DD was a toddler and saw Snow White for the first time. The child was so traumatized that she would not eat red apples until she was 15 years old. She had no problem with green apples. We all know her chance of eating a poisonous red apple from Kroger was nil. Yet, her fear remained.

 

I still, to this day, will not get in the ocean past my ankles because of the movie "Jaws".

 

Events create fear. There is no amount of lambasting from the politically correct that will wipe away irrational fears. There has to be another way to handle the fear, right? Calling someone inappropriate, I would guess, only strangthens the fear. Saying the fear is unworthy because other things are more worthy of fear, likewise does nothing. Perhaps those with behavioral therapy experiences would have ideas on how best to handle fear like what Fifiruth alluded to. I doubt she is the only one ever in the history of mankind who wants airlines to be extra cautious. I suspect she is in the majority.

 

In regards to the Muslim Youtuber who lied, he most likely strengthened the fear as well. Whether a fear is irrational or not does not change the fact that it is real and affects many, not just the ones with the fear. I would love to hear positive ways to help those of us with irrational fears. Perhaps, then, I would be able to get back in the ocean.

[Jane in NC]

Minnie, I am having trouble understanding your logic. You have a fear of the ocean whereas I do not. Does this imply that there should be a registry for those of us who choose to swim in the ocean in order to acknowledge your fear?

 

I acknowledge that we all have comfort zones but feel that it is absurd and immoral to impose restrictions on the movements of some in order to help allay the fears of a few.

 

You label this "political correctness". Suppose I had an irrational fear of Minnie Mouse. Suppose you sat next to me on a plane wearing your Minnie sweatshirt. Do I have the right to have you removed from the plane because of your love of a rodent? What does political correctness even mean here?

[maize]

I still cannot get Fifiruth's post out of my mind. I remember when DD was a toddler and saw Snow White for the first time. The child was so traumatized that she would not eat red apples until she was 15 years old. She had no problem with green apples. We all know her chance of eating a poisonous red apple from Kroger was nil. Yet, her fear remained.

 

I still, to this day, will not get in the ocean past my ankles because of the movie "Jaws".

 

Events create fear. There is no amount of lambasting from the politically correct that will wipe away irrational fears. There has to be another way to handle the fear, right? Calling someone inappropriate, I would guess, only strangthens the fear. Saying the fear is unworthy because other things are more worthy of fear, likewise does nothing. Perhaps those with behavioral therapy experiences would have ideas on how best to handle fear like what Fifiruth alluded to. I doubt she is the only one ever in the history of mankind who wants airlines to be extra cautious. I suspect she is in the majority.

 

In regards to the Muslim Youtuber who lied, he most likely strengthened the fear as well. Whether a fear is irrational or not does not change the fact that it is real and affects many, not just the ones with the fear. I would love to hear positive ways to help those of us with irrational fears. Perhaps, then, I would be able to get back in the ocean.

You should work with a qualified therapist to overcome your ocean phobia. If a person has an irrational fear of flying or of people dressed in certain types of clothes or speaking a certain language they should work with a therapist to overcome those issues.

 

In no case should one person's phobia be allowed to limit the freedoms of others. This is their issue, not the problem of the person or thing they fear.

 

Political correctness has nothing to do with any of this.

Edited December 24, 2016 by maize

[Guest]

I still cannot get Fifiruth's post out of my mind. I remember when DD was a toddler and saw Snow White for the first time. The child was so traumatized that she would not eat red apples until she was 15 years old. She had no problem with green apples. We all know her chance of eating a poisonous red apple from Kroger was nil. Yet, her fear remained.

 

I still, to this day, will not get in the ocean past my ankles because of the movie "Jaws".

 

Events create fear. There is no amount of lambasting from the politically correct that will wipe away irrational fears. There has to be another way to handle the fear, right? Calling someone inappropriate, I would guess, only strangthens the fear. Saying the fear is unworthy because other things are more worthy of fear, likewise does nothing. Perhaps those with behavioral therapy experiences would have ideas on how best to handle fear like what Fifiruth alluded to. I doubt she is the only one ever in the history of mankind who wants airlines to be extra cautious. I suspect she is in the majority.

 

In regards to the Muslim Youtuber who lied, he most likely strengthened the fear as well. Whether a fear is irrational or not does not change the fact that it is real and affects many, not just the ones with the fear. I would love to hear positive ways to help those of us with irrational fears. Perhaps, then, I would be able to get back in the ocean.

 

I agree with you actually.

 

The reference I always make is: why WOULDN'T Ma Ingalls (LHOTP) be afraid of Indians? She was schlepped out to Indian territory, with no control in her own life, and if a fight is, or feels, imminent, you're going to back your own family's side.

 

However, Maize is correct. Ma's singular fear around the Native Americans of her time had nothing to do with the morally acceptable relationships between Settlers and Natives in the broader sense.

 

Snow White is not a good excuse for a blanket condemnation of all red apples. Imagine you'd demanded red apples be removed from Kroger because your daughter was afraid of them, and you'll have a better idea how ridiculous these things sound to some of our ears....and more so, because humans>fruit, almost all the time :laugh:

 

I understand and sympathize with that poster's FEAR. But the remedy she defends for it is unconscionable.

 

I also can't believe these things keep popping up when we have, as someone pointed out upthread, plagues of abuse and violence in this country, taking out women and children left and right. People die DAILY at the hands of husbands, boyfriends, fathers, mothers. Actually I think I referenced that in the recent thread about homeschool regulations resulting from unusual and sensational news stories, too. *I* don't want to bear the weigh of someone else's sins.....therefore, the golden rule is brought to bear.

[Alicia64]

Given the guy's reputation and history of prank videos on YouTube, I'm not sure I'd boycott and airline based on what he has to say alone.

 

Yeah, there are way too many false "awful" things happening that never really happened. Like the Muslim teen in NY who told the police that guys told her "go home terrorist" and "take that rag off your head."

 

Turns out she made the whole thing up.

 

Alley